Browse content similar to 18/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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In the South: We'll be talking to one of the | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
independents elected as a new Police and Crime Commissioner. | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
And is the business rate rebate that charity shops get damaging to | :01:35. | :01:45. | |
:01:45. | :01:45. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2380 seconds | :01:45. | :41:25. | |
Welcome to Sunday Politics South - my name's Peter Henley. On today's | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
programme: There are more charity shops on our | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
high streets than ever before, but is that because the rebate they get | :41:31. | :41:38. | |
on their business rates is unfair competition for other retailers? | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
And we'll be interviewing under caution the new Police and Crime | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
Commissioner for Dorset. All that in a moment. | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
First though, let's meet the two politicians who'll be with me for | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
the next 20 minutes - Caroline Dinenage is the Conservative MP for | :41:48. | :41:58. | |
:41:58. | :41:58. | ||
Gosport and John Denham is the Labour MP for Southampton Itchen. | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
The teacher or a warship building in Portsmouth, Caroline, is | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
something that is in the papers again. Vince Cable says this is not | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
a run of this order that was hoped for. Is it a difficult period | :42:10. | :42:16. | |
ahead? It is a massive concern. It is responsible for a lot of jobs in | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
that area, not just in shipbuilding but also in the wider supply chain. | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
It is something that we will really have to look at. If it is it time | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
to look at alternatives to this order ought to lobby to try to get | :42:28. | :42:38. | |
:42:38. | :42:39. | ||
it? I think both. I think we need to work in really had to bring in | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
work from overseas to try and fill this short fall in between this and | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
the future combat ships. Is that going to happen, do you think, | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
John? Her we're going to make every effort to because the significance | :42:51. | :42:57. | |
of the company is much wider than the shipbuilding. It is the central | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
base for Advanced Engineering skills, for working with modern | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
technology and materials. So if you use it, you were not just losing | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
one company but a company that is effectively supporting a huge chunk | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
of our manufacturing industry, so we have got to get everybody | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
together and say that the Government needs to do something. | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
If you lose it, you will never get it back. It is worth the Government | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
making an effort here. Why do Royal Navy ships have to be built in | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
England? With Scottish independence, up the alternative is Scotland. Why | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
not let the market sort itself out. The argument then is that you're | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
going to buy everything from overseas. This Government has | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
started to do that with the armed forces in general and that is a | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
mistake. Not only do we lose those skilled jobs, there are only a | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
million people working in skilled jobs in defence skills in this | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
country, secondly someone else is controlling the technology. Someone | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
will be selling you the second best because they keep the best for | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
themselves. Any country that is going to have a credible armed | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
forces has got to have an -- has got to have a defence industry to | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
support it. You have the enterprise zone in Gosport, but it will be | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
very difficult in the current climate to make up all those jobs. | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
If it is an enormous amount of jobs. We have to look at it very | :44:20. | :44:26. | |
carefully. It does not threaten the naval base or the dockyard, it is | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
the shipbuilding jobs but that is still massive. | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
So, after all the millions of pounds, and trailing accusations of | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
voter apathy, the lowest turnout in British electoral history | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
apparently - we now know who the 41 Police and Crime Commissioners will | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
be. We had six force areas up for grabs in our region - here's Steve | :44:41. | :44:51. | |
:44:51. | :44:52. | ||
Humphrey with a run down of who won The result in Dorset was one of the | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
first big surprises on Friday. Independent Martin under help was | :44:57. | :45:05. | |
declared the winner. -- Martyn Underhill. The Conservative | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
candidate finished second, he left before the final result was | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
declared. There was another victory for an independent candidate in | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
Hampshire, with Simon his beating the Conservative former Government | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
minister in the second round of counting. He is the chairman of the | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
Crimestoppers charity in Hampshire and the Isle of Wight and a former | :45:25. | :45:32. | |
Conservative councillor. We did not expect to win. I think the message | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
that are put across, that we were independent from party-political | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
politics, was a strong message. person who won the selection was a | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
paid-up member of my party until this year. I am a Conservative, I | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
am proud to be a conservative, I will never change my colours. | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
Independent candidates notched up a hat-trick of winners in this region | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
went Kevin Hurley won the election in Surrey. Conservative to the | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
Isles was the runner up. The region's biggest police force, | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
Thames Valley, will have a conservative as commissioner. The | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
Labour candidate came second. think it is a matter of leadership. | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
Everyone needs to be absolute clear that what you require is to reduce | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
crime. In Sussex, Conservative Katie Brawn has been at announced | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
winner. She was the National winner of the Conservative Women's | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
Association. The Labour candidate came second. I want people that are | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
causing problems in society, that are causing upsets in our | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
communities, I want them to know that they're going to be dealt with. | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
It is time we started pitch victims first. It was perhaps appropriate | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
that will to police should be the very first to find out who would be | :46:52. | :46:58. | |
their new commissioner. Just before 5am on Friday, Conservative Angus | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
MacPherson was declared winner. Labour came second. | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
And I'm joined now by one of those surprise winning independents, | :47:05. | :47:13. | |
Martyn Underhill, who's the newly minted PCC for Dorset. | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
What for people what it -- voting for? My direct Line was to keep | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
party politics out of policing. When you are handling public money | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
you cannot keep politics out of policing, but I wanted to have a | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
platform of taking party politics out. We do not want people in | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
Westminster telling us what to do with our police force. In an | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
election with all sorts of problems... I would agree with that. | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
The important thing to remember is that I have got a mandate across | :47:42. | :47:48. | |
all eight areas of Dorset. I think the actual lesser -- actual | :47:48. | :47:58. | |
:47:58. | :48:01. | ||
election was a shambles. You spent a lot of money? You went in with a | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
manifesto before the others, campaigning for a long time. You | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
have not said who has campaigned for your campaign few --. I have. | :48:10. | :48:17. | |
The cosmetics company lush. They entirely funded a campaign? In not | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
entirely, I had help in kind and donations from the company, but | :48:21. | :48:30. | |
most of it was from A lash. They feel very strongly about crime. | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
will they want something back for the money they have invested? | :48:33. | :48:39. | |
they will not. There were no strings involved. At the end of the | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
day, rural crime is a big issue for Dorset. It is not about whether a | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
lush are supporting the are not, I need to look at the rural crime | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
issued. He made a lot of promises during that campaign. Disbanding | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
the marine section. You have said he will stop that. Will you stop | :48:57. | :49:05. | |
that? Yes I well. Doubling the number of specials. Yes. At tablet | :49:05. | :49:12. | |
for every officer and PC Esso? I am going to do that. And you will | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
be purchasing the two boats for the mid- been sectioned to stop the | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
disbanding? This sounds like operational stuff. You do not have | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
achieved Constable, will you just be running the chief constable with | :49:22. | :49:29. | |
strings from the side of us? Not at all. My manifesto does run-up to | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
operational policing. The reason I have the upper -- the opportunity | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
to do that is because we do not have a chief constable. When I hire | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
one who shares my vision, I can enhance those duties to him or her. | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
You're only going a hire someone who sounds up to a manifesto? | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
is common sense. And presumably what the public wanted, even the 93 | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
% of them did not old. It does bother me. The election turnout was | :49:57. | :50:04. | |
appalling. But I will not have that said that is his lack of interest | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
in Police and Crime Commissioner us. The electorate did vote and I have | :50:07. | :50:13. | |
a clear mandate across the whole of Dorset. My manifesto is commonsense, | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
making Dorset safe. This gives the public a voice for the first time. | :50:18. | :50:25. | |
They have someone they can go to. am sure going to set up community | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
forums and all these other things, these are going to cost a lot of | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
money. As an independent, you have known lever with Government or | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
opposition parties. Can you do it within budget? With 12 independence, | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
we had a very strong a political lobby it to Government. Those | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
independents will be knocking on the door of Government. Will you be | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
asking for money? All I will say is I want a fair slice of the pie. | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
Dorset is the least funded force in the country. We are facing 25 % | :50:58. | :51:04. | |
cuts. But some of the metropolitan areas are getting too much and | :51:04. | :51:11. | |
rural areas like ourselves are not getting. I have already positioned | :51:11. | :51:19. | |
to ten Downing Street about that and I will be back there now. | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
people didn't want politicians. Didn't want Conservative or Labour. | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
Is that a bad thing? congratulations. But this was a | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
shambles, as he said. �100 million was spent on the election and it | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
wasn't... Are the overwhelming feeling on the doorstep was that | :51:38. | :51:45. | |
people were angry. They had insufficient information. So you | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
would have spent �25 million on a new leaflet? I would not have had | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
an election in November. You would have saved virtually all that money | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
by having the election in May with local governments. You could have | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
saved money there. It needed to be better explained. I do not think | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
the idea was a good one. We did oppose it, we took part when they | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
were called in Parliament. But actually we would have rather had | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
improved scrutiny without the cost. You have an independent in Dorset | :52:15. | :52:21. | |
and one in Hampshire, although one was a long track record as a party | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
politician, but I bigger is a real danger of confusing party politics | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
and policing in no way that we will see happened up and down the | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
country and it would have been better not to go down this road. | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
But if you are going to do it, do it properly and give the public for | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
the information they need. Do not voted through and then really do | :52:40. | :52:47. | |
nothing. Caroline, you had an open primary venue was elected as MP | :52:47. | :52:53. | |
after the expenses scandal. This looks like a sort of rejection of | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
the democratically run, transparent political parties. Do you see it as | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
good that we have had these elections would you see it as | :53:01. | :53:07. | |
dangerous. I think it is great. It depoliticise as the police and to | :53:07. | :53:13. | |
deliver us... The fact that it has delivered independence, some of | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
whom have political affiliations in part but are independent, many of | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
them are solidly local at have a proven track record in the field. I | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
think that is a good thing. Whatever is said about the way that | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
the election was conducted, there are positive that we have to take | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
out of this. The fact is that whoever is elected is in many, many | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
ways much more democratically chosen by the public than the | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
police authorities that they replace. I think the proof of this | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
court whether this money has been well spent, will be in five years' | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
time when people can judge whether it be a crime has gone down and | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
whether they feel safer in their environment. And, Martyn Underhill, | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
you feel that within this crime -- time film you will feel that you | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
can meet these commitments? I will have to have met all of these | :54:06. | :54:14. | |
commitments. These are long-term strategies. You should be seeing a | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
significant difference in three and a happy years. We will get you back | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
it smacks I am sure you will. The number of charity shops on the | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
high street is supposed to be a barometer of retail health. But did | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
you know that they get a very generous rebate on their business | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
rates? As much as 80%, which makes them tough competition for | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
businesses that are paying the full whack. The Welsh assembly is | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
thinking about cutting down that rebate and, as Paul Greer reports, | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
there are plenty in the south of England who reckon that would be a | :54:41. | :54:49. | |
good idea here. Tickle walked out your local high | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
street and there are some things you would expect to see. But ponder | :54:53. | :54:59. | |
this. For every cafe new rule out there, but there are now 18 charity | :54:59. | :55:06. | |
shops. -- for every cafe, there are 18 charity shops. They really are | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
everywhere. It is boom time for her charity | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
shops. There are now around 9,000 of them on the high streets and | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
wily ways of the 200 million each year for good causes, there are | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
growing concerns that they are beginning to take over. The mayor | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
of Romsey says she is not against charity shops but she says other | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
traders are finding it impossible to compete. They get their stock | :55:30. | :55:37. | |
given freely, most of the time, and the use volunteer labour. So there | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
really do not have a problem with too many expenses. And of course | :55:42. | :55:48. | |
now, they have gone into new goods. Probably the shop along the road is | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
selling those as well but with all the add-ons that charity shops do | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
not have. And you think that is unfair competition? It is very | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
unfair. But what do shoppers think? You what a better variety of shops. | :56:03. | :56:09. | |
We have not got a men's shop or a teenager is a shop. You have to go | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
to ASDA or somewhere like that. is bad, I think. It fills what ever | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
the natural demand has. Mark it forces? Basically, yes. If people | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
want charity shops then they will survive and if they do not been | :56:24. | :56:32. | |
they will not. We need people who need to set up business. That is | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
for growth in the economy is going to come from. There are too many in | :56:37. | :56:43. | |
this town. You can have a few, by all means, because they're doing a | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
good cause, but ten is way too many. In Southampton, charity store now | :56:48. | :56:53. | |
that fill many of the best spots on the high street. The argument has | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
gone that without them shops would be empty. Some traders insist they | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
cannot get a look-in when they're against a charity. Gaping hardly | :57:02. | :57:10. | |
any rates. The only pay about 20 % of their rates. They are bigger and | :57:10. | :57:16. | |
they have more money than we have. I went for another shop five years | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
ago and I was told that because we were not worth as much as the | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
charity shop we were not a safe bet and they gave them the shop. That | :57:24. | :57:30. | |
was unfair. If the idea floated by the Welsh Assembly to cut the rate | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
relief that charity shops enjoy down at 250 % was adopted across | :57:34. | :57:40. | |
the UK, it could cost charities �40 million. It would have a | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
devastating effect on charities at a time that the rate of donations | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
to charities has fallen significantly. Charity shops are | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
now actually saving council's money because they take so many textiles | :57:54. | :58:03. | |
out of the waste tree. If councils had to pay the landfill tax for the | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
textiles that charity shops sell it would cost them millions of pounds. | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
The Welsh Assembly cannot make any changes to business rate relief | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
that charity shops enjoy it without Westminster's say-so. Cue the | :58:15. | :58:20. | |
lobbyists. Those lobbyists will be heading to | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
Westminster. Caroline, you run your own business | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
before you went into Parliament and to know the costs involved. Do you | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
think there is an element of unfair competition? It is a really tricky | :58:33. | :58:38. | |
one because we all recognise that charity shops raised so much money | :58:38. | :58:45. | |
for good causes that save the public purse in the long run but | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
their overheads are so much law and in many cases their selling new | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
goods and I think that is the issue. This is all compounded by the fact | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
that the last Labour Government introduced business rates on vacant | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
properties. There is this kind of perverse incentives for landlords | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
to let charity shops have their places for three and sometimes even | :59:06. | :59:15. | |
pay them. So it is sure she thought, John? Nothing is worse than a high | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
street full of empty shops. I actually do not want to hammer the | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
charities because they're having their grants cut by Government and | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
they have to make money somehow but I think there are a lot of issues | :59:25. | :59:31. | |
to do with a High Street. I think local authorities should have more | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
powers around local business rates. In that film, are sold lots of | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
bookmakers shops and they have very high stake gambling machines which | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
is increasing the number of bookmakers in our high streets. | :59:44. | :59:52. | |
Some coffee shops do not pay any tax. They have organised their | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
affairs not to pay tax in this country. You have got Amazon, an | :59:57. | :00:02. | |
American company... For let us not get distracted. If you want | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
fairness on the High Street, you have got to tackle those retailers | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
that do not pay tax. You have to deal with the spread of bookmakers | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
and you have to have flexibility or local authorities. You have to have | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
a cut in VAT and national insurance for small employers. It sounds like | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
a lot of interference in the market. I think it is about putting the | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
power back into the hands of local people as to how their towns are | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
run. Should they be allowed to have a go at it because? I think | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
bookmakers, charity shops, they all have a part to play in a High | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
Street but I think it should be about the local council to say how | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
many of each type of the tiller is in each high-street in order to | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
bring the life blood back into our town centres. | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
Now our regular round-up of the political week in the South in 60 | :00:52. | :01:01. | |
seconds. The week started with wider link | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
fell it -- ferries accused of piracy for cutting services after 9 | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
o'clock. The local MP and reached for his cutlass. This is a lifeline | :01:12. | :01:18. | |
service. It was full head for Berkshire trains as a minister told | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
MPs he was looking into extra a rectifications. They were rowing | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
back from would power as there were plans for a biomass power station | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
in Hampshire were put -- in Southampton were put on hold. | :01:34. | :01:43. | |
Also threw overboard, a possible regional pay deal for NHS staff. | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
Meanwhile, the Transport Select Committee were forcing ministers to | :01:46. | :01:53. | |
walk the plank, backing one MP's fight to keep rescue helicopters -- | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
rescue helicopters in Portland. And a volunteer crew were catching | :01:59. | :02:09. | |
:02:09. | :02:13. | ||
speeding motorists. This says a's answer to Jacques | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
Barrar right here! Let us talk about prisoners. We had | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
debate earlier in the programme about the vote and you two are | :02:21. | :02:28. | |
going to have to make some decisions. John, would you be | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
prepared to give prisoners the vote in some circumstances? I do not | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
want us to break from the European Convention on Human Rights, so I | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
will go for the lowest possible voting rights. I do not want a | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
general extension, I would rather have none, but if the only way | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
forward to avoid does it with -- a boy does breaking with every | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
European country then I will go for the six months of that is what is | :02:52. | :02:59. | |
on offer. I am ready for a fight on this. I really think that the | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
decision over who is allowed to vote for British laws should be in | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
the hands of British people. If you vote that way, you will be praying | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
-- paying compensation to prisoners. I think we have to fight is to the | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
bitter end because it is so wrong it makes me sick to my stomach, to | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
think they should be allowed to vote. I have sympathy with that but | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
the bitter end could be that we break from every other European | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
country in the standards of justice that have become the consensus | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
because of Britain's influence after the Second World War and that | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
is a huge step to take. I am not happy with the situation but if | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
ultimately there is a minimal compromise that affects hardly any | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
prisoners than I think it is worth going for. You have to pick your | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
battles. We will look at the debate on Thursday but I feel pretty | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
strongly about this. How do you think it will go? My guess would be | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
that there will be a majority against prison a voting. Then we | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
have to see. But this is not the European Union. Across too many of | :04:08. | :04:12. |