Browse content similar to 12/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
David Davis tells MPs to leave the Brexit bill untouched, | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
ahead of a week which could see Britain begin the process | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
We'll talk to a Tory rebel and Ukip's Nigel Farage. | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
Phillip Hammond's first budget hit the rocks thanks to a tax rise | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
But how should we tax those who work for themselves? | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
And remember Donald Trump's claim that Barack Obama had ordered | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
We'll talk to the former Tory MP who set the whole story rolling. | :01:04. | :01:11. | |
And in the south-east: With more Government money | :01:12. | :01:13. | |
for adult social care, we ask where is it coming | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
And joining me for all of that, three self-employed journalists | :01:17. | :01:31. | |
who definitely don't deserve a tax break. | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer | :01:36. | :01:36. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme with all the carefree | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
abandon of Katie Hopkins before a libel trial. | :01:41. | :01:48. | |
BBC lawyers have suddenly got nervous! | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
So first today, the government is gearing up to trigger Article 50, | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
perhaps in the next 48 hours, and start negotiating Britain's | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
Much has been written about the prospect of the Commons | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
getting a "meaningful vote" on the deal Britain negotiates. | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
Brexit Secretary David Davis was on the Andrew Marr programme | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
earlier this morning and he was asked what happens | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
Well, that is what is called the most favoured nation status deal | :02:07. | :02:16. | |
There we go out, as it were, on WTO rules. | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
That is why of course we do the contingency planning, to make | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
The British people decided on June the 23rd last year | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
My job, and the job of the government, is to make | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
the terms on which that happens as beneficial as possible. | :02:38. | :02:47. | |
There we have it, clearly, either Parliament votes for the deal when | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
it is done or it out on World Trade Organisation rules. That's what the | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
government means by a meaningful vote. | :02:59. | :03:00. | |
I think we get over obsessed about whether there will be a legal right | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
for Parliament to have a vote. If there is no deal or a bad deal, I | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
think it would be politically impossible for the government to | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
reject Parliament's desire for a vote because the atmosphere of | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
politics will be completely different by then. I take David | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
Davies seriously. Within Whitehall he has acquired a reputation as | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
being the most conscientious and details sadly... And well briefed. | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
Absolutely and well travelled in terms of European capitals of the | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
three Brexit ministers. It is quite telling he said what he did and it | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
is quite telling that within cabinet, two weeks ago he was | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
floating the idea of no deal at all. Being if not the central estimate | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
than a completely plausible eventuality. It is interesting. I | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
would suggest the prospect of no deal is moving up the agenda. It is | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
still less likely than more likely to happen. But it's no longer a kind | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
of long tail way out there in the distance. Planning for no deal is | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
the same as having contents insurance or travel insurance, plan | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
for the worse case scenarios are prepared it happens. Even the worst | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
case scenario, it's not that bad. Think of the Jeep 20, apart from the | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
EU, four members of the G20 economies are successful members of | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
the EU. The rest aren't and don't have trade deals but somehow these | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
countries are prospering. They are growing at a higher rate. You are | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
not frightened? Not remotely. We are obsessed with what we get from the | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
EU and the key thing we get from leaving the EU is not the deal but | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
the other deals we can finally make with other trading partners. They | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
have higher growth than virtually every other EU country apart from | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
Germany. It is sensible as a negotiating position for the | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
government to say if there is no deal, we will accept there is no | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
deal. We're not frightened of no deal. It was clear from what David | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
Davies was saying that there will be a vote in parliament at the end of | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
the process but there won't be a third option to send the government | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
back to try to get a better deal. It is either the deal or we leave | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
without a deal. In reality, that third option will be there. We don't | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
know yet whether there will be a majority for the deal if they get | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
one. What we do know now is that there isn't a majority in the | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
Commons for no deal. Labour MPs are absolutely clear that no deal is | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
worth then a bad deal. I've heard enough Tory MPs say the same thing. | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
But they wouldn't get no deal through. When it comes to this vote, | :05:28. | :05:36. | |
if whatever deal is rejected, there will then be, one way or another, | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
the third option raised of go back again. But who gets to decide what | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
is a bad deal? The British people will have a different idea than the | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
two thirds of the Remain supporting MPs in the Commons. In terms of the | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
vote, the Commons. Surely, if the Commons, which is what matters here, | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
if the Commons were to vote against the deal as negotiated by the | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
government, surely that would trigger a general election? If the | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
government had recommended the deal, surely the government would then, if | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
it still felt strongly about the deal, if the other 27 had said, | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
we're not negotiating, extending it, it would in effect become a second | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
referendum on the deal. In effect it would be a no-confidence vote in the | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
government. You've got to assume that unless something massively | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
changes in the opposition before then, the government would feel | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
fairly confident about a general election on those terms. Unless the | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
deal is hideously bad and obviously basso every vote in the country... | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
The prior minister said if it is that bad she would have rather no | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
deal. So that eventuality arrives. -- the Prime Minister has said. Not | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
a second referendum general election in two years' time. Don't put any | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
holidays for! LAUGHTER -- don't look any. | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
So the Brexit bill looks likely to clear Parliament this week. | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
That depends on the number of Conservative MPs who are prepared | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
to vote against their government on two key issues. | :07:05. | :07:06. | |
Theresa May could be in negotiations with our European | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
partners within days, but there may be some | :07:11. | :07:12. | |
wheeler-dealings she has to do with her own MPs, too. | :07:13. | :07:14. | |
Cast your mind back to the beginning of month. | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
The bill to trigger Article 50 passed comfortably | :07:19. | :07:20. | |
But three Conservatives voted for Labour's amendments to ensure | :07:21. | :07:28. | |
the rights of EU citizens already in the UK. | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
Seven Tory MPs voted to force the government to give Parliament | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
a say on the deal struck with the EU before it's finalised. | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
But remember those numbers, they're important. | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
On the issue of a meaningful vote on a deal, I'm told there might have | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
been more rebels had it not been for this assurance from | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
I can confirm that the government will bring forward a motion | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
on the final agreement to be approved by both Houses | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
And we expect, and intend, that this will happen before | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
the European Parliament debates and votes on the final agreement. | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
When the government was criticised for reeling back | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
from when and what it would offer a vote on. | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
The bill then moved into the Lords, where peers passed it | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
And the second, that Parliament be given a meaningful vote on the terms | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
of the deal or indeed a vote in the event of there | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
The so-called Brexit bill will return to Commons | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
Ministers insist that both amendments would weaken | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
the government's negotiating hand and are seeking to overturn them. | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
But, as ever, politics is a numbers game. | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
Theresa May has a working majority of 17. | :08:50. | :08:51. | |
On Brexit, though, it's probably higher. | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
At least six Labour MPs generally vote with | :08:56. | :08:57. | |
Plus, eight DUP MPs, two from the Ulster Unionist party | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
If all Conservatives vote with the government as well, | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
Therefore, 26 Conservative rebels are needed for the government to be | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
So, are there rough waters ahead for Theresa May? | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
What numbers are we looking at, in terms of a potential rebellion? | :09:22. | :09:23. | |
I think we're looking at a large number of people who are interested | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
This building is a really important building. | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
It's symbolic of a huge amount of history. | :09:30. | :09:31. | |
And for it not to be involved in this momentous time would, | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
But he says a clear verbal statement from the government on a meaningful | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
vote on any deal would be enough to get most Tory MPs onside. | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
It was already said about David Jones. | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
It's slightly unravelled a little bit during | :09:51. | :09:51. | |
I think this is an opportunity to really get that clarity | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
through so that we can all vote for Article 50 and get | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
We've have spoken to several Tory MPs who say they are minded to vote | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
One said the situation was sad and depressing. | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
The other said that the whips must be worried because they don't | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
A minister told me Downing Street was looking again at the possibility | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
of offering a vote in the event of no deal being reached. | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
But that its position was unlikely to change. | :10:23. | :10:24. | |
And, anyway, government sources have told the Sunday Politics they're not | :10:25. | :10:26. | |
That those Tory MPs who didn't back either amendment the first time | :10:27. | :10:33. | |
round would look silly if they did, this time. | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
It would have to be a pretty hefty lot of people changing their minds | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
about things that have already been discussed in quite a lot of detail, | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
last time it was in the Commons, for things to be reversed this time. | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
There's no doubt that a number of Tory MPs are very concerned. | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
Labour are pessimistic about the chances of enough Tory | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
rebels backing either of the amendments in the Commons. | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
The important thing, I think, is to focus on the fact | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
that this is the last chance to have a say on this. | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
If they're going to vote with us, Monday is the time to do it. | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
Assuming the bill does pass the Commons unamended, | :11:07. | :11:08. | |
it will go back to the Lord's on Monday night where Labour peers | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
have already indicated they won't block it again. | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
It means that the Brexit bill would become law and Theresa May | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
would be free to trigger Article 50 within days. | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
Her own deadline was the end of this month. | :11:22. | :11:23. | |
But one minister told me there were advantages to doing it early. | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
We're joined now from Nottingham by the Conservative MP Anna Soubry. | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
She's previously voted against the government on the question | :11:34. | :11:35. | |
of whether Parliament should have a final say over the EU deal. | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
Anna Soubry, I think it was clear this morning from David Davies that | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
what he means by meaningful vote is not what you mean by a meaningful | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
vote. He thinks the choice for Parliament would be to either vote | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
for the deal and if Parliament doesn't, we leave on World Trade | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
Organisation rules, on a bare-bones structure. In the end, will he | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
accept that in the Commons tomorrow? No, because my problem and I don't | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
think it is a problem, but my problem, the government's problem is | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
that what I want is then to answer this question. What happens in the | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
event of their not being any deal? David Davies made it very clear that | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
in the event of there being no deal, Parliament would have no say. It | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
means through your elected representatives, the people of this | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
country would have no say on what happens if the government doesn't | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
get a deal. I think the request that Parliament should have a say on | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
Parliamentary sovereignty, is perfectly reasonable. That is what I | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
want David to say. If he says that, I won't be rebelling. If he does... | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
They have refused to say that. Sorry. If he continues to say what | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
he said the BBC this morning, which means that the vote will be either | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
to accept the as negotiated or to leave on WTO rules, will you rebel | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
on that question but no, no, sorry, if there's a deal, Parliament will | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
have a say. So that's fine. And we will see what the deal is and we | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
will look at the options two years down the road. When who knows | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
what'll happen in our economy and world economy. That is one matter | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
which I am content on. The Prime Minister, a woman of her word has | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
said that in the event of a deal, Parliament will vote on any deal. I | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
don't difficulty. To clarify, I will come onto that. These are important | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
matters. I want to clarify, not argue with you. You are content that | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
if there is a deal, we will come under no deal in a second, but if | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
there is a deal, you are content with the choice of being able to | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
vote for that deal or leaving on WTO terms? No, you're speculating as to | :13:51. | :13:52. | |
what might happen in two years' time. What the options might be. | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
Personally I find it inconceivable that the government will come back | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
with a rubbish deal. They will either come back with a good deal, | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
which I won't have a problem with or they will come back with no deal. To | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
speculate about coming back with a deal, there is a variety of options. | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
I understand that that is what the Lord amendments are about. They are | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
about a vote at the end of the process. Do forgive me, the Lords | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
amendment is not the same that I've voted for in Parliament. What we | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
call the Chris Leslie amendment, which was talking about whatever the | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
agreement is, whatever happens at the end of the negotiations, | :14:31. | :14:32. | |
Parliament will have a vote. Parliament will have a say. The | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
Lords amendment is a bit more technical. It is the principle of no | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
deal that is agitating us. Let's clarify on this. They are | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
complicated matters. What do you want the government to say? What do | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
you want David Davis to say tomorrow on what should the Parliamentary | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
process should be if there is no deal? Quite. I want a commitment | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
from him that in the event of no deal, it will come into Parliament | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
and Parliament will determine what happens next. It could be that in | :15:03. | :15:10. | |
the event of no deal, the best thing is for us to jump off the cliff into | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
WTO tariff is. I find it unlikely but that might be the reality. There | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
might be other alternatives. Most importantly, including saying to the | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
government, go back, carry on. The question that everybody has to ask | :15:23. | :15:24. | |
is, why won't the government give My fear is what this is about is | :15:25. | :15:35. | |
asked deliberately, not the Prime Minister, but others deliberately | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
ensuring we have no deal and no deal pretty soon and in that event, we | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
jumped off the cliff onto WTO tariffs and nobody in this country | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
and the people of this country do not have a say. My constituents did | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
not vote for hard Brexit. You do not want the government to | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
have the ability if there is no deal to automatically fall back on the | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
WTO rules? Quite. It is as simple as that. We are now speculating about | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
what will happen in two years. I want to find out what happens | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
tomorrow. What will you do if you don't get that assurance? I will | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
either abstain, or I will vote to keep this amendment within the Bill. | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
I will either vote against my government, which I do not do | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
likely, I have never voted against my government until the Chris Leslie | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
clause when the Bill was going through, or I will abstain, which | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
has pretty much the same effect because it comes into the Commons | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
with both amendments so you have positively to vote to take the map. | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
Can you give us an idea of how many like-minded conservative colleagues | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
there are. I genuinely do not know. You must talk to each other. I do | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
not talk to every member of my party. You know people who are | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
like-minded. I do. I am not doing numbers games. I know you want that | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
but I genuinely do not know the figure. I think this is an | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
uncomfortable truth. People have to understand what has happened in our | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
country, two particular newspapers, creating an atmosphere and setting | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
an agenda and I think many people are rather concerned, some | :17:27. | :17:28. | |
frightened, to put their head over the parapet. There are many millions | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
of people who feel totally excluded from this process. Many of them | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
voted to remain. And they have lost their voice. We have covered the | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
ground I wanted to. We're joined now by the Ukip MEP | :17:44. | :17:44. | |
and former leader Nigel Farage. Article 50 triggered, we are leaving | :17:45. | :17:57. | |
the EU, the single market and the customs union. What is left you to | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
complain about? All of that will happen and hopefully we will get the | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
triggered this week which is good news. What worries me a little I'm | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
not sure the government recognises how strong their handers. At the | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
summit in Brussels, the word in the corridors is that we are prepared to | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
give away fishing waters as a bargaining chip and the worry is | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
what deal we get. Are we leaving, yes I am pleased about that. You are | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
under relevant voice in the deal because the deal will be voted on in | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
Parliament and you have one MP. You are missing the point, the real vote | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
in parliament is not in London but Strasbourg. This is perhaps the | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
biggest obstacle the British Government faces. Not what happens | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
in the Commons that the end of the two years, the European Parliament | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
could veto the deal. What that means is people need to adopt a different | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
approach. We do not need to be lobbying in the corridors of | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
Brussels to get a good deal, we need is a country to be out there talking | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
to the German car workers and Belgian chocolate makers, putting as | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
much pressure as we can on politicians from across Europe to | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
come to a sensible arrangement. It is in their interests more than | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
ours. In what way is the vision of Brexit set out by David Davis any | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
different from your own? I am delighted there are people now | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
adopting the position I argued for many years. Good. But now... Like | :19:26. | :19:33. | |
Douglas Carswell, he said he found David Davis' performers this morning | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
reassuring. It is. And just as when Theresa May was Home Secretary every | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
performance she gave was hugely reassuring. She was seen to be a | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
heroine after her conference speeches and then did not deliver. I | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
am concerned that even before we start we are making concessions. You | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
described in the EU's divorce bill demands, 60 billion euros is floated | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
around. You said it is laughable and I understand that. Do you maintain | :20:04. | :20:10. | |
that we will not have to pay a penny to leave? It is nine months since we | :20:11. | :20:18. | |
voted exit and assuming the trigger of Article 50, we would have paid 30 | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
billion in since we had a vote. We are still members. But honestly, I | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
do not think there is an appetite for us to pay a massive divorce | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
Bill. There are assets also. Not a penny? There will be some ongoing | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
commitments, but the numbers talked about our 50, ?60 billion, they are | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
frankly laughable. I am trying to find out if you are prepared to | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
accept some kind of exit cost, it may be nowhere near 60 billion. We | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
have to do a net agreement, the government briefed about our share | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
of the European Union investment bank. Would you accept a | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
transitional arrangement, deal, five, ten billion, as part of the | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
divorce settlement? We are painted net ?30 million every single day at | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
the moment, ?10 billion plus every year. That is just our contribution. | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
We are going to make a massive saving on this. What do you make of | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
what Anna Soubry said, that if there is no deal, and it is being talked | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
about more. Maybe the government managing expectations. There is an | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
expectation we will have a deal, but if there is no deal, that the | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
government cannot just go to WTO rules, but it has to have a vote in | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
parliament? By the time we get to that there will be a general | :21:47. | :21:48. | |
election coming down the tracks and I suspect that if at the end of the | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
two-year process there is no deal and by the way, no deal is a lot | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
better for the nation than where we currently are, because we freed of | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
regulations and able to make our own deals in the world. I think what | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
would happen, and if Parliament said it did not back, at the end of the | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
negotiation a general election would happen quickly. According to reports | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
this morning, one of your most senior aides has passed a dossier to | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
police claiming Tories committed electoral fraud in Thanet South, the | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
seat contested in the election. What evidence to you have? I read that in | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
the newspapers as you have. I am not going to comment on it. Will you not | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
aware of the contents of the dossier? I am not aware of the | :22:40. | :22:46. | |
dossier. He was your election strategists. I am dubious as to | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
whether this dossier exists at all. Perhaps the newspapers have got this | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
wrong. Concerns about the downloading of data the took place | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
in that constituency, there are. Allegedly, he has refuted it, was it | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
done by your MP to give information to the Tories, do you have evidence | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
about? We have evidence Mr Carswell downloaded information, we have no | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
evidence what he did with it. It is not just your aide who has been | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
making allegations against the Conservatives in Thanet South and | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
other seats, if the evidence was to be substantial, and if it was to | :23:35. | :23:41. | |
result in another by-election being called an Thanet South had to be | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
fought again, would you be the Ukip candidate? I probably would. You | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
probably would? Yes. Just probably? Just probably. It would be your | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
eighth attempt. Winning seats in parliament under first past the post | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
is not the only way to change politics in Britain and I would like | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
to think I proved that. Let's go back to Anna Soubry. The implication | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
of what we were saying on the panel at the start of the show and what | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
Nigel Farage was saying there would be that if at the end of the process | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
whatever the vote, if the government were to lose it, it would provoke a | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
general election properly. I think that would be right. Let's get real. | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
The government is not going to come to Parliament with anything other | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
than something it believes is a good deal and if it rejected it, would be | :24:31. | :24:39. | |
unlikely, there would be a de facto vote of no confidence and it would | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
be within the fixed term Parliaments act and that be it. The problem is, | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
more likely, because of the story put up about the 50 billion, 60 | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
billion and you look at the way things are flagged up that both the | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
Prime Minister and Boris Johnson saying, we should be asking them for | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
money back, I think the big fear and the fear I have is we will be | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
crashing out in six months. You think we could leave as quickly as | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
six months. Explain that. I think they will stoke up the demand from | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
the EU for 50, 60 billion back and my real concern is that within six | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
months, where we're not making much progress, maybe nine months, and | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
people are getting increasingly fed up with the EU because they are told | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
it wants unreasonable demands, and then the crash. I think what is | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
happening is the government is putting in place scaffolding at the | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
bottom of the cliff to break our fall when we come to fall off that | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
cliff and I think many in government are preparing not for a two-year | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
process, but six, to nine months, off the cliff, out we go. That is my | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
fear. That is interesting. I have not heard that express before by | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
someone in your position. I suspect you have made Nigel Farage's date. | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
It is a lovely thought. I would say to Anna Soubry she is out of date | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
with this. 40 years ago there was a good argument for joining the common | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
market because tariffs around the world was so high. That has changed | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
with the World Trade Organisation. We are leaving the EU and rejoining | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
a great big world and it is exciting. She was giving an | :26:26. | :26:34. | |
interesting perspective on what could happen in nine months rather | :26:35. | :26:35. | |
than two years. I thank you both. It was Philip Hammond's first | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
budget on Wednesday - billed as a steady-as-she-goes | :26:40. | :26:41. | |
affair, but turned out to cause uproar after the Chancellor appeared | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
to contradict a Tory manifesto commitment with an increase | :26:49. | :26:50. | |
in national insurance contributions. The aim was to address what some see | :26:51. | :26:52. | |
as an imbalance in the tax system, where employees pay | :26:53. | :27:01. | |
more National Insurance The controversy centres | :27:02. | :27:02. | |
on increasing the so-called class 4 rate for the self-employed who make | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
a profit of more than ?8,060 a year. It will go up in stages | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
from 9% to 11% in 2019. The changes mean that over one | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
and a half million will pay on average ?240 a year | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
more in contributions. Some Conservative MPs were unhappy, | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
with even the Wales Minister saying: "I will apologise to every | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
voter in Wales that read the Conservative manifesto | :27:31. | :27:32. | |
in the 2015 election." The Sun labelled Philip | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
Hammond "spite van man". The Daily Mail called the budget | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
"no laughing matter". By Thursday, Theresa May | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
said the government One of the first things I did | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
as Prime Minister was to commission Matthew Taylor to review the rights | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
and protections that were available to self-employed workers | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
and whether they should be enhanced. People will be able to look | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
at the government paper when we produce it, showing | :27:59. | :28:00. | |
all our changes, and take And, of course, the Chancellor will | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
be speaking, as will his ministers, to MPs, businesspeople and others | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
to listen to the concerns. Well, the man you heard mentioned | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
there, Matthew Taylor, has the job of producing | :28:13. | :28:14. | |
a report into the future Welcome. The Chancellor has decided | :28:15. | :28:28. | |
the self-employed should pay almost the same in National Insurance, not | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
the same but almost, as the employed will stop what is left of your | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
commission? The commission has a broader frame of reference and we | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
are interested in the quality of work in the economy at the heart of | :28:41. | :28:47. | |
what I hope will be proposing is a set of shifts that will improve the | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
quality of that work so we have an economy where all work is fair and | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
decent and all jobs give people scope for development and | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
fulfilment. The issue of taxes a small part. You will cover that? We | :29:00. | :29:07. | |
will, because the tax system and employment regulation system drive | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
particular behaviours in our labour market. You approve I think of the | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
general direction of this policy of raising National Insurance on the | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
self-employed. Taxing them in return perhaps for more state benefits. Why | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
are so many others on the left against it from Tim Farron to John | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
McDonnell? Tax rises are unpopular and it is the role of the opposition | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
parties to make capital from unpopular tax rises. I think as tax | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
rises go this is broadly progressive. There are self-employed | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
people on low incomes and they will be better off. It is economic league | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
rational because the reason for the difference in National Insurance -- | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
economically. It was to do with state entitlements. The government | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
is consulting about paid parental leave. A series of governments have | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
not been good about thinking about medium sustainability of the tax | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
base. Self-employment is growing. But it is eroding the tax base. It | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
is important to address those issues. A number of think tanks have | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
said this is a progressive move. Yet, a number of left-wing | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
politicians have been against it. And a number of Tories have said | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
this is a progressive move and not a Tory government move, the balance of | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
you will pay more tax, but you will get more state benefits is not a | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
Tory approach to things. That a Tory approach will be you will pay less | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
tax but entitled to fewer benefits as well. | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
I preferred in and policies to politics -- I prefer policies. When | :30:45. | :30:53. | |
people look at the policy and when they look the fact that there is no | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
real historical basis for that big national insurance differential, | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
they see it is a sensible policy. I don't have to deal with the | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
politics. There has been a huge growth in self-employment from the | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
turn of the millennium. It's been strongest amongst older workers, | :31:09. | :31:09. | |
women part-timers. Do you have any idea, do you have | :31:10. | :31:17. | |
the data in your commission that could tell us how many are taking | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
self-employment because they like the flexibility and they like the | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
tax advantages that come with it, too, or they are being forced into | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
it by employers who don't want the extra costs of employment? Do we | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
know the difference? We do, broadly. Most surveys on self-employment and | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
flexible forms of employment suggest about two thirds to three quarters | :31:43. | :31:44. | |
enjoy it, they like the flexibility, they like the autonomy and about a | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
third to one quarter are less happy. That tends to be because they would | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
like to have a full-time permanent job. It is not necessary that they | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
don't enjoy what they are doing, they would like to do other things. | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
And some of the protections that come with it? Yes. There are some | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
people who are forced into southern employees by high-risk but also some | :32:06. | :32:08. | |
people feel like they can't get a proper job as it were. -- | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
self-employment by people who hire them. It is on the narrow matter of | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
tax revenues but if you are employed on ?32,000 the state will take over | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
?6,000 in national insurance contributions, that is quite chunky. | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
If you are self-employed it is ?2300. But the big difference | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
between those figures isn't what the employee is paying, it's the | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
employer's contributions up to almost 14%, and cupped for as much | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
as you are paid. What do you do about employers' contributions for | :32:43. | :32:50. | |
the self employed? -- it is uncapped for as much. What I recommend is | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
that we should probably move from taxing employment to taxing labour. | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
We should probably have a more level playing field so it doesn't really | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
matter... Explained that I thought it was the same thing. If you are a | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
self-employed gardener, you are a different tax regime to a gardener | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
who works for a gardening firm. On the individual side and on the firm | :33:12. | :33:19. | |
side. As we see new business models, so-called gig working, partly with | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
technology, we need a more level playing field saying that we're | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
taxing people's work, not the form in which they deliver that. That is | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
part of the reason we have seen the growth of particular business | :33:33. | :33:34. | |
models. They are innovative and creative and partly driven by the | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
fact that if you can describe yourself as self-employed there are | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
tax advantages. Coming out in June? Will you come back and talk to us? | :33:45. | :33:46. | |
Yes. We say goodbye to viewers | :33:47. | :33:47. | |
in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes, | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
we'll be talking to the former Tory MP who was the root | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
of Donald Trump's allegation We will be putting that and other | :33:58. | :34:11. | |
questions that our guests today, Daniel Hannan, MEP | :34:12. | :34:32. | |
for the Conservatives, Lord Steve Bassam, | :34:33. | :34:34. | |
Labour's Chief Whip in the Lords, and to discuss this | :34:35. | :34:35. | |
week's budget we are also joined by Paul Carter, Conservative leader | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
of Kent County Council. If so, are you happy to pay your | :34:40. | :34:41. | |
fair share when it comes to The Chancellor says your | :34:42. | :34:51. | |
contributions will go up from next year but Philip Hammond | :34:52. | :34:53. | |
has had to defend his plans from critics on his own | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
side of the house. Daniel Hannan, do you support | :34:58. | :34:59. | |
the increase in national insurance contributions suggested | :35:00. | :35:01. | |
for the millions of self-employed? The Government has already said this | :35:02. | :35:02. | |
will be voted on later and I think The mood music is they are | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
looking at this again and they have been | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
struck by the extent of the opposition and as | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
We want people to be self-employed and | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
I will take this opportunity to say to everyone | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
watching that has started a | :35:21. | :35:21. | |
Politicians are very good at saying thanks | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
to doctors and nurses and | :35:25. | :35:25. | |
teachers, and quite right, but we should also find time to say | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
thank you to the people who are generating | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
the revenue that pay for the doctors and the teachers and the soldiers | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
There is an issue, there is a disparity between self-employed | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
and employed people, both NICs can now pay | :35:39. | :35:40. | |
loophole that some companies are effectively reclassifying their | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
workers as self-employed in order to escape. | :35:48. | :35:49. | |
So that is something that should be addressed and this is not | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
something Phillip Hammond adjusted for the fun | :35:53. | :35:54. | |
probably ways of doing it that are more commensurate | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
You mention the opposition to this and I | :36:00. | :36:08. | |
will put to Steve Bassam, once again, it looks like the effect of | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
opposition here does not, from the Labour | :36:12. | :36:13. | |
front bench but comes from | :36:14. | :36:14. | |
I think Labour members in parliament, both | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
Lords and Commons, have made a lot of noise about this, John McDonnell | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
has been very clear and he was quite quick | :36:23. | :36:24. | |
straight out of the blocks on | :36:25. | :36:26. | |
But that has been Kent MPs like Thomas Tugendhat and Craig | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
Mackinlay who have a really, as Conservative backbenchers, who have | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
That's because of the arithmetic in the | :36:34. | :36:35. | |
Daniel would say it is quite close and there are more than | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
enough Tory MPs who, like us, think this is a rather silly idea. | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
I agree there are some longer term anomalies | :36:44. | :36:45. | |
but I do not think this is the way to deal with it. | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
This is one of the quickest U-turns I've seen in | :36:49. | :36:50. | |
You are a businessman as well as a Conservative politician. | :36:51. | :37:03. | |
Increases in those national insurance increases, what | :37:04. | :37:05. | |
do you see the messages to entrepreneurs? | :37:06. | :37:07. | |
Well, as somebody who has worked in the construction | :37:08. | :37:09. | |
industry all my life and been dependent | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
plumbers, electricians, all strivers, all running their own | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
businesses, I think it is regrettable they have indicated that | :37:15. | :37:16. | |
money will come from increasing the national | :37:17. | :37:18. | |
insurance contributions on | :37:19. | :37:19. | |
those strivers, those of self-employed people. | :37:20. | :37:20. | |
But they more than make up now, or will do in the | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
future, with the full pension, will more than make up for an extra | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
contributions they pay in national insurance. | :37:29. | :37:30. | |
They will still be ahead of the curve. | :37:31. | :37:31. | |
I think it is the message it sends out to people | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
wanting to set up their own businesses. | :37:35. | :37:36. | |
The one-man bands may grow into bigger businesses. | :37:37. | :37:37. | |
What is wrong with the message that you will | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
It is a big, brave, bold step and a difficult world out there, | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
running your own small business and I think | :37:45. | :37:46. | |
we need to encourage and stimulate as many people to be self-reliant, | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
strivers, developing and building their own business and they should | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
Let's go back to Daniel Hannan on, you made | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
the point that Theresa May says the proposed tax rises will not be | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
voted on until the autumn, and crucially, | :37:59. | :38:00. | |
after proposals for extra rights for those | :38:01. | :38:02. | |
self-employed workers are | :38:03. | :38:03. | |
How far should those extra rights go in order for these | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
additional contributions to be deemed as fair? | :38:07. | :38:08. | |
Would you say for holiday pay, sick pay, maternity and | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
I would actually equalise in the opposite direction | :38:12. | :38:13. | |
and bring down national insurance for everybody else, rather than | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
bringing up national insurance for the self-employed. | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
But you could say the system is working. | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
Craig Mackinlay and Thomas Tugendhat made | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
I think this was generally an excellent budget. | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
It had one glitch in it, that is being addressed | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
precisely because Parliament is doing its job and representing the | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
people who elected them and I think we can say the system is doing | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
OK, so is the overall lesson here for | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
politicians, and any of you can answer this one, let's go to Steve | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
The IFS, I quote the IFS, "Stop making silly manifesto | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
Well, I think they're right to draw attention to that. | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
I think this budget was a very quiet budget and | :38:58. | :38:59. | |
for me it was more what it didn't do. | :39:00. | :39:01. | |
It did not put more money to the health service. | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
It made some moves towards social care, it has not | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
addressed long-term inequalities and pay and all those sorts | :39:09. | :39:10. | |
of issues, and I do think that Philip Hammond | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
is trying to keep a lid on a lot of the problems the Tory Government | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
have got longer term, going towards Brexit. | :39:18. | :39:18. | |
He is paying off debt, stimulating the economy. | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
He's nowhere near paying off the debt. | :39:23. | :39:24. | |
Given necessarily limited resources I think he has got | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
So you're apart was saying, or many members of | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
your party, you included, probably, was saying during Brexit referendum | :39:36. | :39:37. | |
run up there was going to be more money available because we were | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
I do not see any of that going towards public | :39:42. | :39:44. | |
Paul over there have been working incredibly hard to get his | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
There is extra money in education and skills. | :39:49. | :39:50. | |
Steve Bassam I'm going to take you where you want to | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
do, we're going to move from the tax to be | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
spend, because that is, as | :39:58. | :39:58. | |
Steve Bassam suggested, an extra ?2 billion on its way | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
to local councils to pay for the care of | :40:02. | :40:03. | |
Paul Carter, immediately after the budget | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
you expressed some concern about whether this ?2 billion | :40:08. | :40:09. | |
Turns out Kent is getting the biggest portion | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
here, an extra ?52 million over the next three years. | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
First of all, we are delighted we have got the additional | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
Everybody knows social care providers have been under enormous | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
pressure in the last three years as the ageing population grows, | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
The distribution method is through the | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
better care fund, it is not ideal or perfect, central Government is | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
having a fundamental review of how local | :40:42. | :40:43. | |
Government is funded which | :40:44. | :40:45. | |
I think the counties will do better from that | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
establish what every local authority needs as a baseline to deliver core | :40:52. | :41:03. | |
Let's look and little homes here because your own head of | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
financial strategy David Shipton says, This | :41:08. | :41:08. | |
week's announcement dwarfs what | :41:09. | :41:10. | |
we previously have for social care and I see you for your own figures | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
you already had earmarked ?3 million extra to spend this year and now it | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
Well, they are large sums of money and I think we | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
will get some direction from central Government | :41:22. | :41:23. | |
as to where they want to | :41:24. | :41:24. | |
The comments he made about no more money for the health | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
service, I think it was Simon Stephens | :41:29. | :41:30. | |
who indicated if there is | :41:31. | :41:31. | |
more money around put it in social care for the inextricable links | :41:32. | :41:45. | |
between social care provision and health | :41:46. | :41:46. | |
community care and, most importantly, getting patients out of | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
hospital in a timely way and the help and support social care can | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
We are doing that in Kent already through enablement services | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
for all patients to get them out of hospital and back | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
in their own home as a universal service, not the | :42:00. | :42:01. | |
The better care fund, which you mentioned, it's | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
interesting and the reason I mention it is because I want to know if you | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
know, and we'll ask other guests, too, where the money | :42:12. | :42:13. | |
The better care fund which up until now has been an extra source | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
of revenue for councils to spend on adult social care turned out | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
to be pulling existing money from the NHS | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
and from you, the local authorities, you are clear you know where this | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
There was better care fund mark one and better | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
Slightly losing the will to live, but yeah. | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
This additional money will be accountable | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
from Kent County Council with its responsibilities to | :42:39. | :42:40. | |
It is new money and the conditions as to how that is spent I imagine | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
we'll be coming to us pretty shortly and it | :42:48. | :42:49. | |
will follow the pattern, I | :42:50. | :42:50. | |
We need to help and support care markets | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
to grow and sustain the | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
provisions so we have got more enablement beds in residential care | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
homes, we support domiciliary care to a greater extent. | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
Let's not make exactly the same points again | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
but let's bring our other guests in about the future. | :43:12. | :43:13. | |
Daniel Hannan, this is only a three-year | :43:14. | :43:15. | |
funding boost and in Kent alone by 2026 the number of people over 65 | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
is expected to increase by another 43%. | :43:19. | :43:20. | |
It is not going to address the longer term issues, is it? | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
In an necessarily limited budget we have | :43:24. | :43:25. | |
prioritised it for exactly the reason you give. | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
In a sense it is a very good problem to have, we're all | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
living longer, we are living longer, healthier lives, but this does | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
necessitate more care at the end of our lives | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
and I think the number of | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
over 75s will double in the next ten years, | :43:43. | :43:44. | |
which is a very significant shift and a very welcome shift, as a | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
But my question was about the future. | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
We had over the past 20 years, and now we know another green | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
paper, the total comes to 12, white papers, Green papers, major | :43:57. | :43:58. | |
consultations on looking after our elderly people and we have not | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
mentiond the disabled adults as well. | :44:04. | :44:10. | |
Is any Government ever going to grasp the nettle and do something | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
This is a huge sum of money which is front-loaded | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
so half of it is being spent immediately. | :44:17. | :44:18. | |
It is a huge sum of money which is going to... | :44:19. | :44:28. | |
We just heard from Paul the difference | :44:29. | :44:29. | |
between what was previously been budgeted and what is now available. | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
Everyone in the industry is calling it a sticking plaster. | :44:33. | :44:34. | |
That is exactly the phrase I was looking | :44:35. | :44:36. | |
Your own MPs think it is a sticking plaster. | :44:37. | :44:44. | |
They see it as a short-term solution and it | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
does not address the wider issues of health care. | :44:48. | :44:49. | |
We are losing doctors, nurses, we will have acute pressures | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
on our health service because of the migration | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
back to Europe for a lot of skilled labour. | :44:58. | :44:59. | |
Steve Bassam, why didn't Labour address this when the | :45:00. | :45:07. | |
Clearly, we do want to listen to what people have to say, as any | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
sensible Government does, but we pumped | :45:16. | :45:17. | |
a lot more resources into the | :45:18. | :45:18. | |
health service and I think we increase the overall budget by 50% | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
And it has continued to increase every year since. | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
I'm sorry, I don't think the health service feels it has and that is | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
Hang on, it doesn't feel as though it has? | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
I'm sorry, that trumps what is actually | :45:33. | :45:34. | |
Look, the stats are pretty clear on this... | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
The money is not adequate to cover what is actually being... | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
But you accept that has increased | :45:44. | :45:44. | |
I do not think it has increased enough over the year | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
because the predictable pressures of demographics... | :45:49. | :45:49. | |
This is what I mean by you always say it is not enough. | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
I am going to go back to Paul Carter for his last thought on this. | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
You told Caring Kent magazine recently | :45:57. | :45:57. | |
we need new ways of raising additional money | :45:58. | :45:59. | |
The Prime Minister has made it quite clear we need to | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
find new sustainable ways of funding social care. | :46:06. | :46:07. | |
Everybody talks about putting more money into social care, 70% of | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
individuals that need expensive social care interventions in this | :46:13. | :46:14. | |
county have to pay for it themselves. | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
So let's not skirt the issue, what are those new ways? | :46:18. | :46:20. | |
We have got to look at the Dilnot Review, | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
we've got to look at the | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
opportunity of bringing private insurance industry or a state funded | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
scheme, so the unfortunate 30% that need these | :46:33. | :46:34. | |
expensive interventions do not complete the -- deplete all their | :46:35. | :46:36. | |
hard earned wealth they have accumulated over a lifetime but we | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
have got to find, as good Conservatives, a system that helps | :46:43. | :46:51. | |
and supports everyone in the social care sphere | :46:52. | :46:53. | |
30, 40, ?50,000 worth of cost interventions... | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
Sorry, to be very specific, you have also mentioned | :46:57. | :46:58. | |
Is that where you would be to for more revenue? | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
Well, over the last two or three years we have seen the | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
foreign aid budget grow phenomenally and seen budgets to local | :47:09. | :47:10. | |
governments reduced, National Audit Office | :47:11. | :47:11. | |
I am a great supporter of the foreign | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
aid budgets but the growth has been absolutely phenomenal and we have | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
reduced the budget to local Government to help support the most | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
elderly and vulnerable in our communities. | :47:25. | :47:26. | |
Thank you very much indeed for joining us. | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
Paul Carter, leader Kent County Council. | :47:31. | :47:31. | |
Now, who doesn't like a cheeky gin and tonic once in a while? | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
It turned out that gin distilling business is | :47:35. | :47:36. | |
booming here in the south-east, with exports to Europe at | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
But is Brexit going to put that all on ice? | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
This gin made in Brighton is destined for Europe. | :47:43. | :47:54. | |
Incredible citrus and the Juniper coming | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
straight off it and served with a little wedge of orange. | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
Here we have a fantastic Brighton gin, definitely | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
Cathy Cayton, co-founder of Brighton Gin, | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
says that is an unquenchable thirst for the spirit around the world. | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
Three out of every four bottles of gin | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
Britain and the key driver is craft gins made | :48:18. | :48:25. | |
The gin trend has read to recognise and overseas sales and if | :48:26. | :48:32. | |
its popularity continues exports could reach ?0.5 billion | :48:33. | :48:34. | |
It is all happening just as Britain is about to leave the EU. | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
And with 55% of all British gin exported to the European Union | :48:42. | :48:48. | |
producers are concerned about how Brexit will affect EU trade. | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
It is a real British success story and we | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
are really looking to export this year, it is where we would like to | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
get out and shout about our amazing gin and I think there is the | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
uncertainty around what might happen and it is something that could | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
potentially put the handbrake on stuff for us and we really do not | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
A rise in duty of 43p per litre in this week's | :49:12. | :49:21. | |
budget was no tonic for the industry either at the time when leaders say | :49:22. | :49:24. | |
they need more Government commitment ahead had Brexit. | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
Including giving a British gin protected status to stop | :49:28. | :49:28. | |
We really could do with some support. | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
It is not just about low taxation, which we do not currently have, it | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
is about creating a better environment. | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
We have done very well with the British products | :49:45. | :49:46. | |
abroad and that is why we think we need better protection | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
for British gin as it becomes more of an | :49:50. | :49:51. | |
We think there will be a chance to do that as part of the Brexit | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
process when the great repeal bill goes through. | :49:57. | :50:03. | |
But it has to be done quickly or we will lose the advantage. | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
While gin is on the ascent, the region's Kentish ales | :50:07. | :50:08. | |
and sparkling wines are established export | :50:09. | :50:10. | |
products and as the gateway to Europe, the south-east is uniquely | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
Selling goods abroad is crucial to the economy of the south-east. | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
Last year the export market was worth ?40 | :50:17. | :50:18. | |
billion, more than any other part of the UK. | :50:19. | :50:29. | |
But if there is one thing that is not good | :50:30. | :50:31. | |
And future trade negotiations will take years. | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
UK Trade Policy Observatory, based at Sussex | :50:37. | :50:38. | |
University, is advising parliament about post-Brexit trade deals. | :50:39. | :50:40. | |
They say exporters could be in for a shock. | :50:41. | :50:42. | |
I think in the very short-term they probably will not | :50:43. | :50:44. | |
It will depend, in part, on whether we have the notorious hard Brexit | :50:45. | :50:53. | |
whether we have a deal in which things are | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
clearly negotiated and a | :50:59. | :50:59. | |
transitional arrangements in which new customs procedures | :51:00. | :51:00. | |
If there is it literally a hard Brexit where the | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
borders turn into international borders overnights, people are going | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
to be an extreme difficulty on that day. | :51:09. | :51:14. | |
The tipple once termed mother's ruin, may be the making of these | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
But can the Government ensure growth and | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
enterprise is not stifled by ponderous trade negotiations brought | :51:25. | :51:26. | |
On Daniel Hannan, Brighton gin want to tap into the lucrative European | :51:27. | :51:42. | |
markets. They feel uncertainty could markets. They feel uncertainty could | :51:43. | :51:50. | |
put a handbrake on growth plans. The timing is not great. They should not | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
feel uncertainty as I have not heard a single European politicians | :51:57. | :51:58. | |
suggest they are planning tariffs or trade barriers after Brexit. Unlike | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
in every other trade negotiation we are starting from a position of zero | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
tariffs and regulations. The inertia bias is working the other way. Where | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
they will have opportunities is not just in Europe but it is in South | :52:15. | :52:21. | |
America and Asia and the Middle East and Africa, all sorts of places | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
where it is a great brand, and some places there are already tariffs and | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
now we have control of our own trade policy we will have the opportunity | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
to reach new markets and those will be the growing markets. There will | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
be consequences for those already exporting if we come out of the | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
customs union, as is widely predicted, that will put burdens on | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
small companies dealing with administrative costs, developed | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
expertise in handling VAT declarations and customs duty | :52:55. | :52:55. | |
differently, and that will have an differently, and that will have an | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
impact on the supply chain. They already do that when they sailed to | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
Australia. But those currently selling to the EU -- selling to | :53:04. | :53:11. | |
Australia. If there are companies just selling to the EU at the more | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
they will find how easy it is. We're not in the 19th century when you | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
have a great customs checks, all of the custom stuff is done online in | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
advance and it is a very simple process. Steve can you see the | :53:27. | :53:35. | |
opportunities? I worry as there was a recent Lords report and Daniel is | :53:36. | :53:46. | |
Brexit idealist... Saw plenty of people. Daniel will only see the | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
upside. The trade industry is right to worry and we want to ensure we | :53:54. | :54:03. | |
have a successful export market for things like Brighton gin. What was | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
has been going on with the question back to Daniel Hannan, a lot of | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
small employers will of you national and the staff, what should they tell | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
them about the state is? Have not heard a single person say they will | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
not maintain their rights for people not maintain their rights for people | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
already in the UK. During the referendum campaign we always made | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
clear that any restrictions on immigration would only apply to | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
future rivals. Even Ukip said the same. But that has not been given | :54:37. | :54:42. | |
no. I do not see how we can say get any more clearly. They do not need | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
to worry. Every day of the week at some stage hard questions are asked | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
of ministers and the Lords and they cannot give the clarity you'd | :54:53. | :55:00. | |
trumpet and that is deeply worrying to the harbour many million you | :55:01. | :55:02. | |
national in our country and they feel very nervous. We're not Burma, | :55:03. | :55:10. | |
for heaven 's sake. I would love to still give people the opportunity to | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
see some of the other news you may have missed here it is, 60 seconds. | :55:14. | :55:20. | |
Conservative MPs have expressed anger after Mid Sussex district | :55:21. | :55:22. | |
councils order to build thousands of extra homes on rural land. | :55:23. | :55:31. | |
It has raised concerns that Ashdown Forest, | :55:32. | :55:33. | |
known as the home of Winnie the Pooh, | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
could bear the brunt of the | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
new development and the council was told by the planning Inspectorate to | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
build almost 4000 more houses in the next 15 years. | :55:43. | :55:44. | |
Everybody accepts the need for more houses but we do not have the | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
infrastructure or the countryside to sustain a level of housing which he | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
It has been revealed the Dartford Crossing, | :55:53. | :55:54. | |
one of the busiest sections of road in the country, was | :55:55. | :55:57. | |
classed by the Government as a rural road until two years ago. | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
Air pollution in the area regularly exceeds the safe limit, and the area | :56:03. | :56:05. | |
error means that these levels of pollution have been routinely | :56:06. | :56:08. | |
And the controversial scheme to sell off parts of the | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
South Downs will not go ahead after residents overwhelmingly voted | :56:12. | :56:13. | |
Eastbourne Borough Council planned to put 3000 acre is | :56:14. | :56:16. | |
up for sale to cope with budget cuts. | :56:17. | :56:28. | |
Also this week Steve Bassam you have been in the news with his story | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
about bringing a Serbian refugees to live in your home. What has the | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
response been -- -- Sirion. It is nearly all been positive. I have | :56:42. | :56:48. | |
learned a lot more about Syrian culture and I understand their | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
problems better. Very nice to have you with us today. That is all we | :56:54. | :57:00. | |
have time for today. Thank you to our guests. Natalie is back next | :57:01. | :57:01. | |
week with Now the government plans for new | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
grammar schools. The Education Secretary | :57:05. | :57:19. | |
Justine Greening was speaking to a conference | :57:20. | :57:20. | |
of headteachers on Friday. They're normally a pretty polite | :57:21. | :57:22. | |
bunch, but they didn't Broadcasters weren't | :57:23. | :57:24. | |
allowed into the speech, but this was captured | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
on a camera phone. And we have to recognise actually | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
for grammars, in terms of disadvantaged children, | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
that they have, they really do help them close | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
the attainment gap. And at the same time | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
we should recognise that ..That parents also want choice | :57:46. | :57:47. | |
for their children and that those schools are often | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
very oversubscribed. I suppose it is a rite of passage | :57:55. | :58:09. | |
for and education secretaries to have this at a head teachers | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
conference book the head are usually more polite. Isn't part of the | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
problem, whether one is for or against the expansion of grammar | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
schools, the government plans are complicated, you cannot sum them up | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
in a sentence. The proof of that is they can still get away with denying | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
they are expanding grammar schools. They will find an alternative | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
formulation because it is not as simple as a brute creation of what | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
we used to know is grammar schools with the absolute cut-off of the 11 | :58:40. | :58:45. | |
plus. I am surprised how easy they found it politically. We saw the | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
clip of Justine Greening being jeered a little bit but in the grand | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
scheme, compared to another government trying this idea a decade | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
ago they have got away with it easily and I think what is happening | :58:58. | :59:02. | |
is a perverse consequence of Brexit and the media attention on Brexit, | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
the government of the day can just about get away with slightly more | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
contentious domestic policies on the correct assumption we will be too | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
busy investing our attention in Article 50 and two years of | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
negotiations, WTO terms at everything we have been discussing. | :59:20. | :59:25. | |
I wonder if after grammar schools there will be examples of | :59:26. | :59:27. | |
contentious domestic policies Theresa May can slide in stock | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
because Brexit sucks the life out, takes the attention away. You are a | :59:33. | :59:40. | |
supporter. Broadly. Are you happy with the government approach? They | :59:41. | :59:47. | |
need to have more gumption and stop being apologetic. It is a bazaar | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
area of public policy where we judge the policy on grammar schools based | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
on what it does for children whose parents are unemployed, living on | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
sink estates in Liverpool. It is absurd, we don't judge any other | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
policy like that. It is simple, not contentious, people who are not | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
sure, ask them if they would apply to send their child there, six out | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
of ten said they would. Parents want good schools for their children, we | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
should have appropriate education and they should be straightforward, | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
this is about the future of the economy and we need bright children | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
to get education at the highest level, education for academically | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
bright children. It is supposed to be a signature policy of the Theresa | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
May administration that marks a government different from David | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
Cameron's government who did not go down this road. The signature is | :00:41. | :00:41. | |
pretty blurred, it is hard to read. It is. She is trying to address | :00:42. | :00:51. | |
concerns about those who fail to get into these selective schools and | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
tried to targeted in poorer areas and the rest of it. She will | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
probably come across so many obstacles. It is not clear what form | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
it will take in the end. It is really an example of a signature | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
policy not fully thought through. I think it was one of her first | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
announcements. It was. It surprised everybody. Surprised at the speed | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
and pace at which they were planning to go. Ever since, there have been | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
qualifications and hesitations en route with good cause, in my view. I | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
disagree with Juliet that this is... We all want good schools but if you | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
don't get in there and you end up in a less good school. They already do | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
that. We have selection based on the income of parents getting into a | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
good catchment area, based on the faith of the parents. That becomes | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
very attainable! I might been too shot run christenings for these. -- | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
I have been. Now, you may remember this time last | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
week we were talking about the extraordinary claims by US | :01:47. | :01:48. | |
President Donald Trump, on Twitter of course, | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
that Barack Obama had ordered And there was me thinking | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
that wiretaps went out Is it legal for a sitting | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
President to do so, he asked, concluding it was a "new low", | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
and later comparing it to Watergate. Since then, the White House has been | :02:02. | :02:10. | |
pressed to provide evidence for this It hasn't, but it seems it may have | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
initially come from a report on a US website by the former Conservative | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
MP Louise Mensch. She wrote that the FBI had been | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
granted a warrant to intercept communications between Trump's | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
campaign and Russia. Well, Louise Mensch joins | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
us now from New York. Louise, you claimed in early | :02:33. | :02:45. | |
November that the FBI had secured a court warrants to monitor | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
communications between trump Tower in New York at two Russian banks. | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
It's now four months later. Isn't it the case that nobody has proved the | :02:55. | :02:55. | |
existence of this warrant? First of all, forgive me Andrew, one | :02:56. | :03:05. | |
takes 1's life in one's hand when it is you but I have to correct your | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
characterisation of my reporting. It is very important. I did not report | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
that the FBI had a warrant to intercept anything or that Trump | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
tower was any part of it. What I reported was that the FBI obtained a | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
warrant is targeted on all communications between two Russian | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
banks and were, therefore, allowed to examine US persons in the context | :03:27. | :03:33. | |
of their investigation. What the Americans call legally incidental | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
collection. I certainly didn't report that the warrant was able to | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
intercept or that it had location basis, for example Trump tower. I | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
just didn't report that. The reason that matters so much is that I now | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
believe based on the President's reaction, there may well be a | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
wiretap act Trump Tower. If so, Donald Trump has just tweeted out | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
evidence in an ongoing criminal case that neither I nor anybody else | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
reported. He is right about Watergate because he will have | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
committed obstruction of justice directly from his Twitter account. | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
Let me come back as thank you for clarifying. Let me come back to the | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
question. -- and thank you. We have not yet got proof that this warrant | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
exists, do we? No and we are most unlikely to get it because it would | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
be a heinous crime for Donald Trump to reveal its existence. In America | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
they call it a Glomar response. I can neither confirm nor deny. That | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
is what all American officials will have to say legally. If you are | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
looking for proof, you won't get it until and unless a court cases | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
brought. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The BBC validated | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
this two months after me in their reporting by the journalist Paul | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
Wood. The Guardian, they also separately from their own sources | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
validated the existence of the warrant. If you are in America, you | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
would know that CNN and others are reporting that the investigation in | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
ongoing. Let me come onto the wider point. You believe the Trump | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
campaign including the president were complicit with the Russians | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
during the 2016 election campaign to such an extent that Mr Trump should | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
be impeached. What evidence did you have? | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
That is an enormous amount of evidence. You could start with him | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
saying, hey, Russia, if you are listening, please release all the | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
Hillary Clinton's e-mails. That's not evidence. I think it rather is, | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
actually. Especially if you look at some of the evidence that exists on | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
Twitter and elsewhere of people talking directly to his social media | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
manager, Dan should be no and telling him to do that before it | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
happened. There is a bit out there. The BBC itself reported that in | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
April of last year, a six agency task force, not just the FBI, but | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
the Treasury Department, was looking at this. I believe there is an | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
enormous amount of evidence. And then there is the steel dossier | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
which was included in an official report of the US intelligence | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
committee. You've also ... Just to be clear, we don't have hard | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
evidence yet whether this warrant exists. It may or may not. There is | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
doubt about... There are claims about whether there is evidence | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
about Mr Trump and the Russians. That is another matter. You claimed | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
that President Putin had Andrew Breitbart murdered to pave the way | :06:27. | :06:33. | |
for Steve Bannon to play a key role in the Trump administration. I | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
haven't. You said that Steve Bannon is behind bomb threats to Jewish | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
community centres. Aren't you in danger of just peddling wild | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
conspiracy theories? No. Festival, I haven't. No matter how many times | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
people say this, it's not going to be true -- first of all. I said in | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
twitter I believe that to be the case about the murder of Andrew | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
Breitbart. You believe President Putin murdered him. I didn't! You | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
said I reported it, but I believed it. You put it on twitter that you | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
believed it but you don't have a shred of evidence. I do. Indeed, I | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
know made assertions. What is the evidence that Mr Putin murdered | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
Andrew Breitbart? I said I believe it. You may believe there are | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
fairies at the bottom of your garden, it doesn't make it true. I | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
may indeed. And if I say so, that's my belief. If I say I am reporting, | :07:29. | :07:36. | |
as I did with the Fisa warrant exists, I have a basis in fact. They | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
believe is just a belief. I know you are relatively new to journalism. | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
Let me get the rules right. Andrew, jealousy is not your colour... If it | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
is twitter, we don't believe it but if it is on your website, we should | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
believe it? If I report something and I say this happened, then I am | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
making an assertion. If I describe a belief, I am describing a belief. | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
Subtlety may be a little difficult for you... No, no. If you want to be | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
a journalist, beliefs have to be backed up with evidence. Really? Do | :08:12. | :08:19. | |
you have a faith? It's not a matter of faith, maybe in your case, that | :08:20. | :08:21. | |
President Putin murdered Andrew Breitbart. A belief and a report at | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
two different things and no matter how often you say that they are the | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
same, they will never be the same. You've said in today's Sunday Times | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
here in London that you've turned into" a temporary superpower" where | :08:37. | :08:45. | |
you "See things really clearly". Have you become delusional? No. I am | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
describing a biological basis for ADHD, which I have. As any of your | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
viewers who are doctors will know. It provides people with | :08:57. | :08:58. | |
unfortunately a lot of scattered focus, they are very messy and | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
absent-minded but when they are interested in things and they have | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
ADHD they can have a condition which is hyper focus. You concentrate very | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
hard on a given subject and you can see patterns and connections. That | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
is biological. Thank you for explaining that. And for getting up | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
early in New York. The first time ever I have interviewed a temporary | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
superpower. Thank you. You are so lucky! You are so lucky! I don't | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
think it's going to happen again. Please don't ask us to comment on | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
that interview! I will not ask you, viewers will make up their own | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
minds. Let's come back to be more mundane world of Article 50. Stop | :09:39. | :09:39. | |
the killing! Will it get through at the | :09:40. | :09:47. | |
government wanted it? Without the Lords amendment falling by the way | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
that? I am sure the Lord will not try to ping-pong this back and | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
forth. So we are at the end of this particular legislative phase. The | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
fact that all three Brexit Cabinet ministers, number ten often don't | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
like one of them going out on a broadcast interview on a Sunday, | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
they've all been out and about. That suggests to me they are working on | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
the assumption it will be triggered this week. This week. The | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
negotiations will begin or at least the process begins. The negotiation | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
process may be difficult, given all of the European elections. The Dutch | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
this week. And then the French and maybe the Italians and certainly the | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
Germans by the end of September, which is less predictable than it | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
was. Given all that, what did you make of Anna Soubry's claim, Viacom | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
on her part, that we may just end up crashing out in six months question | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
-- fear on her part. It was not just that that we made that deliberately | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
organising. I want us to get on with the deals. | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
Everyone knows a good deal is the best option. Who knows what is going | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
to be on the table when we finally go out? Fascinatingly, the demand | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
for some money back, given the amount of money... Net gains and net | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
costs in terms of us leaving for the EU. It is all to play for. That will | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
be a possible early grounds for a confrontation between the UK and the | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
EU. My understanding is that they expect to do a deal on reciprocal | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
rights of EU nationals, EU nationals here, UK citizens there, quite | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
quickly. They want to clear that up and that will be done. Then they | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
will hit this problem that the EU will be saying you've got to agree | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
the divorce Bill first before we talk about the free trade bill. | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
David Davis saying quite clearly, no, they go together because of the | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
size of the bill. It will be determined, in our part, by how good | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
the access will be. The mutual recognition of EU residents' rights | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
is no trouble. A huge amount of fuss is attracted to that subject but it | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
is the easiest thing to deal with, as is free movement for tourists. | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
Money is what will make it incredibly acrimonious. Incredibly | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
quickly. I imagine the dominant story in the summer will be all | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
about that. This was Anna Soubry's implication, members of the | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
governors could strongly argue, things are so poisonous and so | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
unpleasant at the moment, the dealers are advancing -- members of | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
the government. Why not call it a day and go out on WTO terms while | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
public opinion is still in that direction in that Eurosceptic | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
direction? No buyers' remorse about last year's referendum. The longer | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
they leave it, view more opportunity there is for some kind of public | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
resistance and change of mind to take place. The longer believe it, | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
the more people who voted for Brexit and people who voted Remain and | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
think we didn't get world War three will start being quite angry with | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
the EU for not agreeing a deal. In terms of the rights of EU nationals | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
he and Brits abroad, by all accounts, 26 of the 27 have agreed | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
individually. Angela Merkel is the only person who has held that up. | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
That will be dealt with in a matter of days. The chances of a deal being | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
done is likely but in ten seconds... It would not be a bad bet to protect | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
your on something not happening, you might get pretty good odds? The odds | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
are going up that a deal doesn't happen. But, as I said earlier, the | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
House of Commons will not endorse no deal. We are either in an early | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
election or she has to go back again. Either way, you will need us! | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
We will be back at noon tomorrow on BBC Two ahead of what looks like | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
being a big week in politics. We will be back here same time, same | :13:30. | :13:30. | |
place. Remember, if it's Sunday, | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:34. | :13:38. |