16/12/2012 Sunday Politics East

Who is the real winner when the votes stack up?

And the MP trying to solve the problem of how to look after people

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2145 seconds

Welcome to Sunday politics. Later, and then to the scandal of people

losing their homes to pay for elderly care should be in sight.

Someone else who has not chosen to save gets everything paid for by

the state. A lot of people feel that is unfair and we're trying to

address that. And to stop this situation were so often people have

to sell their home. And how strong performances from UKIP in this

region could boost the tally for Labour. UKIP could play a key part

in the next election without winning one seat. Let's me to our

guests. Norman Lamb. And Lisa Duffy. She is the mayor of Ramsey in

Cambridgeshire pop --, the only county run by UKIP.

Let's start with the hospital we discussed last week. The chief

executive still had to appear before the Commons Public Accounts

Committee where its chairman accused senior NHS management of a

negligence. You took these decisions in 2007 to go out and

find places to franchise while at the same time building a big

hospital in Peterborough. It is clear there was not the business or

the money to sustain the two separate hospitals. Norman Lamb,

the first private company to run an NHS hospital. They hospital saddled

with catastrophic debt. Where do you believe these hospitals will be

in ten years' time? It is an interesting model. The company that

is running at, it is still an NHS hospital, people have the same

access, but the company is owned by of its employees from top to bottom.

They sought to redress the quality of health care that hospitals

deliver and there appear to be significant advances there. I

suspect the staff feel engaged as they will have a stake in it.

the future, a where will they be? Obviously there are real pressures

in Peterborough and across the county. I think PFI has played a

major part here. It has been disastrous. The NHS has had its

future mortgaged to the tune of over �70 billion still outstanding.

It was a big mistake of the last government to go down and road.

Lisa Duffy, have the people of Cambridge have been let down by the

planning? Absolutely. There is a high level of immigration coming

into Peterborough. There will be a need for both hospitals. The fact

they have got the PFI, the huge burden on our NHS, what we would

like to see our county-wide health boards. Democratically-elected

people who will make decisions on behalf of their county. The care at

Hitchin but he is absolutely fantastic. I gave birth there and

have had to take my children there, they have 100% focus... We need

integrated care between GPs and hospitals. Now to the issue of

long-term care for the elderly. Thousands of people in this region

are forced to sell their homes and use up all her savings to pay for

it. The Government are looking into her family's can plan for their

future care. He suggested raising the value of what families could

keep of their assets and capping the cost of care over their

lifetime. But how much she did be? Norfolk have the second highest

number of over 75 in the country. The minister responsible for care

and support canvassing opinion on the future of long-term care. We're

doing a survey to get people's views on care for elderly people. A

lot of people feel it's unfair that people have to sell their houses to

pay for care. We are looking at whether we should introduce a cap,

to cap the costs and stock you suffering catastrophic loss if you

or him up one gets dementia or something like that. The draft care

and support bill has been a long time coming. The White Paper was

published in July. If you have saved and worked... He you get

punished for it. The coalition asked Lord still not in 2010 to

make a report on the elderly. The report have suggested allowing

people to keep �100,000 of their assets. We have the problem of

public finances been in a complete mess, we're spending more than way

of bringing in and that has to be taken into account. But the idea of

having a cap so when you reach that cap, the state will take over and

pay your costs from that 0.2 onwards. It would create some

certainty for the private insurance market to come in and offer other

packages to support people. changes proposed by the commission

would better off somewhat better off pensioners. One way is to take

away some of the universal benefits like television licences, winter

fuel allowances. In the short run that could get to a lot of the way

paying for the extra cost. How old are you? IM99. Residents said this

nursing home have had to face up to the consequences of the system as

it is now. One of the biggest worries for old people is the House

there had been saving for all their lives, they have got to sell it.

the average 65-year-old today faces lifetime care costs of up �35,000.

For one in ten people it will be more than 100,000. Do you have any

thoughts on how we pay for care for older people? It is very difficult,

who do you go to? Public responses to the care and support bill would

publish one week ago and it is due before Parliament in the new year.

Cross-party consensus has fallen apart before. Critical planning for

our future care needs depends on a more successful outcome this time.

One has the cap on lifetime care now been talked about going up to

�75,000? We have not settled on a figure and there are still

negotiations going on. I think we need to implement this report, the

idea that the state can help protect people against catastrophic

loss because of dementia Lhasa Apso one I raised the cap? As I said in

a clip, we have to balance the dire state of public finances. We have

to get it under control. We also need to provide protection for

people in their old age. We have not settled on a cap yet. Lisa

Duffy, what is UKIP's view? We're very pleased to see a report like

this that will protect people. People, especially those who have

worked hard all their lives, why should they be penalised? We ought

to be looking after our older generation, they have led us to

where we are now and we should give them the dignity of looking after

them. Does your party have a policy on this? We are working through our

health policy, the key things we would like to see our helping

people save for the future, giving them a reason to save for their

long-term care. We would also like to see a bigger part in supporting

families to enable them to look after their elders. Many years ago,

you would not see people going into as many care homes. Norman Lamb, I

will bring you in a moment. Why does your party not have a policy?

We are reviewing all our policies at the moment. We're taking time to

make sure the policies we bring out and put forward to the constituents

are fully fledged and accountable. We will not be making staff up to

win votes, we will be putting out credible policies. Norman Lamb, if

the cap is set at 55,000, it would cost �1.7 billion the year.

that is the cap set at quite a low level, we may need to set it at a

higher level and we are discussing that in government at the moment.

RU Saini cannot afford this low- level cap? We may not be able to. -

- RU saying. Some of the worst public finances have any G20

country have to be sorted out. The Government has the prime objective

of getting the public finances in order, but also we want to ensure

we make real reform in areas like care for elderly people. For too

long this has been neglected and we have got to the point now were the

three main parties have agreed on this model of a funding and the

task the Nile is to implement that. I think it is really important that

the Government put our elderly care at the top of the agenda. We have

not taken enough time to think about the long-term future. The

other a point about finances, if we were not members of the European

Union, and I know you will laugh at that, but that would be �150

billion the year. One of our Conservative MPs has warned that

the Tories could lose as many as eight seats in this region in the

next election because of the surge in support for UKIP. A recent

opinion poll suggested 21% of people in East support of UKIP.

Probably not enough for any MPs, but by splitting the the right to

centre vote it will make it easier for Labour to win.

The UK Independence Party have been with us for almost 20 years. Most

of that time the other parties have dismissed it as a joke. But not any

more. UKIP are a threat to the Conservative Party. The red lights

are all on and the Government have to do something to persuade

people's fears. We know they can do well in Euro elections, but there

are now making their mark in UK elections. They have 54 local

councillors in the east. It runs Ramsey Council in Cambridgeshire.

They came third in the Corby by- election and poured more than the

Lib Dems in the PCS elections. And most importantly it is splitting

the Conservative votes. They could play a key part in the next

election without winning a single seat. Labour are recovering by

getting votes that went to the Lib Dems in 2010. The Conservatives

need to increase their votes and they're looking at UKIP who are

knocking on the door trying to attract Conservative voters away

from them. It's it could cost us seven or eight seeds. That would

mean we would not have a Conservative government. One of the

places he has in mind is probably Great Yarmouth where there was an

upset in the local elections this year as UKIP split the Tory vote.

In two of those wars we came second and then several others are we came

third. -- wards. This affected the composition of the council, four

Conservatives lost their seats changing the majority on the

council to Labour. That could happen again in the next general

election. The current MP for Yarmouth has a majority over Labour

of just 4,000. It would be more secure if 2000 people have and

voted UKIP. You have to take your opponents seriously, you work hard,

and knock on doors and talk to people. You have got to work hard

and all we can do as politicians is work hard for our communities.

David Cameron it needs to articulate a positive message of

taking powers back from Brussels, of sticking up for British

interests, of moving ultimately to an inner, Out referendum. The Prime

Minister knows many of his MPs want him to be more eurosceptic.

Conservative Party is a broad church. You have people with

different views, but the Government policy is absolutely clear. We need

to be in the European Union because we need the benefit of a single

market. We do not want to be governed by Europe so we begin a

new settlement. The Prime Minister has ruled out any pact with the

party, but many MPs say something must be done before the next

election. In Ipswich is that Qatana MP. Do

you feel worried? -- is the town's MPs. I am working harder every day

of the year. You must be vulnerable though? I am vulnerable to a whole

series of things, people wanting someone else to do the job, is

strong Labour Party, for I am vulnerable to a Liberal Democrat

party locally. This is fluid politics. I do not know anything

about a local UKIP presence. They have not done anything to show they

are interested in Ipswich but when they do we can have a discussion

about it. Are you saying you're not aware of any UKIP threat therefore

you're not worried about it? Not at all. I was saying when I see them,

we will then have a discussion about what they want to do for the

towns. I will make the argument if we want to come out of the European

Union, we will be using tens of thousands of jobs in Suffolk.

we will not see you any time soon making a pact with UKIP? UKIP is a

party that really wants to turn Britain back to the 1950s. They

believe are our best days are behind us. I do not think that is

the kind of Britain we can build all want to build. I think we are

going to do better in the future. Part of that is a new deal with

Europe and that's what we should be proposing in the next few years. Do

people really want to be represented by UKIP? I think there

will be much more stark choice in the next election. Would you like

to see the Prime Minister be more eurosceptic? The pride and Mr has

taken a robust view in Europe. -- the Prime Minister. He vetoed a

treaty at last year and he has conducted negotiations on the

reform of Europe on the European budget. He is doing exactly what he

is asked to do by the British people. The eurozone will come

together soon to make it their own way. Let's bring our other guests

in. Lisa Duffy, you heard what he said your party wants to take the

country back to the 1950s. Clearly not. We want to take our party for

it with the commonsense policies. Our votes are not just coming from

Conservatives, they are coming from Labour. We saw that in Corby and

Rotherham. But you are still the bridesmaid, not yet to the bride.

It is small steps. You can see how quickly we are growing. Have the

viewpoint of the constituents out there are giving us their vote. We

are making any impact in local government and achieving a lot in a

small space of time. Norman Lamb, how do the Lib Dems sit in on this?

You are losing a lot of votes to Labour. You must be concerned?

We're in government for the first time in a very difficult time of

economic plea. You do what you have to do for the national interest. I

believe it is right to be working with the Conservatives to sort out

the mess we inherited. In the past we benefited from protest, UKIP

benefit from protest now. I understand why people are anxious

about the future, eating is an uncertain time. But when it comes

to selecting a government people will think about jobs and the

economy. Being part of a big single market, we are a trading nation, it

is really important we can sell our goods into Europe without tariff

barriers. But we need to be thinking about trading with the

world and not just the European Union. I think we could do that

better by pulling out. If the Labour vote goes up and you lose

both to UKIP, you're in a difficult position, are due? The BBC is

making a typically binary decision here that somehow only Conservative

voters go to UKIP. There are many Labour voters who do that too, Lisa

is right about that. My job as a politician is to do what I believe

to be right in principle. I am not going to start moving because one

particular political faction believes that above all else we

need to come out of Europe. They Any volunteers to be Eric Pickles

secret centre? -- secret Santa. Ongoing concerns over Kettering

hospital caused an argument this week. I will not give way. I will

not give way to the Honourable Member who has not done a great

service to people in my constituency. We will never build a

21st century economy on 19th century infrastructure. Christmas

cheer as a campaign to cut the tax on beer came to Westminster. No

sign yet of a goodwill gift for Nadine Dorries who are still

waiting for the Conservatives were, but I think we know what Eric

Pickles would like to see in his Christmas stocking. You are now

more fondly disposed towards Essex than Yorkshire? Norman Lamb, 19th

century infrastructure, we need better infrastructure to stimulate

growth? I totally agree. Norfolk MPs are also making the case for

investment in the A47. Lisa Duffy, living in the Fens you are not

blessed with transport links. would like to see a better bus

service. There are also improvements to the A14 which helps

people. I would love to make sure that does not become a toll road.