16/12/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland

It is supposed to be a government department getting Burton moving

again. But its transport policy stuck in neutral? We will ask the

The UK Independence Party are why - - riding a wave of Conservative

And are you a shirker or race driver? We debate whether the --

And we explore the psychology behind David Cameron and Ed

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1947 seconds

In Scotland, we review all the At Turtle all day, tackle the

minimum wage. S Waugh or less in the real terms than it was in 2004.

That is shocking. That deficit reduction means that we have to

deal with our debt. Labour let us at a deficit, the largest in

Bet would be useful to get back to the subject of welfare reform. You

want more means testing. Why? universal system is unsustainable.

With the ageing population it is no longer sustainable. We cannot have

universal benefits. I remember, the interview by Frances Maude talking

about on sustainability. But Hutton report showed that public sector

pension costs will go down as a proportion of GDP. Let get real.

There is a demographic problem through the Western world. Can we

still fought, throughout the Western world, to support that the

ageing population with universal benefits? What do we need means-

testing? Means testing it increases the costs. It lower the rate of

uptake. It costs more to administer more. And it leads to higher rates

of benefit fraud. In the long term it will not cost more. It is not

feel that an MP on a salary of �60,000 per year is claiming the

winter fuel allowance. On that basis you should not get free

health care. You want an American- style safety net just for the poor?

Some of us want a universal welfare state. How are you going to pay for

it? More tax? How do we pay for corporate welfare? We spend

hundreds of billions of pounds and try and, Afghanistan, but there is

no money for the poor, disabled, elderly? For them, we must squeeze

down? It is unsustainable? Gentleman, time up. Thank you very

Good morning. Coming up: the economy, the recession, the

recovery. Why does it feel justly be here before, and the year before

that? We have to do something. We have to introduce the game changed

a. If we don't we will be flatlining. There is our last

programme before Christmas. Time This week saw what the Scottish

Government said was the largest fall in unemployment for years. A

glimmer of good news. We're trying to assess where we are now run what

will come away next year. There are just nine shopping days until

Christmas. The buying frenzy masks of a harsh economic realities many

people faced this year. Single mother Jackie has been saving hard

to pay for the pestered season. -- festive. Rising costs, including

child care, means that money does not go far enough. If they do not

match the cost of living in I don't see the point of tax credits. They

are not helping us. The plans that we have at the moment are changing

all the time. It is difficult to predict how things will materialise.

There are so many changes, so many cuts, it is difficult to tell

anybody exactly how it will affect them personally, which is often

what people want to know. Market lives just outside Dumfries. She

says she feels like a prisoner in her own home. -- market. She's

frustrated by a limited transport services and her area. Taiwan to be

dead. Unless something will let me get out and do the things I want to

do. Who will help me on and off my scooter? What has happened in this

year is that councils have tightened up the criteria for three

services. They have increased their charges for a variety of services.

Given the settlement they have going into next year - a reduced

overall settlement - they have been given �70 million and by anarchic

relation match BT million pounds. - - by my calculation that should be

�80 million. Unemployment figures may be down but that is cold

comfort for this man with a call- centre job having come out of

university. Debt is fine for a short time but I would like to go

into a graduate profession ultimately. But it is very

difficult to find him get on to something. Despite a fall in

unemployment the underlying picture in Scotland is weak. Jobs are

falling. An activity is rising. -- inactivity. Growth will be weak

next year, we forecast just over 1%. Against that background there will

not be much job-creation next here. With those week forecast how can we

get growth back? A radical programme of housebuilding. Rather

late 1960s. -- rather like the. The economy has undergone a structural

shift. We must do something. We must introduce a game changer. If

we do not we will be flatlining. There is some good news for the

oil-rich economy of the north-east. The North Sea is going very

strongly. It is in a mature phase. There is more investment as you can

recover more typical sources. We are into that phase now. Overall

the picture for next year looks I am joined by the youth employment

minister. Do you accept that governments cannot make much

difference to the labour market? certainly accept that it is

difficult for a devolved government. But we do have some good news this

week as your piece rightly articulated. The fall in

unemployment, the largest in four years. The youth employment

statistics are certainly a welcome step in the right direction. 25,000

less young people are seeking work at this time of the Year than this

time last year. What about the overall economic predictions? Where

is the evidence that a full range of powers would make a difference

given the unemployment rate in Ireland? I visited Europe and the

last four May and spoke to representatives -- in the last

fortnight. There unemployment levels are something we should be

striving for. We certainly do need a team changes and I would argue

that the game changes the independence referendum. -- a game

changer. In the draft budget we have announced that a large-scale

employment recruitment incentive, in effect a wage subsidy, could

provide up to 10,000 jobs for young people. So there is much more to be

done and more that we could do it in a parliament with job-creating

Paras. Job-creating powers? What does that mean in practice?

Department that has full control of taxation, welfare, National

Insurance, and an ability to invest in large-scale capital investment

projects. -- a Parliament. things like unemployment loss --

laws, whatever Parliament has control that has to control

important levers? Yes, I would argue that. There are European

countries do much better than the United Kingdom. I would argue that

in Scotland we're punching above await. If there has been a

significant fall in youth unemployment. Do you expected to

continue? I would never one to predict labour market statistics

but we are very focused on the need to get more young people into work.

But we also need to be in this for the long haul. I would argue that

the pre-recession figures were too high. That is why I are believer in

independence. Do you see how people get frustrated? When the totals are

bad you blame Westminster, when there could you say it is the SNP.

John Swinney has welcomed the fall in unemployment in Scotland, the

lowest of all the UK country's. But he also said that we need to do

much more given the fall in employment rates. We need to

understand labour market statistics in the round. Behind the numbers

are real people struggling to find work. Let's look at the effect on

real people of the cutbacks in local services. The council tax

freeze has worked out at just under 100 per ounce the year saved per

household. -- �100. When does the balance that where it would be

money well spent for people to have paid that extra? It is important

that those who are struggling the most right now are not asked to pay

more. You will have heard the SNP government talking about the

importance of the social wage. We asked arriving as hard as we can to

keep money in the pockets of hard- pressed people. These measures are

part of and imperative move. But as a result of your council tax these

people are paying more on alternative services. Council tax

is a comparatively small part of local-government income. We have

protected local government's Shea. Not by enough, according to the

professor, who said you are seriously adrift that you are

serious about shoring up services. We have to live within our means.

Oh we want to change those means but until the people of Scotland

vote yes in a referendum we're at the mercy of the UK Government to

in effect give us our budget, out of pocket money. We'll come back to

the economy just a moment but first Spreading Christmas Shia with a

fall on a number of people out of work. But staff here warned that it

is still tough to get work. It is difficult to get a job with so many

people competing for the same job as you. By we have got to continue

our efforts to boost employment base within Scotland. There is an

extra �300 million for the Scottish Government to spend. There where

tidings of discomfort and war four shots when the Scottish Retail

Consortium said that sales were down 1.2 % leading up his Christmas.

Can the UK credit rating came under With me now is an MP and MEP and an

MSP. Thank you all very much indeed for coming in. Margaret Curran,

which we are you voting in the welfare bill? Labour has said

though we will wait to see the details. We are not comfortable

with a government that gives us �3 billion to well-off people. -- its

�3 billion. Whilst attacking people on maternity allowance and tax

credits. That will not help the economy. We're certainly not

comfortable with that as things stand but we must wait to see the

Quite unique in a more detail? it stands, I am certain we will be

voting against it. They might be persuaded that what they are doing

is wrong and affecting the quality of the lives of people on their

benefits. They are presenting a false argument and saying it is

about taking people who are scrounging and not paying their way,

but these benefits will affect the working people. Tax credits have

been successful and material lot to people and attacking those people

does not help anyone. The people worst affected by those are people

who are in work and are struggling to get by another on the moors then

comes. -- the list in comes. believe that all sectors have to

share the burden of trying to reduce the debt. Do you think that

is what is happening now in? want to make sure there is a fair

share of taking the road of this and already this week, we have seen

worries about the triple A credit rating. Labour say we should have a

Plan B and it all seems to be about borrowing more work. I do not think

that is a credible choice to make at all. You can see across Europe

that more borrowing has meant you are unable to borrow a tall and

inflation goes up. That would hit many householders across our

society. We have made the right choices and have tackled the rich

and they are paying more or under the plans. Be enough? They could

always pay more. We will be cracking down on tax evasion. Right

across the board, we have to ensure that everybody carries their fair

share. The number one problem we have is the huge debt that Labour

left the Hind. Even the credit agencies are saying that the

economy is stagnating. If you lose the credit rating, at the borrowing

costs will go up anyway. We have to tackle the huge deficit we are

currently running. The big challenge for Labour is that they

cannot demonstrate how they would balance the books. When you look at

the imperative for economic growth, do you not think now there has to

be a radical rethink of what the strategy is coming out of

Westminster? It is not all bad news and unemployment is falling and is

much lower than many people predicted that this stage. There

have been 1 million private sector jobs created since 2010. There is

good news in some areas. It is absolutely right that the

imperative as for the government to tackle debt levels. The UK has the

highest debt level of any major Western economy. Labour says, let's

spend more money and accelerate the rate of increase of any debt. There

is no silver dot here. There are a number of reforms that the

government is pressing ahead with and there are supply-side reforms,

but it will take a long time to work out the economic mess of the

last Labour government. The current government is doing a good job

itself of threatening the triple A credit rating itself. Borrowing is

going up as a result of these policies... Hang on, George! We do

not need more right wing supply- side economics. What this economy

crucially needs is a demand let recovery. We are above our heads in

debt as opposed to just our next? We have had this government for two

years and all that has happened is that they have reduced their

forecasts every single time and the economy is shrinking. Scotland is

the ad up in which employment fell the most in the UK last year.

Borrowing is going up because we have so many people claiming

benefits. Supply-side economics is the problem. Do you think Scotland

has not done as well in job- creation as in other parts of the

UK? It is a mixed picture and looking back over the last year, in

some months, Scotland has performed better than the UK. We have some

strengths in the Scottish economy such as All Ireland gas. -- Oil and

Gas. There are still a lot of problems in parts of Scotland and

there is no sign of the Scottish government using the powers they

have to help business. They are imposing more taxes on business.

All that is going to do is make it more difficult for the private

sector to grow our way out of recession. What do you what to do

in government to relieve unemployment that you're not being

allowed to divide the Tories? would like to invest more, if we

could, in trying to advance growth. We still have to make sure that we

balance the books and show a credible plan that we can reduce...

Invest more in what, capital projects? We have announced plans

for capital investment at a youth employment programme. We have the

state funded bank lending scheme which the Liberal Democrats have

announced as well. These are all measures to create and stimulate

growth because one of the fundamental challenges that new

businesses face at the moment is a lack of credit. State backing for

lending and the State Bank we're trying to create should help. These

are the right measures to try to stimulate the economy. We have put

in place the facilities for banks to try to make that happen and we

are working with the private sector to see if they can take on and

invest in these infrastructure projects. That is different from

the state doing it itself. The it businesses are sitting on vast

amounts of money but they do not want to spend it because they seem

to have no confidence. How do you turn that around? There is no

silver bullet. It is the government at a UK level and the Scottish

level up using the powers they have. Setting back the rates are

valuation until 2017 is sending the wrong message. Up with capital

spending, we need to sort out the procurement rules because spending

a lot of money on capital does not inflict domestic spending - it at

nearly helps overseas companies. You have international obligations

which require you to go to the cheapest tender or you are at fault

yourself as the purchaser. You cannot ring-fence where the

contracts ago. You cannot but you can look at things like social

obligations which are permitted under EU rules. If it happens in

other countries, it can have him here. Business a business

confidence issue? It is crucial and that is why a lot of measures of

this government have not worked. On the issue of the shovel already

projects, it seems as if George Osborne has given them what they

want. We need to start working on the ground. The track record of the

SNP Government has not been particularly strong on this and the

one thing you do not do in the middle of the recession is cut the

housing budget by 40%. People have a terrible choice between these two

governments and the need eight different course. Thank you all for

that. Stay tuned for our 2012 President Obama will meet the

families of the genetic it school The body of the nurse who was found

hanged after taking a hoax call up from the -- about the Duchess of

Cambridge. She will be buried in her home village tomorrow.

But have been counted in Egypt following the first round of voting

in the referendum on the constitution which has divided the

country. Supporters of President Mohamed Morsi say that early

indications say the vote will go their way.

It has been an unforgettable 12 months for British sport and

tonight the winner of the BBC Sports personality of the year will

be announced. With so many achievements to choose from, the

short list had to be increased. That is all the news for nowt.

Good afternoon. Up rescuers will bring aboard a damaged bought in

which a man died during storms. It is still adrift off the North Sea

coast. What has been described as a very

complex salvage operation is under way. The ship is drifting without

power about 120 miles from Aberdeen. It was 4:30am on Saturday when a

Mayday call was picked up from the vessel. The rescue operation was

launched including three helicopters been very difficult

weather conditions. One crewman has died and his body is still thought

to be on board the vessel which has been significantly damaged. Because

of the nature of the salvage, the operators are unable to say it when

they will get the ship back into port.

There is a warning Scotland's new police force of will have debts

totalling �100 million. The Scottish Conservatives have raised

concerns about the scale of bedecked. The Scottish government

have said they will be given funds to service the debt.

Three Scots are in contention for the BBC Sports personality of the

Year award tonight. Catherine Grainger, Sir Chris Hoy and Andy

Murray and the running. Now it's a A much quieter day of weather

coming up. Some brightness with the best of the sunshine in it eastern

areas towards the Lothians and the Borders. A few showers in western

areas. Temperatures are on the mild side compared with what we have

been used to. Predominantly light It is that time of year again, Iowa

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1947 seconds

and you look back at the big I don't know why race around me. I

am not that special. -- why race around me. -- why are they surround

me. The Scottish Government has taken opinion from eminent legal

authorities in support of its view that an independent Scotland would

continue in membership of the European Union. But we have not

sought specific legal advice. But as the Edinburgh agreement provides

the exact context we now have the basis from which specific legal

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1947 seconds

This sum I was called a rebel force I think the �545 million resource

budget to �546 million is by definition an increase in funding.

I apologise to the chamber for this I am an expert in tourism. I am the

evidence. I am more and expel than the people you would like me to

It is ridiculous! Do not scratch The idea that Scotland is a land

where that the thing is if the is alive. Someone always pays for it

In the west wing will be later than patchier. -- rain. There will be

snow on a high arc around. There are the potential for a few

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1947 seconds

flurries or are more will. Who the The picture it but there was Norman

Robinson. Joining me right now are Detective Chief the incident ended

John Carlin in and professor of economics at Caledonian University.

And Professor Tom divine. Welcome to you all. When you look back

where we have reached, how significant is the Edinburgh

agreement? It has practical implications. More important is the

symbolism. The race is on now. But is in no sense in my view a perfect

solution to the great national decision. It demonstrates a great

democratic deficit. The majority of Scottish people as we speak would

favour a for auction. That has not been offered to them. -- a third

auction. It is not good enough for politicians to say it would be too

difficult to frame that question. They are supposed to be servants of

the people. The people are being denied the possibility of that

three part of vote. My sense is that, particularly the Labour Party,

because the Lib Dems are annihilated in the next election,

my belief is that there will be, either in the last year before the

decision, say, 2013 of 2014, the Labour Party will begin to shape

something like evolution maximum. They will make a solemn contract

with the Scottish people that if the UK Government is elected and

the Labour tradition then they will deliver in the same way that they

will have up evolution. That is the speculation that I shouldn't really

make because the future is not my period as everybody knows. But I

sense they will have to be something like that. A young person

at a debate I wasn't bought and recently asked the basic question,

what is going to happen if there is a no vote. I look back to the

collective depression that the country had in 1979, there has to

be some alternative, especially if the opinion polls keep showing that

it has come to be no vote. Within the agreement says that countries

will work together constructively in the best interests of the people

of Scotland. What is that actually worth when we come into it? Where I

work I engage with young people all the time. There heavily politicised

at the moment. There are engaged in the debate. But you earlier piece

indicates their economic would disenfranchised. They cannot get

jobs. The situation with youth unemployment is desperate and will

get worse so I think if we are looking at giving youngsters the

vote and engaging in a debate we need to give them jobs and the

opportunities. That is not happening. Which policies are

making the most impact for you but in alcohol centre stage? Minimum

pricing as a whole population thing. We say, that is not a layer of

problem. Without all I think there is an opportunity to do something

different around that. But I also think that we're at the stage where

there are lots of good things happening. Every time something

feels we think it is the strategy that has failed. That need a new

plan, a new leader. The truth is that most of the failures up

delivery. It needs to be far more about listen to people and

communities. And then listened to what they need in delivering

services to suit. Absolutely right. There is too much short-termism.

But the other thing, going back to the alcohol aspect, there was a

terrible scourge, much greater than we had today, in 19th century

cities. Even interventions by charities and the Church had

minimal effect. What had the effect was a steep increase in the tax on

alcohol. We saw considerable short- term dramatic fall in consumption.

The government must press hard along these lines. Accepting what

John says, and that the delivery does not need to change day today,

if we look at their beck pictures, a fundamental shift, basically, and

the whole economic structure, the prediction been that we will not go

back to growth, what it needs is a big response, do you think that it

response could or should be? That is a difficult question. It is not

fair! A couple of the issues in New Brighton, perhaps I'm being a bit

flippant at this time of the year, looking at the unemployment figures,

things are changing in terms of structural change. If we look at

part-time employment those jobs are predominantly going to men. That is

very different from before. The piece that you had about Prince

Charles to in the weather forecast, maybe that is his second job.

Because we're finding that men are taking on second jobs. So the part-

time jobs are not the only jobs, their second jobs. That is a

fundamental shift in terms of what is happening in their households.

Where a woman in that household economy? A further economic system

does not recognise why and where men have been two jobs, and we have

that leaves woman, we need a fundamental rethink about the best

What is the effect of women becoming increasingly economic

disenfranchised? We have just been speaking about gender equality. How

do you define what the role of a man is? You're talking about the

notion of equality but they are given it a notion of what is

expected of them and that comes off of television and the Internet and

pornography, what they think life is. They conform to that and may

find life very different -- difficult. We can reduce gang

violence but we cannot get these young people jobs. It has a serious

impact an hour worked for next year is redemption. We had one young

gang who work for six months and did a fantastic job and then at the

end of it they were some pin a job and then found out he had four

previous convictions and would not take him on. These were previous

convictions for when he was 17 and 18. He is effectively sent down for

the rest of his life of up -- his life. He or redemption has a nice

ring to it? Especially at this time of year but I think the outlook is

not good. The forecasters are telling us that this thing is

virtually endless. John is at the sharp end and I am not but what I

fear is that thinking back to the 1930s in particular, the emergence

of young males who have difficulties with their identities

for the reasons he has given. It is the structural under class. Be much

bigger one and a generation will pull even without employment. There

is a brighter side as well. If we have been through this in the 1970s,

there were much bigger difficulties. The Scottish economy has

revolutionised itself over the last 30 years and the employment rate is

slightly higher here than it is in England. It is nothing to be proud

of because there is a lot of under- employment but the situation would

be much worse if the old dinosaurs of the economy were still in place.

The economy is much more balanced now. The reason why this happened,

and it is always blamed on Thatcher, is that it had been waiting to

happen for 30 or 40 years before. The result is that there was horror

in the 1980s and 1990s but the result of that is we now have a

much more balanced economic system than we had before. It is important

that we stuck to think outside of the box because this spring will be

long term. We have 10 seconds, what is coming down the road? More