Browse content similar to 19/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence, | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects. | :00:44. | :00:55. | |
With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election, | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live. | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket, | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
unless hospitals are given more cash this year. | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
The chief executive of NHS Providers joins me live. | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
Here, border reaction from Berwick to the possibility of | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
And what is the future for the tens of thousands of | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
Europeans living and working in the Northeast? | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking | :01:29. | :01:38. | |
to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
from his party's spring conference in York. | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
With me here in the studio, throughout the programme, | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
three of the country's top political commentators: | :01:48. | :01:49. | |
Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp. | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up. | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU, | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
budget measure just one week after announcing it. | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week | :02:22. | :02:23. | |
Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First | :02:24. | :02:40. | |
Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise. | :02:41. | :02:42. | |
She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK | :02:43. | :02:44. | |
By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
future will be decided, not just by me, the | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
Scottish Government, or the | :02:52. | :02:52. | |
SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland. | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject | :02:56. | :03:05. | |
amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned | :03:09. | :03:22. | |
attempts to change it and it becomes law. | :03:23. | :03:24. | |
But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected. | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon. | :03:32. | :03:33. | |
We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the | :03:34. | :03:50. | |
We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling | :03:51. | :03:52. | |
the planned rise in National Insurance for | :03:53. | :04:03. | |
the self-employed announced the budget. | :04:04. | :04:04. | |
It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon. | :04:05. | :04:06. | |
The trend towards greater self-employment does create a | :04:07. | :04:08. | |
We will bring forward further proposals | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here. | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the | :04:26. | :04:34. | |
Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending | :04:35. | :04:36. | |
But that's not what the Prime Minister | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a | :04:40. | :04:46. | |
We should be working together, not pulling apart. | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
We should be working together to get that | :04:51. | :04:52. | |
right deal for Scotland, that | :04:53. | :04:54. | |
So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time. | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
Friday and time for the faithful to gather. | :05:03. | :05:04. | |
SNP activists at their spring conference | :05:05. | :05:06. | |
Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister | :05:07. | :05:17. | |
promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain. | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
Evening Standard and, you know, with so many | :05:30. | :05:31. | |
big issues in our world what | :05:32. | :05:33. | |
good analysis, great news journalism. | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
It's a really important time for good journalism that The | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
Evening Standard is going to provide. | :05:44. | :05:45. | |
There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals | :05:46. | :05:52. | |
Under my proposals we keep the Barnett | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament. | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government, | :06:09. | :06:25. | |
Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with | :06:34. | :06:41. | |
the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable. | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on. | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said, | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead, | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
election. I don't think she has thought about how you would | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do. | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as | :11:00. | :11:01. | |
commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because | :11:11. | :11:12. | |
she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections. | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall | :11:45. | :11:46. | |
see. So if Theresa May did go | :11:47. | :11:47. | |
for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns | :11:48. | :11:50. | |
and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we | :11:51. | :12:01. | |
have just been talking about, executed one of the most | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing | :12:17. | :12:18. | |
ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So, | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
want this government to be in power so of course if there is an | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to | :13:25. | :13:26. | |
bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election? | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
opportunity to put that case to the British people. | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all | :14:07. | :14:14. | |
but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one? | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called. | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that, | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have. | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in | :17:20. | :17:26. | |
case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally, | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17 | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn? | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years. | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds, | :18:51. | :18:59. | |
where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us. | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring | :19:24. | :19:25. | |
conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps | :19:29. | :19:36. | |
Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not | :19:43. | :19:50. | |
saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit, | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, | :20:41. | :20:49. | |
Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU, | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing | :22:08. | :22:15. | |
so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not | :22:34. | :22:42. | |
challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in | :23:36. | :23:43. | |
Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted | :23:51. | :23:59. | |
for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky, | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the | :24:38. | :24:49. | |
ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we | :24:59. | :25:07. | |
are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the | :25:24. | :25:35. | |
British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always | :26:44. | :26:51. | |
welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or | :27:01. | :27:07. | |
spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us. | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
warning the health service needs more money to help it meet | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
no immediate relief, and today the head of | :28:11. | :28:12. | |
the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds | :28:13. | :28:13. | |
of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
care and planned operations, unless the Government | :28:17. | :28:18. | |
Warnings over funding are not exactly new. | :28:19. | :28:26. | |
Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens, | :28:27. | :28:28. | |
published his plan for the future of the health service. | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020. | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra, | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
and that the health service could account for the rest by making | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
The Government says it's given the health service more than what it | :28:49. | :28:56. | |
asked for, and that NHS in England will have received | :28:57. | :28:58. | |
That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
have been cut, putting pressure on the front line. | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts | :29:19. | :29:20. | |
from the Government, the NHS is likely to record | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being | :29:29. | :29:30. | |
This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care | :29:31. | :29:38. | |
but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
Providers in England, Chris Hopson. | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra | :29:57. | :30:03. | |
money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18 | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020. | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22 | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25 | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years? | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for. | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you. | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900 | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5 | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
important we should make an important distinction about the NHS | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution, | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36 | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25 | :35:02. | :35:09. | |
billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts | :35:55. | :36:06. | |
which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous | :36:07. | :36:08. | |
organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales. | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
Have you raised that with the government? | :36:11. | :36:10. | |
Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard | :36:11. | :36:23. | |
somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in | :36:44. | :36:51. | |
a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I | :36:52. | :36:53. | |
have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community, | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There | :37:21. | :37:27. | |
was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having | :37:35. | :37:37. | |
to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication, | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me. | :38:46. | :38:47. | |
It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
Hello and an extremely warm welcome to your local part of the show. | :38:53. | :39:05. | |
Just, of course, for the north-east and Cumbria. | :39:06. | :39:07. | |
On the programme this week, as the Brexit bill is passed | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
by Parliament, what does the future hold for Europeans | :39:11. | :39:12. | |
We meet migrants from Poland and Romania who | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
And in the studio talking about that and the rest | :39:18. | :39:26. | |
of the news this week, the | :39:27. | :39:27. | |
Labour MP for Washington and Sunderland West, Sharon Hodgson, | :39:28. | :39:29. | |
and the businessman and mayoral candidate | :39:30. | :39:31. | |
Let's start with Scotland and the chances of a | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
Sharon Hodgson, the Prime Minister says no to a referendum, certainly | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
at this point, is that position sustainable? | :39:39. | :39:40. | |
Well, I think so, and she said no, not until we are the | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
other side of Brexit and I think that is fair. | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
It was only two and a half years ago when the Scottish | :39:48. | :39:49. | |
people made their choice and the choice was | :39:50. | :39:51. | |
to remain as part of the | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
And that was what the referendum for the EU looming, and so the | :39:58. | :40:07. | |
people did know the referendum for the EU was coming up, nobody knew | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
how that would go and they made the choice that nevertheless | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
they wanted to be part of a United Kingdom. | :40:15. | :40:16. | |
You know, the people in Scotland have | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
got enough going on with being like the rest of us and having to deal | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
with the Brexit and it is divisive and not necessary. | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
Jeremy Middleton, the problem is, isn't this what the | :40:27. | :40:28. | |
They raised the prospects for a referendum and it looked like | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
it has been frustrated by a Conservative Government. | :40:33. | :40:34. | |
I think that is why they raised it, to try | :40:35. | :40:36. | |
We voted as one country, the decision has been taken | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
and I do not think you can take one individual part and say, we do not | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
If you look across the north-east, sure, | :40:46. | :40:47. | |
Newcastle voted to remain as well, Is it going to open up | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
Why not let them have their say and find out? | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
I think they will have a chance to have their say | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
but they need to make a real choice and that will be after Brexit has | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
become clear and the implications are and they will have to decide if | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
I hope they stay but at least they will be | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
making it on the basis of a | :41:13. | :41:14. | |
clear understanding of what options are open to them. | :41:15. | :41:16. | |
Well, how events unfold will be closely | :41:17. | :41:19. | |
watched, of course,in border communities across Cumbria and the | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
As I've been to Berwick to see what people there make the | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
After all, it was less than three years ago. | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
Apparently it once in a generation vote, except now, there is a push | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
That means people in Berwick are again considering | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
the potential impact of living on an international border. | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
There is already division on the high street | :41:42. | :41:43. | |
about the justification for another referendum. | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
Where we are at, it is not a pretty good idea. | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
I think it will cost far too much and I think | :41:50. | :41:51. | |
I think it probably will happen, don't you? | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
The latest survey is saying the Scottish people do not | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
Nicola is just angling for more power. | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
And then we'll be Tories for the rest of our life. | :42:05. | :42:20. | |
But of course a new vote would churn up | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
cross-border issues many thought were settled. | :42:24. | :42:24. | |
Given another referendum, some of the arguments from 2014 will be | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
The potential disruption to people's lives of | :42:32. | :42:33. | |
having a border here, the possible economic competition | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
But there would be another distinctive factor. | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
The potential that this side of the border could have a very | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
There is a chance Scotland's may end up either in the EU or the | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
European free trade agreement, whereas you end up with the north of | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
England out after Brexit and that poses real difficulties for | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
policymakers in the North with free trade and things to do with tariffs, | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
all of these kind of issues to do with immigration and workforces. | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
But there is now a political battle over | :43:05. | :43:05. | |
whether or when a referendum could take place. | :43:06. | :43:14. | |
The PM has blocked it for now, quite right, say Conservatives | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
I think it's only three years since the last | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
It was a decisive decision by the Scottish people. | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
I think that decision should be respected. | :43:24. | :43:25. | |
We actually find the SNP have been on the losing side of two | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
referendums and they just don't seem to be willing to accept the result. | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
But the Carlisle MP's Scottish neighbour says | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
Northern England has nothing to fear from Scottish independence. | :43:36. | :43:37. | |
Our relationship is based on social ties, family ties, cultural ties, | :43:38. | :43:44. | |
economic ties, we like football, we like a pint. | :43:45. | :43:46. | |
We get on with each other. All of those things will be exactly | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
But what the politicians in this place will try | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
and kid us on about is our ties rely on their ties, which they have | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
Of course this hasn't always been a peaceful | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
border and now looks like | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
tensions over its status could be growing again. | :44:09. | :44:10. | |
Jeremy Middleton, let's deal with perhaps the potential | :44:11. | :44:12. | |
impact on us of any referendum on independence. | :44:13. | :44:14. | |
There is no independence would be bad for | :44:15. | :44:16. | |
Instead the Scots will have to stand on their own | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
moment many would argue they are much more | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
powerful than the north of | :44:24. | :44:24. | |
Well, it depends what sort of deal happens in the event | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
The Scots have been subsidised by the rest of | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
You have more than ?1000 per head of public expenditure | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
spent on everybody in Scotland than is spent on the north-east of | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
This has basically been bribery to encourage them to the | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
I do not think it is fair now and it ought to be addressed anyway. | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
In the event of independence then it will | :44:54. | :44:55. | |
become absolutely essential the north-east and rest | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
a fair deal, so we are dealt with on a regular and equal and fair | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
Lots of Scots disagree that they get a great deal | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
Definitely in terms of public expenditure | :45:09. | :45:10. | |
From that point of view would have nothing to fear | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
We have other things to worry about because then it is a question | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
about how they spend the money they have. | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
At the moment they use the economic power often to bribe and attract | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
We know they will change the taxation plan. | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
As an independent country they will be entitled to do | :45:29. | :45:36. | |
that but we will see the potential they will use | :45:37. | :45:38. | |
passengers away from the north of England. | :45:39. | :45:46. | |
It will not affect things Heathrow and Manchester but | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
It will have all sorts of potentially negative implications, | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
The only people who will really enjoy it will | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
be the media who will sell a lot of newspapers | :45:57. | :45:58. | |
and the politicians will | :45:59. | :45:59. | |
Sharon Hodgson, there is a lot of Labour supporters | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
who might be sympathetic with one of our contributors in Berwick who | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
might want to escape perpetual Conservative Government. | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
Why is Labour so adamant it would be bad for Scotland | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
Because we believe in the United Kingdom. | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
I think Nicola Sturgeon, personally, should get on with | :46:19. | :46:27. | |
She is First Minister, terrible cuts in | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
As we said, it will not be bad news for | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
A lot of people in the north-east will say let the | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
Scots have their way, let them go and we can concentrate | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
on developing our economy without them on the | :46:49. | :46:50. | |
border with all these extra powers they have got. | :46:51. | :46:52. | |
We have lots of Labour politicians in the | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
north-east across councils and in Parliament and we do get on with | :46:59. | :47:01. | |
running the north-east and taking the north-east's voice to London. | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
Some might say Edinburgh is closer to the north-east than Scotland. | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
big distraction to us in the north-east for what we need to do | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
Will the Government not have a problem here? | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
Because if we come together referendum, the | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
argument about the Brexit that you do not need a hard border | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
in Ireland and you can carry on free trade beyond | :47:29. | :47:30. | |
borders, those are exactly the arguments for allowing Scottish | :47:31. | :47:32. | |
Well, if they choose independence there will | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
But I think and hope the Scots will realise it | :47:37. | :47:49. | |
Would there need to be a hard border? | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
I think there is a slight danger of a hard | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
border because if you have different policies, for example, on | :47:59. | :48:00. | |
immigration then how will you enforce those | :48:01. | :48:02. | |
It is difficult enough in Northern Ireland but it is much | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
harder in Scotland and certainly will have | :48:07. | :48:07. | |
a bigger impact on us in the | :48:08. | :48:09. | |
Sharon Hodgson, we heard the point about how we are represented, rather | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
than tether the Scots to us, wouldn't it be nice to hear from | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
Labour are some ideas about how we empower the North a lot more? | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
We have heard virtually nothing so far. | :48:22. | :48:22. | |
Other than opposition, and a scrapping of the mayor in the | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
north-east that might have been a counterpoint. | :48:26. | :48:27. | |
With regard to devolution, I mean, I think we have | :48:28. | :48:29. | |
Obviously, Teesside are going to wait and get | :48:30. | :48:39. | |
a mayor, we have to wait and see what happens in Manchester and the | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
Wait and see, wait and see, and then we | :48:44. | :48:46. | |
are falling further and further behind. | :48:47. | :48:48. | |
The deal that was on the table, and I wasn't around the table | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
but I understand it wasn't very good, I think that was the big | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
sticking point and I think Manchester seems to be getting a | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
If they make a great success of that then perhaps | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
because I know he is obviously very interested. | :49:01. | :49:08. | |
I think Manchester has shown the way. | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
The most important thing is to start. | :49:12. | :49:13. | |
There was an offer of money, power, it was a starting | :49:14. | :49:15. | |
The real problem is lots of parts of the | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
country are moving ahead and we are not. | :49:20. | :49:21. | |
Now, Parliament this week gave Brexit the | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
A big moment for the whole country and particularly for | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
the tens of thousands of Europeans who came to the north-east and | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
Cumbria to work and have now settled here. | :49:33. | :49:33. | |
Labour says the Government should immediately guarantee their | :49:34. | :49:35. | |
rights to remain in the UK but that does seem unlikely at this stage. | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
So how are they dealing with the uncertainty? | :49:40. | :49:41. | |
He grew up in Poznan, he lives in Darlington | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
And despite the uncertainty EU nationals | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
face at the moment this is not a somewhat extreme preparation | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
in case he suddenly forced to return to | :49:57. | :49:58. | |
I am training to achieve our, I can say target? | :49:59. | :50:10. | |
We will row from my home town in Poland to London which takes | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
for us approximately between 25 and 28 days. | :50:14. | :50:15. | |
Despite the Government's refusal to guarantee EU citizens the right | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
to stay in the UK, Christoph sees his 1600 mile adventure from Poland | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
to England as a strictly one-way trip. | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
When I reached London I felt somewhat like I have come back home. | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
I do not feel any pressure at the moment, nobody has told me | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
It will probably come as no surprise that Poland is the dominant | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
EU nationality in our region, with an estimated 3000 Poles living | :50:44. | :50:45. | |
Durham and Newcastle have got the greatest variety of EU | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
communities and there are also a large number of | :50:50. | :50:51. | |
Romanians living in the region in places | :50:52. | :50:53. | |
like Sunderland, Stockton and | :50:54. | :50:54. | |
And many of those Romanians on Teesside are deeply | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
The anxiety and stress is quite a lot. | :51:02. | :51:09. | |
The children, they can have questions | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
Especially to those who were born here in the UK. | :51:13. | :51:23. | |
This shop owner and his wife are expecting | :51:24. | :51:25. | |
He says people in the community are already saving | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
Now is the problem for me and my family | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
because I am putting money in | :51:36. | :51:37. | |
I come to live here to stay here and | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
Pay the council, pay my tax, pay everything. | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
And the people now are a little bit stressed and | :51:50. | :52:01. | |
In Middlesbrough's Polish cafe the economic impact of Brexit | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
is already causing concern, perhaps more so | :52:06. | :52:07. | |
than any long-term worries about whether they will be allowed to stay | :52:08. | :52:10. | |
Prices have really increased sense of this | :52:11. | :52:12. | |
People feel, not only immigrants but also British people, | :52:13. | :52:21. | |
also feel unsure and less comfortable because of money. | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
It has been claimed the Government is using | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
Margaret says she understands why the Government hasn't guaranteed | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
It's just a little bit a part of the game, of | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
They are trying to use people as a playing | :52:38. | :52:43. | |
card, so if you give me something I give you something else. | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
Christoph's house is in Darlington but the | :52:49. | :52:50. | |
rowing machines at the Dolphin Centre may well feel like home for | :52:51. | :52:53. | |
But he hopes the ideals of friendship and the | :52:54. | :53:00. | |
qualities he is promoting through his epic adventure will be | :53:01. | :53:02. | |
understood by politicians on both sides of the channel. | :53:03. | :53:04. | |
Even if England will not be part of EU any | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
It doesn't make any difference for us, | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
we are still people, we are built the same, | :53:12. | :53:13. | |
two legs, two hands, one head, body, still the same. | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
Jeremy Middleton, you were a long-time | :53:17. | :53:17. | |
How do you feel about the Government so far | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
giving no guarantees that | :53:22. | :53:22. | |
migrants, like we have seen there, about their future status in the UK? | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
The Government has made it perfectly clear and quite rightly all EU | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
citizens currently here are welcome to stay and they want them to stay. | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
There is no doubt that is the Government's position. | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
But the Government also has to bear in mind | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
there are 1 million British citizens in the EU and that also needs to be | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
The Government has made an offer that if we | :53:48. | :53:59. | |
guarantee of the EU citizens stay, will they please guarantee of | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
the British citizens can stay there and that offer has so far been | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
rejected from the EU because negotiations have not opened. | :54:09. | :54:10. | |
It is just incredible to think we would | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
ever try and take migrants out of the country. | :54:13. | :54:14. | |
I do not think for one second we will. | :54:15. | :54:16. | |
We might as well just guarantee them now. | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
Because we equally want to make sure the | :54:21. | :54:22. | |
British citizens who are in Europe have a similar guarantee. | :54:23. | :54:24. | |
That will be agreed, it should be agreed at that | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
That will be agreed, it should be agreed and it | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
I do not think we should encourage people who are EU | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
citizens to really worry they will be ejected, | :54:36. | :54:37. | |
Sharon Hodgson, as Margaret in the cafe understands, | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
You do not just throw in your hand all | :54:44. | :54:46. | |
at once, you've got to go through a process | :54:47. | :54:48. | |
to secure the position of UK nationals in Europe. | :54:49. | :54:50. | |
And I understand the point Jeremy is making, exactly that. | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
There is 1.2 million British citizens in Europe | :54:54. | :54:54. | |
and I think there is about 3.2 million European citizens here. | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
But it does feel like they are a bargaining | :54:58. | :54:59. | |
chip and that is why were so disappointed we did not get | :55:00. | :55:01. | |
the amendment on to the Article 50 bill because that would have been, | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
we say this is our red line, we are going to guarantee | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
on the face of the bill you will be | :55:09. | :55:15. | |
protected and can stay. Whether that would have undermined | :55:16. | :55:23. | |
the bargaining that went on, As we have seen in | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
that film people have settled here for ten years and had | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
children and their children have For them to feel that | :55:32. | :55:34. | |
uncertainty must A lot of your supporters might | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
wonder why Labour is making such a priority in the process | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
of Brexit on this particular issue, ahead of, perhaps, they might | :55:42. | :55:44. | |
suggest, free trade and jobs. Again, these are | :55:45. | :55:46. | |
people's lives and we equally have our 1.2 | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
million citizens in Europe What are we going to do | :55:53. | :55:54. | |
with all these pensioners? How would bring them | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
all home if they Jeremy, you're the | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
businessman, have the Conservatives got it right, | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
apparently prioritising immigration The impression is Theresa May would | :56:10. | :56:11. | |
rather control immigration and be out the single market | :56:12. | :56:23. | |
and Customs Uunion than be My understanding is | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
the Government undoubtedly want to have control over immigration | :56:27. | :56:34. | |
and that will have to be agreed one way or another and we | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
will be in a position to do that | :56:38. | :56:39. | |
when we're no longer the EU. Then we have to drive | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
through the logic, which is both us and the EU's interests to have | :56:45. | :56:47. | |
as much free trade as possible. When you bear in mind | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
the effort the EU has gone to to form free trade | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
agreements with lots of countries around the world, most recently | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
Canada, it must be a logical point that we reach at some stage | :56:59. | :57:01. | |
that we have a similar agreement with a big | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
country like the... Even if we won't except their | :57:05. | :57:06. | |
citizens coming freely? We undoubtedly will accept | :57:07. | :57:08. | |
their citizens who are living here currently, and our citizens will be | :57:09. | :57:15. | |
able to remain in Europe, as we've They will be some controls over | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
immigration but they will be the same controls | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
that will be applied to members of the EU | :57:22. | :57:23. | |
as Sharon Hodgson, Labour | :57:24. | :57:25. | |
still has not told us what it is going to do | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
about immigration, and yet the voters | :57:29. | :57:30. | |
in places like Sunderland were quite clear during the referendum | :57:31. | :57:32. | |
they wanted controls. And I have had a huge | :57:33. | :57:34. | |
listening exercise across my constituency, 500 | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
questionnaires back and two public meetings | :57:40. | :57:40. | |
and in each one of those and the | :57:41. | :57:43. | |
questionnaires it is clear people do want to see reform of immigration | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
and some controls, no matter how they voted, and that was very | :57:47. | :57:48. | |
interesting and we have heard that We will see what develops | :57:49. | :57:51. | |
in terms of policy. There has been plenty going on this | :57:52. | :57:59. | |
week, including a new blueprint for jobs, | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
investment in Middlesbrough. Here is David with that | :58:03. | :58:04. | |
and the rest of this week's Blyth Valley MP Ronnie Campbell will | :58:05. | :58:11. | |
lead a Commons debate next week on the closure of the cosmetics | :58:12. | :58:17. | |
and perfume factory. 400 staff are being told | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
their jobs will go. The Government is to | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
examine plans for a retail Park, 200 houses and a school | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
on the County Hall site in Morpeth. Northumberland County Council cannot | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
proceed with the plans until Middlesbrough Council has unveiled | :58:39. | :58:40. | |
its plans for ?600 million of Mayor Dave Budd says housing | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
and regeneration plans will see the Our own capital expenditure | :58:45. | :58:52. | |
is just over ?70 million. We expect that to bring | :58:53. | :59:03. | |
in well over ?600 million Of private | :59:04. | :59:05. | |
investment and so will you add those to give | :59:06. | :59:07. | |
this Finally, pregnant women | :59:08. | :59:08. | |
are being discriminated against in the workplace and suffering | :59:09. | :59:11. | |
unfair and unlawful treatment, | :59:12. | :59:13. | |
according to How big a problem is | :59:14. | :59:14. | |
it and what examples have you got of how | :59:15. | :59:25. | |
it is You would not think so in this | :59:26. | :59:27. | |
day and age, 100 years after women get the vote, | :59:28. | :59:36. | |
but 54000 women last year alone lost their jobs through feeling | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
they were forced out That is one in nine | :59:40. | :59:41. | |
women in the workforce. If that was in Parliament | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
that would be And as I said, 21 of my fellow women | :59:45. | :59:46. | |
MPs being forced out, we would be on the floor | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
of the house raising merry hell. If it is not good | :59:51. | :59:53. | |
enough in our workplace it is not good enough then | :59:54. | :59:55. | |
anybody's workplace. You know, the equality select | :59:56. | :59:57. | |
committee did a very good report, far and wide, select | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
committee all-party report, not political, presented | :00:01. | :00:03. | |
it to the Government you know, gave some warm words | :00:04. | :00:05. | |
out in January saying they would look at it, | :00:06. | :00:13. | |
but they haven't actually came up with any | :00:14. | :00:14. | |
action to do anything about it. I am in a dodgy position | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
here because I am a man and I I would never defend | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
discrimination in any way or putting stress | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
on pregnant women but can you have | :00:25. | :00:26. | |
an iota of sympathy for a small employer who has to deal with people | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
going on maternity leave etc and also requests for flexible | :00:31. | :00:39. | |
working when it is very hard on With small employers, | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
with all employers, but these things can be planned | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
for and you do have time while the employee is pregnant and also this | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
is why we have to have a huge cultural change because it always | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
falls on the woman and in society when we get more parental leave | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
and sharing of responsibility is the whole culture of women | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
being pregnant will take on a whole different slant and that will not be | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
seen, this person... It will not just be | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
about the negatives, it will be about the quality that woman has | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
as an employee that you have already The cost to employers | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
and business is I just want to ask | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
Jeremy Middleton, does this happen in your | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
experience in business? It certainly happens that you have | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
to deal with people who become pregnant and, | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
yes, it is a disruption, It would be a waste, | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
as Sharon pointed out, if The Government has said, | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
my understanding is, there should be zero tolerance of discrimination | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
against people was pregnant and I agree, even though it | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
can cause disruption. We'll have to leave it | :01:46. | :01:46. | |
there for this week. For now, back to Andrew | :01:47. | :01:48. | |
for the rest of the show. you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
to you. So, can George Osborne stay | :01:54. | :02:03. | |
on as a member of Parliament Will Conservative backbenchers force | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
a Government re-think And is Theresa May about to cap gas | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
and electricity prices? Whose idea was that first of all? | :02:10. | :02:23. | |
They are all questions for the Week Ahead to. | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
Let's start with the story that is too much fun to miss, on Friday it | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
was announced the former Chancellor would be the new editor of London's | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
Evening Standard newspaper, a position he will take up in mid-May | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
on a salary of ?200,000 for four days a week. | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
But Mr Osborne has said he will not be stepping down as MP | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
for Tatton in Cheshire, a job he's held since 2001, | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
Alongside these duties, he's also chairman of | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
While being committed to one day a week at Black Rock, | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
an American asset management firm - a part-time role that earns him | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
Then he's polishing his academic credentials, as a fellow | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
at the McCain Institute, an American thinktank, | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
And finally as a member of the Washington Speaker's Bureau, | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
he also earns his keep as an after-dinner speaker, banking | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
around ?750,000 since last summer. | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
So there you go. Nice little earners if you can get them. The problem, | :03:33. | :03:41. | |
though, is he has put second jobs on the agenda and lots of his fellow | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
MPs are not happy because they have got second jobs but not making that | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs on both sides actually are unhappy | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
about it exactly for those reasons. I find it a very interesting | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
appointment. We have got these people on the centre and centre | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
right of politics who have been used to power since 1997, they have been | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
on the airwaves today, Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
are all seeking other platforms now because power has moved elsewhere. | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
So Tony Blair is setting up this new foundation, Nick Clegg refused to | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair praised the appointment. They are | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
all searching for new platforms. They might have overestimated the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
degree to which this will be a huge influential platform. The standard | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
was very pro-Tory at the 2015 election but London voted Labour, it | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they elected Sadiq Khan. It might be | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
overestimating the degree to which this is a hugely influential paper. | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
But I can see why it attracts him as a platform when all these platforms | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
have disappeared, eg power and government. All of these people who | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
used to be in power are quietly getting together again, Mr Blair on | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
television this morning, George Osborne not only filling his bank | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
account but now in charge of London's most important newspaper, | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
Nick Clegg out today not saying Brexit was a done deal, waiting to | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
see what happens, even John Major was wheeled out again today in the | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
Mail on Sunday. They are all playing for position. I half expect David | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
Cameron to turn up as features editor on The Evening Standard. | :05:28. | :05:35. | |
Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg, did he not? I do not think this is | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
sustainable for George Osborne, I worked at The Evening Standard and I | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
was there for three years, I know what the hours are like for a humble | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
journalist, never mind the editor. If he thinks he can get at 4am | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
everyday to be in the offices at 5am to oversee the splash, manage | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
everything in the way and edited should he is in cloud cuckoo land. | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
What this says to people is there is a kind of feel of soft corruption | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
about public life here, where you see what you can get away with. He | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
thinks he can brazen this out and maybe he can but what kind of | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
message does that send to people about how seriously people take the | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
role of being an MP? He must have known. He applied for the job. The | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
Russian owner didn't approach him, he approached Lebedev, the | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
proprietor, for it. He must have calculated there would be some | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
kickback. I wonder if he realised there would be quite the kickback | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
there has been. I think that's probably right. This hasn't finished | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
yet, by the way, this will go on and on. How on earth does George Osborne | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
cover the budget in the autumn? Big budget, lots of physical changes and | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
tax rises to deal with the messages out of this week. You can see | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
already, Theresa May budget crashes. It could be worse. She's useless! | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
Or, worse than that, me, brilliant budget, terrible newspaper, I've | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
never buying it again. He has hoisted his own petard. He has not | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
bought it properly through. It's a something interesting about his own | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
future calculations, if he wants to stay on as an MP in 2020 and be | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
Prime Minister as he has or was wanted to be he has got to find a | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
new seat. How do you go into an association and say I should be an | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
MP, I can do it for at least four hours Purdy after editing The | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
Evening Standard, making a big speech and telling Black Rock how to | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
make a big profit. The feature pages have to be approved for the next day | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
and feature pages are aware the editor gets to make their mark. The | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
news is the news. The feature is what concerns you, what he is in | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
your bonnet. That defines the newspaper, doesn't it? It is not | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
over yet. Too much 101 on newspapers. And Haatheq at. | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
School funding, the consultation period ends, it has been a tricky | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
one for the government, some areas losing. I guess we are seeing this | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
through the prism of the National Insurance contributions now, it is a | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
small majority, if Tory MPs are unhappy she may not get her way. | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
Talking to backbench MPs who are unhappy the feeling is it is not | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
going to go ahead in the proposed form that the consultation has been | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
on. No 10 will definitely have to move on this. It is unclear whether | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
they will scrap it completely, or will they bring in something | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
possibly like a base level, floor level pupil funding below which you | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
can't go? You would then still need to find some extra money. So there | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
are no easy solutions on this but what is clear it is not going to go | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
ahead in its current form. Parents have been getting letters across the | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
country in England about what this will mean for teachers and so on in | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
certain schools. It's not just a matter of the education Department, | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
the schools, or the teachers and Tory backbenchers. Parents are being | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
mobilised on this. The point of the new funding formula is to allocate | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
more money to the more disadvantaged. That means schools in | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
the more prosperous suburbs are going to lose money. Budget cuts on | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
schools which are already struggling. It comes down again to | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
be huge problem, the ever smaller fiscal pool, ever greater demands, | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
NHS, social care, education as well, adding to Theresa May and Phillip | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
Hammond's enormous problems. Here is an interesting issue, Steve. There | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
was a labour Leader of the Opposition that once suggested | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
perhaps given these huge energy companies which seemed to be good at | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
passing on energy rises but not so good at cutting energy prices when | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
it falls, that perhaps we should put a cap on them until at least we | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
study how the market goes. This was obviously ludicrous Marxism and | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
quite rightly knocked down by the Conservatives, except that Mrs May | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
is now talking about putting a cap on energy prices. Yes, I think if it | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
wasn't for Brexit we would focus much more on Theresa May's Ed | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
Miliband streak. Whether this translates into policies, let us | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
see. That bit we don't know. That bit we don't know but in terms of | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
argument her speech to the Conservative conference on Friday | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
was about the third or fourth time where she said as part of the | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
speech, let's focus on the good that government can do, including in | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
intervening in markets, exactly in the way that he used to argue. As | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
you say, we await the policy consequences of that. She seems more | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
cautious in terms of policy in fermentation. But in terms of the | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
industrial strategy, in terms of implying intervention in certain | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
markets, there is a kind of Milibandesque streak. And there | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
comes a time when she has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
They talk a lot about the just about managing, just about managing face | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
rising food bills because of the lower pound and face rising fuel | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
bills because of the rise in oil and in other commodities. One of the two | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
things you could do to help the just about managing is to cut their food | :11:23. | :11:25. | |
bills and the second would be to cut their fuel bills. At some stage she | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
has to do something for them. We don't know what is going to happen | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
to food bills under Brexit, that could become a really serious issue. | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
They could abolish tariffs. There has been a lot of talking the talk | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
and big announcements put out and not following through so I agree | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
with you on that but lots of Tory MPs will have a big problem on | :11:45. | :11:57. | |
this and the principle of continually talking about | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
interfering in markets, whether it's on executive pay, whether it is on | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
energy, at a time when Britain needs to send out this message to the | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
world in their view, in the view of Brexit supporting MPs, that we are | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
open for business and the government is not about poking around and doing | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
this kind of thing. Of course, you could argue there is not a problem | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
in the market for energy, it is a malfunctioning market that doesn't | :12:15. | :12:16. | |
operate like a free market should, so that provides even Adam Smith, | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
the inventor of market economics would have said on that basis you | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
should intervene. I was in Cardiff to listen to Theresa May's latest | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
explanation for doing this. By the way, we've been waiting nine months, | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
this was one of her big ideas. You are right, let's see a bit of the | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
meat, please. My newspaper has been calling for some pretty hefty | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
government action on this for quite some time. For the just about | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
managings? Yes and specifically to sort out an energy market dominated | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
by the big six, which is manifestly ripping people off left, right and | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
centre. Theresa May's argument in Cardiff on Friday morning which, by | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
the way, went down like a proverbial windbreak at the proverbial funeral | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
because Tories... You know what I mean Andrew, the big hand coming | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
into from the state telling businesses what to do. They went | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
very quiet indeed. They were having saving the union and Nato but there | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
was no clapping for that. The point being, this is what she needs to do | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
to prove her assault, to prove those first words on the steps of Downing | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
Street. We await to see the actions taken. | :13:23. | :13:24. | |
On that unusual agreement we will leave it there. The Daily Politics | :13:25. | :13:32. | |
will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at noon and everyday during the week. | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
And I'll be here on BBC One next Sunday at 11am. | :13:36. | :13:37. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:38. | :14:21. | |
I've not given myself that time to sit down | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
Two years ago, former England captain Rio Ferdinand lost his wife | :14:28. | :14:32. |