04/11/2012 Sunday Politics South East

And in the South East... Are the highest childcare costs in

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2067 seconds

the country preventing women with Hello, I'm Natalie Graham and this

is the Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up, it has started

producing power, but will be London Array wind farm power up the local

economy or simply line the pockets of its largely foreign owners?

Joining me is the Conservative MP for Crawley Henry Smith and the

Labour group leader of Brighton and Hove City Council, Gill Mitchell.

Let's start with the threat to our native woodland. On Monday the

government banned the import of ash trees to stop the spread of the

deadly ash dieback fungus and on Friday at the first potential

infected site in Kent was identified by the Forestry

Commission. It sounds like too little, too late. It is very

worrying. In Denmark they understand because they have lost

nine out of every 10 ashtrays. I support the ban on importing ash

trees and on Friday the government's Emergency Committee

met to look at how to respond and they are setting up a special

biological security action team to address the problem. But this is

wind borne so it is hard to deal with. In Denmark they could have

done more more quickly? I think a lot of research has been taking

place but they have failed to deal with it in Europe so the biology

seems to be against us. It is difficult when you have so many

material coming into a country. but I think the government have

been caught napping. It was identified in February and I think

it -- I think 50,000 trees have been burnt since then and only now

the government seems to be taking action. I very much support the ban

on imports and there is now at last a public awareness campaign under

way. Brighton and Hove is home to the largest collection of countries

in the UK and we have seen what Dutch UN disease has done to those

trees. -- Dutch elm. The nightmare is the same that happens to all of

the other trees affected by various pests and diseases. It is worrying

and as of the moment there is no cure for this fungal infection.

Until a cure can be found, it is depressing stuff. The cost of pre-

school child care in the South East is the highest in the country.

Women from some middle-income families are finding the financial

burden so prohibitive that they are opting to stay at home rather than

work and they claim that government cuts to Clive -- to child benefit

and relocation of nursery crimes are making things worse. -- re-

allocation. Nikki Clark and her husband have

two children. They live in West Malling in Kent. Until recently

Nikki worked full-time in a professional job in London at --

earning �30,000 but she has had to give it up. The high cost of

childcare and other expenses member she was left with just �54 a month.

Be it was hard because I have studied, I did a degree and

postgraduate study. I have always been clear-minded and I am being

forced to wait longer until the children go to school. Every year,

child care prices are increasing. It is not good for any couple. You

are forced to stay at the same level, which is frustrating. What

was brought up to strive and develop myself and you just can't

if you decide to have children. Life in the South East is expensive

and many families say they need a dual income to afford a decent

standard of living here but if both parents work it is childcare but

could be the biggest cost of all. Britain now has the most expensive

childcare outside Switzerland and in Kent, Sussex and Surrey we are

paying a highest prices in the country. Child care costs have

risen faster than inflation and wages in recent years so an average

week at a childminder in the region now costs �110 for two to four

year-olds and �119 for children under two. Child care can work out

-- wipe out almost a third of the income of a family like Nikki's.

Some say that coalition policies mean that the sums don't add up for

women who want to get back to work. And tell the child care tax cuts --

tax benefits were cut in 2011, child care was becoming more

affordable. -- until the child care tax cuts. The government has to

spend more money on benefits because people are not going back

to work. The investment could prevent them having to pay much

more. This week there were accusations

that government plans to remove or reduce child benefit to parents

earning more than �50,000 could be illegal, as it discriminates

against better rough British parents compared to the European

counterparts. -- better off. Councils provide �15 a week of free

nursery care to young children. In order to pay for two-year-old

children to get that as well, critics say the government is

reducing the money it gives to each council by a �1 million a year.

Councils are having to reorganise budgets in response. We understand

the government's decision in trying to reduce the national debt and we

are taking our fair share of that. We have set aside what we believe

is enough money so we won't put pressure on services. What is the

government doing to help families? A new minister, Conservative

Elizabeth Truss, was appointed in September and the Child Care

Commission she oversees will deliver a report later this year

but with just two thirds of women it -- women working in Britain,

trailing behind other European Union countries, should and the

coalition be making sure that women can afford to work? -- shouldn't

the coalition. If I take a higher position I am worse off than if I

take a lower position. Joining us from our Hastings studio

is Conservative MP for Hastings and Rye Amber Rudd. It is such a waste,

educated women like Nikki making the decision not to work because

they can't afford to. A massive waste for them and the economy of

the country. We need to do more to make childcare affordable. The fact

is that two-thirds of women who are mothers don't work and over half of

them say they want to work. Child care under the last government

doubled the cost of childcare and it is the highest in the world

apart from Switzerland so I know that the new minister is working

hard to see what we can do to reduce the costs. As we also heard,

your government is to -- is cutting child tax credits, the writ -- the

disparity between income and childcare costs is getting greater.

We need to take action and one of the things I know the minister is

most keen about is looking at the ratios but childminders have in

order to legally look after children, child minders and nursery

school teachers. We have some of the highest ratios in Europe and we

need to address that so we can make childcare more affordable, allow

professionals to look after more children and make the industry more

professional. If we have more professionals they can look after

more children and we can have confidence that we have a more

professional organisation. points - many mothers will balk at

the idea of their children being looked after by one adult among

many other children. 6 % of childminders in the UK have degrees.

On the Continent it is 60 %. What parents prefer professional

childminders or one who go into it when it is so low paid? I think a

lot of parents just want to know that their child is in the best

possible hands. Maybe having fewer children to look after it would

help. I wouldn't underestimate the value of qualifications. Under the

last government the number of child minders was cut by half because

they weren't getting enough out of it. We want to increase the

professionalism of childminders and nurseries and the way to do that is

to allow them to earn more. If that is one of the recommendations that

the minister comes up with, the other question that needs to be

answered is how is that going to cut the cost of childcare? If you

allow them in terms of the ratios to look after more children you can

earn more apt to be at. But we are looking at it -- we are putting

more money into childcare. When we going to Universal Credit next year

we are putting another �300 million into childcare and you will be able

to get assistance with childcare costs when you earn less than...

You also taking child benefit our way. The squeeze Middle was

personified by Nikki. You need to win those people over to win the

next election. Yes, but we will win them over by having a more sound

economy and better physical standards and I hope she will

understand but if you learn over �50,000 and certainly over �60,000

we can't afford to pay out child benefit. -- that if you earn.

of the other casualties is from graduate women, who have had a lot

of taxpayers' money spent on education, who have to decide

whether it is worth going back to work. It is just not worth some

women having ambitions, ladder they can climb Korea Wise. No, and we

have to change that. It is absurd that our childcare is almost the

most expensive in the world. But the government also makes one of a

highest contributions. It is the net cost of childcare that has got

out of hand. We have to work with schools so that you have an earlier

start to the day, later finished at the end. There are lots of step we

will be taking in order to help women get back to work. -- lots of

steps. Amber Rudd, thank you. Gill Mitchell, what d'you think of

the suggestion that making childcare more professional will

make things easier? I totally disagree. It will increase costs

and lower quality. Good-quality affordable childcare, enabling

women to work, has to be seen as underpinning the economy, and the

big debate at the moment is about growth and growing the economy.

This type of thing is a totally retrograde step. She also mentioned

that the government is putting �300 million into providing free nursery

places for two year-olds in disadvantaged areas. That is coming

from the early intervention grant. Brighton and Hove City Council is

losing �3 million because of this change from its other child care

services. A sure start budget is being slashed, the Youth Service

budget is being slashed, projects for disabled children. Hard to

defend, day it -- Henry Smith. we saw with the previous government

is childcare costs doubled and the number of child minders heart so we

are starting from a very difficult situation. And you are starting by

taking away tax benefits and child credit? We have the historically

highest deficit this country has ever had in peacetime as a result

of the legacy of the last government's reckless spending and

so some very difficult choices need to be made that I am not

comfortable with. One of those choices is that higher rate

taxpayers, those earning over �50,000, no longer should get child

benefit. I am not happy that that is a necessity but... But we heard

from people earning less than that. The squeezed middle. They are

feeling the pinch. They will not be losing child benefit. But it is not

worth their while going back to work. This is one example of women

and children and low-income families bearing the brunt of your

Government's policies. It is dressed up in a cloak of austerity

but you are targeting low-income families, very often families in

work. You are hitting them with increased charges and new taxes.

think what has hit people across our country is the fact that this

country has been left in the worst financial stake we have ever seen

and that is why we need to look at new ways of providing childcare,

that is why a new minister has been appointed to look at this

specifically so we can get back to have been better childcare, and

another thing that Amber Rudd mentioned is that those people are

receiving Universal Credit. Now they will have to be working 16

hours or more to receive childcare credit but they will now receive it

however many hours they work. London Array wind farm off Ramsgate

has generated its first powerful stock -- London Array. It aims to

serve for just under half-a-million homes and it has been welcomed by

Laura Sandys, who says it is great for a local economy, but is it?

Joining me is the UKIP MEP and wind farm sceptic, Nigel Farage. They

are generating power, aren't they? -- generating. They do, but not

when you needed. In the winter they produce absolutely nothing. -- when

you need it. They produce intermediate -- intermittent power

so you have to back them up full- time with conventional power

stations. They are vastly expensive, offshore been even more expensive,

and who makes the money? Would be onshore wind farms people like

David Cameron's father-in-law gets paid �1,000 a day for having them

on his land. -- with the onshore wind farms. �2 billion worth of

foreign investment in British industry, isn't that to beat

welcomed? We will hear about Queen jobs from Laura Sandys and her type.

For every job created in the green sector up to four have been lost in

conventional manufacturing in Britain because we are paying to

subsidise the wind farm stupidity. Every single person watching this

come -- this programme is paying a 12 % surcharge on their fuel bills

to pay for stupidities like this. I fought -- I almost forgot, they are

paid ugly as well. -- pig. Surely generating energy from renewable

sources is something to be welcomed? It is because we have

signed an agreement with Brussels and the British government says we

should stay with it. I am not against renewable energy but it has

to be at the right price and through a means of delivery that is

reliable and not intermittent. Wind is a disaster. It is the biggest

scam I think I had seen in my lifetime, with his grip -- is huge

transfer of money from poor people to rich people. We have too many

eggs in this basket. If people think that up to a 5th of our

energy is going to come by 2020, we are looking at power blackouts.

Tidal power is at least consistent, solar power, though expensive,

works. Wind farms are a complete disaster. Nigel Farage, thank you.

Henry Smith, I imagine Nigel is rather enjoying the coalition

discomfort when it comes to wind farms. Ed Davey said that he is

enthusiastic about wind farms but a Conservative member of parliament

said that enough is enough. At we need a mix of energy provision in

this country. Some of that will be wind. I agree that tidal and solar

resource is are in important part of the West -- the mix, as our

nuclear, coal and gas. To say no to wind farms is ridiculous. You are

not saying enough is enough like John Hayes. I think wind has a part

to play in renewable energy along with the other sources of renewable

energy. At there is a big wind farm planned of the short Brighton. If

it is not creating enough jobs and not even creating power, what are

we doing? I don't accept Nigel Farage's fantasy figures. A 12 %

subsidy? Ofgem are quoting 2 % on a jewel filled bill for a year.

London Array, as I understand it, will power a quarter of inner

London homes and will reduce carbon by over a million tonnes. Four

conventional jobs lost every one created. About �1 million gets

spent on every job in this industry and most of the money is foreign.

There is nothing coming in to our economy as a result. We have to

invest in renewable energy and actually I am in danger of agreeing

with Henry here that we have to have a range of energy sources,

otherwise what do we face? We face fuel bills climbing ever upwards as

traditional sources, oil and coal, dry up and cost more to extract and

import. The other thing many people are happy about is the subsidy

arrangements. The taxpayers are footing the bill, not the Treasury

subsidising these foreign countries investing in our wind farms.

think this country can be at the cutting edge of renewable energy

and we are in a very good place to be in that position. We were

leaders in the industrial revolution and I think we can be

leaders when it comes to renewable energy as well. Therefore I think

that investment in renewable energy, a country that is rich in the

natural resource in terms of the weather that we have, it is a good

step. Do you have any principled stance when it comes to Upshaw as

opposed to onshore wind farms, which offend many of your

Conservative colleagues? -- off shore. Wind farms can be ugly but

so can generate a plants. -- Cole and oiled generators. -- oil and

coal. So several South East MPs helped

inflict a government defeat in the Commons in a vote over the European

Union budget. When you have seen taxes go up and up to pay more to

the European Union budget, enough is enough. A man charged by the

government would recommending future airport policy said all

expansion plans for back on the table. He will publish his findings

in 2015. A multi-million-pound project to widen the A1 N West Kent

took a step closer. -- in west Kent. The Conservative Party may be

divided over European issues but a portrait has been unveiled of the

man credited with saving Europe. A portrait of Winston Churchill has

gone on display at the National Gallery. He has been called the

greatest Prime Minister of all time. Perhaps something for today's

politicians to aspire to. Henry, you will one of those

Conservative MPs who rebelled on Wednesday. It was not a binding

vote, it is a bombing opens saw in your party. What did you achieve by

voting the way you did? -- a Running opens off. We need to

reduce contributions from the UK going to the European Union. We are

involved -- making the Prime Minister go to those negotiations

and say that domestic budgets in the European Union are having to

reduce their budgets so be you should do the same thing. -- so the

European Union should do. I think the British people had set aside --

a clear message that the European Union needs to reduce its spending.

Winston Churchill, I don't know what he would make other Green-run

council like Brighton and Hove. Could we do with more like him?

don't think we could do more with - - I don't think we could do with

more green councils, but I think he would be on board with the wind