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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
Labour's been hit hard by scandals at the Co-op. Ed Miliband says the | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
Tories are mudslinging. We'll speak to Conservative Chairman Grant | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
Shapps. Five years on from the financial | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
crisis, and we're still talking about banks in trouble. Why haven't | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
the regulators got the message? We'll ask the man who runs the | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
City's new financial watchdog. And he used to have a windmill on | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
his roof and talked about giving hugs to hoodies and huskies. These | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
days, not so much. Has the plan to make the Conservative Party more | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
In the South East, it is the season to be sharpening `` shopping. We | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
homelessness and population ships. What is the evidence? | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
And as always, the political panel that reaches the parts other shows | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
can only dream of. Janan Ganesh Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. They ll | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
be tweeting faster than England loses wickets to Australia. Yes | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
they're really that fast. First, some big news overnight from | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
Geneva, where Iran has agreed to curb some of its nuclear activities | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
in return for the partial easing of sanctions. Iran will pause the | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
enrichment of uranium to weapons grade and America will free up some | :01:52. | :02:01. | |
funds for Iran to spend. May be up to $10 billion. A more comprehensive | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
deal is supposed to be done in six months. Here's what President Obama | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
had to say about this interim agreement. We have pursued intensive | :02:08. | :02:16. | |
diplomacy, bilaterally with the Iranians, and together with our | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
partners, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Russia and China, | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
as well as the European Union. Today, that diplomacy opened up a | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
new path towards a world that is more secure, a future in which we | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
can verify that Iraq and's nuclear programme is peaceful, and that it | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
cannot build a nuclear weapon. President Obama spoke from the White | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
House last night. Now the difficulty begins. This is meant to lead to a | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
full-scale agreement which will effectively end all sanctions, and | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
end Iran's ability to have a bomb. The early signs are pretty good The | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
Iranian currency strengthened overnight, which is exactly what the | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
Iranians wanted. Inflation in Iraq is 40%, so they need a stronger | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
currency. -- information in Iran. France has played a blinder. It was | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
there intransigence that led to this. Otherwise, I think the West | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
would have led to a much softer deal. The question now becomes | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
implementation. Here, everything hinges on two questions. First, who | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
is Hassan Rouhani? Is he the Iranians Gorbachev, a serious | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
reformer, or he's here much more tactical and cynical figure? Or | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
within Iran, how powerful is he There are military men and | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
intelligence officials within Iran who may stymie the process. The | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
Western media concentrate on the fact that Mr Netanyahu and the | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
Israelis are not happy about this. They don't often mention that the | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
Arab Gulf states are also very apprehensive about this deal. I read | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
this morning that the enemies of Qatar and Kuwait went to Saudi king. | :04:11. | :04:20. | |
-- the MAs row. That is the key thing to watch in the next couple of | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
weeks. There was a response from Saudi Arabia, but it came from the | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
Prime Minister of Israel, who said this was a historic mistake. The | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
United States said there would be no enrichment of uranium to weapons | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
grade. In the last few minutes, the Iranian Foreign Minister has tweeted | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
to say that there is an inalienable right -- right to enrich. The key | :04:44. | :04:53. | |
thing is the most important thing that President Obama said in his | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
inaugural speech. He reached out to Iran. It failed under President | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
McKenna jab. Under President Rouhani, there seems to be progress. | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
There is potentially now what he talked about in that first inaugural | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
address potentially coming through. In the end, the key issue - and we | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
don't know the answer - is the supreme leader, not the president. | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
Will the supreme leader agreed to Iran giving up its ability to create | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
nuclear weapons? This is the huge ambiguity. Ayatollah Khamenei | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
authorise the position that President Rouhani took to Geneva. | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
That doesn't mean he will sign off on every bit of implementation over | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
the next six months. Even when President Ahmadinejad was president, | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
he wasn't really President. We in the West have to resort to a kind of | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
Iranians version of the study of the Kremlin, to work out what is going | :05:57. | :06:06. | |
on. And the problem the president faces is that if there is any | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
sign... He can unlock these funds by executive order at the moment, but | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
if he needs any more, he has to go to Congress. Both the Democrat and | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
the Republican side have huge scepticism about this. And he has | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
very low credibility now. There s already been angry noises coming | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
from quite a lot of senators. It was quite strange to see that photo of | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
John Kerry hugging Cathy Ashton as if they had survived a ship great | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
together. John Kerry is clearly feeling very happy. We will keep an | :06:42. | :06:52. | |
eye on this. It is a fascinating development. | :06:53. | :06:54. | |
More lurid details about the personal life of the Co-op Bank s | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
disgraced former chairman, the Reverend Paul Flowers. The links | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
between Labour, the bank and the wider Co-op movement have caused big | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
problems for Ed Miliband this week, and the Conservatives have been | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
revelling in it. But do the Tory allegations - Ed Miliband calls them | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
"smears" - stack up? Party Chairman Grant Shapps joins us from Hatfield. | :07:15. | :07:23. | |
Welcome to the programme. When it comes to the Co-op, what are you | :07:24. | :07:32. | |
accusing Labour of knowing and when? I think the simple thing to say here | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
is that the Co-op is an important bank. They have obviously got into | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
difficulty with Reverend flowers, and our primary concern is making | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
sure that that is properly investigated, and that we understand | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
what happened at the bank and how somebody like Paul Flowers could | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
have ended up thing appointed chairman. You wrote to edge Miliband | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
on Tuesday and asked him what he knew and when. -- you wrote to Ed | :07:59. | :08:05. | |
Miliband. But by Prime Minister s Questions on Wednesday, David | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
Cameron claims that you knew that Labour knew about his past all | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
along. What is the evidence for that? We found out by Wednesday that | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
he had been a Labour councillor Reverend Flowers, and had been made | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
to stand down. Certainly, Labour knew about that, but somehow didn't | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
seem to think that that made him less appropriate to be the chairman | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
of the Co-op bank. There was no evidence that Mr Miliband or Mr | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
Balls knew about that. I ask you again, what are you accusing the | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
Labour leadership of knowing? We know now that he stood down for very | :08:50. | :08:59. | |
inappropriate images on his computer, apparently. You are | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
telling me that they didn't know. I am not sure that is clear at all. I | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
have heard conflicting reports. There is a much bigger argument | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
about what they knew and when. There was a much bigger issue here. This | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
morning, Ed Miliband has said that they don't have to answer these | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
questions and that these smears This is ludicrous. These are | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
important questions about an important bank, how it ended up | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
getting into this position, and how a disastrous Britannia -- Italia | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
deal happen. -- Britannia deal happened. And we need to know how | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
the bank came off the rails. To be accused of smears for asking the | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
questions is ridiculous. I am just trying to find out what you are | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
accusing Labour of. You saying that the Labour leadership knew about the | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
drug-taking? Sorry, there was some noise here. I don't know what was | :09:56. | :10:04. | |
known and when. We do know that Labour, the party, certainly knew | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
about these very difficult circumstances in which he resigned | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
as a councillor. I think that the Labour Party knew about it. We knew | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
that Bradford did, but not London. Are you saying that Ed Miliband knew | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
about the inappropriate material on the Reverend's laptop? It is | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
certainly the case that Labour knew about it. But did Mr Miliband know | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
about it, and his predilection for rent boys? He will need to answer | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
those questions. It is quite proper to ask those questions. Surely, | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
asking a perfectly legitimate set of questions, not just about that but | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
about how we have ended up in a situation where this bank has made | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
loans to Labour for millions of pounds, that bank and the Unite | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
bank, who is connected to it. And how they made a ?50,000 donation to | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
Ed Balls' office. Ed Balls says that was nothing to do with Reverend | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
Flowers, and yet Reverend Flowers said that he personally signed that | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
off. Lots of questions to answer. David Cameron has already answered | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
them on Wednesday. He said that you now know that Labour knew about his | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
past all along. You have not been able to present evidence that | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
involve Mr Miliband or Mr Balls in that. So until you get that, surely | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
you should apologise? Hang on. He said that Labour knew about this, | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
and they did, because he stood down as a councillor. If Ed Miliband | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
didn't know about that, then why not? This was quite a serious thing | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
that happened. The wider point is about why it is that when you ask | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
perfectly legitimate questions about this bank, about the Britannia deal, | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
and about the background of Mr flowers, why is the response, it is | :12:00. | :12:09. | |
all smears? There are questions about how Labour failed to deal with | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
the deficit and how it hasn't done anything to support the welfare | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
changes, but there is nothing about that. Let us -- lets: To the wider | :12:17. | :12:25. | |
picture of the Co-operative Bank. Labour wanted the Co-op to take over | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
the Britannia Building Society, and it was a disaster. Do you accept | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
that? The government of the day has to be a part of these discussions | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
for regulatory reason. The government in 2009 - Ed Balls was | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
very pleased... But you supported that decision. There was a later | :12:51. | :12:57. | |
deal, potentially, for the Co-op to buy those Lloyds branches. There was | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
a proper process and it didn't go through just recently. If there had | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
been a proper process back in 2 09, would the Britannia deal have gone | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
through? First, you accept that the Tories were in favour of the | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
Britannia take over. Then your Chancellor Osborne went out of his | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
way to facilitate the purchase of the Lloyds branches, even though you | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
had no idea that the Co-op had the management expertise to become a | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
super medium. Correct? The difference is that that deal didn't | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
go through. There was a proper process that took place. Let's look | :13:42. | :13:48. | |
at the process. There was long indications as far back as January | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
2012 that the Co-op, as a direct result of the Britannia take over | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
which you will party supported, was unfit to acquire the Lloyds | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
branches. By January 2012, the Chancellor and the Treasury ignored | :14:04. | :14:10. | |
the warnings. Wide? In 2009, there was political pressure for the | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
Britannia to be brought together. Based on the information available, | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
this was supported, but that process ended up with a very, very | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
problematic takeover of the Britannia. Wind forward to this | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
year, and when the same types of issues were being looked at for the | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
purchase of the Lloyds deal, the proper process was followed, this | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
time with us in government, and that purchase didn't go through. It is | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
important that the proper process is followed, and when it was, it | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
transpired that the deal wasn't going to be done. But it was the | :14:43. | :14:52. | |
Treasury and the Chancellor who were the cheerleaders for the acquisition | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
of the Lloyds branches. But there was a warning that the Co-op did not | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
have enough capital on its balance sheet to make those acquisitions, | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
but instead of heeding those warnings, your people went to | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
Brussels to lobby for the requirements to be relaxed - why on | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
earth did you do that? Our Chancellor went to argue for all of | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
Rajesh banking, not specifically for the Co-op. He was arguing for the | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
mutuals to be given a special ruling. The idea was to make sure | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
that every bank in Britain could have a better deal, particularly the | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
mutuals, as you say. That is a proper thing for the Chancellor to | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
be doing. We could go round in circles here, but in the end, there | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
was not a takeover of the Lloyds branches, that is because we | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
followed a proper process. Had that same rigorous process been followed | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
in 2009, the legitimate question to ask is whether the Co-op would have | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
been -- would have taken over the Britannia. That is a proper question | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
to ask. It is no good to have the leader of the opposition say, as | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
soon as you ask any of these questions about anything where there | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
is a problem for them, they come back with, oh, this is all smears. | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
There are questions to ask about what the Labour government did, the | :16:12. | :16:14. | |
debt and the deficit they left the country with, the way they stopped | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
work from paying in this country. The big question your government has | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
two answer is, why, by July 201 , when it was clear there was a black | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
hole in the Co-op's balance sheet, your government re-confirmed the | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
Co-op as the preferred bidder for Lloyds - why would you do that? | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
Well, look, the good thing is, we can discuss this until the cows come | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
home, but there is going to be a proper, full investigation, so we | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
will find out what happened, all the way back. So, we will be able to get | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
to the bottom of all of this. Grant Shapps, the only reason the Lloyds | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
deal did not go ahead was, despite the Treasury cheerleading, when | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
Lloyds began its due diligence, it found that there was indeed a huge | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
black hole in the balance sheet and that the Co-op was not fit to take | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
over its branches. That wasn't you, it wasn't the Government, it was not | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
the Chancellor, it was Lloyds. You were still cheerleading for the deal | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
to go ahead... Well, as I say, a proper process was followed, which | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
did not result in the purchase of the Lloyds branches. At that proper | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
process been followed with the purchase of the Britannia, under the | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
previous government... Which you supported. Yes, but it may well be | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
that under that previous deal, there was a excess political pressure | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
perhaps put on in order to create that merger, which proved so | :17:43. | :17:50. | |
disastrous. The Tories facilitated it, Grant Shapps, they allowed it to | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
go ahead. I have said, we are going to have a proper, independent | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
review. What I cannot understand is, when you announce a robber, | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
independent review, the response you get to these serious questions. The | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
response is, oh, this is a smear. It is crazy. We are trying to answer | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
the big questions for this country. We have done all of that, and we are | :18:16. | :18:25. | |
out of time. The Reverend Flowers' chairmanship of the Co-op bank was | :18:26. | :18:27. | |
approved by the regulator at the time, which no longer exists. It was | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
swept away by the coalition government in a supposed revolution | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
in regulation. But will its replacement, the Financial Conduct | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
Authority, be different? Adam has been to find out. Come with me for a | :18:41. | :18:49. | |
spin around the Square mile to find out how we regulate our financial | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
sector, which is almost five times bigger than the country's entire | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
annual income. First, let's pick up our guide, journalist Iain Martin, | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
who has just written a book about what went so wrong during the | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
financial crisis. The FSA was an agency which was established to | :19:11. | :19:12. | |
supervise the banks on a day-to day basis. The Bank of England was | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
supposed to have overall responsible at for this to Bolivia the financial | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
system and the Treasury was supposed to take an interest in all of these | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
things. The disaster was that it was not anyone's call responsibility, or | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
main day job, to stay alert as to whether or not the banking system as | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
a whole was being run in a safe manner. And so this April, a new | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
system was set up to police the City. Most of the responsibly delays | :19:39. | :19:48. | |
here, with the Bank of England, and its new Prudential Regulation | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
Authority. And the Financial Services Authority has been replaced | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
with the new Financial Conduct Authority. Can we go to the | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
financial conduct authority, please? Canary Wharf, thank you. Here, it is | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
all about whether the people in financial services are playing by | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
the rules, in particular, how they treat their customers. This place | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
has got new powers, like the ability to ban products it does not like, a | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
new mandate to promote competition in the market, the concept being, | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
more competition means a better market, plus the idea that a new | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
organisation rings a whole new culture. Although these are the old | :20:28. | :20:34. | |
offices of the FSA, so maybe not quite so new after all. It has also | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
inherited the case of the Co-op bank and its disgraced former chairman | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
the Reverend Paul Flowers. The SCA will be part of the investigation | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
into what happened, which will probably involve looking at its own | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
conduct. One member of the Parliamentary commission into | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
banking wonders whether the new regulator, and its new boss, are up | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
to it. I have always said, it is not the architecture which is the issue, | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
it is the powers that the regulator has, and today, it does not seem to | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
me as if there is any increase in that. And with the unfolding scandal | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
at the Co-op, it feels like the new architecture for regulating the City | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
is now facing its first big test. And the chief executive of the | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
Financial Conduct Authority, the SCA, Martin Wheatley, joins me now. | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
Welcome to The Sunday Politics. The failure of bank regulation was one | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
of the clearest lessons of the crash in 2008, and yet two years later, in | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
2010, Paul Flowers is allowed to become chairman of the Co-op - why | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
have we still not got the regulation right? We have made a lot of changes | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
since then. We have created a new regulator, as you know. At the time, | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
we still had a process which allowed somebody to be appointed to a bank | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
and they would go through a challenge, but in the case of Paul | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
Flowers, there was no need for an additional challenge when he was | :22:03. | :22:04. | |
appointed to chairman, because he was already on the board. But going | :22:05. | :22:11. | |
from being on the board to becoming chairman, that is a big jump, and he | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
only had one interview? That is why today, it would be different. But | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
the truth is, that was the system at the time, the system which the FSA | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
operated. He was challenged, we did challenge him, and we said, you do | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
not have the right experience, but at the time, we would not have | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
opposed the appointment. What we needed was additional representation | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
of the board of people who did have banking experience. You can say that | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
that was then and this is now, but up until April of this year, it was | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
still the plan for the Co-op, under Mr Flowers, and despite being | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
seriously wounded by the Britannia takeover, to take on 632 Lloyds | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
branches. That was the Co-op's plan. They needed to pass our test | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
as to whether we thought they were fit to do that, and frankly, they | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
never passed that test. It was not the regulator that stopped them It | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
was. We were constantly pushing back, saying, you have not got the | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
capital, you have no got the systems, and ultimately, they | :23:13. | :23:14. | |
withdrew, when they could not answer our questions. You were asking the | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
right questions, I accept that, but all of the time, the politicians on | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
all sides, they were pushing for it to happen, and I cannot find | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
anywhere where the regulator said, look, this is just not going to | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
happen. I cannot comment on what the politicians were doing, but I | :23:36. | :23:38. | |
continue what we were doing, which was constantly asking the Co-op | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
have you got the systems in place, have you got the people, have you | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
got the capital? And they didn't. But it only came to a head when | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
Lloyds started its own due diligence on the bank, and they discovered | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
that it was impossible for them to take over the branches, it was not | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
the regulator... In fairness, what we do is ask the questions, can you | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
do this deal? And we kept pushing back, and we never frankly got | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
delivered a business plan which we were happy to approve. Is the SCA | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
going to launch its own inquiry into what happened? -- the FCA. The | :24:15. | :24:25. | |
Chancellor has announced what will be a very broad inquiry. There are a | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
number of specifics which we will be able to look at, relating to events | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
over the last five years. Could there be a police investigation I | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
think the police have already announced an investigation. I am | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
talking about into the handling of the bank. It depends. There might | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
be, if there is grim low activity, which we do not know yet. You worked | :24:48. | :24:56. | |
at the FS eight, didn't you? I did. Some of those people who were signed | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
off on the speedy promotion of Mr Flowers, are they now working | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
there? Yes, we have some. I came to join the Financial Services | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
Authority, to lead it into the creation of the new body, the SCA. | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
We had people who were challenging and they did the job. There was not | :25:19. | :25:29. | |
a requirement to approve the role as chairman. There was not even a | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
requirement to interview at that stage. What we did do was to require | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
that he was interviewed, and that the Co-op should get additional | :25:38. | :25:49. | |
experience. One of the people from the old organisation, who signed up | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
on the promotion of Mr Flowers to become chairman is now a | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
nonexecutive director of the Co op, so how does that work? Welcome he | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
was a senior adviser to our organisation, one of the people who | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
made the challenges, and who said, you need more experience on your | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
board. Subsequently he then went and joined the board. Surely that should | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
not be allowed, the regulator and the regulated should not be like | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
that. Well clearly, you need protection, but we have got to get | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
good people in, and frankly, we want the industry to have good people in | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
the industry, so there will be some movement between the regulator and | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
industry. We all wonder whether you have the power or even the | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
confidence to stand up if you look at all of the really bad bank | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
decisions recently, politicians were behind them. It was Gordon Brown who | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
pushed the disastrous merger of Lloyds and RBS. It was Alex Salmond | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
who egged on RBS to buy the world. All three main parties wanted the | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
Co-op to buy Britannia, even though they did not know the debt it would | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
inherit, and all three wanted the Co-op to buy the Lloyds branches - | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
how do you as a regulator stand up to that little concert party? Well, | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
that political pressure exists, our job at the end of the day is to do a | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
relatively technical job and say, does it stack up? And it didn't and | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
we made that point time and time again to the Co-op board. They did | :27:18. | :27:20. | |
not have a business case that we could approve. The bodies on left | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
and right -- the politicians on left and right gave the Co-op special | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
support. They may have done, but that was not you have made a warning | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
about these payday lenders, but I think what most people would like to | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
see is a limit put on the interest they can charge over a period of | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
time - will you do that? We have got a whole set of powers for payday | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
lenders. We will bring in some changes from April next year, and we | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
will bring in further changes as we see necessary. Will you put a limit | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
on the interest they can charge That is something we can study. You | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
do not sound too keen on it? Well, there are a lot of changes we need | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
to make. One change is limiting rollovers, limiting the use of | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
continuous payment authorities. Simply jumping to one trigger would | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
be a mistake. Finally, an issue which I think is becoming a growing | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
concern, because the Government is thinking of subsidising them, 9 % | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
mortgages are back - should we not be worried about that? I think we | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
should if the market has the same experiences that we had back in 2007 | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
- oh wait. We are bringing a comprehensive package in under our | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
mortgage market review, which will change how people lend and will put | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
affordability back at the heart of lending decisions. -- 2007-08. You | :28:45. | :28:55. | |
have not had your first big challenge yet, have you? We have | :28:56. | :28:56. | |
many challenges. It was once called the battle of the | :28:57. | :29:06. | |
mods and the rockers - the fight between David Cameron-style | :29:07. | :29:08. | |
modernisers and old-style traditional Tories for the direction | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
and soul of the Conservative Party. But have the mods given up on | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
changing the brand? When David Cameron took over in 2005, he | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
promoted himself as a new Tory leader. He said that hoodies need | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
more love. He was talking about something called the big society. He | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
told his party conference that it was time to that sunshine win the | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
day. There was new emphasis on the environment, and an eye-catching | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
trip to a Norwegian glacier to see first-hand, supposedly, the effects | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
of global warming. This week, party modernise and Nick bone has said | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
that the party is still seen as an old-fashioned monolith and hasn t | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
done enough to improve its appeal. The Tories have put some reforms | :29:58. | :30:05. | |
into practice, such as gay marriage, but they have put more into welfare | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
reform band compassionate conservatism. David Cameron wants | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
talked about leading the greenest government ever. Downing Street says | :30:15. | :30:22. | |
that the quote in the Son is not recognised, get rid of the green | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
crap. At this point in the programme we were expecting to hear from the | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
Energy and Climate Change Minister, Greg Barker. Unfortunately, he has | :30:33. | :30:34. | |
pulled out, with Downing Street saying it's for ""family reasons"". | :30:35. | :30:41. | |
Make of that what you will. However, we won't be deterred. We're still | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
doing the story, and we're joined by our very own mod and rocker - David | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
Skelton of the think-tank Renewal, and Conservative MP Peter Bone. | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
Welcome to you both. I'm glad your family is allowed you to come? David | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
Skelton, getting rid of all the green crap, or words to that effect, | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
that David Cameron has been saying. It is just a sign that Tory | :31:06. | :31:07. | |
modernisation has been quietly buried. I do think that's right | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
Modernisation is about reaching out to the voters, and the work to do | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
that is now more relevant than ever. We got the biggest swing since 931, | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
and the thing is we need to do more to reach out to voters in the North. | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
We need to reach out to non-white voters, and show that the concerns | :31:30. | :31:38. | |
of modern Britain and the concerns of ordinary people is something that | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
we share. And what way will racking up electricity bills with green | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
levies get you more votes in the North of England? We have to look at | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
ways to reduce energy bills. The renewable energy directive doesn't | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
do anything to help cut our emissions, but does decrease energy | :31:56. | :32:02. | |
bills by ?45 a year. We should renegotiate that. That is a part of | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
modernisation and doing what ordinarily people want. And old | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
dinosaurs like you are just holding this modernisation process back I | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
am very appreciative of covering on this programme. The Tory party has | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
been reforming itself for more than 150 years. This idea of modern eyes | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
a is just some invention. We are changing all the time. I'm nice and | :32:27. | :32:34. | |
cuddly! So you are happy that the party made gay marriage almost a | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
kind of symbol of its modernisation? Fine Mac the gay marriage was a free | :32:40. | :32:47. | |
vote. David Cameron was recorded as a rebel there because more Tories | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
voted against his position than ever before. It was said that this was a | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
split between the old and young but it actually was a split between | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
those who were religious and nonreligious. It is a | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
misinterpretation of what happened. Is a modernisation in retreat? I | :33:04. | :33:11. | |
think modernisation is an invention. Seven years ago, in my | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
part of the world, we got three councillors elected, two were 8 and | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
one was 21. A few months ago, a 25-year-old was chosen to fight | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
Corby for the Conservative Party. He came from a comprehensive School. He | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
was one of the youngest. The Tory party is moving on. So you found | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
three young people? Hang on a minute. You can't get away with | :33:39. | :33:47. | |
that. Three in one batch. Does modernisation exist? Modernisation | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
is about watering our appeal and sharing our values are relevant to | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
voters who haven't really thought about voting for us for decades now. | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
Modernisation is about more than windmills and stuff, it is about | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
boosting the life chances of the poorest, it is about putting better | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
schools in poorer areas. It is also saying that modernisation and the | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
Tory party... When has the Tory party been against making poorer | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
people better off? Or against better schools? Do you think Mrs Thatcher | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
was a moderniser when she won all those elections? The problem we have | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
at the moment is that UKIP has grown-up. If we could get all of | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
those people who vote UKIP to vote for us, we would get 47% of the | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
vote. We don't need to worry about voters on the left. We need to worry | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
about the voters in the north, those people who haven't voted for us for | :34:45. | :34:52. | |
decades. Having an EU Referendum Bill is going to get people to | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
vote. We have to reach out to voters, but not by some sort of | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
London based in need. You have to broaden your base. I agree with you | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
on that. We have to broaden our appeal, but this back to the future | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
concept is not going to work. We need something that generally | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
appeals to low and middle-income voters, and something that shows we | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
genuinely care about the life chances of the poorest. Do you think | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
that the people who vote UKIP don't support those aspirations? We are | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
not doing enough to cut immigration. We don't have an EU Referendum Bill | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
stop we have to get the centre right to vote for us again. Do that, and | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
we have it. Tom Pursglove, the 5 euros, will be returned in Corby | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
because we cannot win an election there. -- the 25-year-old. Whether | :35:49. | :36:01. | |
you are moderniser or traditionalist, people, particularly | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
in the North, see you as a bunch of rich men. And rich southerners. You | :36:08. | :36:15. | |
are bunch of rich southerners. We need to do more to show that we are | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
building on lifting the poorest out of the tax. We need to build more | :36:21. | :36:27. | |
houses. There is a perception that the leadership at the moment is | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
rich, and public school educated. What we have to do is get more | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
people from state education into the top. You are going the other way at | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
the moment. That is a fair criticism. Modernisers also say | :36:43. | :36:51. | |
that. I went to a combo hedge of school as well. -- do a | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
comprehensive school. We need to show that we are standing up | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
comprehensive school. We need to income. Thank Q, both of you. You | :37:01. | :37:07. | |
are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just under 20 minutes, | :37:08. | :37:09. | |
I will be looking Hello, I am Natalie Graham and this | :37:10. | :37:26. | |
Sunday Politics the South East. Why is it that where you live seems to | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
determine how long you live? We will be looking at the results of some | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
king being done by a Sussex charity. Joining me is Richard Ashworth who | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
was until this week leader of the Conservatives in the European | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
Parliament. And the Labour candidate for Brighton. This week a former | :37:49. | :37:56. | |
minister who had come out as gay survived an attempt by some local | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
Conservatives to stop him standing as the party candidate at the next | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
election. Some members of the party executive wanted to stop blocking | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
because of his sexuality. What does this tell us about the modern Tory | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
party? It tells us there is still a nice day element in the party. `` | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
nasty. It is wrong to say that it was a personal thing. I think there | :38:23. | :38:29. | |
were a lot of other issues that have gone over five years that he has had | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
to reconcile with his executive, I do not know exactly what they were, | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
it would not be right for us to assume what they were. You have had | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
your own selection issues. You were not automatically selected by the | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
party to stand for election in the European elections next year. Where | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
does that leave you feeling about your party? Number three on the | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
list. I hope I get elected. I am grateful to be there and I'm looking | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
forward to the election. Is that a reaction to your pro`European | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
views? I would not have thought so. I have a mainstream conservative | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
view, Europe is there and it needs to change. We are the people that | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
need to do the job and that is the day job for me. Why were you not | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
automatically selected then? You would have to ask the people who did | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
that. I do not know. Nancy, your party has at selection issues as | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
well. You have trade union likes and that has been a `` an accusation at | :39:37. | :39:44. | |
you. There have been lots of insinuations made and we have made | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
it clear that there was no issues with my selection. I was selected by | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
a members at a local meeting. It has been a damaging event for the party | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
and will raise questions about candidates as they are selected. I | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
do not think so. I am proud of my trade union backing. One of the good | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
things the party has done is to bring in a much more diverse range | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
of people into politics. We have made to change the face of | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
Parliament, we have lots of work going on with black and ethnic | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
minority communities. We are trying to make Parliament as representative | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
of the community as possible. That is the goal that Oliver should be | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
aiming for in every party. `` we should all. If you have started your | :40:35. | :40:44. | |
Christmas shopping, you might have made some decisions. In Brighton and | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
Hove, parking for more than four hours in the city centre can cost | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
more than ?25 full top but last week there was some relief for drivers in | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
the city, the will get some free parking. The aim is to help local | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
businesses, but the plans are controversial. We will hear from the | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
Green leader of the council. But first we went to find out why some | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
motorists and businesses think free parking is not good. | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
It is being hailed as a small victory for the motorist in a city | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
that some campaigners and businesses feel has gained a reputation for | :41:25. | :41:34. | |
being anti`car. Free parking at five Brighton and Hove car parks in the | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
run`up to Christmas was voted through by the city council last | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
week. The move was opposed by the minority Green administration but | :41:44. | :41:45. | |
Labour and Conservative councillors joined forces to make sure the | :41:46. | :41:54. | |
proposal was passed. The campaign group lobbied for the free parking. | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
What has frightened us is the impact that the high parking charges have | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
had on public perception of Brighton as a destination. That has fed | :42:06. | :42:13. | |
through to a lot of trade. It is more a case of getting those | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
messages out that Brighton is not necessarily going to cost you a | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
fortune to use it. It is estimated the free parking bays will cost the | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
council ?112,000. The green council leader branded the plan | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
anti`business, saying it would cause congestion and pollution. But | :42:34. | :42:35. | |
another other councils across the South East have regularly offered | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
free parking to help changing the festive season as it is a time when | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
shops these days `` stiff competition from online traders. It | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
has been happening in Sevenoaks several years. It encourages people | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
to come in during the peak Christmas season and that is something we are | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
going to keep doing to do. The longer people stay, they are likely | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
to do more things. They might stop for a copy, they might not feel | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
under pressure to Russian and rush out, so they will browse. A lot of | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
shops depend on people walking past. Those in favour of free parking here | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
in Britain `` Brighton, hope it will increase the number of shoppers. | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
There has been an overall drop of the ball `` footfall of around 11% | :43:24. | :43:34. | |
from last year. This independent gift shop has been in business for | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
26 years and its owner says she relies on passing trade. She | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
welcomes the free festive parking but feels more needs to be done to | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
encourage motorists to visit during the rest of the year. I think it is | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
too little too late. It is a talking gesture and not enough. I would say | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
three out of five days of the week are quiet because Babel are not | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
coming into town in the way they used to and they are leaving early | :44:02. | :44:12. | |
as well. `` they are not. People are leaving earlier in the day so all in | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
all it is having a big impact. So at the time of year when local | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
authorities are doing their best to help shops from maximising on | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
festive trade, why is Britain's green council syllables to doing the | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
same? The campaign which is supported by some of the city's | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
biggest businesses and tourists attractions says it is down to the | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
Green Party transport policy. They say cars as a source of all evil. | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
They don't actually have any understanding that it actually | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
brings a great deal of good into the city. Their ideology takes | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
precedence over the needs of the city. We have an administration that | :44:55. | :45:01. | |
doesn't understand the essential need of the motor vehicle for the | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
business community. And that the customer is who will use a motor | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
vehicle because that is the only means that they have of actually | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
getting into the town. So an early president for `` present for | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
motorists wanting to drive into Brighton to do their Christmas | :45:21. | :45:21. | |
shopping will stop ``. Were you playing Scrooge because you | :45:22. | :45:43. | |
were opposing the free parking on environmental grounds or because you | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
do not think it will help local businesses? Not at all. It is a | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
shame some of those back were wrong in that report. The ?25 parking fee | :45:53. | :46:00. | |
you quoted, I am not of that anywhere in the city. We are talking | :46:01. | :46:07. | |
generally about the issue. This whole issue is about council run car | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
parks. Those are full. It is about how much the car in the centre of | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
Brighton is a factor in the foot all been down 11%. `` footfall. Other | :46:17. | :46:27. | |
indicators are showing improvements. The number of people on jobseeker's | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
allowance is down, new businesses are at. Is this growth is up. Lots | :46:31. | :46:37. | |
of people come into our city in a method other than car. That is why | :46:38. | :46:45. | |
Brighton Station is the 30th `` 13th busiest in the country. You oppose | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
the plan because you do not think it is a factor in the economic | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
situation in Brighton in helping local businesses? The car parks may | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
have mentioned are full in the run`up to Christmas. We are popular | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
shopping destination. We do not think doing this is good for | :47:04. | :47:12. | |
businesses. To give away free parking at Christmas is like handing | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
out free tickets to the cinema on a Saturday afternoon when the shows | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
are to anyway. Your party were proposing not a radically different | :47:24. | :47:30. | |
solution. Free parking in Norton Road and Hove in a permanent cotton | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
prices in London Road car park. So you do want free car parking to | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
encourage people to come by car to Brighton and Hove? `` per minute cut | :47:41. | :47:49. | |
in prices. We responded to that. The city centre is different, it was for | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
Sundays only in response to set up a market on. That's a separate that we | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
try and bundle up into that report just to save on committee time. You | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
have told me that free parking is going to harm businesses. Your party | :48:06. | :48:13. | |
was proposing a cheaper alternative to subsidise free parking in other | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
council run car parks. We do not do that. The economy in Brighton and | :48:20. | :48:27. | |
Hove is doing very well. The fact is that we are incredibly busy, we have | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
a huge challenge with air`quality breaching EU levels. We have | :48:34. | :48:35. | |
gridlock in congestion in the majority of people do not use the | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
car to come into the city. Why use all that money to encourage people | :48:41. | :48:50. | |
to come in by car? Why don't you spend that money to encourage people | :48:51. | :48:57. | |
to come in using other modes of transport? We do. We have travel in | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
`` advisers going out encouraging people to go into the city by bus. | :49:04. | :49:10. | |
We are the least car dependent city in the UK. We have seen a greater | :49:11. | :49:18. | |
use of bus service than anywhere in the UK. It seems as if you're | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
backtracking on your principles. You are worried that we carried out a | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
survey for the BBC South East earlier this year that showed that | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
transport is losing you a lot of votes in the city, you are running | :49:31. | :49:44. | |
scared. In 1999, a group was set up accusing the administration of being | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
anti`car then. This is nothing new. We can make it about the Green | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
administration, the city is very successful, there are more | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
businesses and students than ever before, but there is not enough | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
space. The only way we can transport people around effectively is to | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
encourage them to use the bus and other modes of transport. Nancy, he | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
levelled accusations they are on your party. Free parking is only | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
going to cause more congestion. It will not help the small businesses | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
that need at full top small businesses have said people are not | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
coming into their shops and they are struggling. This is an attempt to | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
say we are trying to help local businesses. We need to say we need | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
to try it first and see what works. If you have spent any time in | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
Brighton and Hove, you cannot get a parking space for love nor money. | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
The queues will be full? Personally, I do not drive and I do not have a | :50:44. | :50:50. | |
car. I would like to see us go one step further and offer free bus | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
travel on those two days. One of those is small business that day and | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
give local businesses a big boost on the run`up to Christmas. What would | :50:59. | :51:06. | |
be good now, would be free bus travel into the city. Richard, you | :51:07. | :51:14. | |
will argue that free parking will boost the local economy. Is it | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
another example of cutting the green crap as coming from number ten this | :51:20. | :51:26. | |
week but Mark I think we have all got to stand back and say, | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
customers, shoppers have got choices. They can shop in | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
out`of`town shopping centres, they can shop online in the single into | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
town. They need to do everything we can to make it a shopper friendly | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
experience going into town. Being `` is it being motorist friendly | :51:46. | :51:53. | |
appealing to voters? It is a fact of life, people drive cars. People from | :51:54. | :52:02. | |
out of town areas need to arrive by car. If you make it an unfriendly | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
experience because it was aggressive parking tactics, it was expensive or | :52:08. | :52:14. | |
the town centre environment was unpleasant, they will take their | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
business elsewhere. Seven Oaks is a different area to Brighton and | :52:19. | :52:25. | |
Hove. In big cities where you have congestion, it will make things | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
worse. We are talking about one or two days here to boost Christmas | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
sales. Instead of the money going to the Council for car parking, it will | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
be channelled towards the small businesses. We have a fantastic and | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
diverse range of shops in all kinds of places to go in Brighton, it is | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
very different, it is not like the usual homogenous high`street in any | :52:49. | :52:58. | |
other city. One size does not fit all? We will leave it all. | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
This part of the world is a very nice part of the world if you can | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
afford it, the conclusion of a report that found survivors and `` | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
surprising levels of deprivation. A person living on one road could be | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
expected to live ten years longer than someone living just a | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
straightaway. In one area of Hastings, 67% of children are in | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
poverty. The national average is 20%. Let's get some more from Cefn | :53:28. | :53:34. | |
Richmond who compiled the research. How much of this research was | :53:35. | :53:41. | |
surprising to you? Sussex is a great place to live if you can afford it, | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
what many people will find surprising is that some of those | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
areas along the coastal strips of Kent and Sussex, is there | :53:50. | :53:57. | |
deprivation is at inner`city levels. The second surprise was if you look | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
at some of the rural areas, there are real pockets of deprivation near | :54:01. | :54:07. | |
that people would not expect. Hackworth and right, there are | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
pockets of deprivation there. `` Hett worth and ride. How much is | :54:14. | :54:22. | |
that masking the problem of deprivation? The South East is an | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
expensive place to live. If you have a lower in come, you have doubled as | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
advantage. Part of the research, we found a family with two children, it | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
would cost you ?74 more to live in a hamlet than a time. If you have that | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
money, that is fine. If you are on a low income, it is a struggle. What | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
should be done? How much should come from the bottom`up, from the, and | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
how much from the government? There is a lot the government should do | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
and is doing. There is a lot of politicians should be debating. Our | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
foundation is about, what can we do? When you look at those areas of | :55:07. | :55:09. | |
disadvantage, there are people working hard at the grassroots to | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
make a difference. That is why we are intervening, we are supporting | :55:15. | :55:23. | |
people within a community to do `` address the problems in their | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
community. How much more could be done by the government to solve | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
these terrible problems? It is a problem in the government has two | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
make the funding available attached to it. But at the end and `` of the | :55:36. | :55:43. | |
day it is the local community that knows about the issues. I was | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
impressed with the jobs the voluntary sector is doing, it is the | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
community that has identified the problems and pressure local | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
authority. I do not know if you have spoken to the local council in Kent | :55:58. | :56:03. | |
recently, but they are making cuts to the most vulnerable in society. | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
We need to make sure that those in greatest need still continue to | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
receive their first year. That is where I see that the efforts of the | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
voluntary sector in the community, are doing such a good job. `` | :56:19. | :56:27. | |
Bayerische. Those statistics are shocking. `` fair share. Your party | :56:28. | :56:41. | |
said you would get rid of child poverty by 2020. The Fort `` I think | :56:42. | :56:49. | |
the poverty figures have gone up. People in poverty, there is one | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
common factor, they do not have any money, and that is down to things | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
like low wages, jobs that are not available, the government has to | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
take some action. We cannot say it is down to community groups. We need | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
to bring back the centres that brought families into a centre where | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
they could get advice on healthy eating, childcare, get jobs in the | :57:11. | :57:18. | |
first place. Those people who desperately need help are | :57:19. | :57:20. | |
necessarily where you think they are. How much is that problem the | :57:21. | :57:27. | |
invisibility of deprivation in some of our communities? I think it is a | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
problem in that it allows some people to ignore it. When you start | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
looking at statistics, but I'm those are people. We need to start talking | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
to people in communities and find out what issues are. Some of them we | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
need better housing, we need sure start centres. We are used to seeing | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
pockets of poverty around the seaside towns of the South East. | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
What is new and different is that we are finding this popping up in the | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
rural areas. That is what I find shop. Many often `` in many cases | :58:00. | :58:08. | |
people are trapped in these situations. They are trapped in that | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
poverty and cannot move. That is what we have to identify and | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
identify with the help is most needed. We are going to have to | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
leave it there. Time for a round`up of the other | :58:23. | :58:24. | |
political events. Hundreds of islanders who settled in | :58:25. | :58:40. | |
Crawley may be a step closer to returning home after the government | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
announced a feasibility study looking at the resettlement. They | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
have been fighting a battle since the 1960s. A local MP said... It | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
seems we are a little bit closer to justice today. Members quit in a row | :58:56. | :59:02. | |
in a report that said there was a dysfunctional organisation. Council | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
leaders said it was full of half`truths and innuendo. Gurkha | :59:08. | :59:13. | |
veterans celebrated after the government set up an enquiry looking | :59:14. | :59:20. | |
into their pension rights. It is going to be looked into now. It is a | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
celebratory day. And manger language. Headmaster wrote to | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
parents asking them not to swear in front of their children will stop he | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
said that parents `` children could not be blamed for turning the air | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
blue as they were only copying their parents. | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
Have you ever sworn in front of your children, Richard? I think it was my | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
children talk me more swear words. Is it times to be modest about | :59:48. | :59:52. | |
swearing? I think we do have to be careful what we see in front of | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
children. It is good to watch your language. It is not nice to see | :59:58. | :00:03. | |
little children swearing. We do not have time for the anecdote of my | :00:04. | :00:06. | |
four`year`old child and a certain four letter word. We will be back | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
next week with more political debate those people who want to cycle. We | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
will be returning to this one. Thank you. | :00:16. | :00:23. | |
A little bit of history was made at Prime Minister's Questions this | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
week. A teensy tiny bit. It wasn't David Cameron accusing one MP of | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
taking "mind-altering substances" - they're always accusing each other | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
of doing that. No, it was the first time a Prime Minister used a live | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
tweet sent from someone watching the session as ammunition at the | :00:39. | :00:48. | |
dispatch box. Let's have a look We have had some interesting | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
interventions from front edges past and present. I hope I can break | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
records by explaining that a tweet has just come in from Tony McNulty, | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
the former Labour security minister, saying that the public are | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
desperate for a PM in waiting who speaks for them, not a Leader of the | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
Opposition in dodging in partisan Westminster Village knock about So | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
I would stay up with the tweets if you want to get on the right side of | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
this one! We are working on how the Prime Minister managed to get that | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
wheat in the first place. What did you think when you saw it being read | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
out? I was certainly watching the Daily Politics. I almost fell off my | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
chair! It was quite astonishing He didn't answer the question - he | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
didn't do that the whole time. But I stand by what the tweets said. I | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
have tweeted for a long time on PMQs. Normally I am praising Ed | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
Miliband to the hilt, but no one announces that in Parliament! | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
Because the Prime Minister picked up on what you said, it unleashed some | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
attacks on you from the Labour side. It did, minor attacks from some very | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
junior people. Most people were supportive of what I said. They took | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
issue with the notion of not doing it until 12:30pm, when it wasn't | :02:09. | :02:16. | |
available for the other side to use. Instant history, and instantly | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
forgettable, I would say. Do you think you have started a bit of a | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
trend? I hope not, because the dumbing down of PMQs is already on | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
its way. Most people tweet like mad through PMQs! Is a measure of how | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
post-modern we have become, we have journalists tweeting about someone | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
talking about a tweet. That is the level of British politics. I am | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
horrified by this development. The whole of modern life has become | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
about observing people -- people observing themselves doing things. | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
Do we know what happened? Somebody is monitoring the tweets on behalf | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
of the Prime Minister or the Tory party. They see Tony's tweet. They | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
then print it out and give it to him? There was a suggestion that | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
Michael Goves had spotted it, but Craig Oliver from the BBC had this | :03:13. | :03:22. | |
great sort of... Craig Oliver was holding up his iPad to take pictures | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
of the Prime Minister, which he then tweeted, from the Prime Minister. | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
People will now be tweeting in the hope that they will be quoted by the | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
Prime Minister, or the Leader of the Opposition. I wasn't doing that I'm | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
just talking about the monster you have unleashed! I hope it dies a | :03:41. | :03:48. | |
miserable death. I think Tony is a good analysis -- a good analyst of | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
PMQs on Twitter. Moving onto the Co-op. You were a Co-op-backed MP, | :03:54. | :04:05. | |
white you? I was a Co-op party member. There are two issues here | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
about the Co-op and the Labour Party. All the new music suggests | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
that the Co-op will now have to start pulling back from lending or | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
donating to the Labour Party, which, at a time when Mr Miliband is going | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
through changes that are going to cut of the union funds, it seems | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
quite dangerous. There are three things going on. There's the | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
relationship that the party has politically with the Co-op party, | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
there is the commercial relationship you referred to, and then there is | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
this enquiry into the comings and goings of Flowers and everybody | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
else. The Tories, at their peril, will mix the three up. There's a lot | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
of things going on with a bang. Labour has some issues around | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
funding generally, and they are potentially exacerbated by the Co-op | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
issue. The Labour Party gets soft loans from the Co-op bank, and it | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
gets donations. ?800,000 last year. Ed Balls got about ?50,000 for his | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
private office. You get the feeling, given the state of the Co-operative | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
Bank now, that that money could dry up. We will see. There's lots of | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
speculation in the papers today At the core, the relationship between | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
the Co-op party and the Labour Party is a proud one, and a legitimate | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
one. I don't think others always understand that. Here is an even | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
bigger issue. Is it not possible that the Co-op bank will cease to | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
exist in any meaningful way as a Co-op bank? Is the bane out means it | :05:49. | :05:58. | |
is 70% owned -- the bail out means that it is 70% owned, or 35% going | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
to a hedge fund, I think I read Yes, there is a move from the | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
mutualism of the Co-op. But don t confuse the Co-op bank with the | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
Co-op Group. Others have done that. I haven't. Here's the rub. The soft | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
loans that Labour gets. They got ?1.2 million from this. And 2.4 | :06:25. | :06:37. | |
million. They are secured against future union membership fees of the | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
party. What is Mr Miliband doing? He is trying to end that? You have this | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
very difficult confluence of events, which is, could these wonderful soft | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
loans that Labour has had from the Co-op, could they be going? And | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
these union reforms, where Ed Miliband is trying to create a link | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
between individuals and donations to the Labour Party... Clearly, there | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
could be real financial difficulties here. The government needs to be | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
careful, because George Osborne launched one of his classic | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
blunderbuss operations this week, which is that the Labour Party is to | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
blame for Paul Flowers' private life. No, it's not. And that all the | :07:19. | :07:27. | |
problems, essentially... Look at what George Osborne was doing in | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
Europe. He was trying to change the capital requirement rules that would | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
make it easier for the Co-op to take over Lloyd's. If there is to be a | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
big investigation, George Osborne needs to be careful of what he | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
wishes for. This is another example of the Westminster consensus. All of | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
the Westminster parties were in favour of the Britannia takeover. | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
This is how the Co-op ended up with all this toxic rubbish on its | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
balance sheet. All the major parties were in favour of going to get the | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
Lloyds branches. The Tories tried to outdo Labour in being more | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
pro-Co-op. There was nobody in Westminster saying, hold on, this | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
doesn't work. It is like the financial bubble all over again | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
Everyone was in favour of that at the time. I think there is no | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
evidence so far that the storm is cutting through to the average | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
voter. If I were Ed Miliband, I would let it die a natural death. I | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
would not write to an editorial column for a national newspaper on a | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
Sunday. That keeps the issue alive, and it makes him look oversensitive | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
and much better at dishing it out than taking it. I agree about that. | :08:42. | :08:49. | |
The Labour press team tweeted this week saying that it was a new low | :08:50. | :08:57. | |
for the times. And this was re-tweeted by Ed Miliband. It isn't | :08:58. | :09:05. | |
a great press attitude. It is very Moni. Bill Clinton went out there | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
and fought and made the case. So did Tony Blair. If you just say, they | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
are being horrible to us, it looks pathetic. And it will cut through on | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
Osborne and the financial dimensional is, not political. I | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
shall tweet that later! While we have been talking, Mr Miliband has | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
been on Desert Island Discs. He might still be on it. Let's have a | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
listen to what he had to say. # Take on me, take me on. | :09:40. | :09:57. | |
# And threw it all, she offers me protection. | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
# A lot of love and affection. # Whether I'm right or wrong #. | :10:02. | :10:24. | |
# Je Ne Regrette Rien. #. Obviously, that was the music that | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
Ed Miliband chose. Who thought - you would have thought he would | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
choose Norman Lamont's theme tune! He chose Jerusalem... He has no | :10:35. | :10:46. | |
classical background at all. He had no Beethoven, no Elgar. David | :10:47. | :10:56. | |
Cameron had Mendelssohn. And Ernie, the fastest Notman in the West. -- | :10:57. | :11:07. | |
fastest milkman. Tony Blair chose the theme tune to a movie. Tony | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
Blair's list was chosen by young staffers in his office. It | :11:14. | :11:22. | |
absolutely was. Tony Blair's list was chosen by staff. The Ed Miliband | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
this was clearly chosen by himself, because who would allow politician | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
to go out there and say that they like Aha. I am the same age as Ed | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
Miliband, and of course he likes Aha. That was the tumour was played | :11:41. | :11:52. | |
in the 80s. Sweet Caroline. It is Angels by Robbie Williams. I was | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
14-year-old girl when that came out. I thought Angels was the staple of | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
hen nights and chucking out time in pubs. The really good thing about | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
his list is that the Smiths to not appear. The Smiths were all over | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
David Cameron's list. The absolutely miserable music of Morris he was not | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
there. What was his luxury? And Indian takeaway! Again, chosen for | :12:23. | :12:30. | |
political reasons. I would agree with the panel about Aha, but I | :12:31. | :12:39. | |
would expect -- I would respect his right to choose. Have you been on | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
Desert Island Discs? I have. It took me three weeks to choose the music. | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
It was the most difficult decision in my life. What was the most | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
embarrassing thing you chose? I didn't choose anything embarrassing. | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
I chose Beethoven, Elgar, and some proper modern jazz. Anything from | :12:59. | :13:12. | |
the modern era? Pet Shop Boys. That's all for today. The Daily | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
Politics will be on BBC Two at lunchtime every day next week, and | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
we'll be back here on BBC One at 11am next week. My luxury, by the | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
way, was a wind-up radio! Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday | :13:23. | :13:23. | |
Politics. | :13:24. | :13:31. |