23/06/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland

Sunday interview. And a group of 40 right wingers are hankering for a

Margaret Thatcher of equality. They also want to bring back hanging. And

here in Scotland: As George prepares to wield the axe again, is the UK

really moving from rescue to recovery and what effect will the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1872 seconds

my parents did think it was a home for life. Luckily they were always

in work and did not rely on benefits. Nobody knows when they

take a council house that they will at some stage depend on the benefit

system. Using the benefit system to socially engineered the housing

stock is the wrong way round. What we need to do is build more houses.

The anther is to build more houses. Hopefully this government will get

the message. If you did not do attend the last 15 years why would

you do it next time? I am pushing the government to do that. It is

also about building the right houses that we need. People's expectations

have gone up, people want to bedrooms, two bathrooms that sort of

thing. When someone falls out of work or has health problems that

means they cannot work the might then become dependent on housing

benefit and using housing benefit to manipulate this is not the right way

forward. What you do is simply punish the people for the economic

situation the add-in. You are just the people? With respect, my

grandparents have gone from having four children and their hose to

living alone, the housing need has changed and why shouldn't they be

encouraged to liberate that house for a family to have the same

privilege they did? I was encouraged by what you said about perhaps being

more positive. Really we should be working at that. Where local

authorities have not, we need to look at the housing benefit system

to incentivise. What about someone's grandparents, what

incentive is there for them when they are family have gone to move to

a smaller place? For the pensioner couple the incentive is a nice house

in a nice area that is cheaper to heat and easier to keep but

sometimes that does need to be sold to people. You housing benefit

changes do not affect that pensioner couple, they are still stuck in the

four-bedroom house and it is less likelihood of them being moved

simply because the one-bedroom flats they might have moved into our being

taken up by the people who are of working age. What about people who

have lived in DC media dear Paul lives and later in life, in the

mid-60s and 70s you want them to move? Their whole network is there.

If you have worked in the same area for 40 years that is your home and

you have root beer. If the taxpayer is going to continue to pay the bill

for your rent you have no incentive which is why we have to use carrots

as well as state. And is it your feeling that Labour will reverse

this policy if they win this election? I would certainly hope

they would look at the policy again. The problem as some people will have

moved, some will have only years, I cannot imagine a future government

writing off all sorts of years it will depend where we are in a few

years time. You are watching the Sunday politics. Hello and welcome

to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the programme: The Chancellor

is sketching out his spending plans as we speak, what will the impact on

Scotland be and is the economy really healing? A show of strength

from the SNP in Aberdeen Donside, what was the message from voters in

the Granite city? The main negotiator in the spending round has

been the Lib Dem's Alexander. -- Danny Alexander. The Chief Secretary

to the Treasury has been cajoling ministers to offer up departmental

savings for 2015, partly because the plan to cut the deficit is taking

longer than expected. You have my commitment that we will not let up.

I will fit out the spending plans and with tough negotiating by the

Chief Secretary those plans are almost complete. Are they not? Did

our more difficult decisions. There have to be. When the country is

living way beyond its means. So George or Jeffrey will tell MPs the

detail on Wednesday. Whatever the outcome, there will be implications

for the Scottish Government's spending plans for the period

following next year's independence referendum. Our Westminster

correspondent Tim Reid reports. It is the same for almost anyone trying

to earn a living nowadays. From those busking outside the window of

the Chancellor to those in every form of government. The austerity

theme, the tight rein on public spending and the coalition cuts,

much criticised, will have many more years to run. It will have an impact

on what Scotland gets. Money will be allocated to the English NHS and

English schools and they can spend that as they wish, they will also

get cuts in public services and then they will have to meet the growing

decisions about how they want to eat cuts across different services. In

Scotland in the last spending round the cuts were similar in Scotland.

Britain will go in an historic new direction of hope and unity and

common purpose. It is not quite how the coalition partners had hoped

when the promised to wipe out the deficit by 2015. This is not just

about finding savings but about making the right choices for the

future of this country. We are on track to do that. Every department

here in Whitehall has been negotiating its budget in recent

weeks. Some have in doing it find close borders like the Treasury but

the Scotland office have been offering up to 70% cuts and then

there is the MOD. The Prime Minister has said it will be no more manpower

cuts there at least. We were promised a bigger army, navy and air

force but the fact is they have cut of the forces. We do not know what

will happen in the future of the Armed Forces we will just have to

wait and see what is announced. At the moment it is significant

scepticism over the government and its promises. The public no longer

believe. It is up to the Scottish government how to spend it back �1

billion government budget but it could be hundreds of millions lost

from the coffers. Infrastructure projects to boost the economy still

do not stop concerns about the next round of cuts. It could be a

detrimental impact on Scotland while removing the room to manoeuvre. It

could influence unemployment figures throughout the UK. The Chancellor is

also calculating that they will pile political pressure on Labour ahead

of the next election to see whether they will match these cuts or not.

In Scotland, before then, there is the small matter of an independence

referendum. Could the prospect of more public spending cuts prepaid --

persuade Scotland to pack its banks will be hopes of an economic revival

help to keep Britain as one? Now we have assembled our own brains trust

to analyse this now. Joining me now from our Edinburgh studio is

Professor of Management at Queen Margaret University, Richard Kerley,

and in the studio, the economist Jo Armstrong, Honorary Professor at the

Adam Smith Business School at Glasgow University and also

Professor of Economics at Stirling University, David Bell. Now we hear

epic row is going on with Vince cable at the moment but I believe

defence was agreed last night? believe most departments have

reached agreements. The Treasury has a target to meet. The government,

Prime Minister and Chancellor are behind that target. They may be

politics but essentially the Treasury will get its way in the

end. What is the Chancellor hoping to do with growth? There are some

reports in the papers today about a long-term infrastructure plan.

Clearly he has defined different routes to make sure the current

growth we are seeing is sustained and takes off. He is looking to use

infrastructure as one means of doing that, hopefully not just through

dead boring but also encouraging the private sector to invest. There has

been criticism that he has not done enough to boost growth. He has

talked of measures to finance of public money but the devil is in the

detail and they have not taken off. He has two find a way quickly and

one obvious way to boost investment with the around housing. He could do

quite a lot through housing. Talking about the devil being in the detail,

when it comes to Scotland, it can be tricky to work out the

consequential, Mr Swinney will have his work cut out on Wednesday, will

he not? The big picture emerges on the day but the fine detail of that

only runs out over a period of time. The point was well made in Europe

bought. It is a matter for John Swinney and the Scottish government

today ordered the figure they get in a way they think is appropriate.

They are going to have a bigger level of production. The top end is

going to be a deduction but then it is a matter for the Scottish

government on how that applies that and redirects resources. I worry

that the Chancellor is still fiddling around with the combination

of immediate measures such as the housing project he introduced a

while ago. That only adds to house price inflation. We are not making

progress on the big infrastructure projects that have promised. As the

money heads north to Edinburgh isn't always obvious way that is going?

You spoke about student support. Were there hidden there or like

that? It is difficult to track from one year to the next exactly how any

government is shifting money around but the outcome of the Barnett

consequential is is open to the Scottish government to manipulate in

whatever way it chooses. It sometimes produces some unexpected

results in terms of the impact on particular budgets. Education here

benefited a couple of years ago from some changes that were made to the

system in England in particular, relating to the introduction of

student fees for higher education. The NHS and overseas development

have impacts here in Scotland but when it comes to protecting these

budgets is there a sense that if you was budgets perhaps the economy

would benefit the cause you could tackle inefficiencies? It is

difficult to understand in a world where everybody is having to take

cuts, inhale fund schools down south, that people are being ring

fenced. No demand is growing in health so the budget is effective

and demand is rising but if you're not seeing cash cuts you start to

question whether you can justify that. By capping health you are

effectively cutting other budgets between five and 10%. Debt is still

rising. There was not good news on Friday. Are we seeing these elusive

clean sheet -- green shoots of the economy healing and getting into

recovery? In 2004 the UK had one of the lowest debt free shows in the

developing -- developed world. It is now hitting 80% of GDP. Almost all

the political parties accept something has to be done about that

because coming down the track are big changes in the democracy of the

UK and that will inevitably put further upward pressure on debt

going forward. I think it is some consensus. The Labour Party seem to

be coming along with the notion that borrowing limits will have to be

adhered to over the future. This goes beyond the next election and

well into possibly the next decade that government spending is a sheer

of the overall pot in the economy. That will be expected to be

declining. On a steady tea, the teeming parties almost agree. -- on

posterity the three main parties almost agree -- posterity. --

austerity. I am not sure there is a night peak of consensus. -- an

outbreak of consensus. The Argent is how the huge government budget is

deployed ostensibly. Universally headlines on the radio this morning

was about whether the Chancellor is falling into the classic first of

fiddling around the edges and trying to lock pleasant surprises out of a

complex and generally depressing situation. They claim he is planning

to redirect money from banks to helping injured service people, that

seems to me the worst kind of election needing rather than a

considered view of how we try to get together and the anaemic growth we

are experiencing. We do not actually know why, at least in employment

terms, things have seemed to be better in Scotland and else where in

the United Kingdom. It is very hard to determine whether it is the

actions of the Scottish government, the UK government or just

circumstantial in the broader economy. If you look at the spending

cuts, we still have more coming. It is not like he has a lot of

manoeuvre around electioneering. If he is trying to keep the markets

happy, if they thinks we are keeping debt interest level is low, he has

got to find good news. At the moment the news is all those things I have

described. Thank you for joining me. It wasn't an upset in the campaign

did not set the heather alight. The Aberdeen Donside by-election came

and went and now the SNP when is now safely in his seat. Labour also

blame progress. We have been looking at the swings and roundabouts in

Aberdeen. It was the by-election that sent

driver sent -- round in circles. This notorious roundabout at times

felt like all everyone was talking about. It did not send the voters

and spend. Only 39% turned out to vote. Mark McDonald, subnational --

Scottish National Party. Those who dared, voted for the SNP's

candidate. It was a clear victory in what was her historical Labour seat.

Brian Adam had a majority in the seat. He worked as MSP for 25 years.

They have placed their trust in me. I will be a strong local champion

for Aberdeen Donside. All smiles after the results were given time to

sink in. The reality is the Nationalists lost vote but it is

still seen as a good vote. The SNP is halfway through a second term in

government. The SNP not only won this by-election but we did some

pretty comfortably. The SNP do retain a clear majority but that is

down almost five thousand on 2011. The Conservatives saw a slight

reduction. While the Liberal Democrats made again. That push them

up from fourth to third. There is still plenty of opportunity

for navel-gazing and this was a chance for the parties to test the

temperature on their doorstep. Strangely all parties were hearing

noises in their favour. Back in the headquarters those noises could help

in years to come. It helps towards the 2016 election. We would take out

over 25 thousand MSP 's from the SNP. -- MS plays. -- MSPs. We think

the momentum is in our direction. We have got past some of our

difficulties in recent years. I think together with delivery at

Westminster, cutting taxes, increasing tensions, as well as our

excellent record that our local parliamentarians have, we think we

can build on this and get good results. Other past six weeks as has

been a battlefield. The campaign has been fought hard in the candidates

have been talking tough. Other parties no blood has been shed, no

damage done. -- for their parties. Apart from the swing to Labour,

nothing here has changed. In the great volume of Scottish political

history, you will have to look hard in the index in the back for

Aberdeen Donside. Joining me from our Aberdeen studio

is the winner of the by-election, Mark McDonald. Congratulations first

of all. Thank you very much. I met sure the other Friday when you were

out campaigning. I asked a few were complacent. I don't think you were

because the SNP through a lot at this, but yet it was a lot closer

than many expected, as we have been seeing. The swing to Labour would

have taken out some SNP cabinet members. As you know swings in

by-elections do not materialise in general elections. What you have in

by-elections is a concerted five-week, six-week campaign. It is

focused on issues in the constituency. The other parties

through everything, including the kitchen sink at the SNP during this

campaign. They ran a relentlessly negative campaign. We are delighted

we held the seat and we held at comfortably, a good four figure

majority. Other governments would have to -- would kill to have a

majority like that after two years in power. You are a well-known

face, you have been known as a councillor. Do you think the

majority should have been slimmed down as much? I said to you that I

was not going to make any predictions for the outcome of the

by-election. Our objective at the beginning was to hold the seat. We

have achieved that objective. I was first elected as a councillor in

2007, so I have been around in the political scene in Aberdeen for six

years. It took Bryan Adams at least a quarter of a century to build up

the reputation he did. This is a seat that the Labour Party in the

past used to expect. We will continue to work hard for the people

of Donside following in that tradition. Thursday had the need

18th of September 2014, how would it have looked for the independence

movement? I have not very good? I do not think it will hinge on the local

schools and roundabouts. It is difficult to extrapolate this

campaign into the independence campaign. We released the results of

our super survey of Donside residents. It is showing that

everything is still to play for. 29% opposed and 30% of people said that

at present they are undecided. We know that there were undecided what

to hear the arguments, they want to be convinced in order to place their

vote. It is up to us to put out a positive position and make sure that

they vote yes in the referendum. Labour pointed out that your

literature only made one reference to render pendent Scotland. -- to an

independent Scotland. It was on a leaflet that highlighted Denis

Healey's undervaluing of oil to Scotland. It was in our campaign

newspaper. It was on a survey card that went to every single voter in

the Donside constituency and it was part of cans and saying script on

the door said. -- canvassing script. Looking at your companions in the

yes campaign, there was no SSP standing in the by-election. UKIP

scored about three times as many votes as the Greens. Is the yes

campaign really just the SNP? Andrew. The yes campaign, obviously

the SNP are major stakeholder in the campaign. It is wider than the SNP.

It includes people from all political parties and none. What we

were finding on the doorstep was there was a large section of the

Labour Party support who are for independence and wishing to vote

yes. Perhaps it is for the Labour Party to start looking at what it

supporters telling them and maybe consider its position in relation to

the independence referendum. Particularly in light of the

revelations today, in 2015 people will be resented with posterity from

all parties as their options. a pretty gruelling campaign.

Yesterday in the press and journals, Alex Salmond made a visit to a

primary school and he did not have permission to be there. What

happened with that visit? Did Mr Salmond have permission to be at the

school? Mr Salman was invited to come into the school well we were

visiting. -- Mr Salman. Alex Salmond. There is the story of the

school campaigners who were asked to leave. They were asking people

leaving the station to the sign at campaign against closing the school.

I think there are question marks about those campaigners. We have to

leave it there. Thank you. We are heading to the news now and after

that we have are looked at the The Good afternoon. The US whistle

blower, Edward Snowden, who has revealed details of secret US and

British surveillance programmes, has fled Hong Kong from where the US

authorities were seeking to extradite him. He is on a flight

bound for Moscow - where he's due to arrive shortly. From Hong Kong, John

Sudworth reports. The hunt for Edward Snowden, the man

America wants to bring, has taken a surprise in turn. According to one

newspaper citing credible sources, he is on board a flight to Moscow. A

statement from the Hong Kong government confirms that Mr Snowden

has indeed left the territory, although it does not say where he

has gone. It leaves a US legal blunder did not meet the legal

requirements. His departure comes shortly after further revelations

exposing the extent of Britain's high-tech spying capabilities. He

also revealed details about US efforts to Hakkinen -- hacked into

Hong Kong's communications. Hong Kong may have taken the easy way

out. It was facing a lengthy extradition battle and intends

diplomatic pressure from the US and perhaps China to. It call -- report

says that Mr Snowden is put on a flight from Moscow to Cuba on

Monday. As he slips away from Hong Kong, America may find that their IT

specialists ends up some are much further from its reach.

The Chancellor, George Osborne says he has reached agreement with the

Defence Secretary on MOD spending for the year 2015 to 2016. Speaking

ahead of his spending review this week, he said the civilian numbers

would be reduced but there would be no cut in armed forces personnel.

They will not be a reduction in own military capability, we will not

reduce the number of sailors, soldiers and a man. We will spend

more money on cyber, which is the new frontier in defence.

Gunmen have killed ten people, including nine foreign tourists,

after storming a hotel in far northern Pakistan. Officials say

five are from Ukraine, one from Lithuania and three from China. A

tour guide of Pakistani or Nepalese origin was also killed. The assault

happened at the remote base camp of the world's ninth highest mountain.

Two separate militant group said they have taken -- committed the

student who has been missing since the beginning of the month are

stepping up their appeal for information. Yulia Solodyankina, was

last seen at the Wee Red Bar in Edinburgh. Today friends in a drum

and dance group will busk at The Mound to raise awareness of her

disappearance, and her face is to appear on coffee cups around the

city. The Scottish government is hoping to

establish better trade links with China. The External Affairs Minister

Humza Yousaf is visiting the country in a bid to encourage more Chinese

investment in Scottish industry and infrastructure. A direct air link

and more Mandarin and Cantonese language lessons are among the

suggestions which could strengthen cultural ties.

Two hundred of the UK's top cyclists are in Glasgow today for the biggest

road cycling event of the year. Mark Cavendish and Laura Trott will be

among those competing in the The British Cycling National Road Race

Championships. More than 20,000 people are expected to line the

route, which runs through the city centre, and starts and finishes at

Glasgow Green. Let's now have a look everyone. Gusty northerly winds will

make for a wet afternoon. Heavy rain for the Borders and Central and

South West Scotland, brighter but with the odd heavy shower. Our next

update is that ten to seven. I will now hand you back to Andrew.

We will be discussing the big political events coming up. Let's

take a look back at the week in 60 Proposals to end the centuries-old

requirement for corroboration in court cases were brought forward by

the Scottish government. The plans would also increase the number of

jurors required for a majority guilty verdict. A report by the

Parliamentary commission on banking standards said reckless bosses

should be jailed and there should be an overhaul of the repeat to stop

them being rewarded for failure. The administrators at heart began the

painful is that -- job of starting the painful task of telling is that

whether they have a job or not. had to make many admin staff

part-time. It is likely that for players will also be made redundant.

Ruth Davidson was left feeling half her age when she was knocked back

trying to buy the Scotland office Minister of beer at the Bruce

Springsteen concert. The 34-year-old said being ID at Hamdan had made her

laugh. What will be making the headlines in politics this week.

guests today are the blogger Kate Higgins and Political Editor of the

Daily Record, David Clegg. Vince cable challenges George Osborne

overgrowth. I think this is a slightly smoother process.

Everything has been almost tied up now. All tied up but bizarrely a

kind of outbreak of consensus. I think it all this morning was

clarifying about spending, he would road to spend on capital spending

but the e-mail parties all sticking to the austerity plans? I am glad

Vince cable is making the case. It has two the hood to bed in advance

of the 2015 election. If we know that all the major parties are

seeing cuts, cuts and more cuts until we get this debt down then

there is no point in voting. labour wise to follow that strategy

do you think? It has consequences for the referendum debate here.

Effective years there is no difference in the offering with in

the Westminster system and the UK then it is the opportunity for the

SNP to seize on. It is a very clear dividing line. The positive is that

people have an alternative but the negative is people seeing if that is

happening in Westminster why is it not happening here? A lot of people

are calling for clarity and certainty. They want to know what

independence offers. The certainty we have got here is that we know

what will happen when we bought now, austerity and cuts. That is bad news

for people at home. The same-sex marriage Bill have produced a

video. We can have a look at that bill has been hit by some delays but

it looks like it is going forward. Aid is still going to be a lot of

noise about this but the battle is won. As you can see from that

video. Even Alex Salmond is holding it up. There will be a very vocal

campaign against it but it has God supporting the Scottish parliament

and it will go through. About 11 MSB is still going to court against. --

vote against. It is all over bar the shouting. The interesting thing is

whether or not the Scottish government will offer a free vote.

It is not a conscience vote, they do have policy there. The latter number

of ministers who are bubbly on the opposing side and what will be quite

interesting in that the vote is there are probably more SNP MSP is

who will vote against equal marriage due to there own faith or conscience

leafs. That is the first time we have had that kind of conscience

split coming across the SNP government. There has been a lot of

cynicism and scepticism about leaving this until after the

referendum. I think Will there be a marriage before the referendum? That

is difficult to say. They are seeing firmly know that this is going to

happen but whether that happens or not Israeli academic. We had

President Bill Clinton in Scotland this week, this is what he had to

say. You will come about this rate regardless of whether you go about

it in the right way. It is very important that there be an honest

effort to list the consequences of this. That was the former president

of the United States seeing we need to outline the arguments.

Absolutely. When we have this coming to Scotland to give sage advice why

was that not televised? I know he was eating to business people but he

lives up former president coming to Scotland with words of advice. I do

not agree that it was a study in blandness. I think this is eminently

sensible. Things have got very polarised very quickly and he was

spot on. We need to talk to each other and reserve game here if we

want to have top in Scotland with the Scottish people. And William

Hague was up this week as well? I was at the speech and it was

largely just a same things I have heard from the Prime Minister. The

aspect that the Sunday Times is picking up on is countries like

Spain with similar movements. I think there is some truth. Now let

me bring you some breaking news, some sad news, Ruth Evenson has paid

tribute to Lord Carmyle Eve who has died suddenly. He was an MP who

represented East Angus and South Angus and was made a life here in

1989. Very sad news just coming in. I had not heard that. I used to work

for the Dundee Cuneo newspaper which is quite strong and I know that he

was very popular and well liked up in Angus. It is a sad day for a lot

of people. Very sad news, he was a strong character. Yes, we are losing

quite a number of people who have been around for a long time. It is

sad news and condolences to his family. Also the conservative