Browse content similar to 16/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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want going ahead because the contracts cost too much to ditch, | :01:15. | :01:25. | |
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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2330 seconds | :01:25. | :40:16. | |
North Norfolk back Devon. The same in the East. I'm Etholle George. | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
Coming up in your local part of the programme. The tale of the waste | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
incinerator. Lots of people don't want it but it's going ahead because | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
it's too expensive to break the contract. That's the story in Devon | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
but the same thing could happen here. | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
Basically, they let the community down, they fundamentally let the | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
people of Plymouth and south-west Devon down. | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
Plus, the mental health service in turmoil. Swingeing cuts to | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
front-line services. �20 million savings and now without a Chief | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
Executive. We are designing a service that is | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
fit for purpose that we believe will provide the same, if not a better | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
standard of care within the constraints of the environment that | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
we are in. But first, our guests this week | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
Kelvin Hopkins is the Labour MP for Luton North and Vicky Ford, a | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
Conservative Member of the European Parliament for the east. Let's talk | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
first about one of the biggest political stories this week. The | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
South Suffolk MP Tim Yeo has stood aside as Chairman of the Energy and | :41:16. | :41:23. | |
Climate Change Committee. While claims he used the role to help a | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
private company influence Parliament are investigated. In a recording, he | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
appears to suggest that he told a businessman what to say to his | :41:29. | :41:35. | |
committee. So how serious is this for Tim Yeo? This is what the | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
Conservative blogger Iain Dale thinks. | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
If the Parliamentary standards committee finds against him, I think | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
he's in a great deal of trouble. If you look at what has happened to | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
Patrick Mercer, he resigned as the Conservative whip and it was fair | :41:51. | :41:59. | |
called. We will see what happens. Tim Yeo may have to have the same | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
view. He is denying it all, he has got to be given a fair hearing in a | :42:06. | :42:13. | |
chair and is to clear his name. How serious is this for him? It is | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
quite serious. We should have had a register of | :42:15. | :42:22. | |
interests a long time ago. MPs get paid a salary to look after their | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
constituents not to take money from companies to lobby for the | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
interest. What is the situation in Europe for | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
committee members like this? Committee members in Europe have an | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
enormous amount of power because they help to shape legislation. | :42:38. | :42:45. | |
There is a declaration of interest. As British Conservatives, when I was | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
first elected in 2009, we did not think that were strong enough. I now | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
disclose every meeting that I have if it has been set up with a | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
business and people can look at that on my website. Once every six months | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
we disclose everybody that we have had a meeting with so you can see, | :43:01. | :43:09. | |
in my view, it transparency is key. As an MP, had you feel about | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
newspapers going about their business in this way? | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
It is a little bit tasteless bed they can do me and they will not | :43:17. | :43:25. | |
find that anything. I do believe we have got it wrong. 2500 years ago, | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
Plato said those in government said that those in government should be | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
people in gold who have no commercial interest. | :43:34. | :43:36. | |
Tomorrow, councillors in Norfolk will vote on whether to scrap the | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
planned waste incinerator for Kings Lynn. It's a huge project, worth | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
�500 million and bitterly opposed by local people. The only people who | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
seemed to want it were Conservatives on Norfolk County Council and now | :43:49. | :43:55. | |
they've lost control at county hall. Simple you might think the new | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
coalition can just scrap the project and walk away. But breaking the | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
contract could cost �90 million. Andrew Sinclair has been to Plymouth | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
where last year they faced the same dilemma. | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
Beside the navy dockyard at Devonport - the new waste | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
incinerator is taking shape. Despite years of protest and an election - | :44:13. | :44:20. | |
the scheme is going ahead. Unlike Kings Lynn the site is next to | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
hundreds of homes, in one of the most deprived areas of Devon, | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
residents like Stuart Wilson look down on the work. It's pretty | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
horrendous. The noise is deafening from eight in the morning until six | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
at night. The house vibrates when they're using the heavy gear and it | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
feels like being a prisoner in your own home. As with the Kings Lynn | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
incinerator this was a controversial development. More than 6,000 people | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
signed a petition against it but the Conservatives who were then in power | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
dismissed the protest and approved the plans arguing that they would | :44:53. | :44:59. | |
save the council �8 million a year. The issue dominated last year's | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
local elections. Lots of people voted for Labour believing that | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
they'd overturn the incinerator. When they got in they said there's | :45:08. | :45:14. | |
nothing we can do. They let people of Plymouth and south west Devon | :45:14. | :45:23. | |
down. Labour tried - as soon as it got into power here at the civic | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
offices it commissioned an independent report but was told by | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
the lawyers that to pull out now would leave it open to legal action | :45:29. | :45:36. | |
and compensation payments of more than �400 million. The council | :45:36. | :45:46. | |
:45:46. | :45:47. | ||
leader said he was frustrated but there was nothing he could do. | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
would bankrupt the city, �430 million we would be up for being | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
sued for, it is not just the construction, it is the costs and | :45:56. | :46:02. | |
profits of the company. Our neighbours, Devon and Torbay, are in | :46:02. | :46:09. | |
this partnership. It's a sign of how sensitive an issue this still is | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
here in Plymouth that no-one from the ruling Labour group would be | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
interviewed for this film while the Conservatives told all their | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
councillors not to speak to us. As one person said to me, this is still | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
very controversial, feelings are still raw. Campaigners, though, | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
argue that the council didn't try hard enough. It's really difficult | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
once you've signed the contract but I think you can go to Europe or go | :46:30. | :46:37. | |
to court and find ways to say this is the wrong solution. And history | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
could be about to repeat itself again in Norfolk. Two weeks ago the | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
council's scrutiny committee was told that to pull out of the Kings | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
Lynn waste contract could cost the authority �80-90 million. | :46:50. | :47:00. | |
:47:00. | :47:02. | ||
Councillors accused officers of scaremongering. We are just trying | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
to make sure that the decision is made that is correct. We want to | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
make sure that members are fully informed. | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
Incinerators take a long time to plan and build; companies know that | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
councils change hands that's why they build harsh penalty clauses | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
into their contracts. The Government gives very generous grants towards | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
schemes like this - cash strapped councils don't want to have to give | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
the money back. I don't trust politicians any more I see them as | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
people who are out for a career rather than out for the original | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
meaning of a politician which is to represent local people. In Plymouth | :47:38. | :47:47. | |
the row over their incinerator has left a very sour taste. | :47:47. | :47:56. | |
The Northwest MP Henry Bellingham joins us from Norwich. You've | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
campaigned hard to stop this incinerator, but you can't deliver | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
can you? I think we can certainly deliver. We | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
haven't seen the contract and the first in the council must do is | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
actually disclose the contract in full so we can all see it. To some | :48:12. | :48:19. | |
extent, we are flying blind. If there is an escape clause for the | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
council to pull out if there is a change of control, if events beyond | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
their control take place, they should be an escape clause. What I | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
would argue if there isn't, there are other ways of mitigating this | :48:32. | :48:41. | |
cost that the government could talk to Northwick county council -- | :48:41. | :48:51. | |
:48:51. | :48:51. | ||
Norfolk county council. Why should the government step in? | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
I'm not saying that the government should rescue the county council if | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
there is the ability to liquidate the damages beyond 20 million yen if | :49:03. | :49:12. | |
they are legally enforceable, it is hardly like lead that they are. | :49:12. | :49:19. | |
To inflict damages against Norfolk county council would be counter | :49:19. | :49:29. | |
:49:29. | :49:30. | ||
reductive. We suggest an independent report looks at this. Also looking | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
at what alternative technologies might be available. When we have all | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
of the information, the councils can take an informed decision. | :49:38. | :49:47. | |
Do you feel that you're letting your constituents down? | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
16,500 people voted against an incinerator. I made a pledge to do | :49:50. | :50:00. | |
:50:00. | :50:00. | ||
all of -- all that I could to stop it. Everybody campaign on a pledge | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
to stop the incinerator. We cannot betray the public. We cannot break | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
election pledges. Now there is the talk of a �90 | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
million fee to pay if the contract does not go again. Bjork public a | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
letdown at this stage. You are talking about the reports of | :50:19. | :50:27. | |
90 million. Where has the report coming from? It seems to have been | :50:27. | :50:34. | |
plucked from the air. Every incinerator is different. Every | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
contract is different. Norfolk county council spent �3 million on | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
accountancy and legal advice free tailor-made contract. We need to see | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
the contract and have experts will get it to see if there is an escape | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
clause in to see whether there is going to be a possibility of damage | :50:48. | :50:54. | |
is more than 20 million. What message does this say about | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
Conservatives in power, we have had a Tory county council fighting with | :50:57. | :51:02. | |
a Tory district Council the end a Tory MP fighting with the county | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
council, what does this say about Tories? | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
We campaign for what our electorate wanted. I think this is about | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
localism, local democracy, it is about listening to people, in all of | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
the report and going on, talking about large figures, even if the | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
figure was at the higher end of what has been speculated, around about | :51:26. | :51:34. | |
five, six or 7%. If the worst comes to the worst, I think this will be | :51:34. | :51:44. | |
:51:44. | :51:53. | ||
enforceable over the 20 million. We have to stand by our voters. | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
Where do you stand with it? It is a long way away from my constituency. | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
As I understand it, the company involved at this stage has walked | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
away from the scheme. There is some doubt whether the scheme will go | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
ahead. I'm not completely informed of the detail but clearly, I think | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
the problem is that the local authorities, especially district | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
councils commit themselves to vast contracts and there is a change of | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
control, can they commit when I have campaigned against something? | :52:26. | :52:34. | |
Vicky Ford, isn't it Europe that has opposed these landfill taxes. The | :52:34. | :52:44. | |
:52:44. | :52:50. | ||
landfill tax is one issue, we hate landfill which is why we recycle. | :52:50. | :52:57. | |
The issue is here that local people, be that Bedfordshire, Norfolk or | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
Hertfordshire, the people that live next to them do not like them and | :53:00. | :53:03. | |
they do not want them. The hearts and minds of the people in the UK | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
are not on the side of the incinerator. I wonder it bit, we | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
have announced a change to wind turbine policy that if you do agree | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
to one, the local people see financial benefit. I wonder, whether | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
or not we need to think about that. Much more of how you win the hearts | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
and minds of local people. Is there a enough help available for local | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
councillors? I do not think so. | :53:29. | :53:37. | |
Central government must have some role in this. I think there is | :53:37. | :53:47. | |
:53:47. | :53:55. | ||
something fundamentally wrong. Fears are growing that big cuts in | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
spending could harm the care of mental health patients living in | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
Norfolk and Suffolk. The NHS Trust which covers the area, provides care | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
for everything from substance misuse to learning disabilities. But 500 | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
jobs are expected to go, as the trust tries to save �40 million and | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
now its chief executive has resigned. All mental health trusts | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
are having to make big savings but nowhere in the east is facing cuts | :54:13. | :54:15. | |
on this scale. Kim Riley reports. Former teacher and Libby Sooter has | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
complex mental health problems. The nine years the Norfolk eating | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
disorders Association has been her lifeline. I would not be here if it | :54:23. | :54:30. | |
wasn't for the charity. Absolutely. Totally. Not a shadow of | :54:30. | :54:36. | |
a doubt. Libby says that under the dress she | :54:36. | :54:46. | |
:54:46. | :54:48. | ||
had 11 could care coordinators -- 11 care coordinators. The trust is a | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
big operation, employing some 4500 staff across Norfolk and Suffolk. It | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
caters for their whole range of mental health problems from | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
depression to schizophrenia. The growing challenge of dementia as | :55:00. | :55:10. | |
:55:10. | :55:13. | ||
well. Health sent -- health secretary Jeremy Hunt went to. There | :55:13. | :55:19. | |
are plans to to close 24 beds at this building in Lowestoft. It can't | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
get any worse, we have got a wonderful facility here that has | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
been vandalised and ripped apart for no good reason. | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
It is terrible, to see this happen. On the other end, the acute section | :55:33. | :55:43. | |
is also under threat. Edwin Thomas has announced his | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
resignation. Getting the best price for | :55:49. | :55:56. | |
everything was going too far. What impact is this going to have four | :55:56. | :56:02. | |
people getting back in two employment. The assurance I can give | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
you is that we are designing a purpose that is fit for the purpose. | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
We believe it will provide the same, if not better standard of care | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
within the constraints of the financial environment that we are | :56:12. | :56:21. | |
I know that places like here are funded or part funded by the NHS and | :56:21. | :56:30. | |
they need a bit of cash, a big chunk gone means that cutting services and | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
these people are the only people that help. | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
Libby Sooter ending that report by Kim Riley. Earlier, we put some of | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
those points to Health Minister and North Norfolk MP, Norman Lamb. He | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
said the cuts to jobs and services may have to be reconsidered. | :56:44. | :56:51. | |
I think it's incumbent on the board to review in the light of this | :56:51. | :56:57. | |
decision the course of action they are taking. What is striking is that | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
other trust along the country are not taking the sort of action. We | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
are not seeing proposals for significant job losses elsewhere. It | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
may be that there is a problem with overspending in the past, maybe, as | :57:11. | :57:17. | |
they have said, taking clear, decisive action now to redesign the | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
way that services are provided. It is very clear, actually, that what | :57:21. | :57:27. | |
we need to be doing is reducing the length of time people stay in | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
patient beds in hospital because, generally, that is not good for the | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
individual. Vicky Ford, despite the move to | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
treat more people at home, we are going to see more people requiring | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
mental health services if only because of the ageing population. | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
The good news is we are living longer the bad news is that there | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
are more people with dementia. My understanding is that one of the | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
things that we want to see is more help to keep those people at home | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
with support packages at home and therefore looking at how many in | :58:00. | :58:06. | |
beds you need. These initial consultation was very rushed, people | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
do not feel consulted, it is now being pulled back again, there is a | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
new chairman and there will be a new chief executive. We need to listen | :58:15. | :58:21. | |
to local people and reconsider. These principles of cutting | :58:21. | :58:27. | |
services, this was your party? My understanding is looking at how you | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
look at services. Because of the increased demand, had | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
you look at having the money that you have got go further because of | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
the ageing population. What you're seeing, there is more money being | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
spent on the NHS, today, then there was under the Labour government. | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
There was also increased demand because we are living longer. I | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
don't want to stop us from living longer but we need to make sure you | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
get the service is right. A Labour government would have to do the same | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
thing? If it was a Labour government, I | :58:57. | :59:04. | |
would be pressing to spend more. I'm relieved that the cuts are not so | :59:04. | :59:14. | |
far affecting local health services in my area. Or anybody else's. | :59:14. | :59:20. | |
On the whole, it is in those services, Maya understanding is that | :59:20. | :59:27. | |
this would put the purpose of this review, is to look at how you | :59:27. | :59:32. | |
deliver more in the community. Is there a way to do this better, are | :59:32. | :59:40. | |
you doing better it in Luton? I don't know, but certainly things | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
are not as bad as they are in Luton. -- they're not as bad in | :59:45. | :59:55. | |
Luton. If there were these cats we would not see these problems. -- | :59:55. | :00:01. | |
cuts. We are living longer so the costs | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
are getting higher and higher. We have defined other ways to deliver | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
because we all want to have the best treatment. | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
We are still seeing understaffing in hospitals and we're still seeing | :00:14. | :00:24. | |
:00:24. | :00:36. | ||
night nurses at too low a level. Here is a 62nd round up of fingers. | :00:36. | :00:44. | |
-- 62nd round up of the news. The reviewing the performance ran to 31 | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
pages assessing all aspects of the service on or on all accounts it | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
failed. It's time we got behind a new | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
management and part of that is investing in the frontline of the | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
ambulance trust. The Peterborough MP met the Health Secretary over �37 | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
million debts at the city's new hospital. | :01:03. | :01:11. | |
It may have do lose staff and services. It is a great health care | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
facility and it will remain open which is reassuring. | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
Keith Simpson on the panel advising the government on World War I | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
commemorations. There are going to be those that | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
will say we must not forget the fact that we went to war for very good | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
reasons and in many respects we were right. Others will say the opposite. | :01:34. | :01:44. | |
:01:44. | :01:45. | ||
A bit of political heave Ho for Louise -- Therese Coffey. | :01:45. | :01:52. | |
Raising money for Macmillan support. Let's talk about the World War I | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
commemorations. What will be the situation in other countries? | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
I hope there will be a time when we will remember, that we do not want | :02:02. | :02:12. | |
:02:12. | :02:14. | ||
to go back to a situation of conflict on the conflict continent . | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
I think there will be a time for reflection. Clearly, we are in the | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
massive review of our relationship with Europe. I want that to be a | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
piece will review and not an acrimonious, expensive one. How | :02:27. | :02:34. | |
should we commemorate this, Kevin? The war was about the appalling | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
depths of people. The right and wrong of the war another here nor | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
there. -- are neither here nor there. | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
Clearly, it is important that we mark these commemorations. Yes, | :02:50. | :02:56. |