Browse content similar to 10/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
the war path over pay day loans, your energy bill and what he calls | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
the bedroom tax. His spinners say he's resurgent though the polls | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
don't show it. We'll be talking to his right hand woman, Labour's | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
won an award this week for being a political insurgent. We'll be | :00:59. | :01:06. | |
talking to the UKIP leader. And Harriet hates, hates, hates page | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
three. She wants rid of it. But what do you think? We sent Adam out with | :01:10. | :01:20. | |
some balls. Stay. It is good fun for the guys. | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
And in the South East. Six months after UKIP's breakthrough | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
in the local elections in Kent and West Sussex, will it really be a | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
springboard for future success in national politics? | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
row over the super sewer rumbles on. And with me, fresh from their | :01:33. | :01:46. | |
success at yesterday's Star Wars auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. First, the talks with Iran in | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
Geneva. They ended last night without agreement despite hopes of a | :02:02. | :02:11. | |
breakthrough. America and its allies didn't think Iran was prepared to go | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
far enough to freeze its nuclear programme. But some progress has | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
been made and there's to be another meeting in ten days' time, though at | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
a lower level. The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had this | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
to say a little earlier. On the question of, or will it happen in | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
the next few weeks? There is a good chance of that. We will be trying | :02:29. | :02:36. | |
again on 20th, 21st of November and negotiators will be trying again. We | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
will keep an enormous amount of energy and persistence behind | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
solving this. Will that be a deal which will please everyone? No, it | :02:49. | :02:55. | |
will not. Compromises will need to be made. I had discussions with | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
Israeli ministers yesterday and put the case for the kind of deal we are | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
looking the case for the kind of deal we are | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
interests of the whole world, including | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
interests of the whole world, the world, to reach a diplomatic | :03:15. | :03:15. | |
agreement we can be confident in in this issue. This otherwise will | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
threaten the world with nuclear proliferation and conflict in the | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
future. The interesting thing about this is that it seems | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
future. The interesting thing about prepared to go far enough over the | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor it is building. The people who took | :03:37. | :03:49. | |
the toughest line - the French. France has always had a pretty tough | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
line on Iran. They see it as a disruptive influence in Lebanon I | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
am reasonably optimistic a deal will be done later this month when the | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
talks reconvene. Western economic sanctions have had such an impact on | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
Iran domestic league. They have pushed inflation up to 40%. | :04:11. | :04:19. | |
Dashes-macro domestically. The new president had a campaign pledge | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
saying, I will deal with sanctions. I actually think, by the end of this | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
year, we will see progress in these talks. Should we be optimistic? The | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
next round of talks will be at official level. The place to watch | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
will be Israel. The language which has been coming out of there is | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
still incredibly angry, incredibly defensive. They do not want a deal | :04:51. | :05:00. | |
at all. Presumably John Kerry has to go away and tried to get Israel to | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
be quiet about it, even if they cannot be happy about it. They | :05:06. | :05:16. | |
cannot agree to a deal which allows the Iraq reactor with plutonium | :05:17. | :05:24. | |
heavy water. You do not need that with a peaceful nuclear power | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
programme will stop that is why the Israelis are so nervous. If there is | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
an international deal, Israel could still bomb that but it would be | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
impossible. The French tactics are interesting. It says the French | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
blocked it in part because they are trying to carry favour with Israel | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
but also the Gulf Arab states, who are really nervous about and | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
Iranians nuclear capability. Who is that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
story saying that Pakistan is prepared to provide them with | :06:06. | :06:16. | |
nuclear weapons. You are right about Saudi Arabia. They are much more | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
against this deal than Israel. Who is Herman van Rompuy's favourite | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
MEP? It is probably not Nigel Farage. He plummeted to the bottom | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
of the EU president's Christmas card list after comparing him to a bank | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
clerk with the charisma of a damp rag. And he's been at it again this | :06:34. | :06:42. | |
week. Have a look. Today is November the 5th, a big celebration festival | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
day in England. That was an attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
with dynamite and destroy the Constitution. You have taken the | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
Dahl, technocratic approach to all of these things. What you and your | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
colleagues save time and again you talk about initiatives and what you | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
are going to do about unemployment. The reality is nothing in this union | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
is getting better. The accounts have not been signed off for 18 years. I | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
am now told it is 19 and you are doing your best to tone down any | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
criticism. Whatever growth figures you may have, they are anaemic. | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
Youth unemployment in the Mediterranean is over 50% in several | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
states. You will notice there is a rise in opposition dashed real | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
opposition. Much of it ugly opposition, not stuff that I would | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
want to link hands with. And Nigel Farage joins me now. Let me put to | :07:42. | :07:50. | |
you what the editor of the Sun had to say. He says, UKIP will peak at | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
the European election and then it will begin to get marginalised as we | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
get closer to 2015 because there is now that clear blue water between | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
Labour and the Tories. What do you say to that? There may be layered | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
blue water on energy pricing but on Eastern Europe, there is no | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
difference at all. When Ed Miliband offers the referendum to match | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
Cameron, even that argument on Europe will be gone. The one thing | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
that will keep UKIP strong, heading towards 2015, is if people think in | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
some constituencies we can win. I cannot sit here right now and say | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
that will be the case. If we get over the hurdle of the European | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
elections clearly, I think there will be grounds to say that UKIP can | :08:42. | :08:49. | |
win seats in Westminster. You are going to run? Without a shadow of a | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
doubt. I do not know which constituency. The welcome I got in | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
Edinburgh was not that friendly Edinburgh is not everything in | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
Scotland. I think we have a realistic chance of winning those | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
elections. If we do that, we will have the momentum behind us. You | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
might be the biggest party after the May elections. The National front is | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
likely to do very well in France as well. They have won the crucial | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
by-election in the South of France. Have you talked about joining full | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
season in Parliament? The leader has tried to take the movement into a | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
different direction than her father. The man she beat, to become leader, | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
actually attended the BNP conference. The problem she has with | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
her party and we have with her party is that anti-Semitism is too deep | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
and we will not be doing a deal with the French national government. You | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
can guarantee you will not be joining such groups. I can guarantee | :10:02. | :10:09. | |
that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's accept that the pro-Europeans | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
exaggerate the loss of jobs that would follow the departure of | :10:13. | :10:20. | |
Britain from the UK. Is there no risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk | :10:21. | :10:28. | |
whatsoever. There is no risk at all. There have been some weak and lazy | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
arguments put around about this We will go on doing business - go on | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
doing trade with Europe. We will have increased opportunities to do | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
trade deals with the rest of the world and they will create jobs The | :10:47. | :10:56. | |
head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi and CBI many other voices in British | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
business, when they all expressed concern about the potential loss of | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
jobs and incoming investment, we should just ignore them. With | :11:07. | :11:15. | |
Nissan, the BBC News is making this a huge story. The boss did not say | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
what was reported. He said there was a potential danger to his future | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
investment. They have already made the investments. They have built the | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
plant in Sunderland, which they say is operating well. We should be | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
careful of what bosses of big businesses say. This man said they | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
may have two leaves Sunderland if we did not join the euro. I do not take | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
that seriously. As for the CBI, they wanted us to join the euro and now | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
they do not. Even within the CBI, there is a significant minority | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
saying, we do not agree with what the CBI director-general is saying. | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
The former boss of the organisation is saying we need a referendum and | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
we need a referendum soon. It depends on the renegotiation. There | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
is not the uniformity. What we are beginning to see in the world, is, | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
manufacturing and small businesses are a lot more voices saying, the | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
costs of membership outweigh any potential benefit. If you look at | :12:24. | :12:31. | |
the polls, if Mr Cameron does repatriate some powers and he joins | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
with Labour, the Lib Dems, the Nationalists in Scotland and Wales, | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
most of business, all of the unions to say we should stay in, you are | :12:44. | :12:52. | |
going to lose, aren't you? In 1 75, the circumstances were exactly the | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
same. Mr Wilson promised a renegotiation and he got very | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
little. The establishment gathered around him and they voted for us to | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
stay in. I do not think that will happen now. The scales have fallen. | :13:05. | :13:12. | |
We do not want to be governed by Herman Van Rompuy and these people. | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
These people are Eurosceptic but they do not seem to feel strongly | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
enough about it that they are going to defy all the major parties they | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
vote for, companies that employ them, unions they are members of. I | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
am absolutely confident there will be a lot voices in business saying, | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
we need to take this opportunity to break free, give ourselves a chance | :13:36. | :13:45. | |
of a low regulation lowball trader. -- global trade. In 1970 53 small | :13:46. | :14:05. | |
publications said to vote yes. I am not contemplating losing. The most | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
important thing is to get the referendum. If UKIP is not strong, | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
there will not be a referendum. Earlier in the year, your party | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
issued a leaflet about the remaining sample parents being able to come to | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
this country. The EU will allow 29 million Bulgarians and remaining is | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
to come to the UK. That is technically correct but we both know | :14:30. | :14:42. | |
that is not the case. It is an open door to these people. Why take the | :14:43. | :14:54. | |
risk? By make out there are 29 million people? I stand by that | :14:55. | :15:04. | |
verdict. It is an open door. 29 million are not going to come. They | :15:05. | :15:13. | |
can if they want. Also 29 million people from France can come. After | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
these countries have joined, we will do another leaflet saying that Mr | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
Cameron wants to open the door to 70 million people from Turkey. That is | :15:24. | :15:33. | |
scaremongering. I would not say that. We have a million young | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
British workers between 16 and 4 without work. A lot of them want | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
work and we do not need another massive oversupply in the unskilled | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
labour market. Why did you have such a bad time on question Time this | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
week? The folk that did not buy your anti-immigration stick. Do you think | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
that group of people in the room was representative of the voters of | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
Boston? What would make you think it was unrepresentative? When the | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
county council elections took place this year in Boston, of the seven | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
seats, UKIP won five and almost won the other two. I don't think that | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
audience reflected that, but that doesn't matter. How an audience is | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
put together, how a panel is put together, on one programme, it | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
doesn't mean much at all. It shows that your anti-immigrant measure | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
doesn't fly as easily as you hoped it would? The opinion polls which | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
will be launched on Monday that we are conducting and nearing | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
completion, they show two things. Firstly, an astonishing number of | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
people who think it's irresponsible and wrong to open the doer to | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and crucially, a number of people whose | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
vote in the European elections and subsequent general elections may be | :16:52. | :16:53. | |
determined by the immigration issues. This does matter. It would | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
be the perfect run group the European elections in May for you if | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
a lot of Bulgarians and remainians flooded in. You would like that to | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
happen? I think it will happen. Whether I like it or not, it will | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
happen. You think it will be good for you, it will stir things up If | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
you say to people in poor countries, you can come here, get a job, have a | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
safety net of a benefits system claim child allowance for your kids | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
in Bucharest, people will come You are ready with the arguments | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
already? You will be disappointed if only ten turn up? Whether lots come | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
or not we should. Taking the risk and yes, we are going to make it a | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
major issue in the European election. Let's leave it there. | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
Thank you very much, Nigel Farage. The summer of 2013 was not good for | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
Ed Miliband, with questions over his leadership, low ratings and | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
complaints about no policies. He bounced back with a vengeance at the | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
Labour Conference in September, delivering a speech which this week | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
won the spectator political speech of the year aword. In that speech he | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
focussed on the cost-of-living and promised a temporary freeze on | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
energy prices. Even said this. The next election isn't just going to be | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
about policy. It's going to be about how we lead and the character we | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
show. I've got a message for the Tories today. If they want to have a | :18:14. | :18:21. | |
debate, about leadership and character, be my guest And if you | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
want to know the difference between me and David Cameron, here is an | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
easy way to remember it. When it was Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
side of Murdoch. When it was the tobacco lobby versus the cancer | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
charities, he took the side of the tobacco lobby. When the millionaires | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
wanted a tax cut as people pay the bedroom tax, he took the side of the | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
millionaires. A come to think of it, here is an easier way to remember | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
it. David Cameron was a Prime Minister who introduced the bedroom | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who repeals the bedroom tax There we go, | :18:59. | :19:07. | |
that will go down with the party faithful on Tuesday. There will be a | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman, | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
joints me now. Let's begin with the bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy. | :19:21. | :19:27. | |
Nearly 11% of people who've come off Housing Benefits all together after | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
their spare room subsidy was stopped, isn't that proof that | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
reform was necessary? No. I think that the whole way that the bet room | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
tax has been attempted to be justified is completely wrong. What | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
it's said is that it will actually help take people off the waiting | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
lists by putting them into homes that have been vacated by people | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
who've downsized by being incentivised by the bedroom tax so | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
basically if you are a council tenant or Housing Association tenant | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
in a property with spare bedrooms, then because the penalty is imposed, | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
you will move to a smaller property. That is the justification for it. | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
But actually, something like 96 of the people who're going to be hit by | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
the bedroom tax, there isn't a smaller property for them to move | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
into. I understand that. Therefore they are, like the people in my | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
constituency, if they have got one spare bedroom, they are hit by 700 | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
a year extra to pay and that is completely unfair As a consequence | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
of people losing the subsidy for their spare room, they have decided | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
to go out and get work and not depend on Housing Benefit at all? | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
11% of them. What's wrong with that? Well, they are going to review the | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
way 2 the bedroom tax is working. What is wrong with that? But that's | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
not working. That's the result of Freedom of Information, 141 councils | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
provided the figures, 25,000 who've come off benefits, of the 233,0 0 | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
affected, it's about 11%. These people were clearly able to get a | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
job was having the Housing Benefit in the first place? But of course | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
the people who're on the benefits who're not in work are always | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
looking for work and many of them will find work which is a good | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
thing, but for those who don't find work, or who find work where it s | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
low-paid and need help with their rent, it's wrong to penalise them on | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
the basis of the fact that their family might have grown up and moved | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
away and so you have either got to move out of your home, away from | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
your family and your neighbourhood, or you've got to stay where you are | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
and, despite the fact that you are low-paid or unemployed, you have got | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
to find an extra ?700 a year because of your rent. So it's very unfair | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
The Government that was commissioning independent research | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
on the impact of this work change and welfare policy, particularly on | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
the impact on the most vulnerable, some of which you have been talking | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
about there, shouldn't they have waited until you have got the | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
independent research, that independent investigation before | :21:59. | :22:00. | |
determining your policy? No. In fact, the Government should have | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
waited until they'd have done their independent research before they | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
bought into effect something and imposed it on people in a way which | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
is really unfair. They could have known. Why didn't you wait? What | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
they could have done is, they could have asked councils, are people | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
going to be able to Manifest into smaller homes if we impose the | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
bedroom tax and the answer from councils and Housing Associations | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
would have been no, they can't move into smaller homes because which | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
haven't got them there. They should have done the evaluation before they | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
introduced the policy. We are absolutely clear and you can see the | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
evidence, people are falling into rent arrears. Many people, it's a | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
terrifying thing to find that you can't pay your rent, and some of the | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
people go to payday loan companies to get loans to pay their rent. It | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
is very, very unfair. The justification for it, which is | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
people will move, is completely bogus. There aren't places for them | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
to go. On the wider issue of welfare reform, a call for the TUC showed | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
that voters support the Government's welfare reforms, including a | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
majority of Labour voters. Why are you so out of touch on welfare | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
issues, even with your own supporters? Nobody wants to see | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
people who could be in a job actually living at the taxpayers' | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
expense. That's why we have said that we'll introduce a compulsory | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
jobs guarantee, so that if you are a young person who's been unemployed | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
for a year, you will have to take a job absolutely have to take a job, | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
and if you have been unemployed as somebody over 25, there'll be a | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
compulsory thing after two years of unemployment. So if you have been on | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
welfare two years? So the main issue about the welfare bill actually is | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
people who're in retirement who need support. We have said for the | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
richest pensioners, they shouldn't have to pay their winter fuel | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
allowance. My point wasn't abouts the sub stance, it's about how you | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
don't reflect public opinion -- substance. The Parliamentary aid | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
said the political backlog of benefits and social security is "not | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
yet one that we have won. Labour must accept that they are not | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
convincing on these matters,". Well, redo have to convince people and | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
explain the policies we have got and the view we take. So, for example, | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
for pensioners, who're well off we are saying they don't need the | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me saying to you and us saying to | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
people in this country, we do think that there should be that | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
tightening. For young people, who've been unemployed, they should be | :24:36. | :24:37. | |
offered jobs but they've got to take them. So yes, we have to make our | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
case. OK. The energy freeze which we showed there, on the speech, as | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
popular. The living wage proseles have been going down well as well. | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
Why is Labour's lead oaf the Conservatives being cut to 6% in the | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
latest polls? Ed Miliband's own personal approval rating's gotten | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
worse. Why is that? I'm not going to disdues ins and outs of weekly | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
opinion polls with you or anybody else because I'm not a political | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
commentator, but let me say to you the facts of what's happened since | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
Ed Miliband's been leader of the Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New | :25:13. | :25:20. | |
Labour councillors, all of those... But you're... All those who've won | :25:21. | :25:22. | |
their seats against the Conservatives or the Liberal | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
Democrats and no, Andrew you don't always get that in opposition. In | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
1997 after Tony Blair was elected, the Tories carried on losing council | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
seats. Exceptional circumstances and these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
the polls. You were six. The economy grew at an annual rate of 3% in the | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
third quarter just gone. Everybody, private and public forecasters now | :25:48. | :25:50. | |
saying that Britain in this coming year will grow faster than France, | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow faster. Your poll ratings are | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
average when the economy was flatlining, what happens to them | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
when the economy starts to grow Well, I've just said to you, I'm not | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
a political commentator or a pundit on opinion polls. We are putting | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
policies forward and we are holding the Government to account for what | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
they are doing and we think that what they did opt economy pulled the | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
plugs from the economy, delayed the recovery, made it stagnate and we | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
have had three years lost growth. I understand that, but it's now | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
starting to grow. Indeed. If you are no political commentator, let me ask | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
you this, you anticipated the growth, so you switched your line to | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
no growth to this is growth and living standards are rising. If the | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
economy does grow up towards 3% next year, I would suggest that living | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
standards probably will start to rise with that amount of growth | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
What do you do then? We have not switched our line because the | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
economy started to grow. All the way along, we said the economy will | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
recover, but it's been delayed and we have had stagnation for far too | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
long because of the economic policies. We have been absolutely | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
right to understand the concerns people have and recognise that they | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
are struggling with the cost-of-living. Sure. And we are | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
right to do that. What kind of living standards stuck to rise next | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
year? -- start to rise next year. I hope they will. For 40 months of | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
David Cameron's Prime Ministership, for 39 of those, wages have risen | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
slower than prices, so people are worse off. I understand that. You | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
will know that the broader measurement, real household | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
disposable income doesn't show that decline because it takes everything | :27:34. | :27:36. | |
into account. Going around the country, people feel it. They say | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
where's the recovery for me. Living standards now start to rise? If that | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
happens, what is your next line There is a set of arguments about | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
living standards, the National Health Service, about the problems | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
that there is in A, which caused -- are caused by the organisation. I | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
can put forward other lines. All right. Let me ask you one other | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
question If no newspapers have signed up to the Government-backed | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
Labour-backed Royal Charter on press regular lace by 2015 and it looks | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
like the way things are going none will have, if you are in power, will | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
a Labour Government legislate to make them? They don't have to sign | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
up to the Royal Charter, that's not the system. What the Royal Charter | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
does is create a recogniser and basically says it's for the | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
newspapers to set up their own regulator. They are doing that. My | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
question is... Let me finish. If they decide to have nothing to do | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
with the Royal Charter that was decided in Miliband's office in the | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
wee small hours, will you pass legislation to make them? The | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
newspapers are currently setting up what they call... I know that, | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
Harriet Harman. Just let me finish. OK. Because the newspapers are | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
setting up the independent Press Standards Organisation. Right. If it | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
is independent, as they say it is, then the recogniser will simply say, | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
we recognise that this is independent and the whole point is | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
that, in the past when there's been skaen deals a tend press have really | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
turned people's lives upside down and the press have said OK we'll | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
sort things out, leave it to us then they have sorted things out but | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
a few years later they have slipped back, all this recogniser will do is | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
check it once every three years and say yes, you have got an independent | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
system and it's remained independent and therefore that is the guarantee | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
things won't slip back. Very interesting. Thank you for that | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
That's really interesting that if they get their act right, you won't | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
force the alternative on them. We want the system as set forward by | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
Leveson which is not statute and direct regulation. I want to stick | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
with the press because I want to ask, is this a British institution | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
or an out-of-date image for a by gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
dividing the nation since it first appeared way back in 1970. That s 43 | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
years ago. Harriet Harman's called for it to be removed, so we sent | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
Adam out to ask whether the topless photographs should stay or go. We | :30:09. | :30:25. | |
have asked people if page three should stay or go. Page three. What | :30:26. | :30:39. | |
do you think? Nothing wrong with it at all. I think it is cheap and | :30:40. | :30:47. | |
exploits women. It is a family newspaper. Should it stay or go Go. | :30:48. | :30:59. | |
I will look like the bad guy. It should go. You have changed your | :31:00. | :31:13. | |
mind. It is free choice. Girls do not have to be photographed. Old men | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
get the paper just for that. Know when your age does that? Not really. | :31:20. | :31:33. | |
Dashes-macro know what your age Page three girls, should they stay | :31:34. | :31:42. | |
or go? I am not bothered. There are other ways of getting noticed. Page | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
three of the Sun newspaper every day, there is a woman with no top | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
on. We got rid of that about 40 years ago in Australia. I am not in | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
favour of censorship. It has been long enough. It can stay there. What | :32:01. | :32:10. | |
is wrong with it? We want to encourage children to read the | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
newspapers. I do not want my children to look at that. It is | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
degrading. Do you think we will see the day when they get rid of it | :32:19. | :32:27. | |
Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can turn this into some kind of a | :32:28. | :32:41. | |
shelter. It is tipping it down. I think the council should do | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
something about their car parks Mother nature, the human body. It | :32:47. | :32:55. | |
should stay. Is some people like it, that is fine. I have nothing against | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
it. You know what has surprised me, lots of women saying it should stay. | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
Maybe they are seeing it as empowering. As I have a baby | :33:07. | :33:13. | |
daughter in there, I am happy to see it go. Imagine my grandad opening up | :33:14. | :33:24. | |
his paper and they're being my bats! It should go. There is nothing wrong | :33:25. | :33:34. | |
with it. He wants it to go. What about people who think that page | :33:35. | :33:41. | |
three should be banned? Idiots. Do you know a girl called Lacey, aged | :33:42. | :33:51. | |
22, from Bedford? Good luck to her. I do not know her as a person that I | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
have heard she is nice. What about her decision to be on page three? | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
Nothing to lose. Do you think she has made Bedford proud? That is not | :34:05. | :34:13. | |
hard. What have we learned? More people want page three to stay down | :34:14. | :34:22. | |
for it to go. Most people do not really seem to care, do they? You | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
have heard a range of views. I am not arguing it should be banned. I | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
have not argued for it to be banned but I have disapproved of it since | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
the 1970s. You do not think it should be banned? I do not think | :34:40. | :34:51. | |
there should be dictating content but I do think, if you arrive from | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
outer space in this country in 21st-century Britain, and asked | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
yourself what was the role of women in society... To stand in their | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
knickers and nothing else, I think women have more to aspire to than to | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
be able to take their clothes off in public. The sun no longer has the | :35:10. | :35:19. | |
circulation, or the political importance, that it had in the 1980s | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
when page three was at its height. Aren't people just voting with their | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
feet anyway? The market is sorting this out. Half the number of people | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
buy it now than they did 20 years ago. Until the time the sun does not | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
have page three any more, I am entitled to my view that it is | :35:42. | :35:49. | |
outdated and wrong. I am happy to establish that you do not want to | :35:50. | :35:57. | |
ban it. What should happen? Should people boycott the paper? I have | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
never implied or said it should be banned. I have always been | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
forthright. Should people boycott the paper? I have not called for a | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
boycott. The women's movement, of which I am part, and this is not | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
about politicians censoring the press. I am part of the movement | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
which says women can do better than taking off their clothes and being | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
in their knickers in the newspapers. Why don't you do something about it? | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
I am doing something about it by saying it is outdated. I am not | :36:38. | :36:45. | |
doing anything more about it. Should people buy the paper as long as | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
there is a page three? Would you like to say to viewers, as long as | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
page three is in the sand, you should not buy it? Dashes-macro be | :36:56. | :37:04. | |
Son. I am saying, wake up to what the role of women in society should | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
be, which is more than page three. If they changed it in Australia, | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
which is where Rupert Murdoch came from, why can they not change it in | :37:13. | :37:20. | |
this country? You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
over 20 minutes... I'll be talking to man leading the campaign for an | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
English I'm Natalie Graham and this is the | :37:26. | :37:36. | |
Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up later, Ed Miliband | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
launches an attack on the Wonga Economy so what does that mean for | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
places like Medway which has the greatest concentration of payday | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
lenders in the whole country? Joining me in the studio today to | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
discuss that and other topics is Paul Carter, the Conservative leader | :37:53. | :37:54. | |
of Kent County Council and Janice Atkinson, a UKIP candidate for next | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
year's European elections in the South East. Welcome to you both. | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
Now, don't drink and... Well, we can all complete that important piece of | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
safety advice, but it's been reported that councillors in West | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
Sussex have been advised by the council not to drink and tweet just | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
in case they say something on social media they later regret. Is that | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
sound advice? Or a little too much management of our local politicians' | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
engagement with the public? Well, Janice, you tweet, how careful are | :38:24. | :38:34. | |
you? Have you ever type something in and said, I am not going to send | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
that? No, because I always have a rule. Never drink and tweet, sent an | :38:40. | :38:47. | |
e`mail or do Facebook. It is a great medium for getting across our | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
points, our points on politics, engaging with journalists. You have | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
got to be careful. Journalists and your political opponents will be | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
watching for everything for you to say to trip up. You have to be | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
careful, but the good thing is, you only have 140 characters. Never | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
drink and do it, ever! Do we have to advise our councillors, should they | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
not know that already? I think so, I do not use Twitter, I survive | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
without it, others do a lot of tweeting and nobody yet on the | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
Conservative benches at County Hall has got themselves into trouble. The | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
Freedom of information act does a good job on opening up our e`mail | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
accounts to the world to see on any issues. We are pretty open and | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
transparent and regulation encourages that and rightly so. | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
Now, it's six months since the local election results which changed the | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
political landscape across the south east. For the first time UKIP, which | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
had been a minor force until then, took a huge 37 council seats across | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
the region. It made them the official opposition in both Kent and | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
West Sussex. So, what has their record in local government | :40:03. | :40:03. | |
since those results? And can they really use it as they'd like to, as | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
a springboard towards even greater success at the general election? We | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
sent Bhavani Vadde to Thanet in Kent where UKIP got their best results in | :40:13. | :40:22. | |
the country. # Purple rain, purple rain. | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
It was a sea of blue that saw ways of purple crashing in on the South | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
East's political scene. You can's `` UKIP's results meant they became the | :40:34. | :40:43. | |
biggest opposition in Kent and West Sussex. | :40:44. | :40:51. | |
The party grabbed the media's attention. But, as they say, | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
today's headlines become tomorrow's chip paper. Six months on, is UKIP | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
proving that Ron? What do people think at this Ramsgate chip shop | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
about the impact of the new UKIP councillors on local politics? I | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
can't say I have noticed a great deal of difference. The thing that | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
will be noticed is the way they are making the other politicians who run | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
the country a more attention to what they are trying to do on immigration | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
and various other things. I do not have a clue who UKIP are but I am | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
always busy working. UKIP's strongest victory in the south`east | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
was inside it. The party took seven out of eight seats in this district | :41:35. | :41:36. | |
while Labour's won the remainder one. Because of their stance on | :41:37. | :41:43. | |
immigration, people are alienated and they feel they cannot get in | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
touch with them. People who may have come to this country who may need | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
help getting into their local primary school, for example, they do | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
not like they can contact their UKIP counsellor so I am being contacted | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
by them. I am eating up casework which I am happy to do but this is | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
the problem. There is a large community in Thanet which are not | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
being representative by their local councillors. There is greater UKIP | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
residents in Kent suddenly were asked in the country. So how have | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
they performed so far? The group has a good attendance record since May. | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
They were present at 85% of beatings they were expected to be at. So far | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
they have `` 85% of meetings. So far they have failed to table in | :42:30. | :42:39. | |
emotions. `` any notions. A keen observer of local government | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
believes that UKIP has a piecemeal approach. They are not a whipped | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
group, so within the group, individual councillors make look at | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
things differently to their colleagues. So they are not | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
particularly cohesive as an opposition force. One of the main | :43:00. | :43:06. | |
reasons is a manifesto which was very nationally focused, they have | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
come to the council without having any real engagement or experience of | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
having a counsellor `` being a councillor, or voting on policies on | :43:14. | :43:24. | |
schools or social care, which is key to local residents. One reason for | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
UKIP's apparent low profile could be the lack of experience. Most of its | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
councillors are relatively new to politics. Only three have prior | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
experience of local councils. So will be party have enough | :43:40. | :43:41. | |
high`calibre candidates to draw from the next general election when they | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
plan to contest every constituency in the country? It is a disgrace, a | :43:46. | :43:52. | |
disgrace. The spotlight on the party has already thrown up a number of | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
embarrassing controversies. MEP Godfrey Bloom was sacked from UKIP | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
after joking that a group of female activists were sluts. Before his | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
election, Martin Heal said he regretted the aim and active matter | :44:08. | :44:14. | |
`` member of the National front in the 1970s. And Jeffrey Clark was | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
suspended after claiming that unborn babies with Downs syndrome should be | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
compulsorily aborted. I do not think their performance in local | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
government is going to be a big factor in their performance in the | :44:28. | :44:29. | |
general election. What will matter will be the performance of their | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
leadership team and particularly Nigel Harwich, and whether or not `` | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
Nigel Franche, and whether or not they pick people who can do well or | :44:39. | :44:47. | |
they make their usual mistake of picking nutters. Six months ago, the | :44:48. | :44:54. | |
impact of UKIP was felt across the region but it seems they are yet to | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
capitalise on that. While the party `` will the party be a serious force | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
in politics or will its power in the next general election be limited to | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
splitting the force on the right and undermining the Tories? | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
We'll talk about the threat to the right ring vote with Paul in a | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
moment. First let's deal with perhaps the most serious accusation | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
in Bhavani's report, that your party isn't representing the people of | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
Kent because you've alienated so many of them. They do not feel they | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
can approach their councillors because of the language that has | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
been used. I do not understand that. We'll go be made that point in the | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
report. But he did not find any. It is just the Labour politician | :45:36. | :45:43. | |
accusing UKIP. You must have heard this accusation before. We represent | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
everyone, everyone should feel copped a ball coming to us, `` | :45:47. | :45:54. | |
comfortable coming to us, whether he is alluding to immigrants, they | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
should feel confident. But when people like Nigel Harwich talk about | :45:58. | :46:05. | |
things like Romanian criminal gangs come into the country... Let's talk | :46:06. | :46:14. | |
about that, 92% of ATM criminal crime is done by Romanian gangs. We | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
are talking about that language, that alienate a lot of people on the | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
local level. I do not accept it. What about the other accusation, | :46:25. | :46:32. | |
that you do not do any emotions. I am not on the council, I am here to | :46:33. | :46:40. | |
talk about Europe. There is an accusation that you do not have a | :46:41. | :46:43. | |
cohesive party strategy, that applies nationally as well. Do you | :46:44. | :46:54. | |
mean a whipping system? We take the view that one size does not fit all. | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
If in one ward they have issues with schools or roads, it does not | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
translate into the next ward. Especially in Kent, East Kent and | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
West Kent are very different. The danger is when it comes to European | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
elections, people are not sure what your party stand for. We have a full | :47:13. | :47:20. | |
manifesto. That is not coming through at local level. If it is not | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
coming to add local level now, that could damage your electoral | :47:24. | :47:31. | |
prospects. We stood on a local manifesto, we will have a full | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
manifesto for the European and 2015 elections. But people are not sure | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
what you stand for on specific issues. They will do, we will have a | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
full and investors. But so far they do not. But we do, have a manifesto. | :47:45. | :47:52. | |
In Europe, you are accused of being a lazy party. But we do not go there | :47:53. | :48:00. | |
to tweak legislation, we say, we do not believe any legislation should | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
come down from Europe. We go there and vote no, we do not fit their | :48:05. | :48:14. | |
tweaking and say that things should be voted on, 84% of legislation | :48:15. | :48:24. | |
comes from Europe. So we say no. That quote from Tim Luckhurst, the | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
problem you have got is that you do not have any high`calibre halibut, | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
and then `` can and do it, and therefore you will end up selecting | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
nutters, his quote was. He would say that. We have 330 applicants to the | :48:43. | :48:52. | |
seat which was narrowed down, I went to that process and I have also been | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
to the Conservative process and it was very vigorous. We have got | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
growing pains as a growing party. We are going to stand a full slate of | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
candidates. We have still got people from the old party but we are the | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
only party who do not allow people in from the BNP or the National | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
front. Labour do, they have got people who used to be BNP labours. | :49:19. | :49:26. | |
`` councillors. How concerned are you about the further damage this | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
party can do at the next election? The most difficult days in the last | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
few years that I have experienced in politics, UKIP did better than was | :49:37. | :49:39. | |
anticipated in the south`east particularly in Kent and Essex. We | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
are working alongside UKIP is the major opposition party, they were | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
enormously winded and quite shocked when some of the candidates were | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
enormously winded and quite shocked when some of the candidates woke up | :49:53. | :49:54. | |
to being county councillors. They have been enormously impressed by | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
what we do and carry out at County Hall in both the administration and | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
the context of the other services that we run. But when it comes to | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
national and European politics, which Janice is concerned about, how | :50:08. | :50:10. | |
much does it concern you when you hear the language in your party | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
changing when David Cameron talks about ways is in support of the EU? | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
Ed Miliband has accused your party of navel`gazing, that becomes a | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
destruction and its split the vote because people go to UKIP. It is a | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
big threat, we have the European elections coming up in June next | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
year. That is going to be a massive test. I think the issues at the | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
moment our immigration and our future in Europe. I think David | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
Cameron and the conservative National party has got to start | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
articulating what a re`negotiated arrangement looks like within the | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
European community, with our friends in the European Community because we | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
need to know. Personally I am on the fence, I neither am a Eurosceptic or | :51:00. | :51:09. | |
a Europhile, I can see problems. Let's have a good debate and start | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
that now. I don't Janice would love to start that now but we will have | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
to live that now `` leave it there! First it was the Big Six electricity | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
firms, then the water companies, and now Ed Miliband has set his sights | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
on the Wonga Economy. That's the payday lenders who add to what he | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
calls the cost of living crisis facing many families. Medway in Kent | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
has the greatest concentration of such companies in the country. So, | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
are they a dangerous force which, as the Labour leader says, are running | :51:36. | :51:38. | |
riot through our communities, or companies that offer an important | :51:39. | :51:40. | |
service to people in need of short`term loans? Earlier this week, | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
MPs on a House of Commons Select Committee questioned the bosses of | :51:46. | :51:48. | |
some of the biggest payday lenders, including Wonga. Do you think that | :51:49. | :51:56. | |
your charges are extortionate? You are a rapacious organisation buys | :51:57. | :52:04. | |
Mac no, we do not accept that. The product is used moderately by most | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
people, and competitive market of those people traditionally using | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
overdrafts and credit cards. What is your interest rate when people go | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
over the period of time, the overdraft equivalent? The | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
unauthorised overdraft charges... How much is that? If you borrow | :52:24. | :52:32. | |
?100, over 30 days, it is ?115. If you borrow from Wonga, it is ?37. | :52:33. | :52:39. | |
Our business loans to people who can pay us back, that is how we make our | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
money. The vast majority of people pay as back on time but we are | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
lending to vast amount of people small forms of credit. That compares | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
favourably to credit cards and banks. We're joined in the studio by | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
Councillor Vince Maple. Vince is a Labour councillor in Medway. It was | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
his party's initiative that brought about a ban on payday loan companies | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
advertising on council websites. You've taken some action, but you're | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
limited in what you can do? That is right. We have seen over the last | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
two years a fairly cross`party approach to this in Medway. | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
Councillors have all been frustrated in all`party administrations by | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
issues like the planning law which means we have no power to say, we | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
have got too many of these shops in our high street. We have seen | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
evidence from people like the CLB who have been shocking with the | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
levels of debt that people have and the link to payday lenders, | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
particularly those on our high streets, who I have been campaigning | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
very hard against. It is not just about saying payday lenders are bad. | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
It is also saying, what is the community alternative? That is where | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
credit unions are critical to the debate. That is one of the things | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
you would like, and I know Ed Miliband would like to take money, | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
tax the companies and spend it on publicly funded alternatives like | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
credit unions. You also want greater powers for local authorities so they | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
can stop the shops opening. That is right. We have seized the word | :54:06. | :54:12. | |
localism banded about more than ever recently, but local councillors, we | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
are representatives of our community, we are powerless at the | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
moment. We need to see big changes in planning laws to say it should be | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
local representatives elected by the community to form what the high | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
street and town centre looks like. All Carter, do you support the push | :54:32. | :54:41. | |
for greater powers locally? I think there should be national | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
localisation `` regulation, encouraging credit unions to | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
flourish where possible. These payday loan companies do fulfil a | :54:51. | :54:52. | |
function but the track record of people getting more and more into | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
debt and getting into all sorts of financial problems built on top of | :54:59. | :55:05. | |
each other and escalating, it needs to have limits. The sister stick | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
from the citizens advice bureau is interesting, clearly when most | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
people are feeling poorer in these difficult times with benefit | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
reductions and income reductions, there needs to be sensible, national | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
regulation and the preference for establishing good credit unions that | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
can lend money responsibly at affordable rates. Ed Miliband says | :55:31. | :55:33. | |
he wants a cap at the cost of credit, at 4000% APR charged by | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
these companies, whereas a credit union offers 26.8%. A cap sound | :55:40. | :55:49. | |
sensible. And 26.8 makes your eyes water as well. This is a difficult | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
area of business, there does need to be provision for short`term loans to | :55:54. | :56:01. | |
type people over difficult period in their family finances. This is the | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
problem, people need short`term help with their finances. These are | :56:06. | :56:07. | |
companies which exist because there is a market for them. The danger is | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
if we camped down too much, people go to loan sharks. If we have a cap | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
on interest rates, and I do not think the committee went too far on | :56:18. | :56:23. | |
that `` far enough on that, you should also have a cap on people | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
having loans in the year. There is a great credit union in our area that | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
we promote. You have to ask why people are in this state in the | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
first place, it is the cap on benefit and universal credit is not | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
going to work unless we reform certain other areas. If you look at | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
the common agricultural policy, for argument's say, it costs every | :56:46. | :56:53. | |
family 25%... Let's stick to payday loans, we are all agreed that more | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
needs to be done. Let's bring Vince back in. These are companies, you | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
heard their argument in the comments, they are quite sensible | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
and quite often more responsible in their lending than some of the banks | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
and credit card companies. I think it is about looking internationally. | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
Janice would love us to look at international issues but in lots of | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
countries, these organisations have been banned outright. It is about | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
looking at what has happened elsewhere. Absolutely about | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
promoting our credit unions to be great community cooperatives, and | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
making each other is a total cup on the cost of credit. `` making sure | :57:31. | :57:36. | |
there is a total cap on the cost of credit. | :57:37. | :57:38. | |
And now a round`up of the other political events that you might have | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
missed this week with our Political Editor, Louise Stewart. | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
Kent county council is consulted as on plans `` is consulting on plans | :57:48. | :57:55. | |
to end a three`year freeze on council. It has to save ?270 million | :57:56. | :58:03. | |
and looks likely to reject the extra money from the government. We would | :58:04. | :58:17. | |
not do fracking if we do not think it was face. The Mayor of London | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
used typical colourful language when he urged the company to enter the | :58:22. | :58:28. | |
dither and build an airport in the Thames in history. | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
And Nigel Farage does not seem to have learned his lesson. There was a | :58:35. | :58:41. | |
plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament. That was a violet | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
approach, you, of course, have taken the bowl and technocratic approach. | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
`` deep L and technocratic. You used quite strong language about | :58:49. | :59:04. | |
Eric 's pickles `` Eric pickles's approach to reduce council tax, you | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
called it a bribe, are you sticking to that? We have sought his help but | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
it does not solve the underlying pace budget problem with budgets in | :59:13. | :59:22. | |
local authorities. We have frozen council tax and used every trick in | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
the book, we have taken up his small amounts of money when we have had to | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
make savings of ?90 million. We have to find that again every year. You | :59:32. | :59:38. | |
are sticking two fingers up by the sounds that! It is not adequate. We | :59:39. | :59:45. | |
are consulting on a council tax increase on nine point `` 1.90%, | :59:46. | :59:54. | |
just below the cap. That only produces ?10 million when we have | :59:55. | :59:57. | |
two save ?90 million for three years. Does your heart sinks when | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
you hear Nigel Farage talk like that? Absolutely not. That is why | :00:02. | :00:08. | |
people vote for UKIP, that is why people are fed up with the | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
coalition. At least the media are now reporting what is going on over | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
there, 84% of our laws come from Europe, that has got to stop. That | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
is all we have got time for. Thank you to our guests. Julia will be | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
here next week. We learned this week that no more | :00:25. | :00:40. | |
warships will be built at Portsmouth, the home of the Royal | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
Navy since the days of the Mary Rose and Francis Drake. But has the city | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
been sacrificed to save jobs on the Clyde in Scotland? Is England the | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
loser in an effort to keep the United Kingdom intact? Let's speak | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign for an English Parliament. Is | :00:56. | :01:06. | |
England the loser in this attempt to keep the | :01:07. | :01:07. | |
doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year? | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
true representation. The union continues but it continues without | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year We | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
or England can have a fair deal within the union, that is brilliant. | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally If | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes, | :02:34. | :02:42. | |
it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament, | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
British come English Parliament the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly. | :04:05. | :04:13. | |
Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
to have their representation - representation that looks at | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system | :04:37. | :04:47. | |
might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you | :04:48. | :04:55. | |
want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
implement the process is to get their representation for England. I | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education. | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
British government is trying desperately to save the union by | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two. | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more | :07:01. | :07:08. | |
autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde, | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
being in the United Kingdom and under their breath, or in the case | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So, | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I | :08:12. | :08:20. | |
have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it? | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine I | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around | :08:52. | :09:16. | |
you who took cocaine, they went .. Is it better to confess or the that | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant | :09:52. | :10:02. | |
to be regarded as a rising star turns out he was claiming to heat | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy | :10:27. | :10:34. | |
is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot, | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
cannot have a front line career There is the politician confessing | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine He | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him. | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised. | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 201 , | :11:55. | :12:02. | |
early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
will have two find an extra ?40 a month to pay them off. I would not | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this | :12:13. | :12:24. | |
trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very | :12:25. | :12:33. | |
careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates. | :12:50. | :12:59. | |
-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
about it, it is senior figures people in senior economic positions. | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am. | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:32. | :13:42. |