Browse content similar to 06/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. An in-out EU referendum | :00:34. | :00:41. | |
before the general election? We talk to the Tory rebel demanding | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
one next year. That's our top story. As Government ministers prepare to | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
decide how the press should be regulated, what will be the impact | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
of this week's row between the Daily Mail and Ed Miliband? | :00:53. | :01:03. | |
You take this and you have kept out the colour of people's faces. You | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
are a disgrace! And we'll hear from the MEP who ruined UKIP's | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
conference. And coming up on Sunday Politics | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
Scotland: The meter's running on the cost of living. What can the | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
politicians do to help people? And who's to blame? | :01:17. | :01:58. | |
He will try to force a vote in the Commons to hold the poll next | :01:58. | :02:05. | |
October. Home Secretary Theresa May was asked about his plans on the BBC | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
earlier this morning. I think he has got it wrong, I think what we need | :02:10. | :02:18. | |
to do is to negotiate the settlement with the European Union and then put | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
that to the people me to decide whether to be in or out. Is this a | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
flea bite or a real threat? I think what is crucial is that we have, at | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
the next election, a Conservative Party that will be offering people | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
that renegotiation, a new settlement with Europe, looking to the future | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
and putting that to the British people in and in or out referendum. | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
And what the amendment possibly could do, as James Wharton, who was | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
putting the Referendum Bill through Parliament has said, is it could | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie joins us now from Millbank studio. | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
Good morning. If the referendum would be held next October, it would | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
have to be an in-out question based the status quo? There wouldn't be | :03:05. | :03:12. | |
time for a full renegotiation. I disagree. By having a referendum in | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
2014, it gives us 12 months to renegotiate, but it kick-started | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
negotiations, because the European Union, if they wish us to remain | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
members, would need to accommodate and make changes so that they would | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
persuade the British public to stay, if that is what they want. It | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
think, basically, 80% of people want a referendum. More than 50% what a | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
referendum this side of the election. British businesses need | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
ever, but I have struggled with my conscience over this one. I do not | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
want to cause trouble, but it is essential that Parliament and MPs | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
have the opportunity to search their souls and give people a referendum | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
this side of the election. That would also bring certainty and | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
clarity for the future, and like I said, it strengthens the Prime | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
Minister's hand if it is successful. You right in the Mail on Sunday that | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
the people are not convinced there even will be a referendum, so they | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
wrote for that piece. What I am saying is a very calm analysis... | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
You are saying that the British people are not convinced. Look, | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
there are too many uncertainties here - they may not be convinced the | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
Conservatives will win the election, I hope we will, they may not be | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
convinced the renegotiation will be good enough, that there will be a | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
referendum. Do you trust David Cameron to deliver a referendum? | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
That is why we need to bring the referendum forward, there is time to | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
negotiate, and we tidy up the issue that has been hanging around for too | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
long. Do you trust David Cameron to deliver a referendum in 2017? I | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
completely support the Prime Minister, and of course I trust the | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
completely support the Prime Prime Minister. To deliver a | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
referendum? There as only variables in between. What I am doing with | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
referendum? There as only variables this amendment, is to try to be sure | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
is that Parliament and every MP has the opportunity decide whether they | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
want to be sure of a referendum within this parliament, or maybe | :05:27. | :05:28. | |
leave it to the vagaries of what may within this parliament, or maybe | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
happen in 2015. Supposing you got your way, how would you vote? Like | :05:33. | :05:39. | |
Michael Gove, I would vote for us to leave as of today, but there will be | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
Michael Gove, I would vote for us to an enormous amount of pressure on | :05:41. | :05:42. | |
European Union leaders to come an enormous amount of pressure on | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
forward with proposals. If they were to say, the mandate is not ever | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
closer political union, it is ever closer trading harmony, giving us | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
more border control and control over our legal system, I might change my | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
mind. But this is what needs to happen - if we have a referendum in | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
2014, 12 months is time for negotiations to be kick-started and | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
is cross-party, that is for certain, and I think we will see it | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
on hold over the next three or five weeks. He will have to ask each | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
individual MP. I am asking you, it is your motion! There will be other | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
motions coming forward, and I know there is widespread support, | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
cross-party, for people who want the British public to have a say in | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
2014. You know it is not going to get through, the whips will stop | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
this from happening. One of the successes, apparently, of your | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
party's Manchester conference was that you were not divided over | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was back to life and pouring petrol on | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
the flames - are you now the unlicensed troublemaker of the | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
Tories? The only struggle I have had is not a fight with my party but | :07:03. | :07:04. | |
Tories? The only struggle I have had with my conscience as to whether or | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
not I would give Parliament and the British people an opportunity to | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
have a say in 2014. I wrestled with it, and I decided I wanted people to | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
have that opportunity. It is for each individual MP to search their | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
soul, speak to constituents and decide whether they want that. You | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
decided it would get you in the headlines again. Oh, you are so | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition in that direction, I am not a | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
publicity seeker. All I seek is for the British people do have this. I | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
opportunity for Britain to have its say. We have left it far too long. | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
Nobody under the age of 56 has had a say. Thanks for joining us, good | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
luck with this continuing struggle with your conscience! I will move | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
the seat around and addressed the panel, what do you make of it? The | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
party managers must be furious with him. I think what this confirms is | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
that David Cameron is incredibly lucky in his enemies. His most | :08:01. | :08:09. | |
prolific critics, Nadine Dorries, Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
you are very anti-Cameron, you will not think, man, if only they were in | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
charge of the party! I think the party managers are not too alarmed. | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
They do not take him seriously? No, it is not a frivolous amendment. It | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
is not as if the James Wharton bill is a work of genius, it is riddled | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
with flaws, anomalies and loopholes. It purports to guarantee that a | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
referendum will take place in the next Parliament. My understanding of | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
the constitution is that is theoretically impossible and that | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
all the future government would do is cancel out that bill with another | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
bill. He does have a point that Cameron's plan for a referendum is | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
nothing like as likely to happen... Hung parliaments, frivolous | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
amendments can be immensely dangerous. The problem for David | :08:52. | :08:59. | |
Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would do | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
that, but what he might do is say to his MPs, ignore this. It may well be | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
that the Labour payroll and a significant number of Labour MPs do | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
not turn up, and then what you have got is a war between the | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
Conservative payroll and the Conservative backbenchers, and in | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
that war you might well find that Adam Afriyie's amendment goes | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
through, and then the Prime Minister has real trouble, because Adam | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
Afriyie says, the Prime Minister could renegotiate terms of | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
membership, up what basis and with which mandate? He would not be able | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
to get agreement with Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband, so you would be looking | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
at Adam Afriyie voting to leave. I think he is a Labour mole, that is | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
what I have come to, a Daily Mail style conspiracy theory, it could | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
not be more perfect. The prospect of style conspiracy theory, it could | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
a referendum on the EU at the same time as Scottish independence is | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
what no-one once, so that is it. He has told us he could not sleep at | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
night, wrestling with his conscience. We could send him some | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
pills, I suppose. We know he's going to sack all those lieutenants were | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
the Conservative Party. He denied doing that! He would be amazed to | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
hear you say that, this is a crisis of conscience. Whispered | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
conversations in corridors, quite an operation to get letters into Graham | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
Brady, he said to have letters, not 46, but at the moment this campaign | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
is being run by Lieutenant of Adam Afriyie. He has got lieutenants? | :10:34. | :10:41. | |
They are disaffected and not happy under David Cameron's leadership. | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
There is a whole army of them! I am pleased he has outmanoeuvred the | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
awkward squad, and now James Wharton is saying, you're going to kill my | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
political consequence of this episode is it will unify a large | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
political consequence of this chunk of the Colin Hendry | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
Conservative Party behind David Cameron. On what they hope is a | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
settled position. We still hope to be talking to John Prescott, who is | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
you want to buy a house? Can you afford the mortgage repayments but | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
not the 20% or 30% deposit the mortgage provider is demanding from | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
you? The Government says it has a scheme designed for you which is in | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
launching next week, help to buy, and it should lead to the | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
re-emergence of 95% mortgages, remember them?! But is the policy | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
really good for home-buyers or the British economy? Here is Giles. | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
Never mind who lives in a house like this, who can afford to buy a house | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
these days? The Government would this, who can afford to buy a house | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
like many more people to be able to without putting down a crippling | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
amount of money as a deposit, and in the spirit of rights to buy, the | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
government has launched help to buy, confusingly it is the name for two | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
different schemes. The first scheme, Help to Buy 1, has | :12:03. | :12:17. | |
been running since April. Help to Buy 2 was supposed to come in | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
January next year, but the government are bringing it in early. | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is that | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
it was for new build only, up to a value of £600,000. But it is Help to | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up | :12:46. | :12:53. | |
to a value, again, of £600,000. This time the Government is guaranteeing | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
that it will take on the first losses should the home owner in the | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
banks and building societies. And that, the Prime Minister thinks, is | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
a housing prime mover. You cannot get training to 5% mortgage anymore, | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
90% even, so there are couples in our country who have good jobs, | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
decent incomes, they could afford the mortgage payments but they | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
cannot buy the house. It is a failure in our banking market. So | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
that is the Prime Minister, Jonathan, but I guess for you this | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a scheme which should be hammered. The | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
main impact of this scheme will be to push up prices, who does that | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
benefit? Mostly rich and all the people who own their houses. Plus | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
the banks, of course, because it is a subsidy for them. Who loses? | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
People who want to buy a house in the future. Moreover, it is a bit | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
odd that the Government says it is not OK to borrow to finance schools | :14:04. | :14:10. | |
or roads, but it is fine for the Government to take on more debt, | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
effectively, in order to guarantee 95% mortgages and pump up the | :14:15. | :14:22. | |
housing market. 2.3 million? I do not think Help to Buy covers that. | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
But enter a would-be buyer, will they now be seeing a plethora of | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
help to buy mortgages? In a word, no. David Cameron has brought the | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
announcement forward by three months, and banks were not ready at | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
that stage. Two banks have committed to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
and the RBS group, so lenders like Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
be doing the scheme, but even once the scheme is up and running you are | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
not going to see Help to Buy mortgages badged up. You will | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
probably find 95% mortgages on the high street because of the guarantee | :14:59. | :15:07. | |
the government is offering. People might say this is how we got into a | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
mess in the first place. Why would the government want to make those | :15:11. | :15:19. | |
products available then now? It was more what investment banks were | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
doing in the background that caused the problems. Mortgages have | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
performed extremely well through the depths of the downturn. Is this a | :15:27. | :15:35. | |
game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few years | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
but this has enabled me to make that first purchase. How frustrating was | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
it just renting? Very frustrating, you are throwing away money hand | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
over fist, and now I can take that leap to being an owner. His | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
enthusiasm raises a question back at the flat. If you are looking for a | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
95% mortgage, you don't really care what will happen in the wider | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a | :16:06. | :16:14. | |
house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
economic damage. The tricky steps pleased, but it will do longer term | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
the government are trying to pull off is that home-buyers might be so | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
grateful for the opportunity to buy their own homes that they reward the | :16:26. | :16:33. | |
Government with the vote, while at the same time the Government tries | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
to sidestep consequences that such a scheme might create. | :16:38. | :16:51. | |
Now Conservative MP Margot James, and Allister Heath, editor of City | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
AM, go head to head. It is said by the critics that this | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
scheme will cause a housing bubble. Where is the evidence? House prices | :16:59. | :17:16. | |
are more varied. Housing not just in London remains overvalued and the | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
problem with this scheme is that it will pump up house prices, it will | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
not increase the supply and therefore houses will become even | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
more overvalued. That is a dangerous territory, last time it ended in | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
tears, and now the Government is taking on the risk of that policy. | :17:34. | :17:41. | |
What do you say to that? We have a real problem, it takes people on | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
average until they are 38 years old until they can buy their own | :17:46. | :17:54. | |
property. The problem is not that they cannot afford it, but they | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
cannot afford the deposit. We have got to do something to allow people | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any | :18:07. | :18:14. | |
new houses, but we are. Are you? We have had a record this year, 12 | :18:14. | :18:30. | |
months to right now, the record for the last ten years. These are not | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
the statistics I have seen, but the new supply is coming up. It is | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
the statistics I have seen, but the starting to creep up. We don't see | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
enough house building, need to build more houses and that is a solution | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
to this problem. You are right, people cannot afford to buy homes | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
and the reason is there are not enough good quality homes in the | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
right places. The reason the deposits are so high is because | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
house prices are still too high, and secondly the Government has passed | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
laws to make the banking system more prudent, telling them to put more | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
money aside in case things go wrong. Now suddenly the Government | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
is not happy with the outcome of its own rules and is trying to create | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
these subsidies to circumvent the rules it has put in place. It is not | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
a subsidy. Don't forget banks have to pay a charge in order to take | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
a subsidy. Don't forget banks have part in this loan scheme and that | :19:28. | :19:34. | |
the... You are guaranteeing the money. Yes, but the fear is worked | :19:34. | :19:41. | |
out on a commercial basis. The taxpayer is protected. Why? You are | :19:41. | :19:48. | |
guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes but the | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
response of the crash. They made the distressed test on people applying | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
response of the crash. They made the for mortgages much higher and you | :20:01. | :20:08. | |
have to be able to repay at twice... So it will not be like | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
these self certification mortgages handed out in America that caused | :20:12. | :20:19. | |
the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit like that but the banks are rightly | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
asking for bigger deposits, they know there is a big chance house | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
prices could fall if interest rates will go up, which they will | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
eventually, so they are demanding bigger deposits. The Government is | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
making sure the risk of circumventing this is being passed | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
making sure the risk of on to the taxpayers which is why it | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
is a dangerous policy. Instead they should be massively accelerating | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
house-building. Which we are. Planning permission is much easier | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
to get now, we have seen a 49% increase in planning permission for | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
a new building over the last year, a huge increase. In the figures I saw | :20:58. | :21:05. | |
recently, they showed new start in the 12 months to the autumn were | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
only about 110,000 which is the figure you inherited, which was at | :21:11. | :21:17. | |
an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the last quarter are third | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
up on the time last year. You have got to give a chance for the | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
relaxation of planning laws and the other policies the Government put | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
into effect last year to take effect and it is coming through now. I | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
agree, if we weren't building more houses, if the construction sector | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
was not really ready to take advantage of the increased demand, | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
there would be a risk. David Cameron says you are snob and it is only | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They don't have the bank of mum and dad, | :21:51. | :21:59. | |
people like that will finally get on the housing ladder. That is complete | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
nonsense. We need a sustainable housing market where there is a | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
large amount of construction, like in the 1930s for example, where | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
large numbers of proper family homes were being built for people. House | :22:13. | :22:21. | |
prices were pushed down and people could afford houses. You are now | :22:21. | :22:27. | |
encouraging people to take out a 95% mortgage, I thought that was a bad | :22:27. | :22:34. | |
idea, so supposing interest rates go up by a lot, I am going to | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford. | :22:43. | :22:51. | |
95% mortgage, if you can afford the repayments, you will be fine. What | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
happens when interest rates rise? They have got to rise a lot before | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
you get into trouble. People are already affording rent which is a | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into | :23:08. | :23:15. | |
this scheme unless you can afford repayments double what they are at | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
the moment. The Conservatives should have been enjoying the media | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
limelight last week but there was an unwelcome intruder in the shape of a | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
row between Ed Miliband and the Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
Daily Mail printed an article claiming that Ed Miliband's Father | :23:33. | :23:40. | |
Ralph hated Britain. They showed a picture of his father's gravestone | :23:40. | :23:47. | |
with the caption, grave socialist. They then removed the photo and gave | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
Ed Miliband the right to reply on the Tuesday edition, but also | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
printed an editorial alongside it saying they stood by every word they | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
published an fair headline. It also emerged in the week that the | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
reporter had gate-crashed a private memorial service for Ed Miliband's | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
uncle in a London hospital, for which the paper has now apologised, | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the Daily Mail owner to take a long, | :24:14. | :24:20. | |
hard look at the way his papers are run. This comes a week before a new | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
system of press regulation is run. This comes a week before a new | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
considered at the Privy Council. Joining us now from Hull, John | :24:27. | :24:35. | |
Prescott. Does this row between Ed Miliband and the Daily Mail | :24:35. | :24:42. | |
reinforce the case for tough, new regulation of the press? It | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
certainly influences the opinion about that but that is more of Paul | :24:45. | :24:51. | |
Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang me while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
sure my complaints were nothing to do with press regulation and he is | :24:57. | :25:04. | |
right. This argument is not about politicians and media people, it is | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
about ordinary people that love this and dealt with. All of these cases | :25:08. | :25:16. | |
affected individual people and they are the ones that need to have | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
justice in this matter. Next week we will be hearing whether the Privy | :25:22. | :25:31. | |
Council will be reporting on the proposal to replace it. Are you | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
agreeing then that what the mail did with its Miliband article was a | :25:37. | :25:48. | |
matter of judgement? Yes, and the with its Miliband article was a | :25:48. | :25:57. | |
Leveson inquiry came to the conclusion that the relationship | :25:57. | :26:04. | |
between the press, the police and politicians should be governed, but | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
this is about how you have a framework that can be fair to | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
everyone. If you look at the proposal given by half the press | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
industry that that does not meet the Leveson requirement and I suspect | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
the Privy Council this week will have to reject that, and I hope it | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
will because it is not consistent with the Leveson report which the | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
Prime Minister said he supported. You attacked the mail in your column | :26:31. | :26:38. | |
today but your paper went through the Cameron family bins to see what | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
nappies they used for their disabled son. Isn't that far more offensive | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
than what the Daily Mail wrote about Ralph Miliband? It probably is, I | :26:46. | :26:56. | |
couldn't defend that. I have had reporters going through my bins. | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
couldn't defend that. I have had Haven't we all? Yes, but we are | :27:01. | :27:07. | |
dealing with the judgement of editors who acts unilaterally. Paul | :27:07. | :27:14. | |
Dacre is running this thing in the Mail. How can we accept their | :27:15. | :27:22. | |
Dacre is running this thing in the judgement and some accountability | :27:22. | :27:30. | |
which the press have accepted the old PCC is no good. They are playing | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
for time because if they reject it this week there is 12 months until | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
you can consider a parliamentary alternative and then you are near | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
the election and you begin to bully the leaders. That is how they have | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
been successful in putting off recommendations. Maybe my memory is | :27:47. | :27:57. | |
fading but did you or anybody else in the Labour Party object to the | :27:57. | :28:04. | |
Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't know about it. I would just say it | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
is wrong if that is what they did. As you said, you have the same | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
position when they go through your rubbish bins, I think that is wrong. | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
We have Leveson set up by the Prime Minister to look at the cultures and | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
practices and the unilateral action of editors and he came forward with | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
a proposal that was agreed in Parliament under a compromise of the | :28:26. | :28:39. | |
Royal Charter. I don't like a Royal Charter, it is not democratic | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
frankly, but we have agreed to go along with it so why did the | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
Government set up in charge at the same time rushed through the press | :28:44. | :28:50. | |
box? It looks like a fix, like they are using the Royal Charter as a | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
means of delaying everything. They have now said they are going to | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
introduce their own independent charter. This industry does not want | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
to face up to any form of accountability. We know Alistair | :29:07. | :29:08. | |
Campbell and Ed Miliband's officers accountability. We know Alistair | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
are working closely on the assault of the Mail. What is the endgame for | :29:13. | :29:23. | |
this? Is it the head of Paul Dacre? He is not an acceptable character to | :29:23. | :29:35. | |
me, and he needs to be taking account. When Ed Miliband rang me it | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
was to say, don't let these arguments drift into press | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
regulation, he wanted the argument of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband | :29:43. | :29:57. | |
after Paul Dacre's head? No, he can stay there. It is like with Murdoch, | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
after Paul Dacre's head? No, he can we were not attacking him but what | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
is papers were doing. To that extent, what they are doing about | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
is papers were doing. To that ordinary people, not just big | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
politicians who can look after themselves. We know, with the bad | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
cases he had to deal with, they might get libel action, which the | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
press say, but they pretty well destroyed their lives. That is about | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
judgment. If you say, as Paul Dacre got good | :30:21. | :30:36. | |
What is the endgame in this? Whether the Labour Party is trying to make | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
this an issue of press regulation or not, that is where it is going. | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
Pretty soon the privy Council will discuss the issue of press | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
regulation, before the end of the year. The question is, what is the | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
impact on the various political partiesmy hunch is that the total | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
political impact of the Levinson enquiry over the past several years | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
is close to zero, because most voters don't care and those who do | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
care tends to believe that all parties are roughly equally | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
complicit in being too close to editors. You said that the claims | :31:12. | :31:19. | |
that Adam Afriyie was a Labour maul -- mole, this has been a dream for | :31:20. | :31:30. | |
Ed Miliband. I am taking on Murdoch, the energy companies, and now the | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
evil Daily Mail! Are used to work for the Daily Mail, so I have to | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
take that into account. When they printed the right of reply, they | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
surrounded it with a big two fingers up at him. If they hadn't done | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
that, they probably would not be in the position they are in now. The | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
poll in the Sunday Times this morning shows that most people think | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
the Daily Mail was wrong. If you defend your dad, people will | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
naturally do this, but it took all the coverage away from the Tory | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
conference. The media likes covering itself and here it is doing it | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
again. This has been a dream for Ed Miliband. The political significance | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
of this is that David Cameron said that he wanted to try to find some | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
common ground between the three party Royal Charter and the | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
so-called press Royal Charter which is half of the press industry which | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
has signed up to it. The Daily Mail has ensured that the Prime Minister | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
will not be able to do that. What will happen this week is that the | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
press Royal Charter has to be considered first. That will probably | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
be rejected. Then what will happen is the three party Royal Charter in | :32:39. | :32:46. | |
will come up, but meanwhile there will still be a press regulatory | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
body because the Royal Charter is not a proper statutory underpinning | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
and they will therefore be able to go ahead with that. Basically, it | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
will all just go into the long grass and it will be an impasse that will | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
probably not be resolved. That you say that nobody much cares about | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
this outside of our profession. My point is that this has been great | :33:07. | :33:14. | |
politics for Ed Miliband. Is only great politics if he scores a | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
relative victory, if he's seen to be pure than the other party leaders. | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
There is little evidence of that so far. I take your point about the | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
poll that shows people are sympathetic to him. He says that, I | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
am the chap who stands up a vested interest. That all the vested | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
interests he stands up to people you would expect a left-wing politician | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
to want to take on, Murdoch, the mail and so on. It is about who he | :33:38. | :33:46. | |
has stated before, who is his father. Maybe people thought of him | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
as a Marxist and now people think of him as a hero. It is approaching | :33:50. | :33:59. | |
11:35am. You are watching the Sunday Politics. | :33:59. | :34:06. | |
Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up, how | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
the cost of living issue could cost the political parties. They have all | :34:09. | :34:16. | |
been anxious to address the problem. The next Labour government will | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
freeze gas and electricity prices until the start of 2017. Can I | :34:20. | :34:28. | |
recall a measure introduced by a leader of a major political party in | :34:28. | :34:35. | |
the UK which has received such widespread and utter and total | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
condemnation? ! I see that the Labour Party has stopped talking | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
about fuel prices and energy prices and now they are talking about the | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
cost of living prices, as if one was not directly related to the other. | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
So with the pound in your pocket seeming to drain away, how are you | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
being affected by the cost of living, and is it a crisis? I didn't | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
think, when I was retired, I thought I would be comfortable. I own my | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
house and I have no mortgage. I am still struggling. | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
Hello. The Prime Minister talked about it, Holyrood debated it and Ed | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
Miliband even mentioned it in a letter of complaint to the Mail on | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
Sunday. Yes, the cost of living has dominated debate. It probably stems | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
from so-called Red Ed's pledge to freeze energy prices. So how can | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
politicians address the problem, and who is to blame anyway? Here's Niall | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
O'Gallagher's take on the week's events. | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
Counting the cost. Inverness man Eddie Collins keeps a close eye on | :35:36. | :35:54. | |
the energy users. He has to do. Armed with his latest meter | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
reading, Eddie scours the internet for the best deals. Prices keep | :35:58. | :36:06. | |
rising, but as a pensioner, his income is fixed. Every penny counts. | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
I monitor my costs monthly, and also in between the months and I do a | :36:12. | :36:21. | |
forecast once a week to get a meeting -- a reading and I put it | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
into the computer and it gives me a forecast of what I will need for the | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
end of the month. The pressure on consumers is pushing up the | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
political temperature. Ed Miliband wants to see prices capped. But his | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
opponents say the government should get out of the control room. The | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
energy promise, they admitted 24 hours later they would not be able | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
to keep it. It is all sticking plasters and quick fixes, together | :36:46. | :36:52. | |
for the cameras. Read Ed and his blue Peter economy. Will the | :36:52. | :36:58. | |
Minister simply match that commitment for his preferred | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
separate Scotland and you regulator? Never can I recall a | :37:02. | :37:09. | |
measure introduced by a leader of a major political party in the UK | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
which has received such widespread utter and total condemnation as | :37:15. | :37:24. | |
being completely unworkable! Ministers seemed complete the aware | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
he was trashing the idea of a cap as Ministers seemed complete the aware | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
they made their way into the chamber for first ministers questions. | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
Later, the Scotsman said their expert commission could look at the | :37:34. | :37:45. | |
Labour proposed freeze to. Today, we saw Fergus Ewing give the game away. | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
None of you agree with it and you on the side of the energy companies and | :37:49. | :37:55. | |
not on the side of ordinary people. I thought I would be more | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
comfortable when I was retired. I own my house and I have no mortgage. | :37:58. | :38:05. | |
I'm still struggling. Eddie expects prices to keep going up and is | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
sceptical about the ability of politicians to pin the energy | :38:08. | :38:14. | |
companies back. Labour think this is fertile ground for them, as they | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
pursue their cost of living agenda. The question for voters is whether | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
pruning prices will help coax the economy back to growth or stop the | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
green shoots from breaking through. I'm joined now in the studio by | :38:29. | :38:38. | |
Stewart Maxwell. He is an SNP MSP. From Edinburgh we have Scottish | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
Labour's finance spokesman Ian Gray and his counterpart from the | :38:41. | :38:51. | |
Conservatives, Gavin Brown. The SNP split over energy price freeze, that | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
was in the headlines this week. Is there a split in the SNP over Ed | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
Miliband's plans to freeze energy prices? There is no split, I know | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
the papers enjoy that kind of thing, but there is no split. We are | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
focused on trying to reduce household bills in Scotland. It is | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
an interesting idea for Labour to freeze energy prices, but the | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
problem they face if they have published no information or evidence | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
or background research, so we have no idea whether that is feasible or | :39:19. | :39:26. | |
not. Is an interesting that -- idea, and we all want to see a full | :39:26. | :39:38. | |
analysis. Yes, but many senior people both in the industry and the | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
Labour Party have said that, frankly, they doubt it is even | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
workable or can even be in demented. There are clear problems with the | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
policy they have put forward. We are focusing on what we can do and we | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
have made sure that, for example, we have frozen council tax. That will | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
save the average household in Scotland £1200 by the end of this | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
Parliament. Labour's energy policy, even if it is implementable, would | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
only save £120. So we are doing much more already through this proposal. | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
£120 is a lot of money for a lot of people. In principle, would you | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
welcome this policy? If you could sort out some of the tweaks here and | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
there, would you like a policy to freeze energy prices if you could | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
work one? Absolutely, we welcome the principle of keeping all household | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
bills down, which is why we have scrapped tuition fees, prescription | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
charges and bridge tolls. The point is that we have put this whole | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
policy, as well as other things to do with energy regulation, into an | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
expert commission. Let's not three judge the work of the expert | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
commission. It into the long grass? Not at all. They will get energy | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
regulation and not with whether or not this is a workable policy. | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
Frankly, we have not had any evidence from Labour that it is. The | :40:52. | :40:58. | |
Scottish government has sent this to an expert commission and will look | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
at it in more detail than just an off-the-cuff announcement at | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
conference. Is this policy workable? It is workable and there | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
is nothing off-the-cuff about it. It is not just about the energy | :41:09. | :41:15. | |
crisised price freeze -- energy price freeze. We want to introduce a | :41:15. | :41:23. | |
more open wholesale market, but also a strong regulator will stop in | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
Parliament this week, Fergus Ewing did not say that he did not believe | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
it was possible to freeze energy prices, he also said that an | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
independent Scotland might see an independent regulator. I know that | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
Stuart is keen to say there is no split, but call me old-fashioned, | :41:42. | :41:49. | |
but Fergus Ewing is this deck -- government's energy minister, and if | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
he says this policy is impossible and they will not pursue it, surely | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
that is the policy of the Scottish government. So either we stay part | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
of the United Kingdom and benefit from a freeze in energy prices and a | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
strong regulator he then continued to regulate those unfair prices, or | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
we going to an independent Scotland with Fergus Ewing's policy of | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
allowing energy companies to continue to put their prices up | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
willy-nilly. I think we heard from the energy companies, he thought the | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
policy was unworkable. Fergus Ewing was giving some examples from | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
California where a similar policy had catastrophic consequences. Let | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
me address the California example. It is ridiculous. The reason the | :42:26. | :42:34. | |
California energy market collapsed and had blackouts was not because | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
there were controls on prices, but because the energy market was run by | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
Enron, who illegally manipulated the market to create energy shortages. | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
Unless Fergus Ewing is suggesting that the SNP in an independent | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
Scotland will let Enron run our energy markets, that is simply not | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
going to happen. I think that example, it really shows you how | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
desperate the SNP are to rubbish the policy because they know they are on | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
the wrong side of this, on the side of the energy companies is set off | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
on the side of hard-pressed consumers. 900,000 households in | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
Scotland live in fuel poverty. That is the side we are on. They are on | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
the side of the energy companies. Stewart Maxwell, a quick response | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
from you. That is clearly nonsense. I have already pointed out that we | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
are saving the average house or in Scotland ten times more through | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
council tax freezing than through Labour's energy policy. Even Lord | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
Mandelson has said this policy is unworkable. Let's that the expert | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
commission have a go at this. I want to bring in Gavin Brown from the | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
Conservatives. You are sitting on the sidelines on this debate, but Ed | :43:43. | :43:50. | |
Miliband was really quite a fright for the Prime Minister when he made | :43:50. | :43:57. | |
his promise. His poll ratings shot up and Mr Cameron was forced to | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
address it in his conference speech. The idea of reading an energy bill | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
is superficially attractive to consumers, but it is a short-term | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
measure and I think there would be quite serious long-term | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
implications. I would be concerned about the level of investment we | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
would see from companies across the board as we try to move towards a | :44:16. | :44:23. | |
low carbon economy. We already know that there is several hundred | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
billion pounds of infrastructure investment needed to keep the lights | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
on and in order to have a proper energy system in the future. I think | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
this would potentially damaging. I think there are other investments | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
you could take us are just giving greater powers to Ofgem and looking | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
into price mechanisms and looking into mis-selling, for example. The | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
energy bill itself will force energy companies to have the lowest | :44:47. | :44:55. | |
possible tariff for consumers. There are things that can be done, but | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
they do think that this policy of Mr Miliband is unworkable and I -- and | :44:59. | :45:07. | |
it will have damaging long-term publications -- implications. All | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
three of your parties are complicit in higher energy bills because of | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
the extra tariff levied for green renewable investment. One analysis | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
today in the Sunday Telegraph puts it at £425 in higher bills over the | :45:20. | :45:27. | |
next six years. Stewart Maxwell cup -- of the SNP, you need that | :45:27. | :45:33. | |
investment in green technology. Yes, and the investment will provide many | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
jobs going forward, and it will be a hugely important part of the | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
Scottish economy going forward. We must replace the carbon heavy fuels | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
that we use at the moment. Yes, we have to invest in it, and that is | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
one of the big questions about Labour's policy. What damaging | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
consequences would it have for the future of green energy? Ed Miliband | :45:53. | :46:01. | |
was the person who introduced the energy secretary -- green tariff as | :46:01. | :46:09. | |
energy secretary. We do need investment for the shift to | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
renewables. One of the lesser noticed aspects of Fergus Ewing's | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
intervention in Parliament was that he also described something that | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
would destroy the single integrated energy market in the United Kingdom, | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
so the cost you are referring to, instead of being spread between 60 | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
million essential consumers in the UK might well for 5 million | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
consumers in Scotland, and that is a policy which we would certainly | :46:33. | :46:40. | |
think would put our energy bills up. The coalition government have not | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
done enough to tackle the high fuel bills. Had they are on the side of | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
vested interests. They are taking action, and the Conservatives | :46:48. | :46:54. | |
leaving balanced measures. We believe nuclear power needs to be a | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
part of the energy mix. That, of course, is low-carbon, and you would | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
not therefore need quite the same levels you would need under SNP | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
proposals. Let's look at other living costs | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
issues. We had a debate in Parliament this week where Labour | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
accused the Scottish governance of not doing enough to help people with | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
the cost of living. Frankly, that is nonsense. If we had had a Labour | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
the cost of living. Frankly, that is government in Scotland just now, we | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
would still have tuition fees and prescription charges. They were | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
having outstayed commission that would roll back all the progress | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
that has been made on free bus passes for the elderly and other | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
people, and we would not have had the council tax freeze that is | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
saving the average household £1200 by the time this car -- Parliament | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
is completed. We are doing everything we possibly can and we | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
have had over £260 million of investment over three years for | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
energy-saving measures. A lot of work is being done. Ian Gray from | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
Labour, it sounds like a shopping list to tackle the cost of living. | :48:02. | :48:10. | |
We have paid for cuts in services in many other ways. If this is the | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
SNP's approach to addressing the cost of living, it isn't working. | :48:14. | :48:20. | |
900,000 households in Scotland are in fuel poverty. That is increasing. | :48:20. | :48:26. | |
The way in which these things have been paid for, we demonstrated | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
through the week that this was because of the disappearance of £1 | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
billion of anti-poverty programmes. You use that to do things like make | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
prescriptions free. My prescriptions are free now. That is not the way | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
you address the cost of living for those who are most seriously | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
affected. He talks about the investment the government are | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
making, but if we look at capital investment, the government refused | :48:52. | :48:59. | |
to make sure that the investment is creating local, high-quality, | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
full-time and permanent jobs. We support investment in the economy, | :49:04. | :49:10. | |
not investment in zero hours contract jobs. We need the Scottish | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
governance do far more on this. There was a debate through the | :49:16. | :49:21. | |
week... I want to get onto Gavin Brown. Mr Gray made the point about | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
targeted and universal benefits, but the fact is that universal benefits | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
are extremely popular with voters, although the Conservatives probably | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
want more targeted benefits. I think you need a blend of both. The | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
government needs to do to maximise here. We need to focus on the | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
economy and get the economy moving so that we can get people back into | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
work. We also need to look at specific measures that have been | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
highlighted as particularly challenging. The UK government, for | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
example, raised income tax threshold to £10,000, or it will be by April | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
next year. That takes hundreds of thousands of people out of tax | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
altogether and gives them more money in their pocket. Freezing the fuel | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
duty which has happened now for three years and it is hoped will go | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
on until the end of the Westminster Parliament, that puts money back | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
into people's pockets saving not just motorists, but also people in | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
rural areas, feeding into the general cost of the economy. And I | :50:21. | :50:31. | |
want to pick up with that point. And we saw the clip from the Prime | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
Minister at the start of the programme. In his conference speech, | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
he was talking about fixing macro economic stuff. He was wanting to | :50:42. | :50:49. | |
address the cost of living. Is this Labour 's problem that we are in | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
this mess in the first place? No, the Prime Minister has made a mess | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
of this. What about the figures we saw this week which showed that in | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
the last year, 500,000 Scottish people borrowed money to buy food. | :51:03. | :51:12. | |
That is the date basis. That is a problem people are facing BN, PO. It | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
is caused by the decisions made in both Westminster and Holyrood. | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
Freezing energy prices would be a start. I want to look at other | :51:23. | :51:32. | |
headlines. And you defence paper coming out on Tuesday. A warning | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
that an independent Scotland could not inherit the traditional | :51:37. | :51:43. | |
regiments. Philip Hammond has already said Scotland would inherit | :51:44. | :51:50. | |
its fair share of the assets, so let us put the scaremongering to bed. If | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
you are being faced by redundancy at the moment from the conservative | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
party and fill Howard Hammond is seen you will be sacked, or you | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
could join the Scottish defence Force and no redundancies will be | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
there, I think people will very proudly choose to serve any Scottish | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
defence force. Scaremongering from the Secretary of State for defence? | :52:18. | :52:26. | |
I think the point in the papers is that it is inherent on several | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
points. The simple carve up of Scottish regiments simply would not | :52:32. | :52:44. | |
be the case. It is up to serving personnel to decide what they would | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
want to do in the event of separation. But I has to be said | :52:47. | :52:55. | |
that Scotland would not get automatic entry into Natal. This is | :52:55. | :53:02. | |
another example of how the SNP prospective is based on wishful | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
thinking, for the let us to do with Europe, Natal or carving up Scottish | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
regiments. The applicant then they could do these things and it is a | :53:11. | :53:20. | |
dishonest prospectus to offer the population of Scotland. | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
So, that is what the politicians have to say. How are people really | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
coping with a definite decline in their living standards. In a moment, | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
we will explore what a couple of experts have to say on the matter, | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
but first, here is a look at life when bills are going up and money is | :53:36. | :53:45. | |
tight. Just over six years ago, we walled in cheap energy prices and | :53:45. | :53:53. | |
low interest rates. No, annual income is not matching expenditure. | :53:53. | :54:00. | |
As increasing numbers seek help, what are the asking about? Problems | :54:00. | :54:09. | |
with date and increasingly people not having the money to boot into | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
prepayment meters. They are getting extortion bells and one a date will | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
never be able to pay them. There are also other increasing pressures on | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
their income. The utility bills are going up and the food is going up. | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
The money they have got coming in, whether from jobs are benefits, is | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
getting cut and not going as far as it did even just a couple of years | :54:32. | :54:37. | |
ago. Things ain't what they used to be. Citizens advice Scotland seat | :54:37. | :54:46. | |
they saw a one third rise in people worried about energy bills. | :54:46. | :54:54. | |
Remarkably, there was a 87% rise in people asking about warm home | :54:55. | :55:02. | |
discount or in surely she areas. It shows how keen people are about the | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
energy bills. I am joined here in the studio by | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
Jim McCormick of the Rowntree Foundation and, in our Edinburgh | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
studio, by business and economics journalist Bill Jamieson. Thank you | :55:13. | :55:23. | |
for joining me. Jim, you are looking closely at the cost of living. What | :55:23. | :55:28. | |
is the snapshot pictures you are seen? Every year, we ask the British | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
public what would be an a basket of goods adequate for living. That | :55:34. | :55:45. | |
level of income that we have seen as a 25% increase in the cost of | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
essentials, the likes of food, energy and childcare. Given that | :55:49. | :55:54. | |
wages, tax credits and benefits have either stalled or been cut in | :55:54. | :56:00. | |
certain places, people on low to moderate incomes have been | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
struggling to keep the head above the water, in terms of the gap | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
between the income and living standards. It is right that | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
politicians should address this agenda. Bill Jamieson, you study the | :56:10. | :56:17. | |
cost of living a lot and rate about it a lot. Is this a picture you | :56:17. | :56:24. | |
recognise? I was it affecting different sectors of society, the | :56:24. | :56:30. | |
working class, the middle-class, to use the old labels. We are seeing | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
polarisation in the highest rate. We have seen figures from Tesco which | :56:34. | :56:40. | |
showed the dramatic fall in profits. People are going to the low-cost end | :56:40. | :56:48. | |
of shopping, such as liberals and other shops like that. At the top | :56:48. | :56:53. | |
end, there are great performances by the likes of Waitrose, who are doing | :56:53. | :57:00. | |
extraordinarily well. Luxury car sales are up 12%. Well it is right | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
to focus on the low end of the scale, whether as hardship, we are | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
seeing polarisation. That is an interesting point, the polarisation. | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
There is a gap between the well-off middle classes and the working | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
classes, but also the working brewer, actually. In Parliament this | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
week, we were hearing about people who are working going to food | :57:26. | :57:33. | |
banks. I think the scale of this surprises politicians of all | :57:33. | :57:40. | |
parties. When politicians are in opposition, they are very keen to | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
express opinions on this, but when they are in government, there has | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
never been a cop even responds to this. This not only refers to likes | :57:48. | :58:01. | |
of childcare, but if you are on EPA meter, you are paying a higher tire | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
tariffs, so people who have less choice as can tumours are the most | :58:04. | :58:13. | |
vulnerable. It is not just people out of work, but people and workers | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
well. The way the childcare market operates, we see very high cost, but | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
very patchy quality. The government needs to address not just energy, | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
but private rents and what is happening in childcare. Politicians | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
have to hear the complaints about the cost of living, so what do you | :58:33. | :58:39. | |
make of attempts made this week and the three gentlemen you have here | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
from. What you think of the attempts to address this? I do not think | :58:43. | :58:49. | |
there is a lot they can do in the image of town. I think we are in for | :58:49. | :58:55. | |
the long haul here. I think week the reason we are seeing this | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
polarisation I was talking about, for people who already have assets, | :58:58. | :59:05. | |
such as property or shearers in companies, they are doing very well. | :59:05. | :59:12. | |
The property boom raised the price of assets. If you do not have | :59:12. | :59:18. | |
assets, not a lot will happen for you. This will time to address. As I | :59:18. | :59:25. | |
missing, why we are seeing buoyant sales at the high end of the market. | :59:25. | :59:34. | |
On television tonight, we have seen a high end television drama queer | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
Tesco are taking advertising space in it. We're also seeing the | :59:39. | :59:48. | |
difference mortgage rates compare to the mortgage outgoings compared to | :59:48. | :59:52. | |
the 1980s and 1990s. That is a big difference for many households. | :59:52. | :00:01. | |
People who do not have assets are turning to payday loan lenders and | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
we will see will legislation about this to tighten up on that next | :00:04. | :00:12. | |
week. Although energy, companies would like customers to pick up the | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
phone and let them know when they are having problems paying bills, | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
more often than not, people will ignore any warning let us went to | :00:21. | :00:31. | |
these payday loans. We have the likes of help to buy schemes and | :00:31. | :00:38. | |
other payday lending licensing schemes. The question is how we do | :00:38. | :00:47. | |
this intelligently. The response from business from regulation, the | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
response was interesting. The big six energy companies took fright. | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
How can be what the semi-capitalist system where we regulate these | :00:59. | :01:05. | |
markets and to taxpayers have a raw deal? When you liked it utility | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
companies were privatised, we are still picking up the tab, paying for | :01:10. | :01:19. | |
higher real fears and energy prices? Yes, the joys of privatisation have | :01:19. | :01:26. | |
worn very thin. We have not seen the likes of competition that we hoped | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
we would see which would keep prices down. There is certainly a cause for | :01:30. | :01:37. | |
ramping up the regulatory muscle. There is a feeling that that one | :01:37. | :01:52. | |
will be in that industry for the likes of a year or 18 months before | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
regulation will stamp down on it. But we are faced with the vagaries | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
of energy prices, which are out with our control, as are the oil prices. | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
We are is the rate balance, the fear and efficient balance, between the | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
cost to the consumer and the government. People would argue that | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
we still have to get the balance right. | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
You are watching Sunday Politics Scotland from the BBC. We have still | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
got our look at the Week Ahead to come, with our two pundits, Gillian | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
Bowditch of The Sunday Times and Murray Ritchie, the former political | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
editor of The Herald. But first, let us cross to Alisdair Fraser for the | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
latest news from Reporting Scotland. Good afternoon. An investigation has | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
begun after two prison officers were injured during a disturbance | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
yesterday at Scotland's newest jail. The incident at Low Moss prison in | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
East Dunbartonshire lasted more than seven hours. It is understood that | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
only a small number of prisoners were involved. | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
A motorcyclist has died in a road accident in the Highlands. It | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
happened on the A87 Invergarry to Kyle of Lochalsh road near Bun Loyne | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
in the Highlands, just before five o'clock yesterday evening. The | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
51-year-old man has not been named. Some of the world's top athletes are | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
pounding the streets of Glasgow today in the Great Scottish Run. | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
Around 23,000 runners are taking part in the half-marathon and 10k | :03:20. | :03:31. | |
events. Olympic gold-medallist Kathleen Grainger started the event. | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
The route passes some of the city's most famous landmarks, iconic | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
buildings and Commonwealth Games venues. Late running engineering | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
works had delayed some runners travelling to the event by train, | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
but ScotRail say their service is back to normal. | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
Time now for a look at the weather with Judith. | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
Good afternoon. Quite a settled look to the weather, which is good news | :03:51. | :04:00. | |
for these runners that you were just seen. Some thick cloud across the | :04:00. | :04:10. | |
south-west, which will lead to rain in the likes of Galloway. Bails | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
particularly in the East of Scotland. Quite breezy along the | :04:14. | :04:22. | |
East Coast -- West Coast. That is all for now. Reporting | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
Scotland is back at 6.10pm. Thanks, Alisdair. It has been a busy | :04:26. | :04:39. | |
week in politics. Here is our look back at the past seven days in 60 | :04:39. | :04:50. | |
seconds. Hundreds of patients in NHS client had their appointments | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
postponed GGA, future failure. Plans to close police stations out | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
for consultation. Upto 1000 new jobs are being created | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
in Scotland by a major call centre operator. | :05:06. | :05:13. | |
Tram testing starts next week in Edinburgh. Residents have been | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
warned to look out for them at junctions. | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
And the Scottish Green party's annual conference has been held in | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
Inverness. Delegates were told the party could play a key role in | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
convincing Scots to vote for independence in the referendum. We | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
do have to work harder to knock on more doors, to work with building | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
relationships with more voters, to persuade them to put across in the | :05:38. | :05:46. | |
box for the Green party. Let's turn our attention to the week | :05:46. | :05:53. | |
ahead with our pundits. I'm joined here in the studio by Jim | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
McCormick of the Rowntree Foundation, and in our Edinburgh | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
studio we have Bill Jamieson, the business and economics journalist. | :06:00. | :06:17. | |
Her bark -- I'm joined here in the studio by Gillian Bowditch of the | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
Sunday Times, and Murray Ritchie, the former Political Editor of the | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
Herald. What you think about the cost of living and what politicians | :06:24. | :06:31. | |
had to say? Very interesting to hear politicians speak on this subject. | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
What I think is that, superficially, it has attracted the idea of | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
controlling energy prices. In practice, there was little the | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
politicians can do. It is about wages and inflation and prices, and | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
they don't have the mechanism to make a big difference. What it comes | :06:47. | :06:56. | |
down to, you can freeze energy prices, but you can bet your bottom | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
dollar that the energy prices will prices, but you can bet your bottom | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
go up before the 20 month deadline and they will go up again at the end | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
of it. It is something that people are very concerned about, but what | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
the politicians have to do is ensure that the economy is in a state where | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
we are going to create general prosperity and wealth. It is tough | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
for the politicians, isn't it? Particularly those in the UK | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
government and Holyrood, it is difficult for them to address these | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
living cost issues. In the conference season, the party leaders | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
always look to the polls. They always want to try to find a comment | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
or a promise or a statement, something that will help their | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
or a promise or a statement, standing in the opinion polls. It | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
worked brilliantly for Ed Miliband. His comments on freezing energy were | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
brilliant, and the Prime Minister had to respond. He said that he | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
would control the cost of living, as though he could cost -- sap his | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
fingers and it would happen. As Gillian said, this is rhetoric and | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
not action. It frightens people like this and this time of year when we | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
are looking at polls and all the rest of it, they out in the real | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
world, I am not sure people respond to this greatly. People are looking | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
for real action. Yes, people are suffering. Compared to five years | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
ago, wages are suppressed and prices have gone up, so people really | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
notice it. The thing that has to happen is that the economy has to | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
get going. There is no point doing a huge amount about prices, you cannot | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
do that. But you can create prosperity so that people have more | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
money in their pockets and they have better paying jobs. That is where | :08:33. | :08:41. | |
the focus has to be. Let's turn our focus to the independence | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
referendum. The Greens have been having their conference in | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
Inverness. Murray, have you seen the role of the Greens in the | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
referendum? They were debating that, the story today was about an | :08:53. | :09:00. | |
apparent so-called split in the yes campaign and the Greenstone want the | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
pound. When I was convener of the independence convention after my | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
retirement, we invited the Greens join and they were hesitant. Some of | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
them supported independence and some supported devolution. They have | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
since embrace independence, but I think they were always worried that | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
this would be seen as an Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon and | :09:20. | :09:27. | |
venture, and even Labour voters would be kept to the side. It is | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
good to see the Greens emerging from this with their own policies and | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
they have very cogent arguments to make about how Scotland would be a | :09:39. | :09:47. | |
better place under independence environmentally. And Gillian, do you | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
think they are uneasy bedfellows with the SNP? Patrick Harvie has | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
always said that the form of independence being offered by SNP | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
and Alex Salmond is a deceptive form of independence. It is not that I | :10:00. | :10:07. | |
must -- it is not an honest form of independence. The Greens want to see | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
a radical form of independence, separating from the pound and the | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
monarchy and the state. It is all the things that Alex Salmond is | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
trying to fudge just now. Patrick Harvie has said that people have to | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
make this hard decision and cannot pretend it will be all things to all | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
people. That is where the fundamental difference is. The | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
Greens? Vision of independence would make Scotland, the cost of living | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
would go screaming up some of that policies were introduced. But | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
intellectually, it is a more honest version of independence. Murray, the | :10:39. | :10:47. | |
front page of the Scotland on Sunday today, MoD warns SNP on control of | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
unit after independence. This looks like it's coming out in a White | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
Paper on Tuesday. Does this complicate matters? They seem to be | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
saying that Scottish regiments would not be Scottish any more. Think | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
about that. All these guys in kilts playing bagpipes marching down the | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
street saying, we are an English regiment will sub it does not | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
compute. There will be questions to be settled. End the stories are | :11:11. | :11:20. | |
coming out, being churned out in Whitehall and Westminster and | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
saying, Scotland can't do this on that. We're going to get a lot more | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
of that. Their answers to all of these things. Only one question has | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
been settled so far and that is Europe. The yes campaign have won | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
the European debate hands down. We're not going to be thrown out of | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
Europe, we will be members of the European Union, and all that remains | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
is a negotiation about how much we pay for it. As for the rear -- rest | :11:44. | :11:50. | |
of it, there is still a debate going on. There is more debate and more | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
interested these papers coming out from the UK government. Is it | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
arrogant of the UK government to say, hang on, these are Scottish | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
regiments would be Scottish? It is to be critical, because the success | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
of Labour and Conservative governments have hacked Scottish | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
regiments right down. We have lost a lot of them over successive English | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
governments, so it is rich to come out and say you're going to lose the | :12:17. | :12:26. | |
Black Watch. However, having said that, defensive a big issue, it is a | :12:26. | :12:39. | |
lot of jobs are a huge part of Scottish life. I think that to | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
recreate a defence industry for Scotland or the whole issue of | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
defence is going to be extremely costly, when we do actually have | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
something that works quite well just now. And finally, the Cabinet | :12:48. | :12:49. | |
reshuffle. The former defence secretary Liam Fox, rumours of a | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
Cabinet reshuffle on Monday or Tuesday. Murray, do you think Liam | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
Fox will make a reappearance in government? I haven't the faintest | :12:54. | :13:03. | |
idea is! I imagine he must come back sometime, and Philip Hammond is not | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
the most popular defence secretary we have ever had. He was even booed | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
at the Tory conference. And Gillian? What is interesting about | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
the reshuffle is the potential for women in government. Liz truss and | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
Karen Bradley may start to move into more senior jobs. It may be a | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
welcome change to see some more women around the table. And talk of | :13:27. | :13:35. | |
one planning Minister he might go. He was bored of speeding about | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
planning applications! Thank you very much. | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
That is all from as this week. We are back at the same time next week. | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
From all others on the Sunday Politics Scotland team, enjoyed | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
afternoon. Goodbye. | :13:47. | :13:51. |