03/02/2013 Sunday Politics South East

�32 billion has been set aside for high-speed rail. Has the Government

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2424 seconds

loan to any lessons from Kent's Hello, I am Natalie Graham. Coming

up later: Adriana resources or if it falls source of labour?

-- and drain on resources. Joining me to date Gareth Johnson

and Trudy Dean. First, Tunbridge Wells City Council is amongst the

local of priorities which have been called democracy dodgers By Eric

Pickles. They're planning to raise council tax without a local

referendum. The Conservative leaders have written to the Prime

Minister protesting at the negative comments being directed at hard-

pressed local authorities by government ministers. Trudy Dean,

you must have some sympathy with your opposite number in this

situation. All free authorities are pushing in a legal budget. Eric

Pickles is saying he wants to change the rules. What has shocked

me about Mr Carter's letter is it was written with 30 other

conservative leaders across the country and it pleads for a better

councillors pensions and it pleads for the survival of the

Conservative Party at the next election. He should be asking for a

better welfare, benefits and the unfair council tax changes to be

dumped. They will all be affecting the poorest people in society.

Gareth Johnson, either way you look at it, you grassroots members, the

people you will need at the next election are being given negative

comments by a government minister. It will not look good. It is quite

natural for any local authority to say they want more money. I think

there is no excuse for any council not to freeze its council tax this

year. Kent County Council has done that. I commend them for doing so.

They have managed to do so without affecting frontline services which

is vital as well. You are not concerned about the tone of

language being used by Eric Pickles? I think it is perfectly

understandable when local-authority leaders say, we need as much

assistance as you can give to us a resort with the problem is that we

have both got. The Government has announced plans for the North to

South HS2. It will cost �32 billion but we are promised economic

regeneration. Similar claims were made when HS1 was launched a decade

The Government is going full steam ahead with plans for HS2. But has

HS1 put the South East on the fast track to economic boom? It promised

London to the -- in less than an hour. And economic regeneration

with billions to the South East economy. So, have journey times

reduced? It is 37 minutes from Ashford to reach London and the

service is reliable. Although the new trains run from stations around

the east Kent, mainly get faster when they joined the high-speed

line. For commuters, St Pancras is not a convenient destination for

working in the city. I have taken that journey and I got to my desk

20 minutes after I would have done that if I had taken my regular

service. John's MP promises the high-speed says -- says promises

the high-speed line would join more lines has not been kept. This was

done on the understanding that that behind east Kent would benefit, we

have not got that benefit. The Kent Coast line is slower still to make

way for the fast trains from Ashford. By that time domestic

trains were added to Eurostar services four years ago, building

the high-speed line had already gone 18% over budget. Passenger

numbers were overestimated with less than a third of the predicted

Eurostar travellers. As a result, it is taxpayers were picking up the

cost. They are expected to reach �10.2 billion in 60 years. That is

compared to an estimated value up on journeys savings of �6 million.

South-east commuters have borne the brunt with increased fare ticket

prices. As a commuter, we are taxpayers, we are also funding real

trouble. We're being hit with high taxes, higher rail fares. It is not

fair. There are no firm figures to show how many jobs have been

created. But experts say lack of joined-up thinking means towns in

Kent have not enjoyed the regeneration they were promised.

New developments have yet to materialise. In Ashford, employment

and house prices have risen slower than in neighbouring towns.

problem with Ashford is you have the station and the railway which

divide the town. It creates a bit of a waste land here. If you had

development close and a rounded it would create a business environment.

This Economist says the Government has not done enough to attract

private investment to Kent. There are lessons to be learned, but it

shows that you need to have some sort of additional planning

development that goes around it. Just putting in a new rail line

does not create development in itself. With HS2 connections from

London to the north in place, would Kent's are a club get any better?

lot would depend on whether HS1 is properly linked to HS2. How many

services from the North of England would be allowed to go through,

would they be economic revival? The original plan with HS1 was for

services to run through to Manchester and Leeds. With

questions over its value for money and economic benefits, shouldn't

the Government sought out the problems of high speed one before

spending �32 billion of taxpayers' money on a project that could go

off the rails? Earlier I spoke to the transport

minister and Norman Baker in his constituency about the claims made

in that report. Do you agree that HS1 has not

delivered all benefits week that were promised. It has been very

good for Kent and the UK. A report suggested it created 100,000 jobs,

and brought �20 billion of benefit to the UK plc. The National Audit

Office last year had a different view of HS1. Financially it is

predicted to be a disaster. �10 billion to the taxpayer in 60

years' time. It is not in a disaster. The Eurostar has more and

more passengers. We are seeing more destinations coming on line. The

intention is to link through to Amsterdam and Frankfurt and

portance cities such as that. With HS2, we will see trains going from

places like M there right the way through to Frankfurt. Most people

in the South East are worried about getting to London and doing their

job. We heard the commuter who said it takes 20 minutes longer any goes

to the wrong station. It is a worse service but they are paying more

for a it. I have sympathy for people who feel they're being

disadvantaged. We embarked upon, as a government, the largest rail

improvements since the 19th century. There is a huge investment and I

want to make sure everyone across the country benefits. As part of

this multi-billion pound investment in the railways, could people have

that extension they were promised all those years ago? I do not know

who promised them or what point, but I'm not quite sure of a high-

speed extension is likely to occur. It is important we do what we can

to help people in the commuter areas around London to make sure

the local train does not get worse, and of course in terms of fares.

The Government is committed to ending the above-inflation

increases. Of you see the impact of commuter fares is higher on my

agenda. Many people feel they are paying higher fares, the taxpayer

has been saddled with nearly �5 billion of debt because of HS1, and

they're not getting any benefits. Slower trains now going where they

want. The point I had just made you is there has been a significant

increase in jobs and houses in the Kent area as a consequence of a HS1.

The environment will downsize we were told about when HS1 was

planned, they have not materialised. I remember seeing on the news it

would destroy Kent countryside. We have heard no complaints about the

environmental impact. Kent should be buoyant about the fact they have

a high-speed line there, it is a showcase for the country. It has

been good for Kent and good for the UK. There have been issues around

the Kent line and we are not oblivious to them. When it comes to

HS2, people will hear what you're saying about economic benefits to

the north. These disgruntled people in the South East would argue they

are not getting the benefits from HS1, might they feel -- might they

not feel that HS2 will not do anything economic league for the

South East of England? It will put Ashford in a position where the

connections are simpler to the Continent and better connections

north. There will be trains from Ashford for, say, Edinburgh. They

will be part of a high-speed network, rather than a single line.

Gareth Johnson, I will put the same point to you. Most people in north

Kent are not seeing the benefits of HS1, but they have to pay more for

it. I remember when HS1 was first envisaged, and we had the same

argument then as we are having now with HS2. Most of the fears people

had with HS1 have not materialised. I accept that there are some issues.

Would you not rather see the Government's spending 32 billion on

an extension to the HS1 and improve the whole network rather than

putting one controversial line through the North? I can understand

why people would want that. I would like to see CrossRail out of

Dartford. But if you look at what has happened at HS1. Blue water

came in part because of it. I accept there is down sides like

parking and fares to use the service, but generally it has been

a good thing for the area. Trudy Dean, where do you stand on this?

You were in the west of the area. Have you seen any benefits? I have

seen at a loss of domestic services on the Maidstone line. At the same

time, we can go and pick up the high-speed rail line which reduces

the time into London for just over an hour and a quarter down to 40

minutes. There are some lessons to be learned in Kent, we need to look

at a faster planning system. It looks 16 years to get HS1 into

place, we do not want to see that replicated. We want to see higher

compensation so people Laura affected can be sorted more quickly.

Do you think there is anything that could have been done in retrospect

to make sure that regeneration at Ashford could have happened? It is

very difficult. We have to look set it in terms of the recession we are

now in. In that location there is double the number of people using

the high-speed line to get into London. We have all thought about

economic development as attracting business into Kent, there's very

little evidence of that. But it has expanded London's commuter-belt.

Tens of thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians could come and settle in

the South East when EU labour restrictions are lifted at the

beginning of next year. The head of the Brighton Housing Trust has

reportedly concerned about adding to the City's housing problems.

Kent fruit farmers are worried they are going to lose their seasonal

agricultural workers if the Romanian and Bulgarian workers they

currently rely on decide to take better-paid long-term jobs

elsewhere. Joining us is the Bulgarian ambassador. Hello, I

wonder if you could answer a few questions for us. How many people

from your country do you think would want to come to the UK that

are not already here? This is very hard to predict. It is wrong to say

that there will be an opening of the markets from a situation of

four but then sectors, the year 2014 will see a limitation of the

current restrictions to a fuller access. It is very wrong to suggest

that people just out of the Pru will get away from its seasonal

work to a more highly qualified job as if they could get a miraculous

qualifications. Seasonal workers may continue to work the seasonal

work. Hire qualified work make fill posts that you're economy needs.

What you make of the idea that the British government will discourage

people from your country to come here? This has been disproved by

the acting ambassador for the UK. The ladies said Bulgarians and

Romanians are welcome to work legally in the UK in accordance

with the UK and European legislation before and after the

first January, 20 fort team. -- 2014. Apparently the Romanians are

fighting back with their own advert. Maybe you would like to tell us why

people from your country would make good employees. Because this has

been the situation since the start of the democratic changes in Europe.

The Bulgarians at work like doctors, nurses and strawberry pickers. And

social workers caring for the elderly and children in the UK.

They are well integrated and have good speaking and linguistic skills.

Indeed their numbers are very low and could not represent any threat

to the labour market of the United Kingdom. Gareth Johnson, are you

concerned about the term the Government is adopting about being

so negative about encouraging workers to the UK? William Hague

made it clear last week in the House of Commons. There is no

intention of putting out videos in any way critical of Bulgaria or

Romania. Or vice versa. We have got to understand that of course people

are concerned we will have uncontrolled immigration coming

into this country. The Government must look if there are steps we can

take to mitigate any problems that may occur. There's also a danger we

could over react to this situation. In Ireland and France they lifted

their restrictions completely and have had no difficulties whatsoever.

They have not had the numbers coming into those countries they

were concerned about. Trudy Dean, I mentioned in the beginning a lot of

farmers are concerned about this seasonal agricultural workers they

rely on going for better-paid jobs, perhaps in care homes are in the

city. Is that something to worry about? I think it is fairly

unlikely. People who come over, usually come over for part of the

year and then go back again. I do think Gareth is right, we do need

to be concerned. The ambassador is correct, we do need skilled workers

to keep our services running, but when we are looking at the

situation in the UK we have a recession. A lot of people are

unemployed and clearly we are going to be concerned. No-one is

collecting reliable data. We do not have figures on any of this. We

have to get that data before we can have a sensible conversation.

Government does not want to do at the last government did and

underestimate the number of migrant workers. That is right. We had to

work very hard reducing the number of people coming to this country.

More needs to be done. It is time for a round-up of the week's

political -- events. Kent County Council wants 44

primary schools to take on extra pupils next year to me to a severe

shortage of places. Parents say roads to village schools cannot

cope. Over 50% occupancy will be from outside the area. You can only

us in those people will drive. million a was spent on high a speed

of gambling machines in Medway last year. They say they are saving

taxpayers' money by not asking for council housing, but the council

wants so-called land Weller's band. There is relief for two MPs who

could sit -- whose constituencies will not be under threat after

plans for boundary changes will not Good for communities and good for

some Liberal Democrat MPs. Gareth Johnson, you may be could have

afforded to lose Hugh Roberts in terms of the Conservative hold, but

the Lib Dems could not. It is absolutely right you have a member

of parliament representing the same number of people and that is our

intention with the boundary changes. At the moment we could beat that

Labour Party by 2 million but still only win one seat. It has ensured

that the weight of people's vote in one area is different to another.

Some MPs represent 50,000 people, some represent 100,000 people. That

needed to change. People objected to these boundary proposals which

give us an extraordinary shipped constituency. It was very unpopular

locally, I am pleased to see it gone. One question about school

places, this is a big problem in this part of the world, is it right

to encourage people from outside the area to other schools? We have

an increase in the birthrate and we have to provide for those children.

Parents are quite right to be concerned about safety outside the

school gates. The Liberal Democrats have suggested in every manifesto