Browse content similar to 14/07/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Two councils, one staff. Is sharing the only way our local authorities | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
can survive? And MP Nadine Dorries on UKIP, expenses and reality | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
:01:42. | :01:42. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2218 seconds | :01:42. | :38:41. | |
the programme. I'm Etholle George. Coming up: | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
Share and share alike - the two councils with one staff. Is this the | :38:45. | :38:54. | |
only way to go when money's tight and getting tighter? We could not | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
continue as we were before. Two small district councils cannot | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
afford now to be on their own. need partners. There is going to be | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
treasure to merge the whole thing. It will certainly save money but I | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
think it runs the risk of alienating people from local government, | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
because the authorities that they live in are too big. | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
First though, let's meet our guests. Stephen Giles-Medhurst leads the | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
Liberal Democrats on Hertfordshire County Council and is also a Three | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
Rivers district councillor. He was head of Customs at Stansted Airport | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
before going into local politics full-time. | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
And the woman who went into the jungle and out of the Conservative | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
party, for six months at least. Now, Nadine Dorries is back in the fold, | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
as the Tory MP for Mid-Bedfordshire. Of course, she's never afraid to | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
speak her mind - famously describing the Prime Minister and the | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
Chancellor as a "couple of posh boys". Welcome to you both. | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
But let's talk first about public sector payoffs. This week, BBC top | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
brass were given a dressing down by the public accounts committee for | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
huge pay-offs to senior managers. And here we have our own row | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
brewing. Norfolk County Council has launched an inquiry over a payment | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
of �106,000 to its former Chief Executive, David White, who was made | :40:07. | :40:15. | |
redundant in April. Councillors were not told about the full amount. The | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
Conservatives controlled the council at the time. The then-leader Bill | :40:19. | :40:29. | |
:40:29. | :40:30. | ||
Borrett said there was no intention to cover anything up. We paid the | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
Chief Executive 35 -- �35,000 for being made redundant. The honour | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
money is three months notice, some money towards his pension. That is | :40:40. | :40:47. | |
standard. The thing is, it he was paid a very large sum of money so | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
all the features are big. From your standpoint on | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
Hertfordshire County Council, does a �106,000 payoff to a Chief Executive | :40:52. | :41:01. | |
sound like too much? It is obviously a large amount, nowadays. The | :41:01. | :41:07. | |
question is whether or not that perch in person was -- that person | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
is contractually obliged. It goes back to how he was employed | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
originally on whether this was discretionary. This is not the first | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
time we have had this problem in the East of England. We had the �200,000 | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
payoff to the Chief Executive in Suffolk a couple of years ago. It is | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
a question of how the contract was drawn up originally. Has that person | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
been paid what they are entitled to or been given extra bonus payments? | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
Are we developing a witchhunt mentality towards the public sector? | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
I don't think it's a witchhunt mentality. Its accountability. The | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
problem is that many of these contracts which are drawn up I've | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
done so with poor HR practice. So that when the time comes for a Chief | :41:50. | :41:57. | |
Executive or whoever to leave, people in the BBC even, a massive | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
pay-out seems immoral to the general public, although, legally, they are | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
correct. You cannot criticise that payment because legally, it is as | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
the contract was drawn up. It is as it should be. One has to ask who | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
drew it in the first place and, morally, this is something that will | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
be Republican Guard -- will be repugnant to the general public. | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
We've been talking about a council chief executive but MPs look set to | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
lose their �33,000 Golden Goodbyes when they leave Parliament. Are you | :42:28. | :42:35. | |
happy with that? When I first became MP, we used to get two and a half | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
years salary and it was dropped down to �33,000. I think the problem is | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
that the average life of an MP is eight years. Your future is not in | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
your hands. It is in the hands of the electorate. You have to except | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
that. And MPs pay - a 10% rise being | :42:51. | :43:00. | |
While we're talking about public bodies saving money, here's a tale | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
of two councils. Mid-Suffolk and Babergh are already next door | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
neighbours. But now, the relationship has become much closer. | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
They're the first in the country to share one staff team between them. | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
It will save �1.8 million per year, every year. And that's 9% of the | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
joint annual budget. District councils are under huge financial | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
pressure. So are mergers the only way to stay afloat in the future? | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
Liz Perryman really cares about local housing. An active member of | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
her local tenants forum, she's now on the Joint Housing Board because | :43:25. | :43:35. | |
:43:35. | :43:36. | ||
Babergh Council and neighbouring Mid-Suffolk have pooled their staff. | :43:36. | :43:42. | |
Now that they have merged, it is a lot better. So you would see it as | :43:42. | :43:49. | |
an improvement? In terms of service, DS. Do you put that down to the fact | :43:49. | :43:56. | |
there is one single team for both? Yes, I think I do. I have to say, I | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
was a bit dubious. Now, it is working and it is all set up | :44:01. | :44:10. | |
properly, it seems to be better than it was. These are Babergh district | :44:10. | :44:17. | |
Council offices in Hadleigh. These are Mid-Suffolk's. Both councils | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
have agreed to completely integrate their staff into a single team, | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
serving to councils. These days, the leaders of the two | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
councils have to spend a lot of time together. But if the result of a | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
referendum in 2011 had been different, there would have been | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
only one of them. A super authority would have been created, following a | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
total merger of both councils. But the vote wasn't in favour - so | :44:35. | :44:44. | |
they've gone for a complete staff integration instead. If you merge, | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
you are sending out a very different picture. We felt that we should go | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
out to the public. We had agreed between the councils that it had to | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
be agreed on both or it would not go ahead. It was not agreed. | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
Mid-Suffolk were for, Babergh were against. We still went ahead with | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
integration and transformation. could not continue as we were | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
before. No two small district councils can afford now to be on | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
their own. You need partners. I think the communities expect us to | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
do things differently. We live in a changing world. Local government | :45:19. | :45:25. | |
cannot stay as it was. There was a referendum a couple of years ago, | :45:25. | :45:34. | |
did you vote? No.Did you vote? did and said no. I like to have it | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
here, the further away they go, the less chance of having any, you have | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
local democracy, is what I thought you're going to have. It seems to | :45:42. | :45:48. | |
want to get bigger and bigger and less personal. I voted against it | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
because I would sooner have local accountability. But it's not | :45:51. | :45:59. | |
happening, is it? It's pretty difficult to argue that the staff | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
should be merged and yet the number of councillors should remain the | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
same. There is going to be pressure to merge the whole thing. That | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
brings a certain difficulties. It will certainly save money but I | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
think it runs the risk of alienating people from local government because | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
the authorities that they live in are too big. | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
Whatever the concerns over the strength of the links between | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
communities and their authorities, the traditional model of district | :46:24. | :46:33. | |
councils standing alone appears to be in its death throes. It is very | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
hard to see how the separate authorities can be retained. There | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
will be pressure to merge and get better. While that might bring the | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
economies of scale, it also brings disadvantages of people being | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
disconnected from the local authorities they live in. Merged | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
councils might be cheaper to run but they could lead to even more | :46:51. | :46:58. | |
political disengagement. If we are changing everything else, why do we | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
still want to keep the same number of councillors? Why? What rationale | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
is behind it? There is not one. Those who would like more | :47:08. | :47:10. | |
councillors representing fewer people and a more local democracy | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
might disagree. Brandon Lewis is the Local | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
Government Minister and also the MP for Great Yarmouth. He told Andrew | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
Sinclair that sharing staff is the way only forward for district | :47:20. | :47:30. | |
:47:30. | :47:32. | ||
councils. Absolutely. We are actively encouraging local | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
government conferences for small district councils to look at going | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
down this type of fraud. There are variations and looking at what is | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
right for every council will be slightly different. As a matter of | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
principle, this is where a small districts should be going. Is there | :47:47. | :47:53. | |
any evidence that this does save money? Absolutely. One of the first | :47:53. | :48:00. | |
regions to do this was outside our region and the saving about 20%. | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
When you have a �10 million budget, that is substantial. But regularly | :48:04. | :48:11. | |
in terms of what the taxpayer funds. Many councils have done it. There | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
are some very good examples as to how it works and the benefits. | :48:16. | :48:23. | |
an interesting match, in Suffolk. Babergh increased council tracks and | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
-- council tax and Mid-Suffolk slows theirs. That confirms why this works | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
so well. You keep your local democratic sovereignty. Those | :48:32. | :48:38. | |
councillors make decisions for their area. The fact that you get | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
different decisions is fine. Babergh can make the right decision. The | :48:44. | :48:46. | |
fact that their management team is shared with Mid-Suffolk does not | :48:46. | :48:53. | |
change that. Even though Babergh increased taxes | :48:53. | :48:59. | |
and therefore want to spend more money and Mid-Suffolk does not. | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
of the reasons that some regions were able to do this is that they | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
had a low base in the first place. It could be the have reticular | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
services they want to focus on spin Bunny. That just proves that it | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
works. Those local councillors, in that area, still have the | :49:14. | :49:20. | |
sovereignty to make decisions for that area. Sharing management | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
doesn't change that. In anything, you share offices and can get | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
different views. Different experience. Is there not a danger | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
that, even under this system, councils to become more remote and | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
less accessible? You still have the local councillors in place, but the | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
management is overseeing a much wider area and therefore cannot know | :49:40. | :49:48. | |
the local area as well. I think what makes a Council accountable and | :49:48. | :49:54. | |
local is the counsellor. They are who we elect. I want to see | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
councillors have the best officers possible. It is the councillors were | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
the decisions that. That is why it is important we keep that local, | :50:00. | :50:08. | |
accountable democracy. Sharing Management allows the best financial | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
prospects. This Government said that they will not go in for local | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
government reorganisation. That is because it is expensive and | :50:17. | :50:23. | |
top-down. This is about localism. We can encourage councils to do what we | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
think is right and show them best practice, like Mid-Suffolk and! Are | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
now showing. There are many others I could name but it will not take up | :50:31. | :50:38. | |
all my time with that. -- all your time. That is very different to ours | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
drawing a line and saying this is what we shall do. We are saying this | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
is the right way to go for local taxpayers but they can decide who | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
they wanted to partner with and how they want to structure. Then it is | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
locally driven and decided. Are we seeing the end of our | :50:52. | :51:02. | |
district councils? I don't agree with that. If residents want mergers | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
of council that is how the board. In this instance, they did not want | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
that. That was the Democratic well and the two councils accepted that. | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
Since local government is facing enormous pressures, reduction in | :51:16. | :51:22. | |
grants, shared services, backroom offices, in terms of staffing, is | :51:22. | :51:28. | |
the way forward. It is not necessarily merging councils. The | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
third of need to be local accountability and local | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
decision-making. There is an issue, if you have a much larger authority, | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
many people say county councils are remote if you live in one end of the | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
county, 15 or 20 miles away from County Hall. There is the danger of | :51:43. | :51:50. | |
that. Do you agree with that? As long as the services are good, do | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
people really care whether they are shared? I agree about local | :51:54. | :52:03. | |
constable to and local councillors. Able to want that. -- local account | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
-- accountability. They wanted to be somebody they can approach easily. | :52:07. | :52:14. | |
In Bedfordshire, we got rid of County Council and went unitary a | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
few years ago. We now have three unitary authorities. You have to | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
take into account the diversity of the areas where they operate offered | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
and Luton and a rural area in the middle. We have three councils who | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
address the needs specifically. in reality, a merger is on the | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
cards, that is not what people voted for. It is not terribly democratic, | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
is it? No. That would be for residents to tell their local | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
councillors at the next local elections but that is not what they | :52:48. | :52:55. | |
want and make it clear. There was a difference of opinion about the | :52:55. | :53:03. | |
council tax. Is a worry about councillors' caseloads? If you are | :53:03. | :53:10. | |
in a disparate area between urban and rural, there will be a different | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
element of casework and different pressures. Areas of deprivation. | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
They give problems for residents and the need to go to the council more | :53:17. | :53:27. | |
:53:27. | :53:52. | ||
with Nadine Dorries. You've just been re-adopted as Mid | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
Beds' Conservative candidate for the next election. But you said in May | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
that you're considering a joint Tory-UKIP ticket, is that still on | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
the cards? I think the Conservative party have made it clear that there | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
will be no joint tickets and they will not be going forward in a | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
relationship with UKIP, it is not on the cards. I was not particularly | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
concerned or myself, to be frank. I think the issue for me was more to | :54:15. | :54:23. | |
do with my councillors. Many of the councillors in mid-Bedfordshire are | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
all died in the wool Conservatives who embody those values. Actually, | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
they have exactly the same policies and belief as any UKIP councillors | :54:32. | :54:38. | |
standing next to them. I did not see the point of there being two people | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
standing on the same ticket. For me, it was about saying to UKIP that | :54:41. | :54:49. | |
we believe in many of the same things you do and so take your | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
conservative firepower elsewhere. You're not defecting but you hardly | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
curry favour with the leadership - famously calling David Cameron and | :54:55. | :55:00. | |
George Osborne "arrogant posh boys". Do you regret that? I never regret | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
anything I do. On the subject of MPs expenses, | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
you've said you're not going to claim them and pay everything out of | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
your salary. Is this anything to do with two ongoing investigations into | :55:09. | :55:18. | |
your expenses? No. Actually, I have not claimed travel expenses for a | :55:18. | :55:25. | |
while now. I think as a high profile MP, I am a sitting duck. Anybody who | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
wants to have a pot at me can do so. All I have to do is pick up the | :55:30. | :55:37. | |
phone and make a complaint. That is a position you put yourself in. | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
have taken the decision that I do not want to claim any more | :55:42. | :55:48. | |
expenses. I have never claimed for late-night meals or child care. | :55:48. | :55:55. | |
there a witchhunt? It is interesting because somebody else in the BBC | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
said to me that there is a small group of people who talk to each | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
other every single day about you on Twitter on the Internet. The plot | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
what they are going to do next. do you feel about that? I don't read | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
it or see it but have to deal with the consequences. If I just removed | :56:11. | :56:17. | |
myself from the expenses, it will cost me �30,000 a year and means I | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
am doing my job for free. What about the money you earned from | :56:20. | :56:28. | |
appearing on I'm a Celebrity. Are you going to declare it? You say you | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
haven't earned it but it must have reached a bank account somewhere. | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
One of the inquiries, I am very much forward to that report. When you | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
have that thorough report, you will have that answer. Are you not go | :56:43. | :56:51. | |
into answer any questions? I can't, there is an investigation ongoing. | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
All I will say is wheat until the report is produced. I am looking | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
forward to that. When you expecting an outcome? How do you feel about it | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
hanging over your head? Very soon. I can't wait for it to come at. I | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
can't wait for these reports to comment. The summer is coming and I | :57:09. | :57:16. | |
would quite like to to just get over that. You did get paid, did you not? | :57:16. | :57:23. | |
Wait till it comes out. You're not denying that you got paid? Wait | :57:23. | :57:30. | |
until the report. What about Strictly Come Dancing? That is | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
nonsense! That is a joke! I think somebody said to me on Twitter, I | :57:36. | :57:44. | |
don't even remember, wasn't on Twitter or in an interview? Somebody | :57:44. | :57:50. | |
ask me if I would do it and I said laughing that I had enough of | :57:50. | :57:57. | |
reality TV and then said it would be fun. Would you do it?No. Your local | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
party chairman told us he'd tie a ball and chain to your ankles to | :58:01. | :58:09. | |
stop you. Would you do other reality TV? No. My constituents loved it, it | :58:09. | :58:17. | |
was not inappropriate. What might -- what it has done is given me access | :58:17. | :58:27. | |
:58:27. | :58:28. | ||
to people I never had access to before, like teenagers. | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
It's been a good week for our fisherman and Harlow's Robert Halfon | :58:31. | :58:33. | |
has been standing out from the crowd in the Commons. | :58:34. | :58:35. | |
Here's Ian Barmer with our 60 second round-up. | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
Good news, this week, for east coast fishermen. Not the big trawlers but | :58:39. | :58:41. | |
the one-man bands in small boats. With Government support, they now | :58:42. | :58:50. | |
have a bigger slice of North Sea quotas. It is a lifeline for many of | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
the fishermen along our shores. They want that quarterback, we want our | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
fishing industry is to survive. MP Peter Bone introduced a bill to | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
eradicate modern-day slavery. His ten minute rule bill passed | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
unopposed but still needs government support. | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
Energy Minister Greg Barker came to the Corby steelworks to hear they're | :59:07. | :59:13. | |
losing business because gas and electricity are so expensive. And | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
how could you miss Robert Halfon in a suit like that? The Speaker | :59:17. | :59:24. | |
couldn't. Anything to catch your eye, Mr Speaker. And neither could | :59:24. | :59:32. | |
the Communities Secretary. One knows when one has been tangled. | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
The harlow MP is a man who knows being noticed is a big part of the | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
political game. A very bright suit, Nadine Dorries. | :59:40. | :59:50. | |
Is it important for MPs to keep a high profile? I think so. I think | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
Robert should have gone into the jungle! Robert wearing that suit and | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
doing anything he can to make sure that the residents of Havel know who | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
he is and now his name will do him, serve him good. | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
Is profile just as important at a local level? Have you got a | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
brightly-coloured suit in the wardrobe? I have some colourful | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
shirts but it is important to keep a high profile on the issues that | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
matter to residents. Aren't we a bit obsessed with | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
profile though? You went into the jungle to make yourself a household | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
name, you say, but aren't you playing into a superficial celebrity | :00:21. | :00:31. | |
:00:31. | :00:34. | ||
culture? I don't think so, no. It's really interesting because I think | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
one of the most important things as an MP is to make sure that people do | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
know who you are and can access you and understand you and know what you | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
were like. The one thing that I do know about being a high profile MP | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
is that it means my caseload is much bigger than it ever was before. By | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
office is far harder worked than it ever was before. That is because | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
people know who I am and now they can approach me. | :00:56. | :01:04. | |
Does profile translate into votes? We will know at the next election. | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
It may or may not do. It depends on whether you can help those | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
residents. The higher profile means you get more casework and if that | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
helps people sell their problems and can find a way out for the issues, | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
that is a good thing. Thank you for joining us. That's all from us for | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
the summer, as the MPs go on their holidays next week. | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
But you can still keep in touch via our website, where Deborah | :01:26. | :01:29. |