Browse content similar to 17/06/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon. Welcome to Sunday Politics. | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
It is decision day for Greece as the country goes to the polls for | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
the second time this year. Results determine Greek membership of the | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
bureau and could plunge Europe into economic chaos. | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
During the first Gulf war, Britain sent 53,000 troops to the Middle | :01:04. | :01:11. | |
East. Could we fuel anything like that kind of firepower again? I | :01:11. | :01:19. | |
will speak to the Secretary of State for Defence Philip Hammond. | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
And on Sunday Politics Scotland, the SNP Leader of Argyll & Bute | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
Council, admits they made a mistake trying to ban Martha's School Meal | :01:25. | :01:34. | |
blog. And same sex marriage. And I would | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
apologise to mar that if it has cost her any... We will be trying | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
to find a way forward. The Equality Network and the Catholic Church go | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
head to head over how they want the Scottish government to legislate. | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
And as the Euro house of cards wobbles, we ask the Scotland Office | :01:49. | :01:59. | |
:01:59. | :01:59. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1350 seconds | :01:59. | :24:30. | |
how they plan to protect Scotland's We are not comparing ourselves with | :24:30. | :24:38. | |
the Americans. Workforces, even after the changes announced, will | :24:38. | :24:48. | |
:24:48. | :24:49. | ||
be, after the Americans, one of the biggest in the world. Let us look | :24:49. | :24:59. | |
:24:59. | :25:00. | ||
at Syria. What resources could we contribute? The UK has a fast | :25:00. | :25:08. | |
capability. And no aircraft carriers. We have an air base in | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
Cyprus. It would give us the ability to mount operations in the | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
eastern Mediterranean. A bar to lure strategy involves cutting | :25:18. | :25:28. | |
:25:28. | :25:40. | ||
full-time troops and replacing The experts do not think you can | :25:40. | :25:47. | |
compensate. Frankly, the experts are in the British are made and | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
they do think that the Territorial Army can play a more significant | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
role. Under the last government, training budgets for the | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
Territorials were cut. The proxy covenant between the Territorial | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
Army and the reservists. They did not get the training they were | :26:05. | :26:12. | |
promised. What we have done is committed to ring-fenced budget, | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
�1.8 billion over 10 years to provide the Ket and training that | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
the Territorial Army need. They will be integrated more effectively | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
into the regular Army. It has already been talked about that much | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
closer linking of the Territorial Army units with regular units. They | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
can then train together and work up their sticker -- skills together. | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
We believe they would be of significant support. Particularly | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
in a sustained operation. In future, if we do get involved in a | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
sustained operation, as we get into the second and third year, he will | :26:52. | :27:00. | |
start to see bigger proportions of a verb -- reservists. Many famous | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
regiments are on the line in your cuts. Can you guarantee that | :27:05. | :27:12. | |
historic regiments will be just as much of the brunt as English once - | :27:12. | :27:22. | |
:27:22. | :27:25. | ||
- Scottish ones. It is focused on how to distribute the reductions in | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
manpower across everything that is based on military Wrobel -- logic | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
will the English or Scottish regiments bear the brunt? I can | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
tell you that the way it is done will be demonstrably failed -- | :27:41. | :27:48. | |
demonstrably fair. So that people in the wider community see it as | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
spare and, based on proper logical and -- analysis. Your defence | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
spending, you are some that starts to rise again by 1% in real terms | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
after 2015. The Chancellor has told us there will have to be more | :28:04. | :28:11. | |
spending cuts in 2016 and 2017. Has the then Speaker exempted? The 1% | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
increase in after 2015 is only on the equipment programme. Our budget | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
has been built on the assumption which has agreed with the Treasury | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
that there will be a 1% increase in the equipment purchase and support. | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
Whatever cuts happen elsewhere, you will get that extra 1%? That is the | :28:30. | :28:40. | |
:28:40. | :28:49. | ||
Back welcome to Sunday's politics Scotland. | :28:49. | :28:56. | |
Coming up, we ask Scotland Office minister if they think the spending | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
plans for Trident will play badly and Scotland. | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
An epic scale for Argyll and Bute council as this quiet Highland | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
village becomes the focus of intense worldwide interest. The | :29:08. | :29:18. | |
:29:18. | :29:20. | ||
school dinner Sagar,... There is no PR jargon, people are blunt about | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
what they think about products and services. There has been a lot of | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
beer and that fear is older men back from engaging. | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
As figures out this week show marriage is on the rise in Scotland, | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
we ask the Equality Network and the collet -- Catholic Church what they | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
think will come out of the government's same-sex marriage | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
consultation. If you have spent the past week | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
going to the revolving door of politicians appearing at Leveson or | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
watching a flame pass by your street, you may have missed a few | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
very significant financial announcements. Our business and | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
economy Ender has the highlights. What money would Scott Hughes if we | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
bought for independence? Would it be a Scottish Power and or perhaps | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
the euro though not too popular right now. Would it be this from | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
the Bank of England. This is the front-runner. The implications of | :30:15. | :30:20. | |
an independent Scotland currency being run from Scotland are causing | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
more trouble than any other issue. In reassuring people that | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
investments and markets will be stable through the transition, | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
Scotland's finance minister at John Swinney went further this week. He | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
suggested regulation of Scotland's banks should be overseen from | :30:37. | :30:44. | |
London. The Bank of England is as much an institution of Scotland as | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
cities of any other part of the United Kingdom. It is essentially | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
providing the type of financial activity that an independent | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
Scotland would require. It happens to provide that within the United | :30:58. | :31:05. | |
Kingdom. What Whitehall agree to that? If so, on what conditions? Is | :31:05. | :31:15. | |
:31:15. | :31:18. | ||
it legal under European law? If other financial powers are a shade | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
between Edinburgh and London, would it look much like independence? The | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
awkward contact the -- context is a currency union across the North Sea | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
is feeling. There is a lack of the but it -- political and fiscal | :31:33. | :31:42. | |
union. That crisis is casting a big shadow over economy. The world | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
economy is a much less welcoming environment in which to rebalance | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
the UK economy than two years ago. Not only have the euro area | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
problems escalated, to the point where exit for Greece and other | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
countries is the subject of widespread speculation, but signs | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
of a slowing in China, India and other previously buoyant in | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
emerging economies such as Brazil are appearing daily. It is more | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
than two years since market started punishing other countries for not | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
paying off debts. This weekend in Greece sees a showdown between | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
markets and porters. If austerity is rejected, it may spread | :32:28. | :32:36. | |
contagion to other countries. In turn, that could severely weakened | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
banks based in strong economies, Germany, the Netherlands, vital | :32:42. | :32:52. | |
:32:52. | :32:53. | ||
trading partners for us. The Treasury and Bank of England, and | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
this crisis that helps the supply of credit. The problem looks like | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
an increasing lack of demand. Businesses look at the economic | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
weather and they do not want to take a risk on investment. | :33:08. | :33:16. | |
If Anna Westminster studio, we have the Conservative MP David Mundell. | :33:16. | :33:22. | |
Lot of worries about the economy. The SNP are trying to reassure | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
people about the economy and an independent Scotland. We have the | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
Finance Secretary John Swinney saying that retaining the pound | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
under independence is in the best interests of Scotland and for the | :33:34. | :33:42. | |
UK. I think that John Swinney was trying to reassure people as to | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
what the economic situation in Scotland would be after | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
independence, he has seriously have failed. He has raised more | :33:50. | :33:57. | |
questions than he has answered. The issue remains for the SNP who were | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
here again today. They do not want to talk about independence to | :34:01. | :34:08. | |
people in Scotland. What they mean by independence. If they want to | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
keep the arrangements for the currency exactly as they are, what | :34:13. | :34:19. | |
is the purpose of independence? Their proposal would give Scotland | :34:19. | :34:26. | |
much less say over the power and. The Bank of England would not be | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
required to take interest into account. As the Ducie that they | :34:32. | :34:42. | |
:34:42. | :34:45. | ||
could have a Scottish member on the Monetary Policy Committee. -- | :34:45. | :34:51. | |
reduce C. They are certain things that the EC have already been | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
discussed. There have been no discussions with the Bank of | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
England about how an independent Scotland would seek to operate. All | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
these things are simply assertions. It is like the issue with the EU, | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
there have been no sub-standard discussions about Scotland would be | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
part of the European Community. All these things have not been thought | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
through and it is only now that the spotlight is coming on what | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
independence actually means that the SNP are finally having to | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
answer questions about these really significant issues for economy. | :35:27. | :35:33. | |
us look at the bank lending scheme that was announced. The SNP claim | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
this is papering over the cracks. There are substantial ways to boost | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
jobs and the economy. I have heard so much about the shop already | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
projects. The answer to them is that the SNP have had over �1 | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
billion in addition monies which they did not to participate from | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
the consequence -- Comprehensive spending Review. They could take | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
policy choices to spend money on the show already projects. They | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
have not done so. This whole exercise is actually a smokescreen | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
for not taking responsibility for for their own policy decisions. | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
That is what having a parliament is about. It is about making decisions | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
and taking responsibility for them. The SNP have chosen not to proceed | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
with their own budget for these shop already projects. If Mr | :36:27. | :36:36. | |
Salmond wants to take that issue, he should not the British | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
government. They Greeks are going to the polls. What is a concern for | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
Scotland if Greece believes the euro? What is David Cameron doing | :36:46. | :36:53. | |
in Mexico? It is a matter for the Greek people as to who they bought | :36:53. | :37:03. | |
for her and we will see that later on today. -- Gaisce Awards. It is | :37:03. | :37:12. | |
beneficial that Greece remains within the euro. There is no doubt | :37:12. | :37:19. | |
that it would impact on the halt the UK. It would impact on Scotland. | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
We cannot isolate our economy as we have seen across the UK and in | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
Scotland from what is happening in the Eurozone. We must hope that we | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
can get a resolution in Greece which sees Greece stay in the | :37:33. | :37:42. | |
:37:43. | :37:46. | ||
Eurozone but with, on a basis that allows that to be sustainable. | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
us look at another issue. Philip Hammond was spelling out his plans | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
for its nuclear reactors. This has been the reaction from the SNP. | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
This is the tip of the expert is far as expenditure is concerned. It | :38:01. | :38:07. | |
is estimated that the outturn across the weapons system could be | :38:07. | :38:13. | |
up to �25 billion. What is quite clear from Scotland is that the | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
people of Scotland are opposed to nuclear weapons systems on the | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
Clyde. The Scottish Parliament is supposed. An issue but civic | :38:23. | :38:29. | |
Scotland, the Scottish churches are paused and saw the trade unions. It | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
is an obscenity that we are pressing ahead at this time with | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
this particular system. Pressing ahead with this system, David | :38:37. | :38:44. | |
Mundell, as he was pointing out, the Scottish population as opposed | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
to this. This will not play well for you in Scotland on the approach | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
to the referendum, will it? I think his response is entirely | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
predictable. I think he would be better spending his time telling us | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
how independent Scotland is going to be defended. The government | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
policies are quite clear. What we don't know was what the SNP plan | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
for Defence in relation to Scott Flinders. We do not know what we | :39:13. | :39:23. | |
:39:23. | :39:26. | ||
will be in or out of any tour. -- NATO. We also know that there are | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
thousands of jobs in Scotland related to Faslane. We have heard | :39:30. | :39:40. | |
:39:40. | :39:43. | ||
nothing about how they will go to be redeployed. I think the sub- | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
standard question on defence are for the SNP to answer. He were | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
talking about plans under independence. Scottish CND have | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
published their plan on disarmament. This leaves the UK Government and | :39:58. | :40:04. | |
effects of Scotland becomes independent. I think everyone | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
understands although the SNP's seemed no unwilling to admit it, | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
but there will be significant differences in Scotland is | :40:12. | :40:19. | |
independent. There will be differences on defence, a currency, | :40:19. | :40:25. | |
our economy, potential differences in membership of the EU. They must | :40:25. | :40:30. | |
tell us what these differences would mean, what an independent | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
Scotland would look like and why it is better than the arrangement we | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
have as part of the United Kingdom. The onus is on them to come up with | :40:39. | :40:47. | |
the answers. Thank you. A social media onslaught forced a | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
small Scottish Council into a spectacular U-turn this week. | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
Martha Payne was briefly banned from posting snaps of her school | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
dinners by a goal and Bute Council. Widely regarded as heavy handed, | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
little did they realise the global support this nine-year-old would | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
receive. As the story served up the perfect | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
tasty treat for journalists around the world. A little girl from her | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
health was the third most talked- about subject on global Twitter. | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
Martha's meals had already attracted attention but this | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
newspaper article was too much for Argyll and Bute Council. It was | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
banned. It was disappointing because I know how much more song | :41:29. | :41:36. | |
was enjoying it. It was a shame that it happened so suddenly | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
through no fault of our own. Due in the course of the day, celebrity | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
chefs expect him and social media flexed its new-found muscles. | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
Politicians also stepped in. There was a change of heart. I would | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
encourage the child to continue doing what she is doing. To be fair | :41:57. | :42:03. | |
to the child, she has rated Argyll and Bute school meals 10 out of 10. | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
20 years ago, a child banned from carrying out her own project would | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
not have merited a mention in the local paper. It touched a nerve. | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
There was concern for the council was being heavy-handed. As the | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
story flashed around the world, Twitter users decided it was an | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
injustice and piled the pressure on. The social media element comes on | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
and it does not get left on one website. It course round and | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
everyone is adding their feedback, their opinions and the council have | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
seen that everyone was talking about it. Without having a thought- | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
out plan, we have made a mess of it. Quirky stories have also attracted | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
public attention. Now the rise of alternative publishing means people | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
power can challenge judicial authorities in ways that it could | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
never have been imagined. Just before we came on air, I spoke | :43:02. | :43:12. | |
:43:12. | :43:16. | ||
to a councillor. It was a very bad experience. We got it wrong at the | :43:16. | :43:23. | |
start. I am happy to admit that. I hoped we have rectified that. | :43:23. | :43:30. | |
do you think it had such an air? always hits a nerve regarding | :43:30. | :43:38. | |
school dinners. I fully appreciate that. I hoped we can rectify this | :43:38. | :43:44. | |
as soon as possible. Do you appreciate how this taps into the | :43:44. | :43:50. | |
frustrations a lot of parents have with councils such as or more | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
zealous child protection. --? fully understand the concern of | :43:56. | :44:04. | |
parents. Frustration is something we must work together with to try | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
to sort out. Sometimes common sense flies out the window, but hopefully, | :44:09. | :44:17. | |
common sense will prevail. Their two sides to this story. A lot of | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
people supported the council's position. That is understandable as | :44:23. | :44:33. | |
well. We are 100 % behind what the child is doing. As you said, there | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
is another side to the story. We have spoken to the dinner staff for | :44:37. | :44:47. | |
:44:47. | :44:51. | ||
more than two weeks now. We had a meeting set up with Mr Payne. In my | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
opinion, the dinner ladies have been wrongly caught in the middle | :44:56. | :45:06. | |
:45:06. | :45:08. | ||
of this whole fiasco. There is no blame whatsoever on them. It has | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
been an upsetting time for the council. What made you change your | :45:11. | :45:21. | |
:45:21. | :45:21. | ||
mind. --? The only thing that made us change our mind was that we got | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
it wrong and decided to readdress that as soon as possible. There is | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong. We're doing our very | :45:29. | :45:39. | |
:45:39. | :45:48. | ||
best to rectify it. What was the Michael Russell is the hour MSP. I | :45:48. | :45:55. | |
have been in constant contact with him on this. After the second press | :45:55. | :46:01. | |
release went out for the council he telephoned me just to have a | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
conversation regarding that. you speak to Michael Russell | :46:05. | :46:11. | |
yourself? I spoke with them later on in the afternoon. It was not 10 | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
who made you change your mind and the council's mind? Definitely not. | :46:17. | :46:24. | |
That would never happen. He and I have an understanding. He is the | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
elected leader of Argyll & Bute Council. Irrespective of which | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
party are in power in Hollywood, he would continue to work with whoever | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
holds power in Holyrood. We will continue to do that. What lessons | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
can be learned from this? We have seen an onslaught from social media. | :46:44. | :46:51. | |
It seems like your council might have been living in the dark Ages? | :46:51. | :46:58. | |
I agree with you 100%. We will be smartening up on social media. You | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
learn from your mistakes. The first thing to do is admit we have made a | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
mistake. We will learn from this and move on from this. The longer | :47:08. | :47:17. | |
we try to attach blame to this day later we will solve the problem. | :47:17. | :47:24. | |
Are you going to apologise? I would certainly apologise to the girl | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
effect has caused her any angst whatsoever. I will be meeting her | :47:28. | :47:37. | |
father on Thursday to see if we can find a way forward. We have met | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
with the catering staff and teachers from the school and agreed | :47:41. | :47:49. | |
a way forward. Unfortunately this blew up right in the middle of a | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
these meeting. What can a council do to avoid a PR disaster like | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
this? It is hard to comment. We have only been the council's | :48:00. | :48:10. | |
:48:10. | :48:15. | ||
communications team since the 22nd. -- May 22nd. Now the news. Good | :48:15. | :48:21. | |
afternoon. The UK Government is planning to announce a 1 billion | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
pound contract with Rolls-Royce for it nuclear submarines. It is the | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
strongest signal yet that there will be a replacement for Trident | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
despite the objections from the Liberal Democrats and the Scottish | :48:34. | :48:40. | |
Government. The fleet which carries the nuclear deterrent is based at | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
Faslane on the Clyde. Today the UK Defence Secretary gave the clearest | :48:45. | :48:52. | |
sign yet that Trident will be replaced. We will be announcing a | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
commitment to the major refurbishment of the Rolls-Royce | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
plant at Derby which builds these reactors. Not just for the nuclear | :49:02. | :49:10. | |
deterrent submarines but also for an hour attack class. If Scotland | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
becomes independent the SNP would want a nuclear free Scotland with | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
Trident out. The party also believes spending billions | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
replacing trident is wrong. This is not about jobs but about the | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
obscenity of spending �100 billion on a weapons system that is no | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
longer required and is morally unjustified. The final decision | :49:34. | :49:41. | |
will not come until 2016 after the next UK General Election and after | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
the UK independence referendum. number of people convicted of | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
drink-driving in Scotland has fallen by one-third over the past | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
five years. The number of people convicted of being over the limit | :49:54. | :50:03. | |
has dropped to just 5348 last year. Now the weather forecast. Good | :50:03. | :50:09. | |
afternoon. It is a big improvement as far as the weather is concerned | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
for this afternoon. A lot of dry weather across the country. There | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
will be some showers in the north- east but it should brighten up here | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
during this evening. There will be some sunshine across western | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
Scotland extending in the land during the afternoon. That is all | :50:27. | :50:37. | |
:50:37. | :50:38. | ||
for now. This week, official figures showed that marriages are | :50:38. | :50:45. | |
on the rise but we are still awaiting the result of Holyrood's | :50:45. | :50:52. | |
consultation on the same sex and marriage. Our reporter has been | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
looking at why equal marriage proposals have become such a big | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
issue in Scotland. Scotland's first civil partnership in 2005 attracted | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
a crowd of press and television crews. The SNP Government is now | :51:08. | :51:14. | |
considering a change to law to allow gay marriages in churches. | :51:14. | :51:24. | |
Some oppose this. Some suspect that there was a loss in parliament | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
recently because of this issue. The SNP are worried this might fracture | :51:30. | :51:37. | |
their coalition for a yes. There has been pressure at Holyrood from | :51:37. | :51:44. | |
religious organisations and equal rights campaigners. I think the | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
majority of SNP's are in favour of equal marriage. That is what the | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
opinion polls say and what I find when I am out and about. But there | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
is still a strong voice in the parliament saying that no person or | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
organisation should be forced to be involved or to approve of same-sex | :52:05. | :52:11. | |
marriage. There must be protection for the churches and others who do | :52:11. | :52:18. | |
not agree with this. They might believe that sex between two people | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
of the same gender is wrong and that is a belief that must be | :52:22. | :52:29. | |
protected. Legislation is now being considered by countries across | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
Europe. In Westminster David Cameron has backed plans to allow | :52:34. | :52:41. | |
same-sex couples in England and Wales to marry. If you want to look | :52:41. | :52:48. | |
at human rights Paris in years, as Scotland may want to do as the move | :52:48. | :52:55. | |
towards a referendum. Of those asked in a poll were their same-sex | :52:55. | :53:04. | |
couples should have a right to get married 64 % agree. 26 % disagree. | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
On whether religious organisations should have the right to decide | :53:08. | :53:17. | |
whether or not to conduct same-sex marriages 68 % agree and 61 -- 21 % | :53:17. | :53:26. | |
disagree. The results of a same-sex marriage consultation will be | :53:26. | :53:36. | |
:53:36. | :53:41. | ||
published later this month. But now I am joined in the studio by two | :53:41. | :53:49. | |
men. You're poll said that people agree with same-sex marriage, but | :53:49. | :53:56. | |
it would, wouldn't it? Increasing majorities around the world say | :53:56. | :54:03. | |
they support same-sex marriages. A majority of MSPs signed our equal | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
marriage pledge. What we are seeing to the Scottish Government is | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
listen to the public can be parliament, you have got the green | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
light now to go ahead with legislation. Does this show that | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
the churches are out of touch with what the public are thinking? | :54:20. | :54:27. | |
think what the poll tells us very much is that it would show that. It | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
started with a very leading question and when you start with a | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
leading question you get a misleading answer. It is always a | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
good idea to avoid asking a direct question seeing should someone had | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
the right to something? The public in general are very weary to | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
suggest that someone should not have a right. You have | :54:51. | :54:58. | |
automatically distorted this result. The poll that matters is the three- | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
month long consultation which took place at the end of last year in | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
which the vast majority said marriage should not be redefined. | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
We are hearing there is a lot in favour of keeping marriage as it is. | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
What are you ready lines in this? We know what you're ideal would be | :55:16. | :55:22. | |
but looking at the David Cameron option of same-sex marriage but not | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
in church, we do agree with that? do not think so. We agree with | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
religious freedom. Those bodies which do not want to conduct same- | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
sex marriage should not have to but those bodies that do want to should | :55:37. | :55:43. | |
be allowed to and I think most people would agree with that. | :55:43. | :55:48. | |
about diesel option as we almost have in Europe and on the Continent, | :55:48. | :55:55. | |
would you agree with that? current legislative framework, | :55:55. | :56:01. | |
whether in Scotland, Britain, or Europe, it does not allow us to do | :56:01. | :56:07. | |
that. Could certain religions the observe one speed on the motorway | :56:07. | :56:13. | |
while other religions have to observe a different speed? That | :56:13. | :56:20. | |
cannot happen. We are being offered a blank cheque that cannot be | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
cashed and it is back to the issue of equality legislation. It has to | :56:25. | :56:31. | |
have a blanket impact. This is a key point. We had a UK ministers | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
seeing in England that perhaps the churches cannot be protected. You | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
might make promises about this but they could be hollow promises | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
because human rights legislation will not allow judges to be forced | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
to carry out same-sex marriages. Europe we have had same-sex | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
marriage for over a decade now. In that entire time there has never | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
been one judgment by the European Court of human rights or any | :56:58. | :57:05. | |
domestic court that has encouraged let alone required that theme -- | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
the groups conduct same-sex marriages. Unfortunately that is | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
not true. Churches in Denmark have been open to challenge and been | :57:12. | :57:18. | |
compelled to go ahead with same-sex marriages when they wanted not to. | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
Been matter is what happens in Scotland. It has been made | :57:23. | :57:31. | |
abundantly clear that these protections and exclusions cannot | :57:31. | :57:36. | |
be delivered. We will be in the same position as we were when we | :57:36. | :57:41. | |
were told that Catholic Church is adoption agencies would be | :57:41. | :57:43. | |
protected and the Scottish Government could not follow through | :57:43. | :57:49. | |
on that. Without any compromise from either side you cannot meet | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
have we? It is not for you just about protecting traditional | :57:55. | :58:01. | |
marriage. If I am right in seeing you actually opposed all same-sex | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
relationships and you do not want to see any legislation that | :58:06. | :58:12. | |
facilitates same-sex relationships which the Church thinks our protest. | :58:12. | :58:17. | |
The law does not allow for the new legislation to apply to some and | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
not to others. What you would prefer to see his compulsion and | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
then the reality that is what would happen. You would want teachers to | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
be compelled to teach children that same-sex relationships are valid | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
and should be prized, whether or not they believe in it. You would | :58:36. | :58:42. | |
criminalise people who did not agree with you. The reassurances | :58:42. | :58:52. | |
are not holding much sway. European Convention on human rights | :58:52. | :58:59. | |
protects your right not to conduct same-sex marriages. Of course there | :58:59. | :59:06. | |
will always be a minority that a pause black civil rights movements, | :59:06. | :59:10. | |
votes for women, in time people will look back on this and think it | :59:10. | :59:18. | |
is wrong. Same-sex marriage is not a human right. To equate it with | :59:18. | :59:24. | |
sexism or racism is completely wrong. It is not that. We have seen | :59:24. | :59:29. | |
advances made on gender equality and racial equality, is it not be | :59:29. | :59:34. | |
seen? It is not the same, it is not right, we have even seen a European | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
Court decision that says it is not the same. They need to stop being | :59:40. | :59:43. |