22/01/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


22/01/2012

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Afternoon. Welcome to the Sunday politics. The top story is George

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Osborne wanting Britain to play its part to stabilise the world economy.

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The opposition will request billions of pounds of extra funds

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to bail out the eurozone. Does the Chancellor had a fight on his

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hands? Has Ed Miliband got his fingers burned? I will be asking

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the shadow Business Secretary in the Sunday interview. A judge has

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ruled that a radical Muslim cleric can stay in this country. Should we

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leave the European Court of Human Rights? We will debate that topic

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live. And on Sunday Politics Scotland:

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The head of the Council of Economic Advisors tells us he doesn't know

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what a post-independence economy would look like and using sterling

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wouldn't be ideal. But Crawford Beveridge is still finding reasons

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to be cheerful. And is the Advocate General above

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1655 seconds

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I am sitting on the government commission looking at this. People

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have raised a number of things. One of the things they are concerned

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about is if we withdrew from the European Convention, we would be

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withdrawing from the Council of Europe. It would be very difficult

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to withdraw from the European Council. What would be wrong with

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having a British Bill of Rights? am one of the people who argued

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that we should have a jury trial, habeas corpus, incorporated into

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our very own Bill of Rights. The problem with it is people like

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Martin want to use this as a Trojan horse because they do not like

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Europe. The Council of Europe is completely separate to the EU.

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Another example is the issue of prisoners voting rights. The House

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of Commons has ordered by enormous majorities that we do not wish to

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give the right of prisoners the vote. The European Court of Human

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Rights is substituting its judgment for the will of our elected

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representatives. What are the chances of Mr Cameron making any

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move on this? We will see what he comes out with. He wants to

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introduce a filtering mechanism. What does he want to do? He does

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:31:03.:31:10.

not have a good chance. Thank you Good afternoon. Welcome to Scotland.

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Coming up, the head of the Council of Economic Advisers tells us that

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fiscal policy of using Stirling in an independent Scotland is not

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ideal. He is not sure what the economic implications of

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independence would be. Is the nude role of the Advocate General

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becoming political? Who'll board in the referendum? Will Scottish

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soldiers based in England miss out? The government say you can have

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your cake and eat it, but at what cost? The Council of economic

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advisers met this week for the first time since the end of 2010.

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This independent body offers insight and advice to government. I

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caught up with the businessman Crawford Beveridge after the

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:32:06.:32:13.

meeting. It is hard to tell how it 2012 is shaping up. It looks like

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many of the economies will see ourselves slipped forward for a

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month and go forward for a month. It looks like it will take a longer

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time to recover. What sort of growth can you predict for

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Scotland? As usual, we were very low last year, it is hard to

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predict. Somewhere between no gross and one % growth for UK economies.

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What does that mean for Scotland? We need to be very careful about

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the kind of policies we set. I am very pleased the Government has

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continued to spend on capital, because the more we can do on

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capital investment, the more we can go against the trend of being

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downward in other business areas. The private sector has also been

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very good at creating jobs compared to the rest of the UK, which

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offsets some of the drop in the public sector. Do you think the

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referendum question is affecting business confidence? I am not

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getting that from the people like Dr. -- people I talk to. The

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concerns are more about the rest of Europe, the euro, those are causing

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uncertainty. I have had no one -- I have not had any body suggesting

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the referendum is one of the things that is high on their list. Could

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it affect the credit rating of the UK? I would be surprised. They are

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much more concerned with getting the economy back to normal.

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have said in the past that full fiscal autonomy would actually

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deliver less revenue because of the depressed tax base. Is that still

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your opinion? It is not clear to me that that would be the case. Some

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of it depends on the negotiations of the oil revenue. Also, Scotland

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has done rather well in the Foreign Investment a rear in the last few

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:34:50.:34:54.

months, with companies like Amazon moving in. Do you support

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independence? I do. Can we discuss in some detail what you think a

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post-independence Scottish economy would look like? I was speaking to

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someone the other night who was very concerned about figuring out

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whether you would be better off or worse off financially. My answer to

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that was, if you are asking me over the next 15 or 20 years how the

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economy will do, the answer is nobody knows. What we do know is we

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have strong growing sectors in Scotland, a very stable population,

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one that is growing for the first time in a long time, so there is a

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lot more resources, we are successful at capturing inward

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investment, we have good plans about exports, and so I am

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confident that when left to our own devices, people at understanding we

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:36:03.:36:03.

are standing on a Rome two feet. -- our own two feet. How important do

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you think the economy will be? think it will be more important

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than it should be. I would like to think people would like to make a

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decision based on whether they want to determine their own future. If

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we want to do those things, then we should be voting in that direction.

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The economy is that important. People worry about whether they

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will be OK and have a job. I understand those fears will stop I

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do not think they should be that nothing on the mind. -- I

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understand those fears, but I do not think they should be the only

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thing. If we look at the Stirling, post-independence, is it could

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Europe to have the Bank of England dictating the interest rate for

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Scotland? If that was the decision that was made, and that would seem

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most logical, it is not ideal. You can look at other currency unions

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that have happened in the past, you can solve some of this via fiscal

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rules. Sit down and say we will abide by certain amount of debt.

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The last Council of Economic Advisers had suggested that this

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goal Commission would allow this to appear to rules that would mean we

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would not do anything that would drive down the wrong path. How many

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public sector jobs do you think will have to go if the Government

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:37:58.:38:00.

is to have an appropriate economic policy? It will depend on this

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balance between pay restraint and how long you can do that. It is

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hard to keep people on a pay restraint for a long time.

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council tax wheeze should continue for no more than a year or more?

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would hope it does not have to go on for long time, but it is

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sensible to keep it as an assurance to people. For another year?

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that is what it takes. If we look at some of the recommendations he

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made, which ones should be revisit? If you could just list them.

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all those areas, I think... Just to clarify, what areas do you mean?

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Three personal care, bus travel, prescriptions. -- free personal

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care. The feeling of the Independent budget review was if

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you were looking at those, it was not a case of scrapping them, it

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was where there are those who can afford to pay for them should be

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invited to do that. It was off focusing on providing it for people

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who need it, and not people like me. That would be our advice. If we

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have to keep cutting, rather than taking those things away from the

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vulnerable, take a look at how those who are more fortunate can

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pay some of their share. Where is the evidence that he persuaded John

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Swinney to do anything he was going to do anyway? I can only talk to

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the last council. It had 10 meetings between 2007 and 2010.

:40:06.:40:15.

Over that period we made many recommendations to the government.

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They accepted 45 of those recommendations, which later

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appeared in the economic strategy and some of the Budget. Assuming we

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have the same leeway with this council, I fully expect we will

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have the same influence going forward. Having accepted this

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position, can you have a profile on the independence referendum? Would

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you want one? Not particularly! I am happy to do whatever people want

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me to do, and I am always happy to sit down with friends and talk to

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them about why that makes sense, but it is not one of those things.

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I am not a politician. Can you vote in the referendum? I can. I have

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the distinct privilege of paying taxes in two countries, the United

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States and the United Kingdom. I am on the electoral register and I am

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here half of the time. I call by. Crawford Beveridge there. -- I

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qualify. Joining me is hums a use of and Ken Macintosh. -- Humza

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Yousaf. This system of setting up the school rules, that would be

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dependent on the Bank of England. Is that satisfactory? It is an

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interesting argument. Crawford Beveridge seemed to be making the

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case on one side for independence, and on the other talking about

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interdependence of the economy. He was quite clear you cannot be that

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Independent these days. It is a very strange argument. He is saying

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we will prosper but we will get their main lever of power to

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another nation. That is assuming that the English would want us to

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:42:34.:42:36.

use their currency. Why would they allow us to use it? We would have

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to ask their permission. We would not have to ask their permission.

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That is why George Osborne ended up backtracking. Crawford Beveridge

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actually makes the point very well. We have 40 currency unions across

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the world. Our currency is an interchangeable dynamic currency.

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People would still have a pound in their pocket. It is not about his

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face is on the Collins, on the power note. -- whose face is on the

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coin or pound note. You do not have the lever, the point is you will

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not have the currency and be discussion format. Even if you have

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a joint currency union, you still have the decision to make over

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corporation tax, welfare system, various other taxes. You still have

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that the choice over other aspects. That is what in the pen is is about,

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tried in, illegal war. This would be up for negotiation, that is the

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point. When it comes to independence, of course we will be

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negotiating. It is incorrect to say we would have to get permission.

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That is simply not true. I still do not understand. You say you would

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be independent because you want to control power, but you say you do

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not want this power. I just explained, being independent is the

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decision not having nuclear weapons, illegal war. Do you want economic

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independence, you're talking about having power over your tax system,

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welfare system, and when it comes to it, over 40 currency unions are

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extremely successful. The key thing here is devilish and gives you

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influence and control over your spending and some of your taxation.

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But there could be a question on the ballot about that. You do not

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need a question about that. You are remaining for the interview

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with Lord Wallace, but the Budget will be discussed in Holyrood on

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Wednesday. The you think it is sustainable to keep the council tax

:45:19.:45:29.
:45:29.:45:31.

freeze? I think the council tax freeze is unsustainable. We

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actually lost 13,000 government jobs this year alone. Clearly if we

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continue we will lose more jobs. It is not sustainable on those terms,

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and I would welcome a far greater openness about that discussion.

:45:55.:46:04.

Compulsory redundancies? That is not a genuine argument. 200 Scott

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every day lose jobs, and if you ask them whether they were laid off

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compulsory -- via compulsory methods, it is a sham. It is a

:46:14.:46:24.
:46:24.:46:30.

disguise. Let me come back on that, in the Labour manifesto, they were

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advocating a council tax freeze. To go back on that and say it is

:46:34.:46:39.

unsustainable is ridiculous. Ed Miliband has now said a pay freeze

:46:39.:46:44.

for public sector workers is absolutely the correct thing to do.

:46:44.:46:51.

Now Scottish Labour are saying it is not. We have given the SNP are

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support for two years because that was our election position, and they

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promised five years. When would you put it off? Iris was only for two

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years. -- Ours. It is no longer sustainable. The figures go up

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every year. I think you should allow councils the freedom to set

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their own tax, but the key to this is if you give them enough money,

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if he were to give them the subsidy to keep it down, they would. Labour

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introduce the council tax free in Glasgow before the SNP. Your policy

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would be to end the council tax free. Would you cut the rise?

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SNP have got a policy in place of freezing council tax without giving

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councils the money to pay for it. We would give them the money and

:47:51.:48:01.
:48:01.:48:08.

The former Lib Dem Deputy First Minister, and now Advocate General

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- Lord Wallace of Tankerness - threw himself into the political

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battle between the coalition and the SNP in Glasgow on Friday to

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reiterate Westminster's legal position on the referendum and his

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:48:26.:48:33.

role. This is a matter of law. If you are an officer, law is your job.

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Under the Scotland Act, I have some statutory functions.

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The Advocate General is in our Edinburgh studio for us now. In at

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stressing this role that you have, it is supposed to be legal rather

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than political. If you're interested in purely legal terms,

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if your objective is to secure the competency of the referendum, you

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should have offered that protection without any conditions. Let us

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celebrate the two things. -- separate. I gave a your lecture.

:49:15.:49:25.
:49:25.:49:25.

That is what I delivered. -- a law lecturer. I said that is why the

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Scottish Parliament doesn't have the competence to take forward the

:49:29.:49:39.
:49:39.:49:43.

Bill, and the document sets out why the Government should also be fair

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and decisive. The argument I was putting forward was very much a

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legal one, but I of asleep support government policy. -- but I

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obviously support. Would to be obliged to challenge it through

:50:06.:50:15.

judicial review? That is a hypothetical situation. Is it part

:50:15.:50:22.

of your statutory role to challenge this? What is your position? If you

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look at section 33 of the Scotland Act, he will find the Attorney

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General, the Lord advocate and myself can each individually take a

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bill... Are you are obliged to?... Cannot take it to the Supreme Court.

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Every bill is overlooked that. -- every bill is looked that. Who can

:50:57.:51:07.
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actually do this? There was a case last year which involved accident

:51:09.:51:19.
:51:19.:51:21.

and insurance. Him coming to their decision, the Supreme Court

:51:21.:51:28.

indicated that what qualified people to have interest, will be

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much wider. That is the point are had been trying to make: We want to

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avoid that situation. The Scottish and UK governments would agree that

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an issue as important as this, the last thing we want to have is

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having these issues boiled down to a legal wrangle in court. If there

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is a way forward, we should be exploring that. I think we are

:51:54.:52:02.

making progress. What specifically? The Scottish government is not

:52:02.:52:09.

adverse to using a section 30 order, Mr Swinney said that the priority

:52:09.:52:13.

of the Scottish government was to have a single question, there has

:52:13.:52:16.

been a suggestion in the press today that the Scottish government

:52:16.:52:22.

might not be so insistent on extending to 16 and 17-year-olds,

:52:22.:52:29.

and we heard on Friday evening that the role of the electoral

:52:29.:52:32.

commission is one the Scottish government would be willing to

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accept. I think there is a lot to discuss. And nothing has been

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firmed up for you at this point? As we go into these discussions, can I

:52:50.:52:56.

ask you, how comfortable is it for you personally, as a federalist,

:52:56.:53:01.

someone who has signed his Scottish Claim of Right, someone who has

:53:01.:53:07.

campaigned all his life for federalism, how comfortable is it

:53:07.:53:17.

for you personally to oppose this on a referendum paper? Confusing

:53:17.:53:21.

two separate issues on a referendum pay-per- would lead to confusion.

:53:21.:53:28.

Therefore I think it would be better that we can actually decide

:53:28.:53:32.

the question which the Scottish National Party will put forward in

:53:32.:53:40.

his manifesto. Once that question is decided, I hope we will remain

:53:40.:53:50.
:53:50.:53:50.

part of the UK. It will make it easier for us to go forward. I want

:53:50.:53:55.

to enhance the powers of the Scottish Parliament. It is easier

:53:55.:54:03.

to argue that case. Are you saying that to you signed the Scottish

:54:03.:54:08.

Claim of Right, but it is now your judgment that they are not smart

:54:08.:54:13.

enough to work out a referendum? That is not what I'm saying. I

:54:13.:54:19.

signed that Claim of Right. And that produced a blueprint for the

:54:19.:54:25.

Scottish Parliament. The Scottish people voted for that. That is the

:54:25.:54:34.

settlement we have a. Scottish people will have the opportunity to

:54:34.:54:38.

decide whether it they will wish to remain part of the United Kingdom

:54:38.:54:45.

or not. I hope that they do value feelings we have with the rest of

:54:45.:54:50.

the UK, and that we can move on to see how we can improve. Let us

:54:50.:54:55.

remember as well there is a Bill before Parliament this coming week

:54:55.:55:03.

which will enhance the powers of the Scottish Parliament as well.

:55:03.:55:06.

Simon Hughes has been saying there should be an English Parliament. Do

:55:06.:55:15.

you agree? I am agnostic as to whether it the English have one

:55:15.:55:21.

Parliament or not. I note that if we are looking at decentralisation,

:55:21.:55:26.

I have never been persuaded that an English Parliament would give you

:55:26.:55:33.

that degree of decentralisation. I will let my English colleagues

:55:33.:55:41.

worked a tub. You don't see a little bit of a paradox there?

:55:41.:55:51.

work that out a. We are talking about a settlement agreed by the

:55:51.:55:58.

Scottish people in 1997, where some things were resolved -- devolved to

:55:58.:56:04.

Westminster, and others at the to the Scottish Parliament. I am

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heartened by the progress there has been made. That is a sensible way

:56:09.:56:13.

forward, and we should not end up with these matters being dragged

:56:13.:56:20.

through the courts. The referendum goes through the civil process, but

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can I transfer now to the criminal process. I am talking about cases

:56:27.:56:37.

ending up in the Supreme Court. Lord Hamilton says "they should

:56:37.:56:47.
:56:47.:56:49.

have the same process as the High Court". You said that you remain to

:56:49.:56:55.

be persuaded that that. Why? I had a consultation of this last year,

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and in terms of the response as we got, the views were expressed that

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they should not be that certification. When Lord McCluskey

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consulted on that, there was a wide range of opinion which said that

:57:13.:57:21.

certification it should not be there. There our legal issues here,

:57:21.:57:28.

but I give evidence to the Scottish Parliament that the reason it was

:57:28.:57:34.

brought in, when a right of appeal to the House of Lords in 1961

:57:34.:57:39.

criminal matters was introduced, it was for purely administrative

:57:39.:57:46.

reasons. No one is suggesting that the Supreme Court, on a narrow

:57:46.:57:53.

issue of whether a -- own appeal should go that way, we will have

:57:53.:58:00.

this debate in the House of Lords. Lord McCluskey has tabled

:58:00.:58:06.

amendments. I will give proper consideration to the further

:58:06.:58:09.

representations letter from the Lord President, and I can

:58:09.:58:17.

anticipate that the debate will be well informed. The Government does

:58:18.:58:24.

not guarantee a majority either. It is a genuine that legal issue, and

:58:24.:58:30.

they are different views from legal opinion on this. We will have a

:58:30.:58:39.

very healthy debate. Let me just ask you - the Lord President is

:58:39.:58:44.

saying this is an appropriate way to go. He is also saying "we will

:58:44.:58:54.
:58:54.:58:55.

do as Lord McCluskey be recommended a". Are you concerned that the

:58:55.:58:57.

Scottish bench will block cases that should be referred to the

:58:57.:59:07.
:59:07.:59:08.

Supreme Court? -- as Lord McCluskey recommended. There is a genuine

:59:08.:59:14.

scope here for debate. That will take place in the House of Lords.

:59:15.:59:21.

But we are not comparing like with like. In England and Wales, it is

:59:21.:59:30.

the whole criminal justice system that is no doubt, in terms of

:59:30.:59:40.
:59:40.:59:40.

Scottish issues, is the apex. There would be an appeal to the House of

:59:40.:59:45.

Lords, so we are not comparing like with like.

:59:45.:59:52.

Still with me are the MSPs Humza Yousaf and Ken Macintosh. Let us

:59:52.:00:02.

pick up this idea of an English Parliament. What you think of that?

:00:02.:00:12.

I thought that the paradoxes were spot on. He said that those north

:00:12.:00:18.

of the border should not be commenting on an English Parliament.

:00:18.:00:24.

Yet, he is more than content to have Westminster colleagues

:00:24.:00:28.

interfering. I think English people should have their own Parliament

:00:29.:00:36.

and representation, they are a very proud nation. Do you think there is

:00:36.:00:40.

a stage in this process in which people south of the border should

:00:40.:00:50.
:00:50.:00:53.

be consulted? The UK government and Parliament will have to make a

:00:53.:01:00.

decision, because legally, the decision rests with them. They will

:01:00.:01:10.
:01:10.:01:13.

have to vote on it. As to the decision, it is a Scottish one.

:01:13.:01:19.

Lib Dems are saying there has to be a process in which there is some

:01:19.:01:26.

reflection of what is happening in England. At the time of devolution,

:01:26.:01:36.
:01:36.:01:37.

English people were consulted. rejected the Scottish model. They

:01:37.:01:47.
:01:47.:01:54.

The think the SNP should join in? Labour has been arguing that Alex

:01:54.:02:00.

Salmond has been reluctant to engage with the other parties bus-

:02:00.:02:03.

stop the has asked the Prime Minister to see in six or seven

:02:03.:02:13.
:02:13.:02:14.

times. The Scottish Labour will get involved in the consultation that

:02:14.:02:18.

will be launched on Wednesday. One top of that, I am sure when the

:02:18.:02:28.
:02:28.:02:28.

referendum is held there will be plenty of talks. What stage are we

:02:28.:02:35.

at here? I do not believe there are in for more formal talks. The

:02:35.:02:42.

opposition parties are in a position where would like to reach

:02:42.:02:49.

out. We would like to embrace civic Scotland, the trade unions, in

:02:49.:02:57.

discussions. We want to involve everybody. Why, if you will not

:02:57.:03:03.

allow at devolution Max question. This is about independence. They

:03:03.:03:11.

were not elected to deliver devolution Max. If you are going to

:03:11.:03:17.

listen to civic society, at the Church of Scotland committees, you

:03:18.:03:24.

have already made up your mind. The SNP says very clearly are

:03:24.:03:28.

questioned his independence. But we will listen to civic society. They

:03:28.:03:38.
:03:38.:03:40.

are asking to discuss the devilish and Max. -- devolution max. We have

:03:40.:03:43.

always supported abolition. We do not need to discuss it with anybody.

:03:44.:03:51.

The only thing we have to agree on is whether we should be independent.

:03:51.:04:00.

You are not sure whether you will get away with it.

:04:00.:04:05.

Do you not get any sense at all that the electorate are signing up

:04:05.:04:10.

for this? Can I just say, we are discussing this, the Scotland Bill

:04:10.:04:14.

has not gone through yet. It delivers a whole lot of new powers

:04:14.:04:21.

for Scotland. All I'm saying is it has not even been implemented yet.

:04:21.:04:25.

We do not even have a date for the referendum, and you are talking

:04:25.:04:29.

about post the referendum that we do not know the date of, what the

:04:29.:04:35.

questions might be. I am sorry, but the only people bringing up

:04:35.:04:40.

independence are the SNP, so why don't we resolve that? Then we

:04:40.:04:45.

could have a decent discussion about evolution. You would do very

:04:45.:04:51.

well to listen to Malcolm Chisholm, who says you need to get off the

:04:51.:04:57.

Scotland Bill as quickly as possible.

:04:57.:05:02.

Those comments were not met with a slammed door. Do you think there's

:05:02.:05:10.

a chink of light going into this question? It is so unimportant

:05:10.:05:17.

compared with the issue of independence. We just had terrible

:05:18.:05:25.

economic news this week, about unemployment. We cannot even get at

:05:25.:05:32.

clear statement from the SNP on their policy. Talking about that

:05:32.:05:38.

terrible news, Ed Miliband said the Tory cuts are appropriate. Did he

:05:38.:05:46.

top two Joanne landmark before he said that? -- did he talk to Johann

:05:46.:05:52.

Lamont? I think these are difficult times and back pain has to be

:05:52.:05:59.

shared. We are not unrealistic about this. So you think the cuts

:05:59.:06:05.

are appropriate and proportionate? That is not what we said. We want

:06:05.:06:12.

to address unemployment first and foremost. They are not delivering a

:06:12.:06:19.

budget that creates jobs. Thank you very much.

:06:20.:06:24.

Who will get a vote in the independence referendum? There is a

:06:24.:06:30.

debate about 16 and 17 year-olds. Both governments seem to agree that

:06:30.:06:36.

a system based on residency should be used. That would mean thousands

:06:36.:06:41.

of Scots outside Scotland would not get to vote and could also exclude

:06:41.:06:45.

some Scottish soldiers based in England.

:06:45.:06:49.

Gordon Henderson is Scottish, his wife is English and has lived in 10

:06:49.:06:55.

years. They will both get aboard in the independence referendum, but

:06:55.:06:58.

Gordon's Scottish brother and sister living in England might not.

:06:58.:07:02.

They would like to vote on the future of their country. I think it

:07:02.:07:08.

should be extended to Scott living outside Scotland. I think it should

:07:08.:07:18.
:07:18.:07:19.

be extended to all people in the There are separate systems for the

:07:19.:07:23.

Scottish and Westminster elections. The local government and parliament

:07:23.:07:31.

franchise is mainly based on franchise is mainly based on

:07:31.:07:36.

residency. The general election is largely the same, except EU

:07:36.:07:46.
:07:46.:07:48.

The local government and Scottish parliamentary franchise was used in

:07:48.:07:57.

the 1997 devilish in referendum. -- devolution. The government's

:07:57.:08:01.

largely agree about who should Ford in a Scottish referendum. They say

:08:01.:08:05.

it is the same as those who should boat in a Scottish Government

:08:05.:08:10.

election. That is determined primarily by presidents and bike

:08:10.:08:20.
:08:20.:08:24.

One man has launched a campaign to allow people to vote who are living

:08:24.:08:32.

outside Scotland. If I was living in New York, living in France, why

:08:32.:08:36.

can I vote for my Scottish MP yet am being denied the board for the

:08:36.:08:44.

biggest question of all on independence? -- the vote.

:08:44.:08:48.

campaign was raised in the Scottish Parliament by a Labour MP. But the

:08:48.:08:54.

SNP say it would be too complicated to extend it? If the system is

:08:54.:08:57.

based on residency, what would it mean for Scottish troops based in

:08:57.:09:07.
:09:07.:09:08.

England? Members of the public eye usually registered where their

:09:08.:09:13.

Barack start. This is probably the time to think how the referendum

:09:13.:09:19.

affects your long-term pretensions, will it increase or diminish your

:09:19.:09:25.

intention to retire to Scotland when you leave the armed forces?

:09:25.:09:28.

Will you consider registering in the constituency where you have a

:09:29.:09:36.

connection? The electoral commission says the service

:09:36.:09:44.

personnel have already collected two bought in England. -- elected

:09:44.:09:51.

to vote. The burning question for people in Hamilton College is

:09:51.:09:59.

whether people of the rate will get to vote. The SNP are in favour. --

:09:59.:10:03.

People of they age. The coalition government do not want to allow

:10:03.:10:09.

them the board. It could be a sticking point between Holyrood and

:10:09.:10:18.

Westminster. Opinion is divided. do not know what I tipped that

:10:18.:10:25.

we're not got a laugh about it. -- we do not know enough about it.

:10:25.:10:33.

think we should be allowed to have our say. Legislation paving the way

:10:33.:10:38.

for the referendum will ultimately decide who gets the vote. Those

:10:38.:10:45.

Scot living outside the country will need to wait a bit longer.

:10:45.:10:48.

The Westminster government is thinking of introducing a tax on

:10:48.:10:53.

obesity. Our reporter has been to Drumchapel to investigate whether

:10:53.:11:00.

putting a levy on junk food could actually changed our reading habits.

:11:00.:11:08.

-- change our eating habits. With 33 % of Scots now obese, public

:11:08.:11:12.

health experts are warning that unless it is tackled, obesity could

:11:12.:11:18.

cost Scotland �3 billion per year. If we do nothing, the evidence is

:11:18.:11:26.

very strong that obesity will increase substantially. To protect

:11:26.:11:31.

the public and their health service, Denmark has slapped our flat tax on

:11:31.:11:40.

food such as milk, cheese and beats up. -- a fat tax on pizza. Will it

:11:40.:11:50.
:11:50.:11:52.

work here? It will oblige manufacturers to change the recipes.

:11:52.:11:56.

Here in Drumchapel community centre, locals are taking part in a cookery

:11:56.:12:01.

programme designed to change their attitude to food. Despite a range

:12:01.:12:03.

of healthy-eating initiatives, Glasgow as some of the highest

:12:03.:12:10.

death rates from heart disease in the world. Do the women here think

:12:10.:12:17.

attacks would help? If a bag of crisps was to rise, it would not

:12:17.:12:27.
:12:27.:12:29.

discourage me. It is sometimes cheaper to buy an active pizzas. --

:12:29.:12:39.
:12:39.:12:41.

buy a pizza. It will not solve the problem. They need education.

:12:41.:12:45.

they are taxing the junk food, they should use the money to subsidise

:12:45.:12:49.

healthier food. The Scottish Government is working with the food

:12:49.:12:55.

industry business to cut obesity. One of the local GPs believes more

:12:55.:13:01.

needs to be done to tackle the bigger picture. It would be an

:13:01.:13:07.

assault on the poor. The UK Government is considering

:13:07.:13:16.

introducing this tax. Is our love affair meaning we cannot afford to

:13:16.:13:21.

not take action? With me is Amanda Hamilton and

:13:21.:13:31.
:13:31.:13:31.

Brenda Sowny. Thank you for coming in. Would an obesity tax work?

:13:31.:13:41.
:13:41.:13:43.

on its own. It would actually make people who live very poor, it could

:13:43.:13:49.

net the work if there was other things in place, but not overnight.

:13:49.:13:57.

-- maybe work. The Danish are saying there is no disadvantage but

:13:57.:14:03.

there are less of a margin between salary levels. Is it a problem that

:14:04.:14:11.

they are cheaper? Education, people do not understand how bad this book

:14:11.:14:21.
:14:21.:14:22.

can affect you. If they do not have money to do a big shock, -- big

:14:22.:14:31.

shop, they are going to buy what is on their doorstep. In theory this

:14:31.:14:39.

is fantastic, but in practice people cannot afford it. We also

:14:39.:14:47.

need to attack sugar to make a genuine impact. I also think those

:14:48.:14:57.
:14:58.:14:58.

working on the ground know that it cannot work in isolation. It needs

:14:58.:15:03.

to be ring-fenced. We need to do something bold, we are the fattest

:15:03.:15:07.

nation in Europe. Whatever we are doing is not enough. It is sending

:15:07.:15:14.

the message that food manufacturers need to step up to the mark. Nobody

:15:15.:15:20.

advertises bananas and apples. It is carbohydrate and refined,

:15:20.:15:30.
:15:30.:15:34.

Do you think that it is slightly patronising to say to certain

:15:34.:15:43.

sections of society "don't eat that". There have been a lot of

:15:43.:15:48.

campaigns. I think it is wrong to say "changed the way you are

:15:48.:15:58.
:15:58.:16:02.

living". If they can get access to fresh fruit and vegetables, then it

:16:02.:16:07.

is a wrong to presume that somebody living on a low income is obese,

:16:07.:16:12.

and they need to change their way of life. You are running a project

:16:12.:16:17.

in which three fruit and vegetables were being distributed. Do you have

:16:17.:16:23.

concerns that in this current economic climate, that is the sort

:16:23.:16:31.

of very practical, basic initiative that could be hit? We have had huge

:16:31.:16:35.

funding cuts in the last three years, it so we do not give out

:16:35.:16:43.

freak fruit and vegetables. So we give out low-cost crude and

:16:43.:16:53.
:16:53.:16:59.

vegetables. -- fruit and vegetables. One supermarket is costly, so

:16:59.:17:05.

people do use it. It also helps in different ways, such as a

:17:05.:17:14.

volunteering. There are a lot of different things it does. The

:17:14.:17:22.

Government have not withdrawn putting fresh fruit in. Part of

:17:22.:17:31.

this money could be used to fund this. You cannot say a backward we

:17:31.:17:41.
:17:41.:17:43.

are in centre rising health"and then raise the money elsewhere. --

:17:43.:17:53.

you cannot say we are in centre rising health. It is people that

:17:53.:17:56.

are giving up their time, like yourself, that one need to be

:17:56.:18:01.

supported more. It has got to be in schools, it has to become more

:18:01.:18:11.
:18:11.:18:16.

important in Scotland. It will only get worse. If you look and economic

:18:16.:18:26.
:18:26.:18:30.

problem, or why elect somebody already impoverished? It is only a

:18:31.:18:38.

downward spiral. When we look at the most basic responses, it in --

:18:38.:18:44.

is at his basic as cookery classes in schools? I worked on a panel

:18:44.:18:53.

recently talking about home economics. The Cross family impact,

:18:53.:19:02.

that we have seen, I was saying, why not have sex at up a bit? I

:19:02.:19:06.

think we should engage with children in a much more modern way.

:19:06.:19:11.

Why not incentive as health end a different way? I have got three

:19:11.:19:19.

children I am feeding at home, and you cannot say"come on children,

:19:19.:19:29.
:19:29.:19:32.

step up". It is about linking the different parts together. They do

:19:32.:19:37.

both very much. And now here's the lunchtime news

:19:37.:19:41.

with Andrew Kerr. Good afternoon. The Deputy Prime

:19:41.:19:44.

Minister has called on the Scottish Government to provide basic answers

:19:44.:19:47.

on their plans for an independent Scotland. Speaking on the BBC's

:19:47.:19:49.

Andrew Marr Show, Nick Clegg rejected calls for an English

:19:49.:19:52.

Parliament made by the Liberal Democrats' Deputy leader, Simon

:19:52.:19:57.

Hughes. The Scottish Government says details of the referendum will

:19:57.:20:00.

be released on Wednesday, but Mr Clegg says there are fundamental

:20:00.:20:07.

issues about independence itself. At a time when the central argument

:20:07.:20:12.

is about the wisdom of wrenching Scotland out of the UK, let us

:20:12.:20:16.

focus on that debate, and let us get the SNP to provide basic

:20:16.:20:26.
:20:26.:20:27.

answers. They would be able to provide answers, and that is what

:20:27.:20:30.

we should focus on. Police in Inverness searching for a

:20:30.:20:33.

missing teenage boy have found a body. Scott Campbell, who is 16,

:20:33.:20:37.

was last seen in the city in the early hours of yesterday morning.

:20:37.:20:40.

The body has not yet been formally identified, but Scott's family have

:20:40.:20:41.

been made aware of the circumstances.

:20:41.:20:44.

Scientists at the Beatson Institute in Glasgow say they have created

:20:44.:20:47.

the first 3D image of a protein which protects against cancer. If

:20:47.:20:50.

the protein stops functioning properly, cells divide too often,

:20:50.:20:54.

which can lead to the disease. The team hope their images will assist

:20:54.:20:58.

the development of new drugs. Now let's take a look at the

:20:58.:21:08.
:21:08.:21:14.

A colt, breezy afternoon. A lot of dry weather across the country,

:21:14.:21:18.

particularly across central, southern and eastern Scotland. Some

:21:18.:21:25.

showers pulling him across the northern isles. These are showers

:21:25.:21:33.

are fewer than it yesterday. Temperatures peaking at 7-8 Celsius.

:21:33.:21:38.

That is your forecast. That's all for now. Our next

:21:38.:21:44.

bulletin is at 18:50pm, but for now, Thanks, Andrew. Now, in a moment,

:21:44.:21:47.

we'll be discussing the big events coming up this week at Holyrood,

:21:47.:21:57.
:21:57.:21:59.

but first, let's take a look back at the week in sixty seconds.

:21:59.:22:05.

People in Scotland are out of work. The Finance Secretary calls for a

:22:05.:22:15.
:22:15.:22:16.

new cook wide job summit. -- for a UK-wide.

:22:16.:22:20.

The brakes will be included in these hours, and although the

:22:20.:22:29.

ambulance service remains committed to ensuring staff are rested, all

:22:29.:22:36.

teams will be available to attend emergency calls.

:22:36.:22:41.

The Lib Dems say Scotland's top civil servant is cheerleading for

:22:41.:22:46.

the SNP. Ministers say he has acted within the Civil Service code of

:22:46.:22:56.

conduct. The downfall of Labour's social media, Tom Harris, as he

:22:56.:23:00.

compared Alex Salmond to Hitler was an unhelpful describe the action.

:23:00.:23:04.

On Wednesday, as the First Minster takes to his feet to unveil the

:23:04.:23:06.

details of the SNP's consultation on the referendum, it's a fair

:23:06.:23:09.

guess the press gallery will be a bit fuller than normal.

:23:09.:23:13.

This week, we have invited a couple of ex MSPs on to give us their take

:23:13.:23:16.

on the week ahead. We're joined by the former Labour MSP, Des McNulty,

:23:16.:23:25.

and for the SNP, Shirley Anne Somerville. His life outside that

:23:25.:23:30.

building refreshing, enjoyable? is interesting to not be part of it,

:23:30.:23:38.

I have to save. It is a lot more friendly! If we look at what is

:23:38.:23:43.

coming up, we have got the discussion on the Budget coming up,

:23:43.:23:48.

and we have heard from Crawford Beveridge about the council tax. Do

:23:48.:23:56.

you think this phrase is sustainable,? I think we will have

:23:56.:24:00.

a situation where elections are coming up, the freeze has been

:24:00.:24:05.

geared towards those elections. Nobody wants to put tax up in

:24:05.:24:09.

advance of elections, but after that, councils will have very

:24:09.:24:13.

serious problems maintaining services, social care, education

:24:13.:24:21.

and so on. It will create a huge difficulties. Do you think people

:24:21.:24:31.
:24:31.:24:31.

will be willing to pay for about �1 a week for social services?

:24:31.:24:37.

problem is the people with the biggest houses are gaining the most.

:24:37.:24:41.

I don't know Airth Sir Fred could win still has his house in the

:24:42.:24:47.

Grange, but he would be a great beneficiary. But other people in my

:24:47.:24:55.

constituency would get nothing back. In that way, it is unfair. Should

:24:55.:25:03.

so Fred keep his knighthood? don't think so. I think he deserves

:25:03.:25:13.
:25:13.:25:14.

to have some pay back. Looking at it from the outside, do you think

:25:14.:25:21.

this is sustainable in the longer term? It was sustainable in the

:25:21.:25:26.

last Parliament when I was an MSP. It is a fully funded by the

:25:26.:25:31.

Scottish government to local councils. What has caused the

:25:31.:25:37.

problems is the Scottish Grand being cut by Westminster. We need

:25:37.:25:40.

to look at why social services are under pressure, and why people are

:25:41.:25:46.

losing their jobs and the public sector. That is not because of a

:25:46.:25:48.

council tax freeze, it is because the Scottish government does not

:25:48.:25:53.

have enough money any more, because that has been cut by Westminster.

:25:53.:25:59.

When you look at the no compulsory redundancies, all that happens, we

:25:59.:26:05.

are now told, it is a third this section of people go because they

:26:05.:26:09.

have chances to go elsewhere, and then what is left, there can be

:26:09.:26:15.

huge gaps in provisions if you are running that approach. Do you

:26:15.:26:20.

accept that these redundancies does not give us the best structure for

:26:20.:26:27.

providing public services? It is very important for the families

:26:27.:26:30.

throughout Scotland. You have to look at it why the Government is

:26:30.:26:34.

wanting to do this. We need to protect the families in the public

:26:34.:26:37.

sector to ensure at we are not saying people hit even harder by

:26:37.:26:42.

what is happening. People are going through difficult things with their

:26:42.:26:46.

families, and at this package does not go through, people would like

:26:46.:26:51.

to see that - they want to see the Government protecting people's jobs,

:26:51.:26:55.

they don't want to see the Government adding to unemployment.

:26:55.:27:00.

That is why it is such a critical issue for us. If we look at the

:27:00.:27:05.

referendum question, and the wider view on this, how are the different

:27:05.:27:09.

parties are playing this? I they appropriately representing the

:27:09.:27:19.
:27:19.:27:19.

views of the people? I think we are at just the start of the prose is.

:27:19.:27:27.

Might view is that Alex Salmond is a gambler. He wants to put forward

:27:27.:27:32.

the single question on independence, but he also wants a question in

:27:32.:27:38.

there third allows them to push a different issue forward. The fair

:27:38.:27:46.

thing to do is to have a simple referendum. Yes or no to

:27:46.:27:53.

independence. What Alex Salmond needs to do is explain to people

:27:53.:27:57.

what that means in terms of the constitutional status of Scotland,

:27:57.:28:02.

or what will happen in terms of currency, what happens to big

:28:02.:28:07.

companies like RBS and other companies in Scotland who, if they

:28:07.:28:17.
:28:17.:28:17.

were to remain Scottish, would need to be bailed out. These are big

:28:17.:28:22.

questions. Alex Salmond needs to explain the answers to those.

:28:22.:28:27.

Clegg is also saying that they know the questions, but not the answer

:28:27.:28:37.
:28:37.:28:38.

is. Is that there? No. I find it strange that it is fair to not ask

:28:38.:28:43.

the people a question. People want a government who listens to

:28:43.:28:49.

different opinions about there. The SNP have said their first option is

:28:49.:28:56.

independence. That is what I want as an individual. If there is a

:28:56.:29:00.

boys' of opinion about there that wants to see a different question,

:29:00.:29:06.

then surely you should see a government that listens to that. --

:29:06.:29:12.

voice of the opinion. I thought that was what democracy was about.

:29:12.:29:19.

It could be a union safety net as well? If you wanted to go down a

:29:19.:29:23.

route of debating how you extend devolution, there is a perfectly

:29:23.:29:31.

legitimate way to do that. You need to work your way through what that

:29:31.:29:37.

actually means. The problem is that Birt Alex Salmond is trying to tie

:29:37.:29:47.

it into his independence referendum. He has tried to have it both ways.

:29:47.:29:53.

Should there be an English Parliament? That is a question up

:29:53.:29:59.

to the English people themselves. I had we get an opportunity for the

:29:59.:30:09.
:30:09.:30:10.

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