04/11/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland

Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Could Britain

thrive and prosper outside the European Union? Cabinet Minister

Iain Duncan Smith's gave every impression this morning that Yes We

Can! We'll ask Business Minster David Willetts what he makes of

that. It's our top story. They're flying high in the polls

and - they say - winning the arguments on Europe, but can the UK

Independence Party really stand up to the scrutiny that comes with

success? Leader Nigel Farage joins us for the Sunday Interview.

Which of these two men would you like to see in the White House?

With the US election three days away Diane Abbott and Dan Hannan go

head to head on whether Obama or Romney would be better for Britain.

And coming up here in Scotland: Is it time for a radical rethink of

Scotland's drug abuse strategy - as more people are becoming addicts

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1842 seconds

If you're worried about the debt you should be worried about Mitt

Romney. How does he make the deficits good? This is why the

Washington Post and be New York Times refused to endorse them.

Their economic plans do not add up. He wants massive unfunded tax cuts.

He wants an increase in its defence spending. The USA is already in

debt to the tune of 14 trillion. you look at the plan, it is a plan.

We know that with Barack Obama the deficit will draw. There is the

certainty of continued debt. people in Florida thought the plan

was good, Mitt Romney would have gone down. Nobody is going to

return to a balanced budget within one turn, but with Mitt Romney we

have somebody who will try. Even Barack Obama's foreign policy is

alien to British values. There has been a rise in drones over Pakistan.

There is no progress in Middle East peace. I regret the use of drones.

But he has taken America out of a rut -- out of Iraq. Would it be a

return it to Bouch? He implies he is prepared to attack Iran. He

knows nothing about Britain or Europe. He said there was a

cultural component in the success of his real compared to the rest of

the region. He had no kind words. That is not the same as despising

the Palestinians. He said they did not want peace. Under both US

presidents there will be forced on the table as an option as there was

in Libya. I was not big on the Iraq war or the Afghanistan war. But to

say that they should not be any possibility of taking any kind of

action is not responsible. action is on the Pacific Rim. He

does not care about Europe and the UK. Barack Obama's foreign policy

is cheaper. Mitt Romney is more likely to bomb Iran. The who will

win? Barack Obama. If turnout is right it will be Barack Obama.

Therefore I will put my money on Good morning.

As Holyrood prepares to debate the Scottish governments drugs strategy

and will be finding out if this residential rehab centre for

addicts is only half full. Alex Salmond is set to become the

longest serving First Minister of Scotland. How has he done?

And more on the race to the White House. Does the Trident debate give

Holyrood and presented focus in Washington.

An emergency summit is to be held next month to discover why

occupancy rates at Scotland's residential drug treatment centres

are sold. With Holyrood debating the drug strategy this week one

addiction expert says the residential option is dying off in

Scotland. There is a bright future for one

recovering drug addict. majority of my peer group are doing

well. Without this project I do not know where I would be. This man it

spent 20 years on methadone until his spell in residential rehab.

More than 24,000 people are given methadone in Scotland. The

programme is under review after deaths linked to methadone. The

Liberal Democrats say the programme should not be used as a scapegoat

for what is a complex issue. Labour say methadone is not working. The

Conservatives are calling for more residential sectors.

There are some incredible stories of recovery, but there is a warning

that places like this may not survive in the long term in

Scotland. The residential sector is dying.

need to know whether we want it to die. When we compare like with like,

residential treatment is no more expensive than other forms of

treatment. Since last year residential treatment centres have

been reporting low levels of occupancy. In Inverness it stands

at 40 %. Banner measures to some it is being held next month to find

out why people are not being repaired. The policy is there.

There is a grassroots momentum. There may be something in the

middle blocking it. It may not be one thing or one person. It may be

101 different things. Although supporters of residential rehab I

knew it is cost-effective there are equally strong arguments about cost

on the other side and also on the benefits of methadone. It decreases

the death-rate in those were prescribed it at least five or six

cold. It decreases drug abuse and crime. It might be possible to get

drug three and even mentally healthy while staying in a country

house somewhere, but they have to come back, usually to the council

estate where they live. A at a debate about treatment continues

their race is on to find effective strategies to help the 65,000

people struggling with drug addiction.

Joining me now in the studio are Ruth Davidson and William Rennie.

Also joining the is Mark McDonald. Mike McDonald, and you will be one

of the key speakers in the debate. What is the policy of the

government on residential care? Very charitable to describe me as a

key speaker. Residential rehab has a role to play as part of the

bigotry that agenda. The figures that are being shown to me show

that there are low levels of waiting list for people who need

residential rehab. The issue is about need. It is around clinical

assessment of the needs of the individual. No two individuals are

the same when it comes to addiction and the need for rehabilitation. So

be to categorise residential rehab as a suitable for all addicts would

be a mistake. We have to offer a package of measures. Given that

there is a residential care package, it all comes as one, it seems that

from the numbers that we have discovered in a report, it has not

been used as widely as it was being used five years ago. Is that a

deliberate policy? Have you decided it is less effective than other

methods of treatment? What you need to do is offer a range of different

treatments, dependent on the needs of the individual. For some people

residential rehabilitation will be the most suitable option. You

package was talking about looking further ahead to a sum at which

will discuss these matters. I am sure that the government and all

politicians will be taking a keen interest to see what the outcome of

the sum that is. 40 % occupancy end summer residential rehabilitation

centres. As that concern you? it does. The one that has featured

in the package there is in my area of Glasgow. That is at 50 %. There

is a big problem in Glasgow. This is only have the story. You pack is

did not say that the number of rehab centres has been reduced to

23 since the new drug strategy for Scotland came in. Fewer beds and

still in some cases on they have of them are being filled. We have to

find out what the blockage is. People are not get any opportunity

to go in there. There seems to be a specific problem with referrals

into the system, rather than a specific policy decision, even

accepting what you have said about the fall in numbers. If you are to

have a sophisticated response to this what should be done? It should

be based on need. Budgets are tighter. Residential care is much

more expensive. I am sure that is a factor in commiseration. --

consideration. 1st May experts said that it is not this sally Moore

expensive. -- it is not Mrs Sally more expensive. -- are not more

expensive. You need to have the support mechanisms. You have now

got things like recovery cafes which create a support network for

people to get into. They can extract themselves from their

environment that slip into drugs. It is not for politicians to decide

what kind of care people should get. It should be left that to the

health professionals. They work with this day in and day out.

Politicians do not know how to deal with the decisions. Leave it to the

health professionals. Just to clarify the policy, I know that you

say it is dependent on the individual and that would be

reflected in how the doctors allocate places and what a treat at

the pink is appropriate, but if the number of residential

rehabilitation unit has closed down and there is this ongoing under

occupancy and the number of drug users is increasing and the number

of drug death is increasing, this would seem to suggest that the

policy is dead. We have the lowest level of drug users and the

population for one decade. It is constantly in decline. We have the

lowest numbers among its young people using drugs for one decade.

That is the backdrop to which the debate should be framed. You have

to profile the services that should be offered. I think William Rennie

and aye are clear on this. It is about need. The point is about

clinicians taking the best decisions on behalf of the

individuals. If you ask clinicians what people need they will take the

decision that is most appropriate for the individual. Just to clarify

the statistics. The estimated number of individuals with a drug

problem in Scotland A's 59,000, compared with 55,000 in 2006. That

is an estimated increase of 4,300 individuals since 2006. There is a

particular problem with the number of women regarding drug fatalities.

That figure has jumped to 117 % increase. It shows that methadone

is reasonably successful. It is quite effective at keeping people

alive and healthy. That is part of the reason why these numbers have

changed. That is the reality. you look at the methadone programme

and leaving aside the cost, even though it is a huge cost, there is

also the cost in lives. More people now died taking methadone then be

to taking heroin. It cost lives. When the drug strategy was brought

in, drug deaths was cited as one of the reasons. That was one of the

reasons why needed strategy to work. Look at the soaring numbers. The

number has gone up. One of the reasons that we were so supportive

of the drug strategy was to be wanted treatment to be part of a

cure so that people could be help of long term at use. Met the don't

can stabilised people's lives, but some people need to be put on a

reducing does so that they do not spend 20 years on it. A I am not

suggesting we should not have different approaches. But you said

it was a simplistic approach. problem with what Ruth Davidson is

saying is that she is saying that methadone as part of the problem.

But the good that she quotes -- the figures that she courts include

other drugs. What about the tone of the debate? The Daily record

campaign was deplorable. It was unacceptable. Methadone has changed

the lives of drug users dramatically. Russia does not have

the programme that Scotland has got. HIV rates among subjecting drug

users in the Russia is 35 %. It is below five % year. That is

staggering. We should not blame methadone for that problem. This

overall strategy and it was introduced have wide support. Will

that support hold or does this strategy you require to be refined?

The support is there for the strategy. The comments of Ruth

Davidson are over the top. We do not want to see people dying as a

result of drug use whatever drug that may be, but we are talking

about less than one-fifth of drug users in treatment or on prescribed

drugs. There is a big picture out there. To focus the debate so

narrowly on to the use of methadone misses the bigger picture. I would

hope that the Scottish Conservatives when they come to the

debate will have something more to say that simply bashing the

methadone programme. Do you accept that the bigger picture includes

deprivation, poverty, lack of job opportunity in many of the

communities? Absolutely. There are a range of different factors that

affect an individual becoming a drug user. One of the. It was made

earlier during the discussion was around support. I have met a number

of organisations who are supporting families to enable them to support

the individual because one of the worst things that can happen is if

the individual loses their ties to the family. We need to look at it

as our whole strategy. We need to look at how are families and others

can play a role in the support of the individual. And you'll have

Alex Salmond will soon become the longest serving First Minister. How

has he done? We have been looking back. The modern Scottish

Parliament has seen four first ministers.

Death took Donald Stewart, a so- called middle over office removed

Henry McLeish. Defeat did for Jack McConnell, but Alex Salmond goes on.

This is him arriving at this week's First Minister's Questions, a

familiar routine five years after he first got the job. He often

starts conversations with advises asking, are we winning? In recent

years, the answer has been yes, but sometimes only just. The 2007

elections saw Mr Salmond to beat Labour by a slim margin, just one

seat, but it was enough. I heard a rumour. I think we won the

election! I think the election of Alex Salmond as the first SNP First

Minister of Scotland was significant, because until then

they were just an oppositional party, marginal to British politics

and devolution. Even after devolution, it took a number of

years before the SNP were fit to govern. One of his first challenges

was winning the Commonwealth Games for Glasgow. He lobbied delegates

and voters. It was a formula which would deliver him the biggest

victory of his political career four years later. I heard another

rebuff. We have won another election! It certainly was an

endorsement of Alex Salmond, but also the team that he had built

around him. That is one of his skills, the teams he built around

him. It was about his vision for the future. His days as First

Minister have not been uncontroversial, not least the

release of the Lockerbie bomber. The last fortnight has probably

been his worst as a row has reached over EU legal advice. But the

politician remains personally popular. He is doing extremely well

by any yardstick. Only in recent times could Tony Blair in his

heyday have had ratings which exceed where Sam and -- Alex

Salmond is. Alex Salmond is more popular. It is no coincidence that

support for independence is going down, support for the SNP is going

down, and satisfaction with the First Minister is going down, and

that is all happening at the same time. And that is tied up with the

referendum. Alex Salmond's place in Scottish history does but depend on

the length of his service as First Minister. Delivering the referendum

guarantees he will be remembered. His next challenge will be winning

that vote. Victory, and he will be in the job for many more years to

come. Defeat, and his time as First Minister it may be more limited.

With me now is Murray Ritchie, the longest serving Scottish Political

Editor of the Herald. That itself deserves an award! And in an hour

and the studio, Henry McLeish, former Labour First Minister.

If you look at Alex Salmond's personal journey, he has

fundamentally changed personal positions on NATO, most recently,

on the monarchy, on Stirling, yet he has always maintained his social

justice position. What does that tell us? He is obviously the major

figure in Scottish politics by a mile row. He has changed his

position of all the parties on major issues. If you look now at

the Labour Party, their attitude on Trident has changed. Johann Lamont

has embraced Trident now, and that is a weapon in store for the SNP.

The Tories, David Cameron has said that if we reject independence,

there will be a new constitutional settlement for Scotland, which is

new. The Tories have not said that for a while. The last time they

said it, it turned up to Peter Reid -- to be true. And the Liberals are

rediscovering federalism. They are talking about a federal Scotland if

we reject independence. So he is not just changing SNP policy, but

the policies of the other parties as well. This is all down to the

SNP's success in the last election and his leadership which was the

major factor in that success. he is not a man he was burdened by

self doubt. What is the balance here? If you have someone he was

very dynamic and can have the sort of influence that Murray has

outlined, you cannot afford to be coming across as arrogant to the

public. What kind of balance is he striking? The balance he strikes is

the one that in politics, it is always better to get respect and to

be like to -- light. He does not show popularity in all quarters of

Scotland, but he does show dynamic leadership. He is changing the face

of Scottish politics. More importantly, he is also defined the

laws of politics by winning the majority in 2007. Parliament was

set up in Scotland to make sure that did not happen. He has brought

his party from being a protest party on the fringe to being a

majority force in Scotland. The tea -- the judicious combination of

Scottishness and firm leadership has won through with the public.

The public do not support independence to any great extent,

but they have nevertheless voted for competent government and a

Scotland that is moving forward. Unlike predecessors, including

myself, he does speak for the nation. This is the important

difference. He is the lead of Polly route, but also a national leader.

That is important when they are discussing constitutional issues.

You are right. Alex can be arrogant, he can be insistent on things, but

look also at the fact that he has shown courage. The Libyan bombing

incident, that was good for Scotland, not liked by the public

at the time, but a fair decision, and he took it. Just before we

leave this, I use saying that Johann Lamont, as leader of

Scottish Labour in Holyrood, she cannot speak for Scotland?

course she can, she aspires to be the leader in that parliament and

to be a national leader. That is not the issue. Since the Alex

Salmond's election, he has dominated Scottish politics, and

the reason for that is that the Unionist parties have lost traction

in the post devolution period. He has taken the idea of Scottishness,

the Saltire, patriotism and pride, and he has wrapped his party around

it. The other parties have failed to do that. The other parties could

learn from the First Minister's and reconfigure their policies. That is

the great weakness, currently top of the Unionist parties. Let me

give you a quote from the former chair of the Scottish Council for

Voluntary organisations. She said that loyalties were negotiable, but

now politics is a punter free zone of poisonous tribalism. Is that a

picture you recognise? Yes, it is. I think there is a poisonous

tribalism in Scottish politics. I can go back to the days of the

original Scottish Labour Party. But the vitriol that was poured on some

people at that time was awful. This is the attitude that a lot of

senior people in the Scottish Labour Party have, you are either

for us are your against us. -- or you are against us. All the parties

have to recognise that the parliament was supposed to be

consensual, the opposite of the Westminster adversarial system. We

were supposed to work together a lot more. When you watch First

Minister's Questions now, as I do it my retirement, it is not

inspiring to watch people standing up and reading scripted insults and

name-calling. We have to rise above that. Henry, I'll have to ask you

to come back to that later, because you are both staying with us, and

we will be looking at the American election and some of the latest

from the newspapers, but right now, let's cross over to London for the

race with -- news with Maxine Mawhinney and Andrew Kerr.

Good afternoon. The US presidential candidates are heading into the

final two days of campaigning, with the outcome still too close to call.

The latest survey suggests that Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are

level, with 48% each of support. No matter how bad a storm is, we

bounced back. No matter how tough times are, we are all in this

together. We rise or fall as one nation and one people.

A final push for votes as the clock ticks towards Tuesday's vote.

Barack Obama is asking for more time to change America. The former

president was brought into help him make his case. His challenger at

Mitt Romney is not letting up either. Both candidates are truth -

- are frantically trying to attract undecided voters in battleground

states. The economy is the big issue of this election.

question of this election can stand this. Do you want more of the same,

what do you want real change? Barack Obama promised change, but

he could not deliver it. I promise change, and I have a record of

achieving change. The two contenders both have a punishing

Schedule ahead of them today. Barack Obama will go to New

Hampshire and then Florida and Ohio. Mitt Romney will go to Ohio first

and then to Pennsylvania. In this vast country, millions of Americans

have already cast their ballots in the early voting to. I am voting

for Barack Obama. He is making some changes. I feel like with Barack

Obama being in office for the next election, things will change for

the better in America, regardless. An opinion poll today but the

candidates each at 48%, with just two days of campaigning left. The

election is still too close to call. Previously unseen text messages

between David Cameron and Rebekah Brooks have been published by the

Mail on Sunday. The messages are from a series of text messages and

e-mails handed to Lord Justice Leveson during his media standards

inquiry. The Children's Commissioner for

Wales has backed calls for a new inquiry into the abuse of children

in care homes in North Wales in the 1970s and 80s. The commissioner

says he suspects a group of people were protected, enabling MPs to

continue. Winter is definitely here and snow

has been falling in the South West of England, covering parts of

Somerset and Wiltshire in up to three inches of the white stuff. He

was have sent in their pictures of the snow. It has already caused

disruption on the roads as well as a suspended do service this morning.

That is all the news for now. There is more news on BBC One at 5:50pm.

Good afternoon. A huge piece of an aircraft carrier is to be floated

in the Clyde. It is the last part of a ship to be moved to Rosyth.

Stephen Cottrell is at the BAE yard systems -- BAE Systems yard in

Govan. This is the largest section of the

Queen Elizabeth class career built here in Govan. It will be assembled

in Fife. The process of getting it there has already been affected by

the weather. The original plan was to take it round the northern tip

of Scotland, but it will now go around the southern coast of

Scotland. It will be in Fife in nine days.

Trains between Dundee and Aberdeen are suspended after a minor

derailment. The cross-country service came off the tracks that

Inverkeilor in Angus before 10am today. No-one was injured. It is

not clear when the line will reopen. The Aberdeen shares in at -- Emeli

Sande was a big win at the medal awards last night. She scooped

three separate titles. The event was held in Liverpool.

The showers we have had in the South and West will begin to pull

away into the Atlantic, and then the bulk of the country will be dry

and bright, with sunshine in the North and West. Today, we have a

south-easterly wind which is coming off the North Sea, so cloudier in

the North East. Top temperature, Strap yourselves in. It is time for

With the in the studio is Dr Christopher Carman from Strathclyde

University. Still with me is Murray Ritchie and Henry McLeish. Looking

at their headlines today regarding the presidential election, it has

been described as the longest, got ears, silliest election ever.

There are some of the other headlines. How are you calling it

at this stage? Their close. There is a disconnect between national

polls and state level polls. The national polls have it very close.

The state level polls are the interesting ones. Or high York is a

big one. Wisconsin and Florida at others. -- Ohio. It is where the

polls break in these states. We are interested in Ohio, Wisconsin -

they are breaking four or armour -- they are breaking for Barack Obama.

If we look at the possibility of a Trident free Scotland and a nuclear

disarmed UK how would that be seen in the White House? Mitt Romney

tends to reflect Barack Obama in some of these big issues. Mitt

Romney kept saying he supported a lot of what Barack Obama had said

in the third televised debate. They have not specifically committed on

Trident, but I would speculate they would both be in favour of keeping

Trident actor of. They would be in favour of a strong NATO. If we look

at something else, Gordon Brown is saying that an independent Scotland

would be a British colony. He said under SNP plans that would be

perfect. What you think of that and by

saying it now? It is unfortunate that the word Colonial has been

used. It was a thoughtful piece. He is saying that no matter what the

relationship between Scotland and the UK is after independence, we

will still be dealing with the United Kingdom. For me it does

highlight the point that we're based with two options.

Independents or Unionism. If you read between the lines of the

Gordon Brown article he is saying we need more devolution. I suspect

that idea of being part of the UK is acceptable to most Scots, but I

want to see more home rule powers. I think basically that Gordon Brown

is reinforcing my message. What about the timing? He has been

below the radar or a lot of this. That is true. I have spoken to

Gordon Brown over the last six months about his views on the

constitutional question. I did he has shifted in his view. He does

not have much truck with independence. On other hand

hopefully he will start to argue that secures Scotland in the UK is

the best bet for the future. If you do not want independence let us

have maximum home rule. With an independent Scotland be a British

colony? He was talking about the Bank of England under control might

have over the Scottish economy. The bag of England is a British

institution and therefore some of it belongs to Scotland. Alex

Salmond will welcome Gordon Brown coming back into the political

scene and asking questions. This referendum will be won or lost on

the economy. If enough people could be persuaded that they would be

better off, the SNP would win the referendum. We should welcome