18/11/2012 Sunday Politics South


18/11/2012

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 18/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

In the South: We'll be talking to one of the

:01:30.:01:32.

independents elected as a new Police and Crime Commissioner.

:01:32.:01:35.

And is the business rate rebate that charity shops get damaging to

:01:35.:01:45.
:01:45.:01:45.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2380 seconds

:01:45.:41:25.

Welcome to Sunday Politics South - my name's Peter Henley. On today's

:41:26.:41:28.

programme: There are more charity shops on our

:41:28.:41:31.

high streets than ever before, but is that because the rebate they get

:41:31.:41:38.

on their business rates is unfair competition for other retailers?

:41:38.:41:40.

And we'll be interviewing under caution the new Police and Crime

:41:40.:41:42.

Commissioner for Dorset. All that in a moment.

:41:42.:41:45.

First though, let's meet the two politicians who'll be with me for

:41:45.:41:48.

the next 20 minutes - Caroline Dinenage is the Conservative MP for

:41:48.:41:58.
:41:58.:41:58.

Gosport and John Denham is the Labour MP for Southampton Itchen.

:41:58.:42:02.

The teacher or a warship building in Portsmouth, Caroline, is

:42:02.:42:06.

something that is in the papers again. Vince Cable says this is not

:42:06.:42:10.

a run of this order that was hoped for. Is it a difficult period

:42:10.:42:16.

ahead? It is a massive concern. It is responsible for a lot of jobs in

:42:16.:42:21.

that area, not just in shipbuilding but also in the wider supply chain.

:42:21.:42:25.

It is something that we will really have to look at. If it is it time

:42:25.:42:28.

to look at alternatives to this order ought to lobby to try to get

:42:28.:42:38.
:42:38.:42:39.

it? I think both. I think we need to work in really had to bring in

:42:39.:42:42.

work from overseas to try and fill this short fall in between this and

:42:42.:42:47.

the future combat ships. Is that going to happen, do you think,

:42:47.:42:51.

John? Her we're going to make every effort to because the significance

:42:51.:42:57.

of the company is much wider than the shipbuilding. It is the central

:42:57.:43:00.

base for Advanced Engineering skills, for working with modern

:43:00.:43:05.

technology and materials. So if you use it, you were not just losing

:43:05.:43:09.

one company but a company that is effectively supporting a huge chunk

:43:09.:43:13.

of our manufacturing industry, so we have got to get everybody

:43:13.:43:16.

together and say that the Government needs to do something.

:43:16.:43:21.

If you lose it, you will never get it back. It is worth the Government

:43:21.:43:25.

making an effort here. Why do Royal Navy ships have to be built in

:43:26.:43:31.

England? With Scottish independence, up the alternative is Scotland. Why

:43:31.:43:36.

not let the market sort itself out. The argument then is that you're

:43:36.:43:39.

going to buy everything from overseas. This Government has

:43:39.:43:43.

started to do that with the armed forces in general and that is a

:43:43.:43:47.

mistake. Not only do we lose those skilled jobs, there are only a

:43:47.:43:52.

million people working in skilled jobs in defence skills in this

:43:52.:43:56.

country, secondly someone else is controlling the technology. Someone

:43:56.:43:59.

will be selling you the second best because they keep the best for

:43:59.:44:03.

themselves. Any country that is going to have a credible armed

:44:03.:44:08.

forces has got to have an -- has got to have a defence industry to

:44:08.:44:13.

support it. You have the enterprise zone in Gosport, but it will be

:44:13.:44:16.

very difficult in the current climate to make up all those jobs.

:44:16.:44:20.

If it is an enormous amount of jobs. We have to look at it very

:44:20.:44:26.

carefully. It does not threaten the naval base or the dockyard, it is

:44:26.:44:29.

the shipbuilding jobs but that is still massive.

:44:29.:44:32.

So, after all the millions of pounds, and trailing accusations of

:44:32.:44:34.

voter apathy, the lowest turnout in British electoral history

:44:34.:44:37.

apparently - we now know who the 41 Police and Crime Commissioners will

:44:37.:44:41.

be. We had six force areas up for grabs in our region - here's Steve

:44:41.:44:51.
:44:51.:44:52.

Humphrey with a run down of who won The result in Dorset was one of the

:44:52.:44:57.

first big surprises on Friday. Independent Martin under help was

:44:57.:45:05.

declared the winner. -- Martyn Underhill. The Conservative

:45:05.:45:08.

candidate finished second, he left before the final result was

:45:08.:45:13.

declared. There was another victory for an independent candidate in

:45:13.:45:17.

Hampshire, with Simon his beating the Conservative former Government

:45:17.:45:22.

minister in the second round of counting. He is the chairman of the

:45:22.:45:25.

Crimestoppers charity in Hampshire and the Isle of Wight and a former

:45:25.:45:32.

Conservative councillor. We did not expect to win. I think the message

:45:32.:45:36.

that are put across, that we were independent from party-political

:45:36.:45:41.

politics, was a strong message. person who won the selection was a

:45:41.:45:46.

paid-up member of my party until this year. I am a Conservative, I

:45:46.:45:51.

am proud to be a conservative, I will never change my colours.

:45:51.:45:55.

Independent candidates notched up a hat-trick of winners in this region

:45:55.:46:00.

went Kevin Hurley won the election in Surrey. Conservative to the

:46:00.:46:05.

Isles was the runner up. The region's biggest police force,

:46:05.:46:10.

Thames Valley, will have a conservative as commissioner. The

:46:10.:46:14.

Labour candidate came second. think it is a matter of leadership.

:46:14.:46:19.

Everyone needs to be absolute clear that what you require is to reduce

:46:19.:46:25.

crime. In Sussex, Conservative Katie Brawn has been at announced

:46:25.:46:30.

winner. She was the National winner of the Conservative Women's

:46:30.:46:35.

Association. The Labour candidate came second. I want people that are

:46:35.:46:39.

causing problems in society, that are causing upsets in our

:46:39.:46:42.

communities, I want them to know that they're going to be dealt with.

:46:42.:46:47.

It is time we started pitch victims first. It was perhaps appropriate

:46:47.:46:52.

that will to police should be the very first to find out who would be

:46:52.:46:58.

their new commissioner. Just before 5am on Friday, Conservative Angus

:46:58.:47:02.

MacPherson was declared winner. Labour came second.

:47:02.:47:05.

And I'm joined now by one of those surprise winning independents,

:47:05.:47:13.

Martyn Underhill, who's the newly minted PCC for Dorset.

:47:13.:47:18.

What for people what it -- voting for? My direct Line was to keep

:47:19.:47:23.

party politics out of policing. When you are handling public money

:47:23.:47:27.

you cannot keep politics out of policing, but I wanted to have a

:47:27.:47:31.

platform of taking party politics out. We do not want people in

:47:31.:47:34.

Westminster telling us what to do with our police force. In an

:47:35.:47:39.

election with all sorts of problems... I would agree with that.

:47:39.:47:42.

The important thing to remember is that I have got a mandate across

:47:42.:47:48.

all eight areas of Dorset. I think the actual lesser -- actual

:47:48.:47:58.
:47:58.:48:01.

election was a shambles. You spent a lot of money? You went in with a

:48:01.:48:03.

manifesto before the others, campaigning for a long time. You

:48:03.:48:10.

have not said who has campaigned for your campaign few --. I have.

:48:10.:48:17.

The cosmetics company lush. They entirely funded a campaign? In not

:48:17.:48:21.

entirely, I had help in kind and donations from the company, but

:48:21.:48:30.

most of it was from A lash. They feel very strongly about crime.

:48:30.:48:33.

will they want something back for the money they have invested?

:48:33.:48:39.

they will not. There were no strings involved. At the end of the

:48:39.:48:43.

day, rural crime is a big issue for Dorset. It is not about whether a

:48:43.:48:48.

lush are supporting the are not, I need to look at the rural crime

:48:48.:48:54.

issued. He made a lot of promises during that campaign. Disbanding

:48:54.:48:57.

the marine section. You have said he will stop that. Will you stop

:48:57.:49:05.

that? Yes I well. Doubling the number of specials. Yes. At tablet

:49:05.:49:12.

for every officer and PC Esso? I am going to do that. And you will

:49:12.:49:15.

be purchasing the two boats for the mid- been sectioned to stop the

:49:15.:49:19.

disbanding? This sounds like operational stuff. You do not have

:49:19.:49:22.

achieved Constable, will you just be running the chief constable with

:49:22.:49:29.

strings from the side of us? Not at all. My manifesto does run-up to

:49:29.:49:32.

operational policing. The reason I have the upper -- the opportunity

:49:32.:49:36.

to do that is because we do not have a chief constable. When I hire

:49:36.:49:41.

one who shares my vision, I can enhance those duties to him or her.

:49:41.:49:47.

You're only going a hire someone who sounds up to a manifesto?

:49:47.:49:52.

is common sense. And presumably what the public wanted, even the 93

:49:52.:49:57.

% of them did not old. It does bother me. The election turnout was

:49:57.:50:04.

appalling. But I will not have that said that is his lack of interest

:50:04.:50:07.

in Police and Crime Commissioner us. The electorate did vote and I have

:50:07.:50:13.

a clear mandate across the whole of Dorset. My manifesto is commonsense,

:50:13.:50:18.

making Dorset safe. This gives the public a voice for the first time.

:50:18.:50:25.

They have someone they can go to. am sure going to set up community

:50:25.:50:28.

forums and all these other things, these are going to cost a lot of

:50:29.:50:34.

money. As an independent, you have known lever with Government or

:50:34.:50:40.

opposition parties. Can you do it within budget? With 12 independence,

:50:40.:50:43.

we had a very strong a political lobby it to Government. Those

:50:44.:50:48.

independents will be knocking on the door of Government. Will you be

:50:48.:50:53.

asking for money? All I will say is I want a fair slice of the pie.

:50:53.:50:58.

Dorset is the least funded force in the country. We are facing 25 %

:50:58.:51:04.

cuts. But some of the metropolitan areas are getting too much and

:51:04.:51:11.

rural areas like ourselves are not getting. I have already positioned

:51:11.:51:19.

to ten Downing Street about that and I will be back there now.

:51:19.:51:23.

people didn't want politicians. Didn't want Conservative or Labour.

:51:23.:51:29.

Is that a bad thing? congratulations. But this was a

:51:29.:51:34.

shambles, as he said. �100 million was spent on the election and it

:51:34.:51:38.

wasn't... Are the overwhelming feeling on the doorstep was that

:51:38.:51:45.

people were angry. They had insufficient information. So you

:51:45.:51:49.

would have spent �25 million on a new leaflet? I would not have had

:51:49.:51:53.

an election in November. You would have saved virtually all that money

:51:53.:51:57.

by having the election in May with local governments. You could have

:51:57.:52:01.

saved money there. It needed to be better explained. I do not think

:52:01.:52:06.

the idea was a good one. We did oppose it, we took part when they

:52:07.:52:10.

were called in Parliament. But actually we would have rather had

:52:10.:52:15.

improved scrutiny without the cost. You have an independent in Dorset

:52:15.:52:21.

and one in Hampshire, although one was a long track record as a party

:52:21.:52:26.

politician, but I bigger is a real danger of confusing party politics

:52:26.:52:29.

and policing in no way that we will see happened up and down the

:52:29.:52:32.

country and it would have been better not to go down this road.

:52:32.:52:36.

But if you are going to do it, do it properly and give the public for

:52:36.:52:40.

the information they need. Do not voted through and then really do

:52:40.:52:47.

nothing. Caroline, you had an open primary venue was elected as MP

:52:47.:52:53.

after the expenses scandal. This looks like a sort of rejection of

:52:53.:52:57.

the democratically run, transparent political parties. Do you see it as

:52:58.:53:01.

good that we have had these elections would you see it as

:53:01.:53:07.

dangerous. I think it is great. It depoliticise as the police and to

:53:07.:53:13.

deliver us... The fact that it has delivered independence, some of

:53:13.:53:17.

whom have political affiliations in part but are independent, many of

:53:17.:53:21.

them are solidly local at have a proven track record in the field. I

:53:21.:53:26.

think that is a good thing. Whatever is said about the way that

:53:26.:53:30.

the election was conducted, there are positive that we have to take

:53:30.:53:35.

out of this. The fact is that whoever is elected is in many, many

:53:35.:53:39.

ways much more democratically chosen by the public than the

:53:39.:53:43.

police authorities that they replace. I think the proof of this

:53:43.:53:48.

court whether this money has been well spent, will be in five years'

:53:48.:53:52.

time when people can judge whether it be a crime has gone down and

:53:52.:53:57.

whether they feel safer in their environment. And, Martyn Underhill,

:53:57.:54:02.

you feel that within this crime -- time film you will feel that you

:54:02.:54:06.

can meet these commitments? I will have to have met all of these

:54:06.:54:14.

commitments. These are long-term strategies. You should be seeing a

:54:14.:54:17.

significant difference in three and a happy years. We will get you back

:54:17.:54:22.

it smacks I am sure you will. The number of charity shops on the

:54:22.:54:26.

high street is supposed to be a barometer of retail health. But did

:54:26.:54:29.

you know that they get a very generous rebate on their business

:54:29.:54:32.

rates? As much as 80%, which makes them tough competition for

:54:32.:54:34.

businesses that are paying the full whack. The Welsh assembly is

:54:34.:54:37.

thinking about cutting down that rebate and, as Paul Greer reports,

:54:37.:54:41.

there are plenty in the south of England who reckon that would be a

:54:41.:54:49.

good idea here. Tickle walked out your local high

:54:49.:54:53.

street and there are some things you would expect to see. But ponder

:54:53.:54:59.

this. For every cafe new rule out there, but there are now 18 charity

:54:59.:55:06.

shops. -- for every cafe, there are 18 charity shops. They really are

:55:06.:55:10.

everywhere. It is boom time for her charity

:55:10.:55:14.

shops. There are now around 9,000 of them on the high streets and

:55:14.:55:18.

wily ways of the 200 million each year for good causes, there are

:55:18.:55:22.

growing concerns that they are beginning to take over. The mayor

:55:22.:55:26.

of Romsey says she is not against charity shops but she says other

:55:26.:55:30.

traders are finding it impossible to compete. They get their stock

:55:30.:55:37.

given freely, most of the time, and the use volunteer labour. So there

:55:37.:55:42.

really do not have a problem with too many expenses. And of course

:55:42.:55:48.

now, they have gone into new goods. Probably the shop along the road is

:55:48.:55:52.

selling those as well but with all the add-ons that charity shops do

:55:52.:55:57.

not have. And you think that is unfair competition? It is very

:55:57.:56:03.

unfair. But what do shoppers think? You what a better variety of shops.

:56:03.:56:09.

We have not got a men's shop or a teenager is a shop. You have to go

:56:09.:56:15.

to ASDA or somewhere like that. is bad, I think. It fills what ever

:56:15.:56:21.

the natural demand has. Mark it forces? Basically, yes. If people

:56:21.:56:24.

want charity shops then they will survive and if they do not been

:56:24.:56:32.

they will not. We need people who need to set up business. That is

:56:33.:56:37.

for growth in the economy is going to come from. There are too many in

:56:37.:56:43.

this town. You can have a few, by all means, because they're doing a

:56:43.:56:48.

good cause, but ten is way too many. In Southampton, charity store now

:56:48.:56:53.

that fill many of the best spots on the high street. The argument has

:56:53.:56:57.

gone that without them shops would be empty. Some traders insist they

:56:57.:57:02.

cannot get a look-in when they're against a charity. Gaping hardly

:57:02.:57:10.

any rates. The only pay about 20 % of their rates. They are bigger and

:57:10.:57:16.

they have more money than we have. I went for another shop five years

:57:16.:57:20.

ago and I was told that because we were not worth as much as the

:57:20.:57:24.

charity shop we were not a safe bet and they gave them the shop. That

:57:24.:57:30.

was unfair. If the idea floated by the Welsh Assembly to cut the rate

:57:30.:57:33.

relief that charity shops enjoy down at 250 % was adopted across

:57:34.:57:40.

the UK, it could cost charities �40 million. It would have a

:57:40.:57:44.

devastating effect on charities at a time that the rate of donations

:57:44.:57:49.

to charities has fallen significantly. Charity shops are

:57:49.:57:54.

now actually saving council's money because they take so many textiles

:57:54.:58:03.

out of the waste tree. If councils had to pay the landfill tax for the

:58:03.:58:07.

textiles that charity shops sell it would cost them millions of pounds.

:58:07.:58:11.

The Welsh Assembly cannot make any changes to business rate relief

:58:11.:58:15.

that charity shops enjoy it without Westminster's say-so. Cue the

:58:15.:58:20.

lobbyists. Those lobbyists will be heading to

:58:20.:58:25.

Westminster. Caroline, you run your own business

:58:25.:58:29.

before you went into Parliament and to know the costs involved. Do you

:58:29.:58:33.

think there is an element of unfair competition? It is a really tricky

:58:33.:58:38.

one because we all recognise that charity shops raised so much money

:58:38.:58:45.

for good causes that save the public purse in the long run but

:58:45.:58:48.

their overheads are so much law and in many cases their selling new

:58:48.:58:53.

goods and I think that is the issue. This is all compounded by the fact

:58:53.:58:56.

that the last Labour Government introduced business rates on vacant

:58:57.:59:02.

properties. There is this kind of perverse incentives for landlords

:59:02.:59:06.

to let charity shops have their places for three and sometimes even

:59:06.:59:15.

pay them. So it is sure she thought, John? Nothing is worse than a high

:59:15.:59:19.

street full of empty shops. I actually do not want to hammer the

:59:19.:59:21.

charities because they're having their grants cut by Government and

:59:21.:59:25.

they have to make money somehow but I think there are a lot of issues

:59:25.:59:31.

to do with a High Street. I think local authorities should have more

:59:31.:59:35.

powers around local business rates. In that film, are sold lots of

:59:35.:59:39.

bookmakers shops and they have very high stake gambling machines which

:59:39.:59:44.

is increasing the number of bookmakers in our high streets.

:59:44.:59:52.

Some coffee shops do not pay any tax. They have organised their

:59:52.:59:57.

affairs not to pay tax in this country. You have got Amazon, an

:59:57.:00:02.

American company... For let us not get distracted. If you want

:00:02.:00:05.

fairness on the High Street, you have got to tackle those retailers

:00:05.:00:10.

that do not pay tax. You have to deal with the spread of bookmakers

:00:11.:00:15.

and you have to have flexibility or local authorities. You have to have

:00:15.:00:21.

a cut in VAT and national insurance for small employers. It sounds like

:00:21.:00:25.

a lot of interference in the market. I think it is about putting the

:00:25.:00:29.

power back into the hands of local people as to how their towns are

:00:29.:00:34.

run. Should they be allowed to have a go at it because? I think

:00:34.:00:38.

bookmakers, charity shops, they all have a part to play in a High

:00:38.:00:41.

Street but I think it should be about the local council to say how

:00:41.:00:45.

many of each type of the tiller is in each high-street in order to

:00:45.:00:48.

bring the life blood back into our town centres.

:00:48.:00:51.

Now our regular round-up of the political week in the South in 60

:00:52.:01:01.

seconds. The week started with wider link

:01:01.:01:06.

fell it -- ferries accused of piracy for cutting services after 9

:01:06.:01:12.

o'clock. The local MP and reached for his cutlass. This is a lifeline

:01:12.:01:18.

service. It was full head for Berkshire trains as a minister told

:01:18.:01:24.

MPs he was looking into extra a rectifications. They were rowing

:01:24.:01:28.

back from would power as there were plans for a biomass power station

:01:28.:01:34.

in Hampshire were put -- in Southampton were put on hold.

:01:34.:01:43.

Also threw overboard, a possible regional pay deal for NHS staff.

:01:43.:01:46.

Meanwhile, the Transport Select Committee were forcing ministers to

:01:46.:01:53.

walk the plank, backing one MP's fight to keep rescue helicopters --

:01:53.:01:59.

rescue helicopters in Portland. And a volunteer crew were catching

:01:59.:02:09.
:02:09.:02:13.

speeding motorists. This says a's answer to Jacques

:02:13.:02:18.

Barrar right here! Let us talk about prisoners. We had

:02:18.:02:21.

debate earlier in the programme about the vote and you two are

:02:21.:02:28.

going to have to make some decisions. John, would you be

:02:28.:02:32.

prepared to give prisoners the vote in some circumstances? I do not

:02:32.:02:36.

want us to break from the European Convention on Human Rights, so I

:02:36.:02:41.

will go for the lowest possible voting rights. I do not want a

:02:41.:02:45.

general extension, I would rather have none, but if the only way

:02:45.:02:48.

forward to avoid does it with -- a boy does breaking with every

:02:48.:02:52.

European country then I will go for the six months of that is what is

:02:52.:02:59.

on offer. I am ready for a fight on this. I really think that the

:02:59.:03:01.

decision over who is allowed to vote for British laws should be in

:03:02.:03:08.

the hands of British people. If you vote that way, you will be praying

:03:08.:03:12.

-- paying compensation to prisoners. I think we have to fight is to the

:03:12.:03:15.

bitter end because it is so wrong it makes me sick to my stomach, to

:03:16.:03:20.

think they should be allowed to vote. I have sympathy with that but

:03:20.:03:24.

the bitter end could be that we break from every other European

:03:24.:03:28.

country in the standards of justice that have become the consensus

:03:28.:03:31.

because of Britain's influence after the Second World War and that

:03:31.:03:36.

is a huge step to take. I am not happy with the situation but if

:03:36.:03:41.

ultimately there is a minimal compromise that affects hardly any

:03:41.:03:45.

prisoners than I think it is worth going for. You have to pick your

:03:45.:03:50.

battles. We will look at the debate on Thursday but I feel pretty

:03:50.:03:56.

strongly about this. How do you think it will go? My guess would be

:03:56.:04:02.

that there will be a majority against prison a voting. Then we

:04:03.:04:08.

have to see. But this is not the European Union. Across too many of

:04:08.:04:12.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS