19/03/2017 Sunday Politics North West


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS


19/03/2017

Andrew Neil and Nina Warhurst with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Andrew is joined by head of NHS Providers Chris Hopson, Nick Clegg MP and Andrew Gwynne MP.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 19/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:35.:00:38.

She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence,

:00:39.:00:42.

After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects.

:00:43.:00:55.

With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election,

:00:56.:00:57.

Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live.

:00:58.:01:01.

NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission

:01:02.:01:04.

impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket,

:01:05.:01:08.

unless hospitals are given more cash this year.

:01:09.:01:12.

The chief executive of NHS Providers joins me live.

:01:13.:01:18.

Move over George Clooney and Julia Roberts,

:01:19.:01:21.

make way for Burley and Wigan - our councils in Cannes for some

:01:22.:01:24.

All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking

:01:25.:01:37.

to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg

:01:38.:01:39.

from his party's spring conference in York.

:01:40.:01:42.

With me here in the studio, throughout the programme,

:01:43.:01:46.

three of the country's top political commentators:

:01:47.:01:48.

Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.

:01:49.:01:54.

They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp.

:01:55.:01:56.

So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up.

:01:57.:01:59.

As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU,

:02:00.:02:05.

the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum

:02:06.:02:08.

on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts

:02:09.:02:12.

to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key

:02:13.:02:15.

budget measure just one week after announcing it.

:02:16.:02:20.

Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week

:02:21.:02:22.

Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First

:02:23.:02:39.

Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise.

:02:40.:02:41.

She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK

:02:42.:02:43.

By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's

:02:44.:02:48.

future will be decided, not just by me, the

:02:49.:02:50.

Scottish Government, or the

:02:51.:02:51.

SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland.

:02:52.:02:54.

Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject

:02:55.:03:04.

amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to

:03:05.:03:07.

The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned

:03:08.:03:21.

attempts to change it and it becomes law.

:03:22.:03:23.

But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected.

:03:24.:03:30.

Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon.

:03:31.:03:32.

We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the

:03:33.:03:49.

We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling

:03:50.:03:51.

the planned rise in National Insurance for

:03:52.:04:02.

the self-employed announced the budget.

:04:03.:04:04.

It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon.

:04:05.:04:05.

The trend towards greater self-employment does create a

:04:06.:04:07.

We will bring forward further proposals

:04:08.:04:10.

but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this

:04:11.:04:13.

It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here.

:04:14.:04:17.

By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues

:04:18.:04:20.

fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax

:04:21.:04:24.

Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the

:04:25.:04:33.

Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending

:04:34.:04:35.

But that's not what the Prime Minister

:04:36.:04:38.

Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a

:04:39.:04:45.

We should be working together, not pulling apart.

:04:46.:04:50.

We should be working together to get that

:04:51.:04:51.

right deal for Scotland, that

:04:52.:04:53.

So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and

:04:54.:04:58.

so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time.

:04:59.:05:01.

Friday and time for the faithful to gather.

:05:02.:05:03.

SNP activists at their spring conference

:05:04.:05:05.

Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister

:05:06.:05:16.

promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain.

:05:17.:05:19.

At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly

:05:20.:05:22.

I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The

:05:23.:05:28.

Evening Standard and, you know, with so many

:05:29.:05:30.

big issues in our world what

:05:31.:05:32.

good analysis, great news journalism.

:05:33.:05:37.

It's a really important time for good journalism that The

:05:38.:05:42.

Evening Standard is going to provide.

:05:43.:05:44.

There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals

:05:45.:05:51.

Under my proposals we keep the Barnett

:05:52.:05:56.

Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the

:05:57.:05:59.

and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament.

:06:00.:06:04.

And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the

:06:05.:06:07.

What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government,

:06:08.:06:24.

Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign

:06:25.:06:29.

of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the

:06:30.:06:32.

events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with

:06:33.:06:40.

the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy

:06:41.:06:44.

periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and

:06:45.:06:49.

try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable.

:06:50.:06:54.

Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or

:06:55.:06:58.

so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily

:06:59.:07:01.

the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel

:07:02.:07:05.

more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential

:07:06.:07:09.

drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your

:07:10.:07:13.

original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic

:07:14.:07:17.

quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory

:07:18.:07:22.

backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school

:07:23.:07:26.

funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will

:07:27.:07:29.

get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on.

:07:30.:07:34.

Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister

:07:35.:07:39.

said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime

:07:40.:07:43.

Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done

:07:44.:07:48.

quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in

:07:49.:07:53.

frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said,

:07:54.:07:56.

OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has

:07:57.:08:00.

already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with

:08:01.:08:03.

Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle

:08:04.:08:07.

for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality

:08:08.:08:12.

bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same

:08:13.:08:16.

time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge

:08:17.:08:19.

to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and

:08:20.:08:25.

Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it

:08:26.:08:31.

reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is

:08:32.:08:37.

over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is

:08:38.:08:40.

how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is

:08:41.:08:44.

not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a

:08:45.:08:47.

normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more

:08:48.:08:51.

mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible

:08:52.:08:57.

workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to

:08:58.:09:00.

call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she

:09:01.:09:05.

tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a

:09:06.:09:08.

second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the

:09:09.:09:12.

rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this

:09:13.:09:15.

week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to

:09:16.:09:20.

her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She

:09:21.:09:25.

expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for

:09:26.:09:29.

her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows

:09:30.:09:34.

66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off

:09:35.:09:40.

with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second

:09:41.:09:45.

referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined

:09:46.:09:48.

with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her

:09:49.:09:51.

calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead,

:09:52.:09:55.

I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your

:09:56.:10:00.

desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a

:10:01.:10:04.

fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak

:10:05.:10:07.

opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most

:10:08.:10:13.

daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I

:10:14.:10:17.

think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an

:10:18.:10:21.

election. I don't think she has thought about how you would

:10:22.:10:23.

manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the

:10:24.:10:28.

energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning

:10:29.:10:34.

the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the

:10:35.:10:38.

small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do.

:10:39.:10:42.

Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be

:10:43.:10:45.

difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of

:10:46.:10:50.

going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't

:10:51.:10:54.

and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which

:10:55.:10:58.

is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as

:10:59.:11:00.

commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but

:11:01.:11:04.

they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in

:11:05.:11:09.

unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because

:11:10.:11:11.

she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through

:11:12.:11:15.

Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an

:11:16.:11:18.

early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write

:11:19.:11:23.

a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's

:11:24.:11:28.

box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections.

:11:29.:11:32.

The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may

:11:33.:11:35.

replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an

:11:36.:11:39.

election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself

:11:40.:11:44.

you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall

:11:45.:11:45.

see. So if Theresa May did go

:11:46.:11:46.

for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns

:11:47.:11:49.

and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we

:11:50.:12:00.

have just been talking about, executed one of the most

:12:01.:12:02.

embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a

:12:03.:12:06.

torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still

:12:07.:12:10.

so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an

:12:11.:12:15.

early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing

:12:16.:12:17.

ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that

:12:18.:12:21.

we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only

:12:22.:12:26.

challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative

:12:27.:12:32.

for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So,

:12:33.:12:39.

would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't

:12:40.:12:42.

want this government to be in power so of course if there is an

:12:43.:12:45.

opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a

:12:46.:12:49.

better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course

:12:50.:12:54.

we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote

:12:55.:12:59.

in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an

:13:00.:13:03.

opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in

:13:04.:13:07.

government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with

:13:08.:13:11.

the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very

:13:12.:13:14.

seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but

:13:15.:13:18.

would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to

:13:19.:13:23.

be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to

:13:24.:13:26.

bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the

:13:27.:13:29.

British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together

:13:30.:13:34.

Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a

:13:35.:13:38.

General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance

:13:39.:13:43.

of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an

:13:44.:13:47.

early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election?

:13:48.:13:51.

It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to

:13:52.:13:55.

dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories

:13:56.:13:58.

in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that

:13:59.:14:02.

opportunity to put that case to the British people.

:14:03.:14:05.

Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all

:14:06.:14:13.

but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one?

:14:14.:14:16.

How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of

:14:17.:14:19.

money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the

:14:20.:14:23.

Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it

:14:24.:14:29.

inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to

:14:30.:14:36.

build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We

:14:37.:14:42.

have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are

:14:43.:14:46.

taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian

:14:47.:14:49.

Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the

:14:50.:14:53.

Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the

:14:54.:14:57.

support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the

:14:58.:15:00.

electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready

:15:01.:15:05.

for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got

:15:06.:15:09.

your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the

:15:10.:15:14.

shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if

:15:15.:15:18.

there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these

:15:19.:15:21.

things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its

:15:22.:15:27.

annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates

:15:28.:15:32.

policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last

:15:33.:15:35.

Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a

:15:36.:15:39.

fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much

:15:40.:15:44.

extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going

:15:45.:15:48.

to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called.

:15:49.:15:52.

I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We

:15:53.:15:57.

have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out

:15:58.:16:02.

Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there

:16:03.:16:06.

hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war

:16:07.:16:10.

footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that,

:16:11.:16:15.

can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under

:16:16.:16:20.

a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have.

:16:21.:16:26.

And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an

:16:27.:16:30.

election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th

:16:31.:16:34.

of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't

:16:35.:16:40.

having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy

:16:41.:16:44.

development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think

:16:45.:16:48.

you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll

:16:49.:16:52.

ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the

:16:53.:16:58.

Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in

:16:59.:17:01.

safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long

:17:02.:17:06.

does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the

:17:07.:17:11.

Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour

:17:12.:17:15.

Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party

:17:16.:17:19.

merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in

:17:20.:17:25.

case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be

:17:26.:17:30.

talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation

:17:31.:17:34.

about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually

:17:35.:17:38.

for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting

:17:39.:17:42.

with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the

:17:43.:17:46.

prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally,

:17:47.:17:52.

given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its

:17:53.:17:56.

mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be

:17:57.:17:59.

about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17

:18:00.:18:05.

behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as

:18:06.:18:10.

an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you

:18:11.:18:13.

still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn?

:18:14.:18:19.

These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was

:18:20.:18:26.

settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years.

:18:27.:18:30.

Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it

:18:31.:18:35.

is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it

:18:36.:18:41.

is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will

:18:42.:18:45.

you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future

:18:46.:18:49.

looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds,

:18:50.:18:58.

where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit

:18:59.:19:01.

cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make

:19:02.:19:04.

sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to

:19:05.:19:07.

fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to

:19:08.:19:10.

make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour

:19:11.:19:17.

returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us.

:19:18.:19:22.

And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring

:19:23.:19:25.

conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg.

:19:26.:19:27.

Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps

:19:28.:19:35.

Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In

:19:36.:19:41.

what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not

:19:42.:19:49.

saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim

:19:50.:19:55.

Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware

:19:56.:19:58.

what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was

:19:59.:20:05.

arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound

:20:06.:20:11.

supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as

:20:12.:20:17.

Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so

:20:18.:20:21.

ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit,

:20:22.:20:25.

Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more

:20:26.:20:30.

isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach

:20:31.:20:34.

that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans

:20:35.:20:39.

to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump,

:20:40.:20:48.

Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU,

:20:49.:20:53.

nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In

:20:54.:20:57.

what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has

:20:58.:21:04.

interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote

:21:05.:21:09.

you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over

:21:10.:21:14.

the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have

:21:15.:21:18.

to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was

:21:19.:21:22.

in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not

:21:23.:21:27.

right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we

:21:28.:21:33.

have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald

:21:34.:21:39.

Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different

:21:40.:21:45.

view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not

:21:46.:21:51.

antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not

:21:52.:21:56.

aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the

:21:57.:22:00.

British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by

:22:01.:22:06.

choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing

:22:07.:22:14.

so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self

:22:15.:22:18.

harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the

:22:19.:22:22.

threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so

:22:23.:22:27.

ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view

:22:28.:22:32.

speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not

:22:33.:22:41.

challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs

:22:42.:22:45.

that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring

:22:46.:22:50.

conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long

:22:51.:22:55.

time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a

:22:56.:23:00.

realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards

:23:01.:23:05.

that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a

:23:06.:23:12.

realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want

:23:13.:23:16.

that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the

:23:17.:23:21.

recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People

:23:22.:23:25.

often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election

:23:26.:23:30.

we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we

:23:31.:23:34.

have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in

:23:35.:23:43.

Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way

:23:44.:23:49.

seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted

:23:50.:23:58.

for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling

:23:59.:24:01.

increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party

:24:02.:24:05.

because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable

:24:06.:24:08.

from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk

:24:09.:24:15.

on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite

:24:16.:24:19.

them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across

:24:20.:24:24.

parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster

:24:25.:24:28.

village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky,

:24:29.:24:33.

inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people

:24:34.:24:36.

on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the

:24:37.:24:48.

ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence

:24:49.:24:53.

to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be

:24:54.:24:57.

thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we

:24:58.:25:06.

are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the

:25:07.:25:10.

referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated

:25:11.:25:14.

ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something

:25:15.:25:18.

unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can

:25:19.:25:23.

guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the

:25:24.:25:34.

British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work

:25:35.:25:39.

out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she

:25:40.:25:43.

will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new

:25:44.:25:49.

trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of

:25:50.:25:54.

that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there

:25:55.:25:58.

will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use

:25:59.:26:03.

this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling

:26:04.:26:10.

back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or

:26:11.:26:14.

thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were

:26:15.:26:19.

promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this

:26:20.:26:26.

glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the

:26:27.:26:30.

world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of

:26:31.:26:34.

years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to

:26:35.:26:38.

take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of

:26:39.:26:42.

quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always

:26:43.:26:50.

welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is

:26:51.:26:56.

certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you

:26:57.:26:59.

spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or

:27:00.:27:06.

spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper

:27:07.:27:13.

editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's

:27:14.:27:20.

feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law

:27:21.:27:26.

against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will

:27:27.:27:30.

again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also

:27:31.:27:37.

wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in

:27:38.:27:41.

the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his

:27:42.:27:47.

self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on

:27:48.:27:53.

a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you

:27:54.:27:56.

will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us.

:27:57.:28:00.

Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been

:28:01.:28:03.

warning the health service needs more money to help it meet

:28:04.:28:06.

But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered

:28:07.:28:09.

no immediate relief, and today the head of

:28:10.:28:11.

the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds

:28:12.:28:13.

of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency

:28:14.:28:16.

care and planned operations, unless the Government

:28:17.:28:17.

Warnings over funding are not exactly new.

:28:18.:28:25.

Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens,

:28:26.:28:28.

published his plan for the future of the health service.

:28:29.:28:32.

In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England

:28:33.:28:35.

would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020.

:28:36.:28:38.

To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money

:28:39.:28:41.

from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra,

:28:42.:28:44.

and that the health service could account for the rest by making

:28:45.:28:47.

The Government says it's given the health service more than what it

:28:48.:28:55.

asked for, and that NHS in England will have received

:28:56.:28:57.

That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair

:28:58.:29:02.

of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more

:29:03.:29:05.

like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget

:29:06.:29:08.

have been cut, putting pressure on the front line.

:29:09.:29:14.

Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished

:29:15.:29:17.

the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts

:29:18.:29:19.

from the Government, the NHS is likely to record

:29:20.:29:22.

Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A

:29:23.:29:27.

departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being

:29:28.:29:29.

This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care

:29:30.:29:37.

but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn

:29:38.:29:41.

that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked

:29:42.:29:44.

And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS

:29:45.:29:49.

Providers in England, Chris Hopson.

:29:50.:29:55.

Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra

:29:56.:30:02.

money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part

:30:03.:30:06.

of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a

:30:07.:30:10.

bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so

:30:11.:30:15.

on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18

:30:16.:30:18.

billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising

:30:19.:30:22.

more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that

:30:23.:30:26.

is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS

:30:27.:30:31.

knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are

:30:32.:30:35.

somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020.

:30:36.:30:42.

Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22

:30:43.:30:50.

billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year

:30:51.:30:55.

and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25

:30:56.:31:00.

billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the

:31:01.:31:05.

2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to

:31:06.:31:09.

which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period

:31:10.:31:14.

and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen

:31:15.:31:18.

before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come

:31:19.:31:24.

onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some

:31:25.:31:28.

extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument

:31:29.:31:32.

about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this

:31:33.:31:37.

extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years?

:31:38.:31:41.

Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward

:31:42.:31:46.

view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the

:31:47.:31:50.

centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms

:31:51.:31:53.

length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was

:31:54.:31:57.

consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that

:31:58.:32:01.

the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS

:32:02.:32:06.

where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every

:32:07.:32:10.

year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able

:32:11.:32:14.

to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding

:32:15.:32:20.

increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release

:32:21.:32:24.

we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would

:32:25.:32:29.

not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in

:32:30.:32:35.

other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts

:32:36.:32:38.

Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for.

:32:39.:32:43.

Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you.

:32:44.:32:50.

How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we

:32:51.:32:53.

estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you

:32:54.:32:57.

clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour

:32:58.:33:03.

A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and

:33:04.:33:07.

operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900

:33:08.:33:12.

million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you

:33:13.:33:16.

would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of

:33:17.:33:20.

those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion

:33:21.:33:24.

on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5

:33:25.:33:29.

billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is

:33:30.:33:32.

important we should make an important distinction about the NHS

:33:33.:33:38.

versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour

:33:39.:33:41.

government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return

:33:42.:33:45.

for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution,

:33:46.:33:50.

the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery

:33:51.:33:54.

we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would

:33:55.:33:58.

want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for

:33:59.:34:02.

it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest

:34:03.:34:07.

financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going

:34:08.:34:11.

up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand

:34:12.:34:16.

go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I

:34:17.:34:21.

think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going

:34:22.:34:24.

to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I

:34:25.:34:29.

think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS

:34:30.:34:33.

as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have

:34:34.:34:37.

got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36

:34:38.:34:42.

office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to

:34:43.:34:48.

1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know

:34:49.:34:52.

in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the

:34:53.:34:57.

last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement

:34:58.:35:00.

gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25

:35:01.:35:08.

billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But

:35:09.:35:11.

having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where

:35:12.:35:14.

there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it

:35:15.:35:20.

for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its

:35:21.:35:24.

contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as

:35:25.:35:28.

efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for

:35:29.:35:33.

you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise

:35:34.:35:37.

those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would

:35:38.:35:41.

go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a

:35:42.:35:45.

deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the

:35:46.:35:48.

moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release

:35:49.:35:53.

land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts

:35:54.:36:05.

which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous

:36:06.:36:07.

organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales.

:36:08.:36:09.

Have you raised that with the government?

:36:10.:36:09.

Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard

:36:10.:36:22.

somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big

:36:23.:36:27.

salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for

:36:28.:36:31.

the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more

:36:32.:36:34.

money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being

:36:35.:36:38.

properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And

:36:39.:36:43.

yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in

:36:44.:36:50.

a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I

:36:51.:36:53.

have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight

:36:54.:36:55.

in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community,

:36:56.:36:59.

mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most

:37:00.:37:02.

complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to

:37:03.:37:06.

be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we

:37:07.:37:10.

should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid

:37:11.:37:13.

are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion

:37:14.:37:19.

a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There

:37:20.:37:26.

was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the

:37:27.:37:29.

problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need

:37:30.:37:33.

and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having

:37:34.:37:37.

to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem

:37:38.:37:41.

and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those

:37:42.:37:47.

amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas

:37:48.:37:52.

is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you

:37:53.:37:56.

could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication,

:37:57.:37:59.

what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government

:38:00.:38:05.

has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing

:38:06.:38:10.

funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can

:38:11.:38:14.

I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the

:38:15.:38:19.

first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we

:38:20.:38:25.

can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work

:38:26.:38:29.

in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very

:38:30.:38:33.

important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the

:38:34.:38:37.

financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being

:38:38.:38:41.

asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of

:38:42.:38:44.

time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me.

:38:45.:38:46.

It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:38:47.:38:48.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:38:49.:38:51.

I'm Nina Warhurst, coming up in the North West:

:38:52.:39:02.

Move over George and Julia, make way for Burnley and Wigan -

:39:03.:39:05.

our councils in Cannes for some pre-Brexit business.

:39:06.:39:10.

Yes, this place is normally a playground for the stars, but this

:39:11.:39:13.

week the Northern Powerhouse headed to Provence.

:39:14.:39:16.

Phil McCann's on the Cote d'Azur and I'm not.

:39:17.:39:21.

But we have the Manchester Ship Canal and sunshine and light,

:39:22.:39:24.

Antoinette Sandbach is the Conservative MP for Eddisbury,

:39:25.:39:33.

and Jim McMahon the Labour MP for Oldham West and Royton.

:39:34.:39:36.

We start with the Conservative Party's fine by the Electoral

:39:37.:39:39.

Commission for failing to report election spending properly.

:39:40.:39:42.

Last year, police were investigating seven current or former North West

:39:43.:39:46.

MPs whose constituencies were visited by this battlebus

:39:47.:39:50.

That's because costs like these overnight stays at the Holiday Inn

:39:51.:39:56.

in Bolton were declared as national spending, rather than as part

:39:57.:39:59.

Bury North's David Nuttall - with the bus here -

:40:00.:40:05.

was one of three Greater Manchester MPs under investigation.

:40:06.:40:09.

He and Mary Robinson in Cheadle say they've had no update,

:40:10.:40:13.

but Hazel Grove MP Will Wragg - seen with David Cameron here -

:40:14.:40:18.

says his case has been referred to the Crown Prosecution Service.

:40:19.:40:22.

And Lancashire Police are still investigating Rossendale

:40:23.:40:24.

Here's what David Nuttall told us last year.

:40:25.:40:33.

Now, all the candidates where it visited all put it down as local...

:40:34.:40:36.

This is my fifth general election, and every general

:40:37.:40:43.

election I've fought, we've dealt with these

:40:44.:40:45.

That was his defence this week, as well as Will Wragg,

:40:46.:40:50.

Antoinette, the defence seems to be, that's the way it is,

:40:51.:40:55.

that's the way it's always been - that doesn't wash with

:40:56.:40:58.

This was national campaigning, and the Conservative Party have

:40:59.:41:03.

accepted, with those fines, that they made errors in declaring

:41:04.:41:07.

I know that Labour had a battle bus that came and stayed

:41:08.:41:13.

in the Nunsmere Hotel, a very nice hotel in my constituency.

:41:14.:41:16.

I sure it was declared, but they too have been fined for mistakes,

:41:17.:41:20.

Clearly, there is an issue of a national spend,

:41:21.:41:27.

but I don't think it can be blamed on the individual MPs.

:41:28.:41:30.

Jim, is that a point, they've been notable

:41:31.:41:33.

We've approached several to get a comment on this.

:41:34.:41:37.

Is it exactly the same for the Labour party?

:41:38.:41:39.

I think we should separate out the individual MPs

:41:40.:41:41.

I think all of which do a decent job, regardless of party politics,

:41:42.:41:46.

in terms of providing a decent representation

:41:47.:41:48.

And election law, which is pretty clear in terms of how

:41:49.:41:53.

you fight elections, where funding ought to come

:41:54.:41:56.

from and how you contribute funding in different places.

:41:57.:41:59.

Sometimes that's complicated, particularly in national campaigns,

:42:00.:42:02.

where there is a degree of national party involvement.

:42:03.:42:05.

Often, that's done in a way without the candidate

:42:06.:42:08.

and agent being spoken to, or discussed when the battle bus

:42:09.:42:12.

So you do have sympathy with any party's MPs then?

:42:13.:42:15.

I think maybe where my sympathies end is that, actually,

:42:16.:42:19.

fundamentally, the responsibility lies with the candidate

:42:20.:42:22.

and the agents to make sure the declaration is correct.

:42:23.:42:25.

OK, but I've stood in elections where unions have written out

:42:26.:42:28.

With a very strong political message, which doesn't count as part

:42:29.:42:34.

of Labour Party spend and never has done.

:42:35.:42:37.

So maybe there are lessons to be learned...

:42:38.:42:40.

I would say, that would be trade unions writing to their own members,

:42:41.:42:43.

giving a view about how they view the candidates.

:42:44.:42:46.

And that's clearly designed to influence the way they vote,

:42:47.:42:48.

and to influence them to vote Labour, and that's never, ever

:42:49.:42:52.

But that doesn't come from central party spending.

:42:53.:42:57.

And let's be clear, the amount we're talking about is 0.6%

:42:58.:43:00.

The concern from the Electoral Commission is, once again,

:43:01.:43:06.

voter's confidence in democratic elections are undermined.

:43:07.:43:10.

So regardless of the point that it's a tiny fraction...

:43:11.:43:13.

The Conservatives underspent on their national

:43:14.:43:15.

The budget should have been easier to account for in that sense!

:43:16.:43:21.

And the way that the Electoral Commission has communicated this,

:43:22.:43:24.

I think, has helped contribute to that lack of confidence.

:43:25.:43:28.

I think it could perhaps have been approached in a different way.

:43:29.:43:32.

But how do you explain then, the Electoral Commission,

:43:33.:43:34.

it's very unusual for them, by the way, to get into this.

:43:35.:43:37.

They like to be a bit under the radar when it comes to getting

:43:38.:43:40.

They were very clear that the Conservative Party

:43:41.:43:43.

It's cost the public money, because the Conservative Party

:43:44.:43:47.

didn't provide answers to the questions of the report.

:43:48.:43:49.

We're going to have to move on, and we'll find out in May

:43:50.:43:54.

whether the CPS move forward with prosecutions.

:43:55.:43:58.

From battlebuses to Brexit, and we're officially under starter's

:43:59.:44:00.

orders after both Houses gave their go-ahead to trigger

:44:01.:44:03.

But our council leaders aren't sitting around waiting

:44:04.:44:07.

for the Prime Minister to fire that starting pistol.

:44:08.:44:11.

They've been looking for a head start in the south of France.

:44:12.:44:14.

And poor old Phil McCann was forced to go too.

:44:15.:44:19.

Normally in Cannes, it's Julia and George on the red carpet.

:44:20.:44:23.

At this time of year, it is more about Wigan and Wirral.

:44:24.:44:26.

This annual event is Europe's biggest investment exhibition,

:44:27.:44:32.

where our councils pitch stalls and marquees to try and get a slice

:44:33.:44:36.

We need investment, this is a great opportunity for Manchester

:44:37.:44:41.

We're coming out here to see what we can learn and how we can

:44:42.:44:48.

attract more and more investment into Lancashire.

:44:49.:44:50.

I'm bit shocked about it, you're next door to Malta, you know,

:44:51.:44:54.

This year, it's the biggest British delegation to this international

:44:55.:45:07.

And they knew that when they came to the sunshine of the south

:45:08.:45:12.

of France, they had to cast a light on the shadow that's been created

:45:13.:45:15.

So what does business make of Brexit?

:45:16.:45:20.

If you think it's bad, please raise your hands.

:45:21.:45:23.

We all recognise the uncertainties which Brexit

:45:24.:45:26.

represents, not just in terms of political uncertainty,

:45:27.:45:30.

but also economic management and fiscal uncertainty as well.

:45:31.:45:33.

One of the roles we've all got to play here

:45:34.:45:37.

is to demonstrate we're still open for business.

:45:38.:45:39.

It's unclear what the full outcome will be, but I think,

:45:40.:45:42.

as a place to invest, the UK, no matter how you look

:45:43.:45:45.

at it, all the different metrics you look at,

:45:46.:45:48.

it's is still a very strong, important investment market.

:45:49.:45:52.

North West councils know that they need to show the region

:45:53.:45:54.

But they also know the idea of them swanning about here

:45:55.:45:59.

in the south of France, sipping champagne, doesn't

:46:00.:46:01.

And so they try to show what they'll achieve

:46:02.:46:06.

Like Wirral's plan to regenerate Birkenhead.

:46:07.:46:11.

I just gauge by the level of interest I've had from developers

:46:12.:46:15.

and investors in the last year, I just think the time's right.

:46:16.:46:18.

There is a buzz about Wirral and Birkenhead.

:46:19.:46:24.

And in Manchester, where contentious plans for tower blocks,

:46:25.:46:26.

headed up by this man, will be rethought.

:46:27.:46:28.

There is no doubt that some of the suggestions that have been

:46:29.:46:33.

made to us during the consultation process, during the planning

:46:34.:46:35.

We need to refine certain aspects of it, we need to change

:46:36.:46:39.

We still fundamentally believe in scale.

:46:40.:46:47.

It's that kind of progress that people who can afford these

:46:48.:46:50.

yachts want to hear, as they think about where

:46:51.:46:53.

to invest their cash, as Britain gets ready to sail away

:46:54.:46:55.

I was chatting to Phil today as he applied his actor son. He said, far

:46:56.:47:12.

from being all doom and gloom over there, in the light of Brexit, the

:47:13.:47:17.

result is from trading bodies. You noted your concern about Brexit by

:47:18.:47:25.

denying the whip over Article 50. Do you think things are as bad as they

:47:26.:47:28.

seem? I actually voted for Article 50 and

:47:29.:47:33.

supported the bill. My abstention was in terms of a meaningful vote at

:47:34.:47:37.

the end of the process, but absolutely supported the bill. I

:47:38.:47:40.

supported the Prime Minister in going out there and selling Britain.

:47:41.:47:44.

I think there are opportunities, I went to see her take those

:47:45.:47:49.

opportunities, both in forging a new relationship with Europe, but also

:47:50.:47:52.

forging a new relationship outside of Europe. She's way that out very

:47:53.:47:58.

clearly in her Lancaster house speech. I'm delighted to hear of the

:47:59.:48:03.

optimism out there. Jim, do you think it will be

:48:04.:48:07.

optimistic moving forward for businesses from Europe?

:48:08.:48:10.

I think in North West point of view, the crowd here what happened from

:48:11.:48:14.

London. What happened because Theresa May stands up and makes a

:48:15.:48:17.

speech. It will happen because relationships are developed at a

:48:18.:48:22.

local level. We see the growth in Merseyside and Greater Manchester,

:48:23.:48:26.

the work being done in Lancashire as well, that's because of local

:48:27.:48:31.

weighbridge, that's local leadership, relationships are being

:48:32.:48:36.

forged. I think that's fantastic, being ambassadors for investment is

:48:37.:48:40.

fantastic. That is because George Osborne and

:48:41.:48:43.

the whole northern power has concept was about driving down powers to

:48:44.:48:47.

local communities so they could go out there, so they can make the

:48:48.:48:53.

plans and sell their local area. I think George Osborne's promotion of

:48:54.:48:57.

the Northern Powerhouse has been absolutely key in the perception in

:48:58.:49:00.

the international investment community about the opportunities

:49:01.:49:04.

that are appear in the North West. Well, we soon will see if they have

:49:05.:49:07.

time for the Northern Powerhouse time for the Northern Powerhouse

:49:08.:49:10.

partnership, because Brexit has worked out well for Antoinette's

:49:11.:49:14.

constituency neighbour, George Osborne.

:49:15.:49:18.

He lost his job as Chancellor, but he's now been appointed editor

:49:19.:49:20.

Here he is in his Tatton seat, which he says he wants

:49:21.:49:25.

He also told us a few months back that he'd like to carry

:49:26.:49:29.

on as a North West MP if Tatton disappears due to boundary changes.

:49:30.:49:32.

Antoinette, quite an extraordinary announcement this week.

:49:33.:49:35.

The big question on everybody's lips, how can you possibly do two

:49:36.:49:38.

Well, I think he did two massive jobs well

:49:39.:49:41.

when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer,

:49:42.:49:43.

Hang on, that's a big job that serves the public,

:49:44.:49:47.

that the public accept as part of his role an MP.

:49:48.:49:50.

It's totally different to serving a Russian businessman?

:49:51.:49:52.

Clearly, he's been offered a job, I don't know what the contract is,

:49:53.:49:55.

I don't know what the terms are, but has clearly demonstrated

:49:56.:49:58.

that he has the ability to show that leadership role and to work

:49:59.:50:03.

at an incredibly intense level, if I can put it that way.

:50:04.:50:08.

You both told me, when you arrived today, about the pressures

:50:09.:50:12.

on you at constituency level, having a surgery on Fridays.

:50:13.:50:15.

You must concede that to do your job properly,

:50:16.:50:18.

to serve your constituents well, and to be in Parliament

:50:19.:50:21.

and listen to every debate that goes on thoroughly,

:50:22.:50:23.

you can't spend every morning in a newsroom?

:50:24.:50:26.

I have to say, if you look at the BBC Parliament channel,

:50:27.:50:30.

you'll see that quite often we aren't able to listen to every

:50:31.:50:32.

debate, because there are other calls on our time.

:50:33.:50:37.

I sit on the BEIS Select Committee, and a considerable of my time

:50:38.:50:41.

is devoted to those inquiries and that evidence.

:50:42.:50:45.

Once again, though, serving the public rather than a newspaper?

:50:46.:50:48.

I think George Osborne has served the public

:50:49.:50:50.

for an exceptionally long time, I think he has a good track record,

:50:51.:50:53.

and at the end of the day, it will be up to his constituents

:50:54.:50:57.

That's true, and actually, Jim, that's the argument from the local

:50:58.:51:02.

They've said, yes, he was a brilliant Chancellor

:51:03.:51:06.

and he was a brilliant local MP at the same time,

:51:07.:51:09.

But we all play a part to a lesser or greater extent in the workings

:51:10.:51:14.

of Parliament, that's how we govern our country, that's how

:51:15.:51:17.

And if you're an MP, you have your constituency work

:51:18.:51:23.

and be a dilligent constituency MP, supporting people, making

:51:24.:51:26.

sure you're helping your local area to do well.

:51:27.:51:30.

You've also got to make sure you're playing your role

:51:31.:51:33.

as a parliamentarian, and then behind that

:51:34.:51:35.

George Osborne did that as Chancellor, but he's

:51:36.:51:39.

massively distracted now, one by his international

:51:40.:51:43.

responsibilities, giving professional advice.

:51:44.:51:46.

I've no grievance with people getting on and doing well,

:51:47.:51:49.

but there's got to be a limit to what you can do before it truly

:51:50.:51:53.

impacts on your ability to be an MP, which is a full-time

:51:54.:51:55.

But that's a matter for his constituents to judge?

:51:56.:51:58.

His constituents haven't had the ability to judge it...

:51:59.:52:01.

He decided mid-term, in a process, by the way,

:52:02.:52:05.

where his seat is likely to be deleted in the boundary review

:52:06.:52:09.

Clearly, on a human level, you can understand why he might think,

:52:10.:52:13.

if my constituency doesn't exist, then I won't be an MP

:52:14.:52:16.

beyond that point anyway, and I am going to start

:52:17.:52:18.

preparing for what future, my future outside of politics.

:52:19.:52:21.

We don't know, those boundary changes haven't been completed,

:52:22.:52:26.

It's not me hedging my bets, it's George Osborne hedging his bets.

:52:27.:52:34.

Too many local children are waiting too long

:52:35.:52:38.

for mental health treatment, the message from the

:52:39.:52:41.

Children's Commissioner for England this week.

:52:42.:52:43.

MPs meanwhile called for more action to tackle suicides.

:52:44.:52:47.

So are politicians becoming more keen to address

:52:48.:52:49.

I spoke to Alastair Campbell - Burnley fan and former head

:52:50.:52:54.

of communications for Tony Blair - who's had his own problems

:52:55.:52:57.

I think we've made a lot of progress in terms of how

:52:58.:53:04.

And think it's much, much higher up the agenda than it used to be.

:53:05.:53:09.

The fact that we're talking about it now, that I do more talks

:53:10.:53:12.

and interviews about this than anything else at the moment.

:53:13.:53:16.

My big worry, with the National Health Service under

:53:17.:53:22.

as much pressure as it is, that actually psychiatric and

:53:23.:53:25.

mental health services are going down to the bottom

:53:26.:53:27.

In 2012, the Government pledged parity of esteem between mental

:53:28.:53:31.

It should now be a legal obligation for CCGs to deliver that.

:53:32.:53:37.

As we know, in the North West, that is not always the case.

:53:38.:53:40.

Saying parity, saying we should look at mental health in the same way

:53:41.:53:48.

as we look at physical health, that's easy.

:53:49.:53:50.

Theresa May said something in her mental health

:53:51.:53:53.

She said it almost as if she was expecting

:53:54.:53:58.

a round of applause for it - she said that by 2021,

:53:59.:54:01.

from their own region to another region to find a psychiatric bed.

:54:02.:54:08.

That's twice as long as the time she says she's

:54:09.:54:17.

the most complicated thing any Prime Minister's had

:54:18.:54:21.

When local authorities, when local commissioning bodies

:54:22.:54:24.

have their own say over the budget, and they choose what to invest in,

:54:25.:54:27.

how do we stop it being a patchwork of services across,

:54:28.:54:30.

not just the North West, but across the country?

:54:31.:54:32.

It's very difficult, because ultimately, the pressures

:54:33.:54:35.

But what's happening at the moment - you talk about patchwork -

:54:36.:54:40.

what's hanging around the country, commissioning groups that are under

:54:41.:54:45.

massive financial pressures, historically what has happened

:54:46.:54:48.

is that the psychiatric and mental health services have been first

:54:49.:54:52.

in the queue for cuts, and that's happening again.

:54:53.:54:56.

Ultimately, we have to win the argument, that if we invest

:54:57.:54:59.

properly in mental health services now,

:55:00.:55:01.

and we catch people young, that we're going to be saving money

:55:02.:55:03.

We'll save money and addiction services, in prisons,

:55:04.:55:07.

in court services, we'll save money from the divorce courts.

:55:08.:55:10.

We've just got to have this sense of needing to think big about this,

:55:11.:55:15.

and we've got to understand that if we invest in our mental

:55:16.:55:18.

health now, we'll be making savings for the future.

:55:19.:55:25.

Let's start with that point that Alastair Campbell finished on, we

:55:26.:55:31.

know our prisons are getting fuller, we know A raises are on their

:55:32.:55:35.

knees. If we address mental health in the right way,, its basic

:55:36.:55:42.

economics at the Government in severe ignoring?

:55:43.:55:45.

They're not ignoring it. An additional ?1 billion has been put

:55:46.:55:49.

into specifically children's mental health. There is a shortage of Child

:55:50.:55:55.

psychologists, which is a problem. But they are targeting money,

:55:56.:55:58.

particularly at that early age group. And a further 1.25 billion is

:55:59.:56:03.

going into adult mental health services by 2021, as Alastair

:56:04.:56:09.

Campbell pointed out. Much like social care, people who

:56:10.:56:12.

suffer from mental health conditions are not getting the right treatment

:56:13.:56:15.

will say that is the drop in the oven. We know that here, when it

:56:16.:56:20.

comes to referral for depression and entirety, St Helens, you're seen

:56:21.:56:25.

within five days, in Manchester it's 50 days. Ultimately, that is the

:56:26.:56:28.

responsible sales local Government level that's?

:56:29.:56:31.

It is the response ability of the Clinical Commissioning Groups to

:56:32.:56:33.

level the services, new standards have been set to make sure that

:56:34.:56:38.

patients will be seen within the set period of time.

:56:39.:56:42.

Is that fair, that CCGs the typical bond there is an equipment can say,

:56:43.:56:45.

we're giving the money, you deal with it?

:56:46.:56:51.

To be honest, this transcends different governments. For too long,

:56:52.:56:57.

we haven't given mental health the attention it ought to have had. As a

:56:58.:57:01.

society, we're very uncomfortable dealing with people with mental

:57:02.:57:04.

health problems. A lot of people fall through the net because of

:57:05.:57:09.

that. There's no doubt that the fragmentation of mental health

:57:10.:57:12.

service, the money that has been taken away, is as where having an

:57:13.:57:18.

impact. As Alston said, I want to put on record Alastair's courage for

:57:19.:57:23.

telling his own story about this. More people need to do that. We need

:57:24.:57:27.

to create an environment where people have that conversation in

:57:28.:57:29.

public. I do agree with that. Members of

:57:30.:57:34.

Parliament are increasingly coming forward and speak with their own

:57:35.:57:38.

experiences. George Walker has spoken very movingly in the Cadillac

:57:39.:57:44.

house about his own experiences. There is that financial commitment

:57:45.:57:50.

that is clearly needed? You say yourself that is a problem in

:57:51.:57:53.

recruiting child psychiatrists, so there are gaps?

:57:54.:57:58.

There are gaps, and those need to be addressed. But at least the

:57:59.:58:02.

discussion is taking place about the parity of mental health services.

:58:03.:58:07.

It should be a legal responsibility, parity of esteem was pledged five

:58:08.:58:11.

years ago. The problem is, if you were to track

:58:12.:58:14.

back to the different stages, and recognise if there is an issue, once

:58:15.:58:19.

the assessment is carried out, in some places it can take 50 days.

:58:20.:58:23.

You're a young person, that is a big chunk of your school life that has

:58:24.:58:27.

been taken away, notwithstanding everything that has taken this

:58:28.:58:31.

before that. But get the support and investment in that person that is

:58:32.:58:35.

needed, for a lot of people at assist rubble. We can see that in

:58:36.:58:43.

circumstances where meat has been identified, they just get the help

:58:44.:58:46.

they need. It is important to come to your MP,

:58:47.:58:51.

because we can often help to make sure that support is in place.

:58:52.:58:55.

Here's Katie Waldeman now with a look at the rest

:58:56.:59:02.

Care home in crisis - Healthwatch Liverpool says

:59:03.:59:04.

the city's lost 220 beds in the past year and may soon struggle to

:59:05.:59:07.

There was misery for Merseyrail passengers

:59:08.:59:12.

Members of the RMT Union went on strike over plans

:59:13.:59:15.

I honestly don't know why they're doing it.

:59:16.:59:21.

I don't agree with right now, because I'm missing my

:59:22.:59:23.

trains, but there's probably got to be a good reason behind it.

:59:24.:59:26.

Pay up for policing - Lancashire's Crime Commissioner

:59:27.:59:28.

calls for the Government to stump up for the cost of controlling

:59:29.:59:31.

This is not a mess of our making, this is

:59:32.:59:35.

something that has been decided at Westminster once again.

:59:36.:59:39.

A row rumbled on over deal-making on Pendle council -

:59:40.:59:41.

Labour and the Lib Dems denied any agreement with the country's last

:59:42.:59:44.

And the Government's investigating claims that the itinerary for this

:59:45.:59:51.

trip to Cheshire were left on a train.

:59:52.:59:56.

They included details of the Prime Minister's hotel.

:59:57.:00:01.

Well, we started in Cannes, let's finish in Gorton in Manchester.

:00:02.:00:03.

Because the former Labour Party and Respect Party MP George Galloway

:00:04.:00:07.

has been there ahead of a possible by-election bid following the death

:00:08.:00:13.

And this bus has also been touring there with him.

:00:14.:00:24.

The killings of Tony Blair, it says. We know the damage George Galloway

:00:25.:00:32.

can do to Labour Party when a one state, is this a concern for you?

:00:33.:00:36.

It would be a by-election of a circus to come to town, and achieve

:00:37.:00:40.

cloud on this by-election seems to be George Galloway. I have no time

:00:41.:00:45.

or respect for George Galloway. I think you's opportunist, I think he

:00:46.:00:49.

preys on division. I think the voters of Gordon will see through

:00:50.:00:53.

that, and they will support the candidate. I think people respect

:00:54.:01:00.

the work that George Coffman did as an MP, they had a good

:01:01.:01:04.

parliamentarian resenting them, they want to know they have the same

:01:05.:01:08.

standard began. Even if he does have the same impact

:01:09.:01:12.

again, there is a huge majority for the Labour Party in Gordon. While

:01:13.:01:17.

the Conservative Party fight this election?

:01:18.:01:23.

It has been said it is a marginal seat, even with a 25 as a majority!

:01:24.:01:28.

I'm not sure I agree with that, but bull fight.

:01:29.:01:35.

The Labour band in Manchester is so strong, people, and support the

:01:36.:01:38.

Labour brand. But bid on what it stands for, there

:01:39.:01:42.

is no programme from Jeremy Corbyn, and I think it's possible that a

:01:43.:01:45.

good Conservative candidate collapses will find and execute the

:01:46.:01:49.

labour will be. Thank you to Antoinette and general.

:01:50.:01:53.

you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back to you.

:01:54.:02:02.

So, can George Osborne stay on as a member of Parliament

:02:03.:02:04.

Will Conservative backbenchers force a Government re-think

:02:05.:02:09.

And is Theresa May about to cap gas and electricity prices?

:02:10.:02:13.

Whose idea was that first of all? They are all questions for the Week

:02:14.:02:22.

Ahead to. Let's start with the story that is

:02:23.:02:32.

too much fun to miss, on Friday it was announced the former Chancellor

:02:33.:02:36.

would be the new editor of London's Evening Standard newspaper, a

:02:37.:02:41.

position he will take up in mid-May on a salary of ?200,000 for four

:02:42.:02:44.

days a week. But Mr Osborne has said he will not

:02:45.:02:48.

be stepping down as MP for Tatton in Cheshire,

:02:49.:02:51.

a job he's held since 2001, Alongside these duties,

:02:52.:02:53.

he's also chairman of While being committed to one day

:02:54.:02:57.

a week at Black Rock, an American asset management firm -

:02:58.:03:03.

a part-time role that earns him Then he's polishing his academic

:03:04.:03:05.

credentials, as a fellow at the McCain Institute,

:03:06.:03:11.

an American thinktank, And finally as a member

:03:12.:03:13.

of the Washington Speaker's Bureau, he also earns his keep

:03:14.:03:20.

as an after-dinner speaker, banking around ?750,000

:03:21.:03:26.

since last summer. So there you go. Nice little earners

:03:27.:03:39.

if you can get them. The problem, though, is he has put second jobs on

:03:40.:03:42.

the agenda and lots of his fellow MPs are not happy because they have

:03:43.:03:45.

got second jobs but not making that kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs

:03:46.:03:52.

on both sides actually are unhappy about it exactly for those reasons.

:03:53.:03:56.

I find it a very interesting appointment. We have got these

:03:57.:04:00.

people on the centre and centre right of politics who have been used

:04:01.:04:05.

to power since 1997, they have been on the airwaves today, Tony Blair,

:04:06.:04:09.

Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they are all seeking other platforms now

:04:10.:04:13.

because power has moved elsewhere. So Tony Blair is setting up this new

:04:14.:04:18.

foundation, Nick Clegg refused to condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair

:04:19.:04:22.

praised the appointment. They are all searching for new platforms.

:04:23.:04:28.

They might have overestimated the degree to which this will be a huge

:04:29.:04:31.

influential platform. The standard was very pro-Tory at the 2015

:04:32.:04:37.

election but London voted Labour, it was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they

:04:38.:04:42.

elected Sadiq Khan. It might be overestimating the degree to which

:04:43.:04:46.

this is a hugely influential paper. But I can see why it attracts him as

:04:47.:04:50.

a platform when all these platforms have disappeared, eg power and

:04:51.:04:57.

government. All of these people who used to be in power are quietly

:04:58.:05:02.

getting together again, Mr Blair on television this morning, George

:05:03.:05:06.

Osborne not only filling his bank account but now in charge of

:05:07.:05:11.

London's most important newspaper, Nick Clegg out today not saying

:05:12.:05:15.

Brexit was a done deal, waiting to see what happens, even John Major

:05:16.:05:21.

was wheeled out again today in the Mail on Sunday. They are all playing

:05:22.:05:25.

for position. I half expect David Cameron to turn up as features

:05:26.:05:29.

editor on The Evening Standard. Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg,

:05:30.:05:36.

did he not? I do not think this is sustainable for George Osborne, I

:05:37.:05:40.

worked at The Evening Standard and I was there for three years, I know

:05:41.:05:43.

what the hours are like for a humble journalist, never mind the editor.

:05:44.:05:47.

If he thinks he can get at 4am everyday to be in the offices at 5am

:05:48.:05:52.

to oversee the splash, manage everything in the way and edited

:05:53.:05:56.

should he is in cloud cuckoo land. What this says to people is there is

:05:57.:06:01.

a kind of feel of soft corruption about public life here, where you

:06:02.:06:05.

see what you can get away with. He thinks he can brazen this out and

:06:06.:06:08.

maybe he can but what kind of message does that send to people

:06:09.:06:11.

about how seriously people take the role of being an MP? He must have

:06:12.:06:17.

known. He applied for the job. The Russian owner didn't approach him,

:06:18.:06:22.

he approached Lebedev, the proprietor, for it. He must have

:06:23.:06:27.

calculated there would be some kickback. I wonder if he realised

:06:28.:06:31.

there would be quite the kickback there has been. I think that's

:06:32.:06:35.

probably right. This hasn't finished yet, by the way, this will go on and

:06:36.:06:39.

on. How on earth does George Osborne cover the budget in the autumn? Big

:06:40.:06:44.

budget, lots of physical changes and tax rises to deal with the messages

:06:45.:06:49.

out of this week. You can see already, Theresa May budget crashes.

:06:50.:06:54.

It could be worse. She's useless! Or, worse than that, me, brilliant

:06:55.:07:00.

budget, terrible newspaper, I've never buying it again. He has

:07:01.:07:06.

hoisted his own petard. He has not bought it properly through. It's a

:07:07.:07:09.

something interesting about his own future calculations, if he wants to

:07:10.:07:16.

stay on as an MP in 2020 and be Prime Minister as he has or was

:07:17.:07:19.

wanted to be he has got to find a new seat. How do you go into an

:07:20.:07:22.

association and say I should be an MP, I can do it for at least four

:07:23.:07:28.

hours Purdy after editing The Evening Standard, making a big

:07:29.:07:31.

speech and telling Black Rock how to make a big profit. The feature pages

:07:32.:07:38.

have to be approved for the next day and feature pages are aware the

:07:39.:07:42.

editor gets to make their mark. The news is the news. The feature is

:07:43.:07:48.

what concerns you, what he is in your bonnet. That defines the

:07:49.:07:51.

newspaper, doesn't it? It is not over yet. Too much 101 on

:07:52.:08:01.

newspapers. And Haatheq at. School funding, the consultation

:08:02.:08:03.

period ends, it has been a tricky one for the government, some areas

:08:04.:08:12.

losing. I guess we are seeing this through the prism of the National

:08:13.:08:15.

Insurance contributions now, it is a small majority, if Tory MPs are

:08:16.:08:22.

unhappy she may not get her way. Talking to backbench MPs who are

:08:23.:08:27.

unhappy the feeling is it is not going to go ahead in the proposed

:08:28.:08:32.

form that the consultation has been on. No 10 will definitely have to

:08:33.:08:36.

move on this. It is unclear whether they will scrap it completely, or

:08:37.:08:40.

will they bring in something possibly like a base level, floor

:08:41.:08:45.

level pupil funding below which you can't go? You would then still need

:08:46.:08:50.

to find some extra money. So there are no easy solutions on this but

:08:51.:08:54.

what is clear it is not going to go ahead in its current form. Parents

:08:55.:08:57.

have been getting letters across the country in England about what this

:08:58.:09:01.

will mean for teachers and so on in certain schools. It's not just a

:09:02.:09:05.

matter of the education Department, the schools, or the teachers and

:09:06.:09:10.

Tory backbenchers. Parents are being mobilised on this. The point of the

:09:11.:09:15.

new funding formula is to allocate more money to the more

:09:16.:09:19.

disadvantaged. That means schools in the more prosperous suburbs are

:09:20.:09:23.

going to lose money. Budget cuts on schools which are already

:09:24.:09:27.

struggling. It comes down again to be huge problem, the ever smaller

:09:28.:09:31.

fiscal pool, ever greater demands, NHS, social care, education as well,

:09:32.:09:37.

adding to Theresa May and Phillip Hammond's enormous problems. Here is

:09:38.:09:41.

an interesting issue, Steve. There was a labour Leader of the

:09:42.:09:46.

Opposition that once suggested perhaps given these huge energy

:09:47.:09:49.

companies which seemed to be good at passing on energy rises but not so

:09:50.:09:53.

good at cutting energy prices when it falls, that perhaps we should put

:09:54.:09:57.

a cap on them until at least we study how the market goes. This was

:09:58.:10:02.

obviously ludicrous Marxism and quite rightly knocked down by the

:10:03.:10:07.

Conservatives, except that Mrs May is now talking about putting a cap

:10:08.:10:11.

on energy prices. Yes, I think if it wasn't for Brexit we would focus

:10:12.:10:14.

much more on Theresa May's Ed Miliband streak. Whether this

:10:15.:10:19.

translates into policies, let us see. That bit we don't know. That

:10:20.:10:24.

bit we don't know but in terms of argument her speech to the

:10:25.:10:27.

Conservative conference on Friday was about the third or fourth time

:10:28.:10:32.

where she said as part of the speech, let's focus on the good that

:10:33.:10:37.

government can do, including in intervening in markets, exactly in

:10:38.:10:42.

the way that he used to argue. As you say, we await the policy

:10:43.:10:45.

consequences of that. She seems more cautious in terms of policy in

:10:46.:10:49.

fermentation. But in terms of the industrial strategy, in terms of

:10:50.:10:54.

implying intervention in certain markets, there is a kind of

:10:55.:10:58.

Milibandesque streak. And there comes a time when she has to walk

:10:59.:11:02.

the walk as well as talk the talk. They talk a lot about the just about

:11:03.:11:08.

managing, just about managing face rising food bills because of the

:11:09.:11:12.

lower pound and face rising fuel bills because of the rise in oil and

:11:13.:11:18.

in other commodities. One of the two things you could do to help the just

:11:19.:11:23.

about managing is to cut their food bills and the second would be to cut

:11:24.:11:26.

their fuel bills. At some stage she has to do something for them. We

:11:27.:11:30.

don't know what is going to happen to food bills under Brexit, that

:11:31.:11:34.

could become a really serious issue. They could abolish tariffs. There

:11:35.:11:37.

has been a lot of talking the talk and big announcements put out and

:11:38.:11:41.

not following through so I agree with you on that but lots of Tory

:11:42.:11:43.

MPs will have a big problem on this and the principle of

:11:44.:11:58.

continually talking about interfering in markets, whether it's

:11:59.:12:00.

on executive pay, whether it is on energy, at a time when Britain needs

:12:01.:12:03.

to send out this message to the world in their view, in the view of

:12:04.:12:06.

Brexit supporting MPs, that we are open for business and the government

:12:07.:12:09.

is not about poking around and doing this kind of thing. Of course, you

:12:10.:12:11.

could argue there is not a problem in the market for energy, it is a

:12:12.:12:14.

malfunctioning market that doesn't operate like a free market should,

:12:15.:12:17.

so that provides even Adam Smith, the inventor of market economics

:12:18.:12:21.

would have said on that basis you should intervene. I was in Cardiff

:12:22.:12:24.

to listen to Theresa May's latest explanation for doing this. By the

:12:25.:12:27.

way, we've been waiting nine months, this was one of her big ideas. You

:12:28.:12:33.

are right, let's see a bit of the meat, please. My newspaper has been

:12:34.:12:37.

calling for some pretty hefty government action on this for quite

:12:38.:12:40.

some time. For the just about managings? Yes and specifically to

:12:41.:12:46.

sort out an energy market dominated by the big six, which is manifestly

:12:47.:12:49.

ripping people off left, right and centre. Theresa May's argument in

:12:50.:12:53.

Cardiff on Friday morning which, by the way, went down like a proverbial

:12:54.:12:59.

windbreak at the proverbial funeral because Tories... You know what I

:13:00.:13:02.

mean Andrew, the big hand coming into from the state telling

:13:03.:13:06.

businesses what to do. They went very quiet indeed. They were having

:13:07.:13:10.

saving the union and Nato but there was no clapping for that. The point

:13:11.:13:14.

being, this is what she needs to do to prove her assault, to prove those

:13:15.:13:18.

first words on the steps of Downing Street. We await to see the actions

:13:19.:13:22.

taken. On that unusual agreement we will

:13:23.:13:29.

leave it there. The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at

:13:30.:13:31.

noon and everyday during the week. And I'll be here on BBC One

:13:32.:13:34.

next Sunday at 11am. Remember, if it's Sunday,

:13:35.:13:37.

it's the Sunday Politics. I've not given myself that time

:13:38.:14:20.

to sit down

:14:21.:14:25.

Andrew Neil and Nina Warhurst with the latest political news, interviews and debate.

As the NHS in England warns of a severe financial crisis, Andrew talks to Chris Hopson, head of NHS Providers. He is also joined by former Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg MP and Labour Party campaign and elections chair Andrew Gwynne MP.

On the political panel are the Sun's Tom Newton Dunn and journalists Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.