06/10/2013 Sunday Politics South East


06/10/2013

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He will try to force a vote in the October. Home Secretary Theresa

:00:10.:02:07.

He will try to force a vote in the was asked about his plans on the BBC

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earlier this morning. I think he has got it wrong, I think what we need

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to do is to negotiate the settlement with the European Union and then put

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that to the people me to decide whether to be in or out. Is this a

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flea bite or a real threat? I think the next election, a Conservative

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Party that will be offering people that renegotiation, a new settlement

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with Europe, looking to the future and putting that to the British

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people in and in or out referendum. And what the amendment possibly

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could do, as James Wharton, who And what the amendment possibly

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putting the Referendum Bill through Parliament has said, is it could

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jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie joins us now from Millbank studio.

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Good morning. If the referendum would be held next October, it would

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have to be an in-out question based the status quo? There wouldn't be

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time for a full renegotiation. I disagree. By having a referendum in

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2014, it gives us 12 months to renegotiate, but it kick-started

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negotiations, because the European Union, if they wish us to remain

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and make changes so that they would members, would need to accommodate

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and make changes so that they would persuade the British public to stay,

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strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time

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for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has

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not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our

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timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I

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think, basically, 80% of people incredibly, located renegotiation. I

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a referendum. More than 50% what a election. British businesses need

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certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for

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ever, but I have struggled with taking a scan down the road for

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conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is

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essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their

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souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That

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would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I

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said, it strengthens the Prime Minister's hand if it is successful.

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You right in the Mail on Sunday Minister's hand if it is successful.

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the people are not convinced there even will be a referendum, so they

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don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I

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wrote for that piece. What I am You are saying that the British

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people are not convinced. Look, there are too many uncertainties

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here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election,

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I hope we will, they may not be convinced the renegotiation will be

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good enough, that there will be convinced the renegotiation will be

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referendum. Do you trust David That is why we need to bring the

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referendum forward, there is time to negotiate, and we tidy up the issue

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that has been hanging around for too long. Do you trust David Cameron to

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deliver a referendum in 2017? I Minister, and of course I trust

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deliver a referendum in 2017? I referendum? There as only variables

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in between. What I am doing with referendum? There as only variables

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this amendment, is to try to be referendum? There as only variables

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is that Parliament and every MP referendum? There as only variables

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the opportunity decide whether they want to be sure of a referendum

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within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may

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within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got

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your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

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leave as of today, but there will be Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

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an enormous amount of pressure on European Union leaders to come

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forward with proposals. If they European Union leaders to come

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to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is ever

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closer trading harmony, giving us closer trading harmony, giving us

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more border control and control closer trading harmony, giving us

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our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to

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happen - if we have a referendum in happen - if we have a referendum in

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negotiations to be kick-started happen - if we have a referendum in

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people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime

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Minister. Is it true that you have end result is a stronger Prime

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Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It

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certain, and I think we will see it on hold over the next three or five

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weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you,

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is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and I know

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cross-party, for people who want the British public to have a say in

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2014. You know it is not going to get through, the whips will stop

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this from happening. One of the successes, apparently, of your

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party's Manchester conference was that you were not divided over

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Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it

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Europe anymore, the Europe issue was back to life and pouring petrol

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Europe anymore, the Europe issue was unlicensed troublemaker of the

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Tories? The only struggle I have had is not a fight with my party but

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Tories? The only struggle I have had with my conscience as to whether or

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not I would give Parliament and with my conscience as to whether or

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British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

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it, and I decided I wanted people to have that opportunity. It is for

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each individual MP to search their soul, speak to constituents and

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decide whether they want that. You decided it would get you in the

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headlines again. Oh, you are so cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition

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publicity seeker. All I seek is cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition

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would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this

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opportunity for Britain to have if I did not bring forward this

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say. We have left it far too long. Nobody under the age of 56 has had a

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say. Thanks for joining us, good luck with this continuing struggle

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with your conscience! I will move the seat around and addressed the

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panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious with

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him. I think what this confirms party managers must be furious with

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that David Cameron is incredibly lucky in his enemies. His most

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prolific critics, Nadine Dorries, Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if

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you are very anti-Cameron, you will not think, man, if only they were in

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charge of the party! I think the party managers are not too alarmed.

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They do not take him seriously? No, is not as if the James Wharton bill

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is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes.

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It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in the

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next Parliament. My understanding of theoretically impossible and that

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all the future government would theoretically impossible and that

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is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that

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Cameron's plan for a referendum bill. He does have a point that

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nothing like as likely to happen... dangerous. The problem for David

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Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support

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Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would

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Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he might do is say to

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his MPs, ignore this. It may well be significant number of Labour MPs do

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not turn up, and then what you have Conservative backbenchers, and in

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that war you might well find that through, and then the Prime Minister

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has real trouble, because Adam Afriyie says, the Prime Minister

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membership, up what basis and with which mandate? He would not be able

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to get agreement with Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband, so you would be looking

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think he is a Labour mole, that Ed Miliband, so you would be looking

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what I have come to, a Daily Mail style conspiracy theory, it could

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not be more perfect. The prospect of style conspiracy theory, it could

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a referendum on the EU at the same time as Scottish independence is

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has told us he could not sleep at conscience. We could send him some

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pills, I suppose. We know he's going to sack all those lieutenants were

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going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of

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the Conservative Party. He denied doing that! He would be amazed to

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hear you say that, this is a crisis conversations in corridors, quite an

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operation to get letters into Graham Brady, he said to have letters,

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operation to get letters into Graham 46, but at the moment this campaign

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is being run by Lieutenant of Adam They are disaffected and not happy

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under David Cameron's leadership. There is a whole army of them! I am

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pleased he has outmanoeuvred the awkward squad, and now James Wharton

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is saying, you're going to kill awkward squad, and now James Wharton

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bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main

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episode is it will unify a large Conservative Party behind David

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Cameron. On what they hope is a settled position. We still hope

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Cameron. On what they hope is a be talking to John Prescott, who is

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in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do

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you want to buy a house? Can you afford the mortgage repayments but

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not the 20% or 30% deposit the mortgage provider is demanding from

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you? The Government says it has mortgage provider is demanding from

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scheme designed for you which is in launching next week, help to buy,

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re-emergence of 95% mortgages, remember them?! But is the policy

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really good for home-buyers or the British economy? Here is Giles.

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Never mind who lives in a house British economy? Here is Giles.

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this, who can afford to buy a house these days? The Government would

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this, who can afford to buy a house like many more people to be able to

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without putting down a crippling like many more people to be able to

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without putting down a crippling amount of money as a deposit, and in

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the spirit of rights to buy, the government has launched help to

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the spirit of rights to buy, the confusingly it is the name for two

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been running since April. Help to government are bringing it in early.

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Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this

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scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really

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works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is

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works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity it was for new build only, up to a

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value of £600,000. But it is Help to value of £600,000. But it is Help to

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Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up

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to a value, again, of £600,000. right now. It is for any property up

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time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first

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losses should the home owner in that it will take on the first

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future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if

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you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the

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5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating

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banks and building societies. And a housing prime mover. You cannot

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get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even, so there are couples in

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our country who have good jobs, decent incomes, they could afford

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the mortgage payments but they failure in our banking market. So

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Jonathan, but I guess for you this is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a

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main impact of this scheme will is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a

:13:44.:13:50.

to push up prices, who does that benefit? Mostly rich and all the

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people who own their houses. Plus the banks, of course, because it is

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a subsidy for them. Who loses? People who want to buy a house in

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the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd that the Government says it

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the future. Moreover, it is a bit not OK to borrow to finance schools

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or roads, but it is fine for the effectively, in order to guarantee

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housing market. 2.3 million? I do not think Help to Buy covers that.

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But enter a would-be buyer, will they now be seeing a plethora of

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help to buy mortgages? In a word, no. David Cameron has brought the

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months, and banks were not ready at that stage. Two banks have committed

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to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the RBS group, so lenders like

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Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will be doing the scheme, but even once

:14:49.:14:52.

the scheme is up and running you are probably find 95% mortgages on the

:14:52.:15:00.

high street because of the guarantee the government is offering. People

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might say this is how we got into a mess in the first place. Why would

:15:09.:15:13.

the government want to make those products available then now? It

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the government want to make those more what investment banks were

:15:20.:15:22.

doing in the background that caused performed extremely well through the

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depths of the downturn. Is this performed extremely well through the

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game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few years

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but this has enabled me to make best to save over the last few years

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first purchase. How frustrating best to save over the last few years

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it just renting? Very frustrating, you are throwing away money hand

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over fist, and now I can take that enthusiasm raises a question back at

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the flat. If you are looking for a 95% mortgage, you don't really care

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economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a

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house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term

:16:14.:16:21.

economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to pull

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off is that home-buyers might be so grateful for the opportunity to

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off is that home-buyers might be so their own homes that they reward the

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Government with the vote, while their own homes that they reward the

:16:32.:16:34.

the same time the Government tries to sidestep consequences that such a

:16:35.:16:51.

Now Conservative MP Margot James, and Allister Heath, editor of City

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It is said by the critics that this scheme will cause a housing bubble.

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Where is the evidence? House prices are more varied. Housing not just in

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London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is that it

:17:17.:17:22.

will pump up house prices, it will therefore houses will become even

:17:22.:17:30.

more overvalued. That is a dangerous territory, last time it ended in

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tears, and now the Government is taking on the risk of that policy.

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What do you say to that? We have a real problem, it takes people on

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average until they are 38 years real problem, it takes people on

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property. The problem is not that they cannot afford it, but they

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cannot afford the deposit. We have got to do something to allow people

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to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will

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cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any

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have had a record this year, 12 months to right now, the record

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have had a record this year, 12 the last ten years. These are not

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the statistics I have seen, but the last ten years. These are not

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new supply is coming up. It is starting to creep up. We don't see

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enough house building, need to build more houses and that is a solution

:18:46.:18:50.

to this problem. You are right, people cannot afford to buy homes

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and the reason is there are not enough good quality homes in the

:18:54.:18:59.

deposits are so high is because secondly the Government has passed

:18:59.:19:03.

laws to make the banking system secondly the Government has passed

:19:03.:19:07.

prudent, telling them to put more wrong. Now suddenly the Government

:19:07.:19:15.

is not happy with the outcome of its own rules and is trying to create

:19:15.:19:19.

these subsidies to circumvent the rules it has put in place. It is not

:19:19.:19:26.

a subsidy. Don't forget banks have to pay a charge in order to take

:19:26.:19:31.

part in this loan scheme and that the... You are guaranteeing the

:19:32.:19:38.

money. Yes, but the fear is worked out on a commercial basis. The

:19:38.:19:41.

taxpayer is protected. Why? You out on a commercial basis. The

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guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes but the

:19:48.:19:54.

change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in

:19:54.:19:59.

response of the crash. They made the distressed test on people applying

:19:59.:20:02.

for mortgages much higher and you twice... So it will not be like

:20:03.:20:12.

these self certification mortgages handed out in America that caused

:20:13.:20:19.

the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit like that but the banks are rightly

:20:19.:20:23.

asking for bigger deposits, they know there is a big chance house

:20:24.:20:28.

prices could fall if interest rates eventually, so they are demanding

:20:28.:20:33.

bigger deposits. The Government eventually, so they are demanding

:20:33.:20:38.

circumventing this is being passed eventually, so they are demanding

:20:38.:20:41.

on to the taxpayers which is why it is a dangerous policy. Instead they

:20:41.:20:45.

should be massively accelerating Planning permission is much easier

:20:45.:20:54.

to get now, we have seen a 49% increase in planning permission

:20:54.:20:58.

to get now, we have seen a 49% a new building over the last year, a

:20:58.:20:58.

huge increase. In the figures I a new building over the last year, a

:20:58.:21:04.

recently, they showed new start a new building over the last year, a

:21:04.:21:08.

the 12 months to the autumn were only about 110,000 which is the

:21:08.:21:11.

figure you inherited, which was only about 110,000 which is the

:21:11.:21:17.

an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the last quarter are third

:21:17.:21:23.

up on the time last year. You have relaxation of planning laws and

:21:23.:21:28.

up on the time last year. You have other policies the Government put

:21:28.:21:30.

into effect last year to take effect and it is coming through now. I

:21:30.:21:36.

agree, if we weren't building more houses, if the construction sector

:21:36.:21:42.

advantage of the increased demand, there would be a risk. David Cameron

:21:42.:21:48.

says you are snob and it is only snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They

:21:48.:21:57.

don't have the bank of mum and dad, people like that will finally get on

:21:57.:22:03.

the housing ladder. That is complete nonsense. We need a sustainable

:22:03.:22:06.

housing market where there is a large amount of construction, like

:22:06.:22:11.

in the 1930s for example, where large numbers of proper family homes

:22:11.:22:18.

were being built for people. House prices were pushed down and people

:22:18.:22:24.

could afford houses. You are now encouraging people to take out a 95%

:22:25.:22:29.

mortgage, I thought that was a bad idea, so supposing interest rates go

:22:29.:22:38.

struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced

:22:38.:22:43.

with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford.

:22:43.:22:48.

95% mortgage, if you can afford interest rates that I cannot afford.

:22:48.:22:54.

repayments, you will be fine. What happens when interest rates rise?

:22:54.:23:00.

They have got to rise a lot before you get into trouble. People are

:23:00.:23:02.

already affording rent which is you get into trouble. People are

:23:02.:23:08.

lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into

:23:08.:23:15.

this scheme unless you can afford repayments double what they are

:23:15.:23:20.

this scheme unless you can afford the moment. The Conservatives should

:23:20.:23:24.

limelight last week but there was an unwelcome intruder in the shape

:23:24.:23:30.

limelight last week but there was an row between Ed Miliband and the

:23:30.:23:32.

Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the claiming that Ed Miliband's Father

:23:32.:23:40.

Ralph hated Britain. They showed a picture of his father's gravestone

:23:40.:23:47.

with the caption, grave socialist. They then removed the photo and

:23:47.:23:52.

with the caption, grave socialist. Ed Miliband the right to reply on

:23:52.:23:56.

printed an editorial alongside it saying they stood by every word

:23:56.:24:00.

printed an editorial alongside it published an fair headline. It also

:24:00.:24:05.

reporter had gate-crashed a private memorial service for Ed Miliband's

:24:06.:24:10.

uncle in a London hospital, for which the paper has now apologised,

:24:10.:24:14.

but Ed Miliband has called on the hard look at the way his papers

:24:15.:24:23.

but Ed Miliband has called on the run. This comes a week before a

:24:23.:24:30.

but Ed Miliband has called on the Joining us now from Hull, John

:24:30.:24:30.

Prescott. Does this row between Joining us now from Hull, John

:24:31.:24:42.

reinforce the case for tough, new certainly influences the opinion

:24:42.:24:49.

about that but that is more of Paul Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang

:24:49.:24:53.

about that but that is more of Paul while I was in Strasbourg making

:24:53.:24:54.

sure my complaints were nothing while I was in Strasbourg making

:24:54.:24:58.

do with press regulation and he while I was in Strasbourg making

:24:58.:25:04.

right. This argument is not about politicians and media people, it is

:25:04.:25:07.

about ordinary people that love politicians and media people, it is

:25:07.:25:15.

and dealt with. All of these cases affected individual people and they

:25:15.:25:20.

are the ones that need to have justice in this matter. Next week we

:25:21.:25:26.

will be hearing whether the Privy Council will be reporting on the

:25:26.:25:32.

proposal to replace it. Are you agreeing then that what the mail did

:25:33.:25:37.

have identified a supply of land in their emerging new plans, and we

:25:37.:41:41.

discovered that no new sites have been created in Kent and Sussex in

:41:41.:41:45.

the last five years, although some have been extended. Charities

:41:45.:41:50.

working with travellers and gypsies say there is a real shortage of

:41:50.:41:56.

accommodation, that councils just are not addressing. There are

:41:56.:42:00.

certain strategic pieces of planning that have to really be addressed at

:42:00.:42:04.

national level and not at local level, and one of those is the

:42:04.:42:09.

provision of Gypsy and Traveller sites. If you just leave it to local

:42:09.:42:13.

people, there would not be a site built anywhere, I don't think. Even

:42:13.:42:21.

those local authorities who take things seriously and say they're

:42:21.:42:25.

going to develop a site, very often what happens is the local opposition

:42:25.:42:29.

becomes mobilised, the placards come out, there is angry residents

:42:29.:42:34.

meetings, marchers on the town hall, and the local authority gets

:42:34.:42:40.

cold feet and drops its proposals. A public consultation on the proposals

:42:40.:42:44.

is likely to start in the next few weeks. Meanwhile, three generations

:42:44.:42:48.

of this family hope that their dream of living together at a permanent

:42:48.:42:55.

site will become a reality soon. They were young women like us when

:42:55.:42:59.

they came to this town. Is it going to be that case for our kids? I

:42:59.:43:02.

don't know. It would be a shame. We're joined now by Clarance

:43:02.:43:05.

Mitchell — he is the Conservative parliamentary candidate for Brighton

:43:05.:43:07.

Pavillion, he's in our Westminster studio.

:43:07.:43:14.

The work we heard from, they want a good, settled, stable life, a home

:43:14.:43:18.

for their families just like the rest of us. Is that too much to ask?

:43:18.:43:22.

If they choose to settle and put roots down, if you like, they are

:43:22.:43:27.

entitled to do that wherever they wish. There are also entitled to do

:43:27.:43:36.

it as travellers. Our objection to do this site is not anti—traveller,

:43:36.:43:41.

and it is ridiculous to say that we are racist, and somehow. It is about

:43:41.:43:45.

the practicalities of this particular site. It is the wrong

:43:45.:43:49.

proposal in the wrong place. People fought long and hard to get this

:43:49.:43:53.

designated as a national park, and it should be protected. You say the

:43:53.:44:01.

Conservatives in Brighton and how say it sets a dangerous precedent,

:44:01.:44:06.

but this park is huge and diverse, it covers hundreds of miles. I use

:44:06.:44:10.

saying there should be no homes anywhere, or just no new traveller

:44:10.:44:15.

homes? They should not be large and camps like this being set. 12 sites?

:44:15.:44:23.

Is that large? It is the principle of it. This could bring in over 100

:44:23.:44:29.

vehicles if those sites are fully occupied. That itself will cause

:44:29.:44:33.

massive access problems. There is only one Small Rd to it. There could

:44:33.:44:37.

be all sorts of tensions, even between the travellers. The main

:44:37.:44:46.

thing is the danger for water contamination. This site is above a

:44:46.:44:51.

tunnel that draws the water off to a small pumping station and then write

:44:51.:44:58.

down to the town. It is not just a local problem for the people in

:44:58.:45:03.

areas nearby. This is a potential problem, there are a lot of

:45:03.:45:06.

questions about water contamination that have not been answered. You say

:45:06.:45:14.

the site is on top of this major tunnel. What are you saying? Is it a

:45:14.:45:19.

suggestion that travellers will go to the toilet straight onto the

:45:19.:45:23.

ground? Are we talking about application and urination? I'm being

:45:23.:45:26.

blunt and this is not anti—traveller, but in the cases of

:45:26.:45:31.

whether have been unauthorised encroachments into other park

:45:31.:45:36.

areas, gas, public areas are used for just the purposes you described,

:45:36.:45:41.

with no attempt to clear it up. But this site would be connected to the

:45:41.:45:45.

mains sewerage. That is another concern, I know. But there

:45:45.:45:49.

government money set aside for creating permanent travellers sites

:45:49.:45:55.

which is not being spent. You also worried about them going to the loo

:45:55.:45:59.

in the field. If they get there sooner connection, there is

:45:59.:46:03.

government money to do it. Problem solved. In this case, a proper sewer

:46:03.:46:09.

will be built, that will be hugely expensive, it has to be built to

:46:09.:46:15.

join the main sewer. On top of that, our concern is that General

:46:15.:46:19.

contamination from the site can sink down 55 metres straight into this

:46:19.:46:25.

tunnel, there is a cesspit which is not big enough for the people who

:46:25.:46:28.

been using the existing site, let alone another influx of families.

:46:28.:46:33.

This is not anti—traveller, it's about it being a protected area. You

:46:33.:46:38.

keep making that point, but it is interesting, on your own website,

:46:38.:46:44.

you celebrate the cultural diversity of Brighton. Diversity is about more

:46:44.:46:47.

than enjoying gay pride. These are your constituents. Does diversity

:46:47.:46:54.

stop at their doors? Many of these people are not constituents. They

:46:54.:46:58.

are mobile, they are not registered voters. The family in our report

:46:58.:47:02.

have been living in the area of the decades. I'm not going to talk about

:47:02.:47:07.

individuals. We believe as a group that this site is a wrong site for a

:47:07.:47:12.

camp of this size and nature. If people do want to settle and stop

:47:12.:47:15.

travelling, that is their right, but they need to be encouraged to buy a

:47:15.:47:20.

plot of land, to apply for proper planning commission and to pay the

:47:20.:47:26.

council tax. There was an obligation here, the suggestion from Clarence

:47:26.:47:30.

Mitchell as they need to go do this by themselves. Henry Smith, there is

:47:30.:47:36.

an obligation by local authorities. Writing and to doing what they are

:47:36.:47:40.

required to do, they are binding and setting aside land. —— Brighton and

:47:40.:47:46.

Hove are doing what they are required to do. And then you get

:47:46.:47:54.

local opposition to bits. Settled people are so opposed, does this not

:47:54.:47:57.

need to be taken up at national level? I think it is absurd that a

:47:57.:48:04.

local planning matters should be decided at national level. That is

:48:04.:48:10.

top down, demand controlled... Well, one of your Conservative MPs

:48:10.:48:14.

says he is going to take this step Eric Pickles, say he wants to refer

:48:14.:48:20.

it up to national level. I think Mike Weatherly is right that local

:48:20.:48:24.

people 's concern should be addressed. If we have a democratic

:48:24.:48:28.

process, that needs to be respected. They looked at 50 sites, and it

:48:28.:48:33.

wasn't just the City Council, it was the South Downs Park authority and

:48:33.:48:35.

their criteria as well. the South Downs Park authority and

:48:35.:48:40.

would be expected to pay council tax, anti—social behaviour would not

:48:40.:48:45.

be tolerated. What is the problem? I think why many people get upset at

:48:45.:48:49.

the prospect of a traveller site near to their homes is because of

:48:49.:48:53.

the experience they have had in the past when travelling communities

:48:53.:48:59.

have come through. That is why people are very concerned and they

:48:59.:49:01.

feel there is not a level playing field, there isn't a fair system.

:49:01.:49:07.

That is why it is right that local authorities who are democratically

:49:07.:49:09.

elected should be deciding these issues. Tristan, you are a Medway

:49:09.:49:15.

Council. Your authority has not created any new traveller sites in

:49:15.:49:19.

the last ideas. Would you to change that? —— in the last ideas. Well,

:49:19.:49:28.

the previous administration looked at a site in the centre of Brighton

:49:28.:49:33.

which is on a former rubbish tip which had significant issues around

:49:33.:49:36.

pollution, and yet they were very happy to place people there. Put

:49:36.:49:41.

your money where your mouth is, let's talk about your council,

:49:41.:49:47.

Medway. Should you be looking at new sites? First of all, it is a

:49:47.:49:52.

Conservative administration. But would you, I'm asking you. You would

:49:52.:49:57.

like to be in control one day, presumably. We need to take the

:49:57.:50:01.

toxicity out of this debate. We absolutely have a responsibility to

:50:01.:50:06.

house people. This has been going on for three or four years in Brighton.

:50:06.:50:11.

It's going to go on for longer because there will be public

:50:11.:50:15.

consultation on this one. Thank you both, and our prankster Clarence

:50:15.:50:20.

Mitchell. Now, Dave doesn't want one, Nick

:50:20.:50:24.

does and, well, Ed agrees with Nick. The 'mansion tax' has showed up some

:50:24.:50:27.

clear blue water between the two parties in the Coalition Government,

:50:27.:50:30.

and has placed Labour squarely in support of the Liberal Democrats on

:50:30.:50:33.

this key policy. Outside London, the South East has nearly 60% of the

:50:33.:50:36.

country's most expensive properties, so it's the kind of issue that may

:50:36.:50:41.

play big on the doorstep. In our Westminster studio now is

:50:41.:50:44.

James Flanagan who is the Liberal Democrat candidate for Canterbury

:50:44.:50:52.

and Whitstable. This mansion tax, by my reckoning,

:50:52.:50:57.

page 14 of the Lib Dems last manifesto. How committed is the

:50:57.:51:01.

party to it now? We are very committed, we think it is a very

:51:01.:51:07.

fair tax. It will affect less than 1% of properties across the country.

:51:07.:51:11.

We believe it will bring in the best part of £2 billion which can be

:51:11.:51:16.

spent in other schemes, for example, put it towards lower income tax in

:51:16.:51:23.

the future. Less than 1% across the country, but it could affect quite

:51:23.:51:26.

icky people in your prospective constituency. It's not going to play

:51:26.:51:34.

out well back, is it? The average house price here is about £230,000.

:51:34.:51:40.

That does not mean there are not properties that are considerably

:51:40.:51:44.

more valuable. Indeed, but I'd spoken to many people and explained

:51:44.:51:49.

the concept of the tax, and they are very supportive. Why don't you

:51:49.:51:55.

explain it to us. How would it work? There would be an annual levy of 1%

:51:55.:52:00.

on properties of £2 million or more. That is not for the £2 million, any

:52:00.:52:06.

part of the valuation above 2 million would be taxed at 1%. So if

:52:06.:52:11.

your property was worth £3 million, you would pay £10,000 every year for

:52:11.:52:17.

the privilege of owning that house? That's right, and what we're saying

:52:17.:52:23.

is, in these difficult times, we believe the wealthiest in society

:52:23.:52:26.

should contribute a little bit more. A big house is only one measure of

:52:26.:52:31.

the wealthiest. You could have two houses, one in Canterbury worth 1.7

:52:31.:52:35.

five million and another house in the West Country were the same

:52:35.:52:38.

amount in you would not pay anything. That's right, if you own

:52:38.:52:45.

two houses, both valued at 2 million or 1.9 million each, you would not

:52:45.:52:50.

pay the mansion tax. You would still pay council tax and you would still

:52:50.:52:54.

pay capital gains tax on the house that is not your main residence, so

:52:54.:52:58.

overall you would still be paying a large amount of tax. You are

:52:58.:53:02.

branding yourself as the high tax party, are you not handing boats on

:53:02.:53:09.

a platter to the Conservatives? We are branding ourselves as a party

:53:09.:53:13.

that wants to see a stronger economy and a fairer society. On the point

:53:13.:53:23.

of tax, our policy of raising the income tax threshold has been a key

:53:23.:53:27.

policy and we've helped to bring out in. By doing that, we've lifted 3

:53:27.:53:33.

million people out of low income tax and we've given a tax cut to many

:53:33.:53:42.

more. We are privileged to have a representative of the three major

:53:42.:53:46.

political parties here. Tristan, the Labour, would you like to see and

:53:46.:53:50.

syntax in the Labour Party manifesto? —— to see a mansion tax.

:53:50.:54:01.

We would like to see a similar 1,, £2 million. We would reintroduce a

:54:01.:54:10.

10p tax which would raise significant sons. We put it to

:54:10.:54:17.

parliament in March and the Lib Dems actually did not vote to support us.

:54:17.:54:21.

They talk a good game, but when it comes to voting in Parliament, they

:54:21.:54:30.

actually voted against. Henry, it is a little uncomfortable, isn't it?

:54:30.:54:34.

The Lib Dems, your coalition partners, and you are never going to

:54:34.:54:37.

agree, because your party looks after rich people. That's not true,

:54:37.:54:43.

we are looking to reduce taxation across for, because we think when

:54:43.:54:49.

people are allowed to keep more of what they earn, they will spend it

:54:49.:54:51.

more efficiently rather than an inefficient government, however

:54:51.:54:57.

well—meaning that will be. The trouble with the mansion tax idea is

:54:57.:55:01.

it sounds catchy, but in actual fact, to raise £2 billion, it would

:55:01.:55:08.

have to be levied against 150,000 homes. In many of those, you may

:55:08.:55:12.

have people who are asset rich but income poor. He is not going to come

:55:12.:55:20.

onto your side. So it is you and Labour on this one, isn't it? A new

:55:20.:55:27.

coalition. We do agree. That's all we got time at —— four. Just a quick

:55:27.:55:37.

round—up of the political events of this week.

:55:37.:55:48.

After 65 days of protests, 125 arrests and £4 million of policing

:55:48.:55:52.

costs, drilling has ceased and the anti—fracking protesters have gone

:55:52.:55:57.

home. Medway has some of the highest debt rates in the country, so will

:55:57.:56:00.

be welcome rules that the government is planning tougher regulations of

:56:00.:56:04.

payday lenders? I think it is important we don't

:56:04.:56:09.

force people into the illegal lending sphere.

:56:09.:56:12.

Boris Johnson spoke positively of the potential hub airport in the

:56:12.:56:17.

Thames Estoril. Locals aren't so positive about it. The Rochester

:56:17.:56:22.

MP's own survey of the Medway towns said 92% of people were against the

:56:22.:56:26.

idea. And it is the People's peer, so let

:56:26.:56:31.

them have a stake in it. Renovation on Hastings Pier begin next month,

:56:31.:56:36.

and residents are being given the opportunity to become shareholders

:56:36.:56:41.

in the project. I should certainly think about it. Maybe it isn't so

:56:41.:56:49.

exciting that some after all. Landlocked constituencies, both of

:56:49.:56:53.

you, but would you buy shares in a peer? It seems like an innovative

:56:53.:56:55.

idea. That's it from us this week. more affordable homes needed, but we

:56:55.:57:07.

have no time. Andrew, back to you. Our next guest is no stranger to

:57:07.:57:19.

controversy, a former UKIP MEP he recently lost his party's whip after

:57:19.:57:41.

a series of outbursts including receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land'

:57:41.:57:45.

and joking that a group of UKIP women who didn't clean behind their

:57:45.:57:48.

fridges were 'sluts'. Now he sits in independent but remains a UKIP party

:57:48.:57:53.

member. Here's a flavour of recent events in the political life of

:57:53.:58:02.

Godfrey Bloom. How you can possibly be giving £1 million a month...

:58:03.:58:12.

Bongo Bongo Land. I got 6000 e-mails within 12 hours, only 47 were not

:58:12.:58:15.

agreeing with me so you are the within 12 hours, only 47 were not

:58:15.:58:20.

that is out of touch. Everybody knows me, a bit like the Marmite

:58:20.:58:22.

joke, they love me or they hate knows me, a bit like the Marmite

:58:22.:58:27.

but I have always told me like it is. I made a joke and said that

:58:27.:58:37.

women who did not clean behind the French were sluts and everybody

:58:38.:58:42.

laughed along, including the women. I have had hundreds of e-mails,

:58:42.:58:45.

saying, God Almighty, can't you I have had hundreds of e-mails,

:58:45.:58:50.

a joke any more? I am long in the correctness and I understand UKIP

:58:50.:58:56.

have moved on and they are doing well, and I wish them well. This,

:58:56.:59:10.

with no black faces on it. You are picking people out for the colour of

:59:10.:59:16.

with no black faces on it. You are their skin? You disgust me! Perhaps

:59:16.:59:19.

the way they are doing things now is disgrace me. We are joined now with

:59:19.:59:27.

a suitable distance between us by the independent MEP for Yorkshire

:59:27.:59:34.

and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You said this weekend that you have

:59:34.:59:39.

and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You be a complete sociopath to be in

:59:39.:59:47.

politics, are you a sociopath? No, I am just an ordinary bloke from the

:59:47.:59:51.

rugby club likes to tell it as it is. I did not come into politics to

:59:51.:59:55.

rugby club likes to tell it as it save my country from the clutches of

:59:55.:00:00.

the awful, evil... That is why I am in politics, and that is why I

:00:00.:00:06.

member, and I will still be voting ability... Do you accept that your

:00:06.:00:14.

conference? We were both born in ability... Do you accept that your

:00:14.:00:21.

same year, we are too old to worry about regrets. Let's look forward

:00:21.:00:27.

and see... Never mind the year I was born, what is the answer to my

:00:27.:00:35.

country and intent to do the best I independent for my country, and

:00:35.:00:42.

country and intent to do the best I re-elected. They are the only game

:00:42.:00:44.

in town, the only party that will get as out. Shouldn't you have been

:00:44.:00:54.

liability? You hijacked the party conference. That is a matter of

:00:54.:00:58.

perception. We have heard nothing in the last two years but it is a

:00:58.:01:02.

one-man band, a Nigel Farage party, and I can make a joke at a fringe

:01:02.:01:05.

meeting and collapse the whole thing. This doesn't say anything

:01:05.:01:13.

Andrew. It tells you about your journalism - it is not about UKIP or

:01:13.:01:22.

me, it was the journalists' reaction to a small joke at a meeting. And

:01:22.:01:29.

myself, unless I had a commended. Personality, the most unbelievable

:01:29.:01:43.

force of personality to collapse a party conference. Nigel Farage has

:01:43.:01:55.

been a friend of mine for 20 years, and may I remind you that in June

:01:55.:02:00.

and July UK was slipping in the polls, and when I made my statement

:02:00.:02:05.

about overseas aid, we went back to liability, I never was, I am a vote

:02:05.:02:13.

getter. As you know, there is a correlation, but let me show you

:02:13.:02:17.

what Nigel Farage had to say about you on the BBC. Let's blunder clip

:02:18.:02:23.

of that. We are not here to win friends amongst the liberal elite,

:02:23.:02:29.

and Godfrey's problem was that he manifesto. Don't you need to reflect

:02:29.:02:38.

that you are too outrageous, too politically incorrect even for UKIP?

:02:38.:02:41.

Well, you see, to a certain extent I politically incorrect even for UKIP?

:02:41.:02:46.

have been gagged on other subjects. I am a libertarian, I wanted to

:02:46.:02:50.

have been gagged on other subjects. about flat tax. I thought David

:02:50.:02:53.

Aronowitz wrote a very good piece in the times on drugs, and I have been

:02:53.:02:57.

gagged to speak about any of these things because they are not part of

:02:57.:03:01.

it, so I tend to speak about other things. Maybe they have outgrown

:03:01.:03:10.

machine, and they have to get rid of the Victor Meldrew wing. You might

:03:10.:03:13.

have a point, but I am speaking the Victor Meldrew wing. You might

:03:13.:03:17.

you from Hull, and if you look at Barnsley, and very recently in

:03:17.:03:23.

Scarborough and Whitby in the buy legends, 25%, so how you see things

:03:23.:03:28.

in the bubble, it is not like how we see it appear in Yorkshire. You

:03:28.:03:31.

in the bubble, it is not like how we like the one who was sitting in

:03:31.:03:34.

in the bubble, it is not like how we bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of

:03:34.:03:35.

course it isn't, we are getting bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of

:03:35.:03:40.

of the vote in by-elections, of course it is not. Boy, wouldn't

:03:40.:03:45.

of the vote in by-elections, of main parties and the establishment

:03:45.:03:48.

love to see that! But I am sorry, it is not happening. Will you stand as

:03:48.:03:52.

an independence against UKIP in is not happening. Will you stand as

:03:52.:03:54.

European elections? Almost certainly elections were next week, I could

:03:54.:04:07.

do not think I will go that route. Will you stand as a UKIP candidate

:04:07.:04:09.

again? We do not know, probably Will you stand as a UKIP candidate

:04:09.:04:13.

but I shall certainly be trying Will you stand as a UKIP candidate

:04:13.:04:18.

help UKIP as best I can. You both share a flat, I understand, in

:04:18.:04:20.

Brussels, neither of you clean behind the fridge. Other than the

:04:20.:04:26.

fact that the place is probably quite murky, you have got a chance

:04:26.:04:29.

to talk to each other and get back into his good graces, haven't you? I

:04:29.:04:34.

am sure we will be having a beer before the month is out. So Godfrey

:04:34.:04:43.

take it? For those of you who were shrugged! Thank you very much for

:04:43.:04:49.

joining. A great pleasure. I will have to move my own share, you do

:04:49.:04:55.

not have the sea Jeremy Paxman doing that! Nobody votes for UKIP because

:04:55.:05:00.

they think they are a smooth, slick, absence of PR polish is the reason

:05:00.:05:06.

for their popularity, so these are skirmishes are not a problem, and

:05:06.:05:10.

more than that, Godfrey Bloom does make Nigel Farage look better. Even

:05:10.:05:14.

in that clip from Andrew Marr, he juxtaposition with someone like

:05:14.:05:20.

Godfrey Bloom than he has done before. I mean, he did hijacked

:05:20.:05:24.

Godfrey Bloom than he has done conference, it was a disaster, they

:05:24.:05:25.

got tonnes of publicity but not conference, it was a disaster, they

:05:25.:05:28.

kind they wanted. But you have to journalists. I thought he was sexist

:05:28.:05:36.

long before anyone else, he used to have an incredible page on his

:05:36.:05:41.

website entitled Godfrey Bloom: Misogynist, and the proof that he

:05:41.:05:47.

photographed with a girls' rugby characters in politics. He does

:05:47.:05:53.

photographed with a girls' rugby Nigel Farage look better, but is sin

:05:53.:05:55.

was to say things you said before but to ruin the party conference. It

:05:55.:06:01.

sounds like he is coming back. A beer in Brussels and he will be

:06:01.:06:05.

sounds like he is coming back. A on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a

:06:05.:06:06.

beer in that built the Chechen, on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a

:06:06.:06:11.

sounds like it may be what the deal is that he comes back into UKIP

:06:11.:06:15.

sounds like it may be what the deal does not stand as an MEP at the

:06:15.:06:18.

European Parliamentary elections. -- in that built the kitchen. It is

:06:18.:06:22.

right to say the electorate are sophisticated and they know what

:06:22.:06:24.

this party is for, what characters Godfrey Bloom said for people to

:06:24.:06:32.

electorate know what they go using UKIP four. They are using it as

:06:32.:06:37.

electorate know what they go using vehicle to beat over the head the

:06:37.:06:37.

three established parties. They vehicle to beat over the head the

:06:37.:06:40.

probably do it in the European elections and give them first place.

:06:40.:06:44.

The big question is what happens in problem that Nigel Farage was making

:06:44.:06:55.

The big question is what happens in an Andrew Marr this morning is that

:06:55.:06:56.

he wants to copy the tactics of an Andrew Marr this morning is that

:06:56.:06:58.

he wants to copy the tactics of Paddy Ashdown, get elected and

:06:58.:06:59.

councils, build up a Parliamentary base, and to do that you do need

:06:59.:07:00.

Commons next week, and there is base, and to do that you do need

:07:01.:07:04.

ministerial reshuffle on the cards, that is the rumour in Westminster.

:07:04.:07:06.

David Cameron has spoken of the that is the rumour in Westminster.

:07:06.:07:10.

David Cameron has spoken of the extraordinary talent pool of women

:07:10.:07:12.

among his ministers, so could he bring more of them into the cabinet?

:07:12.:07:14.

He was talking about it earlier bring more of them into the cabinet?

:07:14.:07:19.

week. I think we are getting there in Britain, but we have a long way

:07:19.:07:24.

businesses in Britain, there are not boardroom. If you look at politics

:07:24.:07:29.

in Britain, there aren't nearly enough women around the Cabinet

:07:29.:07:33.

table. So I think, in every walk of life, whether it is the judiciary,

:07:33.:07:38.

whether it is politics, business, there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:38.:07:40.

the last election, we only had there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:40.:07:44.

women Members of Parliament. We there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:44.:07:47.

have around 50, so we have made there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:47.:07:49.

big change, but it is still 50 out of 300, not nearly enough. So we

:07:50.:07:55.

need to do more. My wife likes to say, if you don't have women in

:07:55.:07:59.

need to do more. My wife likes to places, you're not just missing

:07:59.:08:03.

need to do more. My wife likes to missing out on a lot more than

:08:03.:08:05.

need to do more. My wife likes to of the talent, and I think she

:08:05.:08:09.

need to do more. My wife likes to probably has a point. The prime

:08:09.:08:13.

need to do more. My wife likes to there going to be a reshuffle? I

:08:13.:08:14.

think you are right to say there there going to be a reshuffle? I

:08:14.:08:18.

will be a lot more women, they need to change the ratio of women to

:08:18.:08:24.

will be a lot more women, they need called Dave who went to maudlin

:08:24.:08:32.

college. So obviously they are not fishing in the biggest talent pool,

:08:32.:08:42.

but there are numbers. Esther McVey has been selling a very difficult

:08:42.:08:45.

brief in work and pensions, you could see people being given bigger

:08:46.:08:47.

roles. Helen is pretty sure. We could see people being given bigger

:08:48.:08:54.

told it is not a Cabinet level reshuffle me it is under Secretary

:08:54.:08:57.

level, so maybe you could put Esther McVey into the Cabinet. Margot

:08:57.:09:04.

James, who you had here not that long ago, she is very impressive.

:09:04.:09:07.

What is impressive is that some long ago, she is very impressive.

:09:07.:09:11.

like Andrea Leadsom, who is really impressive, worked in the City,

:09:11.:09:15.

like Andrea Leadsom, who is really smart, really big on important

:09:15.:09:19.

intervention, she should still be in there, but she fell out with George

:09:19.:09:23.

Osborne when she dared to criticise him a few years ago over Ed Balls

:09:23.:09:32.

you are doing it on talent, Andrea expectation, if he does not do this

:09:32.:09:40.

now, a tonne of bricks will fall on him. He has got no excuse not to

:09:41.:09:48.

promote women, because the 2010 intake was disproportionately female

:09:48.:09:55.

in terms of talent. The question of the Tories and the struggle with

:09:55.:09:59.

women voters is a very deep and historic one. You have to remember

:09:59.:10:03.

that for most of the post-war period they had an advantage electorally

:10:03.:10:07.

amongst women voters. Many times Conservative government without

:10:07.:10:11.

amongst women voters. Many times women of this country. This began to

:10:11.:10:14.

change in the mid-1990s, and the question is, why has that happened?

:10:14.:10:20.

personalities at the top are now much more hostile to women, or less,

:10:20.:10:25.

personalities at the top are now Brent doubled to female voters?

:10:25.:10:27.

personalities at the top are now is such a deep historical trend

:10:27.:10:28.

personalities at the top are now I do not think one reshuffle will

:10:28.:10:35.

change it. -- or less competent civil. The English party conference

:10:35.:10:40.

season is over, do you share the consensus view that Ed Miliband

:10:40.:10:46.

season is over, do you share the out best of the three party leaders?

:10:46.:10:51.

I think I probably do, but his overall approval ratings are still

:10:51.:10:56.

minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus ten. And the more the recovery seems

:10:56.:10:59.

minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus to take place, and some of the

:11:00.:11:02.

latest figures are quite amazing, they certainly surprised me, you

:11:02.:11:07.

wonder whether Labour's tactic is right to put all their eggs into the

:11:07.:11:14.

living standards basket. I was looking at car sales, which are

:11:14.:11:18.

booming. If people start to feel better, and they don't yet, but

:11:18.:11:21.

booming. If people start to feel they were, it is tougher to go on

:11:21.:11:29.

about living standards. George Osborne's... You have Ed Miliband

:11:29.:11:32.

making a great thing about living standards, but then they say under

:11:32.:11:36.

their breath, this is global forces, outstripping wage increases. And

:11:36.:11:43.

you're absolutely right, as the economy improves, presumably that

:11:43.:11:46.

will be dealt with, but Miliband's argument will be that there are

:11:46.:11:50.

people suffering, and even if the economy recovers, they will still

:11:50.:11:55.

forces, it is difficult to blame the government for that. Body being

:11:55.:12:00.

noticed now, there is nothing worse for the leader of the opposition

:12:00.:12:06.

than to be not noticed. -- but he is being noticed now. It seems that he

:12:06.:12:10.

in many ways has set the political weather. Look at the number of

:12:10.:12:12.

references to the Labour leader weather. Look at the number of

:12:12.:12:18.

Mr Cameron's speech. And in Mr Obama's speech on a similar topic,

:12:18.:12:25.

living standards. Was the mentioning Ed Miliband?! Oh, he was using the

:12:25.:12:31.

same language, he has not gone that far. If I were Ed Miliband, I would

:12:31.:12:37.

be more worried now, because Labour through the kitchen sink at their

:12:37.:12:40.

conference. They came out with the biggest policy announcements they

:12:40.:12:44.

could, compulsory apprenticeships, the energy freeze on prices, and it

:12:44.:12:48.

generated a poll boost which has fizzled away within ten days. I

:12:49.:12:53.

generated a poll boost which has not know where they go from here.

:12:54.:12:56.

What is significant with Ed Miliband conference beaches, he has set the

:12:56.:13:03.

one nation Britain, and the problem with those speeches is people say,

:13:03.:13:07.

they are fine, they are academic, but what does it mean? What you

:13:07.:13:14.

they are fine, they are academic, now is an intellectual framework

:13:14.:13:16.

that translates into policies. The polls to watch are not the ones

:13:16.:13:19.

after the conferences, but at the end of the month when it has also

:13:19.:13:23.

pulled down. They will tell us where we are going. We will have to go

:13:23.:13:27.

ourselves now. Thank you to our guests. The Daily Politics will

:13:27.:13:31.

ourselves now. Thank you to our back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two,

:13:31.:13:33.

and I will be back on BBC One this time, same time, next week. If it is

:13:33.:13:36.

Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.

:13:37.:13:39.

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