Browse content similar to 19/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence, | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects. | :00:41. | :00:53. | |
With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election, | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live. | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket, | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
unless hospitals are given more cash this year. | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
In the south-west, is it a fail for Providers joins me live. | :01:11. | :01:21. | |
In the south-west, is it a fail for fairer school funding? And anything | :01:22. | :01:23. | |
less than All that to come before 12:15pm, | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
and I'll also be talking to the former leader | :01:26. | :01:35. | |
of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg from his party's spring | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
conference in York. With me here in the studio, | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
throughout the programme, three of the country's top political | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
commentators: Tom Newton Dunn, | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. They'll be tweeting their | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
thoughts using #bbcsp. So, the political challenges facing | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
Theresa May are stacking up. As well as negotiating | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
Britain's exit from the EU, the PM must now deal with SNP | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
demands for a second referendum on Scottish independence, | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
backbenchers agitating against cuts to school budgets, and a humiliated | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key budget measure just one week | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
after announcing it. Here's Adam Fleming | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
on aturbulent political week Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
in the residence of the First Minister of Scotland, | :02:22. | :02:38. | |
who's got a surprise. She wants a vote on whether Scotland | :02:39. | :02:39. | |
should leave the UK By taking the steps I have set out | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
today I am ensuring that Scotland's future will be decided, | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
not just by me, the Scottish Government, | :02:48. | :02:49. | |
or the SNP, it will be decided | :02:50. | :02:50. | |
by the people of Scotland. Westminster, 6:25pm | :02:51. | :02:52. | |
the same day, MPs reject amendments to the legislation | :02:53. | :03:02. | |
authorising the Prime Minister to The Bill ceremonially heads | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
to the Lords where peers abandoned attempts to change it | :03:07. | :03:20. | |
and it becomes law. But Downing Street doesn't trigger | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
Article 50 as many had expected. Some say they were spooked | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
by Nicola Sturgeon. We get an e-mail from | :03:30. | :03:31. | |
the Treasury can the We get an e-mail from | :03:32. | :03:48. | |
the Treasury cancelling the planned rise in | :03:49. | :03:49. | |
National Insurance for the self-employed | :03:50. | :04:01. | |
announced the budget. It's just minutes before | :04:02. | :04:02. | |
Prime Minister's Questions at noon. The trend towards greater | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
self-employment does create a We will bring forward | :04:05. | :04:06. | |
further proposals but we will not bring forward | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
increases to NICs later in this It seems to me like a government | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
in a bit of chaos here. By making this change today | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
we are listening to our colleagues fulfil both the letter | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
and the spirit of our manifesto tax Thursday, 7am, Conservative | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
campaign HQ and the Electoral Commission fines the party | :04:23. | :04:32. | |
?70,000 for misreporting spending But that's not what | :04:33. | :04:34. | |
the Prime Minister Because at 12:19pm she | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
gives her verdict on a We should be working | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
together, not pulling apart. We should be working | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
together to get that right deal for Scotland, | :04:49. | :04:50. | |
that So, as I say, that's my job | :04:51. | :04:51. | |
as Prime Minister and so for that reason I say to the SNP | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
now is not the time. Friday and time for | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
the faithful to gather. SNP activists at their | :05:01. | :05:02. | |
spring conference Conservatives in Cardiff | :05:03. | :05:04. | |
to hear the Prime Minister promote her plan for a more | :05:05. | :05:14. | |
meritocratic Brexit Britain. At 11:10am comes some news | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
about a newspaper that's frankly I'm thrilled and excited to be | :05:19. | :05:20. | |
the new editor of The Evening Standard and, | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
you know, with so many big issues in our world | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
what good analysis, great news | :05:30. | :05:31. | |
journalism. It's a really important time | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
for good journalism that The Evening Standard | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
is going to provide. There was no let-up yesterday | :05:42. | :05:43. | |
as Gordon Brown launched proposals Under my proposals | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
we keep the Barnett Formula, we keep the fiscal | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
transfers, but we also bring the and fisheries back to the Scottish | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
Parliament. And just think, all this and we're | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
still counting down to the What a week in politics. It has been | :06:04. | :06:22. | |
a torrid week for the government, Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
May shake it off, or is this a sign of worse to come? We may all be | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
feeling a bit breathless after the events of last week and we are in | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
for a a long war of attrition with the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
will be to foster over lengthy periods of time as much resentment | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
and anger as she can in Scotland and try to create the impression that | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
independence is somehow inevitable. Is Scotland the biggest challenge | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
for Theresa May in the next year or so? I think it probably is because | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
if you look at how relatively easily the Brexit bill went through on an | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
issue where people could hardly feel more passionate in the Commons, and | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
actually despite all the potential drama it has gone through quite | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
smoothly. To go back to your original question, she just carries | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
on. Don't underestimate the basic quiet and will towards Theresa May | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
amongst the majority of Tory backbenchers. Yes, there are | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
difficult little issues over school funding, sorry, it's not a little | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
issue, it is a big one but she will get over that and treat each thing | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
as it comes and keep pressing on. Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
Bluff in that the First Minister said I want a referendum, here is | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
roughly when I wanted, the Prime Minister says you're not having one. | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
What happens next? She has done quite well and impact the progress | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
Theresa May made this week in frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
evident when Nicola Sturgeon said, OK, maybe we can talk about the | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has already been the first one to blink. | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
I would slightly disagree with Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
Scotland will be the biggest hurdle for her. What this week showed as is | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
Theresa May... It was a reality bites week. Theresa May is juggling | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
four mammoth crises at the same time, Brexit obviously which I still | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
think will be the biggest challenge to get a good deal, Trump left field | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and Scotland and the fiscal challenge, | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
this enormous great problem, and it reinforced the point this is not an | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
easy time in politics. The budget is over four years. That was one small | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
problem, the immediate problem is how to fill the social care crisis | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
and the ageing demographic. This is not normal times in British politics | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
and Theresa May does not have a normal workload on her plate, hence | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
why I think we will see more mistakes made as time goes on and as | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
she has this almost impossible workload to juggle. How tempted do | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
you think the Prime Minister is to call an early election? There is | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
more chatter about it now. Is she tempted and if there is will she | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
succumb? I will answer that in a second as Harold Wilson used to say. | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
I want to agree, disagree with the rest of the panel about how she has | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this week. I think Nicola Sturgeon | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
expected Theresa May to say no to her expected timetable. It would be | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
amazing if she had said yes. She expected her to say no but Sturgeon | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
catalyst that will fuel support for her cause. There is no sign of that. | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
The latest poll this morning shows 66-44 against independence and only | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
13% think they would be better off with an independent Scotland and a | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
clear majority do not want a second referendum. But the calculation of | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
resistance from Westminster combined with Brexit which hasn't started | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
yet, I think this is her calculation, she didn't expect | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead, I'm sure she expected Theresa May to | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
say no, you can't have it at your desired timetable. On the wider | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
point, I think Theresa May is in a fascinating position, she is both | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
strong because she faces weak opposition and is ahead in the | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
opinion polls. But faces the most daunting agenda of any Prime | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
Minister for 40 or 50 years, I think. So it's a weird combination. | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
I don't think she wants to call an election. I don't think she has | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
thought about how you would manipulate it, what the trigger | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
would be, and whether she's got the energy and space to prepare for and | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
then mount a campaign was beginning the Brexit negotiation. Now, you | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
could see the cause would be the small majorities that will make her | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
life hellish, which it will do. Whether a landslide would help is | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
another question, they can be difficult too. But I think the | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
problems outweigh the advantages of going early. Do you think she would | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
go for an early election? I don't and I think you have to look at the | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
rhetoric coming out of No 10 which is so firm on this question, it is a | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
delicious prospect for us as commentators to think there might be | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
an election around the corner but they are so firm on this I can't see | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
it happening. I agree, we are in unanimous agreement on this one. It | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
is superficially attractive because she would love the big majority and | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
she would get a lot more through Parliament especially with Brexit. | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
The nitty-gritty of it makes an early General Election this year | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
almost impossible. How do you write a manifesto on high Brexit versus | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's box of uncertainties. And there is | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
enough with the European elections. The EU will say are we negotiating | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
with you or the person who may replace you? How do you keep the | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
Tory party united going to an election? How do you call one, with | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
a vote of no confidence in yourself you may end up losing. Easy on paper | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
but difficult in practice. We shall see. | :11:45. | :11:45. | |
So if Theresa May did go for an early election this spring, | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
The party's campaigns and elections chief Andrew Gwynne | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we have just been talking about, | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
executed one of the most embarrassing U-turns in recent | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
history this week. It has been a torrid time for the Theresa May | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
government. Why are the Tories still so chipper? | :12:09. | :12:10. | |
The Labour Party has been on an early election footing since before | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
Christmas and we are preparing ourselves for that eventuality in | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
case that does come. That means that we've got to get ourselves into a | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
position whereby we can not only challenge the government but we can | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
also offer a valuable alternative for the British people to choose | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
from should that election arise. So, would you welcome an early General | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
Election? Well, of course, I don't want this government to be in power | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
so of course if there is an opportunity to put a case to the | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
British people as to why there is a better way, and I believe the Labour | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
way is the better way than of course we would want to put that case to | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
the country. So, would Labour vote in the Commons for an early | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
election? Well, of course as an opposition, not wanting to be in | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
opposition, wanting to be in government should the government put | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
forward a measure in accordance with the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
that's something we would very seriously have to consider. I know | :13:13. | :13:14. | |
you would have to consider it but would you vote for an early election | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
or not? Well, of course we want to be the government so if the current | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
government puts forward measures to bring forward a General Election we | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
would want to put our case to the British public and that's one of the | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
jobs that I've been given, together Labour Party organisation early into | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
a position where we can fight a General Election -- | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
organisationally. For the avoidance of doubt, if the Government work to | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
issue a motion in the Commons for an early election, the Labour Party | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
would vote for an early election? It would be very difficult not, | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
Andrew. If the Government wants to dissolve parliament, wants a General | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
Election, we don't want the Tories in government, we want to be in | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
government and we want to have that opportunity to put that case to the | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
British people. Are you ready for an early election? | :14:02. | :14:11. | |
You say you have been on a war all but since the Labour conference last | :14:12. | :14:13. | |
autumn, but are you ready for one? How big is the election fighting | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
fund? We have substantial amounts of money in our fighting fund, that is | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
true, because not only has the Labour Party managed to eliminate | :14:20. | :14:27. | |
its own financial deficit that it inherited from previous election | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
campaigns, we have also managed to build up a substantial fund in the | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
off chance we have an election. We have also expanded massively | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
operations at Labour HQ, we are taking on additional staff, and one | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
of the jobs that myself and Ian Lavery who I job share with are | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
currently doing is to go around the Parliamentary Labour Party to make | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
sure that Labour colleagues have the support and the resources that they | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
need, should they have to face the electorate in their constituencies. | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
So you are on a war footing, ready for the fight, you say you would | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
vote for the fight, so have you got your tax and spend policies ready to | :15:06. | :15:12. | |
roll out? That is something the shadow Treasury team will be | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
discussing. One of the things is, if there is an early General Election, | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
the normal timetable for these things gets fast-track because our | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
policy decision-making body, its annual conference, we have the | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
national policy forum that creates policies suggestions. You have been | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
on a war footing since the last Labour conference, that is what Mr | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
Corbyn told us. So you must have a fair idea of what policies you would | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
fight an early election on. How much extra per year would you spend on | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going to set out the Labour manifesto for | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
an election that hasn't been called. I'm just asking you about the NHS. | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
You must have a policy for that. We have a policy for the NHS. So how | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
much extra? I will not set out Labour's tax-and-spend policies here | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
on The Sunday Politics when there hasn't even been election called. | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
You said you had been on a war footing and you are prepared to vote | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
for one, so if you can't Tommy that, can you tell me what the corporation | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
rate tax on company profits be under a Labour government -- tell me that. | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
You will have to be patient. I have. And wait for Mrs May to trigger an | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
early election. If there is an election on the 4th of May the rich | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
would have to be issued on the 27th of March, so that's not long to | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
wait. If that date passes we aren't having an election on the 4th of May | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
and the normal timetable for policy development will continue. All | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
right. You lost Copeland, I think you were in charge of a by-election | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
for Labour, your national poll ratings are still dire, even after | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
week of terrible times for the Tories. Sometimes you even lose | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
local government by-elections in safe seats, including in the place | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
you are now, in Salford. How long does Mr Corbyn have to turn this | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
around? Well, look, the issue of the Labour leadership was settled last | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
year. The last thing the Labour Party now needs is another period of | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
introspection with the Labour Party merely talks to the Labour Party. We | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
are now on an election footing in case Mrs May does trigger an early | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
General Election. We need to be talking to the British people are | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
not to ourselves. So any speculation about the Labour leadership might | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
excite you in the media but actually for us in the Labour Party it's | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
about re-engaging and reconnecting with the voters. Rather than being | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
excited, I feel quite daunted at the prospect of an early election. So I | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
wouldn't get that right. Normally, given the number of mistakes this | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
government has made, and its mid-term, you would expect any | :17:54. | :17:55. | |
self-respecting opposition to be about ten points ahead. On the | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
latest polls this morning you are 17 behind. There is a 27-30 point gap | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
from where you should normally be as an opposition. Are you telling me | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
that if that doesn't change, you still fight the General Election | :18:12. | :18:12. | |
with Mr Corbyn? These are matters for the future. I | :18:13. | :18:22. | |
believe the leadership issue was settled last year. We have had two | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
leadership contest in two years. Would you seriously contemplate | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
going into the next election, if it is early I perfectly understand | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it is not until 2020, and you are still | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
17 points behind in the polls, will you go into the next election like | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
that? There is a lot of future looking and speculation there, I | :18:47. | :18:55. | |
don't know what the future holds, where the Labour Party will be in 12 | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
months let alone by 2020 summit cross those bridges when we come to | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
it. My main challenge is to make sure the Labour Party is in the best | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
possible place organisationally to fight an election, that's my | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
challenge and I'm up for that to make sure we are in the best | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
possible place to make sure Labour returns as many Labour MPs as | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
possible. Thank you for joining us. And we're joined now | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
from the Liberal Democrats' spring conference in York by the former | :19:22. | :19:23. | |
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. Good morning. In his conference | :19:24. | :19:33. | |
speech today, Tim Farron lumps Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In what way is Mrs May similar to | :19:37. | :19:46. | |
Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not saying Theresa May is identical to | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim Wilby spelling out shortly in his | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
speech is that we need to be aware what's going on in the world, the | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
International settlement that was arrived at after the First World -- | :19:59. | :20:08. | |
Second World War, that bound supranational organisations is under | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
attack from characters as diverse as Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
Donald Trump, and that by side in so ostentatiously with Donald Trump and | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
pursuing this very hard Brexit, Theresa May appears to be giving | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
succour to that much more isolationist chauvinist view of the | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
world than the multilateral approach that Britain has subscribed to for a | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
long time. The exact words he plans to use are welcome to the New World | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU, nationalistic. In what way is Mrs | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
May fitting into any of that? In what way is she similar to Vladimir | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
Putin? I'm not aware she has interfered with other people's | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
elections. The clue is in the quote you just read out, which is the | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
world order. The world order over the last half century or more, by | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
the way a lesson I'm afraid we have to learn in Europe because of the | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
terrible bloodshed of two world was in the space of a few decades, was | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
based on the idea might is not right. Strong arm leaders cannot | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
throw their weight around. What we have now with Putin, the populism | :21:28. | :21:36. | |
across parts of Europe and Donald Trump who thinks the EU will unravel | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
is a shift to a radically different view of the world. Mrs May doesn't | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
think any of that. She is not antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
wants the EU to succeed. She's not aggressive as far as I'm aware so | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
I'm not sure why you would lump the British Prime Minister in with these | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
other characters. Let me explain, by choosing this uncompromising | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
approach to Brexit, clearly in doing so she, in my view, maybe not yours | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
or others, is pursuing a self harming approach to the United | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
Kingdom but also pulling up the threads that bind the rest of the | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
European Union together, in so ostentatiously siding with Donald | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
Trump, somehow declaring in my view speciously that we can make up with | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
the trade we will lose, she's not challenging the shift to a more | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
chauvinist approach to world affairs that is happening in many places. | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
You are at your party's Spring conference, I think we can agree any | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
Lib Dem come back will take a long time. Would Tory dominance be more | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
effectively challenged by a realignment of the centre and the | :22:58. | :22:59. | |
centre-left? Are you working towards that? I missed half the question but | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
I think you are talking about a realignment. As a cook a way to get | :23:06. | :23:12. | |
over Tory dominance, would you want that to happen? Are you working | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
towards that? My view is the recovery of the Lib Dems will be | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
quicker than you suggest. People often forget that even the low point | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
of our fortunes in the last election we still got a million more votes | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
than the SNP, it's only because we have got this crazy electoral | :23:32. | :23:40. | |
system... But the SNP fight in Scotland, you fight in the whole | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
country! But I'm saying the way seats are allocated overlooks the | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
fact that 2.5 million still voted for us. But my own view is of course | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
there are people feeling increasingly homeless in the liberal | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
wing of the Conservative Party because they are now in a party | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
which is in effect indistinguishable from Ukip on some of the biggest | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
issues of the day, and homeless folk on the rational, reasonable wing of | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
the Labour Party. I would invite them to join the Liberal Democrats | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
and I would invite everyone across parties to talk about the idea is | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
that bind us because the Westminster village can invest a lot of energy | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
building new castles in the sky, inventing new names for parties when | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
actually what you want is for people on the progressive centre ground of | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
British politics to talk about the ideas that unite them, from the | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
dilemmas of artificial intelligence to climate change. Do you think in | :24:48. | :24:54. | |
your own view, can Brexit still be thwarted or is it now a matter of | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
getting the best terms? I think we are in an interlude, almost a calm | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
between two storms, the storm of the referendum itself and the collision | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
between the Government's stated ambitions for Brexit and the reality | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
of having to negotiate something unworkable with 27 other | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
governments. The one thing I can guarantee you is that what the | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
Government has promised to the British people cannot happen. Over a | :25:23. | :25:35. | |
slower period of time we will work out our new relationship with the | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
European Union. Theresa May said she will settle divorce arrangements, | :25:40. | :25:46. | |
and pensions, so one, negotiate new trade agreements, new climate change | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
policies and so on, and have all of that ratified within two years, that | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
will not happen so I think there will be a lot of turbulence in the | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
next couple of years. Will you use this turbulence to try to thwart | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
Brexit, to find a way of rolling back the decision? It's not about | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
repeating the debates of the past or thwarting the will of the people but | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
it is comparing what people were promised from the ?350 million for | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
the NHS every week through to this glittering array of new trade | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
agreements we will sign across the world, with the reality that will | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
transpire in the next couple of years and at that point, yes it is | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
my belief people should be able to take a second look at if that is | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
what they really want. A couple of quick questions, would you welcome | :26:40. | :26:47. | |
an early general election? I always welcome them, we couldn't do worse | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
than we did last time. That is certainly true. You have a column in | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
the Evening Standard, have you spoken to the new editor about | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
whether he will keep your column or spike it? No, I wait in nervous | :27:01. | :27:09. | |
anticipation. Can you be a newspaper editor in the morning and an MP in | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
the afternoon? Do I think that's feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
There is no prohibition, no law against MPs being editors. They have | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
been in the past and no doubt will again in the future. He is taking a | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
lot on, he is an editor, also wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
academic in the States, working in the city, I suspect something will | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
give. It seems to me even by his self-confidence standards in his own | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
abilities I suspect he is taking on a little bit too much. Very | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you will get to keep the column. Thanks | :27:54. | :27:55. | |
for joining us. Now, for the last six months | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
England's NHS bosses have been warning the health service needs | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
more money to help it meet But in his first Budget, | :28:03. | :28:04. | |
the Chancellor offered no immediate relief, | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
and today the head of the organisation representing | :28:08. | :28:09. | |
England's NHS trusts says hundreds of thousands of patients will have | :28:10. | :28:11. | |
to wait longer for both emergency care and planned operations, | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
unless the Government Warnings over funding | :28:15. | :28:16. | |
are not exactly new. Back in 2014 the head of the NHS | :28:17. | :28:23. | |
in England, Simon Stevens, published his plan for the future | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
of the health service. In his five-year forward view, | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
Stevens said the NHS in England would face a funding shortfall of up | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
to ?30 billion by 2020. To bridge that gap he said the NHS | :28:35. | :28:37. | |
would need more money from the Government, | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
at least ?8 billion extra, and that the health service | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
could account for the rest by making The Government says it's given | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
the health service more than what it asked for, and that NHS | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
in England will have received That number is disputed by NHS | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
managers and the chair of Parliament's health committee, | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
who say the figure is more like ?4.5 billion, while other parts | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
of the health and social care budget have been cut, putting | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
pressure on the front line. Last year, two thirds of NHS | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
trusts in England finished the year in the red, | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
and despite emergency bailouts from the Government, | :29:17. | :29:18. | |
the NHS is likely to record Meanwhile national targets | :29:19. | :29:20. | |
on waiting times for A departments, diagnostic tests, | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
and operations are being This month's Budget provided | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
?2 billion for social care but there was no new cash | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
for the NHS, leading trusts to warn that patient care is beginning | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
to suffer, and what is being asked And I'm joined now by | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
the Chief Executive of NHS Providers in England, | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
Chris Hopson. Welcome to the programme. Morning, | :29:49. | :29:59. | |
Andrew. I will come onto the extra money you need to do your job | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
properly in a minute but first, part of the deal was you had to make 22 | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
billion in efficiency savings, not a bank that money but spend it on | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
patient care, the front line, and so on. How is that going? So, last | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
parliament we realised around 18 billion of productivity and | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
efficiency savings, we are realising more this year so we are on course | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
to realise 3 billion this year, that is a quarter of a billion more than | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
last year but all of us in the NHS knew the 22 billion would be a very | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
stretching target and we are somewhat inevitably falling short. | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
So it is 22 billion by 2,020. Roughly. That was the time. We are | :30:37. | :30:47. | |
now into 2017. So how much of the 22 billion have you achieved? We | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
realised around 3 billion last year and we will realise 3 billion this | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
year, Court of billion more, 3.25 billion this year, so we are on | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the 2021 period? You are not that far | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
away. The problem is the degree to which demand is going up. We have | :31:07. | :31:09. | |
record demand over the winter period and that actually meant we have seen | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
more people than we have ever seen before but performance is still | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
under real pressure. Let me come onto that. When you agreed on the 22 | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
billion efficiency savings plus some extra money from the government, I | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
know there is a bit of an argument about how much that is actually | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
worth, had you not factored in this extra demand that you saw coming | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
over the next three or four years? Let's be very clear committee | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
referred to Simon Stevens's forward view and we signed up to it but the | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
22 billion was a process run at the centre of government by the | :31:48. | :31:49. | |
Department of Health with its arms length bodies, NHS England and | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
others and is not something that was consulted on with the NHS. But you | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
signed up to it. We always said that the day that that Spending Review | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
was announced, the idea that the NHS where customer demand goes up | :32:05. | :32:07. | |
something like four or 5% every year, the idea that in the middle | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
years of Parliament we would be able to provide the same level of service | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
when we were only getting funding increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
and I can show you the press release we issued, we always said there was | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
going to be a gap and that we would not be able to deliver what was | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
required. The full 22 billion in other words? What we said to Simon | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
Stevens at the Public Accounts Committee a few months ago, the NHS | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
didn't get what it was asked for. Today the NHS, cope with the | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
resources it has according to you. How much more does it need? Are | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
reported is about 2017-18 and we estimate that what we are being | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
asked to do, and again, Andrew, you clearly set it out in the package, | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
we are a long way off the four-hour A target and a long way off the | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
92%. The waiting times and operations. How much more do you | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
need? And we are making up a ?900 million deficit. If you take all of | :33:10. | :33:11. | |
those into account we estimate you would need an extra ?3.5 billion | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
next year in order to deliver all of those targets and eliminate the | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
deficit. That would be 3.5 billion on top of what is already planned | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
next year and that would be 3.5 billion repeated in the years to | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
come too? Yes, Andrew it is important we should make an | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
important distinction about the NHS versus other public services. When | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
the last government, the last Labour government put extra money into the | :33:39. | :33:41. | |
NHS it clearly said that in return for that it would establish some | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
standards in the NHS Constitution, the 95% A target we have talked | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
about and the 92% elective surgery we have talked about. The trust we | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
represent are very clear, they would want to realise those standards, but | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
you can only do it if you pay for it. The problem is at the moment is | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
we are in the longest and deepest financial squeeze in NHS history. As | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
we have said, funding is only going up by 1% per year but every year | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
just to stand still cost and demand go up by more than 4%. There is | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
clearly a demand for more money. I think people watching this programme | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
will think probably the NHS is going to have to get more money to meet | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
the goals you have been given. I think they would also like to be | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
sure that your Mac running the NHS as efficiently as it could be. We | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
read this morning that trusts have got ?100 million of empty properties | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
that cost 10 million to maintain, 36 office blocks are not being used, | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
you have surplus land equivalent to 1800 football pitches. Yes, there | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
are a number of things that we know in the NHS we need to do better but | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
let me remind you, Andrew, in the last Parliament we realised ?18 | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
billion worth of cost improvement gains. We are going to realise | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
another 3 billion this year, 0.25 billion more than last year so these | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
things are being targeted. But having that surplus land, it is | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
almost certainly in areas where there is a demand for housing. | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
Absolutely. So why not release it for housing? You get the money, the | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
people get their houses and its contribution and a signal that you | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
are running NHS assets as efficiently as you can? Tell me if | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
I'm going to too much detail for you. One of the reasons as to why | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
our trusts are reluctant to realise those land sales is because there is | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
an assumption that the money would go back to the Treasury and wouldn't | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
benefit NHS trusts. You could make a deal, couldn't you? That's part of | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
the conversation going on at the moment. The issue is that we would | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
want to ensure that if we do release land, quite rightly the benefit, | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
particularly in foundation trusts which are, as you will remember, | :35:54. | :36:04. | |
deliberately autonomous organisations, that they should keep | :36:05. | :36:06. | |
the benefit of those land sales. Have you raised that with the | :36:07. | :36:08. | |
government? Yes we have. What did they say? They | :36:09. | :36:19. | |
are in discussions of it. We heard somebody who moved from one job and | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
then to another job and given a big salary and then almost ?200,000 as a | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
payoff. There is a national mood for the NHS to get more money. But | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
before you give anybody any more money you want to be sure that the | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
money you have got already is being properly spent, which for us, is the | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
patient at the end of the day. And yet there seem to be these enormous | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
salaries and payoffs. I've worked in a FTSE 100 on the board of Her | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I have worked in large organisations. | :36:51. | :36:52. | |
I can look you completely straight in the eye and tell you that the | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
jobs that our hospital, community, mental health and ambulance chief | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
Executives do are amongst the most complicated leadership roles I have | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable that in order to get | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
the right quality of people we should pay an appropriate salary. | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
The reality is the salaries are paid are not excessive when talking about | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
managing budgets of over ?1 billion a year and talking about managing | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
tens of thousands of staff. There was a doctor working as a locum that | :37:19. | :37:26. | |
earned an extra ?375,000. One of the problems in the NHS is a mismatch | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
between the number of staff we need and the number of staff coming | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
through the pipeline. What is having to happen is if you want to keep a | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
service going you have to use Mackem and agency staff. Even at that cost? | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
You would not want to pay those amounts. But you are. The chief | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
Executives's choice in those areas is giving the service open or | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
employing a locum. I'm sure you could find a locum prepared to work | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
for less than that. What indication, what hopes do you have of getting | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
the extra ?3 billion? The government has been very clear, for the moment | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
it wants to stick to the existing funding settlement it has agreed. So | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
there was nothing in the budget. Can I finish by making one important | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
point. Please, finish. This is the first time the NHS has said before | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
the year has even started that we can't deliver on those standards. We | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
believe, as do most people who work in the NHS, that the NHS is on a | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
gradual slow decline. This is a very important inflection point to Mark, | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
this is the first time before the financial year starts that we say we | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
cannot meet the targets we are being asked to deliver and are in the NHS | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
Constitution. We have run out of time. Chris Hopson, thank you for | :38:43. | :38:43. | |
being with me. It's just gone 11:35am, | :38:44. | :38:44. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :38:45. | :38:46. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Coming up on the Sunday Politics | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
here in the South West... Fishermen and Brexit - | :38:50. | :39:05. | |
is it payback time? George Eustice and other ministers | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
made a big play of fishing And I think they actually owe | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
the fishing industry something. And for the next 20 minutes I'm | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
joined by the Labour councillor and former MP Candy Atherton, | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
and Farming and Fisheries Welcome, both of you, | :39:24. | :39:25. | |
to the programme. The Chancellor's plan to increase | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
National Insurance contributions from the self-employed survived | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
for slightly less than a week in the face of opposition | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
from Tory backbenchers. George, how did he get | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
in such a mess over this? Look, a Budget, this | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
can happen in Budgets. We all remember the pasty | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
tax of a few years ago. It's one of the problems | :39:47. | :39:48. | |
with a Budget, because there is a secrecy around them and then | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
they are launched in Sometimes there is a bad | :39:54. | :39:55. | |
reaction to them. I think in this one, | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
what they have reflected on, given the fact there was opposition | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
from a lot of our own backbenchers, given there was a manifesto | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
commitment not to raise National Insurance - | :40:06. | :40:07. | |
although it meant the class one National Insurance, | :40:08. | :40:09. | |
not the self-employed one - they have taken the view that | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
if they can't get it through Parliament, | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
they should revisit this. That's what they are doing and | :40:16. | :40:16. | |
that's what Parliament exists for. Candy, you did enjoy this, | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
it appears, rather. But did Labour do enough as | :40:20. | :40:21. | |
opposition, because the newspapers did seem to pick up on the fact that | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
really it was the Tory backbenchers, And I of course have been calling | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
on Tory backbenchers But we really didn't need | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
to do anything this week. The Tories were quite capable | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
of doing their own omnishambles. When you get these sorts | :40:39. | :40:40. | |
of decisions, you just have to look at it and listen to Parliament | :40:41. | :40:47. | |
and listen to your own backbenchers. The Chancellor now has a chance | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
to look at it again and he will come back in the Autumn Statement | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
with some revised plans. I think that's | :40:57. | :40:58. | |
the right thing to do. That's democracy in action | :40:59. | :41:00. | |
and people often say.... Could school funding, George, | :41:01. | :41:02. | |
be the next issue to force Ministers are bringing | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
in what is supposed to be a fairer way of sharing cash between schools | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
in different parts of the country. The existing system disadvantaged | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
areas like here in the south-west. But many are expecting to lose | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
funding, and the plans are facing opposition from within Tory | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
ranks yet again. The government says the new formula | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
will help pupils who get free school meals and those living | :41:25. | :41:35. | |
in disadvantaged areas. You can't actually put something | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
forward showing it to be a benefit, when it has such an adverse effect | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
on our schools and young people. I do feel cross and very | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
frustrated at the work and the job I'm expected to do, | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
with ever increasing No school avoids having a real | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
terms cut per pupil. Quite simply, the pot is not big | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
enough to benefit everybody. Schools in Devon already receive | :42:03. | :42:09. | |
less funding per pupil than other So when the government announced | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
it was considering a new formula to allocate money, there was hope | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
this might be addressed. Instead, this school | :42:21. | :42:22. | |
in Budleigh Salterton If the Fairer Funding Formula comes | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
into effect, my school loses 2.5% of its budget, | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
which is quite substantial. In reality, what that will mean | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
is I have to do my best to cut things back as far as possible | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
so that I can avoid to try Councils in Devon, Dorset | :42:38. | :42:46. | |
and Somerset were among those who wrote to the Prime Minister | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
to voice their concerns. Quite bluntly, I don't know how | :42:51. | :42:52. | |
they managed to draw up a formula that has absolutely upset everybody | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
throughout the Shire counties. Typically lower funded areas, | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
perhaps are not seeing the gains Under the new formula, | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
the games will go to the most Under the new formula, | :43:06. | :43:13. | |
the gains will go to the most Not so according to | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
the authors of a new report. The benefit that those | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
schools would otherwise receive are being swamped | :43:20. | :43:21. | |
by wider funding pressures. They are not recognising | :43:22. | :43:23. | |
rural deprivation and And our pupils are just | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
as disadvantaged, but in The Department for Education says | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
a consultation is still taking place on how the funding | :43:32. | :43:39. | |
formula is calculated. Are we facing another policy | :43:40. | :43:41. | |
climb-down here, do you think, because Tory backbenchers | :43:42. | :43:51. | |
are already threatening It is what it says on the tin - | :43:52. | :43:53. | |
it's a consultation. I think the thing to recognise is, | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
school funding is at It's at a record level in absolute | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
terms and in pounds per pupil. What we have tried to do with this | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
funding formula is try to equalise Because there has been this historic | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
unfairness in rural areas. That has been perpetuated | :44:12. | :44:19. | |
year on year. Just to give some figures - | :44:20. | :44:21. | |
we didn't in the piece. Places in London, you are talking | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
?7000 or ?8,000 per pupil. In Plymouth and parts | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
of Cornwall it's ?4000, And it's been like that | :44:28. | :44:29. | |
for many, many years, under Labour governments, | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
under Conservative governments. This is the first government | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
that's changing it. That's what the consultation | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
is about, it's about trying to get fairer, more equal payments | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
per pupil, so that rural schools and schools in places like Cornwall | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
start to get the same amount I have some concerns | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
with the formula in that I think it doesn't do enough to recognise some | :44:49. | :44:57. | |
of the deprivation we have in Cornwall, low income deprivation | :44:58. | :44:59. | |
rather than some of the other types We mentioned there that Labour | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
didn't bring it in when actually the money had been there had | :45:03. | :45:11. | |
Tony Blair decided The money overall went | :45:12. | :45:13. | |
to all the schools. The investment into schools | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
in the Labour years was massive. It was easier to sort it out | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
when there was more money, though. It might have been the time, | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
but also we actually When Labour came into office, | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
the toilets were outside. Labour didn't want to help rural | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
areas, they wanted to leave They put the money into their pet | :45:35. | :45:41. | |
projects, into the grammar schools and the free schools, | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
and actually it's all schools The right time, as you say, | :45:46. | :45:47. | |
to have done this, was when funding was going up, when there was a lot | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
of money around. The time to do it is | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
when you promise to do it. Whenever you do a review of any | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
formula, and this is perhaps the reason some have doubts, | :45:59. | :46:05. | |
is that there will be And there will be a lot of schools | :46:06. | :46:07. | |
in Cornwall that are better off. I have schools in my | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
constituency that do better. But there also some | :46:13. | :46:14. | |
that are worse off. That's why I said we need | :46:15. | :46:16. | |
to look again at some Is it one of those things | :46:17. | :46:18. | |
that's impossible, George? For example, David Laws, | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
the former Lib Dem Schools Minister, said that actually this is the kind | :46:24. | :46:25. | |
of thing where there are no friends for the government | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
because you will take money from some schools, and the others | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
are not going to get quite enough Do you think it's an impossible | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
position unless you pump in more Nothing is impossible, | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
but is it politically difficult? But this is a government | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
that is willing to do difficult That's why we are doing | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
this consultation now even though money is tight, | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
even though it's not an easy time to do it, | :46:53. | :46:54. | |
it's the right thing to do, and that's why we | :46:55. | :46:56. | |
are trying to do it. And the previous Chancellor has been | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
wryly amused because he recognised it wasn't something that | :47:00. | :47:01. | |
you want to do. The previous Chancellor was the one | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
who committed to having this review. Because in the next fortnight, | :47:04. | :47:06. | |
Theresa May will begin a formal Then she has to deliver on the many | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
promises made to Brexit supporters, ranging from action on immigration | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
to cuts in red tape and a better It could be a tall order | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
as Tamsin Melville reports. BOB GELDOF: You are no | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
fishermen's friend! Nigel, go back down the river, | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
because you are up Few aspects of our EU membership | :47:29. | :47:30. | |
have generated as much passion and controversy | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
as the Common Fisheries Policy. It's all right for | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
millionaires, mate! During the referendum debate | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
the industry was divided. But in the event, fishing regions | :47:43. | :47:44. | |
around the UK like Cornwall In the months since, | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
warnings the industry, which produces 0.5% of the UK's GDP, | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
might be marginalised George Eustice and other ministers | :47:52. | :47:54. | |
made a big play of fishing I think they actually owe | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
the fishing industry something. And a question mark over how | :48:01. | :48:09. | |
deliverable the wish list is of better access to fishing | :48:10. | :48:11. | |
grounds, markets and quotas in a post-Brexit Britain is leading | :48:12. | :48:13. | |
to a strong warning. There will inevitably, | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
and probably necessarily, be a negotiated agreement outside | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
of the 12 mile limit, But we do not expect there to be | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
the same degree of negotiation That's for the UK fishermen | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
and the UK inshore fleet, it should be managed for the benefit | :48:31. | :48:37. | |
of those guys. And anything less than complete | :48:38. | :48:39. | |
exclusivity will be seen as a betrayal, which isn't too | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
strong a word. Making sure that fishermen do get | :48:44. | :48:45. | |
a good deal is also key for this prominent businesswoman Brexiteer, | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
who back in June was celebrating. With two years of negotiations | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
about to get under way, still a lot of optimism about less | :48:55. | :49:02. | |
red tape for business I don't suppose we will get | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
everything, but I'm willing to take a gamble on the fact is that | :49:06. | :49:12. | |
if we take back control here, we can make decisions here, | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
but local funding is held here and we get the funding | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
in the right places But a message to the government | :49:21. | :49:22. | |
to sort out the sticking Because they are making it | :49:23. | :49:28. | |
about immigration and I don't think anybody in Cornwall voted for Brexit | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
over immigration It's more about taking control, | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
taking back control. The constituency of St Austell | :49:37. | :49:44. | |
and Newquay had the highest proportion of people voting | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
for Brexit in Cornwall, with more than six out | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
of ten plumping for leave. Let's find out what people | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
here in St Austell are thinking No. | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
No. The sooner they do it, the better. | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
We're pleased, yeah. We need to shut our | :50:02. | :50:03. | |
borders off as well. It's true, though. | :50:04. | :50:05. | |
Yeah. Immigrant-gration, | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
that is a problem. The hospitals is on its knees | :50:10. | :50:11. | |
because of it all, So do you think the UK Government | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
is going to get what you wanted? Otherwise there'll be hell | :50:15. | :50:21. | |
out, wouldn't there? You know, all these people | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
coming into the country and our National Health as it is, | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
maybe if that stops... I'm not on about the people | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
that are here to leave and go, but the people | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
who are actually coming in. But there was that pledge, | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
wasn't there, on the buses Do you think that was right, | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
is that going to happen? A few doubts, but it | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
seems hopes remains high It's over now to the | :50:48. | :50:56. | |
government to deliver. A lot was made in the campaign | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
before the referendum on the fishing industry and how we can claim | :51:01. | :51:09. | |
back our waters. Why haven't you done it, | :51:10. | :51:11. | |
because you can do this before triggering Article | :51:12. | :51:13. | |
50, can't you? There are two separate | :51:14. | :51:15. | |
but linked issues. There's something called | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
the 1964 London Convention, that predates our membership | :51:21. | :51:23. | |
of the EU, and that gives certain countries access | :51:24. | :51:25. | |
to the 6-12 miles zone. We have been very clear, | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
I have been consistent throughout, that we are looking very closely | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
at this issue. It is possible to revoke our | :51:33. | :51:35. | |
membership of that convention We've not yet made the final | :51:36. | :51:37. | |
decision, but I have been very clear that we are looking very | :51:38. | :51:46. | |
closely at this. Because there is a strong case | :51:47. | :51:48. | |
for it, particularly If you could exclude some | :51:49. | :51:50. | |
of the Dutch and French vessels from our 6-12 mile zone then | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
you would give more opportunities to some of those inshore vessels | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
who often struggle to get We heard Paul Trebilcock there, | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
on behalf of a lot of fishermen, saying anything less than bringing | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
in the 12 mile exclusion zone He said that wasn't | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
too strong a word. Look, I deal with fishermen a lot, | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
and they often assume the worst. I have said all the same things | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
since the decision to leave the EU I have been clear that we will | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
still fish sustainably. I have been clear that UN law | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
will be the new legal baseline. That's what Norway has, | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
it's what the Faroe Islands have. But we will still have some | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
kind of quota regime. We will still have to control | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
fishing in some way. I was honest about that | :52:38. | :52:39. | |
in the campaign and I've not said anything different | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
since the campaign. Candy, you seem like | :52:43. | :52:44. | |
you are agreeing here. Is it time to be patient now, | :52:45. | :52:46. | |
should we not jump the gun? It would be an ironic irony, | :52:47. | :52:49. | |
an irony, if they were actually the ones who were worst hit | :52:50. | :53:04. | |
as a result of Brexit. If we have a really bad | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
Brexit, then my fears But where there has to be | :53:08. | :53:09. | |
negotiations, it's not It was a nonsense when it was said | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
in the campaign, as now people And you detected that in the piece, | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
people are starting to realise that actually, it's not going to be | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
all this money to the NHS. It's not going to be all these great | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
goodies coming down. On fisheries, I was really clear | :53:26. | :53:28. | |
throughout that there would always still have | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
to be international negotiation. There will be annual negotiation | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
with the EU, with Norway, the Faroe Islands and Iceland, | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
just as we have now. How farmers, something close | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
to your heart, George, get workers that they need | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
after we leave. The government says | :53:45. | :53:46. | |
that the industry will recruit more unemployed British people rather | :53:47. | :53:48. | |
than relying on so many I think it must be part | :53:49. | :53:51. | |
of our long-term solution that the sector becomes less reliant | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
on migrant labour and And the government reforms | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
to the benefit system, for example, is aimed at encouraging more people | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
back into the workforce. These are jobs that traditionally | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
people in the UK have done, and there are opportunities, | :54:10. | :54:12. | |
I think, for British people in many cases, | :54:13. | :54:15. | |
to take some of these jobs. Changes to the benefit system | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
are part of that picture of incentivising people | :54:20. | :54:21. | |
to enter the workforce. You were sitting next | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
to the Immigration Minister there, I also gave evidence | :54:27. | :54:29. | |
to that committee. It all sounds fair | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
enough, doesn't it? If there are jobs, and local people | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
can do them, why would you bring in European workers, | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
and why wouldn't you give those people those jobs | :54:41. | :54:42. | |
and take them off benefits? Because the businesses are saying | :54:43. | :54:44. | |
that the right people are not necessarily those who are unemployed | :54:45. | :54:47. | |
who we need to get into the jobs. And are we going to be saying | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
to 65-year-old women who are not retiring until they are 67, | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
that they have to go out and pick Have you seen the modern | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
slavery law, George? We need workers to help us | :54:57. | :55:03. | |
manage our health service, everywhere you look, | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
and particularly in agriculture. Stopping you there, what do you mean | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
about modern slavery? I do believe that if you say | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
to people, you can eat, you can have a house, | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
a home, a roof over your head, but you've got to work absolutely | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
in this field picking cauliflowers, then I think that's not | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
a particularly the way this I don't quite understand this | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
argument that it's not modern slavery to have migrant labour doing | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
roles that you don't think people And if you listen to | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
the whole evidence session - it was a very long session, | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
three hours - there were two things One is, there will still be | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
a need for migrant labour. The important thing is, | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
having controlled migration doesn't mean pulling up the drawbridge | :55:57. | :55:58. | |
and stopping all migration. It simply means exactly what it | :55:59. | :56:00. | |
says, that you can control it. And we will have the ability to have | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
short-term work permits to allow some people to come | :56:04. | :56:06. | |
here to do seasonal work. We are looking at the detail | :56:07. | :56:08. | |
of exactly what we would put Will it mean that, as was put | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
in the papers, I know one piece where it said you end up having | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
immigration workers to do the picking, but maybe not | :56:18. | :56:19. | |
the doctors, if you are limiting it You could, or indeed, | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
in the case of agriculture, and this is the context | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
about getting more local people into agriculture, | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
there are roles, full-time roles, tractor driver rolls, | :56:29. | :56:30. | |
irrigation managers, agronomists. Other full-time farming roles | :56:31. | :56:31. | |
where actually the more progressive people in the farming industry do | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
tell me they could probably do better to get local people | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
from local schools taking Surely if those people | :56:38. | :56:39. | |
were available, they would be doing it now for those jobs you are saying | :56:40. | :56:53. | |
are slightly more skilled? No, what I think actually a lot | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
of them will admit is that it has been too easy just to rely | :56:57. | :57:00. | |
on migrant labour and have The farmers, it's been | :57:01. | :57:03. | |
too easy for farmers? Yes, and actually this is where, | :57:04. | :57:10. | |
there is a very interesting discussion to be had | :57:11. | :57:13. | |
about whether we have, yes, some permits in a controlled way | :57:14. | :57:15. | |
for seasonal labour where we can't But I think the quid pro quo | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
for that should be farm businesses trying a bit harder to get girls | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
and boys from local schools, when they leave at 16, | :57:23. | :57:24. | |
entering as apprentices. Candy makes the point that it's | :57:25. | :57:26. | |
a young person's job, You couldn't be expected to have | :57:27. | :57:29. | |
arthritis or some kind of issue, the elderly, and doing that | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
sort of job. And also do farmers | :57:34. | :57:35. | |
necessarily want certain types It tends to be, although there | :57:36. | :57:37. | |
are older people who are actually very fit and a lot of them | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
want to go and pick fruit. Often people who have retired | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
want to supplement their pension with a bit of extra income, | :57:46. | :57:56. | |
they do actually enjoy There are examples | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
of this at all farms. Candy, can Labour now | :58:00. | :58:08. | |
do anything to change the course of Brexit, | :58:09. | :58:10. | |
do you think? For those who are the 48ers, | :58:11. | :58:12. | |
of which I was one, strongly in favour of Remain, | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
I hope that this hard Brexit which is a road | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
we seem to be following.... Your party is allowing Article 50 | :58:22. | :58:23. | |
to be triggered, isn't it? It's probably above my pay grade, | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
but I would say this, that I strongly hope that we don't | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
put up the barriers, that we are an open country, | :58:34. | :58:36. | |
that we don't end up Any opposition, it's tough | :58:37. | :58:39. | |
being in opposition. It's a lot easier to be | :58:40. | :58:50. | |
in opposition than to I would like to see us really | :58:51. | :58:53. | |
holding this government to account and make sure that we have a Brexit | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
that doesn't leave this It's time for our regular round-up | :58:59. | :59:01. | |
of the political week in 60 seconds. Devon and Cornwall police are one | :59:02. | :59:10. | |
of 12 forces to send files to the Crown Prosecution Service | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
as part of enquiries into the Conservatives' | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
general election expenses. As well as the enquiry | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
into local spending, the Tories have been fined a record | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
?70,000 for failing to report Businesses have voiced concern | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
at a big fall in the number of European Union students wanting | :59:29. | :59:38. | |
to study in the south-west. The number applying | :59:39. | :59:40. | |
to the University of Exeter has The UK must be seen to be | :59:41. | :59:42. | |
open to people from all Campaigners welcomed a military | :59:43. | :59:49. | |
Appeal Court ruling that a Royal Marine Alexander Blackman | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
didn't murder a wounded Taliban fighter, but was guilty | :59:54. | :59:55. | |
of the lesser charge of manslaughter on the grounds of | :59:56. | :59:59. | |
diminished responsibility. And there were more protests over | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
the temporary closure of beds at Holsworthy hospital, | :00:06. | :00:07. | |
and fears that the loss of beds It's such an important thing, | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
a centre of the community, really. STUDIO: Right, let's look then | :00:11. | :00:22. | |
at election spending. Is it possible, George, | :00:23. | :00:24. | |
that at the end of this process and investigation, | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
we might have to see some I don't think that's | :00:29. | :00:30. | |
likely, and I don't think What's happened here, | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
is there is an investigation They are looking at all of the seats | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
where volunteers went It shouldn't have happened, | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
though, should it? The Labour Party at the last | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
election bussed in activists from Plymouth for some | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
of their campaign days. You don't force people to declare | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
the petrol if they drive from one But we were not hauled | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
into the High Court having to produce our receipts | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
and our expenditure. The Conservative Party have | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
left your MPs out to dry. I think the way they are behaving | :01:12. | :01:13. | |
and the way they have The truth here is that this | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
was a national expense. The party said they were going | :01:17. | :01:24. | |
to declare it nationally, so they told all those MPs not | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
to declare it locally. So local MPs, it's do with the way | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
it was organised nationally. It's a national expense, and that's | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
the way it has been accepted. It was a national expense | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
and declared nationally, It's coming up to the end | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
of our programme, Sunday Politics Thanks to both of my | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
guests, Candy and George. you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
to you. So, can George Osborne stay | :01:52. | :02:00. | |
on as a member of Parliament Will Conservative backbenchers force | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
a Government re-think And is Theresa May about to cap gas | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
and electricity prices? Whose idea was that first of all? | :02:08. | :02:21. | |
They are all questions for the Week Ahead to. | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
Let's start with the story that is too much fun to miss, on Friday it | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
was announced the former Chancellor would be the new editor of London's | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
Evening Standard newspaper, a position he will take up in mid-May | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
on a salary of ?200,000 for four days a week. | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
But Mr Osborne has said he will not be stepping down as MP | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
for Tatton in Cheshire, a job he's held since 2001, | :02:51. | :02:52. | |
Alongside these duties, he's also chairman of | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
While being committed to one day a week at Black Rock, | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
an American asset management firm - a part-time role that earns him | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
Then he's polishing his academic credentials, as a fellow | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
at the McCain Institute, an American thinktank, | :03:10. | :03:11. | |
And finally as a member of the Washington Speaker's Bureau, | :03:12. | :03:19. | |
he also earns his keep as an after-dinner speaker, banking | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
around ?750,000 since last summer. | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
So there you go. Nice little earners if you can get them. The problem, | :03:31. | :03:39. | |
though, is he has put second jobs on the agenda and lots of his fellow | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
MPs are not happy because they have got second jobs but not making that | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs on both sides actually are unhappy | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
about it exactly for those reasons. I find it a very interesting | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
appointment. We have got these people on the centre and centre | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
right of politics who have been used to power since 1997, they have been | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
on the airwaves today, Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
are all seeking other platforms now because power has moved elsewhere. | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
So Tony Blair is setting up this new foundation, Nick Clegg refused to | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair praised the appointment. They are | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
all searching for new platforms. They might have overestimated the | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
degree to which this will be a huge influential platform. The standard | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
was very pro-Tory at the 2015 election but London voted Labour, it | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they elected Sadiq Khan. It might be | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
overestimating the degree to which this is a hugely influential paper. | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
But I can see why it attracts him as a platform when all these platforms | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
have disappeared, eg power and government. All of these people who | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
used to be in power are quietly getting together again, Mr Blair on | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
television this morning, George Osborne not only filling his bank | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
account but now in charge of London's most important newspaper, | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
Nick Clegg out today not saying Brexit was a done deal, waiting to | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
see what happens, even John Major was wheeled out again today in the | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
Mail on Sunday. They are all playing for position. I half expect David | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
Cameron to turn up as features editor on The Evening Standard. | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg, did he not? I do not think this is | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
sustainable for George Osborne, I worked at The Evening Standard and I | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
was there for three years, I know what the hours are like for a humble | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
journalist, never mind the editor. If he thinks he can get at 4am | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
everyday to be in the offices at 5am to oversee the splash, manage | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
everything in the way and edited should he is in cloud cuckoo land. | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
What this says to people is there is a kind of feel of soft corruption | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
about public life here, where you see what you can get away with. He | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
thinks he can brazen this out and maybe he can but what kind of | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
message does that send to people about how seriously people take the | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
role of being an MP? He must have known. He applied for the job. The | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
Russian owner didn't approach him, he approached Lebedev, the | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
proprietor, for it. He must have calculated there would be some | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
kickback. I wonder if he realised there would be quite the kickback | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
there has been. I think that's probably right. This hasn't finished | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
yet, by the way, this will go on and on. How on earth does George Osborne | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
cover the budget in the autumn? Big budget, lots of physical changes and | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
tax rises to deal with the messages out of this week. You can see | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
already, Theresa May budget crashes. It could be worse. She's useless! | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
Or, worse than that, me, brilliant budget, terrible newspaper, I've | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
never buying it again. He has hoisted his own petard. He has not | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
bought it properly through. It's a something interesting about his own | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
future calculations, if he wants to stay on as an MP in 2020 and be | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
Prime Minister as he has or was wanted to be he has got to find a | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
new seat. How do you go into an association and say I should be an | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
MP, I can do it for at least four hours Purdy after editing The | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
Evening Standard, making a big speech and telling Black Rock how to | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
make a big profit. The feature pages have to be approved for the next day | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
and feature pages are aware the editor gets to make their mark. The | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
news is the news. The feature is what concerns you, what he is in | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
your bonnet. That defines the newspaper, doesn't it? It is not | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
over yet. Too much 101 on newspapers. And Haatheq at. | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
School funding, the consultation period ends, it has been a tricky | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
one for the government, some areas losing. I guess we are seeing this | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
through the prism of the National Insurance contributions now, it is a | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
small majority, if Tory MPs are unhappy she may not get her way. | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
Talking to backbench MPs who are unhappy the feeling is it is not | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
going to go ahead in the proposed form that the consultation has been | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
on. No 10 will definitely have to move on this. It is unclear whether | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
they will scrap it completely, or will they bring in something | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
possibly like a base level, floor level pupil funding below which you | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
can't go? You would then still need to find some extra money. So there | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
are no easy solutions on this but what is clear it is not going to go | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
ahead in its current form. Parents have been getting letters across the | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
country in England about what this will mean for teachers and so on in | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
certain schools. It's not just a matter of the education Department, | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
the schools, or the teachers and Tory backbenchers. Parents are being | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
mobilised on this. The point of the new funding formula is to allocate | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
more money to the more disadvantaged. That means schools in | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
the more prosperous suburbs are going to lose money. Budget cuts on | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
schools which are already struggling. It comes down again to | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
be huge problem, the ever smaller fiscal pool, ever greater demands, | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
NHS, social care, education as well, adding to Theresa May and Phillip | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
Hammond's enormous problems. Here is an interesting issue, Steve. There | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
was a labour Leader of the Opposition that once suggested | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
perhaps given these huge energy companies which seemed to be good at | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
passing on energy rises but not so good at cutting energy prices when | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
it falls, that perhaps we should put a cap on them until at least we | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
study how the market goes. This was obviously ludicrous Marxism and | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
quite rightly knocked down by the Conservatives, except that Mrs May | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
is now talking about putting a cap on energy prices. Yes, I think if it | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
wasn't for Brexit we would focus much more on Theresa May's Ed | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
Miliband streak. Whether this translates into policies, let us | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
see. That bit we don't know. That bit we don't know but in terms of | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
argument her speech to the Conservative conference on Friday | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
was about the third or fourth time where she said as part of the | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
speech, let's focus on the good that government can do, including in | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
intervening in markets, exactly in the way that he used to argue. As | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
you say, we await the policy consequences of that. She seems more | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
cautious in terms of policy in fermentation. But in terms of the | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
industrial strategy, in terms of implying intervention in certain | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
markets, there is a kind of Milibandesque streak. And there | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
comes a time when she has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
They talk a lot about the just about managing, just about managing face | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
rising food bills because of the lower pound and face rising fuel | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
bills because of the rise in oil and in other commodities. One of the two | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
things you could do to help the just about managing is to cut their food | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
bills and the second would be to cut their fuel bills. At some stage she | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
has to do something for them. We don't know what is going to happen | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
to food bills under Brexit, that could become a really serious issue. | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
They could abolish tariffs. There has been a lot of talking the talk | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
and big announcements put out and not following through so I agree | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
with you on that but lots of Tory MPs will have a big problem on | :11:42. | :11:55. | |
this and the principle of continually talking about | :11:56. | :11:57. | |
interfering in markets, whether it's on executive pay, whether it is on | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
energy, at a time when Britain needs to send out this message to the | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
world in their view, in the view of Brexit supporting MPs, that we are | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
open for business and the government is not about poking around and doing | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
this kind of thing. Of course, you could argue there is not a problem | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
in the market for energy, it is a malfunctioning market that doesn't | :12:12. | :12:13. | |
operate like a free market should, so that provides even Adam Smith, | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
the inventor of market economics would have said on that basis you | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
should intervene. I was in Cardiff to listen to Theresa May's latest | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
explanation for doing this. By the way, we've been waiting nine months, | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
this was one of her big ideas. You are right, let's see a bit of the | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
meat, please. My newspaper has been calling for some pretty hefty | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
government action on this for quite some time. For the just about | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
managings? Yes and specifically to sort out an energy market dominated | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
by the big six, which is manifestly ripping people off left, right and | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
centre. Theresa May's argument in Cardiff on Friday morning which, by | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
the way, went down like a proverbial windbreak at the proverbial funeral | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
because Tories... You know what I mean Andrew, the big hand coming | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
into from the state telling businesses what to do. They went | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
very quiet indeed. They were having saving the union and Nato but there | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
was no clapping for that. The point being, this is what she needs to do | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
to prove her assault, to prove those first words on the steps of Downing | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
Street. We await to see the actions taken. | :13:21. | :13:22. | |
On that unusual agreement we will leave it there. The Daily Politics | :13:23. | :13:30. | |
will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at noon and everyday during the week. | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
And I'll be here on BBC One next Sunday at 11am. | :13:34. | :13:35. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:36. | :14:19. | |
I've not given myself that time to sit down | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
Two years ago, former England captain Rio Ferdinand lost his wife | :14:26. | :14:29. |