17/06/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


17/06/2012

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Good afternoon. Welcome to Sunday Politics.

:00:46.:00:49.

It is decision day for Greece as the country goes to the polls for

:00:49.:00:53.

the second time this year. Results determine Greek membership of the

:00:53.:01:00.

bureau and could plunge Europe into economic chaos.

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During the first Gulf war, Britain sent 53,000 troops to the Middle

:01:04.:01:11.

East. Could we fuel anything like that kind of firepower again? I

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will speak to the Secretary of State for Defence Philip Hammond.

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And on Sunday Politics Scotland, the SNP Leader of Argyll & Bute

:01:22.:01:25.

Council, admits they made a mistake trying to ban Martha's School Meal

:01:25.:01:34.

blog. And same sex marriage. And I would

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apologise to mar that if it has cost her any... We will be trying

:01:39.:01:43.

to find a way forward. The Equality Network and the Catholic Church go

:01:43.:01:46.

head to head over how they want the Scottish government to legislate.

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And as the Euro house of cards wobbles, we ask the Scotland Office

:01:49.:01:59.
:01:59.:01:59.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1350 seconds

:01:59.:24:30.

how they plan to protect Scotland's We are not comparing ourselves with

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the Americans. Workforces, even after the changes announced, will

:24:38.:24:48.
:24:48.:24:49.

be, after the Americans, one of the biggest in the world. Let us look

:24:49.:24:59.
:24:59.:25:00.

at Syria. What resources could we contribute? The UK has a fast

:25:00.:25:08.

capability. And no aircraft carriers. We have an air base in

:25:08.:25:13.

Cyprus. It would give us the ability to mount operations in the

:25:13.:25:18.

eastern Mediterranean. A bar to lure strategy involves cutting

:25:18.:25:28.
:25:28.:25:40.

full-time troops and replacing The experts do not think you can

:25:40.:25:47.

compensate. Frankly, the experts are in the British are made and

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they do think that the Territorial Army can play a more significant

:25:51.:25:55.

role. Under the last government, training budgets for the

:25:55.:26:01.

Territorials were cut. The proxy covenant between the Territorial

:26:01.:26:05.

Army and the reservists. They did not get the training they were

:26:05.:26:12.

promised. What we have done is committed to ring-fenced budget,

:26:12.:26:16.

�1.8 billion over 10 years to provide the Ket and training that

:26:16.:26:22.

the Territorial Army need. They will be integrated more effectively

:26:22.:26:27.

into the regular Army. It has already been talked about that much

:26:27.:26:32.

closer linking of the Territorial Army units with regular units. They

:26:32.:26:36.

can then train together and work up their sticker -- skills together.

:26:36.:26:41.

We believe they would be of significant support. Particularly

:26:41.:26:47.

in a sustained operation. In future, if we do get involved in a

:26:47.:26:52.

sustained operation, as we get into the second and third year, he will

:26:52.:27:00.

start to see bigger proportions of a verb -- reservists. Many famous

:27:00.:27:05.

regiments are on the line in your cuts. Can you guarantee that

:27:05.:27:12.

historic regiments will be just as much of the brunt as English once -

:27:12.:27:22.
:27:22.:27:25.

- Scottish ones. It is focused on how to distribute the reductions in

:27:25.:27:31.

manpower across everything that is based on military Wrobel -- logic

:27:31.:27:36.

will the English or Scottish regiments bear the brunt? I can

:27:36.:27:41.

tell you that the way it is done will be demonstrably failed --

:27:41.:27:48.

demonstrably fair. So that people in the wider community see it as

:27:49.:27:54.

spare and, based on proper logical and -- analysis. Your defence

:27:54.:28:00.

spending, you are some that starts to rise again by 1% in real terms

:28:00.:28:04.

after 2015. The Chancellor has told us there will have to be more

:28:04.:28:11.

spending cuts in 2016 and 2017. Has the then Speaker exempted? The 1%

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increase in after 2015 is only on the equipment programme. Our budget

:28:15.:28:20.

has been built on the assumption which has agreed with the Treasury

:28:21.:28:25.

that there will be a 1% increase in the equipment purchase and support.

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Whatever cuts happen elsewhere, you will get that extra 1%? That is the

:28:30.:28:40.
:28:40.:28:49.

Back welcome to Sunday's politics Scotland.

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Coming up, we ask Scotland Office minister if they think the spending

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plans for Trident will play badly and Scotland.

:28:59.:29:03.

An epic scale for Argyll and Bute council as this quiet Highland

:29:03.:29:08.

village becomes the focus of intense worldwide interest. The

:29:08.:29:18.
:29:18.:29:20.

school dinner Sagar,... There is no PR jargon, people are blunt about

:29:20.:29:24.

what they think about products and services. There has been a lot of

:29:24.:29:27.

beer and that fear is older men back from engaging.

:29:27.:29:31.

As figures out this week show marriage is on the rise in Scotland,

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we ask the Equality Network and the collet -- Catholic Church what they

:29:35.:29:38.

think will come out of the government's same-sex marriage

:29:38.:29:44.

consultation. If you have spent the past week

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going to the revolving door of politicians appearing at Leveson or

:29:48.:29:51.

watching a flame pass by your street, you may have missed a few

:29:51.:29:56.

very significant financial announcements. Our business and

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economy Ender has the highlights. What money would Scott Hughes if we

:30:02.:30:06.

bought for independence? Would it be a Scottish Power and or perhaps

:30:06.:30:10.

the euro though not too popular right now. Would it be this from

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the Bank of England. This is the front-runner. The implications of

:30:15.:30:20.

an independent Scotland currency being run from Scotland are causing

:30:20.:30:25.

more trouble than any other issue. In reassuring people that

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investments and markets will be stable through the transition,

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Scotland's finance minister at John Swinney went further this week. He

:30:34.:30:37.

suggested regulation of Scotland's banks should be overseen from

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London. The Bank of England is as much an institution of Scotland as

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cities of any other part of the United Kingdom. It is essentially

:30:51.:30:54.

providing the type of financial activity that an independent

:30:54.:30:58.

Scotland would require. It happens to provide that within the United

:30:58.:31:05.

Kingdom. What Whitehall agree to that? If so, on what conditions? Is

:31:05.:31:15.
:31:15.:31:18.

it legal under European law? If other financial powers are a shade

:31:18.:31:23.

between Edinburgh and London, would it look much like independence? The

:31:23.:31:27.

awkward contact the -- context is a currency union across the North Sea

:31:27.:31:33.

is feeling. There is a lack of the but it -- political and fiscal

:31:33.:31:42.

union. That crisis is casting a big shadow over economy. The world

:31:42.:31:46.

economy is a much less welcoming environment in which to rebalance

:31:46.:31:52.

the UK economy than two years ago. Not only have the euro area

:31:52.:31:57.

problems escalated, to the point where exit for Greece and other

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countries is the subject of widespread speculation, but signs

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of a slowing in China, India and other previously buoyant in

:32:06.:32:12.

emerging economies such as Brazil are appearing daily. It is more

:32:12.:32:17.

than two years since market started punishing other countries for not

:32:17.:32:23.

paying off debts. This weekend in Greece sees a showdown between

:32:23.:32:28.

markets and porters. If austerity is rejected, it may spread

:32:28.:32:36.

contagion to other countries. In turn, that could severely weakened

:32:36.:32:42.

banks based in strong economies, Germany, the Netherlands, vital

:32:42.:32:52.
:32:52.:32:53.

trading partners for us. The Treasury and Bank of England, and

:32:53.:32:59.

this crisis that helps the supply of credit. The problem looks like

:32:59.:33:03.

an increasing lack of demand. Businesses look at the economic

:33:03.:33:08.

weather and they do not want to take a risk on investment.

:33:08.:33:16.

If Anna Westminster studio, we have the Conservative MP David Mundell.

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Lot of worries about the economy. The SNP are trying to reassure

:33:22.:33:26.

people about the economy and an independent Scotland. We have the

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Finance Secretary John Swinney saying that retaining the pound

:33:30.:33:34.

under independence is in the best interests of Scotland and for the

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UK. I think that John Swinney was trying to reassure people as to

:33:42.:33:45.

what the economic situation in Scotland would be after

:33:45.:33:50.

independence, he has seriously have failed. He has raised more

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questions than he has answered. The issue remains for the SNP who were

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here again today. They do not want to talk about independence to

:34:01.:34:08.

people in Scotland. What they mean by independence. If they want to

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keep the arrangements for the currency exactly as they are, what

:34:13.:34:19.

is the purpose of independence? Their proposal would give Scotland

:34:19.:34:26.

much less say over the power and. The Bank of England would not be

:34:26.:34:32.

required to take interest into account. As the Ducie that they

:34:32.:34:42.
:34:42.:34:45.

could have a Scottish member on the Monetary Policy Committee. --

:34:45.:34:51.

reduce C. They are certain things that the EC have already been

:34:51.:34:54.

discussed. There have been no discussions with the Bank of

:34:54.:34:59.

England about how an independent Scotland would seek to operate. All

:34:59.:35:04.

these things are simply assertions. It is like the issue with the EU,

:35:04.:35:09.

there have been no sub-standard discussions about Scotland would be

:35:09.:35:15.

part of the European Community. All these things have not been thought

:35:15.:35:19.

through and it is only now that the spotlight is coming on what

:35:19.:35:23.

independence actually means that the SNP are finally having to

:35:23.:35:27.

answer questions about these really significant issues for economy.

:35:27.:35:33.

us look at the bank lending scheme that was announced. The SNP claim

:35:33.:35:39.

this is papering over the cracks. There are substantial ways to boost

:35:39.:35:45.

jobs and the economy. I have heard so much about the shop already

:35:45.:35:51.

projects. The answer to them is that the SNP have had over �1

:35:51.:35:55.

billion in addition monies which they did not to participate from

:35:55.:35:59.

the consequence -- Comprehensive spending Review. They could take

:35:59.:36:02.

policy choices to spend money on the show already projects. They

:36:02.:36:08.

have not done so. This whole exercise is actually a smokescreen

:36:08.:36:13.

for not taking responsibility for for their own policy decisions.

:36:13.:36:18.

That is what having a parliament is about. It is about making decisions

:36:18.:36:22.

and taking responsibility for them. The SNP have chosen not to proceed

:36:22.:36:27.

with their own budget for these shop already projects. If Mr

:36:27.:36:36.

Salmond wants to take that issue, he should not the British

:36:36.:36:42.

government. They Greeks are going to the polls. What is a concern for

:36:42.:36:46.

Scotland if Greece believes the euro? What is David Cameron doing

:36:46.:36:53.

in Mexico? It is a matter for the Greek people as to who they bought

:36:53.:37:03.

for her and we will see that later on today. -- Gaisce Awards. It is

:37:03.:37:12.

beneficial that Greece remains within the euro. There is no doubt

:37:12.:37:19.

that it would impact on the halt the UK. It would impact on Scotland.

:37:19.:37:24.

We cannot isolate our economy as we have seen across the UK and in

:37:24.:37:29.

Scotland from what is happening in the Eurozone. We must hope that we

:37:29.:37:32.

can get a resolution in Greece which sees Greece stay in the

:37:33.:37:42.
:37:43.:37:46.

Eurozone but with, on a basis that allows that to be sustainable.

:37:47.:37:52.

us look at another issue. Philip Hammond was spelling out his plans

:37:52.:37:57.

for its nuclear reactors. This has been the reaction from the SNP.

:37:57.:38:01.

This is the tip of the expert is far as expenditure is concerned. It

:38:01.:38:07.

is estimated that the outturn across the weapons system could be

:38:07.:38:13.

up to �25 billion. What is quite clear from Scotland is that the

:38:13.:38:17.

people of Scotland are opposed to nuclear weapons systems on the

:38:17.:38:23.

Clyde. The Scottish Parliament is supposed. An issue but civic

:38:23.:38:29.

Scotland, the Scottish churches are paused and saw the trade unions. It

:38:29.:38:33.

is an obscenity that we are pressing ahead at this time with

:38:33.:38:37.

this particular system. Pressing ahead with this system, David

:38:37.:38:44.

Mundell, as he was pointing out, the Scottish population as opposed

:38:44.:38:48.

to this. This will not play well for you in Scotland on the approach

:38:48.:38:54.

to the referendum, will it? I think his response is entirely

:38:54.:39:00.

predictable. I think he would be better spending his time telling us

:39:00.:39:04.

how independent Scotland is going to be defended. The government

:39:04.:39:09.

policies are quite clear. What we don't know was what the SNP plan

:39:09.:39:13.

for Defence in relation to Scott Flinders. We do not know what we

:39:13.:39:23.
:39:23.:39:26.

will be in or out of any tour. -- NATO. We also know that there are

:39:26.:39:30.

thousands of jobs in Scotland related to Faslane. We have heard

:39:30.:39:40.
:39:40.:39:43.

nothing about how they will go to be redeployed. I think the sub-

:39:44.:39:47.

standard question on defence are for the SNP to answer. He were

:39:47.:39:52.

talking about plans under independence. Scottish CND have

:39:52.:39:58.

published their plan on disarmament. This leaves the UK Government and

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effects of Scotland becomes independent. I think everyone

:40:04.:40:09.

understands although the SNP's seemed no unwilling to admit it,

:40:09.:40:12.

but there will be significant differences in Scotland is

:40:12.:40:19.

independent. There will be differences on defence, a currency,

:40:19.:40:25.

our economy, potential differences in membership of the EU. They must

:40:25.:40:30.

tell us what these differences would mean, what an independent

:40:30.:40:33.

Scotland would look like and why it is better than the arrangement we

:40:34.:40:39.

have as part of the United Kingdom. The onus is on them to come up with

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the answers. Thank you. A social media onslaught forced a

:40:47.:40:50.

small Scottish Council into a spectacular U-turn this week.

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Martha Payne was briefly banned from posting snaps of her school

:40:55.:40:59.

dinners by a goal and Bute Council. Widely regarded as heavy handed,

:40:59.:41:02.

little did they realise the global support this nine-year-old would

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receive. As the story served up the perfect

:41:07.:41:12.

tasty treat for journalists around the world. A little girl from her

:41:12.:41:15.

health was the third most talked- about subject on global Twitter.

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Martha's meals had already attracted attention but this

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newspaper article was too much for Argyll and Bute Council. It was

:41:24.:41:29.

banned. It was disappointing because I know how much more song

:41:29.:41:36.

was enjoying it. It was a shame that it happened so suddenly

:41:36.:41:42.

through no fault of our own. Due in the course of the day, celebrity

:41:42.:41:47.

chefs expect him and social media flexed its new-found muscles.

:41:47.:41:52.

Politicians also stepped in. There was a change of heart. I would

:41:52.:41:57.

encourage the child to continue doing what she is doing. To be fair

:41:57.:42:03.

to the child, she has rated Argyll and Bute school meals 10 out of 10.

:42:03.:42:07.

20 years ago, a child banned from carrying out her own project would

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not have merited a mention in the local paper. It touched a nerve.

:42:12.:42:16.

There was concern for the council was being heavy-handed. As the

:42:16.:42:22.

story flashed around the world, Twitter users decided it was an

:42:22.:42:27.

injustice and piled the pressure on. The social media element comes on

:42:27.:42:32.

and it does not get left on one website. It course round and

:42:32.:42:37.

everyone is adding their feedback, their opinions and the council have

:42:37.:42:43.

seen that everyone was talking about it. Without having a thought-

:42:43.:42:48.

out plan, we have made a mess of it. Quirky stories have also attracted

:42:48.:42:53.

public attention. Now the rise of alternative publishing means people

:42:53.:42:57.

power can challenge judicial authorities in ways that it could

:42:57.:43:02.

never have been imagined. Just before we came on air, I spoke

:43:02.:43:12.
:43:12.:43:16.

to a councillor. It was a very bad experience. We got it wrong at the

:43:16.:43:23.

start. I am happy to admit that. I hoped we have rectified that.

:43:23.:43:30.

do you think it had such an air? always hits a nerve regarding

:43:30.:43:38.

school dinners. I fully appreciate that. I hoped we can rectify this

:43:38.:43:44.

as soon as possible. Do you appreciate how this taps into the

:43:44.:43:50.

frustrations a lot of parents have with councils such as or more

:43:50.:43:56.

zealous child protection. --? fully understand the concern of

:43:56.:44:04.

parents. Frustration is something we must work together with to try

:44:04.:44:09.

to sort out. Sometimes common sense flies out the window, but hopefully,

:44:09.:44:17.

common sense will prevail. Their two sides to this story. A lot of

:44:17.:44:23.

people supported the council's position. That is understandable as

:44:23.:44:33.

well. We are 100 % behind what the child is doing. As you said, there

:44:33.:44:37.

is another side to the story. We have spoken to the dinner staff for

:44:37.:44:47.
:44:47.:44:51.

more than two weeks now. We had a meeting set up with Mr Payne. In my

:44:51.:44:56.

opinion, the dinner ladies have been wrongly caught in the middle

:44:56.:45:06.
:45:06.:45:08.

of this whole fiasco. There is no blame whatsoever on them. It has

:45:08.:45:11.

been an upsetting time for the council. What made you change your

:45:11.:45:21.
:45:21.:45:21.

mind. --? The only thing that made us change our mind was that we got

:45:21.:45:25.

it wrong and decided to readdress that as soon as possible. There is

:45:25.:45:29.

nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong. We're doing our very

:45:29.:45:39.
:45:39.:45:48.

best to rectify it. What was the Michael Russell is the hour MSP. I

:45:48.:45:55.

have been in constant contact with him on this. After the second press

:45:55.:46:01.

release went out for the council he telephoned me just to have a

:46:01.:46:04.

conversation regarding that. you speak to Michael Russell

:46:05.:46:11.

yourself? I spoke with them later on in the afternoon. It was not 10

:46:11.:46:17.

who made you change your mind and the council's mind? Definitely not.

:46:17.:46:24.

That would never happen. He and I have an understanding. He is the

:46:24.:46:28.

elected leader of Argyll & Bute Council. Irrespective of which

:46:28.:46:33.

party are in power in Hollywood, he would continue to work with whoever

:46:33.:46:39.

holds power in Holyrood. We will continue to do that. What lessons

:46:39.:46:44.

can be learned from this? We have seen an onslaught from social media.

:46:44.:46:51.

It seems like your council might have been living in the dark Ages?

:46:51.:46:58.

I agree with you 100%. We will be smartening up on social media. You

:46:58.:47:02.

learn from your mistakes. The first thing to do is admit we have made a

:47:02.:47:08.

mistake. We will learn from this and move on from this. The longer

:47:08.:47:17.

we try to attach blame to this day later we will solve the problem.

:47:17.:47:24.

Are you going to apologise? I would certainly apologise to the girl

:47:24.:47:28.

effect has caused her any angst whatsoever. I will be meeting her

:47:28.:47:37.

father on Thursday to see if we can find a way forward. We have met

:47:37.:47:41.

with the catering staff and teachers from the school and agreed

:47:41.:47:49.

a way forward. Unfortunately this blew up right in the middle of a

:47:49.:47:55.

these meeting. What can a council do to avoid a PR disaster like

:47:55.:48:00.

this? It is hard to comment. We have only been the council's

:48:00.:48:10.
:48:10.:48:15.

communications team since the 22nd. -- May 22nd. Now the news. Good

:48:15.:48:21.

afternoon. The UK Government is planning to announce a 1 billion

:48:21.:48:25.

pound contract with Rolls-Royce for it nuclear submarines. It is the

:48:25.:48:29.

strongest signal yet that there will be a replacement for Trident

:48:29.:48:34.

despite the objections from the Liberal Democrats and the Scottish

:48:34.:48:40.

Government. The fleet which carries the nuclear deterrent is based at

:48:40.:48:45.

Faslane on the Clyde. Today the UK Defence Secretary gave the clearest

:48:45.:48:52.

sign yet that Trident will be replaced. We will be announcing a

:48:52.:48:57.

commitment to the major refurbishment of the Rolls-Royce

:48:57.:49:02.

plant at Derby which builds these reactors. Not just for the nuclear

:49:02.:49:10.

deterrent submarines but also for an hour attack class. If Scotland

:49:10.:49:14.

becomes independent the SNP would want a nuclear free Scotland with

:49:14.:49:19.

Trident out. The party also believes spending billions

:49:19.:49:24.

replacing trident is wrong. This is not about jobs but about the

:49:24.:49:29.

obscenity of spending �100 billion on a weapons system that is no

:49:29.:49:34.

longer required and is morally unjustified. The final decision

:49:34.:49:41.

will not come until 2016 after the next UK General Election and after

:49:41.:49:46.

the UK independence referendum. number of people convicted of

:49:46.:49:49.

drink-driving in Scotland has fallen by one-third over the past

:49:49.:49:54.

five years. The number of people convicted of being over the limit

:49:54.:50:03.

has dropped to just 5348 last year. Now the weather forecast. Good

:50:03.:50:09.

afternoon. It is a big improvement as far as the weather is concerned

:50:09.:50:13.

for this afternoon. A lot of dry weather across the country. There

:50:13.:50:18.

will be some showers in the north- east but it should brighten up here

:50:18.:50:22.

during this evening. There will be some sunshine across western

:50:22.:50:27.

Scotland extending in the land during the afternoon. That is all

:50:27.:50:37.
:50:37.:50:38.

for now. This week, official figures showed that marriages are

:50:38.:50:45.

on the rise but we are still awaiting the result of Holyrood's

:50:45.:50:52.

consultation on the same sex and marriage. Our reporter has been

:50:52.:50:56.

looking at why equal marriage proposals have become such a big

:50:56.:51:03.

issue in Scotland. Scotland's first civil partnership in 2005 attracted

:51:03.:51:08.

a crowd of press and television crews. The SNP Government is now

:51:08.:51:14.

considering a change to law to allow gay marriages in churches.

:51:14.:51:24.

Some oppose this. Some suspect that there was a loss in parliament

:51:24.:51:30.

recently because of this issue. The SNP are worried this might fracture

:51:30.:51:37.

their coalition for a yes. There has been pressure at Holyrood from

:51:37.:51:44.

religious organisations and equal rights campaigners. I think the

:51:44.:51:49.

majority of SNP's are in favour of equal marriage. That is what the

:51:49.:51:55.

opinion polls say and what I find when I am out and about. But there

:51:55.:52:00.

is still a strong voice in the parliament saying that no person or

:52:00.:52:05.

organisation should be forced to be involved or to approve of same-sex

:52:05.:52:11.

marriage. There must be protection for the churches and others who do

:52:11.:52:18.

not agree with this. They might believe that sex between two people

:52:18.:52:22.

of the same gender is wrong and that is a belief that must be

:52:22.:52:29.

protected. Legislation is now being considered by countries across

:52:29.:52:34.

Europe. In Westminster David Cameron has backed plans to allow

:52:34.:52:41.

same-sex couples in England and Wales to marry. If you want to look

:52:41.:52:48.

at human rights Paris in years, as Scotland may want to do as the move

:52:48.:52:55.

towards a referendum. Of those asked in a poll were their same-sex

:52:55.:53:04.

couples should have a right to get married 64 % agree. 26 % disagree.

:53:04.:53:08.

On whether religious organisations should have the right to decide

:53:08.:53:17.

whether or not to conduct same-sex marriages 68 % agree and 61 -- 21 %

:53:17.:53:26.

disagree. The results of a same-sex marriage consultation will be

:53:26.:53:36.
:53:36.:53:41.

published later this month. But now I am joined in the studio by two

:53:41.:53:49.

men. You're poll said that people agree with same-sex marriage, but

:53:49.:53:56.

it would, wouldn't it? Increasing majorities around the world say

:53:56.:54:03.

they support same-sex marriages. A majority of MSPs signed our equal

:54:03.:54:07.

marriage pledge. What we are seeing to the Scottish Government is

:54:07.:54:10.

listen to the public can be parliament, you have got the green

:54:10.:54:16.

light now to go ahead with legislation. Does this show that

:54:16.:54:20.

the churches are out of touch with what the public are thinking?

:54:20.:54:27.

think what the poll tells us very much is that it would show that. It

:54:27.:54:32.

started with a very leading question and when you start with a

:54:32.:54:36.

leading question you get a misleading answer. It is always a

:54:36.:54:41.

good idea to avoid asking a direct question seeing should someone had

:54:41.:54:46.

the right to something? The public in general are very weary to

:54:46.:54:51.

suggest that someone should not have a right. You have

:54:51.:54:58.

automatically distorted this result. The poll that matters is the three-

:54:58.:55:02.

month long consultation which took place at the end of last year in

:55:02.:55:07.

which the vast majority said marriage should not be redefined.

:55:07.:55:12.

We are hearing there is a lot in favour of keeping marriage as it is.

:55:12.:55:16.

What are you ready lines in this? We know what you're ideal would be

:55:16.:55:22.

but looking at the David Cameron option of same-sex marriage but not

:55:22.:55:27.

in church, we do agree with that? do not think so. We agree with

:55:27.:55:32.

religious freedom. Those bodies which do not want to conduct same-

:55:32.:55:37.

sex marriage should not have to but those bodies that do want to should

:55:37.:55:43.

be allowed to and I think most people would agree with that.

:55:43.:55:48.

about diesel option as we almost have in Europe and on the Continent,

:55:48.:55:55.

would you agree with that? current legislative framework,

:55:55.:56:01.

whether in Scotland, Britain, or Europe, it does not allow us to do

:56:01.:56:07.

that. Could certain religions the observe one speed on the motorway

:56:07.:56:13.

while other religions have to observe a different speed? That

:56:13.:56:20.

cannot happen. We are being offered a blank cheque that cannot be

:56:20.:56:25.

cashed and it is back to the issue of equality legislation. It has to

:56:25.:56:31.

have a blanket impact. This is a key point. We had a UK ministers

:56:31.:56:36.

seeing in England that perhaps the churches cannot be protected. You

:56:36.:56:40.

might make promises about this but they could be hollow promises

:56:40.:56:44.

because human rights legislation will not allow judges to be forced

:56:44.:56:49.

to carry out same-sex marriages. Europe we have had same-sex

:56:49.:56:55.

marriage for over a decade now. In that entire time there has never

:56:55.:56:58.

been one judgment by the European Court of human rights or any

:56:58.:57:05.

domestic court that has encouraged let alone required that theme --

:57:05.:57:08.

the groups conduct same-sex marriages. Unfortunately that is

:57:08.:57:12.

not true. Churches in Denmark have been open to challenge and been

:57:12.:57:18.

compelled to go ahead with same-sex marriages when they wanted not to.

:57:18.:57:23.

Been matter is what happens in Scotland. It has been made

:57:23.:57:31.

abundantly clear that these protections and exclusions cannot

:57:31.:57:36.

be delivered. We will be in the same position as we were when we

:57:36.:57:41.

were told that Catholic Church is adoption agencies would be

:57:41.:57:43.

protected and the Scottish Government could not follow through

:57:43.:57:49.

on that. Without any compromise from either side you cannot meet

:57:49.:57:55.

have we? It is not for you just about protecting traditional

:57:55.:58:01.

marriage. If I am right in seeing you actually opposed all same-sex

:58:02.:58:06.

relationships and you do not want to see any legislation that

:58:06.:58:12.

facilitates same-sex relationships which the Church thinks our protest.

:58:12.:58:17.

The law does not allow for the new legislation to apply to some and

:58:17.:58:22.

not to others. What you would prefer to see his compulsion and

:58:22.:58:26.

then the reality that is what would happen. You would want teachers to

:58:26.:58:31.

be compelled to teach children that same-sex relationships are valid

:58:31.:58:36.

and should be prized, whether or not they believe in it. You would

:58:36.:58:42.

criminalise people who did not agree with you. The reassurances

:58:42.:58:52.

are not holding much sway. European Convention on human rights

:58:52.:58:59.

protects your right not to conduct same-sex marriages. Of course there

:58:59.:59:06.

will always be a minority that a pause black civil rights movements,

:59:06.:59:10.

votes for women, in time people will look back on this and think it

:59:10.:59:18.

is wrong. Same-sex marriage is not a human right. To equate it with

:59:18.:59:24.

sexism or racism is completely wrong. It is not that. We have seen

:59:24.:59:29.

advances made on gender equality and racial equality, is it not be

:59:29.:59:34.

seen? It is not the same, it is not right, we have even seen a European

:59:34.:59:39.

Court decision that says it is not the same. They need to stop being

:59:40.:59:43.

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