Browse content similar to 05/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
Theresa May pledged to help people who are "just about managing", | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
and this week her government will announce new measures to boost | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
the number of affordable homes and improve conditions for renters. | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
After a US court suspends Donald Trump's travel ban and rules | :00:46. | :00:56. | |
it could be unconstitutional, one of the President's inner circle | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
tells me there is no "chaos", and that Donald Trump's White House | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
is making good on his campaign promises. | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
As the Government gets into gear for two years | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
of Brexit negotiations, we report on the haggling to come | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
over the UK's Brexit bill for leaving the European Union - | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
and the costs and savings once we've left. | :01:15. | :01:22. | |
And in the North West, can we get a Brexit deal | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
The Metro Mayor candidates on where they see our the place in the world. | :01:26. | :01:36. | |
And with me, as always, a trio of top political | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
journalists - Helen Lewis, Tom Newton Dunn | :01:41. | :01:41. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme, | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
So, more anguish to come this week for the Labour party as the House | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
of Commons continues to debate the bill which paves the way | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
Last week, Labour split over the Article 50 bill, | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
with a fifth of Labour MPs defying Jeremy Corbyn to vote against. | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
Five shadow ministers resigned, and it's expected Mr Corbyn | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
will have to sack more frontbenchers once the bill is voted | :02:10. | :02:11. | |
Add to that the fact that the Labour Leader's close ally | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
Diane Abbot failed to turn up for the initial vote - | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
blaming illness - and things don't look too rosy | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
The Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry was asked | :02:22. | :02:23. | |
about the situation earlier on the Andrew Marr show. | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
The Labour Party is a national party and we represent the nation, | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
and the nation is divided on this, and it is very difficult. | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
Many MPs representing majority Remain constituencies have this very | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
difficult balancing act between - do I represent my constituency, | :02:42. | :02:43. | |
Labour, as a national party, have a clear view. | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
We fought to stay in Europe, but the public have spoken, | :02:48. | :02:55. | |
But the important thing now is not to give Theresa May a blank check, | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
we have to make sure we get the right deal for the country. | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
That was Emily Thornberry. Helen, is this like a form of Chinese water | :03:07. | :03:14. | |
torture for the Labour Party? And for journalists, to! We are in a | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
situation where no one really thinks it's working. A lot of authority has | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
drained away from Jeremy Corbyn but no one can do anything about it. | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
What we saw from the leadership contest is on the idea of a Blairite | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
plot to get rid of him. You are essentially stuck in stasis. The | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
only person that can remove Jeremy Corbyn is God or Jeremy Corbyn. | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
Authority may have moved from Mr Corbyn but it's not going anywhere | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
else, there's not an alternative centre of authority? Not quite, but | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
Clive Lewis is name emerging, the Shadow Business Secretary. A lot of | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
the Labour left, people like Paul Mason, really like him and would | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
like to see him in Corbyn. I think that's why Jeremy Corbyn do | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
something extraordinary next week and abstain from Article 50, the | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
main bill itself, to keep his Shadow Cabinet together. That clip on | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
Andrew Marr, point blank refusing to say if Labour will vote for Article | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
50. The only way Jeremy Corbyn can hold this mess together now is to | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
abstain, which would be catastrophic across Brexit constituencies in the | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
North. The problem with abstention is everyone will say on the issue of | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
our time, the official opposition hasn't got coherent or considered | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
policy? I love the way Emily Thornberry said the country is | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
divided and we represent the country, in other words we are | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
divided at the party as well. The other thing that was a crucial | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
moment this week is the debate over whether there should be a so-called | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
meaningful vote by MPs on the deal that Theresa May gets. That is a | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
point of real danger for Brexit supporters. It may well be there is | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
a coalition of Labour and SNP and Remain MPs, Tory MPs, who vote for | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
that so-called meaningful vote that could undermine Theresa May's | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
negotiation. So Theresa May could have had troubles as well, not plain | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
sailing for her? There is no point, apart from lonely Ken Clarke voting | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
against Article 50, no point in Tory remainders rebelling. It would have | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
been a token gesture with no support. But there might be | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
meaningful amendments. One might be on the status of EU nationals... The | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
government could lose that. There might be a majority for some of | :05:35. | :05:42. | |
those amendments. The ins and outs of the Labour Party, it fascinates | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
the Labour Party and journalists. I suspect the country has just moved | :05:46. | :05:47. | |
on and doesn't care. You are probably quite right. To be honest I | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
struggled to get Labour split stories in my paper any more, the | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
bar is so high to make it news. Where it does matter is now not | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
everyone will pay huge amounts to the -- of attention to the vote on | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
Wednesday. But come the general election in 2020, maybe a little | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
earlier, every Tory leaflet and every labour constituency will say | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
this guy, this goal, they refuse to vote for Brexit, do you want them in | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
power? That is going to be really hard for them. The story next week | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
may be Tory splits rather than just Labour ones, we will see. | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
Theresa May has made a big deal out of her commitment to help people | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
on middle incomes who are "just about managing", and early this week | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
we should get a good sense of what that means in practice - | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
when plans to bring down the cost of housing and protect renters | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
are published in the Government's new white paper. | :06:42. | :06:42. | |
Theresa May has promised she'll kick off Brexit negotiations with the EU | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
by the end of March, and after months of shadow-boxing | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
Ellie Price reports on the battle to come over the UK's Brexit bill, | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
and the likely costs and savings once we've left. | :06:53. | :06:54. | |
It was the figure that defined the EU referendum campaign. | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
It was also a figure that was fiercely disputed, but the promise - | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
vote leave and Britain won't have to pay into the EU are any more. | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
So, is that what's going to happen now? | :07:07. | :07:08. | |
The trouble with buses is you tend to have to wait for them | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
and when Theresa May triggers Article 50, the clock starts | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
She needs something quicker, something more sporty. | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
According to the most recent Treasury figures, | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
Britain's gross contribution to the EU, after the rebate | :07:25. | :07:26. | |
is taken into account, is about ?14 billion a year. | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
There are some complicating factors that means it can go up | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
or down year on year, but that's roughly how much the UK | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
will no longer sending to Brussels post-Brexit. | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
But, there are other payments that Britain will have to shell out for. | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
First and foremost, the so-called divorce settlement. | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
It is being said, and openly by Commissioner Barnier | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
and others in the Commission, that the total financial liability | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
as they see it might be in the order of 40-60 billion | :07:57. | :07:58. | |
The BBC understands the figure EU negotiators are likely | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
to settle on is far lower, around 34 billion euros, | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
but what does the money they are going to argue | :08:10. | :08:11. | |
Well, that's how much Britain owes for stuff in the EU budget that's | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
already signed up for until 2020, one year after we are | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
Historically, Britain pays 12% in contributions, | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
so the cost to the UK is likely to be between ten | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
Then they will look at the 200-250 billion euros of underfunded | :08:29. | :08:36. | |
spending commitments, the so-called RAL. | :08:37. | :08:37. | |
Britain could also be liable for around 5-7 billion euros | :08:38. | :08:45. | |
for its share in the pensions bill for EU staff, that's again | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
12% of an overall bill of 50-60 billion. | :08:51. | :08:52. | |
Finally there's a share of our assets held by the EU. | :08:53. | :08:54. | |
They include things like this building, the European Commission | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
Britain could argue it deserves a share back of around 18 billion | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
euros from a portfolio that's said to be worth 153 billion euros. | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
So, lots for the two sides to discuss in two years of talks. | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
They have a great opportunity with the Article 50 talks | :09:14. | :09:15. | |
because actually they can hold us to ransom. | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
They can say, "You figure out money, we will talk about your trade. | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
But until you've figured out the money, we won't," so I think | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
a lot of European states think they are in a very strong | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
negotiating position at the moment and they intend to make | :09:30. | :09:31. | |
The principle is clear, the days of Britain making vast | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
contributions to the European Union every year will end. | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
Theresa May has already indicated that she would want to sign back up | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
to a number of EU agencies on a program-by-program basis. | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
The Europol for example, that's the European crime | :09:53. | :09:54. | |
agency, or Erasmus Plus, which wants student exchanges. | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
If everything stays the same as it is now, it would cost the UK | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
675 million euros a year, based on analysis by | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
But there are likely to be agencies we don't choose to participate in. | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
If we only opted back to those dealing with security, | :10:14. | :10:23. | |
trade, universities and, say, climate change, | :10:24. | :10:24. | |
it could come with a price tag of 370 million euros per year. | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
Of course that's if our European neighbours allow us. | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
I wonder if they're going to let me in! | :10:31. | :10:32. | |
There will also be a cost to creating a new system to resolve | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
trade disputes with other nations once we are no longer part | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
Take the EFTA Court which rules on disputes | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
between the EU and Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein. | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
That costs 4 million euros to run each year, | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
though in the Brexit White Paper published this week, | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
the Government said it will not be constrained by precedent | :10:54. | :10:55. | |
Finally, would the EU get behind the idea of Britain making some | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
contribution for some preferential access to its market? | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
The sort of thing that Theresa May seems to be hinting | :11:08. | :11:09. | |
at are sectoral arrangements, some kind of partial membership | :11:10. | :11:11. | |
Switzerland, which has a far less wide-ranging deal than Norway, | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
pays about 320 million a year for what it gets into the EU budget, | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
but it's not exactly the Swiss deal that we're after. | :11:24. | :11:25. | |
The EU institutions hate the Swiss deal because it is codified | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
in a huge number of treaties that are messy, complicated | :11:29. | :11:30. | |
and cumbersome, and they really don't want to replicate | :11:31. | :11:32. | |
Theresa May has been at pains to insist she's in the driving seat | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
when it comes to these negotiations, and that she's | :11:40. | :11:41. | |
But with so much money up for discussion, it may not be such | :11:42. | :11:51. | |
Sadly she didn't get to keep the car! | :11:52. | :12:08. | |
And I've been joined to discuss the Brexit balance sheet | :12:09. | :12:10. | |
by the director of the Centre for European Reform, Charles Grant, | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
and by Henry Newman who runs the think tank Open Europe. | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
Henry Newman, these figures that are being thrown about in Brussels at | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
the moment, and exit bill of 40-60,000,000,000. What do you make | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
of them? I think it is an opening gambit from the institutions and we | :12:29. | :12:30. | |
should take them seriously. We listened to Mr Rogers, the former | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
ambassador to Brussels in the House of Commons last week, speaking about | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
the sort of positions the EU is likely to take in the negotiation. I | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
personally think the Prime Minister should be more concerned about | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
getting the right sort of trade arrangements, subsequent to our | :12:50. | :12:51. | |
departure, than worrying about the exact detail of the divorce | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
settlement and the Bill. They might not let them go on to trade until | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
they resolve this matter. Where does the Brexit bill, the cost of exit, | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
if there is to be one, in terms of a sum of money, where does that come | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
in the negotiations, upfront or at the end? The European Commission has | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
a firm line on this. You have to talk about the Brexit bill and the | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
divorce settlement before you talk about the future relationship. | :13:20. | :13:21. | |
Therefore they are saying if you don't sign up for 60 billion or | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
thereabouts, we won't talk about the future. Other member states take a | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
softer line than that and think you probably have to talk about the | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
divorce settlement and Brexit bill as the same -- at the same time as | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
the economic situation. If you can do both at the same time, the | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
atmosphere may be better natured. You have spoken to people in | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
Brussels and are part of a think tank, how Revista gives the figure | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
or is it an opening gambit? Most member states and EU institutions | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
believe they think it is the true figure but when the negotiations | :13:59. | :14:00. | |
start adding the number will come down. As long as the British are | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
prepared to sign up to the principle of we owe you a bit of money, as the | :14:04. | :14:10. | |
cheque, then people will compromise. What is the ballpark? You had a | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
figure of 34 billion, that is news to me, nobody knows because | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
negotiations haven't started but I think something lower than 60. Even | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
60 would be politically toxic for a British government? I think Theresa | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
May is in a strong position, she has united the Conservative Party. You | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
could expect coming into this year all the Conservative divisions would | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
be laid bare by Gina Miller. But she is leading a united party. Labour | :14:38. | :14:44. | |
Party are divided... Coogee get away with paying 30 billion? We should | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
give her the benefit of the doubt going into these negotiations, let | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
her keep her cards close to her chest. The speech he gave a few | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
weeks ago at Lancaster House, our judgment was she laid out as much | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
detail as we could have expected at that point. I don't think it's | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
helpful for us now to say, we shouldn't be introducing further red | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
line. I want you to be helpful and find things out. I would suggest if | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
there is a bill, let's say it's 30 billion, let's make it half of what | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
the current claims coming out of Brussels. And of course it won't | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
have to be paid in one year, I assume it's not one cheque but | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
spread over. But we will wait a long time for that 350 million a week or | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
what ever it was that was meant to come from Brussels to spend on the | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
NHS. That's not going to happen for the next five, six or seven years. | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
Everyone has been clear there will be a phased exit programme. The | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
question of whether something is political possible for her in terms | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
of the divorce settlement will depend on what she gets from the | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
European Union in those negotiations. If she ends up | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
settling for a bill of about 30 billion which I think would be | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
politically... No matter how popular she is, politically very difficult | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
for her, it does kill any idea there is a Brexit dividend for Britain. | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
Some of the senior officials in London and Brussels are worried this | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
issue could crash the talks because it may be possible for Theresa May | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
to accept a Brexit bill of 30 billion and if there is no deal and | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
will leave EU without a settlement, there is massive legal uncertainty. | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
What contract law applies? Can our planes take off from Heathrow? | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
Nobody knows what legal rights there are for an EU citizen living here | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
and vice versa. If there is no deal at the end of two years, it is quite | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
bad for the European economy, therefore they think they have all | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
the cards to play and they think if it is mishandled domestically in | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
Britain than we have a crash. But there will be competing interests in | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
Europe, the Baltic states, Eastern Europe, maybe quite similar of the | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
Nordic states, that in turn different from the French, Germans | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
or Italians. How will Europe come to a common view on these things? At | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
the moment they are quite united backing a strong line, except for | :17:16. | :17:23. | |
the polls and Hungarians who are the bad boys of Europe and the Irish who | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
will do anything to keep us happy. We should remember their priority is | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
not economics, they are not thinking how can they maximise trade with the | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
UK, they are under threat. The combination of Trump and Brexit | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
scares them. They want to keep the institutions strong. They also want | :17:42. | :17:48. | |
to keep Britain. That is the one strong card we have, contributing to | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
security. We know we won't be members of the single market, that | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
was in the White Paper. The situation of the customs union is | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
more complicated I would suggest. Does that have cost? If we can be a | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
little bit pregnant in the customs union, does that come with a price | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
ticket? We have got some clarity on the customs union, the Prime | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
Minister said we would not be part of the... We would be able to do our | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
own trade deals outside the EU customs union, and also not be part | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
of the common external tariff. She said she is willing to look at other | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
options and we don't know what that will be so as a think tank we are | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
looking at this over the next few weeks and coming up with | :18:37. | :18:38. | |
recommendations for the Government and looking at how existing | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
boundaries between the EU customs union and other states work in | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
practice. For example between Switzerland and the EU border, | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
Norway and Switzerland, and the UK and Canada. We will want is a | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
country the freedom to do our own free trade deals, that seems to be | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
quite high up there, and to change our external tariffs to the rest of | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
the world. If that's the case, we do seem to be wanting our cake and | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
eating it in the customs union. Talking to some people in London, it | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
is quite clear we are leaving the essentials of the customs union, the | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
tariff, so even if we can minimise controls at the border by having | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
mutual recognition agreements, so we recognise each other's standards, | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
but there will still have to be checks for things like rules of | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
origin and tariffs if tariffs apply, which is a problem for the Irish | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
because nobody has worked out how you can avoid having some sort of | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
customs control on the border between Northern Ireland and the | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
South once we are out of the customs union. I think it's important we | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
don't look at this too much as one side has to win and one side has to | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
lose scenario. We can find ways. My Broadview is what we get out of the | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
negotiation will depend on politics more than economic reality. Economic | :20:01. | :20:02. | |
reality is strong, there's a good case for a trade deal on the | :20:03. | :20:20. | |
solution on the customs deal, but Britain will need to come up with a | :20:21. | :20:22. | |
positive case for our relationship and keep making that case. If it | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
turns out the Government thinks the bill is too high, that we can't | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
really get the free trade deal done in time and it's left hanging in the | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
wind, what are the chances, how I as things stand now that we end up | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
crashing out? I'd say there's a 30% chance that we don't get the free | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
trade agreement at the end of it that Mrs May is aiming for. The very | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
hard crash is you don't even do an Article 50 divorce settlement from | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
you go straight to World Trade Organisation rules. The less hard | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
crash is doing the divorce settlement and transitional | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
arrangements would require European Court of Justice arrangements. We | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
will leave it there. Thank you, both. | :21:03. | :21:03. | |
Donald Trump's flagship policy of extreme vetting of immigrants | :21:04. | :21:05. | |
and a temporary travel ban for citizens of seven mainly-muslim | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
countries was stopped in its tracks this weekend. | :21:09. | :21:10. | |
On Friday a judge ruled the ban should be lifted and that it | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
That prompted President Trump to fire off a series of tweets | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
criticising what he says was a terrible decision | :21:19. | :21:20. | |
by a so-called judge, as he ordered the State Department | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
Now the federal appeals court has rejected his request to reinstate | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
the ban until it hears the case in full. | :21:31. | :21:42. | |
Well yesterday I spoke to Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
I asked him if the confusion over the travel ban | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
was a sign that the President's two-week-old administration | :21:51. | :21:52. | |
There is no chaos, you really shouldn't believe the spin, the | :21:53. | :22:05. | |
facts speak for themselves. 109 people on Saturday were mildly | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
inconvenienced by having their entry into the United States delayed out | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
of 325,000. So let's not get carried away with the left-wing media bias | :22:18. | :22:26. | |
and spin. Hold on, 60,000 - 90,000 people with visas, their visas are | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
no longer valid. That's another issue. You need to listen to what | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
I'm saying. The people who entered on the day of the executive order | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
being implemented worth 109 people out of 325. Whether people won't | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
travelling to America were affected is another matter, so there is no | :22:48. | :22:56. | |
chaos to comment on. Following Iran's latest missile tests, | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
National Security adviser Flint said the US was "Putting Iran on notice", | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
what does that mean? It means we have a new president and we are not | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
going to facilitate the rise of one of the most dangerous nations in the | :23:10. | :23:16. | |
world. We are jettisoning this naive and dangerous policy of the Obama | :23:17. | :23:24. | |
Administration to try and make the Shi'ite dictatorial democracy some | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
kind of counter balance to extremist Sunni groups in the region and that | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
they cannot continue to behave in the way they have behaved for the | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
last 30 years. It is a very simple message. So are there any | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
multilateral alliances that Mr Trump would like to strengthen? | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
Absolutely. If we are looking at the region, if you listen to what | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
President Trump has said and specifically to also the speeches of | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
general Flint, his national security adviser, we are incredibly vested in | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
seeing our Sunni allies in the region come together in a real | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
coalition. The so-called vaunted 66 nation coalition that was created | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
under the Obama administration... There was no coalition. But we want | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
to help our Sunni allies, especially the Egyptians, the Jordanians, come | :24:19. | :24:26. | |
together in a real partnership to take the fight to ISIS and groups | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
like Al-Qaeda. But there is not a formal multilateral alliance with | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
these countries. Which of the existing, formal multilateral | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
alliances does Mr Trump wants to strengthen? If you are specifically | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
talking about Nato, it is clear that we are committed to Nato but we wish | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
to see a more equitable burden sharing among the nations that are | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
simply not spending enough on their own defence so the gentleman 's | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
agreement of 2% of GDP has to be stuck to, unlike the, I think it's | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
only Six Nations that reach the standard today out of almost 30. So | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
he does want to strengthen Nato then? Absolutely, he believes Nato | :25:08. | :25:18. | |
is the most successful military alliances. You mustn't believe the | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
spin and hype. EU leaders now see the Trump administration as a threat | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
up there with Russia, China, terrorism. What's your response to | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
that? I have to laugh. The idea that the nation that came to the | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
salvation of Europe twice in the 20th century hummer in World War I | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
and World War II, was central to the defeat of the totalitarian... It is | :25:49. | :25:59. | |
not even worth commenting on. Would it matter to the Trump | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
administration if the European Union broke up? The United States is very | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
interested in the best relations possible with all the nations of the | :26:07. | :26:14. | |
EU am a whether the European union wishes to stay together or not is up | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
to the nations of the European Union. I understand that but I was | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
wondering what the US view would be. Until Mr Trump, EU foreign policy | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
was quite consistent in wanting to see the EU survive, prosper and even | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
become more integrated. Now that doesn't seem to be the case, so | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
would it matter to the Trump administration if the EU broke up? I | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
will say yet again, it is in the interests of the United States to | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
have the best relations possible with our European allies, and | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
whether that is in the formation of the EU or if the EU by itself | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
suffers some kind of internal issues, that's up to the European | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
nations and not something we will comment on. Listening to that | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
answer, it would seem as if this particular president's preference is | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
to deal with individual nation states rather than multilateral | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
institutions. Is that fair? I don't think so. There's never been an | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
unequivocal statement by that effect by the statement. Does he share the | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
opinion of Stephen Bannon that the 21st century should see a return to | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
nation states rather than growing existing multilateral ways? I think | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
it is fair to say that we have problems with political elites that | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
don't take the interests of the populations they represent into | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
account. That's why Brexit happened. I think that's why Mr Trump became | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
President Trump. This is the connected phenomena. You are | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
obsessing about institutions, it is not about institutions, it's about | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
the health of democracy and whether political elites do what is in the | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
interests of the people they represent. Given the | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
unpredictability of the new president, you never really know | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
what he's going to do next, would it be wise for the British Prime | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
Minister to hitch her wagon to his star? This is really churlish | :28:15. | :28:21. | |
questioning. Come on, you don't know what he's going to do next, listen | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
to what he says because he does what he's going to say. I know this may | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
be shocking to some reporters, but look at his campaign promises, and | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
the fact that in the last 15 days we have executed every single one that | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
we could in the time permissible so there is nothing unpredictable about | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
Donald Trump as president. OK then, if we do know what he's going to do | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
next, what is he going to do next? Continue to make good on his | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
election promises, to make America great again, to make the economy are | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
flourishing economy, and most important of all from your | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
perspective in the UK, to be the best friend possible to our friends | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
and the worst enemy to our enemies. It is an old Marine Corps phrase and | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
we tend to live by it. Thank you for your time, we will leave it there. | :29:17. | :29:23. | |
Doctor Gorka, making it clear this administration won't spend political | :29:24. | :29:30. | |
capital on trying to keep the European Union together, a watershed | :29:31. | :29:31. | |
change in American foreign policy. Theresa May has made a big deal out | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
of her commitment to help people on middle incomes who are "just | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
about managing", and early this week we should get a good sense | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
of what that means in practice - when plans to bring down the cost | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
of housing and protect renters are published in the Government's | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
new white paper. The paper is expected to introduce | :29:47. | :29:48. | |
new rules on building Communities Secretary Sajid Javid | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
has previously said politicians should not stand in the way | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
of development, provided all options Also rumoured are new measures | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
to speed up building the 1 million new homes the Government promised | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
to build by 2020, including imposing five-year quotas | :30:05. | :30:06. | |
on reluctant councils. Reports suggest there will be | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
relaxation of building height restrictions, | :30:11. | :30:12. | |
allowing home owners and developers to build to the height | :30:13. | :30:14. | |
of the tallest building on the block without needing to seek | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
planning permission. Other elements trialled include | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
new measures to stop developers sitting on parcels of land | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
without building homes, land banking, and moving railway | :30:27. | :30:28. | |
station car parks Underground, The Government today said it | :30:29. | :30:30. | |
will amend planning rules so more homes can be built specifically | :30:31. | :30:39. | |
to be rented out through longer term tenancies, to provide more stability | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
for young families, alongside its proposed ban | :30:43. | :30:44. | |
on letting agent fees. And the Housing Minister, | :30:45. | :30:51. | |
Gavin Barwell, joins me now. Welcome to the programme. Home | :30:52. | :31:01. | |
ownership is now beyond the reach of most young people. You are now | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
emphasising affordable homes for rent. Why have you given up on the | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
Tory dream of a property owning democracy? We haven't given up on | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
that. The decline on home ownership in this country started in 2004. So | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
far we have stopped that decline, we haven't reversed it but we | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
absolutely want to make sure that people who want to own and can do | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
so. The Prime Minister was very clear a country that works for | :31:27. | :31:28. | |
everyone. That means we have to have say something to say to those who | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
want to rent as well as on. Home ownership of young people is 35%, | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
used to be 60%. Are you telling me during the lifetime of this | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
government that is going to rise? We want to reverse the decline. We have | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
stabilised it. The decline started in 2004 under Labour. They weren't | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
bothered about it. We have taken action and that has stop the | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
decline... What about the rise? We have to make sure people work hard | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
the right thing have the chance to own their home on home. We have | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
helped people through help to buy, shared ownership, that is part of | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
it, but we have to have something to say to those who want to rent. You | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
say you want more rented homes so why did you introduce a 3% | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
additional stamp duty levied to pay those investing in build to rent | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
properties? That was basically to try and stop a lot of the | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
speculation in the buy to let market. The Bank of England raised | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
concerns about that. When you see the white paper, you will see there | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
is a package of measures for Bill to rent, trying to get institutional | :32:34. | :32:40. | |
investment for that, different to people going and buying a home on | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
the private market and renting out. You are trying to get institutional | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
money to comment, just as this government and subsequent ones | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
before said it would get pension fund money to invest in | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
infrastructure and it never happened. Why should this happen? Is | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
already starting to happen. If you go around the country you can see | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
some of these builder rent scheme is happening. There are changes in the | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
White Paper... How much money from institutions is going into bill to | :33:07. | :33:17. | |
rent modular hundreds of millions. I was at the stock exchange the other | :33:18. | :33:19. | |
day celebrating the launch of one of our bombs designed to get this money | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
on. There are schemes being... There is huge potential to expand it. We | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
need more homes and we are too dependent on a small number of large | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
developers. -- to launch one of our bonds. You talk about affordable | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
renting, what is affordable? Defined as something that is at least 20% | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
below the market price. It will vary around the country. Let me put it | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
another way. The average couple renting now have to spend 50% of | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
their income on rent. Is that affordable? That is exactly what | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
we're trying to do something about. Whether you're trying to buy or | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
rent, housing in this country has become less and less affordable | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
because the 30-40 years governments haven't built in times. This white | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
Paper is trying to do something about that. You have been in power | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
six, almost seven years. That's right. Why are ownership of new | :34:09. | :34:16. | |
homes to 24 year low? It was a low figure because it's a new five-year | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
programme. That is not a great excuse. It's not an excuse at all. | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
The way these things work, you have a five-year programme and in the | :34:25. | :34:26. | |
last year you have a record number of delivery and when you start a new | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
programme, a lower level. If you look at the average over six years, | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
this government has built more affordable housing than the previous | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
one. Stiletto 24 year loss, that is an embarrassment. Yes. We have the | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
figures, last year was 32,000, the year before 60 6000. You get this | :34:47. | :34:49. | |
cliff edge effect. It is embarrassing and we want to stop it | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
happening in the future. You want to give tenants more secure and longer | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
leases which rent rises are predictable in advance. Ed Miliband | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
promoted three-year tenancies in the 2015 general election campaign and | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
George Osborne said it was totally economically illiterate. What's | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
changed? You are merging control of the rents people in charge, which | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
we're not imposing. We want longer term tenancies. Most people have | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
six-month tenancies... Within that there would be a control on how much | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
the rent could go up? Right? It would be set for the period of the | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
tenancies. That's what I just said, that's what Ed Miliband proposed. Ed | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
Miliband proposed regulating it for the whole sector. One of the reasons | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
institutional investment is so attractive, if you had a spare home | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
and you want to rent out, you might need it any year, so you give it a | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
short tenancy. If you have a block, they are interested in a long-term | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
return and give families more security. You have set a target, | :35:56. | :36:02. | |
your government, to build in the life of this parliament 1 million | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
new homes in England by 2020. You're not going to make that? I think we | :36:06. | :36:13. | |
are. If you look at 2015-16 we had 190,000 additional homes of this | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
country. Just below the level we need to achieve. Over five... | :36:17. | :36:24. | |
2015-16. You were probably looking at the new homes built. Talking | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
about completions in England. That is not the best measure, with | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
respect. You said you will complete 1 million homes by 2020 so what is | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
wrong with it? We use a national statistic which looks at new homes | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
built and conversions and changes of use minus demolitions. The total | :36:44. | :36:45. | |
change of the housing stock over that year. On that basis I have the | :36:46. | :36:52. | |
figures here. I have the figures. You looking I just completed. 1 | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
million new homes, the average rate of those built in the last three | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
quarters was 30 6000. You have 14 more quarters to get to the 1 | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
million. You have to raise that to 50 6000. I put it to you, you won't | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
do it. You're not looking at the full picture of new housing in this | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
country. You're looking at brand-new homes and not including conversions | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
or changes of use are not taking off, which we should, demolitions. | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
If you look at the National statistic net additions, in 2015-16, | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
100 and 90,000 new homes. We are behind schedule. -- 190,000. I am | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
confident with the measures in the White Paper we can achieve that. It | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
is not just about the national total, we need to build these homes | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
are the right places. Will the green belt remain sacrosanct after the | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
white paper? Not proposing to change the existing protections that there | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
for green belts. What planning policy says is councils can remove | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
land from green belts but only in exceptional circumstances and should | :37:58. | :37:59. | |
look at at all the circumstances before doing that. No change? No. We | :38:00. | :38:06. | |
have a manifesto commitment. You still think you will get 1 million | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
homes? The green belt is only 15%. This idea we can only fix our broken | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
housing market by taking huge swathes of land out of the green | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
belt is not true. We will leave it there, thank you for joining us, | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
Gavin Barwell. It is coming up to 11.40. | :38:23. | :38:24. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead... | :38:27. | :38:36. | |
Coming up in the North West: | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
isn't rosy - the leasehold homes proving a thorn | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
I just feel like I've been completely mis-sold, my house. | :38:45. | :38:52. | |
If I knew that they could do this, I would never have | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
But surely coming up roses in the studio are Jake Berry, | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
the Conservative MP for Rossendale and Darwen, | :39:00. | :39:01. | |
for Stalybridge and Hyde and Shadow Economic Secretary | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
First, we have to start, don't we, with Brexit? | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
Because this week MPs started divorce proceedings from the EU, | :39:08. | :39:14. | |
but some Labour MPs defied the party leadership and voted | :39:15. | :39:16. | |
Here's Luciana Berger on why she did just that. | :39:17. | :39:25. | |
I listened to my constituents, even those who voted | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
None of us were led to believe, in any way, | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
shape or form that it would result in us leaving the single market. | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
I didn't believe that at this moment in time | :39:38. | :39:39. | |
trigger is fired, essentially there is no turning back. | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
Where do you think this leaves the Labour leadership? | :39:44. | :39:45. | |
There's many of us who've voted in different | :39:46. | :39:47. | |
ways and everyone did so for principled reasons. | :39:48. | :39:49. | |
Whether we voted for or against triggering Article | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
50, we will all be coming together next week in order to support | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
various amendments and put those amendments forward. | :39:59. | :40:00. | |
Jonathan, what is the point of a three line whip when 47 Labour MPs | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
I don't think any party was unanimous | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
I don't think they should be, to be honest. | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
This is probably, in fact not probably, it | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
is fundamentally the biggest issue any of us will ever have to vote on | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
in Parliament in our lifetimes, unless something even more serious | :40:19. | :40:20. | |
and unexpected happens in the next few years | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
and people will have to go on | :40:24. | :40:24. | |
what they think was right and what their areas did and I think if | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
colleagues felt that areas were Remain, | :40:29. | :40:29. | |
they wanted to honour that | :40:30. | :40:30. | |
For my part, I think if you have a referendum you have due | :40:31. | :40:39. | |
-- to honour the result of that referendum. | :40:40. | :40:41. | |
The only people who could legitimately say they weren't | :40:42. | :40:43. | |
following that, maybe people like Ken Clarke | :40:44. | :40:45. | |
who would've paused the | :40:46. | :40:46. | |
referendum in the first place but if you have a referendum to decide | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
these things, you have got to honour that and I think that is the right | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
position for the party leaderships have but I understand people | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
have had different, you know, different | :40:56. | :40:56. | |
opinions on that based on | :40:57. | :40:58. | |
what people in their areas were saying. | :40:59. | :40:59. | |
We have got to respect that, that is what Parliament is about. | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
Jake, there were some serious criticism of the 77 page white | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
talk of the economy, a focus on immigration, | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
taking back legislation but not enough on how the economy is | :41:09. | :41:10. | |
We can't be too focused on this Article | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
We have to now move on and start talking about the white paper | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
and actually how that divorce is going to take place. | :41:22. | :41:23. | |
Now, there has been some criticism of the white | :41:24. | :41:25. | |
I actually thought overall it was an excellent document but I | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
think what it shows us is that we need | :41:32. | :41:33. | |
to change our language and | :41:34. | :41:34. | |
start talking about how Britain leaving the European Union isn't | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
just good for Britain but it is going to be good | :41:38. | :41:39. | |
for Europe as well and I think that is the really | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
refreshing part of the white paper is that it started talking about | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
Britain not being part of the European Union but supporting a | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
And like any deal you ever make, whether it | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
be a divorce or whether it be a business deal or a political deal, | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
both sides have to win and I think it's really refreshing that this | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
week we have started saying actually how can Britain win but how | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
can we also make sure our friends and colleagues in Europe will take | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
You might remember a couple of weeks ago we reported on how | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
the Brexit Secretary David Davis promised to meet our Metro Mayors | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
Greater Manchester and the Liverpool City Region, | :42:13. | :42:14. | |
that's Merseyside plus Halton, head to the polls in May. | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
Our Merseyside political reporter, Claire Hamilton, has been finding | :42:18. | :42:19. | |
out what the candidates there would like to tell Mr Davis. | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
Trying to win votes after losing the fight | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
Liberal Democrat candidate for Metro Mayor of the Liverpool City region. | :42:26. | :42:32. | |
Whoever wins in May will be invited to sit round a table with the | :42:33. | :42:42. | |
Government to push the city region's agenda post Brexit. | :42:43. | :42:44. | |
The Liverpool City region has got the same | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
population as Northern Ireland so what I would do, I would work with | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
the government of Northern Ireland and work with the mayor of the | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
Manchester City region as well to establish | :42:54. | :42:54. | |
an embassy in Brussels but | :42:55. | :42:55. | |
I think regardless of whether we are in | :42:56. | :42:57. | |
the European Union or not, we | :42:58. | :42:59. | |
need to recognise it is important for our trade and our industry | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
One of my personal aspirations is to see this | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
city region becoming massively global city | :43:06. | :43:06. | |
region and playing on | :43:07. | :43:09. | |
The Liverpool City region was divided by | :43:10. | :43:11. | |
Liverpool, Wirral and Sefton voted to remain in the EU. | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
Saint Helens, Knowsley and Holton voted to leave. | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
Three of the candidates in this election actively campaign to stay | :43:19. | :43:25. | |
Conservative Tony Caldeira didn't vote. | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
At his cushion factory in Knowsley, he says it is | :43:32. | :43:33. | |
I think it could have a huge impact if we | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
can do the right trade deals for Liverpool City region. | :43:38. | :43:39. | |
To use my own example, we deal with the US | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
and if we had a better tariff with the US, | :43:43. | :43:44. | |
That will create more jobs and more growth that | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
would be my priority if | :43:49. | :43:49. | |
I'm going to be the elected mayor of Liverpool. | :43:50. | :43:51. | |
Labour's candidate hopes cash will flow to the city after | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
What I would like to see is some of the promises | :43:55. | :44:04. | |
that we had during the referendum come to fruition, | :44:05. | :44:07. | |
money that is now being repatriated, apparently, to the UK, some of that | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
should be used to do some of the things | :44:12. | :44:13. | |
that we have identified in | :44:14. | :44:14. | |
We need to have a world-class workforce, locally so we can attract | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
some of the inward investment we need so that we can build, create | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
that economic growth that our area is crying out for. | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
Liverpool's wealth was built on global trade. | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
The Green party candidate wants new green technology to replace | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
I've made a clear commitment for strong | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
environmental protection and also for maintaining workers' rights, at | :44:37. | :44:38. | |
least at the level that they have been under within the EU. | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
Now, I would be looking for investment in | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
jobs in the low carbon sector so that we can start building a low | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
Rays of light and choppy waters, a reflection of the post Brexit | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
future for these would-be Metro Mayors. | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
Also with us is John Leech, the only non-Labour councillor | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
on Manchester City Council, and former Liberal Democrat | :45:03. | :45:04. | |
Carl Cashman there calling for a regional | :45:05. | :45:11. | |
body to represent the north-west in Brussels. | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
The feeling is that the Liberal Democrats are not accepting | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
that we are leaving the EU, because we are. | :45:18. | :45:25. | |
I think we do accept that we will be leaving the EU but we are | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
very keen to ensure that we don't go far hard Brexit and that we have a | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
good relationship with Europe after we have left the European Union | :45:33. | :45:35. | |
because as it stands at the moment, in Manchester | :45:36. | :45:37. | |
and the north-west in | :45:38. | :45:38. | |
general, most of our trade is with the European Union. | :45:39. | :45:40. | |
And your thoughts on the white paper, then? | :45:41. | :45:42. | |
Does that represent a hard Brexit, harder than you would've liked? | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
Well, I think all the noises coming out from Theresa May for a hard | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
Brexit and that is not what people voted for in the referendum. | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
Is she entitled to devise the white paper that she has, | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
Well, I think from the Lib Dems' point of | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
view, a sort of bright pink blancmange like substance | :46:05. | :46:06. | |
global Britain, they voted for a Britain | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
that faces the world and | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
actually there could be no better city to look | :46:14. | :46:15. | |
history of being the gateway to America, to see what a new Britain | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
It should be a globally facing Britain which looks | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
to our Commonwealth as trading partners, looks to the United States | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
earlier, still supports a strong European Union and I think the white | :46:28. | :46:38. | |
paper set out very well a way in which we can achieve that. | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
A lot of things in there, for example, | :46:42. | :46:43. | |
leaving the customs union which people | :46:44. | :46:44. | |
have been critical of, are | :46:45. | :46:46. | |
absolutely vital to ensure that Britain is free to make our own | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
But Ken Clarke wasn't the only one to describe the white | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
Several MPs across Europe said it is just | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
totally unrealistic so she's pitching for a deal that will not be | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
I don't think anyone thinks that every single | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
desire set out in the white paper will be achieved by the Government. | :47:03. | :47:05. | |
It is saying the deal we are aiming for. | :47:06. | :47:07. | |
What we need is a deal that has the majority of what Britain wants | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
and needs so we can go on to succeed but there will have to be some give | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
Europe will have to get some benefit as well from Britain. | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
There is a concern, Jonathan, that at the moment the opposition are not | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
in a position to adequately scrutinise and stand up to the | :47:23. | :47:24. | |
Government because there is such disunity. | :47:25. | :47:26. | |
No, that is the job of Parliament as a whole, by the way, | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
What Theresa May has promised us in the white paper is | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
that everything that is good about the European Union and none of the | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
burdens in terms of paying anything in and indeed | :47:37. | :47:38. | |
more from around the | :47:39. | :47:39. | |
Now, what the white paper doesn't really tell us is how you go | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
about delivering that, how can you have no | :47:44. | :47:45. | |
frictionless of trade with the rest of Europe | :47:46. | :47:47. | |
still and have no tariffs with other | :47:48. | :47:49. | |
That's true, parts of it are directly contradictory, Jake, | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
Well, you know, there are a lot of countries that are in a | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
customs union or trade freely with Europe | :47:57. | :47:58. | |
who also trade freely with | :47:59. | :47:59. | |
the rest of the world, Turkey does, for example. | :48:00. | :48:01. | |
So I think there are precedents out there. | :48:02. | :48:03. | |
But we are not looking for a deal which any other | :48:04. | :48:05. | |
The Prime Minister has been absolutely clear that in a | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
country that works for everyone, we have to have a British deal with | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
But I think, absolutely, we should be looking at doing free | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
trade deals with the United States, we have gone from the back of the | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
queue under President Obama to the front of the queue under President | :48:22. | :48:23. | |
Australia, New Zealand, Canada, all sort of natural allies | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
of Britain, we share a lot of things, including the same head of | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
That is to deny that we're missing out though out what we've got. | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
It's not whether these countries, we can do deals | :48:37. | :48:38. | |
We can't yet, we have got to wait a few years. | :48:39. | :48:48. | |
It's this political question for the House of | :48:49. | :48:50. | |
Commons and the House of Lords to an extent | :48:51. | :48:52. | |
as to what we will do and | :48:53. | :48:54. | |
what the Americans will ask for, number one, is that they don't like | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
the ban across the EU on home own treated beef so that is going | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
Now, do our constituents want growth home | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
We can say, yes, these countries we can do deals with them, | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
we also have to make political choices and it is unclear really | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
what the Government will do on those. | :49:12. | :49:12. | |
And, John, was it disappointing from your perspective | :49:13. | :49:14. | |
that two senior Lib Dems MPs abstained from the vote. | :49:15. | :49:17. | |
The Lib Dems are now seen as the main party when it | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
comes to opposing leaving the European Union, two of them | :49:21. | :49:22. | |
There were two MPs that abstained but the whole party | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
is united behind ensuring that people get a final vote on the final | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
deal but is brought forward by Theresa May. | :49:30. | :49:31. | |
We also very, very clear that people living in the EU, | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
British citizens should be allowed to stay, | :49:36. | :49:36. | |
EU citizens living in | :49:37. | :49:37. | |
And we are wholly united on that and the | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
ammendents that are being put forward as the bill goes forward. | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
I suspect we will get full support from all | :49:46. | :49:47. | |
There is an argument that this doesn't come from the | :49:48. | :49:54. | |
heart when it comes from the Liberal Democrats, it is just a way | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
of getting your stool out, being a bit different and gaining | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
I think that is a bit of spin from the other | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
We have always been the pro-European party. | :50:05. | :50:06. | |
We have always been the ones committed to being part of Europe | :50:07. | :50:09. | |
and trading freely with Europe and making sure that we can | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
Why not put the final deal to the public? | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
How can you have a negotiation where you are | :50:20. | :50:21. | |
having a second referendum at the end of it? | :50:22. | :50:23. | |
There is no incentive for Europe to negotiate with us if we | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
might turn around and say actually we are staying. | :50:27. | :50:28. | |
I can see where that desire comes from but how can | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
I think, Jonathan makes a very good point there and | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
what I would go and say is of course the final deal will be put | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
to the House of Commons and I pick up | :50:39. | :50:40. | |
on what Jonathan says, actually regardless of what political party | :50:41. | :50:42. | |
you are, almost regardless of the whip, this is the biggest | :50:43. | :50:45. | |
decision facing Britain for a generation, | :50:46. | :50:46. | |
probably that we were ever know, certainly in my lifetime. | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
Every member of Parliament, whichever | :50:50. | :50:50. | |
party they are from, has to play an active role | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
in scrutinising both the | :50:54. | :50:53. | |
deal and the legislation that we are currently passing. | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
And in truth, at the end of it, we will have a vote | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
on whether it is a good or bad deal the Britain and I hope and believe | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
that we will get the best deal for Britain but you are beginning to | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
How can it not be an absolute nightmare when... | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
Especially for the Labour Party, this was essentially a | :51:10. | :51:11. | |
binary choice this week, do we say yes or no to Article 50? | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
It is going to get really complicated when it | :51:16. | :51:17. | |
comes to customs agreements, when it comes to immigration, when it comes | :51:18. | :51:19. | |
How can you be an effective opposition? | :51:20. | :51:22. | |
Well, because we have people from both sides, | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
who are Labour voters on | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
both sides of the referendum and actually if you like what this | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
country needs, and I see this in my mailbag every week, | :51:35. | :51:36. | |
I think it has actually got more divided since the | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
referendum, some very bitter opinions being expressed. | :51:42. | :51:42. | |
At least Labour can represent both sides of that debate and that is | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
We can't have a sort of cultural wall between Remainers | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
and Leavers, we have got to start thinking | :51:50. | :51:50. | |
terms of what that future is, I think it is going to be an open | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
That's not what everyone who voted Leave, if we are being honest, | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
Why are Labour and the Tories so scared of giving people a | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
Don't give us what we are asking for and we will stay. | :52:05. | :52:12. | |
We had the referendum, people voted either to | :52:13. | :52:14. | |
Remain or to Leave for all different reasons. | :52:15. | :52:16. | |
When we actually get a deal on the table, we should have the | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
trust in the people that they should then did a final say. | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
But are you saying that if they reject it, John, | :52:23. | :52:24. | |
We are going to have to leave it there, fellas. | :52:25. | :52:31. | |
John Leech, many thanks for joining us. | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
Next, when you're buying a house, it's reasonable to expect to know | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
But home-buyers across the region are complaining that's | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
Here in the North West we build more leasehold houses than anywhere else | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
in the country, that means you still don't own | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
the property outright, as you would with a freehold. | :52:49. | :52:50. | |
When Katie from Ellesmere Port tried to turn her lease into freehold, | :52:51. | :52:53. | |
Katie loves her house and her garden but it's who owns the land it sits | :52:54. | :53:08. | |
I just feel like I've been completely mis-sold my | :53:09. | :53:16. | |
If I knew they could do this, I would've never | :53:17. | :53:19. | |
She bought from Bellway on a leasehold basis in 2014. | :53:20. | :53:28. | |
Then Bellway sold the freehold on to a | :53:29. | :53:30. | |
company called HomeGround, the result was a huge | :53:31. | :53:32. | |
hike in the asking place from an initial ?4500 | :53:33. | :53:34. | |
What could stop them from selling it on to | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
somebody else and then that | :53:38. | :53:38. | |
Have they given you any justification for the difference? | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
They have refused to give me a breakdown of | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
Amazingly, Katie's isn't the only leasehold issue on this one estate. | :53:49. | :53:59. | |
While some like her face high buyout charges, | :54:00. | :54:01. | |
the issue for others is | :54:02. | :54:02. | |
?30 a month, that is a lot of money to be | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
This lady, who is too frightened to be | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
identified, bought from Taylor Wimpey. | :54:10. | :54:11. | |
Her lease included a clause doubling the ground rent every ten years. | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
This year, the rent will go from ?175 to 350, | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
That impacts on the freehold price that Taylor Wimpey sold on at | :54:20. | :54:27. | |
So had it have been a flat ?175 a year and never | :54:28. | :54:37. | |
But because of the doubling, that is where the | :54:38. | :54:50. | |
massive, massive increase has come in. | :54:51. | :54:51. | |
We were their customers and I don't feel like | :54:52. | :54:53. | |
such, I feel like we have been a scapegoat for a bit more cash. | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
Taylor Wimpey says it no longer sells properties with this doubling | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
The local MP is calling for a crackdown on sales of leasehold | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
There needs to be legislation, there is absolutely no need | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
for these properties to be sold on leasehold in the current climate. | :55:09. | :55:11. | |
I can understand that the flats but for the Dutch houses, there is no | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
The Government told parliament last month it was | :55:15. | :55:21. | |
I'm very keen to it explore how we can promote greater | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
transparency and fairness and to work with all interested | :55:25. | :55:26. | |
parties to improve leaseholders' experience of | :55:27. | :55:28. | |
Katie already has 200 people on her estate, part of her | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
They are worried that any new rules will be too late for them. | :55:33. | :55:39. | |
Jake, you used to work in property law. | :55:40. | :55:41. | |
Do you think legislation here is necessary? | :55:42. | :55:43. | |
Well, I think we will have to look very carefully at it. | :55:44. | :55:54. | |
The Government is about to come out with a housing white paper which is | :55:55. | :55:57. | |
going to be a fundamental change to make sure we can | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
But if you hear stories like that, you realise that this is an absolute | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
And if the Government needs to legislate it, | :56:05. | :56:07. | |
it certainly shouldn't shy away from doing so. | :56:08. | :56:09. | |
People do have the ability to buy the freehold of their | :56:10. | :56:11. | |
property under something called the leasehold franchising | :56:12. | :56:13. | |
act which was brought in in the late 1980s. | :56:14. | :56:15. | |
If we see that developers, as appears to be the case here, | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
although I don't know all the details, are getting round that | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
ability of people to buy and own the freehold of their own home, | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
absolutely it is somewhere the Government | :56:25. | :56:25. | |
Jonathan, people might be thinking, do you know what, when | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
I bought my house, I read the small print, | :56:30. | :56:31. | |
it's their responsibility to | :56:32. | :56:32. | |
There is no service being offered here. | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
I've had a personal experience of this when I bought a | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
house in my constituency about ten years ago. | :56:40. | :56:41. | |
It is quite common and people don't realise because when | :56:42. | :56:43. | |
you are excited about a new home and you're | :56:44. | :56:45. | |
thinking about moving in and | :56:46. | :56:46. | |
perhaps you don't know the difference between leasehold and | :56:47. | :56:48. | |
freehold if it is your first property, especially. | :56:49. | :56:50. | |
I think there is a majority in the House of Commons to | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
ban this kind of practice so let's hope we see some proposals because I | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
We have seen action in other areas where | :56:59. | :57:01. | |
fees have been unreasonable and I agree absolutely, Jonathan, that if | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
we need to take action then there will be a coalition that will come | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
together to make sure that this stops. | :57:08. | :57:09. | |
The American President's made one or two headlines this week, | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
With that and the rest of the week's news, here's Mike Stevens. | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
Donald Trump's travel ban on visitors from seven mainly Muslim | :57:19. | :57:20. | |
countries prompted protests in Preston, Manchester | :57:21. | :57:22. | |
Even if we don't achieve all of our aims by | :57:23. | :57:31. | |
solidarity is really, really important. | :57:32. | :57:33. | |
Rail passengers in Merseyside face strike action | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
over Merseyrail's plans to introduce driver-only trains. | :57:38. | :57:38. | |
A meeting with the RMT union broke up without agreement. | :57:39. | :57:45. | |
Cumbria hosted an event to help householders | :57:46. | :57:47. | |
and businesses still affected by last winter's floods. | :57:48. | :57:50. | |
Residents say not enough is being done. | :57:51. | :57:52. | |
12 months on and we are still, we are not straight. | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
It'll be another 12 months before we actually get | :57:57. | :57:58. | |
The English Democrats want to abolish car parking charges | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
Stephen Morris is the party's candidate in the election | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
And BAE Systems signed an agreement worth ?100 million | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
to help design fighter jets for Turkey in Lancashire. | :58:13. | :58:15. | |
The Prime Minister and her Turkish counterpart sealed | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
Let's talk quickly about flood recovery | :58:19. | :58:28. | |
because you both live in | :58:29. | :58:29. | |
constituencies where people have been badly affected. | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
Why a year on from those bad floods are people | :58:33. | :58:34. | |
I think in a lot of cases, the damage was so bad in | :58:35. | :58:42. | |
villages, like in my constituency of Rossendale | :58:43. | :58:44. | |
literally, virtually had to knock their house | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
Do they feel that they are being adequately supported though, that | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
There's been quite a lot of support and certainly I know both Jonathan | :58:52. | :59:01. | |
and I, I'm sure, have been working with ensuring | :59:02. | :59:03. | |
companies to make sure that | :59:04. | :59:04. | |
people can get the access to funds but it just shows actually how | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
If you think that over a year since the | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
Boxing Day floods which affected parts of Lancashire and | :59:12. | :59:13. | |
greater Manchester, it really takes a long time for people to recover. | :59:14. | :59:15. | |
And same in Millbrook in Stalybridge last year. | :59:16. | :59:17. | |
Absolutely, Millbrook and Hollingworth as well, the other side | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
Insurance companies are relatively good in my | :59:21. | :59:22. | |
experience, you know, the level of disruption, | :59:23. | :59:24. | |
I think people if they haven't experienced it or seen it, the | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
Do you think central government should be doing more? | :59:28. | :59:30. | |
I think what a lot of people feel they need at the time, and it | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
is very hard to see how this could be offered, | :59:35. | :59:36. | |
is essentially a flood emergency service that comes and | :59:37. | :59:38. | |
The fire brigade's job is different to that, it is not to get | :59:39. | :59:45. | |
people back on their feet and I think council staff do | :59:46. | :59:47. | |
a brilliant job but it is hard but I think more | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
support, particularly the assurance that | :59:51. | :59:51. | |
if you have been hit by a | :59:52. | :59:53. | |
flood, it won't happen again, that's what people really want. | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
I can't not ask you this, there has been reports | :59:59. | :00:00. | |
this week that the English Democrats candidate for Manchester | :00:01. | :00:02. | |
Mayor Stephen Morris said that he will invite Donald Trump to | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
Manchester should he become the mayor of greater Manchester, I'm | :00:06. | :00:08. | |
Should Donald Trump be invited on a state visit to | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
I mean, going to Buckingham Palace might be one | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
but coming to Manchester is an even bigger one. | :00:16. | :00:17. | |
Well, I'm not a Greater Manchester MP but the last | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
American president to come to Manchester was President Lincoln | :00:23. | :00:24. | |
and I think maybe he's got a slightly better record | :00:25. | :00:26. | |
What are your thoughts on the Prime Minister going out there | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
and making friends with who essentially has been the most | :00:31. | :00:32. | |
I don't think he is the most unpopular man | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
I think it is really important that we do everything we | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
can to make sure that the special relationship with Britain and | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
We may not love who is in the White House, | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
Was she a bit quick off the blocks to invite him on that state visit? | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
The Prime Minister has a duty to go out there | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
and ensure that Britain has a strong relationship with America | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
which will become more important to us now Britain | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
Has she jeopardised our reputation elsewhere? | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
If the leaders of Germany, Canada, Australia can have that | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
relationship, that pragmatic relationship but also say, you know, | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
a picture of a American five year old child handcuffed at an airport, | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
that's unacceptable, that's divisive and damaging | :01:10. | :01:10. | |
to our national interests in terms of national | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
I think she far too quick and I think she's unfortunately | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
damanged the reputation of the country aboard. | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
My thanks to Jake Berry and Jonathan Reynolds | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
Lucy Powell and David Rutley join us next week. | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
Now I'll hand you back to Andrew Neil in London. | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
programme at another time an airport expansion, but thank you to both of | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
you for being here. Back to you, Andrew. | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
Will the Government's plan to boost house-building | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
Could a handful of Conservative MPs cause problems for | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
And what is President Trump going to do next? | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
You have been following the genesis of this housing white paper. What do | :01:52. | :02:09. | |
you make of it? I think it will be quite spectacular, pretty radical | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
stuff. We heard bits about beating up on developers. I understand it | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
will be a whack, walk, covering every single problem with housing | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
supply and trying to solve it. Which means bad news if you are a huge fan | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
of the green belt, because they will go round that the other way by | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
forcing large quotas on councils are making it down to councils where | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
they build. If you fill up your brown space in towns they will have | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
to trigger the exceptional circumstances bit of the bill to | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
beat on green belts. Beating up developers, opening up the market | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
for renters across the board. And Theresa May, one of the most | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
defining thing she could do on the domestic agenda. I am not as excited | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
as Tom about this. I look back to 2004, do you remember the Kate | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
Barker report? Successive governments, successive prime | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
ministers have been promising to address the housing shortage. In | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
2004 Kate Barker recommended hundreds of thousands new homes. | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
Gordon Brown talked about 3 million new homes by 2020 in 2007. It never | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
happens. The reason is at the end of the day this is local politics, | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
local councillors need to keep their seats and they won't keep their | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
seats if there are hugely controversial developments locally | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
that they support. Yes, the government can and are proposing to | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
overrule councils that don't back local developments, but they may | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
find themselves completely inundated with those cases. I think that is | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
the whole point of it, to take on those NIMBY often Tory councils and | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
force them to build. I can't think of a better defining issue for | :03:51. | :03:58. | |
Theresa May than sticking one in the eye of some quite well off half Tory | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
countryside councils. The government gives councils a quota of homes they | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
have to fill, if they don't have to fill that all run out overland to | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
fill the quota, the government then comes in and tells them they have to | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
built on the green belt? How is that going to work? At the moment the | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
green belt is absolutely sacrosanct in British politics. They'll have to | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
do some work on educating people on what green belts means. Potato | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
farms, golf courses... At the moment the idea people have of the green | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
belt being verdant fields needs to be dismantled. You are right. I | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
agree with Tom, 11 million people in the private rental sector in the UK. | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
In the last election more voted Labour than conservative. This is an | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
area where Theresa May would look to expand her vote. The problem has | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
always been, the same problem we have with pension policy and why | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
pensioners have done better than working families in recent years. | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
They are older and they vote more and anything to the detriment of | :05:01. | :05:08. | |
older people. I wonder how they will get private money to come in on | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
anything like this go they would need to have a huge expansion? There | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
is a huge amount of speculation and one of the thing that locks up the | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
system as you have people buying land, taking out a stake of land in | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
the hope that one point it may at some point free up. At the end of | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
the day, unless you have councils far more willing to quickly fast | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
track these applications, which they won't for the reason I said before, | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
it's a very long-term investment. Ed Miliband proposed three-year leases | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
in which the rent could only go up by an agreed formula, probably the | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
three years to give the young families a certain stability over | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
that period. He had a use it or lose it rules for planning development, | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
if you don't use it you lose the planning rights. Somebody else gets | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
it. The Tories disparaged that at the time. This is at the centre of | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
their policy now. This is probably item number four of | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
Ed Miliband's policy book Theresa May has wholesale pinched in the | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
last six months or so. Why not? I think if you look at the change in | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
mood across housing and planning over the last 5-6 years, it used to | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
be an issue very much of green belt versus London planners. Now you have | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
grandparents living in houses in the countryside, knowing their | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
grandchildren can't get on the housing ladder any longer. Maybe a | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
bit more intervention in the market, tougher on renting conditions, maybe | :06:39. | :06:40. | |
that is exactly what the country needs. Will they meet the 1 million | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
target? It would be a defiance of every political thing that has | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
happened in the last ten years. I think Tom is right, if there is only | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
one difference between Theresa May and David Cameron it's the | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
willingness of the state to intervene. When Ed Miliband said | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
that he was seen as communism, but Theresa May can get away with it. | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
How serious is this talk of a couple of dozen Tories who were very loyal | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
over voting for the principle of Article 50 but may now be tempted to | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
vote for some amendments to Article 50 legislation that they would find | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
quite attractive? I think that threat has certainly been taken | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
seriously by levers. I spoke to the campaign group Leaves Means Leave | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
last night. The figure they mentioned was up to 20 remaining | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
Tories. That sounds a lot to me but that is what they are concerned | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
about and those Tories would come together with Labour and the SNP to | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
vote for that amendment. Although that amendment sounds rather nice | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
and democratic, actually in the eyes of many levers that is a wrecking | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
amendment. Because what you are doing is giving Parliament a sort of | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
veto over whatever deal Theresa May brings back. What they want is the | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
vote to be before that deal is finalised. It isn't necessarily the | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
case that if Parliament decided they didn't like that deal we would just | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
go to WTO, we would fall out of the European Union. There are mixed | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
views as to whether we might remain in and things could be extended. My | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
understanding is the people making the amendments, they won any deal | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
that is done to be brought to Parliament in time, so that if | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
Parliament fancies it it's done, but if it does and it doesn't just mean | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
go to WTO rules. There will be time to go back, renegotiate or think | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
again? The question is where it puts Britain's negotiating hand. Nine of | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
the options... Once we trigger Article 50 the two negotiation | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
begins on the power switches to Europe. They can run out the clock | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
and it will be worse for us than them. I don't think either option is | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
particularly appealing. I think what seems like a rather Serena week for | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
Article 50 this week isn't going to be reflective of what will happen | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
next. The way the government's position is at the moment, if at the | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
end the only choice Parliament has is to vote for the deal or crash out | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
on WTO rules, then even the remainder is going to vote for the | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
deal even if they don't like it, because they would regard crashing | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
out as the worst of all possible results. Possibly. It will be a | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
great game of bluff if Theresa May fights off any of these amendments | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
on Wednesday and gets a straightforward deal or no Deal | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
vote. I have a funny feeling this amendment, if it's chosen, we must | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
remember because we don't know if they will choose this amendment, if | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
it does go to a vote on Wednesday it will be very tight indeed. Remember, | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
one final thing Theresa May can do if she gets Parliament voting | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
against, as Isabel would have it, she could try to get a new | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
parliament and go for a general election. And probably get a huge | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
majority to do so. The Lords, it goes there after the February | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
recess. They are very pro-Europe, but does their instinct for | :10:13. | :10:21. | |
self-preservation override that? I think that is it. A Tory Lord said | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
this morning I will vote to block it on a conscience measure, but you | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
have the likes of Bill Cash, veteran Eurosceptics, suddenly converted to | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
the Lords reform saying is an outrage. I doubt they will vote for | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
their own demise, to hasten their own demise by blocking it. What did | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
you make of Doctor Gorka smart fascinating. Cut from the same cloth | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
as his boss. I thought it was extraordinary listening to him, | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
saying everything is going dutifully to plan. But at the end of the day, | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
what they are doing is what people in America voted for Trump to do. If | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
you look at Lord Ashcroft's polling on why America voted for Trump, they | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
went into this with their eyes wide open. One of the top fears among | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
American voters, particularly Republican leading ones was | :11:13. | :11:14. | |
America's immigration policy is or could be letting in terror arrests. | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
As far as he is concerned, he is doing what he was elected to do. | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
This whole year is turning into a wonderful year long lecture series | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
on how democracy works at a fundamental level. I'm not sure | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
anyone wanted it but it's what we've got. This same in the way we've been | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
talking about direct democracy and Parliamentary democracy. The same is | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
happening in America between executive and judicial branches. We | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
are seeing the limits of presidential power. Regardless of | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
the fact that people voted for Trump they voted for senators. The judge | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
who blocks this was appointed by George W Bush. So-called Judge | :11:51. | :11:58. | |
Eckert Mac so-called George W Bush! It's fascinating we're having all | :11:59. | :12:00. | |
these conversations now that I never bought five years ago we would be | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
having at such a fundamental level. Has the media yet worked out how to | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
cover the Trump administration or has he got us behaving like headless | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
chickens? He says something incendiary and we all run over to do | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
that and when you pick it off it turns out not to be as incendiary as | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
we thought? And then back doing something and we all rush over | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
there. Is he making fools of us? Is exactly what he did in the election | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
campaign. So many quick and fast outrageous comments frontrunner on a | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
daily basis, no one single one of them had full news cycle time to be | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
pored over and examined. I think there is a problem with this. | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
Although he keeps the upper hand, keeps the agenda and keeps on the | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
populist ground, the problem is it easy to campaign like that. If you | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
are governing in a state of semi-hysteria, I wonder how long the | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
American public will be comfortable with that. They don't really want | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
their government to be swirling chaos all the time, as fascinating | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
as it might be on TV. They will be exhausted by it, I already am. I | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
have been interviewing White House administration official since 1976 | :13:12. | :13:13. | |
and that is the first time someone hasn't given me a straight answer on | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
America supporting the EU. That is a different world. | :13:18. | :13:19. | |
Jo Coburn will be on BBC Two tomorrow at midday with | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
the Daily Politics - and I'll be back here | :13:24. | :13:25. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday - it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:26. | :14:04. | |
TV: He's not your father. WOMAN GASPS | :14:05. | :14:17. | |
so why not pay your TV licence in weekly instalments, too? | :14:18. | :14:30. |