15/07/2012 Sunday Politics South East


15/07/2012

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In the south-east, are you ready for a virtual hospital ward in your

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home? We look at radical plans to change their face of health care in

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1797 seconds

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I'm Natalie Graham and this is the Sunday Politics in the south-east.

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Coming up in the next 20 minutes: Degree or no degree? That's the

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question facing thousands of south- east students as figures suggest

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higher tuition fees have led to a drop in university applications.

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Joining me in the studio today is Conservative MP for South Thanet,

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Laura Sandys, and south-east MEP and UKIP Leader, Nigel Farage.

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We'll start with a subject close to Laura's heart - the future of food

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production. The Government's Green Food Project was being promoted in

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Kent this week by the Environment Secretary Caroline Spelman. For the

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project has been looking at different ways of producing more

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food but you are not 100% happy with the way the initiative has

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been carried out. I am pleased that there is a new emphasis on food and

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food production but what is interesting is how the Department

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looks, they never really talked to the consumer. It is crucial when I

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have got family it in Thanet in particular, we are talking about

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five, six, 7% food price increases year-on-year, and we must but the

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consumer at the heart of the food policy and really ensure that we

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are giving them the support to make less go further. This was all about

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increasing food production and improving the environment. One of

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the suggestions, Nigel, is that we should grow different crops like

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spices and chick peas. Would you like that in the Garden of England?

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Anything with the word "Green" in it, be suspicious, because it

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usually means it will be a waste of time and cost a fortune and be

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subsidised by the taxpayer, but what and -- what I can make out

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from this particular idea, unlike wind turbines, which cost a fortune,

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the idea is to encourage farmers to grow different crops but not give a

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subsidy to do it, that the farmers decide. The Government do not

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interfere. We need to produce more in the UK, we are the biggest

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importer of food in the developed world. I actually think that is

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quite a precarious place to be. So go out, grow more and eat good,

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English food. Thank you both very much for now.

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Patients in Kent and East Sussex could soon receive hospital

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treatment in their own homes, when new health care plans take effect.

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It's part of a drive to move services out of wards and into the

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community. But critics say the new system is too ambitious and could

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put undue pressure on GPs. Helen Nurse's care and finesse that are

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in a team in East Kent called hospital at home. -- Clare and the

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Benesova. It is part of what is called a virtual war, travelling to

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patients houses, rather than going to hospital. Today they are

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checking on Pat, who need help after a shoulder operation. It is

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brilliant, I would much rather do this than go into hospital. I mean,

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it is good being there, because you have it there, but this service,

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you couldn't faltered. There are plans to do much more of this in

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Kent, with the focus on keeping people out of hospital and looking

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after them at home or in their communities where possible. These

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plans were lodged in Dover with the help of the Health Secretary Andrew

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Lansley. It doesn't make the actual decisions on health care at Kent

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Health Commission, but it helps our the allocation will be divided.

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Instead of being spent in hospital, many will be spent on trying to

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keep people out of hospitals. But there are concerns. I think the

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aspiration to have people treated more in the community than in a

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hospital is a good concept and should be pursued, but they think

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it is a very over ambitious exercise which has not been costed

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or planned. They tell us there is �59 million to be taken out of the

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hospital service. That is a lot of money and that means some things

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are not going to be done that are currently being done, but they have

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not identified those. I don't think it has been thought all the way

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through and it certainly hasn't been consulted on. What sets Kent's

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plans aside from everywhere else in the country is it is bringing local

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councils into the decision process. The charity the King's Fund, which

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improves -- worked on improving the health system in England, says no

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other Trust has taken this approach, but support is also needed from GPs.

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It increases the pressure on GPs not to refer. It increases the

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anxiety of those GPs who struggle with that sort of thing. There are

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certainly worries that it is correct -- placing a greater

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responsibility on our shoulders and if things go wrong, we will be held

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accountable. One can take a very safe course and throw a lot of

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permissions, and share responsibility, so that does

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increase anxiety. Over in East Sussex, they are planning a similar

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sheet to community health care, led by a new body called Sussex

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Together. It is creating a health care strategy for the county. But

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will another layer between the patient and actual doctors and

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nurses make it hard to understand what is going on? Incredibly hard.

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Sussex Together almost appeared out of nowhere. I am not sure when, I

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think under a year ago. I am not entirely sure who is held

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accountable there. Like a lot of changes that have been going on in

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the NHS for many years, it appears that every 10 months or so, a brand

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new organisation suddenly materialises. Does this remove the

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patient even further from decisions? It does, in my view.

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Patients across the south-east. To see new ways of working soon. Here

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in Kent, changes are being made to move towards hat -- community

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health care and over in Sussex, a similar move is planned. But

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critics say it will need more resources, so is a widespread move

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to a community health care realistic? Or will it create more

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pressure on GPs and distant patients from having a say on how

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they are looked after? Helen Drew reporting. Joining me

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from our Dover studio is Conservative MP for Dover and Deal,

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Charlie Elphicke - one of the key members of the Kent Health

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Commission. Let's address the concerns raised by Dr Meech first

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of all. GPs will feel under pressure not to refer patients -

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that's not in their interests or patients' interests. Actually, I

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think that is complete nonsense. What we are looking at at Kent

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Health Commission is making it easier to get health care treatment

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for patients. It is nice and easy if you are in a GP, just referring

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off to hospital at a whim, which happens so often at the moment...

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Hang on, at a whim? For us in Dover, that means a 40 minute trip down

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the motorway... But if you are a general practitioner, you are not

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an expert in all illnesses. If you have a patient you're not sure

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about and you want a second opinion, surely it is in their best

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interests to send them to hospital. What we want to see is the new

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health facility in Dover which will make it so much more accessible for

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people to get the health care treatment they need to have, and

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you can talk to a consultant on the telephone or indeed have an

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Internet connection and discuss with them in your own home, that is

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increasing accessibility and saving people long journeys to hospital.

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So we need to look at how we can use technology best to make it

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easier for the patients. Under lot of people will be agreeing that it

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is better to have an patients treated at home rather than in

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hospital. Are you suggesting that Dr Beeching is in the minority? He

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does represent 1,500 GPs -- Dr Meech. I had a meeting with GPs

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recently and we sat about talking how we could use technology,

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getting ahead of people being ill, because you know who is most likely

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to have an illness and you can treat them preventative live. I

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think that is really positive and the way we should be managing NHS

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resources. Can I just ask about the other question Leslie Christie

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raised, that �59 million is being taken away from hospitals had been

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put into this community models. What impact will that have on

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hospitals? I think it will be a positive impact. We are talking

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about 2% of the entire span. We are not talking in health service terms

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about the large proportion of money. If that keep people out of hospital,

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if it means that people are treated before they get ill, it will have

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more prevention and we will know people will be better off. This is

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a pioneering system and one of only two places and the country where it

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is being introduced at the moment. -- in the country. What would

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happen if doctors Don't do as they expect you to -- you expect them to

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do, and they don't refer people to hospitals and the money is not

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there to treat them? What I can say is that after meeting with the GPs

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yesterday in this area, many are excited about the potential...

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Those of the GPs you have spoken to in that area. There are other GPs

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who are concerned about what would happen if they refer patients to

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hospital. If GPs choose to refer patients to hospital, they have the

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absolute right to, GPs are in charge of how to treat those

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patients and the treatment they should have, to a much greater

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extent than they previously did. This system is set up so they don't

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refer patients, that is my point. The point I'm trying to make his it

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is better if you can get in ahead of a patient being ill and saving

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them having to go for an acute operation procedure, and it is much

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more cost-effective and efficient to treat people first if you can.

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That is a really positive way forward. Thank you, stay there for

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now, and I would like to introduce it My guests. Laura, prevention is

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better than cure? I think we are trying to put the patient at the

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heart of this and I haven't met that many people, particularly the

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elderly, who are excited about going into hospital. What they want

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as much as possible is to be treated at home, or at their GP's

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surgery. They want to be cared for in their own environment. A

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hospital does not equate for patient choice, 90% of the time.

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But if doctors are not convinced this is the right way forward,

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Niger, are you concerned? It must be worth trying. Over the last 15

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years, we have poured more money into the NHS and not necessarily

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got a better result, and frankly, to hear a GP, after the massive pay

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rises they got under the last government, say that he doesn't

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like this because it will give him increased responsibility, well, I

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am very sorry. They have stopped coming out at night, stopped coming

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out at weekends, they have one of the most incredible salary and

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pension deals anywhere in the public sector. Take some

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responsibility. Laura, you are agreeing, but as I mentioned to

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Charlie Elphicke, it is the responsibility that GPs has to

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assess a patient properly. I don't think any GP will not possess a

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patient properly and when it is right for a patient to go to

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hospital, they will not refer them. It is just that we have more

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options and more ability to treat people at home where they want to

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be treated and I think that is rarely good news. Thank you both

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and then queue Charlie Delphic in As anxious students await their A-

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level results, new figures out this week show that university

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applications from the south-east have dropped by around 10% compared

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to this time last year. The number of people hoping to go on to higher

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education in the region has also fallen, with Surrey and Brighton

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suffering the heaviest drops. Brighton is blaming rising tuition

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fees. But is this reduction in applications necessarily a bad

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thing? Nigel for Reg? -- Nigel for . Brighton has had drop out rate of

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10%, so fewer people are applying and drop out rates fall, it is not

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necessarily a bad thing. I have strongly felt and UKIP have felt

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that this target that we ought to send 50% of all by youngsters the

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university, that all of the parties have supported, frankly has been

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nonsense. I blame that BT advert with Maureen Lipman, that we have

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to go to university and get something it used first! You where

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gays tuition fees. Is this a consequence you foresaw -- you were

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against tuition fees. We had the highest number of applications for

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universities, so it may have dropped from last year but last

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year was very high, so it is not as dramatic as it is maybe being

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portrayed, but secondly, we have got things like high-end

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apprenticeships, when people are doing a year in an engineering

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company and being sent by that company to university, where there

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is a career path already there. people can decide they are better

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off not going to university? Some of these universities might be

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charging too much for what they are offering. They have all gone to

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9,000. They should be offering students a wider choice, that is

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why there should be a lot more availability, a lot more choice for

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the student, not just at the University... As institutions, they

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are valuable for the economy, let alone to the students. In Sussex,

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that there has been a huge rise of international students. If people

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outside of Europe are coming to study, is it something that would

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concern you? If it is being run as a business and that the country, we

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are making money, that is fantastic. What worries me, though, is this

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very week the Government has said it wants student numbers coming in

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and out of the country to be excluded from the immigration

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figures. One of the big problems we have got is we just don't know how

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many foreign students to come to this country stay or leave. So I am

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all for foreign students coming, provided that it is not being used

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for a backdoor immigration rid. certainly isn't. A but we don't

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know. For example, in Thanet, we have a lot of the English language

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schools, a lot of coastal towns. We have been quite clear with

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government that actually we need to ensure that those numbers to come

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out of the overall government numbers, because it is actually

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affecting local businesses quite dramatically. But the Government

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said the opposite. But we must count them out as well as Kent then

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in. There government says it does not intend to do that anymore.

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of the things that has come out of the figures that is quite

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interesting is disadvantaged students, poorer students, haven't

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been affected by the rising tuition fees. Absurdity. We put in a huge

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amount of provision to support students from lower incomes --

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absolutely. And it is something that the schools are putting in a

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lot of support for, encouraging those young people to get

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university. They will not have to pay a penny back. Until they get to

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�21,000 in their salary. So we have got much better scheme that

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delivers... I think if you are right at the bottom of the social

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economic income scale, that is true, but as ever, it is people in the

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middle who get caught. I would send fewer students than I wouldn't

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charge them. But poorer students are still three times less likely

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to go to university than their richer counterparts. In Kent, we

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have through the grammar school system where we are getting more

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social mobility, that is encouraging. People from all sorts

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of backgrounds. I think it is absolutely essential that we look

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at those family is coming from lower income families who are not

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used to go to university within their family, we have to encourage

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them to go. All right. Now it is time for a round-up of the events

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The Government announced yet another delay to public

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consultation on the future of airport capacity. Bit frustrated

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supporters and opponents of the plans, which go to the world's

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largest airport built and the Thames Estuary or a second runway

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at Gatwick. One of 200 dairy farmers and the

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south-east are to the streets of London to call on the Government to

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stop supermarkets hold and then to ransom by cutting the price of milk.

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Several Kent MPs were among the 91 Tories who rebelled over Lords

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reform. I filled his -- bitterly disappointed that I am voting

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against my party, sick to the pit of my stomach.

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The MPs voted for family-friendly hours, ending all but one of

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Westminster's late-night sessions. Caroline Lucas call for a better

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work-like balance. I think people are entitled for that -- to that,

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even MPs. At least they have the next seven weeks off to concentrate

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on getting the balance right. Now, he would like to have seven

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weeks of? Laura, what are you going to do with your time? I get

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irritated when people say we are on holiday. We do a huge amount of

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work in the constituency and I am not taking any time off between now

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and September, so you will see me on the streets of Thanet without a

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problem. Nigel? I shall be all over the UK and all over Europe as well!

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Continuing my Billy Graham like crusade against the European Union,

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so no rest. Caroline Lucas was talking about work life balance. Do

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you think the things that Westminster need correcting?

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voted for the change in hours because I prefer to go home on a

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Tuesday evening and work from home. I don't think we are going to find

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that... On the whole we need to work around 90 hours a week, so why

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won't be reducing my hours, just doing them in different places.

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have taken all of the drama and the fun out of Westminster, the late-

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night votes and the late-night sitting and the things that the

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public and the voters actually found interesting. The voters

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actually found it interesting and we have turned it into a family

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friendly, nine-to-five job and given that it is going to be closed

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for three months over the summer, I don't know... How has of Lords

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reform, do you think we will see it again? I think it is the proverbial

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Monty Python dead parrot. It is not going to come back in this

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Parliament. I disagree, I have been an advocate for 20 years that we

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could actually have a democracy where we could vote for people in a

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our legislature. It seems like a wacky idea. They cannot agree the

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terms, it is not going to happen. It is a huge majority in parliament.

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