22/04/2012 Sunday Politics South

In the south: At the view from Strasbourg. As opinion polls put

the UK Independence Party ahead of the Lib Dems, we get reaction from

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1723 seconds

Welcome to Sunday Politics South - my name's Peter Henley. On today's

show: As the UK Independence Party

overtakes the Liberal Democrats in two opinion polls, I've been to

Strasbourg to get the party leader's view on life as the third

most popular party. More on that later. First, let us meet the two

politicians who will be with us. Lord Jim Knight of Weymouth was the

MP for South Dorset until the last election. And Damien Heinz is the

Conservative MP for East Hampshire. Jim, a lot of talk about reform in

the House of Lords. You have been there a little while now. Two years.

You are still keen to make it 100% elected? I always said when I took

my seat there are would be a turkey vote at Christmas. I would say,

let's reserve 25% for the independent members and go with an

elected 75%. Personally, I'd advocate when we have a general

election to vote for MPs, we then tally up nationally the share of

the vote and allocate seats and House of Lords according to that.

You have been the MP and you can really do it as a law, could you?

The problem if you have a constituency is to become a rival

to the local MP, you have an office the taxpayer pays for, staff that

the tax payer pays for, and in the end you are also more allied to the

are -- the party line rather than the independents, which is valued

in the Lords. The Lords should unrivalled the Commons in forming

the government, in scrutinising the government. It should continue its

really good role in helping to improve our law-making, our

legislation. It is that function we have to protect when we perform it.

Damian, you are very keen on changing the way Parliament works

as a new MP. But on this one, Conservatives are kicking up a bit

of a stink, are made? Actually, I agree with a great deal of what Jim

said. I think we had to wait and see what colleagues say. The House

of Lords does need more democratic legitimacy, so modernisation is

right. But we are also Conservatives, so we believe that

when we're changing things, particularly when they are related

to the constitution, you do it carefully and make sure there will

not be unattended consequences. Does that extent to wanting a

referendum on whatever the solution is that Parliament comes up with?

Well, we have a Liberal Parliamentary democracy, and having

referenda is a rare thing. We do for mayors. A I don't totally rule

it out. You were keen for a referendum on the Yucatan. I was,

and I ate think that would be a good thing. My own view was that it

would be better in terms of getting a confirmation that there was

support. I can't promise you a referendum. All these great

political ideas! It is a local government decision, I respect that.

They have to make their case to the public in the same way that I'd do

over issues to do with what happens at Westminster. We will talk more

shortly. If you have a baby, your employer

will give you paid time off - six months for maternity leave - and

there's now a decent time off for dads too. It's your legal right.

But what if, tragically, your child dies? Should you be entitled in law

to time off to cope with your bereavement? That's what Lucy Hurd

from Sanghurst in Berkshire is campaigning for. Her son Jack died

suddenly 18 months ago, and she learned that most employers only

allow three days bereavement leave - one day of which has to be the

funeral. Now, she's calling on the government to change the law. Her

e-petition on the Number 10 website suggests employers provide up to 12

weeks if needed. I am pleased to say Lucy is with me now. You were

saying one of your wretched -- relatives is a suffragette, it is

in your blood. But this came out of such a difficult situation. Yes,

and fortunately our son Jack died, he drowned in a garden pond. It has

been a difficult time. And what made it harder was this situation

where you were not able to take time off work. My ex-partner and my

family all had to go back to work. Some had three days, I think the

most was five days. That is when I discovered you don't get a lot of

time off when a child dies. that extra time would have helped

you in what way? It would have helped a great deal to have my

family around me to support me. I do have two other children, so I

was doing it all on my own. My family was in Berkshire and I was

up and the Lake District so they couldn't even just pop round.

everybody copes with death in different ways. Some people might

want to get back to work. I suppose that would be their choice.

would be. You should have a choice, but at the moment it is the

employee as deciding the choice. Some employers would be better off,

but I suppose you wanted to be changed in Los so it is available

to people. I think it should be legislated so that employers don't

just give the three days off, they can give you a lot more time off

and you can go back to a job. Damian, obviously people are

sympathetic with Lucy's situation. But your party is saying businesses

should not have too much regulation. Is this an area where you say

common sense should prevail? Well, I think for anybody who has not

been what -- through what Lucy has been through, it is difficult to

comprehend the enormity of the loss and I can see why you were shocked

at the circumstances you and your family found themselves in. I hope

you should not need legislation for that kind of thing. You expect

employers to do the right thing. Employers are the people who 1

hopes have compassion. But maybe it is something to look at and what

Lizzie is doing in terms of the petition, trying to raise the

profile with people in Parliament and more broadly will get more

discussion and it is good there should be a debate. In other

countries, Jim, this is something which has been changed. Do you

think we should be keeping up? I only really thought about it

since I knew I was coming on the programme, so the campaign least he

has started is an important one and an effective one. I saw in some US

states they have is regulation and I'm certainly very sympathetic and

want to talk to the employer organisations, because this is not

going to happen very often within a business. It's not a huge cost.

It's not, and I think some balance between an entitlement to unpaid

and paid leave to help deal with it seems quite a sensible thing for

Lucy to campaign for an far as to listen to and consider. We need to

see if we can come up with a solution to make sure everybody,

regardless of who is employing them, just have a security. We can

understand why you're so motivated about this and the petition is

there. Do you feel you are being listened to? I do and I don't. I've

started to believe that I am, hence I am here having a chat about it.

But I am just doing this on my own. But I have learnt so much on my

journey over the past 12 months, of other people's journeys as well.

That is what has made me more passionate. It is not just me who

has experienced it, it's a lot of people. And light he said,

companies should have the compassion in them to give them

that time off, but unfortunately not many do. Yes, there are some

that will give you the amount of time that you require, and yes you

can take sick leave and you can take a holiday, but once that has

gone, it's... You a pretty determined about this, aren't you?

I am, I want to raise awareness, I wanted to be taught about. Because

unless you have been there, you don't know what is not available.

And for a family to find that actually their partners or

immediate family have to go back to work so soon, it's a hard thing to

try to deal with. Well done, keep going. Nice to see you.

This week, two opinion polls showed more people saying they would vote

for the UK Independence Party than the Liberal Democrats in a general

election. It's partly the Lib Dems slipping down below nine percent -

but is this an anti-Europe vote, or a simple mid-term protest? And what

does it say that a party with no seats at Westminster is now the

third most popular? The leader of UKIP of course is Nigel Farage,

elected here in the South of England as a Member of the European

Parliament, so to get answers to those questions earlier this week I

took the Eurostar over to the continent to see him.

It's a protest vote, of course, the Union Jack fluttering from Nigel

Farage's offers, part of his culture of defiance. But he says

popular support now proves his party offers more than that. If you

are a small business beleaguered by EU rules, one way to deal with it

is to leave the union and give power back to Westminster to deal

with employment legislation, for example. If you believe that

massive immigration over the past few years has reached such a level

that it is directly contributing to 21% youth employment in a country,

rather than just wringing your hands, we are offering a policy

solution. Pushing Lib Dems into fourth place in this poll makes

marriage more popular than the deputy Prime Minister. -- makes

mark Nigel Farage. I believe it is a party that brings together some

people whose ideologies are extreme right wing, together with many

people who have a grouse against the modern world as it is. That can

be a danger, I did believe it will be, because in the end of the

British people are pretty sensible about these things. We have not

gone for extreme solutions in the last couple of hundred years and I

don't think we are about to now. Graham is a former leader of mal de

grouping and has just published a booklet to fight back against what

he says on its about Britain's membership of the you. The big

challenges we face on a daily basis: Population, growth,

migration, climate change and energy security, fighting

internationally organised crime, making our economy work better,

these are supra national challenges and you need to be part of a

supranational organisation if you want to defend the interest of your

people and promote the values of your people. Millions of votes to

elect just nine individuals to sit in these chairs. Amongst 754

members of the European Parliament in Strasbourg, eurosceptics would

say, how can they make any difference? But those in favour of

the European project would argue our participation here in this

debating chamber is what gives us all as individuals rights as

European citizens as well as British citizens. From that they

are to Portugal, more than 300,000 British people come to work in

Europe, and their qualifications are recognised. And another 350,000

Brits have retired to the Mediterranean warmth with the

healthcare in benefits pay for. But is what we pay for to be part of

the Union worth it? The cost of running European institutions is

notorious, not least the �150 million a year to maintain the

these buildings in Strasbourg which duplicate ones already available in

Brussels. It is not just you Kip demanding reform. The party have

got to a level in the polls were they cannot win any seats put a

stop lots of Conservatives winning seats. And that in the long run is

obviously not in the Conservative Party's interests, and nor really

is it in interest of the voter who once the kind of success in the UK

that both parties push for. So there has to be some way of

resolving this issue so that the centre-right eurosceptic vote is no

longer split. But Nigel Farage insists he won't cut a deal with

Conservatives. Generally, if you want to do a deal with people, if

you want to co-operate with people, you don't go on for a decade or

more abusing people. At the moment, I still think we are in the abuse

phase. But it might change? A lot could change. The eurozone could

collapse this year, not just with financial implications for Europe,

but for the UK as well. Politics is in flux. I have not got a crystal

ball, all I know is that things we are fighting for an saying are

being believed by more and more people. Well, I will ask you that

referendum question again. A Conservative doesn't getting

because of the Independence Party vote. He says, if you had a simple

referendum, that would neutralise the threat. What do you think?

don't think we should be getting out of Europe. I do feel strongly

about reform of the EU, and I think that is where David Cameron is. We

want to change the way the EU works and change the nature of the

relationship of this country with it, but pulling out altogether is

not the right thing to do. You're in favour of referendums to make

people decide on this. That's the frustration which seems to fuel the

Independence Party. Well, we elect governments who have to put

together a programme a cause all aspects of what you do in

government in terms of the economy, foreign affairs, everything else.

You either have an anti-European stance or a pro-European stance. We

now have a eurosceptic stance, Sir David Cameron has a mandate to

change the relationship and tried to get powers back to stem the flow

of pointless regulations that come from Europe. I think that is the

right thing to do. To him, we have seen a surge of support for the

right-wing parties in France. Marie Le Pen is talking about bureaucracy

and immigration and other things. Is this just mid-term blues or is

their grumpiness about politics in general? I think the search for

Nigel Farage and the polls is due to the near-collapse of the euro

and partly due to four weeks of discussion about disastrous budgets.

Both coalition parties have suffered in the polls as a result.

Sir it is a shambles. Also there is an appetite amongst the British

public for alternatives to the three main parties. That is why

Galloway one in Bradford, that is why a Nigel Farage is popular. And

some of that is because the mainstream politicians are not seen

to be dealing effectively enough with immigration, with Europe, with

the economy. And a challenge is there for all of us in mainstream

politics to have better answers to that. We have seen the row over

extraditing this week. They are not really in control of these

immigration and deportation issues. Now, our regular walk the round-up

Ministers from 47 European countries descended on Brighton to

consider changes to the Convention on Human Rights. The case of a

toddler who went missing in Germany over 30 years ago was raised in the

House of Commons by Caroline damage. She said when the child disappeared,

military police mishandled investigations. Will the Prime

Minister agree to me with the family to hear their calls for an

independent inquiry into the bungling of this investigation and

give them the closure that they so desperately need and deserve?

On Wednesday, the closure of a third of Hampshire's mental health

beds came under scrutiny. New Forest MP Julian Lewis claimed the

service is already overstretched. bed occupancy was still at almost

92%. And finally, how about beating the

drought by building your own well? It cost Trevor Morris from Reading

10 grant to drill down 80 feet, but he managed to avoid the hosepipe

ban. What drag? -- what drought? We

ought to address this. It's a bit strange that some people get away

with a hosepipe ban in their own backyard. I blame the press. I

think the Ministry has given a good explanation of what seems to happen.

It seemed to be to do with other people. Absolutely, and you are not

using your hose, you are saving water? Absolutely. If you could see

my car, it is very dirty. Well, I'm glad to hear your bird doing that.

Thank you for coming in and talking about things a bit further afield.