18/03/2012 Sunday Politics South East


18/03/2012

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Hello, this is the news in the south-east. Coming up a blast from

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the past or a future sense of energy?

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We examine the pros and cons of making nuclear a priority in the

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south-east. With me in the studio is Conservative MP Gordon Henderson

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and the newly and winter and leader-in-waiting of Brighton and

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Hove City Council, the Green Party's Jason. Thank you for being

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with us. A couple of weeks, we brought you news of a possible late

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night levy for bars and clubs open after midnight. We now know Sussex

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police are in favour of the idea. Councils would accept the levy and

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it would help pay for police costs associated with binge drinking. Now,

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Brighton has an estimated alcohol cost of �100 million a year. Jason,

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it is unsurprising police want a bit of money to help them with this.

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Why don't you agree it is a good idea? Well, obviously police are

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struggling with cuts, but what we know from the trade in Brighton and

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Hove is the licensing industry is already struggling to make ends

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meet and this could push a lot of them over the edge. We think there

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is a middle ground to find. Even �1,500 a year? Some of them are

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really struggling, and we are seeing people buying the drinks at

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home. They buy their drinks on the supermarket and don't actually buy

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drinks in the clubs, so as to -- so they are struggling to make ends

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meet. Gordon, you have worked in the industry. Yes, all are not

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drinking! Where drinkers cause a problem, they should contribute,

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shouldn't a? I am not a great believer of additional taxes and I

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would certainly support this levy if it was going to be across a

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whole industry. But many of our pubs are really struggling at the

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moment. In the bigger cities, however, we do have a problem with

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alcohol-fuelled violence and binge drinking, so we do have to do

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something to tackle that. My own view is there are probably enough

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laws available to the police to come down on it anyway. So I'm not

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entirely in support of a levy, because as Jason said it would just

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push some people into bankruptcy. However, if this is going to stop

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violence, I think we should at least look at it. OK, more on that

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shortly. Now, would you want a nuclear power station as a

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neighbour? One council wants one right in their backyard. Last week,

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the government said a new plant threatens environmental damage to

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the neighbourhood. The existing nuclear power station is being

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wound down, but with locals Dean and climate change a bigger risk to

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us all, should the government changed its mind and build another

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Dungeness power station is on the South Kent coast. One is due to

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stop generating power in 2018, the other is already been

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decommissioned. Most existing operations across the country are

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scheduled to be closed within the next decade, and the only way

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nuclear power can continue his if new plants are built. But whilst

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the government has earmarked new sites, Dungeness is not one of them.

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A growing number of voices, including the local MP as well as

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councils, think the government should change its mind. I think it

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is the wrong decision. The current power station employs 500 people

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directly on the site, the nuclear industry employs 1,000 people in my

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constituency. That is a lot of jobs in an area of relatively high

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unemployment for the south-east. I think Dungeness is a good site, it

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is in an area of high energy demand and can produce more than enough

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electricity for the whole of Kent, so it makes sense. It seems a shame

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that we may end up importing nuclear energy from under the sea

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in France. Whilst nuclear power stations are expensive to build,

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some say they are cost-effective and necessary. One such supporter

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is Margaret Thatcher's former press secretary. Nuclear energy on the

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government's own predictions is the cheapest form of electricity

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generation. On the government's own projections. And that takes into

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account wind, renewables, gas and coal. And as that also take into

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account the building of a new plant and the decommissioning? Yes, it is

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the total cost. Frankly, Nuclear is a poor man's friend. And keeping it

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electricity down there would be beneficial. In Kent, East Sussex

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and Surrey, over 180,000 households are in fuel poverty and the problem

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is getting worse. In some areas of the south-east, over 15% of

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household of fuel poor. Some also argue nuclear is better for the

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environment. One unlikely supporter is the former head of Greenpeace in

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the UK. He says it is there any way to meet carbon reduction targets.

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Taking into account the full life- cycle of production and

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decommissioning, the carbon dioxide emissions from nuclear are about 18

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from what they are from a coal fire station and a quarter of a gas

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fired power station. Nuclear is the only way that the UK government can

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meet its carbon reduction targets which are legally binding under the

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climate change act. He is also in favour of spending public money on

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nuclear, something which already happens for certain renewable

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sources. There will need to be subsidies of some sort, that will

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have to be accepted. But it is necessary to subsidise nuclear

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because it is an essential part of climate protection. That is what

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sending -- spending public money on. Some say more needs to be done to

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secure that the region's future electricity supply. Is the solution

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to prioritise nuclear ahead of other energy sources? To help the

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environment, job opportunities and people's fuel bills?

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Joining us now from a studio in Oxford is Catherine. Nuclear power

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- cheaper, helps reduce carbon emissions, and the people of

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Dungeness want it! Why do you say they should not get it? Well, it

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certainly isn't cheaper. It may be less carbon emitting, but it is not

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cheaper. It 2008 the cost was a �38 per megawatt lower than coal and

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gas and much lower than onshore and offshore wind. But that does not

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take into the cost of decommissioning and waste product.

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He said that that was eight level lysed generation cost. Know, we

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have always had subsidised decommissioning. That has never

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been at the door of the energy companies. And we now know that

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decommissioning is hugely expensive and the radioactive waste lies

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around for thousands of years in a dangerous state. Well, let me pick

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you up on a one. In the last 24 hours, the chief scientist for the

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government, said David King, argues that you can re-use that waste. He

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says plutonium could be used to create even more energy. Do not

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always, the technology is not there. Some of it can be used, but most

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cannot. And also, it is not sustainable. We don't have enough

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uranium in stable countries. If all power stations were built that

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people would like to be built, we would probably have about 20 years

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of uranium that we know of, say it is not sustainable. What we need to

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be doing is putting the money into renewable and into energy reduction.

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We heard about people in fuel poverty, if we put money into

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helping them with their fuel padding and more efficient use of

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energy, we would save enormous amounts without going down a very

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risky route. Let's talk about it being risky. Obviously there was

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Japan, but let us look at two very good to -- robust opinion polls.

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They both demonstrated that public support for nuclear power in this

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country has not gone down, it has gone up. The people of Dungeness

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want it, they don't feel there is a risk. The market forces are not

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coming up with the money since the big nuclear catastrophes of

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Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. Not one nuclear power station has

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been built without government subsidy since then because it is

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too expensive for the markets - the insurance, the decommissioning, the

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building and all the safety features make it an enormously

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expensive form of energy in terms of environmental and safety

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concerns. If we actually put that money into investment into

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renewables and into energy reduction, we would actually have

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sustainable and save electricity supplies. Thank you. Jason, I am

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intrigued to know the official Green party line on this. In terms

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of the green movement, it threatens to split you down the middle.

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we oppose it. The government had been playing fast and loose with

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the figures here. They don't include the insurance costs, the

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security costs. But it is not just the government to gives these low

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figures. The Royal Academy of Engineering puts it down as a penny

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for penny almost as cheap as gas. If you look at the go Shemar, only

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about �1.4 billion of insurance was liable to the insurers. The rest

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was the government's liability. There is a limitless cost to

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dealing with this very dangerous fuel, which is limited - there is

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less than 20 years' worth of uranium. Why would we spend

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billions in such a short an energy source? Well, Gordon, you are the

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last person I would expect to hear endorsing nuclear power. The your

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constituents, wind energy surely has to be the future. If you get a

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great at the tight -- appetite for wind energy, you could get that

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turbine up and running and that would mean jobs for people.

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Absolutely, and I'm a great supporter of the both onshore and

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offshore wind. But I'm not an expert about nuclear. I'm an expert

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on what I think my constituents want, and what they want is to be

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able to turn the light on and have power. My big concern isn't about

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the environment, I mean, I am concerned, but my big concern is

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energy security. We are increasingly going to be held

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hostage by overseas supplies of energy, so we need our own supplies,

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and we need them from a mix of sources. One of them is no clear.

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That doesn't mean to say we cannot put money into reducing the need

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for it, which is what the Green Party want. We will have to leave

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it there. We are back to policing - should it ever be for-profit?

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Earlier this week, Sussex police talked to private security

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companies about privatising part of their service. Almost every area of

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service was up for discussion. Police forces across the country

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have to make 20% budget cuts, but his privatisation really the answer,

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and will it change policing for good or evil? Gordon, let's start

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with you. Theresa May clearly believes that some sort of

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outsourcing is the way forward. Kent Police told us this week they

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will not look at privatising or out serving anything - have they got it

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wrong? Good for them. I would oppose any suggestion that we

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privatise the core police service. So, what would you be happy with

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them doing? Well, there is always an argument for some of the

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services. For instance, the maintenance of vehicles, canteens,

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things civilians could easily do. But the actual core services,

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patrolling our streets, we cannot sub-contract that. So you would

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make a distinction between frontline policing and backroom

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policing? Well, even back room policing I would be nervous. Why,

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what you worried about? Because there has to be continuity, and if

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you have the police themselves on the front line, they need to be

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able to communicate with the backroom. There is civilisation

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already in -- severely ionisation - - some of the areas have been

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civilised already. Jason, where would you draw the line? I think it

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is shocking. It is ill-considered, you cannot possibly have private

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contract is doing investigation and providing the public safety and

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protection that police officers do. But also, it is ill-considered. We

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see time and again that this sort of outsourcing just creates an

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additional level which adds costs. The NHS, in their move towards

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privatisation, they cost went towards 14% up from 5%. It will

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really undermine confidence. All because of these austerity measures

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from the government, it is ill- considered. I used philosophically

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opposed to privatisation, or privatisation of the police

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specifically? Boat. Is this green philosophy, that privatisation is

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that? There is obviously a grey area on this, I would not expect

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the police to be building their own photocopiers or printers, and they

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should use the best providers there, but when it comes to core services,

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the reason they are in the public sector is it is different from a

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commercial centre. Their duty is to serve everybody. Are you aware that

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they already privatised aspects such as custody suites? Yes, and it

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is regrettable. What is your concern? Well, it is about

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democratic accountability. accountability, do you believe many

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people believe the police are that accountable as they stand? I would

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have thought there is quite a broad perception that nobody ever takes

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the blame in the police when someone goes wrong anyway.

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welcome I think there is an issue there and at the police should be

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more directly controlled by directly elected councillors, but

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that is an argument that has been winning with the government at the

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moment. The government is introducing elected commissioners

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who will be in charge of local police forces. That is still

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democracy, because people will be able to select those people. That

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is what we're talking about. You want accountability, you cannot get

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more accountable than being elected. If I would prefer more councillors

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to be involved rather than creating another level of one person who

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could easily influenced. I was a councillor on Kent Council and I

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know that actually one remove from there protection of our people.

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us take a round-up of this week's Water companies across the south-

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east will introduce hosepipe bans next month to conserve water

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supplies in drought conditions. The Environment Secretary said we must

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act now. The family of a Kent businessman

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extradited to the US welcomed the Prime Minister raising the issue

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with the President during talks in Washington. But they said it is

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done action, not words. The region has no premier football

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clubs, but that did not stop Damian Collins introducing a Bill saying

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that owners of top-flight teams past a fitness test.

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And there was a ding-dong over Big Ben. Visitors will be able to visit

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it for free after a U-turn over charges. Why did Hitler tried to

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spend so much time bombing it out of existence of it is not a symbol

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of Britain? Let's start with a hosepipe ban.

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Gordon, people in quite large much the -- numbers called my radio show

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to say they didn't care. Would you report a constituent who you are

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caught breaking the ban? No, I wouldn't, I think that is for

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police to detect people. I have to say, I have always worried about

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the hosepipe ban. It is daft to me. You can just use a watering can!

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Let's talk about football clubs. She Division to be included in this

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scrutiny? I don't believe the government has any duty to look

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after football clubs. Jason? Well, the seagulls obviously very

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important to our community so it is important they are well run. Well,

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