13/10/2013 Sunday Politics East

Morning, welcome to the veritable Sunday Politics. We have Alastair

Charmichael. We'll ask him what Sunday Politics. We have Alastair

Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps has that his predecessor Michael

Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps going on and on and on. He'll bang

Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne

Here in the East: We are looking at will be with us. We'll ask him for

Here in the East: We are looking at our academies. Are they the solution

or just part of the problem? And it

or just part of the problem? says we've misunderstood the problem

of human trafficking and that men pundits who we try to shuffle out of

a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an

Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving

chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen a a shift to the lot of. Two have

announced policy changes which could Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves

says Labour will be tougher on the Tories. While Tristram Hunt says

Labour loves Tory-style free schools after all. Here he is on the BBC

viewers. If you are a group of parents, social entrepreneurs,

teachers, interested in setting parents, social entrepreneurs,

school in areas where you need new school place, the Labour Government

will be on your side. That's free enterprise and innovation. It will

will be on your side. That's free be in areas of need. We have a

school places crisis going on. It teachers in these schools. And

accountability. What is going on with the Al Madina school is because

of terrible mistakes with Michael I'm not sure if the policies have

changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have

changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and

changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of

reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge

of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.

Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying

Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip

from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of

need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,

we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set

these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,

polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've

polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael

Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.

And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy

debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.

This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.

This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which

is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?

They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free

only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I

always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed

Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether

they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried

the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the

Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is

no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say

what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free

schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet

defined need. It could be, we've run schools are so bad we need schools.

If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they

unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of

higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience

he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for

Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD

from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper

teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not

have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never

been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow

free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to

Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do

the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more

#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,

rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping

beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in

and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street

and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to

see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the

back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started

can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties

changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.

Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit

Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm

disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been

able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one

imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and

simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of

the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic

Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet

Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

ranks were shifting too. The PM Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and

turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men

backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends

of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers

of George Osborne. And, all the learning of Labour's changes. Labour

too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight.

Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de

peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing

peer row would be hard to describe past out of the picture seemed to be

the name of the day. Liam Byrne With Diane Abbott also gone, was

this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right

used to mean someone who wanted depends what you mean. Blair right

Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely

with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain

with him. Now it means sometimes of ideologyies or ideas. There are

still very much those kind of Blair rights within the party. But we

still very much those kind of Blair seeing the group around Tony Blair

are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was

over. New bees were sharing the ministers quietly thanked commits

raters. Or -- commiserators. Or ministers quietly thanked commits

disified. How much much someone standing here might want it to be

the case, you are unlikely to get someone coming out of that do going

"how could." And running off crying! And the brand, spanking new Scottish

Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins us from Orkney on a line that hasn't

been used since the fleet was used in the outbreak of World War I! I

wasn't around at the time. I'm hearing you loud and clear. Why

wasn't around at the time. I'm you agreed to run a department?

wasn't around at the time. I'm you wanted to abolish six years

wasn't around at the time. I'm Hello? Maybe our connections are not

Charmichael. Can you hear me? I Hello? Maybe our connections are not

hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.

Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department

you wanted to abolish six years have you agreed to run a department

Because this is the, probably one of the most important jobs in British

politics at the moment. To ensure that Scotland remains part of the

UK. Even when I was talking about the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs

of Scotland -- representation of Scotland within Whitehall, there was

always a job to be done. That is true in spades now. I will focus on

making sure the UK Government has a real voice in that debate. What

making sure the UK Government has a you that Michael Moore didn't have?

Look, I think Michael Moore did you that Michael Moore didn't have?

excellent job. The work he did delivering the Edinburgh agreement

clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to

substantial piece of work. I'm not friend of mine. I will say that

substantial piece of work. I'm not we go forward into this, this is now

about the actual debate itself. we go forward into this, this is now

will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to

just some abstract debate about nationhood, sovereignty, this is a

their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot

challenge. I understand that. But if you're being put in there to save

the union, every pole has the no -- poll has the no campaign margin

alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing pretty well to save the union. I

suspect you've been given the job to Scotland? And lieu, you misread

suspect you've been given the job to situation if you -- Andrew, you

misread the situation new think anybody is going to be the person

who will save the union. The people who will save the union are the

people of Scotland if they turn who will save the union are the

next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for

that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own

party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You

were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in

fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the

Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for

everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for

a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could

have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and

for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in

three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition

survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I

was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.

So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.

As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also

As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls

are a snapshot. They are not a prediction of what will happen in

the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next

election nor the referendum is one or lost yet. One of the things I

really want to be guarding against because we are a good margin ahead

today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.

Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal

Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the

You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should

David Cameron face him? I am happy debate. Should David Cameron face

him? No, because that allows Alex Nationalists to portray this as

him? No, because that allows Alex sort of contest or choice between a

vision of Scottish social democracy and English conservativism, which it

is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to

be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David

Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is

not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,

the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name

wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described

the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were

you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I

think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I

we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we

are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we

hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has

published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the

head. I am not giving up the battle for the hearts and Scotland because

there is a good strong case, as somebody who is proud to be Scottish

and to be British, for Scotland somebody who is proud to be Scottish

remain part of the UK. You come somebody who is proud to be Scottish

distilleries and I understand you celebratory drink for your new post.

Not a drop has touched my lips. celebratory drink for your new post.

supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the

supporting local business! I will be of November, I will be doing it

supporting local business! I will be aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if

website, they can donate. It is worthwhile. I cannot think of a

better cause. One Cabinet minister who many thought might get Reef

better cause. One Cabinet minister Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics.

minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I

would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it

would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy

it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry

on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry

I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have

survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this

reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,

asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my

role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings

of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.

You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why

You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to

achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since

I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get

governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems

is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is

is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.

The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you

might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you

bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you

that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you

experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the

Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on

Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain

adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda

on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and

representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have

firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of

Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is

Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in

Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after

the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last

the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme

nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party

must be full of extremely silly nationalists. The people who are

desperate to have a referendum are all the people who actually want to

referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get

across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing

across to the public, don't just read in the newspaper about what the

commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do

bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a

leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from

influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on

influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we

spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being

threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will

threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.

It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be

seen voting for something your heart Look, many of your colleagues I

seen voting for something your heart interviewed say that if the choice

was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and

leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in

even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I

got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I

investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.

investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward

the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that

the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to

That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is

particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is

Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is

nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?

one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it

would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the

dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a

strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree

persuaded when David delivers his reforms. The latest poll gives

Labour a ten point lead over the Tories and the reason why it has a

ten point lead is because UKIP are up there with 18% of the vote and

ten point lead is because UKIP are the Tory vote has slumped in the

Paul to 27%. How would you see off UKIP? By saying you need a strong

Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced

terrible problems. Every Government I have been in has been behind in

the polls. This Government is not as popular as the previous Government I

have served in under the three previous prime ministers. When you

get an election, people have to previous prime ministers. When you

themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this

country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. off UKIP. People will not listen to

that. When people answer an opinion poll, they tell you how annoyed

that. When people answer an opinion are by something that has recently

upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government

I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you

have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern

us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided

going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,

anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the

Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in

disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit

disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing

the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from

prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from

former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in

the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a

political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is

clearly know, and thank you for inviting me back. You have set your

career in politics is over so what does the future hold for you? I

career in politics is over so what happy doing what I am doing, I am

passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things

on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,

on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian

on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian

of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on

political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of

political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he

rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was

actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same

thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why

thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not

offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?

coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own

Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are

going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib

Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib

interesting election because I think you will have essentially three

party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a

battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,

the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't

the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections,

the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind

leadership be in jeopardy? I've could come fourth on fifth behind

in countless cycles where we've could come fourth on fifth behind

very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general

election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in

jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I

think he'll lead the party into at the next general election. I

next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most

people think. If we are heading we'll do much better than most

another hung Parliament, which is Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

coalition with the Labour Party Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to

colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour

Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of

the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is

the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because

we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't

take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to

coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with

either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer

Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It

is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things

you get that with one party rather than another, that's fine. You stand

up for Liberal Democrat values, than another, that's fine. You stand

for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping

up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise

up your interest in energy matters. temporary price freeze? There's

up your interest in energy matters. pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a

sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which

led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift

everybody automatically to the unfortunately we're at the stage in

the political cycle where we are getting clap trap. You're against

the freeze? It is a bad idea when we are trying to encourage investment.

When the market can give us some of the lowest gas and electricity

son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian

prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our

base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look

at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after

all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after

green taxes is George Osborne with should no better. One the-hip ok

not want it. We do not need it to agreement because the Conservatives

not want it. We do not need it to electricity system. It was a revenue

raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about

green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,

wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style

press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it

refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither

refuses to sign up to the Leveson nor there. The Guardian gives me a

up to what you believe in will you up to what you believe in will you

support it? No because I'm sure they'll allow me to make that that

point. I think newspapers will sign up for it. They've had a collapse in

public trust and confidence in recent years. Unparalleled. They

need a third party endorsement to say these guys have cleaned up their

act. If they are going to get trust haven't signed up, which they won't,

you can come back and we'll talk You're watching the Sunday politics.

is fit for office in the speaker's chair.

So many of our MPs entering the race to sit in the Speaker 's chair?

And as more and more of our schools become sponsored academies, are they

providing the answer to ball performance or not?

I started my own website regarding these problems. It has been one

fiasco after the other. Plus some of the faces rising

through the party ranks. But first, let's meet our guests

this week. We have the Lib Dem MP Simon Wright for Norwich South, and

the Labour MP for Luton cell. Gavin, it is your hometown I would like to

start with. In March, in 2009, the homecoming parade of the Royal

Anglian is, there was a protest by a handful of Islamic extremists.

Following that, the English Defence League was formed, headed up by

Tommy Robinson, who this week explained why he was leaving the far

right organisation. What I want to do now is be in control of myself. I

would do would have been shouted down for four and a half years as a

racist and extremist, usually to do with what other people have been

doing. I want to be in control of myself. When I seasoned bean, it is

me. What will it mean to the people of

Luton that Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll are now leaving? I think it

is in their word extremely positive that they have chosen to acknowledge

the pain they have cause to my hometown. We have faced an enormous

amount of negative publicity because of what they have done. Financially,

the implications have been massive, policing costs in the millions

because of their violent street protests. I hope this is a step in

the right direction, and also that they can find a route through

whereby they can denounce the extremism of their organisation.

Simon Wright, there have been UDR marches in Norwich two. Are you

concerned about where that far right element will go now? Yes, they did

visit Norwich. They were outnumbered ten to one by counter protest is.

Gavin is right, this comes at enormous cost whenever they have a

protest. I think Tommy Robinson has admitted that those protests had

very little effect anyway. What happens now is a matter of great

concern. If what happens is a national organisation splinters into

a number of regionals acts that make go below the line, off the radar,

that will be difficult to police. We have seen the English Defence League

fragment recently anyway, becoming harder to manage, and I suspect some

of the leaders' decisions to get out at this stage is related to that.

Let's move on to the changing face of our schools. The flagship Tory

policy in education has been establishing thousands of

academies, schools that are free from local authority control and

funded directly from central government. Here in the east, about

one in every six of our schools is an academy, giving us around 575,

but it is a number that is going up all the time. Many of the newest

academies have sponsors. They are supposed to drive up standards, but

the academic performance of these schools is lower than average, and

there are now calls for the government to decent thing about it.

Arriving at the Basildon Lower Academy, parents attending its

opening evening. The Basildon academies were formed in 2009

following the merger of two secondary schools. Under Labour's

Academy programme, it was designed to turn failing schools around. I've

not had any problems with the school. I know plenty of parents who

have, but I am under the impression that if a child wants to learn, they

will learn, so I will give the school the benefit of the doubt. It

hasn't had very good press, but my daughter has come through, so swings

and roundabouts. For me, it is about what they have got to offer, and if

they have ironed out the previous problems. We will go from there. But

academies have had more than their fair share of problems. There have

been several heads in four short years, and the last one, who was

praised by inspectors, resigned in a dispute with the sponsor and

governors over how to run the school. The academies have been in

special measures since March 2012 will stop. A former teacher who

doesn't want to be identified believe children are being let down.

Where do you go if you know your leadership is inadequate? Where can

you go in an Academy system? Who can you speak to? The chair of governors

is employed by the sponsor. We have a very unusual situation at the

Basildon academies, where the chairman of governors is a paid

employee. No one from the Academy good comment, but a statement from

the chair of governors said: Basildon's problems are mirrored in

Thetford, where the Academy replaced to schools rated as good or

satisfactory in every department. Since it was set up in 2010, there

has been a succession of principles. It has caused a lot of problems with

people not knowing who is in control. There have been a lot of

teachers leaving. Just last year, my youngest daughter had three

different maths teachers in the space of a year. Last year, there

were also three different heads of six form. And the school is in

special measures. Yes, without even mentioning special measures. First

of all, failing its Ofsted report, and then getting a damning HMI

report, saying its recovery plan was inadequate, and it needs to step up

a gear. Now, the new trust that has taken over here intends to change

all that. You got me as the principal, and I believe I've got

the necessary skills and drive to get the parents, staff, students

behind the Academy. Pupils have started classes in the new £19

million building in the last few weeks. Ofsted, who criticised the

sponsors of this Academy, its leadership and its teaching, are

expected back at any moment. It is going to take is at least a year to

get out of special measures here. The results this summer were so

poor, we have such a lot of work to do. It is not easy, and it is not

overnight. However, we should see a good difference in a year, and in

three years, I am hoping to be outstanding, and for Ofsted to

tellers that. And ambition reflecting the first set of sponsors

here, who have now gone. The same cannot be said for Basildon. I feel

completely let down by everyone who said they recognise there is a

problem at Basildon, from Ofsted to Michael Gove. Everyone has said

there is a problem, no one has said they are coming to help.

We will keep an eye on the results of that Ofsted inspection at

Basildon Lower Academy. Earlier this week, I spoke to education Minister

and Norbert Empey Elizabeth Truss, whose constituency includes Thetford

and its Academy. How can governors be independent, I asked, if the

chair is implied by the sponsor? The governors are independent, and if

they are not doing a good job, if the sponsor is not doing a good job

on the school is not improving fast enough, the Secretary of State, the

Department for Education, takes action. In my constituency, the

Thetford Academy, the results had improved, but Ofsted found that the

school had not improved enough. A new sponsor was put in, the

Inspiration Trust. They are now doing a fantastic job in a great new

building, and delivering the education for students in Thetford.

If the situation is not good enough, the government will

intervene, but in general, we are finding that academies do perform

better than their equivalents in the maintained sector. You mentioned the

excellent leadership, and that is the point, isn't it? The school

itself in Thetford fail. It did not turn the Academy around. Isn't it

down to the success and quality of the headteacher? Well, of course the

headteacher is very important. The quality of teaching is the most

important factor in whether or not a schoolboy forms for its students.

What happened in Thetford is, results did improve from its

predecessors, but they did not improve enough, and Ofsted found

that the education still was not good enough, which is why the

sponsor was replaced with a new sponsor, the Inspiration Trust. That

shows the system is working and the sponsored academies improve

results. They were not improved enough, so a new sponsor was found,

a new principle put in place. For years and years, the town of Bedford

had been underserved by its high schools, that were not delivering

results. —— Thetford. You say you are seeing a turnaround, but let's

take Basildon. They have been in special measures for 19 months. We

have evidence that on the whole, on average, sponsored academies perform

better than their predecessors school 's, and than maintained

schools in a similar position. We are dealing with difficult

circumstances in many of these cases, where there had been years of

underperformance, but sponsored academies like Thetford, like the

Nicholas Hammond Academy in Swaffham are the best way of getting out of

those circumstances. Now, there are cases where perhaps things do not

work out, where there may be a problem, in which case, the

Department for Education looks at that very seriously and intervenes,

but we are following up a situation where some schools have been allowed

to languish for 20 or 30 years or more, and that is a difficult

situation to turn around. What we know is, sponsored academy status is

helping those schools get out of that situation. 19 months in special

measures for Basildon. Various supposed to be a cut after two

years. What happens then? The Department for Education looks at

the situation in the sponsored academy and can intervene, so I have

given you the example of Thetford, a case in my constituency, and I know

about, where there was specific intervention by the relevant

minister to put in place a new sponsor. What we know is, good

schools are where there are good teachers, good teachers need good

leadership, and a good sponsor to support the headteacher to get the

best out of students in that school. Last year, there was a £1 billion

overspend on the academies programme. Some might say this is a

rather expensive mistake. It is not an expensive mistake. It is all

about money following the child, making sure that parents and

children have a choice of good schools. We have introduced over

3000 academies, free schools, studio schools, UTCs, which are vastly

changing the education landscape. Parents are delighted by the level

of choice they have. Thank you very much.

Simon, UR a former maths teacher. Isn't the success of a school down

to the teachers, and ultimately be had? I think the most effective

difference that can be made into classrooms is having the best

teachers there, and we know we have the best generation of teachers

there has ever been. We need strongly the ship in schools, and

that is for the head and the governing body to make sure that an

ethos of learning is developed and fostered within the school, and the

best teachers are attracted. Sponsored academies can have an

important role to play. If a school wants to go down the Academy route

and a strong sponsor comes in which can provide a lot of external

scrutiny and support, they can bring a lot to the school, and while it is

true that many schools that have become sponsored academies have

underperformed to start with and found it difficult to become great

schools, nonetheless, the trend of improvement is positive, and

sponsored academies are outperforming the rest of the

sector. Gavin, would let Labour 's return go's Academy to local

authority control? Where schools are succeeding, we don't think they will

change the structure, but we won't extend the programme. We think that

is the right place to be. The last Labour Academy programme to failing

schools, those that were underperforming, and put in place

decent leadership. There are a couple in my constituency. What has

happened since this government has come to power...

Basildon was one of those, wasn't it?

Exactly my point. Since the coalition has come to power, all the

work has gone into ideology, saying everything must be an academy. Eyes

are taken up the underperforming schools, and we now have to go in

and put in mitigating measures. What would Labour do? Let's be clear.

Where schools are succeeding, we don't care about structure, but we

don't believe that's re—schools, where you are bringing in an

oversupply of capacity such as in Luton, is the right way to go.

Simon, you were saying that they could sponsor and good leadership

can really do wonders for his school. What about a bad sponsor? It

doesn't work then. Academies are accountable just as all schools are,

both to Ofsted, and... But we heard that teachers say,

where do you go when something goes wrong? True, which is why free

schools are also accountable to the Department for Education. There is a

reciprocal funding agreement, and Michael Gove can act as Secretary of

State when a school is underperforming. Isn't the point

that Michael Gove does not want to act in those places? He has decided

the policy, and he has decided the only route is free schools and

academies. He wants every school to be like that, and you see shocking

complacency such as with Liz truss. Clearly there is an issue, and the

Department is not responding to it because of their ideology. Liz truss

was telling me that she brings the model of sponsors paying the chair

of governors is absolutely fine. Do you agree, Simon? It is a slightly

unusual setup. I would say many schools have problems in attracting

the very best governors. Ultimately, it should be down to schools. They

have to be independent, surely? Given the independence of strong

leadership to the governors, it should be down to schools to make

their own decisions about how to get the best people providing the

governors, and Ofsted also recognise the importance of school governance,

which is why under their revised inspection framework, they take the

governance very seriously. Gavin, here is a quote. "Today, hardly

anyone thinks local authorities should directly run schools." Whose

works? You tell me. Stephen Twigg. What role does local authority have

in schools? I personally think every school should be a great school, and

I also think the country head of system that produced me and many

others is a real good system to be at. # comprehensive. In Luton, the

only way to get capacity was to get a free school. We had to create an

arm's—length body to get funding. That cannot be right. We have to

leave it there. Westminster has been gripped by

election fever all week. There has been lots of preening, mass urging

of egos, and of course, I am talking about the Westminster dog of the

year awards. Several of our MPs entered their dogs for the title.

The winner was Noodle. He is owned by Alan Duncan. It was a brief

distraction from the other big election next week, choosing a new

deputy speaker to replace Nigel Evans. There are seven candidates,

five from this region. Let's hear from them.

I believe in the sovereignty of Parliament. I think politicians are

a much maligned class, and I want to be part of the journey as we restore

the prestige of Parliament as it was when I entered the place in 1993.

Have you ever been in the boardroom where there is major disagreement?

I'd chair a board. I understand that. Have you ever been in a

council meeting where there is major disagreement? I have chaired those

too. I think my personality is strong enough to stop you either go

into Parliament to get a ministerial career or to go down this avenue. I

am fascinated by the traditions and processes of Parliament, and it is

something I have always had my eye on.

This job is at the heart of the management of Parliament. Whoever

gets it will work alongside the speaker to run Parliament. It is one

of the oldest offices, and I believe it requires someone with the right

skill set, someone who is competent and then get on with colleagues.

This is not an election about personality. It is an election for

who is in the best position to do the job, the best job for the smooth

running of the House of Commons. But it helps if you get on. It does and

it doesn't. The history of politics is littered with people who have

done a great job working together even though they don't get on.

Simon Burns famously made that disparaging comments about speaker

John Bercow, which included the words sanctimonious and dwarf will

stop if you become deputy speaker, you are no longer allowed to take

part in Commons debate, unless you are chairing them, or question

ministers in public. We now come to a debate on fishing

policy. One person you should know all about the job is the MP for

saffron Walden, Sir Alan Hazlehurst, who was deputy speaker

for 13 years before standing down in 2010. It is a Christie just job, and

a mark of confidence if you are the one who is chosen. —— prestigious.

People on all sides of the house believing your integrity,

impartiality, and basically they like you. Why do you think there are

so many candidates from the East? I don't know. It doesn't personally

appealed to me. I like going into Parliament and standing up and

making points on behalf of my constituents. You can't do that in

that role. We need a referee, but I would rather be on the pitch

playing. It is an important role, isn't it, Simon? They're actually

hasn't been a Lib Dem speaker since 1920. No, that is right. It is a

shame there is no candidate this time, but it means I have the

freedom of being a floating voter in this. I haven't quite decided who I

will vote for, but it won't been a teen diaries, I have to say, on the

basis that I am happy with their on the backbenches. —— Mick Deane

lorries. When she makes a speech is about how will it be a we will see

get the job on Wednesday. There have been a number of winners

and losers in the reshuffle. Who is in, who is out? Here it comes.

It started with Simon Burns and Chloe Smith, stepping down ahead of

the B shovel. I want to do more work with my constituents, because that

is what I am most passionate about, and I think it is rather important

to remember who put you in a job. Attempting to look casual, George

Osborne's former chief of staff Matt Rand cock left Downing Street with a

promotion to Minister of State for skilled and enterprise, and a

delighted shade —ish Bara returns the government that the justice

minister. I am delighted. Clearly it is a surprise, but I am very much

looking forward to my new role. Good news to four Patrick O'Flynn, who

will lead you get's candidates in the East for the forthcoming

European elections. And a tribute to the former foreign affairs Minister

Alistair Burt, who lost his job this week. He is a very significant loss

to the government, and in all my dealings with them on the Middle

East, I admire both his skill, intellect, courtesy and his

consistently courteous approach. Kind words therefore Alistair Burt.

We have saved the best to last. In Labour's reshuffle, , you have moved

from DEFRA to Shadow Minister International development. Why you

looking forward to it? Yes, delighted, and when you get the

phone call — except when it cuts out! —, it is a fantastic moment.

One of the reasons there has been so much conservative blood on the

carpet is because you Lib Dems are taking all the ministerial roles,

that is what the Tories say. Brilliance. Great for us. We're

trying to build a stronger economy, a fairer society. The more of us,

the better. Your dream job in Parliament, gentlemen. What would it

be? I must say Shadow Minister International development ! MP for

Norwich South ! Oh, come on ! You can throw caution to the wind. I am

just getting enjoying getting stuck in on in by Roman 's, jobs, and I am

very happy with what I'm doing. Thank you both very much indeed for

joining us. That is all for now. Next week, we will look at the

future of our biofuel industry in the light of new moves in Europe to

limit food grown for fuel. Join us the light of new moves in Europe to

and these tactics were plain wrong. That is all we have time for. Back

ministerial team this week with That is all we have time for. Back

commentators calling it the purge of the Blairites, but one poor lamb who

fell victim to this perch was Diane Abbott, not somebody who worshipped

at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on the backbenches means she can pursue

other interests such as attending the Cheltenham literary Festival,

and where she joins us now. Welcome. Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

think the thing that did it for Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

was me coming out on Syria. This was Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

a purge of the Blairites, how did you become collateral damage? I

a purge of the Blairites, how did no idea but the fact that I was

a purge of the Blairites, how did one member of the front bench to go

public about my concerns on Syria probably tipped my enemies in the

party machinery over the edge. But he went your way on Syria, in the

end he agreed with your line on Syria so why would that be for

dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke

dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,

which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,

forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like

people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I

think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People

increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People

I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr

Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his

best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour

Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour

will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be

loyal? However, I want to join in the debate. You're going to be

loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both in public and private when others

were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to

were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly

around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy

with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,

with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are

very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The

issue of free schools, they are to see how this all plays out. The

thing. But diminishing the role to see how this all plays out. The

local authorities is another. There need strong local authorities. I'm

local authorities is another. There sure Tristram will be aware of that.

As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories

have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms

of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would

you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would

haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and

see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the

papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for

Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor

Mayor of London? I have no plans to of London. No plans. That's what

Michael his I will Tyne used to of London. No plans. That's what

me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the

same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know

going for it. Everybody knows you're going for it. Just fess up to your

old mate! ! I have no plans to run. If you did run, who would be, what

would be your biggest threat other than yourself? I think there's a lot

of very talented candidates, David They are all talented. I would have

to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of

getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of

getting the taxi drivers' vote? most loyal viewers of This Week

getting the taxi drivers' vote? were taxi drivers and their wives.

I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if

you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love

This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love

you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy

chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is

what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this

something else in politics. She wanted to do something serious.

something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a

something else in politics. She position but taken it extremely

serious and was committed to the issues. I'm quite disappointed for

her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a thing. You just mentioned about

London mayor, did Diane not ask thing. You just mentioned about

Someone who's an eminent person thing. You just mentioned about

this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's

missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy

man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.

So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.

We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,

you're not insured for. That thanks Does she have a chance of being

Mayor of London? She's very well known as Michael pointed out. That

is important. People who are outside known as Michael pointed out. That

the party fold have traditionally done well in the mayoral election.

The job of being a London mayor done well in the mayoral election.

running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.

There may be problems with her running? That was a transparent

There may be problems with her for it. She's potentially a very

compelling Coll ticks. People have left-winger but she's quite tough

and conservative. Michael Gove said he had fallen in love with Diane

which That's one vote he has. What do you think? I thing about Diane

Abbott is she has a fantastic way of connecting. She has a really good

way of connecting wi people. She would be a very strong candidate in

candidate. It will probably be a Labour win next time. Depends, if

Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger

for Labour that Diane is the big personality liked by the party

primary but isn't necessarily a personality liked by the party

in come the London general election? That's true. London is traditionally

a Labour city. But Boris managed to win as an outsider. There are big

dangers for Labour with that. I think, as I said before, somebody

who seems a bit independent from their own party machinery tend to do

We've only had mayors so far that were independent? Indeed. And how

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing

than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing

stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by

This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those

people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into

coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there

coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred

areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the

Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the

immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went

down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home

somebody there to put a shield on purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg

has won the argument against the left, Vince Cable on the economy,

away day in July, briefings say DrCable's been put in his box. He's

won the argument on economic policy against the left. When it comes

won the argument on economic policy the touchstone issue in the Home

Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The

Guardian. This is important for something else going on which is

that Nick Clegg has to keep his parliamentary party happy. That

involves giving them ministerial jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats

losing their jobs, Michael Moore, because vacancies have to be created

for number people to come in. By Liberal Democrat MPs will have been

on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on

to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the

parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the

will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We

moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord

Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state

involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media

interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier

he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed

Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I

think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that

Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is

Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't

sign up, the Royal charter will to the press industry, if you don't

ahead. I cannot control the Labour to the press industry, if you don't

industry is wind the clock back to the press industry, if you don't

what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,

Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory

regulation. Maria Miller says you statutory legislation but if you

don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing

the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.

Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't

work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was

going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers

now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route

and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will

and to judicial review on what the it to strains Bowring where freedom

of the press is enshrined. They it to strains Bowring where freedom

fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in

that. The big political question going forward is which of the party

leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press

regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband

the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian

Leveson. You appoint a judge who shouldn't be surprised with what you

got in the Leveson report? I big chunk of press will look at David

Cameron saying, you were the guy who intended what will happen. If he had

have appointed Brian Leveson. If they face more punitive fines over

Labour ale cases they take that they face more punitive fines over

Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to

suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of

suspend that. We must never come out Churchill was behind it. He was

indeed. But it is actually a major constitutional issue whether you

regulate the press or not. There was constitutional issue whether you

a lot of ill feeling that this Marie ya miller statement was snubbing out

on Friday afternoon. Somebody said freedom of the press too important

to sneak out on afully afternoon. The whole subject should be treated

with respect. We've run out of time. I'll be back next Sunday with the

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles at our usual time of 11.00am. If