09/06/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland

undercover journalists how he could help further the interests of the

arithmetical solar Power party. He denies breaking any rules.

Protests this week in Hertfordshire as the global heavyweights of

politics, business and the military meet behind closed doors in a luxury

hotel. The bosses of Google and Yahoo, we will discuss the

conspiracy theories and the reality. And here in Scotland - the Scottish

Conservatives met in Stirling this weekend to draw their battle lines

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2045 seconds

for the union, but what about the the whole thing. I have 3 million

radio listeners every day, which is a low number. I make films and put

them online for free like, and that is because of the establishment...

Ten years ago, I would have said, listen to all this stuff that he

believes that people put the cancer virus into vaccines in order to

create eugenics. I would have said that was mad. The problem is that

conspiracy theories like this are believed... Lesson, I am here to

warn people. Our government is building camps where they

disappeared people now. You have a rest for public safety unlike in

prison. You are the worst person I have ever interviewed. You are

watching the Sunday Politics. Welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.

Coming up on the programme: Sink or swim - as the Tories meet in

Stirling, they're urged to follow their leader.

Will there be any last minute stay of execution for the local courts

recommended for closure? And how a play written for the last

King of Scotland is still raising political questions 500 years on.

A new phrase was coined in Scottish politics this weekend -

self-indulgent chihuahuas. That's how the former Conservative leader

Annabel Goldie described those taking swipes at her successor, Ruth

Davidson. Her critics weren't happy at the way she handled the debate

over more powers for Holyrood. Our political correspondent, Glenn

Campbell, was at the Tory conference in Stirling.

This is where Scotland spot for and secure its independence 700 years

ago. This weekend, the Conservatives have chosen to meet year-end

sterling to renew their opposition to independence and to step up their

fight to keep Scotland in the UK in the 21st-century. But while the

conference speeches have focused on the unity of the country, there are

signs of disunity within the country. Those like Lord Forsyth are

furious that Ruth Davidson has Utah on the powers of the Scottish

parliament and has set up a commission to see how it could be

extended. Others said she lacked the courage to hold a full debate on

devolution here that conference. has shown that weak leadership over

this issue and it would be much more forward looking to embrace the idea

of open debate on this issue and then people with robust views on

either side could make their views known. He was a strong supporter of

the leadership bid by model Fraser who has long supported Hollywood

raising more of the money it spends, which continues to be a source of

Tory divisions. Clear divisions between those like model Fraser who

have argued for fiscal autonomy and those who say that the new powers

are far too much and that has yet to be resolved. Ruth Davidson has

powerful supporters who gave her unscripted endorsements. I back her

every step of the way. I have every confidence that under your

leadership we will go from strength to strength. She is our special one,

though unelected leader. -- our elected. Annabel Goldie is said to

have dismissed the critics as self-indulgent Chihuahua owners. The

party chairman said the annual conference is never a loving.

not been to a Scottish Conservative party conference will there has not

been somebody complaining about something. It is the background

noise we have and I would rather we did not have it but I am very

accustomed to it. We have to focus on issues that matter to real people

and that is not the internal workings of the Conservative party.

Which is why Ruth Davidson spoke about education and caterers and her

confidence surveys. She also addressed new members of hard

devolution commission to devise Tory alternative is independence for

Scotland. With me in the studio is the Leader of the Scottish

Conservative, Ruth Davidson. Thank you for joining us. A lot of concern

about your decision not to the Labour Party members to debate the

constitution and more powers. that overshadow the conference?

There was lots of wide-ranging debate but the thing about debates

at confidence is you have to have a motion to debate on. You do not gain

anything by having Paul or opposites having a bit of a bunfight. We have

a huge range of views across party on the constitution and they have

tried to set up a serious commission were serious people working on it.

We can take soundings from all of our members and, with the package of

proposals. There are huge range of views and you used to have one view

on powers on Hollywood, your line in the sand, and a lot of disappointed

party members thought you would keep that. A lot of party members who

voted for Murdo Fraser, so perhaps a lot of disappointment in the party.

I was not always a full throated supporter of fiscal economy as Murdo

Fraser was. The debate has changed in Scotland than within the Scottish

Parliament. We have seen a majority government break the Parliament and

some of the oversight, so we have to look at some of the

responsibilities, but for me the important thing is that we have a

stable and devolved settlement for Scotland. If we win next year, what

we cannot have is the separatists coming back in five years or ten

years and asking for yet another referendum, because we do not have a

stable sense of government. I want the best proposals for how to meet

the aspirations of the people of Scotland. We have to find a

conservative way to deflect that's all we can have that stable set-up

and do not find ourselves in the set-up we have had again and again,

because that does not address the very important things for the people

of Scotland like education, that we want to talk about. Proposing more

powers for Scotland in the way you have done, your main backer, Lord

Forsyth, he was not even at the conference. Are you still on

speaking terms or have you apologised? I am still on speaking

terms, of course I am, but in terms of the phrasing, I have not proposed

new powers and have not put forward any limits or guidance. This is for

Lord Strathclyde and he will take people from the worlds of politics

and who are constitutional experts, and they will go off and do their

work. They will not be set goals by me. This is about serious people

doing work and coming up with proposals that we can take and adopt

as Conservatives. I am not saying that you are reading it but you seem

to give a definite example of what you would like. You got the biggest

cheer when you said you wanted to use those powers to lower tax.

tax-raising powers are coming already in 2016. The Parliament was

set up in 1989 with responsibility for around 10% of taxes but it has

responsibility for spending about 70%. The gap is wider than most

federal systems around the world, such as Germany or Canada. I am sure

that is in nearly other Lord Strathclyde will look at. The

changes in 2016 will bring back then but we have to look at the

mechanisms created and how we want to use them. I want to lower taxes

and have been saying that for more than a year now. Do we think the

powers that are coming are the correct balance of powers, the ones

that will be enacted in 2016, so that is one area I am sure we will

look at. I am not telling him what to do though. What about other

powers that could be devolved such as welfare benefits and cold weather

payments? I am not trying his hand is not pointing him in the direction

of results I want to see. This is about helping people who have real

experience and expertise in areas of politics and constitutional affairs,

so that we can find a be involved settlement that is stable. Surely

you will help to divide the commission and where they are going?

They have to get back to me before the referendum so they have a

timetable but I am letting them get on with their work and I look

forward to the report when it comes. You took such a pro-tax avoiding

stands, throwing the dead meat out to the traditional Tory supporters.

Were you saying they had to come with you and you had to modernise

the party? You were very firm with the party members. This is something

we introduced last year, our aspiration to bring taxation down by

1p in the pound. We have referred to it several times. It is no

Conservative party policy that we will work towards bringing forward

the reduction in taxation in the 2016 manifesto. In terms of the

party change, I have changed a lot. I have changed the way in which we

run and we are structured. Change can be painful and that can be

difficult but the reason I have made these changes is to make us a much

better fighting machine so we are able to take forward the policy

provisions. Yes, I was telling people that I understand the

concerns but look at election results. Goodness knows we need to

have some changes to make ourselves a feather force. On the policy of

school vouchers, it sounded pretty radical. Is this not going to

destroy the education system? the things I referred to is where

our children are being failed. Where one third are weak or

unsatisfactory, you have two address the problem. We think choice is the

best way to address that and we said we wanted to give schools the

opportunity to opt out of local authority control. We wanted other

establishments to be able to set up through philanthropists or other

organisations so there would be diversity. The logical extension is

to allow parents to move between these different models. Having the

money following the Child is a system that works. If you think of

the system in Denmark, they have a voucher system as do the Netherlands

and Sweden. It is not new but it is something that I think is the next

logical extension, to a low parents to choose the model that best suits

their child. Demonstators gathered outside Holyrood this week demanding

a reprieve for the ten Sheriff Courts ear-marked for closure. MSPs

on the Justice committee will vote on the issue on Tuesday. The move is

designed to save millions of pounds. Critics say it brings down the gavel

on 500 years of local justice. Our home affairs correspondent Reevel

Alderson has more. This Sheriff Court to cheer its last case in

November if the proposal is going to go ahead. It is one of ten new

foreclosure. The Courts service says there is very little business in

Kirkcudbright. In 2012 there were just seven trials were evidence was

heard. 22 summary trials and 127 civil cases. When others close it

good bring about travel problems for many of the accused. A lot of

witnesses and accused in courts need to use public transport so they will

be the most affected by this. these heard budget cuts and capital

spending going down were driving these reforms. Scotland's most

senior judge told the Justice committee there was more to than

that. It is a good case for having centres of specialisation and

excellence and for making the most efficient use of resources that you

can. The government insists closures could actually improve the

administration of justice in Scotland. Many of Scotland's courts

are not fit for justice in the 21st century, this is a better use of the

shrinking budget to concentrate funds on a smaller number of

well-equipped courts. In all, ten Sheriff Courts are scheduled to be

closed with those transferred to another court in the area. Cases

from Arbroath, as an example, we'll go to for further. Haddington's

business in East Lothian will be sent to Edinburgh Sheriff Court

while Dumfries will always with cases heard in Dumfries. The SNP

majority in the Justice committee could see these proposals going

through. Kenny McAskill is away this weekend saw to discuss this we have

Lewis McDonald in our Aberdeen studio and in Edinburgh the SNP's

Christine DeLeon. First to lose my Donald in Aberdeen. -- Graham. We

need to save money and the example is that business could be used to

where there is not enough business going on. We now that Aberdeen

Sheriff Court is missing its target of dealing with trials in 16 weeks

by a hall seven-week. Almost 50% short of what it should be achieving

because it has too much business going on and it cannot deal with

what it has. The idea that we close and neighbouring court and mood that

business to Aberdeen clearly will have an effect. This is a complete

misconception on which these proposals are based. It has been

said that Aberdeen could almost do with the work away. Is this

something you are choosing to focus on because you can attack the women

next to you on this? She said last week she had not made up her mind so

I will try on Tuesday to persuade her. I think the situation of

Aberdeen and Stonehaven could be repeated up and down the country.

Closing date will and using Inverness and double peak times

there. The same effect is what will improve the efficiency of the courts

and what will make it worse? We think many of these proposals will

simply make things worse. You are in a difficult position here, on

Tuesday you were convened, you can speak freely now, what is your

edition? -- what is your position? think it would be wrong to close ten

Sheriff Courts when this is the position that I should just defend

my own particular area. I will make my decision based on the evidence

that comes before the committee. Unfortunately Lewis McDonald left

before the senior judge in Scotland gave his evidence. We questioned him

thoroughly on whether this would be a detriment to access to justice and

he said that was not the case, it is a way forward. We must make these

decisions based on the evidence and the debate next week, that is

exactly what I will do. As a good constituency MSP I take it you have

in lobbying Kenny McAskill? I wanted to make sure that people did not

have its business going to Edinburgh, I have campaigned for

Abdallah Justice Centre and I think that should take place, I hope it

will. -- I Dalla justice centre. -- Gala. They must weigh the evidence

and I fully understand the position, the Scottish Court service and the

judge in Scotland who is at the top of the tree, his evidence must be

looked at when people decide to to make their vote. The SNP have a

majority in the committee. We have yet to hear from SNP members what

they will do. We know that when the Labour Party put down a debate for

this last month there was a split. There is a lot still to leave for. I

was in the committee invite when the judge gave his evidence and he said

these changes were driven by a desire to save costs. You did not

stay to question him. I did, one of my colleagues may have left when you

thought I did. It has instead that Haddington Sheriff Court is so keen

to be kept open that there will be alternative ways to pay for the

running cost. On that point, Christine? I am very sympathetic but

we have to look at the fight, there was a comment made in the clip about

access to justice, we are going to be using more videoconferencing so

the people of Stonehaven can give their evidence through video link to

Aberdeen Sheriff Court. I apologise, Lewis, I actually think you did stay

and it was your colleague who left. People are attached to courts, is

that true? It is not like your local library or health centre, able

really see the inside of the court. People perhaps merely wished to see

the inside of the court but people do value the access of the community

to justice. I think everyone values the fact that justices to be done in

the leases where the crimes have been committed. I think there is a

significant year for local communities. Will there be a

reprieve? I do not know, there is a lot still to be said, I hope people

will base their evidence -- the decisions on the evidence. That is

all you can do when you are on a committee. Coming up after the

news, what relevance does the 16th century we have on a country in a

countdown to an independence referendum? We will find out coming

up after the news from London. You are watching Sunday politics

Scotland from the BBC. Now we will cross to Tim Wilcox and after that

Reporting Scotland W Stewart. -- to clarify how much people know

about evidence gathered by an American spy firm via the biggest

Internet companies. It has been said people should not worry about being

spied on. I authorise operations most days of the week by this

organisation so I know how they work. The idea that they are sitting

working out how to circumnavigate UK law is fanciful and nonsense. I

think I can give the poor that assurance. -- give people that

assurance. Tim you'll was secretly filmed by Sunday Times investigators

posing as staff from a green energy company looking to hire him. He said

he posed as someone getting evidence for the committee. An MP and

committee chairman across the table from undercover reporters, another

set of lobbying allegations. Were you able to ask him questions

afterwards? I told him in advance what to say. He denies the claims

and was due to go on television to talk about this until he changed his

mind. Earlier this morning Tim you'll agreed to do a live interview

with us but just in the last hour he ruled out citing node reasons. David

Cameron once famously said lobbying with ED next big scandal and has

promised a new law to set up a registry of lobbyists for the end of

July. The problem for him is well this end the undercover reporters

with secret cameras? Nelson Mandela has been receiving treatment for a

long condition. He remains stable. Let's go to our reporter in

Pretoria, what is the latest on his condition? We are waiting for the

health up eight from the Edison -- presidency here. Nelson Mandela's

doctors have not announced any major changes since yesterday. There are

reports that some of his close relatives have been into hospital

here to see him. There is no sense of a bedside vigil. Many South

Africans are urging him to fight on what also you get the sense that

many people are very aware that he is old and frail. The rad

increasingly discussions about the need for nature to take its course

and for Nelson Mandela to be allowed to rest and enjoy his last days or

is or however long it is in Nice. -- in peace. That is all from me for

now. An investigation is underway into the cost of a fire at

construction site of Glasgow Hydro into the site at the River Clyde.

The operators of the �125 million venue said it was too early to

assess the impact of the fire. Yesterday afternoon flames were seen

coming from the edge of the domed roof of the building. Firefighters

were called to the scene. Hospital staffing levels are to be

boosted by the addition of more than a dozen new consultants across

Scotland. 14 full-time posts and four part-time jobs are being

created with a �3 million fund set up by the Scottish Government. The

positions will run for the next three years, divided amongst all

health boards except Shetland, Orkney and the Western Isles.

Now for the forecast with Judith and we should see some breaks in

with our next bulletin at 6:10pm this evening. I'll hand you back now

to Andrew. A rarely performed 16th century

morality tale about good governance may not seem relevant to 21st

century audiences. But the team behind a new production of The

Satire of the Three Estates beg to differ.

There's much than satire to Sir David Lyndsay's famous play, .

is a corrupt elite and when they call up Parliament, they ask the

common man in and they come in and say, this is what happens to us in

the Parliament not only lessons but enacts laws and makes changes in

order that the pool of people are no longer tour. It is a revolutionary

play. It is also really confirmed. This famous revival in 1948 was the

first in centuries. The scale of the show with its huge cast and six hour

running time our old barriers. The player returns to win it first began

as a piece of entertainment for James Fett. -- James V. It is the

only surviving play from Renaissance Scotland. There is one from much

later but imagine if we do not have any Shakespeare or anything else.

This does for Scotland what Shakespeare and all the rest do for

Britain. Even for those who have been in previous productions, this

is an important production at an important moment. It is about a BB

King who has to be taught how to govern as a theatre and political

king. The places get to him first. -- vices. With the referendum coming

up on independence, he could not detect a better time. The questions

it asks about government and identity remain as relevant today

almost 500 years on. So who has been making the news in

politics? Let's take a look at that now.

With me in the studio to discuss the week that was and what's in store

next week, author and commentator, David Torrance and the blogger

Stephen Gethins. Let's pick up on our interview with

Ruth Davidson. She is making the newspapers today, rather

eye-catching, down but not out. You were that conference this weekend,

what was the atmosphere like? pretty downbeat. The attendance was

small. The venue seems to get smaller every year and there was an

overwhelming sense of a party going through the motions. Even the Prime

Minister's appearance was perfunctory. Her speech, even though

there was good stuff in it, the crucial section explaining to the

party about why she has gone down the path of more powers was met with

silence. You are obviously watching this from a slightly different

perspective. What did you make of how the Scottish Conservatives that

this? The Tories seems to be all over the place because they have a

membership who do not want to move and a party that is very unpopular.

I find it remarkable that the big attraction was Alistair Darling, who

thinks their economic policies are mad. The three unionist parties are:

Listening around for other powers and it is interesting how far they

have gone down that road? Is a tablet? They have given a very clear

is the year on where we are going with the independence referendum.

The other parties are struggling by saying that the status quo was not

very good but they are not seeing what the alternative is. They seem

to be hiding behind the commission but we have had lots of commissions.

We are never quite sure what is going to come up. Stephen mention

the appearance of Alistair Darling. Did you stay for that? It was the

highlight of the conference. The SNP had been relentlessly press

releasing us saying he would be the darling of the conference and was

through! It says a lot that the highlight was a former Labour

Chancellor but he did a good pitch launching forces together as a

subset of the better together campaign. He wants to send a signal

that he does not really like Tories even if he was speaking at the

conference. There were a lot of banks from the SNP but they are

saying that it is cross-party. -- digs. This politician said the Tory

economic policy was absolutely mad but he wants them to keep deciding

on the policy for Scotland! It is still a bit rich. I have a clear

memory of the Scottish Parliament when the SNP worked closely with the

Scottish Conservatives, who helped them to pass for budgets, so the

idea it is only Labour and the Lib Dems who are in cahoots is

ridiculous. The public like to see politicians working together. There

was a minority government and I was a special adviser, and you work

across parties. Mainly with the Tories. One final thought, it is an

anniversary this year. The 1980s the election was one of the great

turning points in UK politics. -- 1983. That was when Labour knew they

had to change. Talking to Scottish Tories, they had 21 MPs and about

29% of the vote in Scotland but compare that to know. David makes up

the point. The last election when the Tories did any good in Scotland.

It is notable for that fact. Anyone in the recent intake we might back

years? In Westminster? There are a lot of great figures such as Greg

the climate who is currently pensions spokesman. Who is currently

pensions spokesman. There are a few that are prominent but I am not sure