23/09/2012 Sunday Politics East


23/09/2012

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Here in the East, a former Home Secretary hits out at the new

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police commissioner role. And the Liberal Democrat leader tells us

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2006 seconds

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he's open-minded over development Hello. I'm Etholle George. Welcome

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back to the new series of Sunday Politics East. We'll be at this new

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time every week. Coming up. Former Home Secretary Charles Clarke calls

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for the forthcoming Police and Crime Commissioner elections to be

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scrapped. I think the gunmen should call it off I this stage. I think

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it is an accent that is going to happen -- per government. But first,

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let's meet our guests for this week, Brenda Arthur, Labour leader of

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Norwich City Council, and Peter Aldous, the Conservative MP for

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Waveney. And joining us from the Liberal Democrat party conference

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in Brighton, is newly appointed Health Minister and North Norfolk

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MP, Norman Lamb. Starting with you, Mr Lamb, a word about your party

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leader's apology for signing a pledge not to increase tuition fees

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that was subsequently broken. This is what he told us. I am sure there

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will be some people who will never moved on and never accept that it

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is a sincere apology for a sincere mistake. But I think many we double

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people will accept that in politics, as well as in life, it is sometimes

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right to put your hand up when you have made a mistake but also hold

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your head up high for the good things we are doing. Did you know

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he was going to make this apology? Yes, he briefed the parliamentary

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party a few days before doing it so we were all aware of it and nothing

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will supported him. Is it a good idea to bring it up again at this

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time? Will thus be an ally lives make mistakes. When that happens, I

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think it is best to accept it, to be open and honest about it, to say

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that you have messed up. And to draw attention also to the fact

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that there are unlawful lot of things we are doing in government

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that we committed to in our manifesto, particularly reducing

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the tax burden on middle and low income families, and taking

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millions of people out of tax at the low income scale. That is

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happening because of the Liberal Democrats in government. We made

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mistakes, and we accept that. On student finance, all parties have a

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very chequered record full stop Brenda Arthur, there is no merit in

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acknowledging a mistake. Absolutely, but I think Nick Clegg should also

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be apologising back the other you turned he is making. They have

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overseen an increase in taxes in terms of VAT, the granny tax.

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Should not Labour apologise for leaving the country in a terrible

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economic state? This is a myth that is being perpetuated. Hour national

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deficit and debt was lower than we took on in 1997 and lower than

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other countries until the crisis, when Lehman Brothers crashed.

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Aldous, and students have said it is not making the pledge, but

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breaking a pledge that he should apologise for. The rise in fees has

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led to a 14 % fall in student numbers. I think he was right to

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make that apology. The Liberal Democrats set out their pledge,

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perhaps believing they were going to be in government on their own.

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That was never likely to be happen. It was always going to be with one

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of the two main parties. Both of those parties were committed to the

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proposals of Lord Brown with regard to higher education. More from Nick

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Clegg on the future for our airports in a moment, but first to

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the attack on the role of Police and Crime Commissioners by former

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Home Secretary and Norwich South MP, Charles Clarke. Elections for the

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heads of our eight police forces, who will have the power to hire and

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fire Chief Constables, will be taking place in just seven weeks

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time. The Home Office insists the commissioners will hold forces to

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account and restore trust, but according to Mr Clarke, they could

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do untold damage and should be scrapped. Here's our home affairs

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correspondent, Sally Chidzoy. Cash-strapped police forces are

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hard to stress to work the front line. In Essex, this crack down on

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anti-social behaviour would probably not have gone ahead this

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week had it not been for funding handout from the Home Office.

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Police are facing a dramatic upheaval. They will soon be run by

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all powerful elected to Police and Crime Commissioners. The plan will

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fall at the first hurdle, once a former MP for the area he believes

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it will be a disaster. I think it is an accent that is certain to

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happen. It will learn to tensions and demoralisation and departure of

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senior police officers. Theresa May could make the decision to call it

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off and she should. The main politician who back this, Nick

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Herbert, was either resigned or sack from the government. They

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should wash their hands of it and start again. But the government has

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no plans to do that. Powers include hiring and firing the Chief

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Constable, producing the police and crime plan, setting force budgets

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and engaging with the public. On this estate in Chelmsford, people

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want to see more police on the street. Crime, drugs. There is lots

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of drugs around here. But the police have not got the resources.

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Would you be voting for the police and crime Commissioner? Haven't

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heard of it, to be honest with you. What is it to the people in

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Chelmsford? Around here, people are unaware of the new plan. Have you

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heard of a police commissioner around here? Know. Around the

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region, people preparing for elections in November. Potentially,

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the person winning this election will have the largest mandate of

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any person in Essex. They will be in charge of a very large police

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force and a budget I've over �280 million. It is a very important

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role and I think once the publicity comes out after the nominations

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opened in October, then I think people will start to identify with

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the role and see that it is an important job. The government says

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the commissioners will not manage the forces that they Govan and that

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operational decisions will be left to the chief constable. But the

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guidance is and clear and critics save there is the potential for

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conflict between the commissioner and the chief constable. If you get

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elected politicians coming in on issues, back crates the crisis of

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command and control, as the Chief Constable does not know how to

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deploy forces in the most effective way. The Home Office insists that

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police and crime commissioners cannot operate against the law,

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that they will work with their forces to cut crime, give the

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public and voice and hold forces to account.

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Norman Lamb, your party says that they are not backing the role, but

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local parties can fight these elections if they want to. That is

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a strange Fudge, isn't it? I think it is on the record than we did not

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see this as a priority. But just as we secured cutting tax as part of

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the coalition agreement, this was something that the Conservatives

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wanted and we went along with it, we have accepted it as part of the

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coalition agreement. I would not want to see a party politicisation

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of the police force, but I think there is a case for much greater

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and local accountability of what the police do. In principle, there

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is a good case for this. I do not agree there for with what Charles

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Clarke has said. Brenda Arthur, Labour does not approve of the role

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either, but is backing the election. Isn't that hypocritical? I do not

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think it is. I support the view of Charles Clarke and we should

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scrappage and put the funding of it towards the police. But we have the

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situation that we are in, then we want to make sure that we have

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Labour candidates there who will deliver our values and will make

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sure communities are listened to, that local police forces are not

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privatised. Peter Aldous, what about this cost, �125 million? Your

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party has decided to spend it during the recession. It is costing

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some two �5 million to Knowsley put on the election, but that is not

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coming out of the police funds. Over the years, the police have

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become more and more centralised. Accountability has become more

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invisible, and this is about improving local accountability.

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Your average council tax bill is made up of a council element, a

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district council element and also the police precept. The other

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bodies you can hold to account. who is going to hold the police and

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crime Commissioner to account? too many, the electorate will,

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every four cures. There is also a police and crime panel which will

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oversee and provide those necessary checks on the commissioner. What

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this is actually about his issues like crime and anti-social

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behaviour, reconnecting them to the public. Norman Lamb, what back some

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of those points raised by Charles Clarke, you cannot override the law

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and the potential for conflict is enormous? There is the potential

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for conflict but I think that can be managed. I think this essential

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point that Peter has made that you can hold other and local

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organisations who received our council tax money to account, but

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you cannot hold the police to account. There is a case for giving

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the police that local accountability. Very briefly, do

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you think that introducing politics into policing is a good idea?

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not a great fan of the party politicisation of police

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commissioners. But I think the idea of fun accountability to the local

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community, the party has said that independent candidates standing is

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a good thing and weather are not independent candidates, then the

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party will put forward candidates. I'd think it is absolutely wrong.

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The accountability was there through the Police Authority, which

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was made up from people across the whole area. There are very clear

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checks and balances. The commissioner will have to sign a

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pledge of impartiality and the police and crime panel will provide

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a further cheque to sure there is not over politicisation.

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Now, the Liberal Democrat Conference is under way in Brighton

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and today they debate aviation policy. Party leader Nick Clegg

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spoke to Andrew Sinclair earlier this week, when he restated the

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Liberal Democrat opposition to a third runway at Heathrow, but in

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what appears to be a shift in policy, he does not rule out more

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development at Stansted in Essex. I have heard so many politicians

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somehow pretending they are aviation experts. I am not an

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aviation expert. One moment someone says we should we build Stansted,

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then they say build an airport in the history, then they say builder

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up airport in Birmingham. Now I think it is important we say to

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independent experts, report to ask. So it is possible any work then?

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own view is that the one option that does not stand up to any

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scrutiny at talk is the idea of an extra runway in Heathrow. From an

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environmental perspective that his bat. They will be filled up within

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years and you'd have to build another one. But I think you need

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to be open-minded and driven by the evidence. The people are they to

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beg for due again in the east, what do you stand for? You will have

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compromises. There were numerous manifesto commitments made by the

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Conservatives which they have not delivered. Bulwark in the point

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too? I can point to the four things we put on the front of on manifesto.

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More money for the people premium, so that all schools and all

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children get the best education they deserve. Their commitment to

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raise the point which you stop paying income tax to �10,000. A

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commitment to sort out the banks and rescue the economy after the

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mistakes of Labour. And fourth, pushing for political reform after

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the expenses scandal. All those four things, which we campaigned on

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as our key commitments, or four of them we have stuck to. Norman Lamb,

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your manifesto about cancelling plans for a fourth runway at

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Heathrow and any other expansion in the south-east, so what has

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changed? As Nick said, I think it makes sense to look at the evidence

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and have an independent process. What we all recognise is that if we

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are to rebalance our economy, over the last decade it became

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completely dependent on consumer debt and the public sector. Part of

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the rebalancing is building export markets. If we are to compete in a

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global economy we have to have the airport capacity in able to be able

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to reach those new markets. Looking at the evidence on an independent

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basis does surely make sense. We will seek to apply that evidence in

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government. What about the future of Stansted? Should have become the

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country's future heart airport? Rather as Mick said, I am not an

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aviation expert, I do not know ultimately what the right outcome

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should be on the basis of evidence. We should look at that evidence and

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not reach premature judgments about what the right way forward is for

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increasing capacity to ensure that we can reach those new export

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markets whilst also being absolutely cognisant of the

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environmental impact of aviation. That has driven up position on

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Heathrow, in particular the impact on the built-up area in west London.

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Let us talk more about General Liberal Democrats policies. Nick

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Clegg and listed some of the achievements made, but you have not

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have the credit for them with the public, have you? I think it is

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tough in government. This is the toughest period to be in government

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in any period since the second world war. But you try to do what

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is right for the country. You did the right thing. I think political

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stability at a time of incredible economic danger and turbulence is,

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for me, a priceless commodity. That is what Nick Clegg and the Liberal

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Democrats are providing. On top of that, we can achieve some real

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Liberal Democrat objectives. I mention that we are taking the

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lowest paid out of income tax and cutting the tax burden for millions

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of low and middle-income households. These are real achievements,

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together with targeting resources at children from the poorest

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background at school. We would not be up to do that if we were not in

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government. Do you want Nick Clegg to stay as party leader? Yes, I do.

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He has taken the flak, he has taken the hit, in a sense, for the team.

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But he did the right thing for the country in taking a really

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difficult step for a party that have been in opposition, taking the

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party into government. I think we stepped up to the plate. We have

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demonstrated discipline in government. We are seeking to build

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the foundations for recovery. That is in the national interest. Now,

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it's not just police commissioner elections this autumn, but the

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people of Corby and East Northamptonshire will also be

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heading to the polls to elect a new MP. Best selling author Louise

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Mensch resigned in the summer, sparking the first by-election the

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Conservatives are defending in this parliament. And, as Andrew Sinclar

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reports, its outcome could be critical.

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It is probably safe to say that whoever wins the court the by-

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election will be very different to their predecessor. In the space of

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two years, Louise Mensch became one of the most well-known women in

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children. From magazine photo shoots, to print the Murdochs, to

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no holding back on Twitter, she was rarely out of the news, and then

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she decided to go. It was more about the family that was put

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across the Atlantic and about being a working mother. It is incredibly

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sad, she was a superb parliamentarian, Abri a member of

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the select committee. So important is this election that they are not

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even waiting for the starting gun. The candidates are already pounding

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the streets and the big names dropping in to visit. Why? This is

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no ordinary by-election. Corby has always gone with the party that has

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formed a government, so it is an iconic seat and everybody will be a

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king at it is Hibbert tells us anything about the next general

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election. That is why the Prime Minister dropped in on Friday,

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albeit briefly. The government has to stick with the programme to

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deliver the change that is necessary and recognise that we are

:54:32.:54:36.

starting to seek rebalancing in the economy. It is tough, it is

:54:36.:54:40.

difficult, but we have to stick with the programme, because that

:54:40.:54:46.

will deliver the growth that is needed. Labour start off with an

:54:46.:54:54.

advantage. Their candidate, at Andy Sawford, was chosen last year. The

:54:54.:54:59.

Tories quickly picked local businesswoman Christine Emmett.

:54:59.:55:02.

Because this is a by-election there is already a string of other

:55:02.:55:07.

candidates looking to make their mark. Whether it is in the town of

:55:07.:55:11.

Corby or the pretty villages of East and Northamptonshire, everyone

:55:11.:55:15.

is agreed that it is the economy that will be the main issue. Expect

:55:16.:55:20.

a noisy and hard-fought campaign. Now, the Lib Dems are not the only

:55:21.:55:24.

party with a Conference, as Deborah McGurran reports in our 60 second

:55:24.:55:32.

round up of the political week. Still hoping to change the

:55:32.:55:38.

political landscape, the UK Independence Party, his conference

:55:38.:55:43.

calls for a pledge that there be a referendum on EU membership.

:55:44.:55:48.

think some of the key things that we talked about, our relationship

:55:48.:55:53.

with the European Union, are racing to the top of the political agenda.

:55:53.:55:58.

The Green Party's new leader chose Suffolk for her first official

:55:58.:56:05.

visit. Looking forward to the European elections in 2014. We are

:56:05.:56:10.

hoping to elect our first Green MEP from the eastern region. Millions

:56:10.:56:14.

of tons from under London is to form Europe's biggest man-made

:56:14.:56:20.

nature reserve off the coast of Essex. Plans to shut a prison

:56:20.:56:24.

caught Peter Bone off guard. have been told for years and years

:56:24.:56:27.

that there are not enough places in our prisons, that they are

:56:27.:56:33.

overcrowded. News at accommodation at a new centre parks in bed

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picture could create up to 1500 jobs in the future.

:56:39.:56:43.

Peter Aldous, what is this idea about an agreement with you could?

:56:43.:56:52.

Is that a pact with the devil or a meeting of minds? I think Nigel

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Farage is mischief-making. There will not be an agreement. The

:57:00.:57:05.

Conservative Party will stand on its own two fate. For a

:57:05.:57:09.

relationship with the European Union, with the eurozone and the

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crisis came on there, there may be changes in the eurozone and that is

:57:14.:57:18.

an appropriate time for us to we took our relationship with them and

:57:18.:57:21.

we will come forward with policies that take into account the best

:57:21.:57:26.

interests of the country. Brenda Arthur, if it worked, any pact with

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Labour would work against you? not believe so. I think it shows

:57:36.:57:39.

had an air of desperation from those Conservatives that of

:57:39.:57:47.

thinking about it. Nigel Farage is sending very mixed messages. I

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