Browse content similar to 13/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this | :00:36. | :00:43. | |
morning's Sunday Politics Stakes. We'll have the new Scottish | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
Secretary, Alistair Carmichael. We'll be asking him what ease got | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
that his predecessor, Michael Moore hasn't. | :00:50. | :00:58. | |
Like a Duracell bunny, Ken Clarke just keeps going and going. He'll be | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
banging his drum for Europe. Free of the shackles of government, | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne will be with us. We'll be asking him | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
for the inside scoop. And Diane Abbott will be joining us | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
too. That nasty Ed Miliband sent her packing last week. We'll find out | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
why. And on Sunday Politics Scotland, 25 | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
years on from the iconic single Letter From America, we revisit the | :01:21. | :01:27. | |
industrial heartlands and ask, is Scottish industry still no more? | :01:27. | :01:38. | |
a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an | :01:38. | :01:45. | |
Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if their lives depended on it | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
throughout the programme. Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
to the left or right? Last week, a chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
indicate he moved back to the middle. New shadows Work and | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
after all. Here he is on the BBC earlier this morning. | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
I've one message for you and viewers. If you are a group of | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting up a | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
school in areas where you need new school place, the Labour Government | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
will be on your side. That's free schools. We are in favour of | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
enterprise and innovation. It will schools. We are in favour of | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It | :02:42. | :02:43. | |
will have properly qualified school places crisis going on. It | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
teachers in these schools. And thirdly, systems of financial | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
accountability. What is going on with the Al Madina school is because | :02:53. | :03:04. | |
of terrible mistakes with Michael Gove's policy. | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
I'm not sure if the policies have changed, the change of tone is | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
remarkable, both on welfare and free schools. A significant change of | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
tone. It was interesting the reshuffle on the Labour frontbench | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
last week was init wered as a purge of Blair rights. It seemed to be a | :03:21. | :03:28. | |
purge of anti-reform thinking. Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
different on substance but saying Labour will be tough than the Tories | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
on welfare. You've seen that clip from Tristram, free schools will be | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
allowed to be set up in areas of need. Greater oversight. But a | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
completely different change of tone, we are on the side of parents and | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
social entrepreneurs who want to set these up. A different change. Why | :03:55. | :04:02. | |
are they doing this? On education, so far the debate has been | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
polarised. You've had the Michael Gove uber reformers in the | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
department. This weekend, we've had leaked memos from one of Michael | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education. | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers. | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable. They | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
have been silent on education which is a huge policy area on the left. | :04:35. | :04:43. | |
Is this a focus group-driven change? They've seen the polls. Welfare | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
reforms are hugery popular and free schools for those who have them? You | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
defined need. It could be, we've run out of places or the existing | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
schools are so bad we need schools. If that is it, it is the same Asics | :05:41. | :05:51. | |
itsing Government policy. In they are in schools rated as | :05:51. | :05:57. | |
unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD | :06:10. | :06:19. | |
from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper | :06:19. | :06:25. | |
teaching qualifications. That could count him out. He does some | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
teaching? Independent schools do not have to have teachers with formal | :06:31. | :06:37. | |
teaching qualifications. I've never been to one? What about you? That | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
decision by Michael Gove to allow free schools to employ nonunionised | :06:43. | :06:51. | |
and non-trained people, so he has to say that. | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more | :06:59. | :07:10. | |
like Labour? Here's guiles. #4 With reshuffles, you're never | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
really certain. There's whispers, rumours, guesses. But the only way | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
to know it is underway is keeping beady eyes on a front door. Up until | :07:19. | :07:26. | |
now, the only way we knew who was in and who was out was who came walking | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
down this bit of Downing Street with a smile on their face after going to | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
it. It was an extraordinary day. I can't remember a triple decker | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
reshuffle where you've three parties changing ministerial teams at the | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
same time. The fact is that resufficient happened on Twitter. | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
slow in coming until Alastair Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
the first to be pounced on. I'm disappointed to be leaving office | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
now but pleased at what I've been able to achieve in the last couple | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
of years. Not as pleased as one imagines as the man receiving the | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
welcome that went on, and on and on... And on... And on! | :08:22. | :08:34. | |
#4 The welcomer, who was simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
in a sense seen off the premises of the Home Office in conspiracy to let | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
Norman Baker sing a tune. the Home Office in conspiracy to let | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
# Blowing hi Jude through a traffic cone... # #. | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
The brutality of the Liberal Democrats. We tend to think they are | :08:53. | :09:02. | |
herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet Minister, another minister, Jeremy | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
Browne. By lunch time, the Tory ranks were shifting too. The PM keen | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
from the north or more humble backgrounds with room for some which | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
fitted neither label but are friends of George Osborne. And, all the | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
while, those new Tory ministers were learning of Labour's changes. Labour | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight. | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing the | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
past out of the picture seemed to be the name of the day. Liam Byrne | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
moved from higher profile roles. With Diane Abbott also gone, was | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
used to mean someone who wanted Tony depends what you mean. Blair right | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain set | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
of ideologyies or ideas. There are still very much those kind of Blair | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
rights within the party. But we are seeing the group around Tony Blair | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
over. New bees were sharing the spoils of winner while ousted | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or one | :10:33. | :10:42. | |
angry ex-wife bemoaned their dismissal. | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
Disappointment in politics is disified. How much much someone | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
standing here might want it to be the case, you are unlikely to get | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
someone coming out of that do going "how could." And running off crying! | :10:56. | :11:03. | |
And the brand, spanking new Scottish Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
us from Orkney on a line that hasn't been used since the fleet was used | :11:09. | :11:16. | |
in the outbreak of World War I! I wasn't around at the time. I'm | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
hearing you loud and clear. Why have you agreed to run a department? That | :11:21. | :11:29. | |
you wanted to abolish six years ago? Hello? Maybe our connections are not | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
so great after all. Alastair Charmichael. Can you hear me? I can | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared. | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
you wanted to abolish six years ago? Because this is the, probably one of | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
the most important jobs in British politics at the moment. To ensure | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
that Scotland remains part of the UK. Even when I was talking about | :11:58. | :12:05. | |
the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs of Scotland -- representation of | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
Scotland within Whitehall, there was always a job to be done. That is | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
true in spades now. I will focus on making sure the UK Government has a | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
real voice in that debate. What have you that Michael Moore didn't have? | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
Look, I think Michael Moore did an excellent job. The work he did | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
delivering the Edinburgh agreement to ensure we got a proper, fair, | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
the Scottish Parliament was a substantial piece of work. I'm not | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
comparing myself to Michael. He's a friend of mine. I will say that as | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
we go forward into this, this is now about the actual debate itself. I | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
remain part of the UK. This isn't just some abstract debate about | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
nationhood, sovereignty, this is a real debate about people's jobs, | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
more. For that, I relish the challenge. I understand that. But if | :13:15. | :13:22. | |
you're being put in there to save the union, every pole has the no -- | :13:22. | :13:29. | |
poll has the no campaign margin alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
pretty well to save the union. I suspect you've been given the job to | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
save the Liberal Democrats in Scotland? And lieu, you misread the | :13:37. | :13:44. | |
situation if you -- Andrew, you misread the situation new think | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
anybody is going to be the person who will save the union. The people | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
who will save the union are the people of Scotland if they turn out | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
party. You came fourth in the last were even behind the Conservatives. | :14:08. | :14:15. | |
The latest poll has you still in fourth. Are you there because you're | :14:15. | :14:22. | |
a bruiser and you will pep up the Liberal Democrats opportunity in | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
Scotland. If I had a pound for everybody to referred to me as being | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
Scotland. If I had a pound for a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
sitting here this morning. I could have retired by now. The truth of | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
this, if I can address it once and for all, I have done probably one of | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
the most complex and subtle jobs in British politics for the last | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
Government. I would not have survived in that job a week, let | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
alone three-and-a-half years, if I was the sort of person who went | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
around picking unnecessary fights. So, can we just please forget about | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
this business about being a bruiser. As far as the position of the party | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
in the polls, this is true also of the referendum vote, opinion polls | :15:08. | :15:10. | |
in the polls, this is true also of are a snapshot. They are not a | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
prediction of what will happen in the future. I will be out there | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
putting the case. Neither the next election nor the referendum is one | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
or lost yet. One of the things I really want to be guarding against | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
is the complacency which says because we are a good margin ahead | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag. | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
today, 12 months out from the actual Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As | :15:36. | :15:43. | |
you know, wasn't for the Liberal Democrats. Not just talking about | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
the polls. You came fourth in the real poll in the Scottish | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
Parliamentary elections. You said you were happy to facial | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should David Cameron face him? I am happy | :15:56. | :16:04. | |
ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should to face anybody who wants to | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
debate. Should David Cameron face him? No, because that allows Alex | :16:09. | :16:17. | |
Salmond and the Scottish Nationalists to portray this as some | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
sort of contest or choice between a vision of Scottish social democracy | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
and English conservativism, which it is not. This is a debate that has to | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David | :16:31. | :16:39. | |
Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact, | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
the person who should be debating with Alex Salmond is Alistair | :16:48. | :16:54. | |
Darling. He has got a Scottish name and his family hails from the | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described | :16:58. | :17:05. | |
the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
you referring to the campaign or Alistair Darling? I was not | :17:11. | :17:18. | |
referring to Alistair Darling. I think what I was saying is that as | :17:18. | :17:25. | |
we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
are now campaigning for people 's hearts because if you look at the | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
range of papers the Government has published, it is pretty clear the | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
arguments lie in relation to the head. I am not giving up the battle | :17:44. | :17:54. | |
for the hearts and Scotland because there is a good strong case, as | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
somebody who is proud to be Scottish and to be British, for Scotland to | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
remain part of the UK. You come from an island that has eight | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
distilleries and I understand you haven't even had a single | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
celebratory drink for your new post. Not a drop has touched my lips. Not | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the 1st | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
of November, I will be doing it in aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
anybody wants to go to their website, they can donate. It is | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister | :18:37. | :18:46. | |
who many thought might get Reef -- we shuffled but didn't is Ken | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood, | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
more women and more ethnic minorities, where did you fit in? I | :18:56. | :19:04. | |
would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it is | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
difficult to replace them. I enjoy it. It is a great privilege to have | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
a role in Cabinet and I will carry on as long as David wants me to do. | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call, | :19:31. | :19:38. | |
asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my | :19:38. | :19:48. | |
role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer. | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why do | :19:57. | :20:04. | |
you keep going? What do you hope to achieve in politics? I am mostly a | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
political anorak, I have been since I was very small, by the process of | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
politics but the older I get I get more concerned about the good | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is very | :20:21. | :20:27. | |
difficult and I find it fascinating. The old argument that attracts every | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
decent person into politics, you might be able sometimes to make a | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
bit of difference, and I try to do that. I try not to hark back on my | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on | :20:44. | :20:51. | |
Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain | :20:52. | :20:58. | |
adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda | :20:58. | :21:05. | |
on Britain's membership to the EU? I am always for holding people | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
accountable to the long-term and medium term consequences of | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
decisions they take as representatives, but this is a | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
generational thing. I am in a minority now and my colleagues have | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is one | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
of the most important things in politics. It will determine | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
Britain's place in the modern world and determine whether our | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
politicians are able to look after the living standards, the economy, | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
the safety against terrorism. Last the living standards, the economy, | :21:39. | :21:46. | |
summer you said that only extreme nationalists wanted a silly EU | :21:46. | :21:54. | |
referendum. It follows your party must be full of extremely silly | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
nationalists. The people who are desperate to have a referendum are | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
all the people who actually want to leave the European Union. The | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing you | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
read in the newspaper about what the commission is or is not doing, do | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a | :22:23. | :22:30. | |
leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
there we can have a greater influence in events. That is not | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
just how the politicians get on the world stage, it is how the | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
politicians look after us when we face danger from terrorism is | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will give | :22:53. | :23:00. | |
us a referendum. I had other engagements on the Friday concerned. | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
seen voting for something your heart is not in. Let's be honest here. | :23:08. | :23:16. | |
Look, many of your colleagues I have interviewed say that if the choice | :23:16. | :23:25. | |
was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
even on the status quo, wouldn't you? I haven't spent so long | :23:34. | :23:42. | |
supporting the EU to leave now if I got chance. I think our economy is | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
much stronger than it would have been if we were outside the EU. We | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
have continued attracting investment, as in Washington last | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
week. We are trying to roll forward the prospect of free trade and I | :23:56. | :24:04. | |
have to reassure Americans that we are not likely to leave the EU to | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
make sure they will invest here. That is true but it also needs | :24:09. | :24:16. | |
reform. The cry for reform, which is echoed in other countries, | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
particularly Germany, is a good one. Even if David Cameron came back with | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct? | :24:26. | :24:34. | |
Going off to be a small economy, and one which is dwindling in comparison | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
with others, in the modern world it would be dangerous. I also think the | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
dangers of the Middle East and the dangers of some of the countries | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
between EU and Russia are considerable, we shouldn't | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
disengage. I will take that as a yes. I do think reform can | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
with me, I trust they will be persuaded when David delivers his | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
reforms. The latest poll gives Labour a ten point lead over the | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
Tories and the reason why it has a ten point lead is because UKIP are | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
up there with 18% of the vote and ten point lead is because UKIP are | :25:11. | :25:17. | |
the Tory vote has slumped in the Paul to 27%. How would you see off | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
UKIP? By saying you need a strong Paul to 27%. How would you see off | :25:21. | :25:27. | |
and effective Government. We faced terrible problems. Every Government | :25:27. | :25:35. | |
I have been in has been behind in the polls. This Government is not as | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
popular as the previous Government I have served in under the three | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
previous prime ministers. When you get an election, people have to ask | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this | :25:47. | :25:54. | |
country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not see | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
off UKIP. People will not listen to that. When people answer an opinion | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
poll, they tell you how annoyed they are by something that has recently | :26:11. | :26:17. | |
upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you | :26:22. | :26:29. | |
have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern | :26:29. | :26:37. | |
us? They did take over a calamitous situation, and there are very | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
important problems to be decided going forward. UKIP represents | :26:42. | :26:49. | |
anti-immigration, anti-foreigners, anti-Europe, anti-politics but I | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
don't think it will get 18% of the opinion -- the polls in any | :26:53. | :27:00. | |
election. Thank you. Once upon a time, a | :27:00. | :27:25. | |
politician whose career ended in disgrace might choose to lie low for | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
a while, perhaps to spend a bit more time tending the tulips and doing | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
prison only five months ago but the former Energy Secretary is already | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
back in the public eye - a column in the Guardian, a job with a renewable | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
energy firm, even the odd TV interview. So is he working on a | :27:42. | :27:44. | |
political rehabilitation? Chris Huhne, welcome to the Sunday | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
Politics. The answer to that is clearly know, and thank you for | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
inviting me back. You have set your career in politics is over so what | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
does the future hold for you? I am happy doing what I am doing, I am | :27:52. | :27:58. | |
passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
on that front in terms of business and work for think tanks and | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
non-governmental organisations, and I am doing a column for the Guardian | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
on Mondays. You obviously get a lot of material from the Sunday Politics | :28:13. | :28:20. | |
to write about. Have you embarked on political rehabilitation? It was | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
clear from the point of view of the George when I was sentenced, he | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
said, this is not about rehabilitating you, because I had | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
not offended for ten years, it was actually about stopping people like | :28:33. | :28:34. | |
not offended for ten years, it was you, Andrew, Ron doing the same | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why the | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
prosecution was brought. I had not offended for ten years on this, | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
either in terms of speeding points... But you are out to | :28:49. | :28:56. | |
rehabilitate yourself in the public? I have been a journalist, | :28:56. | :29:17. | |
rehabilitate yourself in the public? coalition to the bitter end? Or | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
should they re-establish their own identity? My view is that the | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are | :29:24. | :29:31. | |
going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib | :29:31. | :29:37. | |
Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, 15 seats? I think it will be an | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
interesting election because I think you will have essentially three | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
party leaders, all of whom are unpopular. It is almost | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
unprecedented that they have negative ratings so it will be a | :29:50. | :29:56. | |
battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view, | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't | :30:02. | :30:11. | |
you? It is far too early to say. If the Liberal Democrats do badly in | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
next year's European elections, you could come fourth on fifth behind | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
the Greens. Will Nick Clegg's leadership be in jeopardy? I've been | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
in countless cycles where we've had very low poll ratings. The normal | :30:27. | :30:33. | |
pickup to the subsequent general election on average has been 10 | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
percentage points. So he's not in jeopardy? I think Nick will be there | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
at the next general election. I think he'll lead the party into the | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most | :30:46. | :30:53. | |
people think. If we are heading for another hung Parliament, which is | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
what the Liberal Democrats want. Let's be honest, you'd rather be in | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
coalition with the Labour Party than have a repeat of the Conservatives? | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
One of the key things I sawed to colleagues, whatever your personal | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
preference, I used to be a Labour Party member, you can derive from | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
that I'm on the left of centre of the party. I always said to my | :31:13. | :31:20. | |
colleagues in the party, it is absolutely crucial to remember that | :31:20. | :31:20. | |
colleagues in the party, it is the we are in politics because we | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
are Liberal Democrats, not because we are either Conservatives or | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
second best Labour. If you don't take that view, you don't have any | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
bargaining position when it You said you are keeping up your | :31:30. | :32:07. | |
interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise a | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
temporary price freeze with Mike we have posturing on energy prices. It | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
is not essential policy. It was tried in California in 2001, one of | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
the factors which led to blackout. We have the Prime Minister promising | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
we should shift everyone onto the lowest possible tariff which would | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
mean all the big six on one tariff, so we are getting populist | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
claptrap. So you are against the price freeze? It is a bad idea when | :32:39. | :32:45. | |
we are trying to encourage investment and when the market can | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
give us some of the lowest gas and liquidity prices in Europe. Britain | :32:49. | :32:56. | |
has some of the lowest. The other European prices are only higher | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
because they put more taxes on it. Base prices are among the highest in | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
Europe. If you look at new comparisons in terms of what goes | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
out to households, the reality... That is after taxes. Conservatives | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
claim there are taxes being put on our energy. You are one of the | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
people responsible for long ring us with these taxes which are adding | :33:21. | :33:27. | |
over £100 to the average build. Why don't you cut some of these taxes | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
and make it cheaper? That is nonsense and that is coming from | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
people like George Osborne who should know better, because one | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
hypocrisy of this is that the one person in the government who has | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
added green taxes was George Osborne with that carbon price floor. We put | :33:43. | :33:51. | |
it into the coalition agreement because the Conservatives wanted it. | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
The Lib Dems did not want it, we do not needed to drive | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
decarbonisation, it was a revenue raising measure by the Tories and it | :34:00. | :34:07. | |
set of a load of hair is about green taxes which are now coming home to | :34:07. | :34:15. | |
roost. You are a big supporter of Leveson style press regulation, so | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
will you stop writing for the Guardian if it refuses to sign up to | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
the charter? I think that is neither here nor there. The Guardian is a | :34:25. | :34:32. | |
great platform. If it doesn't sign up to what you believe in, will you | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
stop supporting it? I am sure they will let me make that point. I think | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
newspapers will sign up to it because they have a collapse in | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
public trust and confidence unparalleled for every other | :34:46. | :34:52. | |
business. They need a third-party endorsement to say they have cleaned | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
up their act and the going to get trust back, and they will. When they | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
haven't signed up, you can come back and talk about it. You are watching | :35:01. | :35:08. | |
Sunday Politics. Good morning, and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
Coming up on the programme: More from the new Secretary of State for | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
Scotland and the challenges facing him over the next year. | :35:15. | :35:21. | |
And is this just a nostalgic anthem from the '80s? Or 25 years on, has | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
there been such a dramatic change in Scotland's industrial landscape? | :35:25. | :35:31. | |
Alistair Carmichael is the UK government's new man in Scotland, or | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
Scotland's new man in the UK Government, depending on your | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
viewpoint. As he gets to grips with the job, Mr Carmichael will be | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
assessing the challenges ahead. So what are they? Andrew Kerr reports. | :35:41. | :35:53. | |
The office of Secretary of State for Scotland doesn't often make it into | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
the new key news, let alone comedy shows. There was another man | :35:58. | :36:05. | |
promoted in this reshuffle, Alistair Carmichael who is now Secretary of | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
State for Scotland, and I would remember his name, anyone who | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
watches pointless, because in 18 months he will be an answer. | :36:13. | :36:20. | |
Alistair Carmichael has been passed over twice that now he has the job, | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
he is Chief Whip, in that position he would not be known to the public, | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
that is behind-the-scenes and any Chief Whip would find that, but now | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
he will be in the spotlight and be interested to see what he does. | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
Third time lucky perhaps, a Secretary of State who can last the | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
course. After moving on from Nick Clegg, he is getting to grips with | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
his office and the challenges he faces, especially how the referendum | :36:49. | :36:55. | |
debate is directed. I think his main challenge in the next 12 months is | :36:55. | :37:01. | |
to argue the case for the union from a perhaps more colourful or in a | :37:01. | :37:09. | |
more colourful way than it has been argued so far. I think Carmichael | :37:09. | :37:16. | |
will need to bring into the argument for the union in Scotland the other | :37:16. | :37:25. | |
parts of the UK. At the Royal heart of the UK, the Scottish secretary | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
had his first front row engagement at Buckingham Palace this week for | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
the Batten relay. In the referendum race, he is running side-by-side | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
with Labour and Tory colleagues and will have to form close relations | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
with key figures in Better Together. He will also have to manage | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
perceptions of visiting UK ministers. He has clearly clocked | :37:47. | :37:55. | |
what the problem is, which is having ministers like Philip Hammond | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
appearing to give lectures to Scots on how they should run their | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
affairs, but saying he. These lecture tours is one thing. Delivery | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
is another, and I don't think he will be able to stop George Osborne | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
giving Scots lectures on whether they can use the pound after | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
independence. Perhaps that is a mountain to climb of though that | :38:17. | :38:24. | |
brings its own problems. Challenge three, how to reconcile long-held | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
political views in the context of the referendum debate. Liberal | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
Democrats have been Federalists for a long time. They have argued that | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
the constitution needs to move on and more powers should be given to | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
Scotland, so it will be interesting to see what role he plays in the | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
debate. Well he pushes Tory colleagues at Westminster to come up | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
with a scheme to make some kind of concrete alternative to | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
independence, so I think he may be caught between a rock and a hard | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
place between David Cameron and Alex Salmond. There are plenty of issues | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
for Mr Carmichael to grapple with. He has a year to get them right. If | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
he doesn't, he could be out of a job. In our Orkney studio is the man | :39:12. | :39:20. | |
himself. Good afternoon. You talked earlier about putting passion in the | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
debate. At the Scottish office been too conciliatory with the SNP and | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
the Scottish Government? We have a day-to-day job to do in terms of | :39:30. | :39:36. | |
managing Scotland's reputation in Whitehall and Westminster, so in | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
that you have to be considered very, but in the wider little debate, we | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
are entering a new phase. We are now in the countdown to the day which | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
matters and I think all parties need to put more spark and passion into | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
this debate, but let me be clear. This is not just about politicians, | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
because politicians are alone cannot run this debating. We need to hear | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
from teachers, nurses, doctors, lawyers, from business people, from | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
people looking to start up their own business, the widest possible range | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
of people in Scotland have got to find a voice in this debating which | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
I don't think we have had yet. When that happens you will see more | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
colour coming into the debate. Why do you think they have not been | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
taking part in the debate? Has been bogged down in political | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
technicalities? I think the debate has been ridiculously prolonged. I | :40:35. | :40:44. | |
feel as if this is already gone on my entire adult life and we still | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
have 12 months until we get to the polling booth. I would not have | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
foreseen the need for a campaign of this length. That was Alex | :40:54. | :41:02. | |
Salmond's choice, not ours. I don't know that politicians necessarily | :41:02. | :41:10. | |
can do with an their own, but need to bring in a wider range of people | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
and I really want the widest possible range. I had a lunch with | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
businessmen in Edinburgh who all told me they had real concerns about | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
what could happen if we did vote yes. I think they need to stop | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
telling me that and start telling the rest of the country. Why hasn't | :41:29. | :41:36. | |
that happened? I think it will happen now as mines concentrate | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
closer to the day. If there is a yes vote, you follow on from what | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
Michael Morris said, that that would be your moment to start negotiating | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
for Scotland? I fight for Scotland every day, and I have done. What | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
would be your position after a yes vote? I would take the same | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
position. I see no real need to move from that, but that is a hypothesis | :42:01. | :42:08. | |
on top of a supposition. What we need to be doing is instead of | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
coming up with a fantasy structure about how we would negotiate after a | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
yes vote, we ought to be getting in there, having the debate, explaining | :42:20. | :42:27. | |
the issues about jobs, mortgages, the role we can have in the rest of | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
the world, rather than obsessing with things that might interest | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
journalists and politicians but are not what concern the public. Some of | :42:36. | :42:43. | |
those issues were raised by your Cabinet colleagues when they came | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
north recently. Which of them have been arrogant in the way they | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
delivered their message? Less top put words in my mouth. I never said | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
anyone had been arrogant when they came north. You accept that, surely. | :42:55. | :43:05. | |
Sorry, I've just lost any sound. Can you still hear me? I can hear you | :43:05. | :43:14. | |
again. Can I just explain this question about arrogance. What I was | :43:14. | :43:21. | |
talking about when I said we shouldn't all we see coming to | :43:21. | :43:27. | |
Scotland as a lecture tour is that a great deal is happening in Scotland | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
from which they can learn, and one very small example, the reader may | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
was talking this week about the National crime agency -- Theresa | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
May. Opportunities to tackle organised crime across the UK is an | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
important argument in this referendum, but she also said this | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
is something that could be used to tackle gang violence. I said to her | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
that is great, there is a great story about what Strathclyde Police | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
were doing in Glasgow in tackling gang violence, so please come up, | :44:04. | :44:10. | |
hear what they are doing and be ready to take it away and | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
implemented or to borrow on our experience. We are all still part of | :44:14. | :44:22. | |
the UK, and she said she knew about that work, and she had had | :44:22. | :44:28. | |
Strathclyde Police don't, but there was a chance for her to come to | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
Scotland in future. Has Whitehall got it wrong when it | :44:30. | :44:38. | |
talks about things like fast lane still being part of the geographical | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
rest of the UK if Scotland voted yes? I think perhaps we occasionally | :44:42. | :44:50. | |
have opened up an opportunity of ourselves or our opponents, rather, | :44:50. | :44:56. | |
to portray us in a negative light. But I think if you look across the | :44:56. | :45:02. | |
piece, five or six papers, there has been a substantial well referenced | :45:02. | :45:08. | |
pieces of work and I think that actually you can contrast that very | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
well with the approach that is being taken to the campaign by the yes | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
campaign which has been simple -- simply to assert things left, right | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
and centre. I go back to my time working as a lawyer. It is the | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
moment that every lawyer dreads which is when the sheriff pulls the | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
glasses down over his nose and says, what is your authority for that | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
proposition Mr Carmichael? The SNP, when they are asserting a position, | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
have got no authority. They say similar things about the papers that | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
Westminster producers. The White Paper is coming out. It is therefore | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
people to judge for themselves. He talked earlier in your interview... | :45:50. | :45:58. | |
You talked about your previous job as chief whip being complex and | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
subtle. What sort of subtleties will you bring to the White Paper when it | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
comes out from the Scottish Government as that will be a big bit | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
of work? I am losing a feed so did not quite the question. In terms of | :46:11. | :46:19. | |
the White Paper, it remains to be seen what is in it, I hope it is | :46:19. | :46:24. | |
more substantial than everything we have seen from the campaign so far | :46:24. | :46:31. | |
but I am not holding good faith. I get the feeling that as we enter the | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
next 12 months in terms of this being a battle between the arguments | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
of the head and of the heart, in terms of the arguments of the head, | :46:41. | :46:48. | |
then we are in a dominant position. Will there be a united front from | :46:48. | :46:55. | |
your party and your Better Together partners on what happens if there is | :46:55. | :46:56. | |
your party and your Better Together a no vote? I hope there will be a | :46:56. | :47:03. | |
united front in as much as we will all recognise that the clear will of | :47:03. | :47:11. | |
the Scottish people, that there should be extra powers... Will you | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
be bringing them together to get a united position? That is an | :47:15. | :47:21. | |
important part of it and also I would like to see the SNP as part of | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
that, because they have an important voice, an important role to play. If | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
you look back over the recent history, the SNP have always said on | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
the Constitutional Convention, we don't want to be part of that, we | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
are only interested in independence. On the commission that delivered | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
substantial extra powers to the parliament, they said exactly the | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
same sort of thing again. This time, once we have settled the | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
independence question, there will be no other way for the SNP to go. They | :47:51. | :47:58. | |
will have to be part... In regards to people you are working with... I | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
just want to ask, we are running out of time. Liberal home rule, I think | :48:04. | :48:10. | |
there will be a healthy influence and I welcome their participation. | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
Will there be a united position from the parties in Better Together ahead | :48:15. | :48:21. | |
of the referendum? You have to ask the other parties as well as the | :48:21. | :48:29. | |
might -- as well as myself. You will have a united position in as much as | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
there will be a wish to see extra powers, I do believe that. I don't | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
believe that you can -- don't think you can expect a specification of | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
what is powers will be. That is a process we will have to go through | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
once we have settled the independence question. Thank you for | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
joining us and thank you for bearing with us over the technical glitches. | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
Thank you. Last night, the Proclaimers played | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
Glasgow landmark 25 years since they broke through with Letter From | :49:02. | :49:09. | |
America. Is linked the Highland Clearances with the industrial | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
shutdown of the Thatcher era. We looked at the towns that are | :49:15. | :49:16. | |
supposed to be no more. We are still singing passionately | :49:16. | :49:28. | |
about industrial devastation in a song inspired by Tessa at Highland | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
has been cleared off their land. It was the painting that I thought | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
about. It was the contrast with that, obviously with the Clearances | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
of the 19th century and what was happening in the late 70s and 80s. | :49:43. | :49:50. | |
That is where it came from. Those -- it could have been many towns. It | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
could have been Kilmarnock come that. Those towns either had very | :49:53. | :50:00. | |
heavy job losses suddenly or unemployment blackspot and work | :50:00. | :50:06. | |
exploiting a lot of people. Those four sounded better going together | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
than others. That was 25 years ago. What has happened since? What does | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
it tell us about the Scottish economy? Figure two. -- let's take a | :50:15. | :50:23. | |
tour. Bathgate. I went to the site of a | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
plant where thousands of workers made trucks and tractors to hear | :50:27. | :50:35. | |
from locals. We knew what was going to happen. As closing the same | :50:35. | :50:42. | |
time. It was devastating. In fact, the unemployment rate went up to | :50:42. | :50:50. | |
about 25% in some areas. I dismember a civil servant at that time saying | :50:50. | :50:58. | |
to me, Mr Swan, -- I remember a civil servant. I can set up an | :50:58. | :51:00. | |
infrastructure that will allow us to civil servant. I can set up an | :51:00. | :51:08. | |
get more work back in full and will employ your sons and daughters. That | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
is what happened. But it took us 15 years to balance the economy out | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
again. The actual jobs came here, most left again. The rail line to | :51:19. | :51:25. | |
Edinburgh reopened. I think that may have made a big difference, | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
certainly after the factory closing, the link was established in | :51:30. | :51:37. | |
1986 to Edinburgh. Many of the people use Bathgate as a commuter | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
town, like the suburbs of London, people live here and it is more | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
affordable housing and Glasgow or Edinburgh. Not far from here, is | :51:47. | :51:55. | |
Broxburn. The meat... So biggest closure that we have seen. All of | :51:55. | :52:03. | |
the interesting factors is that the workforce were from Poland and | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
Lithuania and Estonia. In ways that few could have foreseen before the | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
Iron Curtain came down, that helps ensure that the tide of immigration | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
out of Scotland has been turned. What about the Linwood? It is home | :52:17. | :52:23. | |
to a car factory, birthplace of the humble Imp. On that site, the | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
Phoenix business Park, risen from the ashes and tells us a lot about | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
the modern economy. Where they made cars, there are now 18 dealerships. | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
My father worked here. Of course, the Proclaimers song when they sung | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
Linwood no more, it's resonated with me. That was a tragic time all of | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
the families around here. I saw my father go downhill in a year, he was | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
unemployed. I saw him aged ten or 15 years. I always felt I wanted to | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
have my own business so I could in some way be of control -- in control | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
of my destiny and so I could look at a team of people and make sure they | :53:04. | :53:10. | |
don't have to go through this. On this site, there are probably 4000 | :53:10. | :53:16. | |
that worked here at the time. I think I should write to the | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
Proclaimers and tell them there is a Linwood. Where next? Used to five. | :53:19. | :53:25. | |
This is where they used to ship coal from Fife and then they built | :53:26. | :53:31. | |
jackets for North Sea platforms until this yard went silent. Then | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
came a second wind from North Sea oil and gas and a new wave of | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
renewable energy. So, methyl no more, far from it. This looks like a | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
next big thing in the Scottish economy. This was a successful you | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
are operated by many different companies. The yard was lying empty | :53:51. | :53:57. | |
for about seven years. Since then, with renewables and oil and gas, we | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
have generated employment for around 800 people with potential to | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
increase. This is 12,000 tonnes of oil platform bound for deep water, | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
there are apprentices being taken on, but the welding skills, they had | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
to hire from Poland. A test turbine is being put in by Samsung which | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
hopes to build more of them. Renewables are very important. We | :54:21. | :54:27. | |
will probably be Europe's leader in terms of manufacture of jackets for | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
offshore wind, we have an ambition to build new factories here and have | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
the capacity to build 150 jackets a year. What is delaying things? | :54:36. | :54:43. | |
Scottish independence, uncertainty, approval with EEM R and a clear | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
understanding of what is going to happen with renewables in the | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
future. Irvin in Ayrshire was the final town that was supposed to be | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
no more and it was a new town, it was not so much bigger dishes | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
clearing out, it was its young people who relax jobs. One went off | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
to Glasgow to study law. She was back recently to campaign for | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
independence. Irvin was the big metropolis, it was where you went on | :55:10. | :55:17. | |
a Saturday night. Went to the leisure centre which when I was | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
growing up was the first of its kind in Scotland. At the time of the | :55:21. | :55:29. | |
Proclaimers song, I was about 18. So when they were singing about your | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
town being no more, did that ring true to you? In a way. I had already | :55:33. | :55:41. | |
joined the SNP by then and the Proclaimers delivered this anthem | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
for the age. Unemployment was high and one of the things I strongly | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
from being at school was this fear of unemployment, because as I | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
remember it back then, unemployment was something that was terminal. If | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
you did not get a job or you lost a job, or it felt as if there could be | :55:58. | :56:07. | |
no hope of getting another one. How do you feel about opportunities now? | :56:07. | :56:17. | |
I think there are opportunities in Irvin. The council are working hard | :56:17. | :56:25. | |
to make sure that there are economic it -- opportunities here. There is a | :56:25. | :56:32. | |
big Pharma company. Epic life sciences -- a big life sciences | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
presents. For someone like my nephew, he is interested in | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
sciences, there are opportunities. The town centre regeneration fits | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
into this journey through Scotland and the time. What I have found is | :56:45. | :56:50. | |
an economy and people who have shown flexibility and resilience. We are | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
more skilled and more resourceful. Government made a difference through | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
building infrastructure for new ones. People have become more mobile | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
around the country and between countries. I think the song has | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
aged, there is no doubt about that. The world is different. Scotland | :57:07. | :57:08. | |
aged, there is no doubt about that. thankfully is a better place. I | :57:08. | :57:14. | |
think it feels more modern, it feels like it attitudes have moved on in | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
terms of things. But in terms of people being able to get work, I | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
wonder how much difference there is. My kids now, leaving school, trying | :57:22. | :57:30. | |
to get full-time work is very difficult. | :57:30. | :57:52. | |
Dreamy today is the economic commentator Alf Young and the | :57:52. | :57:59. | |
Economist Ailsa McKay from Glasgow can and university. Alf Young, | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
unemployment whited those areas but when we see the regeneration, the | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
change in the workforce, could it be argued as some said that | :58:09. | :58:11. | |
unemployment was a price worth paying? I think it took a very long | :58:11. | :58:19. | |
time to pay that price and a lot of people never really recovered from | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
it. I noted that Harry Burns, the senior medical figure in Scotland, | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
was saying that loss of industry, that loss of reason for being is a | :58:27. | :58:36. | |
major factor. Other problems that Scotland still try and combat in | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
terms of physical and mental health and the rest of it, but clearly a | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
lot of these places found a new future, there is no doubt about | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
that. But it took time. It took other hiccups along the way, | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
Bathgate had the car plant, it lost that. It then had bowed to roll up | :58:53. | :59:00. | |
making mobile phones, it lost that. There was a big silicon chip flat -- | :59:00. | :59:07. | |
chip plant, it is now a distribution centre for Tesco. What has come out | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
of it all is not making so many things, but being a service economy. | :59:10. | :59:15. | |
Being dependent on what other people make and what they will sell at | :59:15. | :59:20. | |
that. We have not been that good, I think at regenerating the kind of | :59:20. | :59:25. | |
large-scale jobs -- job opportunities that would employ a | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
lot of people out with service call centres and that kind of thing. How | :59:29. | :59:34. | |
important are those large scale industries for a community's | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
self-worth? These big factories would be the heart of these | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
communities. We are now hearing that Bathgate is a commuter town. | :59:43. | :59:49. | |
Absolutely, I think your piece referred to the resilience of | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
families and local communities. Don't know about the changing face | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
of industry, but the changing face of the entertainment industry, I was | :59:56. | :00:02. | |
fortunate enough to see the Proclaimers last night and the | :00:02. | :00:07. | |
message when they played Letter From America was just as poignant as 25 | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
years ago as we are still living with the consequences. The | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
consequences are dire. Because of the changing face of the public | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
sector versus the private sector and the lack of investment in the public | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
sector means that these families that did pick up the pieces when | :00:23. | :00:30. | |
women went out to work can no longer use that Avenue, women cannot find | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
work in the public sector any more in these areas. How much were these | :00:33. | :00:42. | |
changes are about political ideology and how much were they about changes | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
in the goods and services people wanted? A lot of it was about a | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
government that the side of that investing in all those old | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
industries like shipbuilding was no longer a price worth paying, so they | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
tried to restructure. The other thing we lost, and one of the things | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
I remember with great affection was a time when women in Greenock took | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
over a jean factory in the early 1980s, and Helen Monaghan and her | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
friends took over the factory and fought for their jobs, and there was | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
a kind of resilience about ordinary working people and what they thought | :01:21. | :01:27. | |
their claim to a role in society was, that seems to me to have | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
disappeared. I suppose there is also that issued that we focused on these | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
areas that have regenerated but other areas are still struggling, | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
parts of air sure that have not recovered from the collapse of | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
mining. Yes, your peace was quite optimistic, but Alf is right, one | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
thing we need to think about is the role of the public sector and the | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
ideology that forms thinking about its role, and it is not the enemy of | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
economic growth. At the concert last night, I felt like 25 years ago the | :02:00. | :02:08. | |
ideology reforming our economic policy is the same as the idea that | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
form economic policy them. It is not just about global conditions but | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
ideology in the free market of the public sector is the enemy of the | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
economy. We need to move beyond that thinking and that is the challenge | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
for the government, to talk about ideologies and frame the big picture | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
for Scotland. How much has the workforce change? We now see | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
immigration into Scotland that maybe we didn't 25 years ago, especially | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
with Polish workers and other communities coming here, so the | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
workforce is dynamic. It is, but it is also atomised, especially for | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
young people with no degree or great skills, finding meaningful work is | :02:52. | :02:58. | |
difficult. There are great ambiguities about where we are and I | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
suppose it is ambiguities that release back to that which in | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
Douglas's the long, that Nicholl painted, because the man on that | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
note, you don't know whether he is regretting what he is leaving behind | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
in the clearances or where he is going or what he is doing next, and | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
I think we are still with that ambiguity about what the future | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
holds, especially for the next generation. I think uncertainty was | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
mentioned in your peace, and there is uncertainty for young women. | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
Modern apprenticeships are creating jobs but the jobs for young men. | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
Young women are losing jobs and middle-aged women are losing jobs | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
that will never come back because the public sector has been | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
decimated, and that is what a lot of families in the 1980s relied on and | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
can no longer rely on now. Thank you both very much. You're watching | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
Sunday Politics Scotland from the BBC. | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
Still to come: a look at the week ahead with Simon Johnson from The | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
Daily Telegraph and veteran political campaigner Isobel Lindsay. | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
But first, let's cross to Andrew Kerr for the latest news from | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
Reporting Scotland. A murder investigation is under way | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
after a fire in a Stirling hair dressing salon. 46-year-old Ahdieh | :04:11. | :04:18. | |
Yazdanparast died in hospital late last night, following the blaze at | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
Venus Hair and Beauty. A man was also seriously injured in the fire, | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
which started in the cellar. Police say they're not looking for anyone | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
else in connection with the incident. | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
20 charities and poverty campaigners are joining together to raise | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
awareness about deprivation. It's estimated 200,000 children are | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
living below the bread line, with many going hungry. The organisation | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
Children in Scotland claims the situation is getting worse. These | :04:41. | :04:50. | |
problems have been with us for decades and we really need some | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
political will, but well at every level. Charities like mine, | :04:54. | :05:03. | |
organisations that if they say they care for children, then we have to | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
think about what more we can do to invest in those areas and those | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
families, and that might be at a cost to others, but I think now is | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
the time when we have to realise we cannot go on. | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
A valuable bronze artwork by Henry Moore has been stolen from an open | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
air sculpture park in Dumfries and Galloway. Standing Figure was | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
created in 1950, one of four Moore pieces at the sculpture park by the | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
Glenkiln Reservoir near Shawhead. Police say it's worth a high value | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
and are appealing for witnesses. Let's look at the weather. Settled | :05:30. | :05:39. | |
as we head into Sunday afternoon, but a clearly look for many with | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
this big band of cloud across other in Scotland, lovely sunshine through | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
premature and the West Highlands, and that is how it will stay this | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
afternoon. Cloud in the East producing rain towards the | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
south-east, especially extending up towards Aberdeenshire later. Cool | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
under that cloud, breezy for the south-east, lighter winds in the | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
West and no reason why we shouldn't see 12 or 13 for the North West | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
Highlands. By next update is at 6:10pm. Soon, we will discuss the | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
Highlands. By next update is at big events coming up at Holyrood, | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
but first let's look back at the week in 60 seconds. | :06:18. | :06:27. | |
Owners of the Grangemouth oil refinery have urged workers not to | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
go ahead with a planned strike, warning it could shut most of | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
Scotland. The Queen's Batten relay has begun | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
its tour of Commonwealth countries. It will return to Scotland for a 40 | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
day tour ahead of next summer's games. | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
The Scottish Government is to take Prestwick airport into public | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
ownership after the current owners failed to find a buyer. It has been | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
losing £2 million a year. Sir Menzies Campbell, the former | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
Liberal Democrat leader says he will stand down at the next general | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
election. Professor peter Higgs was awarded | :07:06. | :07:13. | |
the Nobel Prize for physics, having been recognised for his work on the | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
Higgs boson particle. And I'm delighted and rather relieved it is | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
all over, because it has been a long time coming. | :07:23. | :07:31. | |
If that was the week that was, let's turn to the week ahead. With me this | :07:31. | :07:40. | |
week, Simon Johnson, Scottish political editor of the Daily | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
Telegraph, and the vice-chair of Scottish CND, Isobel Lindsay. We | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
were talking to Alistair Carmichael earlier. He was calling for more | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
ordinary people to become involved in the independence debate. Given | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
your involved with women for independence, is there a grassroots | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
campaign that perhaps politicians are missing out on? Yes, the DS site | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
has great strength in terms of the community, especially last Sunday | :08:08. | :08:15. | |
night I was at a meeting and you had 120 turning out to a yes meeting. | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
Throughout the country, the Yes campaign struggles with the media | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
but it has a lot of strength in terms of the community and activity, | :08:24. | :08:32. | |
and that will continue and build. Is that despite politicians goes like | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
I've they failing to engage people? My personal view is that a lot of | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
people are sick and tired of the referendum. We still have a year to | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
go and people outside the Holyrood bubble have been saying we are still | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
talking about this, in the last six weeks all these issues will come to | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
the poor and we will have debates and a serious look at the | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
proposition from each side, but the referendum campaign is so long but I | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
think a lot of people are sick and tired of it already. There is a | :09:05. | :09:12. | |
referendum story in Scotland on Sunday today, saying a former First | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
Minister has backed an SNP appealed to political rivals for grandees | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
like him and Jack McConnell to become part of the negotiating | :09:20. | :09:28. | |
campaign it is yes vote. You think others will follow suit? No, Henry | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
is going on a political journey and he has made a series of | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
interventions that have been helpful to nationalists. It is a bit of | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
mischief. You are talking about something that if you look at | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
opinion polls on Friday, 50% voting no, 28% yes, so you might as well as | :09:47. | :09:54. | |
me what kind of Lamborghini I would buy if I won the lottery, . In terms | :09:54. | :10:02. | |
of what might happen after a yes vote, can you understand why those | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
supporting the union do not want to engage? Yes, because as soon as you | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
get people focused on the exciting things we could do with | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
independence, you start getting people in gay in that very campaign, | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
and this is what the no side doesn't want. They want to keep people fixed | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
on the negative. Once you turn to the positive, it is a game for the | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
yes people, and I don't think we will have any difficulty think | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
Scottish grandees, although I hope we will be careful that ordinary | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
Scots also get engaged in transition processes, but if there was a yes | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
vote, no shortage of people prepared to get involved in creating a new | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
society in Scotland. But this is something the no side will not | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
really discuss. No, because by discussing it, and this is what | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
nationalists want to happen, you make it seem like there is an | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
inevitability about of it, it is more likely to happen than it is, so | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
they will not play into that agenda and will stay away from that. Let's | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
talk about another story, this strike next week at the Grangemouth | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
chemical plant, 48 hours from next Sunday. How concerned should | :11:22. | :11:30. | |
Scotland be about this? I gather there are enough reserves for the | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
strike next week in a few days, but it is concerning because the | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
management and workers seem at loggerheads with each other, and the | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
language that is being used, blackmail and things like that, you | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
want them to knock some heads together or get some cooler heads | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
and say, this is millions of pounds for the economy, which is still in | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
recovery, people trying to get to work across the country, you have a | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
responsibility to reach an agreement, and people will find it | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
difficult to understand that this is being considered over what seems to | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
be an issue regarding an individual convener in there. It seems out of | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
proportion to the problem, and I hope cooler heads prevail. A | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
difficult one for politicians because the do not want to become | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
involved in the dispute with they are trying to negotiate the future | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
of this plan. It is difficult to understand what the owners are up to | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
because they seem to want to have a strike. Obviously they want to | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
reduce their costs, they want concessions from the unions, but why | :12:36. | :12:44. | |
would you pick on a shop stewards convener on disciplinary action on a | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
comparatively minor issue, knowing this will provoke the union into | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
taking action? Why pick on that issue? Why not just say they want | :12:53. | :13:00. | |
negotiations on how they can help to make the plant more viable and get | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
into constructive discussion, but by persisting on that disciplinary | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
action, they seem to want to be provoking a strike. Next week, we | :13:09. | :13:16. | |
have the SNP conference. What do the SNP have to do regards | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
independence? Salmond had a difficult balancing act. Polls are | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
great for them at the moment but he needs to say we can turn this | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
around, get them fired up, it also needs to be speaking out to people | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
in the real world and try to paint a vision for them of what independent | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
Scotland might be, because it has been quite scatter-gun. We will | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
leave it there, but thank you both for coming to speak to us. That is | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
all from us this week. We are back at 11am next week. Goodbye, and | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
enjoy your Sunday. | :13:52. | :13:54. |