27/01/2013 Sunday Politics South East

And in the South East - as elected Police Commissioners submit their

first annual budgets, we talk to two of them to find out what lies

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2288 seconds

in store for policing in Kent and I'm Julia George and this is the

Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up later. High mortgages and

rents in Brighton and Crawley could stop economic growth, says a new

report. So what can be done to make housing more affordable?

Joining me in the studio today to discuss this among other topics is

- by sheer coincidence - Brighton Pavilion Green Party MP Caroline

Lucas and Conservative MP for Crawley Henry Smith. Welcome. Let's

start with the promise from the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister has promised a referendum on Europe if his party

gets elected in 2015. In response, Conservative Kent County Councillor

Adrian Crowther has defected to UKIP, saying David Cameron s is

'dithering' and should have held the referendum this year instead.

This is interesting, about a year- and-a-half ago Choral, you looked

far referendum, you said you wanted to see a radical reform of the way

Europe operates. You and David Cameron singing from the same hymn

sheet, are you a secret Tory or is he a secret dream?! Neither of the

above! I am a pro-democracy, I am not against the European Union. I

would strongly argue that we stay in the European Union. David

Cameron has been pretty cowardly by saying a referendum, but not for

five years. That tries to blackmail people that want a referendum time

round, which has not worked, because of the Kent councillor

defecting. It is a demonstration are putting party interest ahead of

the national interest. It is not in the national interest to have five

more years of uncertainty. Business wants policies certain seat. If

there is going to be a referendum, I would like that it was now.

you have argued for closer integration in Europe, where are

your Europe this week? I have never argued for integration, I was

always in favour of a referendum on membership of the European Union.

That is the position I have held my entire political career. I welcome

the referendum announcement by David Cameron. I would like to have

a referendum as soon as possible. We have a coalition government

against a referendum, so it is not possible. They were against it at

things that your party has bulldozed them harm. Nick Clegg has

come out clearly and said that he does not support the idea of a

referendum in this Parliament. Prime Minister now as if he had a

referendum now, this country would vote to go out and that is not what

the Prime Minister wants. What he wants to achieve, and they think

this is right, he wants to renegotiate the way that Europe

works. That may be possible, that may not be possible. It would be

beneficial may be a for this country, but beneficial for the

other countries as well. But he has not successful in renegotiating a

deal, but I will vote to leave. you very much.

Later this week, our recently elected Police Commissioners in

Kent, Surrey and East Sussex will be finalising their first budgets -

only two and a half months after taking up their posts. More visible

policing is high on all agendas, but how will the Commissioners pay

for it? Lucinda Adam went to find out.

And work with other services. is the first judgment day for our

new commissioners. At will act with integrity and diligence. They have

laid out plans on changing policing in the south-east in the next four

years and how they plan to pay for it. Have they lived up to their

election promises? The biggest decision as they face budget cuts

of �50 million for each police force over four years is how much

they asked the council tax payer to pay towards local police saying?

Katie board has frozen the contribution. She will get a

government grant for doing so which she we used to recruit more or

unpaid special constables. This commissioner has not released his

plan yet it is consulting residents upon until the deadline. He has

indicated that he faces an increase to be is the Budget. In Kent, they

want 80 % rise in attacks that the, just over 5p per week per average

household. That will be 20 constables, 60 police dignity

support officers and 18 custody staff cut. But we are more officers

deliver the best results? That is the major question. It is what

everybody says that they want we knew ask them. People say that they

want more police on the beach, more visible police. A lot of police

saying professionals will say that simply having officers is a bull is

not necessarily the most efficient use of the policing resource. Anne

Barnes once will were policing stations, a new crime Commissioner

it was beg the Baltic ology and fogeys and victims. David Cooper

was a police officer before becoming a commissioner in Kent. He

has been set up as the self- appointed shadow Police

Commissioner. He says the plan was too much rhetoric and not enough

coherent policy. This is a disappointing document. It has been

rushed and no research has been done. It has not been made it

worthwhile document. The plan for a Sussex promises working with

partner organisations and community engagement. But panel set up to

scrutinise the decision has voted it through. There is criticism that

the plan is too short and a fake and she has not given up figures

for crime reduction or how she will deliver constables. And he Smith

voted against approving it. Clear lead the plan was not fit for

purpose. I expected clear targets. But they were completely absent.

What was missing that you were looking for? She had promised

special constables in every village and there has been no reference to

a special constable. Other than a brief line in the budget of

�154,000 for special constables. It is a blank cheque for the

commissioner. Vicky targets have still got to be completed. The plan

is not in any position to say she has failed. Regardless of how she

performs, which is a ridiculous position for the panel to be in.

November election make it would always be a tight timetable to

produce the plans. The documents do not look finished. The Kent one was

very thorough but unstructured. The Sussex one seems very limited in

terms of specifics details on how things will progress. Very mixed

documents. It is the first real test of politics in policing. Block

the promises were made in the election. Now the commissioners are

in the role, can they turn it into reality?

Let's speak to the Sussex Police Commissioner. Let's start with

promises, one of your key pledges in your manifesto was putting an

extra constable, a special constable for every village, by

your calculations, about 144 extra, but you have only put aside

�154,000, how many can you create this year? We begin recruitment

this April. We start recruitment for 120 in addition to the 300 that

the police already have. The 154,000 referred to will cover this.

This includes the �1,000 per constable, to train them. A lot of

the training is done in-house and it includes a refund for the

current specials on a Bear Band D policing precept which was another

manifesto pledge. Councillor Smith was very disingenuous with what he

said. What the panel were asked to look at was a draft priority plan.

Before we mood of that subject, are you sure you have got the figures

correct. It cost several �1,000 to recruit and train, he does that

look like these are figures stack up. We start recruiting 120 this

year and �112,000 begins the recruitment for the Specials. The

remainder of the money well refunds at �138 per constable. When you say

you're beginning recruitment, how many extra or will there be at the

end of the year? There would be an extra 120 specials. That is what

we're doing this year. That will take it up to 420, almost 430,

roughly equivalent to a rural village across a sex. When it

increased the police precept, we're asking has those to pay 5p extracts

from iron bars, you would have a lot further to go if you hadn't

told the Conservative party line had done something a bit braver

with finances. Are disagreed. Time is very important. Sussex residents

be to keep as much money in their pockets as possible. I was elected

on a pledge to freeze the precept and that is what I have done. The

Medium Term Financial Plan that has been modelled at the time, it

allows for this freeze in the precept, so Councillor Smith was

part of that police are authority and fully aware of the plan that

has been put in place and could see how this would be deliver it.

you. Batters the set 6 commissioner, now

we have the Kent commissionaire, nice to have you here. You have

asked the people to pay a bit well for their police force, you

promised an extra 20 constables and 16 Police Committee support

officers, but it is not that much of a dent into the hundreds of

serving officers that will be lost. We were paid more or fewer officers,

not sounding like any for money? is value-for-money because for the

first time we are investing in the service in Kent. There has been no

investment for a number of years. The one thing that people want is

more visible community policing. I am asking people to pay a modest

amount and it is not an awful lot. I did not to its likely big as to

be honest, every penny does count these days. It is a decision I hope

to take. Peter Squires suggested your budget was on structured, Will

you be a bit more focused on exactly what you can achieve in

your first year? Bedroom at it is unstructured I think it is a very

good paper.... I do not think it is a structured. Thanks to the scene

November elections, the time we had to get these budgets at has been

really hard. We have done it ended is very structured. Every single

one of them is in varied every single one of will be achieved by

the end of the year! He made much of falling crime figures we were

campaigning, because you with a chair of the Police Authority

Accounts, and a new study this week suggests that the fall has been

exaggerated. Officers were urged not to record low-level crime. We

look for more accurate recording even if it doesn't make you look

that good? I am pleased that it is falling. It is good news. It is

real. We have an internal investigation at the moment which I

cannot talk about. I am comfortable at the feet his encounter accurate.

They are you happy to continue with all of the money spent on policing

animal exports in Ramsgate, Abu urge the curbing of the protest and

get the exporters to make a contribution? It is a joke of the

money, isn't it? Yes, it is a perfect legal trade debt they have

the right the police have to make sure that there is public or drugs

everyone is safe. It is unfortunate that it is coming through Ramsgate

port in Kent and Kent taxpayers pick up the Bill.

A Thank you. Back to the guests, Henry Smith, there was the

significant point about the timing of the elections, the unstructured

and unfocused police budgets, are they not a payback for holding

elections in November and looking for budgets really quickly? I do

not think the budgets, the ones I have seen, the Sussex one that I

have seen, at Kent and Surrey, I do not think they are unstructured.

They had been put together in a short period of time, but they are

quite robust. Especially for Sussex. How come she has to go back to the

drawing board if it is robust and produce an entirely new document

from our because of the criticism levelled at it for not having

detail? I disagree. I think the Sussex budget has been robust and

his detailed. She is delivering a a manifesto pledge of freezing 0 the

precept on council-tax four or the Sussex Police contribution. That is

an achievement and also introducing the 120 extra special constables is

something that she is working towards in the manifesto pledge and

we are now beginning to see the value of direct democracy in

policing. Caroline Lucas? Are these people do we to make any

difference? Is it is too soon to say it's a well and if it is a

positive or negative to Athens. The Green Party said we did not want to

see the politicisation of the police force. It is great that she

won as an independent, but they do not get the cinema to body to run

their campaign. That would be the same a matter of money to run their

campaign. I think the image of time they had to prepare the budget was

too small. The idea to say the Sussex budget was robust is a joke.

It is little more than a few sizes of their for paper. There is not

the detail their if you're serious about bridging the gap in Sussex.

We have lost 500 officers added murderer due would give 50 staff to

go also. -- and another two would have 50 staff.

Brightening crawl Lee in the top 10 mystics best of places Direct and

mortgages. Brighton and Crawley are in the top

ten most expensive places for rents and mortgages in the country says a

new report - and this could halt economic growth in both areas. The

Centre for Cities think-tank, publishers of the findings says,

the best solution is to build lots of new homes as quickly as possible.

We're lucky to have MPs from both Brighton and Crawley as our guests

of the day - what do you make of this report? In Brighton we do have

more people being employed, we have the fast as level of start-ups for

small businesses, said there is a thriving economy, but you're right

and the report is right to say there is a real problem with

affordable housing. There is an interesting angle on if the

Government should focus money on wealthier areas or struggling areas,

Henry do you agree that you need to build more housing in Crawley?

and I commend the Council for starting to put space in the ground

as we speak about building new houses. There is a new

neighbourhood to the south-west of Crawley been built at the moment.

There are advanced plans for a new neighbour at dinner North East

sector of Crawley. That will deliver more affordable housing.

Those new homes will be able to match the economic vibrancy that we

see in Crawley. The other day, I am honoured by much dropped. --

unemployment dropped. There has come back to Brightman. It is

difficult for that reason, the council estate in a difficult

decision, but it is difficult decision. All G7 Hector's a

beautiful green field sites where there is an abundance of wildlife.

-- 47 actors. People will be a surprise to hear a Green MP same

build on a greenfield site! Wow and endorsing it, it is difficult, but

it has been supported by environmental organisations at the

bottom line is, if we do not good in that plan at the local council,

a reasonable estimate of where we will get more housing from, Bennett

will get overturned, so we need to find more housing. This land is

privately a lewd and could get sold at any time but there could be many

supermarkets at Ayr. If we put that in the plan and as we have, the

vision for that area is for genuine, sustainable, affordable housing.

Desert break your heart to add to endorse that? It is difficult but

it breaks my heart when you walk down the street in Brighton and as

the people sleeping under bridges and in shop fronts. We need to make

difficult decisions but I am excited about this valley site,

because there is real potential to make a genuinely sustainable

community. Fantastic ideas on the council. On balance, that would be

best for the people of Brighton and the economy and it means we can

have control over what to Parliament goes there. Selling the

idea to people that have a home in the constituency that they should

have were building their, it is tough, Henry? People often do not

want a new housing built around them. That is understandable. This

is a new tattoo, virtually every one that lives here has been

migrants from somewhere else, whether it be south London or

elsewhere. Gig is whole! A minute to Crawley and eyelet in a new

housing Crawley had was very grateful for that. We need to be

careful before criticising new housing when it is needed, when

most people in Crawley have at some stage in the not too distant past

occupied a new house themselves. bran tub of the week's events there

with our reporter is in 60 seconds. Not commercially viable and harmful

to the environment, that is the damning conclusion of an

independent survey into plans for an airport in North Kent. Former

Gillingham MP Paul Clark wrote the report. It is not backed by British

Airways or the Government or the mayor of London. Julian Brazier

from Canterbury is called up the Children's Minister to make it

easier for white couples to adopt multi-racial children.

More places will be created in local schools.

He has succeeded in outlying squatting, now wife Gwen Bailey

Tracey Emin has hit out at plans to drop art from the GCSE curriculum

at once there could be rights in the streets.

-- riots in the streets! What do you think? They is a lot of strong

feeling, whether it is enough to have rioting, I'm not sure. There

is a feeling of not putting enough weight on the arts in the new

curriculum. Reduce stand on art in schools? Are

important? I it is of course important did nobody is suggesting

that creativity will disappear from the curriculum, but we need to have

a greater focus on some of the core subjects that actually mean there

will be good quality jobs in the future. John is in Brighton at the

creative industries. Despite the jobs at Brighton. We need to make

sure that we invest in core subjects like technology and

engineering arms chemistry and so forth. These are the backbone of