Browse content similar to 01/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. George Osborne | :00:34. | :00:43. | |
announces a ?50 cut to annual household energy bills. We'll talk | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
to Lib Dem president Tim Farron ahead of the Chancellor's mini | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
budget this week. Net immigration is up for the first | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
time in two years. Labour and the Tories say they want to bring it | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
down, but how? Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper joins us for the | :01:00. | :01:09. | |
Sunday Interview. The harder you shake the pack, the easier it will | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
be for some cornflakes to get to the top. The Mayor of London says | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
inequality and greed are essential to spur economic activity. The | :01:17. | :01:17. | |
speech won him plenty And in the south`east, one in my age | :01:18. | :01:28. | |
are more likely to die as result of domestic islands than any other | :01:29. | :01:29. | |
cause so capital is now a crisis. Another | :01:30. | :01:31. | |
week, another strategy? Can this one deliver? | :01:32. | :01:43. | |
And with me throughout today's programme, well, we've shaken the | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
packet and look who's risen to the top. Or did we open it at the | :01:47. | :01:53. | |
bottom? Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Sam Coates. All three will be | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
tweeting throughout the programme using the hashtag #bbcsp. So, after | :01:57. | :02:05. | |
weeks in which Ed Miliband's promise to freeze energy prices has set the | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
Westminster agenda, the Coalition Government is finally coming up with | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
its answer. This morning the Chancellor George Osborne explained | :02:12. | :02:13. | |
how he plans to cut household energy bills by an average of fifty quid. | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
What we're going to do is roll back the levees that are placed by | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
government on people's electricity bills. This will mean that for the | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
average bill payer, they will have ?50 of those electricity and gas | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
bills. That will help families. We are doing it in the way that | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
government can do it. We are controlling the cost that families | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
incurred because of government policies. We are doing it in a way | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
that will not damage the environment or reduce our commitment to dealing | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
with climate change. We will not produce commit men to helping | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
low-income families with the cost of living. Janan, we are finally seeing | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
the coalition begin to play its hand in response to the Ed Miliband | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
freeze? They have been trying to respond for almost ten weeks and | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
older responses have been quite fiddly. We are going to take a bit | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
of tax year, put it onto general taxation, have a conversation with | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
the energy companies, engineered a rebate of some kind, this is not | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
very vivid. The advantage of the idea that they have announced | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
overnight is that it is clear and it has a nice round figure attached to | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
it, ?50. The chief of staff of President Obama, he said, if you are | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
explaining, you're losing. The genius of this idea is that it does | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
not require explanation. He would not drawn this morning on what | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
agreement he had with the energy companies, and whether this would | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
fall through to the bottom of the bill, but the way he spoke, saying, | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
I am not going to pre-empt what the energy companies say, that suggests | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
he has something up his sleeve. Yes, I thought so. The energy companies | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
have made this so badly for so long. It would be awful if he announced | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
this and the energy companies said, we are going to keep this money for | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
ourselves. I do not think he is that stupid. The energy companies have an | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
incentive to go along with this don't they? My worry is that I am | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
not sure how much it will be within the opinion polls. I think people | :04:28. | :04:34. | |
might expect this now, it is not a new thing, it is not an exciting | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
thing. Say in the markets, they may have priced the ten already. If by | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
Thursday of this week, he is able to say, I have a ?50 cut coming to your | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
bill. The energy companies have guaranteed that this will fall | :04:52. | :04:53. | |
through onto your energy bill, and they have indicated to me that they | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
themselves will not put up energy prices through 2014, has he shot the | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
Ed Miliband Fox? I think he has a couple of challenges. It is still | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
very hard. This is an answer for the next 12 months but did is no chance | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
announced that Labour will stop saying they are going to freeze | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
prices in the next Parliament. He will say, I have not just frozen | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
them, I have done that as well and I have cut them. When people look at | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
their energy bills, they are going up by more than ?50. This is a | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
reduction in the amount that they are going up overall. Year on 0 | :05:33. | :05:39. | |
will be for George Osborne. He will have to come up with something this | :05:40. | :05:47. | |
time next year. The detail in the Sunday papers reveals that George | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
Osborne is trying to get the energy companies to put on bills that 50 | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
has been knocked off your bill because of a reduction by the | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
government. He is trying to get the energy companies to do his political | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
bidding for him. It will be interesting to see if they go along | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
with that, because then we will know how cross the arm with Ed Miliband. | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
Let's get another perspective. Joining me now from Kendal in the | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
Lake District is the president of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron. | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Good morning. Let me ask you this, the | :06:23. | :06:30. | |
coalition is rowing back on green taxes, I do comfortable with that or | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
is it something else you will rebel against? I am very comfortable with | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
the fact we are protecting for the money is going. I am open to where | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
the money comes from. The notion that we should stop insulating the | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
homes of elderly people or stop investing in British manufacturing | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
in terms of green industry, that is something that I resolutely oppose, | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
but I am pleased that the funding will be made available for all that. | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
You cannot ignore the fact that for a whole range of reasons, mostly | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
down to the actions of the energy companies, you have prices that are | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
shooting up and affecting lots of people, making life hard. You cannot | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
ignore that. If we fund the installation of homes for older | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
people and others, if we protect British manufacturing jobs, and | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
raise the money through general taxation, I am comfortable with | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
that. It is not clear that is going to happen. It looks like the | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
eco-scheme, whereby the energy companies pay for the installation | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
of those on below-average incomes, they will spin that out over four | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
years, not two years, and one estimate is that that will cost | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
10,000 jobs. You're always boasting about your commitment to green jobs, | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
how do square that? I do not believe that. The roll-out will be longer. | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
The number of houses reached will be greater and that is a good thing. My | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
take is that it will not affect the number of jobs. People talk about | :08:07. | :08:14. | |
green levies. There has been disparaging language about that sort | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
of thing. There are 2 million people in this country in the lowest income | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
families and they get ?230 off their energy bills because of what isn't | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
-- because of what is disparaging the refer to as green stuff, shall | :08:33. | :08:39. | |
we call it. There will be more properties covered. We both know | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
that your party is being pushed into this by the Tories. You would not be | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
doing this off your own bad. You are in coalition with people who have | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
jettisoned their green Prudential is? -- credentials. You have made my | :08:55. | :09:07. | |
point quite well. David Cameron s panicked response to this over the | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
last few months was to ditch all the green stuff. It has been a job to | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
make sure that we hold him to his pledges and the green cord of this | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
government. That is why we are not scrapping the investment, we are | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
making sure it is funded from general taxation. I am talking to | :09:25. | :09:32. | |
you from Kendal. Lots of people struggle to pay their energy bills. | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
But all these things pale into insignificance compared to the | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
threat of climate change and we must hold the Prime Minister to account | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
on this issue. Argue reconciled to the idea that as long as you're in | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
coalition with the Tories you will never get a mansion tax? I am not | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
reconciled to it. We are trying to give off other tax cut to the lowest | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
income people. What about the mansion tax? That would be | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
potentially paid for by another view source of finance. That would be | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
that the wealthy... We know that is what you want, but you're not going | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
to get that? We will keep fighting for it. It is extremely important. | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
We can show where we will get the money from. I know that is the | :10:22. | :10:31. | |
adamant. That is not what I asked you. Ed Balls and Labour run in | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
favour of a mansion tax, have you talked to them about it? The honest | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
answer is I have not. It is interesting that they have come | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
round to supporting our policy having rejected it in power. So if | :10:46. | :10:54. | |
Labour was the largest party in parliament but not in power, you | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
would have no problem agreeing with a mansion tax as part of the deal? | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
If the arithmetic falls in that way and that is the will of the British | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
people, fear taxes on those who are wealthiest, stuff that is fear, | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
which includes wealth taxes, in order to fund more reductions for | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
those people on lowest incomes, that is the sort of thing that we might | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
reach agreement on. You voted with Labour on the spare room subsidy. | :11:24. | :11:31. | |
Again, that would be job done in any future coalition talks with Labour, | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
correct? I take the view that the spare room subsidy, whilst entirely | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
fail in principle, in practice it has caused immense hardship. I want | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
to see that changed. There are many people in government to share my | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
view on that. So does Labour. The problem was largely caused Labour | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
because they oversaw an increase in housing costs both 3.5 times while | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
they were in power. The government was forced into a position to tidy | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
up an appalling mess that Labour left. You voted with Labour against | :12:08. | :12:19. | |
it, and also, you want... No, I voted with the party conference | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
Let's not dance on the head of the ten. Maybe they voted with me. - on | :12:26. | :12:36. | |
the head of a pin. You are also in favour of a 50% top rate of income | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
tax, so you and Labour are that one there as well? No, I take the view | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
that the top rate of income tax is a fluid thing. All taxation levels are | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
temporary. Nick Clegg said that when the 50p rate came down to 45, that | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
was a rather foolish price tag George Osborne asked for in return | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
for as increasing the threshold and letting several million people out | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
of paying income tax at the bottom. So you agree with Labour? In favour | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
of rising the tax to 50p. I take the view that we should keep our minds | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
open on that. It is not the income tax level that bothers me, it is | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
whether the wealthy pay their fresh air. If that can be done through | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
other taxes, then that is something that I am happy with. -- their fair | :13:31. | :13:41. | |
share. Given your position on the top rate of tax, on the spare room | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
subsidy, how does the prospect of another five years of coalition with | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
the Tories strike you? The answer is, you react with whatever you have | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
about you to what the electorate hand you. Whatever happens after the | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
next election, you have got to respect the will of the people. Yes, | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
but how do you feel about it? We know about this, I am asking for | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
your feeling. Does your heart left or does your heart fall at the | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
prospect of another five years with the Tories? My heart would always | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
follow the prospect of anything other than a majority of Liberal | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
Democrat government. Your heart must be permanently in your shoes then. | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
Something like that, but when all is said and done, we accept the will of | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
the electorate. When you stand for election, you have got to put up | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
with what the electorate say. I have not found coalition as difficult as | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
you might suggest. It is about people who have to disagree and | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
agree to differ. You work with people in your daily life that you | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
disagree with. It is what grown ups do. A lot of people in your party | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
think that your positioning yourself to be the left-wing candidate in a | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
post-Nick Clegg leadership contest. They think it is blatant | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
manoeuvring. One senior figure says, this is about you. Which bit of the | :15:15. | :15:27. | |
sanctimonious, treacherous little man is there not to like? What can I | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
see in response to that. My job is to promote the Liberal Democrats. I | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
have to do my best to consider what I'd defend to be right. By and | :15:37. | :15:47. | |
large, my position as an MP in the Lake District, but also as the | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
president of the party, is to reflect the will of people outside | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
the Westminster village. That is the important thing to do. Thank you for | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
joining us. David Cameron has said he wants to get it down to the tens | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
of thousands, Ed Miliband has admitted New Labour "got it wrong", | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
and Nick Clegg wants to be "zero-tolerant towards abuse". Yes, | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
immigration is back on the political agenda, with figures released | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
earlier this week showing that net migration is on the rise for the | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
first time in two years. And that's not the only reason politicians are | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
talking about it again. The issue of immigration has come | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
into sharp focus because of concerns about the number of remaining ins | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
and Bulgarians that can come to the UK next year. EU citizenship grants | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
the right to free movement within the EU. But when Bulgaria and | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
Romania joined in 2007, the government took up its right to | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
apply temporary restrictions on movement. They must be lifted | :16:47. | :16:55. | |
apply temporary restrictions on end of this year. According to the | :16:56. | :16:56. | |
2011 census, about one eyed 1 million of the population in England | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
and Wales is made up of people from countries who joined the EU in 004. | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
The government has played down expectations that the skill of | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
migration could be repeated. This week David Cameron announced new | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
restrictions on the ability of EU migrants to claim benefits. That was | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
two, send a message. That prompted criticism is that the UK risks being | :17:20. | :17:30. | |
seen as a nasty country. Yvette Cooper joins me now for the Sunday | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
interview. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, Yvette Cooper. You | :17:38. | :17:39. | |
criticised the coalition for not acting sooner on immigration from | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
Romania and Bulgaria but the timetable for the unrestricted | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
arrival in January was agreed under Labour many years ago, and given the | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
battle that you had with the Polish and the Hungarians, what | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
preparations did you make in power? We think that we should learn from | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
some of the things that happened with migration. It would have been | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
better to have transitional controls in place and look at the impact of | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
what happened. But what preparations did you make in power? We set out a | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
series of measures that the Government still had time to bring | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
in. It is important that this should be a calm and measured debate. There | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
was time to bring in measures around benefit restrictions, for example, | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
and looking at the impact on the labour market, to make sure you do | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
not have exploitation of cheap migrant Labour which is bad for | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
everyone. I know that but I have asked you before and I am asking | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
again, what did you do? We got things wrong in Government. I | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
understand that I am not arguing. You are criticising them not | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
preparing, a legitimate criticism, but what did you do in power? Well, | :18:53. | :18:59. | |
I did think we did enough. Did you do anything? We signed the agency | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
workers directive but too slowly. We needed measures like that. We did | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
support things like the social chapter and the minimum wage, but I | :19:11. | :19:13. | |
have said before that we did not do enough and that is why we | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
recommended the measures in March. I understand that is what you did in | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
opposition and I take that. I put the general point to you that given | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
your failure to introduce controls on the countries that joined in | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
2004, alone among the major EU economies we did that, should we not | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
keep an embarrassed silence on these matters? You have no credibility. I | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
think you have got to talk about immigration. One of the things we | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
did not do in Government was discussed immigration and the | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
concerns people have and the long-term benefits that we know have | :19:49. | :19:56. | |
come from people who have come to Britain over many generations | :19:57. | :19:57. | |
contributing to Britain and having a big impact. I think we recognise | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
that there are things that we did wrong, but it would be irresponsible | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
for us not to join the debate and suggest sensible, practical measures | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
that you can introduce now to address the concerns that people | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
have, but also make sure that the system is fair and managed. | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
Immigration is important to Britain but it does have to be controlled | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
and managed in the right way. Let's remind ourselves of your record on | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
immigration. The chart you did not consult when in power. This is total | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
net migration per year under Labour. 2.2 million of net rise in | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
migration, more than the population of Birmingham, you proud of that? -- | :20:35. | :20:45. | |
twice the population. Are you proud of that or apologising for it? We | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
set the pace of immigration was too fat and the level was too high and | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
it is right to bring migration down. So you think that was wrong? | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
Overruled have been huge benefits from people that have come to | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
Britain and built our biggest businesses. -- overall. They have | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
become Olympic medal winners. But because the pace was too fast, that | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
has had an impact. That was because of the lack of transitional controls | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
from Eastern Europe and it is why we should learn from that and have | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
sensible measures in place now, as part of what has got to be a calm | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
debate. These are net migration figures. They don't often show the | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
full figure. These are the immigration figures coming in. What | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
that chart shows is that in terms of the gross number coming into this | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
country, from the year 2000, it was half a million a year under Labour. | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
Rising to 600,000 by the time you were out of power. A lot of people | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
coming into these crowded islands, particularly since most of them come | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
to London and the South East. Was that intentional? Was that out of | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
control? Is that what you are now apologising for? What we said was | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
that the Government got the figures wrong on the migration from Eastern | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
Europe. If you remember particularly there was the issue of what happened | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
with not having transitional controls in place. The Government | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
didn't expect the number of people coming to the country to be the way | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
it was. And so obviously mistakes were made. We have recognised that. | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
We have also got to recognise that this is something that has happened | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
in countries all over the world We travel and trade far more than ever. | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
We have an increasingly globalised economy. Other European countries | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
have been affected in the same way, and America, and other developing | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
countries affected in the same way by the scale of migration. I am | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
trying to work out whether the numbers were intentional or if you | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
lost control. The key thing that we have said many times and I have | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
already said it to you many times, Andrew, that we should have a | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
transitional controls in place on Eastern Europe. I think that would | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
have had an impact on them level of migration. We also should have | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
brought in the points -based system earlier. We did bring that in | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
towards the end and it did restrict the level of low skilled migration | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
because there are different kinds of migration. University students | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
coming to Britain brings in billions of pounds of investment. On the | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
other hand, low skilled migration can have a serious impact on the | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
jobs market, pay levels and so on at the low skilled end of the labour | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
market. We have to distinguish between different kinds of | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
migration. You keep trying to excuse the figures by talking about the | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
lack of transitional controls. Can we skip the chart I was going to go | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
to? The next one. Under Labour, this is the source of where migrants came | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
from. The main source was not the accession countries or the remainder | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
of Europe. Overwhelmingly they were from the African Commonwealth, and | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
the Indian subcontinent. Overwhelmingly, these numbers are | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
nothing to do with transitional controls. You can control that | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
immigration entirely because they are not part of the EU. Was that a | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
mistake? First of all, the big increase was in the accession | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
groups. Not according to the chart. In terms of the increase, the | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
changes that happened. Secondly in answer to the question that you just | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
asked me, we should also have introduced the points -based system | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
at an earlier stage. Thirdly there has been a big increase in the | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
number of university students coming to Britain and they have brought | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
billions of pounds of investment. At the moment the Government is not | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
distinguishing, it is just using the figure of net migration. And that is | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
starting to go up again, as you said in the introduction, but the problem | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
is that it treats all kinds of migration is aimed. It does not | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
address illegal immigration, which is a problem, but it treats | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
university graduates coming to Britain in the same way as low | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
skilled workers. If Labour get back into power, is it your ambition to | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
bring down immigration? We have already said it is too high and we | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
would support measures to bring it down. You would bring it down? There | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
is something called student visas, which is not included in the | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
figures, and it does not include university graduates, and it is a | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
figure that has increased substantially in recent years. They | :25:31. | :25:40. | |
come for short-term study but they do not even have to prove that they | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
come for a college course. They do not even have to have a place to | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
come. Those visas should be restricted to prevent abuse of the | :25:47. | :25:49. | |
system and that is in line with a recommendation from the Inspectorate | :25:50. | :25:51. | |
and that is the kind of practical thing that we could do. Can you give | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
us a ballpark figure of how much immigration would fall? You have | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
seen the mess that Theresa May has got into with her figures. She made | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
a target that it is clear to me that she will not meet. I think that is | :26:05. | :26:27. | |
right. She will not meet it. Can you give as a ballpark figure by which | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
we can judge you? If she had been more sensible and taken more time to | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
listen to experts and decide what measures should be targeted, then | :26:34. | :26:35. | |
she would not be in this mess. You cannot give me a figure? She has | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
chosen net migration. She has set a target, without ifs and buts. I | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
think it is important not to have a massive gap between the rhetoric and | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
reality. Not to make promises on numbers which are not responsible. | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
OK, you won't give me a figure. Fine. Moving on to crime. 10,00 | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
front line police jobs have gone since 2010 but crime continues to | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
fall. 7% down last year alone. When you told the Labour conference that | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
you do not cut crime by cutting the police, you were wrong. I think the | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
Government is being very complacent about what is happening to crime. | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
Crime patterns are changing. There has been an exponential increase, | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
and that is in the words of the police, in online crime. We have | :27:14. | :27:22. | |
also seen, for example, domestic violence going up, but prosecutions | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
dropping dramatically. There is a serious impact as a result of not | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
having 10,000 police in place. You have talked about the exponential | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
increase in online and economic crime. If those are the big growth | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
areas, why have bobbies on the beat? That would make no difference. It is | :27:40. | :27:46. | |
about an approach to policing that has been incredibly successful over | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
many years, which Labour introduced, which is neighbourhood policing in | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
the community is working hard with communities to prevent crime. People | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
like to see bobbies on the beat but have you got any evidence that it | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
leads to a reduction in crime? Interestingly, the Lords Stevens | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
commission that we set up, they have reported this week and it has been | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
the equivalent of a Royal commission, looking at the number of | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
people involved in it. Their strong recommendation was that this is | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
about preventing crime but also respectful law and order, working | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
with communities, and so they strongly took the view with all of | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
their expertise and the 30 different universities that they have involved | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
with it, that on the basis of all that analysis, the right thing was | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
to keep bobbies on the beat and not push them cars. Instinctively you | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
would think it was true. More visible policing, less crime. But in | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
all the criminology work, I cannot find the evidence. There is | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
competing work about why there has been a 20 year drop in overall crime | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
and everybody has different opinions on why that has happened. The point | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
about neighbourhood policing is that it is broader than crime-fighting. | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
It is about prevention and community safety. Improving the well-being of | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
communities as well. Will you keep the elected Police Commissioners? | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
Big sigh! What the report said was that the system is flawed. We raised | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
concern about this at the beginning. You will remember at the elections, | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
Theresa May's flagship policy, at the elections they cost ?100 million | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
and there was 15% turnout. You have to have a system of accountability | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
at the police. Three options were presented, all of which are forms. | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
So you have to have reform. It is not whether to have reformed, it is | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
which of those options is the best way to do it. The commission set out | :29:43. | :29:53. | |
a series of options, and I thought that the preferable approach would | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
be collaboration and voluntary mergers. We know they won't | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
volunteer. There have been some collaboration is taking place. I | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
think the issues with police and crime commissioners have fragmented | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
things and made it harder to get collaboration between police | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
forces. Everybody is asking this question, just before you go. What | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
is it like living with a nightmare? Who does all the cooking, so I can't | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
complain! Says Miliband people are wrong, he is a dream cook? He is! | :30:29. | :30:37. | |
In a speech this week, Boris Johnson praised greed and envy as essential | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
for economic progress, and that has got tongues wagging. What is the | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
Mayor of London up to? What is his game plan? Does he even have a game | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
plan and does he know if he has one? Flash photography coming up. Boris. | :30:52. | :30:59. | |
In many ways I can leave it there. You'd know who I meant. And if you | :31:00. | :31:02. | |
didn't, the unruly mop of blonde hair would tell you, the language. | :31:03. | :31:14. | |
Ping-pong was invented on the dining tables of England. Somehow pulling | :31:15. | :31:31. | |
off the ridiculous to the sublime. It is going to go zoink off the | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
scale! But often having to speed away from the whiff-whaff of | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
scandal. Boris, are you going to save your manage? | :31:41. | :31:42. | |
There's always been a question about him and his as role as mayor and | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
another prized position, as hinted to the Tory faithful this year at | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
conference, discussing former French Prime Minister Alan Juppe. -- Alain | :31:49. | :31:59. | |
Juppe. He told me he was going to be the mayor of Bordeaux. I think he | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
may have been mayor well he was Prime Minister, it is the kind of | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
thing they do in funds -- AvD in France. It is a good idea, if you | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
ask me. But is it a joke? He is much more ambitious. Boris wants to be | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
Prime Minister more than anything else. Perhaps more than he wants to | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
be made of London. The ball came loose from the back of the scrum. Of | :32:29. | :32:35. | |
course it would give great thing to have a crack at, but it is not going | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
to happen. He might be right. First, the Conservatives have a leader | :32:43. | :32:44. | |
another Old Etonian, Oxford, Bullingdon chap and he has the job | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
Boris might like a crack at. What do you do with a problem like Boris? It | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
is one of the great paradoxes of Tory politics that for Boris Johnson | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
to succeed, David Cameron must feel. Boris needs David Cameron to lose so | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
that he can stand a chance of becoming loser. -- becoming leader. | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
And disloyalty is punished by Conservatives. Boris knows the man | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
who brought down Margaret Thatcher. Michael Heseltine, who Boris | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
replaced as MP for Henley, never got her job. In 1986, she took on the | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
member for Henley, always a risky venture. And why might he make such | :33:21. | :33:31. | |
a jibe, because he's won two more elections than the PM. Conservatives | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
like a winner. Boris, against Robert expectations, has won the Mayor of | :33:37. | :33:50. | |
London job twice. -- public. He might've built a following with the | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
grassroots but he's on shakier ground with many Tory MPs, who see | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
him as a selfish clown, unfit for high office. And besides, he's not | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
the only one with king-sized ambition, and Boris and George are | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
not close, however much they may profess unity. There is probably | :34:07. | :34:16. | |
some Chinese expression for a complete and perfect harmony. Ying | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
and yang. But in plain black and white, if Boris has a plan, it's one | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
he can't instigate, and if David Cameron is PM in 2016, it may not be | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
implementable. He'd need a seat and it wouldn't be plain sailing if he | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
did make a leadership bid. My leadership chances, I think I may | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
have told you before, or about as good as my chances of ying | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
reincarnated as a baked bean. Which is probably quite high. So if the | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
job you want with Brown-esque desire is potentially never to be yours | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
what do you do? He is, of course, an American citizen by birth. He was | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
born in New York public hospital, and so he is qualified to be | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
President of the United States. And you don't need an IQ over 16 to find | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
that the tiniest bit scary. Giles Dilnot reporting. Helen Lewis, | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
Janan Ganesh and Sam Coates are here. Is there a plan for Boris and | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
if so, what is it? I think the plan is for him to say what he thinks the | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
Tory activist base wants to hear just now. He knows that in 18 months | :35:27. | :35:33. | |
time they can disown it. I think he is wrong, the way the speech has | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
played has a limited number of people. He has cross-party appeal. | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
He has now reconfirmed to people that the Tories are the nasty party | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
and they have been pretending to be modernised. Is it not the truth that | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
he needs David Cameron to lose the 2015 election to become leader in | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
this decade? It is very interesting watching his fortunes wax and wane. | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
It always seems to happen in inverse proportion to how well David Cameron | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
is doing in front of his own party. There is no small element of | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
strategy about what we are doing here. The problem with Boris is that | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
he's popular with the country, but not with the party's MPs and its | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
hard-core supporters. This was an appeal to the grassroots this week. | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
He is not the only potential candidate. If we were in some kind | :36:29. | :36:36. | |
of circumstance where Boris was a runner to replace Mr Cameron, who | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
with the other front the? I think it will skip a generation. The recent | :36:42. | :36:50. | |
intake was ideological assertive. I do not buy the idea that it will be | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
Jeremy Hunt against Michael Gove. I then, that generation will be | :36:56. | :37:03. | |
tainted by being in government. It is interesting, what is he trying to | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
pull? He is ideological. He does not believe in many things, but he | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
believes in a few things quite deeply, and one is the idea of | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
competition, both in business and academic selection. He has never | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
been squeamish about expressing that. We do make mistakes sometimes, | :37:23. | :37:32. | |
assuming he is entirely political. Look at all the Northern voters who | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
will not vote for the Tories even though they are socially or economic | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
the Conservatives. I do not think he helps. Who in the Tories would | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
help? That is a tough question. To reason me has also been speaking to | :37:50. | :37:58. | |
the hard right. -- Theresa May. I have been out with him at night. It | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
is like dining with a film star. People are queueing up to speak to | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
him. Educational selection is one of the few areas that he can offer. He | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
has gone liberal on immigration, as are made of London would have to. | :38:14. | :38:37. | |
Coming up later, should we be allowed to walk the whole length of | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
the south coast? Some landowners are impressed with lands for footpaths | :38:43. | :38:52. | |
on their land next to the C. `` next to the seaside. | :38:53. | :39:06. | |
My second guest was recently selected at an American`style | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
primary. They are out to launch their Westminster career is just as | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
another south`east MP and it is house is nearly over. Laura Sands | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
will not be contesting the next election. She has been a popular MP. | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
He was what happened when she stood up to ask a question of the Prime | :39:28. | :39:38. | |
Minister. I think they were cheering, not | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
booing, but it is hard to tell the difference in Westminster. UK are | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
having a field day, saying that she is running scared `` the UK | :39:49. | :40:00. | |
Independence Party. She says the only thing that would have kept her | :40:01. | :40:09. | |
there was the UKIP challenge. Everyone speaking about her has said | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
that she is one hell of a fighter. I do not believe the UKIP line. What | :40:16. | :40:26. | |
she has done is really change a constituency and work hard for the | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
people. She has delivered amazing results and made herself incredibly | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
popular. What is significant for both of you | :40:37. | :40:38. | |
is that I is that is that there is clearly admission | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
that politics is really tough. Do you think you are prepared for what | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
might be coming your way if you are elected? | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
I hope I am prepared. I have certainly done enough work to | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
prepare myself, talking to other MPs and Lords to get a sense of what | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
their life is about. I topped the decision through with my family. | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
Would you be prepared to put politics before your family? | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
20 years ago I decided I wouldn't but 20 years later it is the right | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
time. You have a new baby so how will you | :41:22. | :41:29. | |
feel about walking away from it? That's right but I have a military | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
background and an used to being away in service of my country. Part of | :41:38. | :41:49. | |
the service and duty ethos that I've been brought up with our those | :41:50. | :41:56. | |
things that will allow me to be away for what is only a few days in the | :41:57. | :42:03. | |
week, not six to nine months at a time. | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
Among women of my age domestic violence is the biggest killer. | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
There are many more women than men who never speak out about the abuse. | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
But the money being spent on services for vulnerable woman has | :42:23. | :42:40. | |
been capped. `` cuts. The abuse usually takes place behind | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
closed doors. Domestic violence may be heading but it is widespread. | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
Support services are under threat and the south`east has been | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
particularly badly hit. James survived domestic violence both as a | :42:58. | :43:05. | |
child and as an adult when her ex husband turned controlling, abusive | :43:06. | :43:15. | |
and eventually violent `` Jane. He pushed me into a road, he tried to | :43:16. | :43:23. | |
rape me. He leapt on me in the middle of the night. He was a big | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
guy. I left and got divorced and bought my own house and that was | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
only through sheer determination that I didn't want to be in that | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
situation anymore. I had the back`up of my friends and family and they | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
kept me strong and encouraged me to keep going. Without them I couldn't | :43:45. | :43:59. | |
have done it. Jane is rebuilding her life but | :44:00. | :44:07. | |
charities say that there has been a loss of specialist services, | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
services run by staff who have experience of working specifically | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
with the mystic violence victims. Here in the south`east, seven | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
specialist services were lost in the last three years, more than anywhere | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
else in the country. There were replaced by big general services. | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
Campaigners say that these black services to support women at risk `` | :44:32. | :44:43. | |
lack the services. This domestic abuse service in Thanet helps woman | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
escape abusive relationships and support those who want to remain in | :44:51. | :44:58. | |
the family home. Staff have to concentrate on face helping women at | :44:59. | :45:11. | |
the highest risk due to cut budgets. Sometimes we ask ourselves if we are | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
putting a sticking plaster on a gaping wound. We are at the sharp | :45:15. | :45:23. | |
end of the work, people who have to flee to refuge because they are | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
unsafe. By that point people get to that, there is so much that could | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
have been done before. This is one of the bedrooms in the | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
refuge. There is space for mum and two children. There have been cut to | :45:39. | :45:48. | |
these kinds of safe houses. There has been a cut of 15% since 2010. | :45:49. | :46:00. | |
One reason why there is a looming crisis is a 30% cut in funding. The | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
ring`fencing budgets for a specialist domestic violence | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
services was lifted in 2009 and the current coalition government has | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
reinforced its commitment to letting local councils decide how to spend | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
the funding. But campaigners argue that small specialist charities are | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
unable to compete in the tendering process run by councils when they | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
decide who should provide the mystic violence services. | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
They are not looking at the pattern of violence. One person had to look | :46:37. | :46:48. | |
after another residence children while she was trying to throw | :46:49. | :46:57. | |
herself out of the window. On average, two women every week are | :46:58. | :47:03. | |
killed by their current or former partners. Jane fears for others who | :47:04. | :47:14. | |
don't get the help she received. People lose their lives because of | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
this. If they cut the services, more people will die. | :47:19. | :47:27. | |
I'm joins by Amber Rudd, the Conservative MP for Hastings and | :47:28. | :47:34. | |
drive. Councils are spending less on vulnerable people, including women | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
and children at risk of domestic abuse. We are going backwards and | :47:39. | :47:52. | |
not for words I don't think so but I take very seriously what I have | :47:53. | :48:01. | |
heard. Councils have an obligation to | :48:02. | :48:08. | |
provide refugees and there are many ways of doing that. The other thing | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
I picked up was the comment about a sticking plaster. We have to make | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
sure that we constantly get the message out about domestic | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
violence, that it is unacceptable. We have to start in schools. It | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
should not be hidden away. I was pleased that Clare's Law was brought | :48:31. | :48:38. | |
in that allows women to find out about the violent past of potential | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
partners. We take domestic violence very seriously. | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
You may take it seriously but do you trust local authorities to spend an | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
appropriate amount of money? You rightly said that Labour got bit of | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
the ring`fencing of this budget but you haven't put it back. They just | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
get their general pot of cash and have to decide what to do with it. | :49:04. | :49:12. | |
You cannot stop the council spending money meant for domestic violence on | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
fixing potholes. Shouldn't the government be taking more control? | :49:18. | :49:26. | |
No, local councils are the best to know what to do with the money. They | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
will not fix potholes over saving lives. | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
So why has the money being spent on vulnerable people gone down by 30% | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
in the last five years? They may have bind other ways `` | :49:42. | :49:58. | |
found other ways. The Home Office has put in an additional ?40 million | :49:59. | :50:07. | |
that goes direct to refuges. This government for the first time this | :50:08. | :50:10. | |
putting rape crisis centres on a level funding. We put in another 3.5 | :50:11. | :50:18. | |
million. We are doing as much as we can and are pushing forward. Nobody | :50:19. | :50:25. | |
underestimates the importance of it so we are putting pressure on local | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
councils. Thank you for joining us. This is a | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
field of expertise for you. You've done a Ph.D. On women's resistance | :50:36. | :50:46. | |
to domestic violence. But it was the Labour Party who took the | :50:47. | :50:53. | |
ring`fencing away. They allow councils to spend that money on | :50:54. | :51:00. | |
anything they like. So that was a mistake? Well let's see what the | :51:01. | :51:13. | |
results are. There is a politics here we need to think about. The | :51:14. | :51:21. | |
impact is that vulnerable women are not being served, if so we need to | :51:22. | :51:30. | |
protect and enhance the nature of specialist services. | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
Those figures we looked at with those seven services being cut. That | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
is your biggest concern, that we are losing the expertise of helping | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
women and indeed men in these situations? | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
What is really important is that specialist services, people who know | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
what it is really like to deal with the trauma, the fear, the | :51:58. | :52:08. | |
disruption, the scaling issues `` schooling issues. The task is to | :52:09. | :52:17. | |
offer continued support and understanding and counselling and a | :52:18. | :52:27. | |
whole range of services. You have to understand what women are going | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
through and the range of services they need and that has to be | :52:31. | :52:38. | |
protected. Let's look at who makes the decision | :52:39. | :52:45. | |
about the funding. Your party is all for local democracy and local | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
authorities making the decision on where they spend money but they are | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
spending less money on victims of domestic abuse. Do you trust them? | :52:52. | :53:01. | |
I trust people to elect who they want at every level of government. I | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
hope they will trust me to be the representative in Westminster. This | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
is about people deciding who they want to represent them and how did | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
this bend `` how they spend that money. What we're looking at is a | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
government that is trying to get its hands on a budget that was | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
completely out of control and in order to do so it has had to rein in | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
some of the funding from some of the more egregious areas of spending. | :53:33. | :53:41. | |
Some are acknowledging that Labour have made a mistake here. | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
The idea that everything should be done by Westminster is wrong. What | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
about the responsibility of government to protect the most | :53:53. | :53:59. | |
vulnerable individuals? The government does have that | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
responsibility and that is why to raise me `` Theresa May has been | :54:03. | :54:12. | |
introducing measures. There has been 100 cases where police have | :54:13. | :54:19. | |
intervened. Clare's Law must help someone in but | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
it alone with the backdrop of services being cut does not address | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
the issue. You cannot get more local than domestic violence. You have to | :54:33. | :54:40. | |
prioritise the experience that women have in their own home. | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
This isn't only about women. It affects one in six men in their | :54:47. | :54:54. | |
lives. Another question for you to think | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
about. Should you have the right to walk anywhere you like along the | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
south coast? Plans are in place to run a foot path along the whole of | :55:04. | :55:11. | |
the coastline. Not everybody was keen on the idea. Landowners are | :55:12. | :55:21. | |
seeing now to people walking on their lands, that's all a bit | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
predictable, isn't it? You could say that Bartz the | :55:28. | :55:44. | |
government has `` you could say that but we have tried to follow the | :55:45. | :55:52. | |
Welsh model of using the highways act to bridge those gaps. So you're | :55:53. | :56:00. | |
looking for a bit of the compensation, a bit of a pay`out for | :56:01. | :56:09. | |
the landowners. Yes, it is private property. If you | :56:10. | :56:19. | |
have your own private property, why shouldn't you be compensated for | :56:20. | :56:23. | |
people using it? What would you be compensated for? | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
What are the downsides of people walking on it? | :56:28. | :56:34. | |
You are potentially losing value on the land because you cannot use it | :56:35. | :56:50. | |
exclusively for your own use. If the cliff falls into the sea, we | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
get a bit more of your lands to walk on? | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
Correct. Do you have sympathy for the | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
landowners? I do that I'll so have `` I also | :57:03. | :57:18. | |
have sympathy for the walkers. We are walking around some of the most | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
beautiful coastlines in the world and it is a fantastic opportunity | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
for people to get out and exercise. There is a landowner issue and I | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
understand what the gentleman was saying about getting the rights | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
appropriately balanced I think there is a I is a | :57:37. | :57:37. | |
is a bit of work to do on this. Someone from the Ramblers | :57:38. | :57:46. | |
Association described this as a bed victory for everyone who walks on | :57:47. | :57:59. | |
our island. Do we all have the right to walk on someone else's land? | :58:00. | :58:07. | |
If it is someone else's land, there is an issue, but this is about | :58:08. | :58:17. | |
making it public land. That is an important right that was enshrined | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
by the last government. We live in the most beautiful part of the | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
country and people should be able to enjoy that for free. We have a | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
problem with obesity in this country and this is a fantastic proposal to | :58:33. | :58:38. | |
get everybody out with rights of access and fresh air to enjoy the | :58:39. | :58:41. | |
wonderful countryside. You don't need every part of the | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
countryside joined up to encourage people to go out for a walk though. | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
You used to be able to rely on the countryside for core support. But it | :58:54. | :59:01. | |
seems the Conservative Party have annoyed some people in the | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
countryside. I think you will find that David | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
Cameron is the Prime Minister of the whole of the United Kingdom and not | :59:12. | :59:14. | |
a special lobbyist for the countryside. | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
But you need everybody to get out of coalition. | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
Yes and I think you will find we will reach that in the next | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
election. You are right that we needs to keep our links with the | :59:30. | :59:37. | |
countryside and I am fortunate enough to be living in the | :59:38. | :59:45. | |
countryside. Farmers will know where to come next | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
spring then. Time for a round`up of the week. | :59:51. | :59:57. | |
12 children centres are to close in Kent as part of a cost`cutting | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
drive. 11 others which were earmarked for closure will now be | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
speared, costing an extra ?5000 in two years. Council bosses claim they | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
have made sure the most vulnerable don't lose out. | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
Earlier this week, I was tested for HIV. | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
Brighton Kemptown MP Simon Kirby used Prime Minister's Questions to | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
raise annual World AIDS Day. Brighton and Hove has the highest | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
prevalence of people with HIV outside London and the rate is | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
rising. Around one in five don't know they have virus. | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
It is a brave man who bets against the All Blacks when it comes to | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
rugby but David Cameron did just that when he promised the New | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
Zealand PM he would wear a pair of Kiwi cuff links designed by a | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
jeweller in Brighton if he lost. I did so last week but fortunately | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
nobody noticed. And days after the PM got into | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
trouble for suggesting an opposition MP may have taken mind`altering | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
drugs, a Labour MP asked the MP for Lewes Norman Baker if he had had | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
mind`altering surgery before becoming the Drugs Minister. | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
Had I had a lobotomy, I wouldn't be able to answer that question. | :00:59. | :01:07. | |
You have both just done your first television interviews as prospective | :01:08. | :01:14. | |
parliamentary candidates. I was at? It should have been longer. It was | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
great fun. That's all we've got time for this | :01:20. | :01:20. | |
week. Goodbye. touching on eugenics and things like | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
that. That is all we have time for. Thank you. | :01:27. | :01:27. | |
that. That is all we have time for. Thank you. What rabbit has George | :01:28. | :01:44. | |
Osborne got up his sleeve? And what's David Cameron up to in China? | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
All questions for The Week Ahead. To help the panel led, we are joined by | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
Kwasi Kwarteng, Tory MP. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Why has the | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
government been unable to move the agenda and to the broad economic | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
recovery, and allowed the agenda to stay on Labour's ground of energy | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
prices and living standards? Energy has been a big issue over the last | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
few months but the autumn state and will be a wonderful opportunity to | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
readdress where we are fighting the ground, the good economic news that | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
we delivered. If you look at where Labour were earlier this year, | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
people were saying they would they 5 million people unemployed. They were | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
saying that there should be a plan B. He is not in the Labour Party? | :02:36. | :02:43. | |
Elements of the left were suggesting it. Peter Hain told me it would be | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
up to 3 million people. Danny Blanchflower said it would be 5 | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
million people. So we have got to get the economy back to the centre | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
of the debate? Yes, the game we were playing was about the economy. That | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
was the central fighting ground of the political debate. We were | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
winning that battle. Labour have cleverly shifted it onto the cost of | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
living. It is essential that the government, that George, talks about | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
the economy. That has been its great success. I do not think this has | :03:19. | :03:27. | |
been a week of admitting that Labour was right, plain cigarettes | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
packaging, other issues. If you look at the big picture, where we are | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
with the economy, we have the fastest growing economy in the G-7. | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
Despite Labour's predictions, none of this has happened, none of the | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
triple dip has happened. The British economy is on a good fitting. That | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
is a good story for the government to bat on. You say that people have | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
stopped talking about the economic recovery, but it is worse than that, | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
people have stopped talking about the deficit? As long as people were | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
talking about the deficit, the Tories were trusted. But people have | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
forgotten about it. This country still spends ?100 billion more than | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
it raises. Yes, I am of the view that the deficit, the national | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
debt, is the biggest question facing this generation of politicians. You | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
are right to suggest that the Conservative Party was strong on | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
this. That head, not deficit, is not going to come down in the | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
foreseeable future? It is rising. This is a test that George Osborne | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
is not going to pass. We know what is coming in the Autumn Statement, | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
it is lots of giveaways, paying for free school meals, paying for fuel | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
duty subsidies. We are still talking about the cost of living, not | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
changing it actively wider economy. There might be extra money for | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
growth but it is not clear what will happen to that. If it is time for | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
giveaways, let's speak about Labour. I have never been a fan of | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
giveaways. Fiscal prudence is what our watchword should be. Look at the | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
headlines. Each time, the deficit figures, the debt figures, were | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
always worse than predicted. This year it will be significantly | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
better. I think that is significant. Any kind of recovery is probably | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
better than no recovery at all. When you look at this recovery, it is | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
basically a consumer spending boom. Consumer spending is up, business | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
investment is way down compared with 2008, and exports, despite a 20 | :05:52. | :05:59. | |
devaluation, our flat. Let's get one thing straight, it is a recovery. | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
Any recovery is better than no recovery. Now we can have a debate | :06:04. | :06:11. | |
about, technical debate about the elements of the recovery. It is not | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
technical, it is a fact. There is evidence that there is optimism in | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
terms of what are thinking... Optimism? If I am optimistic about | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
the economy, I am more likely to spend money and invest in business. | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
So far you have not managed that? Exports have not done well either? | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
Exports are not a big section of the British economy. But of course, they | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
are important. But given where we were at the end of last year, no | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
economist was saying that we would be in this robust position today. | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
That is true, in terms of the overall recovery. Now the PM loves | :06:54. | :07:01. | |
to "bang the drum abroad for British business" and he's off to China this | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
evening with a plane-load of British business leaders. And it's not the | :07:05. | :07:06. | |
first time. Take a look at this Well, you might not think exports | :07:07. | :08:00. | |
unimportant, but clearly the Prime Minister and the Chancellor do. They | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
are important, but they are not what is driving the growth at the moment. | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
We used to talk about the need for export led recovery is, that is why | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
the Prime Minister is going to China. Absolutely, and he's doing | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
the right thing. Do we have any evidence that these tend of trips | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
produce business? The main example so far is the right to trade the | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
Chinese currency offshore. London has a kind of global primacy. London | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
will be the offshore centre. Is that a good thing? I have no problem at | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
all with this sort of policy. I do not think that Britain has been | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
doing this enough compared with France and Germany in recent years. | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
I am optimistic in the long term about this dish -- about British | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
exports to China. China need machine tools and manufacturing products. In | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
20 years time, China will be buying professional groups, educational | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
services, the things we excel at. All we need to do is consolidate our | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
strengths, stand still and we will move forward. The worst thing we can | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
do is reengineer the economy towards those services and away from | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
something else. We have a lot of ground to make up, Helen? At one | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
stage, it is no longer true, but at one stage you could say that we | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
exported more to Ireland, a country of 4 million people, than we did to | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
Russia, China, India, Brazil, all combined. I believe we form 1% of | :09:38. | :09:47. | |
Chinese imports now. The problem is what you have to give up in exchange | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
for that. It is a big problem for David Cameron's credibility that he | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
has had to row back on his meeting with the Dalai llama. This trip we | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
have been in the deep freeze with China for a couple of years. This | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
trip has come at a high cost. We have had to open up the City of | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
London to Chinese banks without much scrutiny, we have had to move the | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
date of the Autumn Statement, and there is no mention of human rights. | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
It is awkward to deal with that all in the name of getting up to where | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
we were a few years ago. A month after strong anchor -- one month | :10:26. | :10:33. | |
after Sri Lanka, where he apologised three human rights abuses, this is | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
difficult to take. Do we have any idea what the Prime Minister hopes | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
to do in China this time? I am not sure there is anything specific but | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
when you go to these countries, certainly in the Middle East China, | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
they complain, why has the Prime Minister not come to see us? That is | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
very important. High-level delegations from other countries go | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
to these places because the addict -- because they are important export | :11:04. | :11:14. | |
markets. You might look at the Prime Minister playing cricket over there, | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
and wonder, what is that for? I do not mind the Prime Minister Rajoy | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
cricket. This is a high visibility mission, chose that politicians in | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
Britain care. You are part of the free enterprise group. It had all | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
sorts of things on it like tax cuts for those on middle incomes or above | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
the 40% bracket, tax cuts worth 16 billion. You will get none of that | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
on Thursday, we are agreed? No. But he does have two budgets between now | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
and the election and if the fiscal position is using a little bit, he | :11:51. | :11:58. | |
may have more leeway than it looked like a couple of months ago. Yes, | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
from a free enter prise point of view, we have looked at the tax cuts | :12:02. | :12:09. | |
that should be looked at. The 4 p rate comes in at quite a low level | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
for people who, in the south-east, do not feel particularly wealthy. | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
They are spending a lot of money on commuting, energy bills. The | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
Chancellor has been very open about championing this. He says that the | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
40p rate will kick in at a slightly higher rate. Labour had a bad summer | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
and the opinion polls seem to be narrowing. Then they had a good | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
hearty conference season. The best. Has the Labour lead solidified or | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
increased the little, maybe up to eight points? If it is a good Autumn | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
Statement, or the Tories start to narrow that lead by the end of the | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
year? If they go into 2014 trailing by single digits, they cannot | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
complain too much. That gives them 18 months to chip away at Labour's | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
lead. But do they do that chipping away by eight bidding Labour or do | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
they let time take its course and let the economic recovery continue, | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
maybe business investment joins consumer spending as a source of | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
that recovery, and a year from now, household disposable income begins | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
to rise? That is a better hope than engaging in a bidding war. Be | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
assured, they will be highly political budgets. That's all for | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
today. The Daily Politics is on BBC Two at midday all this week, except | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
on Thursday when we'll start at 10:45 to bring you live coverage and | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
analysis of the Chancellor's Autumn Statement in a Daily Politics | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
special for BBC Two and the BBC News Channel. Remember if it's Sunday, | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:45. | :13:47. |