23/09/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland

Good morning. Thank you it that for joining us for the new and extended

programme. The Treasury Secretary announces plans to crack down on

anyone who has homes or other assets above �1 million may not be

paying all the taxes they should. Or will we hear more about Nick

Clegg's wealth tax. Will it improve the economy? And time for a fresh

crackdown on yobs who will abuse at the police? No sign yet, as the

chief whip hangs on to his job. Eric Pickles says his posher

colleague should get out of the Cabinet.

And in the Sunday Politics Scotland....

Michael Moore in Brighton talks to us about welfare reform and Nick

Clegg's chances of survival. Plus, the campaign to get every man

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1778 seconds

and his dog on the march for Firstly, under Labour, Labour got

the gap between it rich and poor wader, do not forget about that.

The wealthy, who own much more than the percentage they are paying in

tax, should be paying more. It is absolutely ridiculous that they

should pay less than the marginal rate. Where the wrong to agree to

that? All the evidence shows that it would clearly raised a lot more.

Not, I disagree with that. All the academics who have studied this do

not agree with that. I do not mind if the Conservatives said that the

next election, if you fought for us, we will not be that tough on the

wealthy. But that is because we know how to tax the rich in a way

to get more revenue from them full. Surely that is the way to go.

seem to a one part of the coalition saying we need to freeze taxes and

benefits and genocide saying that you need more tax on the welfare.

Surely some sort of deal will have to be done? We have been following

the label Liberal Democrat approach in many aspects. The higher tax

rates at are bringing in a less revenue. Seven-tenths of the

reduction is coming from spending cuts. How have you looked at the

numbers question mark. What we are saying is we do not think there

should be any more cuts affecting the working court until the wealthy

Parts of the Conservative Party believe that George Osborne is not

putting enough in this respect. that is another debate. It's is

Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.

Coming up on the programme... Marching to the tune of

independence. But are they just preaching to the converted?

And we will be live at the Liberal Democrat Conference with Michael

Moore. How will the the impending welfare reform changes impact on

the working poor? I do not think that work pays. If you have

children and you are part-time. You have always got concerns for the

likes of babysitters and child care. Thousands of people gathered in

Edinburgh this weekend for a march and rally for independence. It was

staged under the banner Independence for Scotland and is

not part of the official Yes, Scotland campaign, but all the

leading lights were there. The event aims to build support ahead

of the referendum. With annual marches planned until the vote, it

could become a significant staging post in the two-year campaign. Our

reporter Andrew Kerr followed the marchers. A merry dance to it warm-

up for the march ahead. You are getting you back painted? Does that

sure your dedication to the cause? I hope so. I am looking to raise

awareness. As the march got underway, the aim was clear.

Raising the profile of the independence movement. The marchers

are heading into the gardens for the rally. The fault of Edinburgh

have come out to watch them, but it is then they have to convince about

independence. I am sure that even the fall in the northern islands

can hear as. The crowd chanted independence now, but quite a wait

until the referendum. A we are wanted to put forward this totally

democratic process so that everyone has the chance to put forward their

argument. I thought 2014 was the right date for that campaign.

one third of Scots believe in independence now, everyone of us as

good two years to persuade another one person and then we are warm and

dry. So will, as Margo MacDonald said, one-third of people want

independence. Optimism abounds. think the tonight and a delight

this demonstrates that there are people who are convinced that

independence is the right way forward. There was a slight scuffle

when the Union flag was unfurled. Or will Foy, may well look back and

this with pride. I have no doubt whatsoever that there will be a

change in the future. There will be one more rally next year. There

will also be another and 2014. It will be crunch time for the

supporters of independence. With me in the studio is the former

Labour MP, Independent MSP and now Chair of the Yes, Scotland Advisory

Board, Dennis Canavan. What are much as for? To the ever persuade

anyone or are they simply preaching to the converted? They raised the

profile of the campaign and I think yesterday's event was very

successful. They were young people, all people, men, women, black

people, or Mark marching together demonstrating their commitment to

Scottish independence, simply because an independent Scotland

will break a better future for the people of Scotland because the

people of Scotland will be able to share that future. People were

saying this was a lot less people to march for devolution, saw was

that a disappointment? It the early days of Scotland United, we had

similar attendances, but we built on it. And we will build on that

attendance we got yesterday. There are a lot of Hearts and minds out

there in Scotland. There are a lot of people who do not know how they

would vote in two years' time and we have to win the Hearts and minds

by putting forward a positive vision that we have for the future.

House said it is this campaign so that people do not think it is

simply another name for the Scottish National Party. Of this

are, by the very nature of their party, the Scottish National Party

will play a very important role in this. But this is a very broad

church of people from various party political affiliations. What is the

role of Alex Salmond? As the First Minister, he has to Speaker behalf

of the Scottish government. A as regards the campaign, is he the

figurehead? Yes, he would obviously be a leader in the campaign. There

are aspects of Scottish government policy but I disagree with. Within

a hour Yes, Scotland campaign, there are a lot of people who will

have reservations about what the Scottish gunmen is saying and

certain aspects of policy. But what unites us is that the democratic

right of the people in Scotland to determine their own future and

become full members of the international community. After all,

I am not a nationalist. If the is the clash of interests between the

domestic interests of the Scottish National Party and that of the

campaign, do you trust Alex Salmond unequivocally? I had the good

working relationship with them. he knows that I disagree with some

of the things that his government have done and will do in the future.

But what brings us together in the Yes, Scotland is this desire to

come together to maximise the yes vote in the referendum, on the

grounds that the people of Scotland should determine their own future.

And you can guarantee that he will put that before party political

interests? If there was a DevoMax question on the ballot paper, which

you vote against that? I do not want a second question on the

ballot paper. The Yes, Scotland campaign will be campaigning for

independence. When the to be an independent Parliament, would

actually lead to a boost for a Scottish Labour? He is, I actually

think that the party was badly hurt by Tony Blair abandoning socialism

and that really hurt them in Scotland. To an extent, the

Scottish National Party have filled a vacuum. The likes of free

prescriptions and getting rid of tuition fees and getting rid of

nuclear weapons. If there where an independent Scotland, it could be

the death-knell not for Scottish Labour, but actually in lead to

their renaissance. At the return to the Parliament for you? I not say

that. You are not ruling it out! Not, I am not looking at. But who

knows what the future will hold. it disappointing that the new

leaders ship of the Scottish Labour Party has not to form words there

intentions as regards this campaign. They have got to do a lot better

than what the dead it in 1979 with the fought back then. You could now

have the Scottish and Labour Conservatives bought saying that

you should go for goal in 2014, without putting forward any

alternatives. We agreed on one question for the referendum and

that would give people a simple choice for the people of Scotland.

With positive campaigning in the name for six campaign, we will win

in 2014. How important is it now that this moves beyond the process

and you move towards developing the campaign. Is there a problem with

momentum? A as I said yesterday, it is going to be more like a marathon

than a short distance print. We have got to time the campaign for

it to work. We already have and the Yes, Scotland campaign a great team,

a executive management team, who are involved in advising the

strategy for that campaign. He will develop the strategy for

fundraising to finance it and I think if we can get across the

positive arguments to the people of Scotland about what independence

will mean, we will win in 2014. Now this may be our first outing

after the summer recess, but in Holyrood the politicians began

their stretching exercises a couple of weeks ago warming up for the

explosion of political energy that was the budget. Let's take a look

back at the Week in Sixty Seconds. The summer of sport is over but the

finance secretary is building on the momentum with a �1 million

budget handout to Scotland's elite athletes. Would an independent

Scotland have automatic membership of the EU? They have been calls for

an inquiry which has provoked heated exchanges. You want to gag

me a game in public. It is such an important topic, but she wanted

this matter to be gagged? Claim and counter-claim on welfare, the work

and pensions Secretary said an independent Scotland would not be

able to afford its welfare bill. The First Minister insists it would.

It is total nonsense. And our national emblem shows its cuddly

sides as it is unveiled as the official mascot for the

Commonwealth Games. Welfare. How can Scotland afford to

go it alone? That was the question posed by Work and Pensions

Secretary Iain Duncan Smith when he was in Glasgow this week to outline

his flagship policy of Universal Credit. The Scottish Government say

of course they can pay their own way, their main concern is how to

mitigate the damage caused by coalition benefit cuts. But away

from the pure politics, how are changes to the benefit system

affecting those who rely on support? Hayley Jarvis reports from

Easterhouse, the Glasgow suburb that inspired Iain Duncan Smith's

mantra that work should always pay. He still has 2002, Iain Duncan

Smith, then Leader of the Opposition when to a dilapidated

housing estate and left within knew were aimed. 10 years on, the now

Work and Pensions Secretary is back in Glasgow promoting his Universal

Credit. From next year, benefits like housing and income support

will be rolled into one payment. The UK Government says it will be a

fairer system and will save �7 billion. But how will the reforms

play at at Easterhouse today where unemployment remains high and

almost a third of people are on benefits? I caught up with some

part-time workers at a community centre said to have impressed Iain

Duncan Smith. Now we new premises, they say they are already feeling

the sting. I am worried because I know there will be cats and cuts

will be made to people who get working Tax Credit and things like

that. Even if I did get the council tax benefit, when it comes to April,

I would lose it anyway. I am quite poor. So to since advice in Glasgow

are bracing themselves for the introduction of the Universal

Credit which they believe will lead to more people on low incomes

coming through their doors. It is undoubtedly going to happen. There

will be more multiple debt situations. But people cannot

manage on fields and fuel, their general living costs are going to

create debts in other areas. Scottish Parliament broke new

ground when it refused to accept the UK wide reforms won it looks at

the impact it will have year. Meanwhile, it has passed its own

legislation to protect certain benefits. I have had to find �23

million to support the mitigation of the cuts to welfare benefits

that have been put forward by the United Kingdom Government. I found

that. By making difficult choices within the Budget. Those are the

choices I make to ensure we can fulfil our obligations. As Iain

Duncan Smith spreads the word on Universal Credit, the Chancellor

says he wants to lose a further �10 billion from the welfare budget.

But could it mean breaking the link between benefits and inflation,

something that the work of Pensions Secretary has rejected before?

Whatever happened in the past is not the same now. You look at what

happens at the time and then you make a decision. To be honest, I

have not discussed it and I do not plunge do so until I know the

inflation figures. Such a move would not go down well back in

Easterhouse where people say the cost of living is already too high.

There will be opposition from the Liberal Democrats. Their leader

says he will not back further cuts unless there is a trade-off for

taxes for the wealthy. Will Nick Clegg be able to stick to his guns?

We can go live now to Brighton, where we are joined by the

Secretary of State for Scotland and the Liberal Democrat MP for

Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Michael Moore.

George Osborne once �10 billion of cuts from the welfare budget. Is

that something you support? Their discussions have been held about

what the next Spending Review will we look like and what will be

happening in any of the departments across Government, so that is not a

figure that I accept it and is not one I expect to see delivered.

Would you accept any further cuts to the welfare budget? What we are

seeking to do with welfare reform and short piece was focused on

Universal Credit, is make sure we have a system designed to help the

most vulnerable with that we have people and we can make sure that

work pays. We are making sure that as we do that, we are rejecting a

degree of fairness into some of the toughest decisions we have had to

take about the economy and Government spending overall. In the

last year, we have been seen more Scot come out of tax altogether so

that by next April, we will have 160,000 Scott will not be paying

Scott -- paying tax. 2 million will be paying less in tax every year

and for pensioners, we have made some important strides. We have got

the biggest cash increase in the state pension ever and by next

April, Scottish state pensioners will have had �500 more than they

would have otherwise had. In the toughest of times, we have focused

on making sure we are fed to people. Just to be clear about this, are

you saying that you are absolutely happy with the mechanics and the

effect of Universal Credit? We are determined to get Universal Credit

right. We accept this is a very ambitious change in the offer. What

people also recognise across the country is that the current system

is far too cumbersome, far too complicated for people to navigate

their way through. We need to make it a lot simpler so that people

know what their entitlements will be an to get those reliably. We

also need to make sure that we make sure that work pays. But we take

less away from people as the going to work and as they increase their

row was. That has been one of our biggest challenges. We are making

sure that reform happens. Coalition former policy Tsar is

saying he thinks the mechanics of all the best do not work. Nick

Clegg has said, no more cuts to anything until we get some movement

on wealth tax. Is that not opposition? We want to see the

wealthy pay a much higher at Burton on taxation in the country. A much

higher share of the tax from them. It is in a fair way of ensuring

that in tough times, people can contribute the right amount.

would you do that? What we are not going to do is balance the books on

the back of the power. That is our key message at this conference and

when we will be taking around the country. We will have to make some

tough choices. But as a Liberal Democrats in the Coalition, we are

making a central commitment to fairness in the welfare system and

fairness in our tax system. Are you saying that if you bring in the

wealth taxes that you want and perhaps you might later explain how

he would raise these taxes, and two would be targeted, but are you

saying the principle is that you bring in these wealth taxes,

therefore, you can reduce the amount of money that has to come

out of the welfare budget? Cuts will not have to go ahead to the

same extent if you can offset that with what taxes? -- wealth taxes.

We believe it is right that the wealthy should give more. We will

continue to argue that case across the country. But particularly

within the Government so that we get the right balance between the

wealthy paying their share and making sure we have got support for

You signed the pledge as regards tuition fees. By you sorry? So it,

I did not hear that. Did you say and by apologising? Yes, but I do

apologise, we all have a apologised for that. Nick like has made that

very public statement about that. - - Nick Clegg. We are almost out of

time. Are you apologising for having made the pledge or

apologising for not been able to keep to it? We apologising to make

a pledge which was not going to be deliverable. We were wrong to make

that part of our pre- election campaign. Where you naive or ill-

advised? Where you just totally unprepared for the reality of

coalition politics? We made the wrong decision. We made a pledge

that these circumstances would mean we were unable to keep. We paid for

that in terms of public support in recent years. I think it is right

for Nick Clegg to acknowledge that fact and make sure we are clear or

about what we're going to see in advance of elections about how we

will implement them. Why you come up with your wealth tax plan, you

coalition partners say absolutely not, that looks like you aligning

yourself up for another broken pledge? We are working through the

proposals of the wealth tax. This is not simply what we do within

government. We want to make sure the argument is made across the

whole of Scotland and the United Kingdom. What we're determined to

do is make tough decisions about public spending and make sure we

make the right decisions. We want the benefits system to be share --

fair and make sure that the wealthy pay their fair share. There is talk

of plotting against Nick Clegg? What we Jews say about that? People

will be focusing on the issues. We want to get out across the country

to put forward Olla ideas. We have to leave it there. Thank you very

much. The Deputy Prime Minister has said they would not let the

Conservatives let the wealthy away with tax cuts. He says the voters

realise his party is fighting for fairness. People would find it all

the unacceptable a further fiscal austerity it was picked on to the

poor. They have already gone for a new levy on expensive properties.

It was not clear to be what other plans they had to hit the wealthy.

The river is going to be in power at the next Parliament will have to

introduced further cuts. I think we need to have the debate now in the

middle of this Parliament about the principles which will govern that

process. They are government will make sure that the better-off cough

up. A specialist team of tax inspectors has been increased from

200 to 300. Now, a millionairess will come under scrutiny. Nick

Clegg, perhaps more than any other politician knows the dangers of

promising what you cannot deliver. Now he has to tell them how and

when. He and his that the Liberal Democrat conference. How much is he

trying to just please his own supporters? To be fair, I think it

will please his supporters that he is determined to tax the most

wealthy. He has put a team together to come up with the various options.

But the voters may be sceptical as to whether they can deliver. He has

been unable to deliver this with regard to getting his coalition

partners to agree. Again, he has come out with plans today, but very

little detail. The idea that the wealthy will pay more in difficult

times is popular with the voters, but what the conference will be

asking is how he is going to do anything into practice. About has

died and another seriously injured in a skydiving accident in

Peterborough. It is not the men collided 50 ft above the ground.

One man is in his early Fifties and died at the scene. The other is in

hospital with severe spinal and leg injuries. Households could be

compensated by a electricity and gas suppliers to break Industry

rules. Under the proposals, Ofgem will have the proposals to make the

company's give fines directly to the customer, as opposed to the

Treasury. Special services are being held today to commemorate the

two police officers killed in Manchester. Deal Keegan has been

accused of murdering four people. There will be more news at 635 this

evening. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. The Chief Secretary

to the Treasury and Highlands MP Danny Alexander has been charged

with overseeing the government's Trident review programme. The

Coalition partners disagree about the replacement of the nuclear

deterrent. A final decision will not be made until after the general

election. A 17-year old man has been killed

in a car crash in the Highlands. The accident took place on the road

between Whitebridge and Fort Augustus near the Suidhe viewpoint

at around ten o'clock last night. The car's driver is in a stable

condition in hospital. It is hoped millions of pounds of

funding will bring down waiting times for infertility treatment.

The Scottish government say an extra �12 million will go towards

improving access to IVF in all NHS boards. The money will support the

SNP's commitment to deliver a maximum waiting time of 12 months

for IVF treatment by 2015. Now let us take a look at the

Good afternoon. After a cold night for much of the country, we can

look forward to a fine autumnal day across much of Scotland. It will be

dry with nice smells of sunshine, but will feel cool, particularly in

coastal areas. That is all for now, I will hand

Thanks, Andrew. Now it is time for our regular look at The Week Ahead.

Today we are joined by two former special advisors for the Liberal

Democrats, Christine Jardine and for the SNP, Ewan Crawford. Thank

you both for coming in. A lot in the newspapers about the Liberal

Democrat conference. The Observer is leading on coalition cuts have

been too deep says a key aide to it Nick Clegg. Other trips revolting?

Dashmack will I think this is natural when things are not looking

so good any opinion poll. Any New Statesman this week, he was saying

it was time to back Nick Clegg and that is more what I think you will

see at the conference. People are having to think about what they

have to do here. We are halfway through the coalition and I think

what we will see is a very different approach from Nick Clegg.

What we will see at the conference will be a general movement towards

a different stance. If we are hearing about wealth tax and we do

not have the details of that. Is it going to be plausible? But probably

not. When you asked about Michael move whether he was sorry about

tuition fees, in my head didn't immediately came in was that we met

us that we here at! The trouble is that the Liberal Democrats have

gone into mockery, because Nick Clegg was forced to watch that on

the BBC he. I am sure thinking, when it comes to this wealth tax,

most people are laughing at the prospect of them been able to bring

it in. His the credibility issue a problem? As the think you will see

a lot more campaigning outside government. I think the problem in

coalition is the problem of collective responsibility. What

they're going to try and do now is make it clear to the public what

they actually want to, as opposed to what actually comes out of the

Cabinet decisions. You will see a response to what happened this week.

I think you will see differences in the next couple of years? The and

what way? Her I think you saw the fledgling Movement for the fairer

tax campaign before the Budget when Nick Clegg was pitching for the

10,000 pound tax threshold. Now, I think you will see the wealth tax

campaign. He said this morning that after what happened with tuition

fees he cannot promise that, but he was putting forward the point that

this is what they want. It is more honest for them to do that. Now, in

the Sunday Times, the talk about Vince Cable's war on shady tax

havens. A the front page picture is of the march in Edinburgh. To you

think there is a danger that people will peak too soon? Is it difficult

to bring up momentum or just about raising awareness at the moment?

think it was the good morale- booster for those who were there.

You saw earlier in the programme, Iain Duncan-Smith ducky about

welfare policy. It is an issue reserve to Westminster, but it

could become quite an issue if it was realised that this could be

decided by Holyrood. It is the type of thing which will be more

important that the likes of the march. It was a nice day out and

very enjoyable, but those issues will decide what is more important.

This that imported you move beyond the process and into the policies?

Here is, you need to start talking about the likes of welfare, Defence,