16/12/2012 Sunday Politics South East

In the south-east, left in the dark. Where residents are being Kent and

Sussex are concerned about safety and accidents if more of their

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2141 seconds

I'm Julia George and this is the Sunday Politics in the South East.

Coming up later: Attack of the drones. Could unmanned surveillance

aircraft be used in Kent in the fight against international crime

and illegal immigration? Joining me in the studio today is Police

Minister and Conservative MP for Ashford Damian Green, and South

East MEP and leader of UKIP Nigel Farage. Figures released from the

2011 Census show that the South East population is growing faster

than the national average and that there are more than 1.7 million

people living in Medway and Kent alone. The South East also has the

highest number of foreign born residents outside London. Is this a

positive development? Ed Miliband is proud of multi-ethnic diverse

Britain. Are you proud? Yes, but the issue Ed Miliband did not

address with the fact that Labour had uncontrolled immigration. That

was why the coalition government have reduced migration from the

quarter a million of the year to 180,000 the year and will reduce it

further. At those lower levels, we can enjoy what he knew people bring

to this country without having the threat of social disorder. We are

talking about the sort of people and the countries they come from in

a minute. Nigel, Ed Miliband has tried to defy -- detoxify the

Labour Brandt on immigration. sounded like a you Kipp speech. --

UKIP. Maybe it's a good thing that Ed Miliband is admitting they have

got things wrong, but you can't integrate people if you have the

numbers that would have had coming into this country. Immigration

around at 50,000 people a year. It is running at half a million people

a year. We have got this fact that we've got a higher-than-average

level of foreign-born people, but Kent is whiter than the national

average, which leads me to believe we're talking about Polish people.

Polish people coming into the country, that is an issue that you

cannot tackle the few state in the EU. You have come up with a major

speech this week saying, that's exactly where we need to be,

fighting in the EU. Those who say, let pull-out, they have to explain

to the big foreign companies who we want to invest here why it is safer

to invest outside the EU than inside. I think it's economic

madness. On the Polish issue, is the sense of scale. They are by and

large hard-working, respectable citizens. The problem comes when

you get the numbers out of kilter, as we did under Labour. But you

can't stop the numbers coming in from eastern Europe. It's totally

illegal. -- legal. Conservative Party in Westminster said we should

not have had a completely open door at that time. Croatia is coming

into the EU and we have said, we will have the full seven-year

transition for Croatia that we need. On the 1st January, 2014, we open

the doors completely to 29 million people from Romania and Bulgaria,

countries that are far poorer than Poland. Are we are looking down the

barrel of a to massive migratory invasion. We have talked about Kent,

you seem to put a lot of faith in the locals in York pub. We have

quoted there and to the Peter Gay marriage as a reason to block it.

Any her -- to gay marriage. Are they the hard-working people?

of the people who came initially were skilled people doing good jobs,

and Poland has been the loser. Now, because of a change in social

security rules, you can get jobs and housing benefit. There is

something wrong with that. safety you feel walking home late

at night? -- how safe do you feel? In Kent and East Sussex, local

authorities are planning to reduce their energy bills by switching off

up to 8,000 street lights. Consultations are taking place all

over the South East. But will this measure increase the risk of crime

and accidents at night? Lucinda Adam has this report. In the dark

days of austerity, the lights are about to get darker. In East Sussex

and Kent, county council's plan to reduce it street lighting to save

money and cut carbon emissions. In some streets, every other light

will be turned off. Some light will be dimmed, and in some residential

areas, the lights will go out completely between midnight and

5:30am. In this housing estate in stone cross, the light had been

modified to switch off after midnight. A Council consultation

showed people support the move. But that is based on just 16 responses.

Residents we spoke to were not so sure. I don't like the idea of it.

I'm petrified of the dark and I've got to docks. If it is like, you

can see what's going on. -- I have got two Dogs. It would be

ridiculous to have utter darkness. Charles Rist des Bexhill. He was a

policeman for 36 years. -- Charles lives in Bexhill. It is the fear of

it. If it is pitch black in areas where people live, the fear of

crime is just going to increase an increase. That is not good. There

are other ways they could cut their costs. Cutting out street light,

and raising the fear of crime, is not a good way to do it. It is

going to hurt people. Research by the a shows while only a quarter of

car journeys are made after dark, 45 % of injuries happen at night --

research by the a. Here, there was a campaign at this notorious

junction. Now, the county council plans to turn off the light after

midnight. It is a very dangerous junction. Coming home late at night

in the dark and fog, I would miss this turn-off, as many drivers

would. I don't think you can put saving money on people's lives. I

really don't. I have lived here for 30 years and to see the improvement

on this corner, it is surely not worth the risk. But Field was the

trial area for East Sussex. Some of the lights went off here one year

ago. But residents campaigned to get the light turned back on after

an increase in crime and anti- social heard -- behaviour. Last

year, on New year's Day, the -- we had some fighting on the street. A

young lady was trying to call the police because her boyfriend get

injured, but she didn't know where she was because it was pitch black.

If the light had been on, perhaps that would have been actively

discouraged. There are one of and 60,000 street lights in Kent and

East Sussex. -- 160,000. East Sussex spend �1.4 million on

electricity. These changes will make savings of just �400,000 and

�160,000. With relatively minor savings, his street lighting the

right place for councils to be making cuts? Warded the risks of

crime, accidents and people's well- being outweigh the financial

benefits? Carl Maynard is responsible for these plans to

switch off Street likes. You put an -- you shouldn't put people's lives

at risk. Are you doing the right thing? Returning down at some

street lights and dimming some, -- We are planning to turn down some

street lights and dim sum. understand only 16 people took part

in one of the consultations. It is not very robust. I have to say in

the consultations we have had, 49 % of people questioned were in favour,

27 % not in favour and 24 % who didn't express a preference.

Home Office study, including research carried out in Dover,

overwhelmingly concluded that crime drops when you improve street

lights. A lot of people just feel safer when the lights on. There's a

lot of evidence, and you're still saying you're doing the right

thing? The evidence there doesn't actually show that. One of your

people said earlier on that it is about a fear of crime. We're

working with police to make sure that that isn't the case, that

there is not a statistical increase in crime. We are in a situation

where we are looking at making severe cuts in terms of our revenue

budget. Money that we have to spend every day. To save �160,000 per

annum, to save the emissions of carbon Dunlop -- carbon dioxide, it

is a double benefit. Could does small savings improve the economy?

I'm not inventing the Home Office study, it indicated overwhelmingly,

crime drops when Street likes are improved. Let's be very clear. We

are also being sensitive to where we are making the changes. There

will be certain areas and certain towns where we will not be turning

off the street lights. It is not something we're doing across the

whole of East Sussex. We are doing so after consultation where we

don't think that the residents will be personally affected. Is there

anything which will make you change your mind? You have heard a report

that particular junction, people are extremely concerned. If crime

goes up and there are accidents, we you revisit this? If there is an

individual area where clearly it has been a problem, of course we

will read is that it. Thank you very much indeed. There are

absolutely certain they have made the right decision. Nigel, when

you're walking home from the pub, do you mind if the lights are on

off? Where I live is pretty well and we don't have any street light,

but if it was my street, I would be worried about it. One the other

hand, the size of government expenditure needs to be cut. The

one question people would ask his they would say, we all know we are

living in straitened times, but when you look at these councils and

the vast sums of money being spent, some might say they could be cut

made elsewhere. I think the key to it is to take this decision at as a

local level as possible. It is localism shown in its best light.

Sorry for the pun! I have got abilities in my constituency where

they would be horrified at the thought of street lighting, because

they like the natural light at night. You have got to listen to

people as close to the area as you can get. Now let's talk about Kent

Police. We ended up by the potential use of unmanned drones to

tackle immigration. They could be used to spy on the population, but

at a time of cuts to the police agencies, could these and piloted

aircraft's provide an efficient solution to cross-border crime?

Give us some clarity as to when this might be appropriate to to use

drones over Kent and Sussex? Kent Police had not come to me to say

they want to do this. We set up the National Police Air Service,

helicopters, and there were no trains in that. The other point

that is often missed, the Civil Aviation Authority has control over

this. -- a note -- no drones. This is run by the Dutch, and they are

looking at cross-border crime. The Dutch are doing it because they are

talking about land borders between them and other countries. And it is

used in America on the Mexican border. �51 million of taxpayers'

money is being used in this country experimenting with drones. 31

million given to a consortium of large defence companies to prove

they can be safe with commercial jets. Kent police might not be

spending money, but it taxpayers' money is being spent on this.

is MoD money. That is talking about using them for military purposes,

not for police purposes. The use helicopters to search for people

and for sporting cars if there during a car chase. It is safer to

do it from a helicopter. Drones, there are no use in that. If it

could be used, Nigel Farage, to police borders, couldn't they be

used to police our poorest borders? What is the point of it? Even with

when we have massive illegal immigration, it just brings more

amnesty. There is no point tightening border controls if women

get illegal immigrants we allow them to stay anyway. -- if when we

get. Is there a civil liberty issue here? I'm worried about that. I

think this massive extension of the Big Brother state, where there is

the ability to track your e-mails or your mobile phone conversations,

it is not something I want to encourage. I don't know how drone

could recognise an illegal immigrant from aid illegal

immigrant -- from a legal immigrant. It is not relevant. Even if it

doesn't cost them money, while Kent police bothering? -- why are Kent

police bothering? They're not spending any money on it, and if

somebody came along and convinced me that this was useful, I would

consider it. The European Union itself wants to set up its own

border agency, and they are the ones thinking about using drones.

And we're not part of the system so we do keep control of our own

borders. But it is also useful. When I was Immigration Minister, I

supported the European wide attempts to improve the situation.

He is a regular round-up of the The farming minister says there

will be tougher checks on live animal exports from Ramsgate.

need facilities that are appropriate and Ramsgate is not the

appropriate poured for this trend. Medway is failing its children.

That was the criticism after its schools came bottom in England for

achievement in maths and English. If this man says most of his

constituents are against plans for same-sex weddings in churches and

other places of religious worship. The marriage should be between a

man and a woman. Can computers predict where crime

will happen? It might seem like a science-fiction film, but it's the

grant-making scheme being piloted by Kent police. And you don't have

to go far to have reached one of the world's topped troubled

destinations in 2013. Margate has been named among to brighter Rico

and Dubrovnik as the top destinations. -- Puerto Rico.

So, one of your colleagues saying that man is between -- marriages

between a man and a woman. Is it? think marriage is a great

institution, it is one of the great stabilising factors in a civilised

society. I think it should be available to as many people as

possible. This man is planning on crucifying you the next election,

using this as a leverage point. Are you going to let him? No, think

anyone who cares about society will care about marriage. It is the

bedrock of this applies society and it seemed to me that extending it

to further groups of people enhances the instability of society.

Are you going to quiz of by the Conservatives at the next election

on the issue of gay marriage? will say this, in the brought

England -- in all England, the bedrock conservative areas, the

overwhelming majority of people opposed to gay marriage. It has

given gay people equality and the right to pass money on when they

die, but to redefine some think that is absolutely at the heart of

our established Church and constitution... We are part of the

European Convention on Human Rights, and if we allow marriage, the word

marriage, to be used in civil ceremonies, there will be a case

before the European Court of Human Rights, and the risk is that

millions of people from all faiths may find themselves living in a

country where there are places of worship are forced to conduct

ceremonies that they find offensive. Tolerance is a two-way street. We

have become tolerant of gay people in Britain and rightly so, let's be

tolerant of the faith communities. But you may recognise that some

other faith communities have said that they welcome this. Some do.

Most don't. We have quite deliberately put on a very specific

law allowing the churches that want to do it to do it, so that that

kind of legal risk will not happen. I insist we finish with Margate.

One of the places to visit in 20 getting. What you go on holiday