15/09/2013 Sunday Politics South

after the summer recess, and the party conference season is already

upon us. First, the Liberal Democrats. Have a great conference.

Nick Clegg has some convincing to do, according to our very own Sunday

Politics poll, his troops don't like his coalition bedmates. The latest

poll of the country also has the Lib Dems languishing behind UKIP in

fourth place, with only 9%. Paddy Ashdown! So can the Lib Dems

claw their way back, come the election in 2015? We will talking to

former leader, now the party's general election commander-in-chief,

Paddy Ashdown. George Osborne is a happy bunny

Might affect our these days,

now heading for the exit. We will hear from Nick Clegg on what it

And freshly showered from the Great North Run and looking as fresh as

daisies, the best and brightest Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Iain

Now, their leader is our Deputy Prime Minister. They are the junior

government. They like the colour yellow and they have not won a

general election since dinosaurs walked the earth. Now they are

behind UKIP in the polls, so as walked the earth. Now they are

party gathers for its annual bash this year in Glasgow, what is on

their mind? Who are the people gathering at the Clyde this weekend?

their mind? Who are the people Before they started drinking, we

councillors in England and Wales, comrade. The first question we asked

was, if the next election results in a hung parliament, which team would

you rather go into coalition with, the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem

councillors said Labour, two to the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem

Tories or Labour? It is not for the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem

to say. It is for the voters to say. We will decide depending on

is on the table. Who would you rather play table football against?

because I am winning. So in the winning 's which ones are heading

popular policy was a mansion tax on house is worth more than £2 million,

popular policy was a mansion tax on councillors. The next most popular

policy was scrapping the Trident nuclear deterrent, supported by

policy was scrapping the Trident of councillors. Then there was the

reinstatement of the 50p top rate of income tax. 70% of councillors like

the look of that. When it came to the idea of banning the burka in

public places like schools and airports, 45% of councillors were in

favour. Finally, a ban on topless Page three model is won the support

of 33% of councillors. Why is it so popular, the idea of a mansion tax?

It is a much fairer tax. We know there are people out there with

It is a much fairer tax. We know expensive houses. Which of these is

most important to you? Banning Trident. The cold war ended in

1989. Another one was the idea of banning the burka in public places.

whatever they like. If they want to banning the burka in public places.

wear the birth or a kilt or if they anything. We are the party of jobs.

Thank you. Last night, a fully clothed Nick Clegg rallied his

troops, but if he was not around, who would Lib Dem councillors want

instead? Business Secretary Vince Cable was most popular, with a third

of the votes. In second place, the party's president, Tim Farron, with

27%. 10% went to Danny Alexander, while the business minister Joe

Swinson received 7%. The Energy Secretary Ed Davey scooped 6%, and

in last place, Steve Webb, the pensions minister, who got 5%. If

any of these councillors want to talk to me about it, I would be

delighted to hear from them. Is talk to me about it, I would be

certainly isn't. What do you think contenders. But our survey is not

the only one that has got tongues wagging in Glasgow, because the

the only one that has got tongues Dem leadership have commissioned

their own poll which showed that 75% Dem leadership have commissioned

of the country will never vote Dem leadership have commissioned

the party, no matter what they do. Also meeting here this weekend,

the party, no matter what they do. Democrats like to think they have

got just as much va-va-voom, even if a big chunk of the country doesn't.

Add, back in his hometown. So, the Much of their party thinks they

Add, back in his hometown. So, the moving in the wrong direction.

Earlier, I spoke to former party moving in the wrong direction.

leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been put in charge of heading up the

leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been election campaign. I asked him if

the mood in Glasgow was grim. No. In many ways, as you know, Tory old

commentator that you are just as I am a hoary old member at the other

end of the camera, we have been midterm of a government, especially

when you are in government and the country is going for in a deep

economic crisis, has almost no relevance to where you might be

economic crisis, has almost no the nipple come to consider how

economic crisis, has almost no will vote in 600 days time -- when

the people come to consider how will vote in 600 days time -- when

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, but they are a snapshot of what

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, indication of where we will be.

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, guess is, for what it is worth,

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, as we come to the election, the

public will be in a very serious, probably frightened mood. Their

public will be in a very serious, thoughts will be, who maintains

public will be in a very serious, job, makes sure I don't have to

public will be in a very serious, to higher mortgage? The coalition

has delivered not only the required policies to make Britain's economy

prosperous, but also its society fair. That is what people will want

to see. I think coalition politics are here to stay and we have a role

to play in it. But you are in a are here to stay and we have a role

mood this morning. You tweeted that you were not happy with how the

Observer newspaper handled your there anything we can do to help?

There is probably something they arguments with the interview. The

headline they chose to put on it late last night was outrageous,

misrepresentative and in one case in Something about Ashdown wants a

coalition with the Tories, or at Something about Ashdown wants a

least they gave that in for us Something about Ashdown wants a

inference. Let me make this point. election. I am in charge of the

campaign. Any journalist who in these next two years says that any

Liberal Democrat prefers anything else in terms of the outcome of

Liberal Democrat prefers anything coalition but the result of the

ballot box dictating that outcome, that any prefer one side to another

coalition determined by the electors that any prefer one side to another

in the votes, will get a bloody that any prefer one side to another

time from me, no matter who they are. We take the warning. A survey

of Lib Dem councillors shows that in coalition with the Tories. That

of Lib Dem councillors shows that in clear sign that your activists want

a change of direction. I don't think it is news that as a left-wing

party, we find it more congenial with those on the left wing, but

that is not the issue. You saw it election. We are servants of the

ballot box. We do watch the British people require us to do to provide a

of our country. I am sure you have stable government in the interests

of our country. I am sure you have got the point by now. I have fought

the Tories all my life. But when responsibility to amend the economic

crisis, was this right for the determine who are going to be in any

coalition, should there be one, determine who are going to be in any

voters and nobody else. It is not about what we like. I understand

that. But your own internal polls leadership are not taking the party

with them on that. I don't think that is true. Nick Clegg has done

what no other party leader has done. He took the coalition agreement

what no other party leader has done. the party, and they voted for it. So

it is not true to say that members different direction. I think we

it is not true to say that members extraordinarily united. I did not

expect them to be so under these pressures, but they have surprised

me and made me joyful at the same time. The party has done what it

done in local government for a long time. We may have our private likes

and dislikes, but the thing that coalition is the ballot box. You

have said that three times. I can say it again if you like. Please

don't! What if your party votes say it again if you like. Please

reinstate tuition fees as party policy afternoon? We will have to

listen to that and act accordingly. You must listen to the voice of

listen to that and act accordingly. party and take it into account in

what you do. I am always quite answering hypothetical questions. I

don't think it is likely to happen, but if it did, we would have to

don't think it is likely to happen, distinguished Lib Dems was that

don't think it is likely to happen, your party conference voted for

something, it was in the manifesto. The manifesto is taken in its final

form before the party for decision. The party will express views at

form before the party for decision. stage in all sorts of ways. It did

in my leadership, too. The manifesto is democratically agreed by the

party at the time of the election, not before. The Tory conference

party at the time of the election, be about how they think they have

been vindicated, that austerity be about how they think they have

worked, the economy is turning a corner. But Nick Clegg's conference

announcements will be about plastic bags. Have you got the hang of this

coalition think? Andrew, you can always be guaranteed to put things

in the most discreditable form! always be guaranteed to put things

is part of your charm. That was about to be a minor announcement in

discovered beforehand. It has not the middle of his speech. But it was

discovered beforehand. It has not been very popular in terms of how it

has been received, but that is not the central message. That leads

has been received, but that is not to what I think is the biggest

election. Isn't the biggest danger that the Tories, not you, if there

is an economic recovery, they will get the credit for it? I don't think

think the electorate does gratitude. The only time people cast a thank

Thatcher over the sale of council houses. We could have a different

discussion over whether that was a good idea. But what you have done is

the underpinning for the promise of government, we have stayed firm

the underpinning for the promise of very tough economic policy. But

the underpinning for the promise of you get the credit? What we have

done by ourselves, which the Tories would never have done, is make sure

that when the pain is felt, it is not the poor who feel it. We have

seen the biggest shift of taxation, lifting the poorest in the country

out of taxation, that has ever happened, including in the previous

Labour government. You are presiding over the biggest squeeze on living

standards in modern times. Because it is the biggest recession in

modern times. When you speak to it is the biggest recession in

2.5 million people who have been lifted out of taxation altogether

because of the Liberal Democrats, tax cut. You may be able to make the

because of the Liberal Democrats, connection, Andrew, you are a sharp

economic crisis and difficulty for everybody. But it is clear that

economic crisis and difficulty for the Tories had been by themselves,

none of that would have happened. We have sought to shift the burden

none of that would have happened. We from the poorest in this country. I

am part of that. So when we go into the next election, the message will

am part of that. So when we go into be that if you want to continue

am part of that. So when we go into have a prosperous economy and a

society, only the Liberal Democrats will deliver that. Tim Farron says

want to diss him. Can you confirm he likes Ed Miliband and he does not

want to diss him. Can you confirm that there will be no dissing of Ed

Miliband? It is not much my style. I've never much liked comments about

the other leaders. I do not intend to make it so in the future. Can I'd

finish up on Syria? You said after the Syria vote that Britain was

finish up on Syria? You said after hugely diminished country. Given it

both sides on a course which could now see Syria give up chemical

weapons without records to military action, would you like to withdraw

these remarks and admit that you should be proud and happy with what

Britain has done? No. You and I should be proud and happy with what

know, because we are old observers, that that would never have happened

underpinning of a threat to use resigned from that. We have no part

to play in the fact that Assad and Putin have moved towards peace for

to play in the fact that Assad and fear of military action. We decided

exactly the opposite. Why would fear of military action. We decided

liked to have seen our country join in with those who are serious about

upholding an international law which has restrained even than axes and

left others to make sure that we talent, but instead we resigned

left others to make sure that we moved towards peace. -- even the

Maxis and Stalin. But if it had moved towards peace. -- even the

would not have had the time to allow this to happen. It has avoided war.

Job done, British Parliament. That would be true if it was accurate but

it is not. The resolution proposed a delay, that we should wait until the

inspectors came back. That time frame was absolutely nothing to

inspectors came back. That time with the parliamentary vote. The

vote was going to incorporate that. I do not think you can claim what

vote was going to incorporate that. remember that diplomacy, which was

not reinforced by the threat of military action, does not work.

not reinforced by the threat of is when diplomacy runs with a grain

of military action that it works. illustration of that, look at what

is happening over the last two weeks. By regret to say that our

country, which has always been in disengagement, had no part to play

And you we would get to the Balkans eventually, and we did. His biggest

challenge is if the economy is get some credit for the Lib Dems,

when the Tories will want to halt it all. But his position is not to

when the Tories will want to halt it the necessary axeman. That is George

Osborne's role. Their role is to be Osborne's role. Their role is to be

the chaser party, taking the edge off. They will because of me going

on about the pupil premium and That is what you will hear from

of the cuts. Will that work? They them, how they have taken the edge

of the cuts. Will that work? They are in a pretty good position. Even

if they have lost two thirds of are in a pretty good position. Even

popular support, according to the polls, I do not know anyone in

Westminster methinks that will be matched in their parliamentary

representation. If they have 56 matched in their parliamentary

now, they might lose a dozen but Strategically, they are in a better

position than the reading of the polls would tell you. I think Nick

Clegg's survival has been one of the stories of this Parliament. He is

looking good at the comfort -- at the conference. When he was at his

lowest after the AV referendum, people were saying he would survive

I thought that was fanciful. Believe and lead us into 2015 and beyond and

I thought that was fanciful. Believe it or not... Paddy Ashdown was

wrong, you were wrong and... I wasn't. I'm underestimated how bad

his rivals are. If you are Lib Dem member, however aggrieved you are

with Nick Clegg, you do not think, wouldn't it be great if Christian

was in charge? Nick Clegg is the best they have. -- Chris Huhne was

in charge. Of course, the people do in charge. Of course, the people do

government and it is a consequence of the way they vote, a different

matter. If Janan Ganesh is right, and they lose 15 seats in the next

pivotal in the next government. It Possibly the most amusing outcome

would be a Labour or Tory overall majority, which would be hilarious

for the look on Paddy Ashdown's face. The danger is they get trapped

constantly in talking about the politics of coalition and of a hung

parliament. And they are very puffed politics of coalition and of a hung

parliament. And they are very puffed up and they enjoy Parliament and

there is a possibility they will not be. While they are talking about the

Polish and themselves, they are be. While they are talking about the

talking about the issues facing be. While they are talking about the

coalition. It was interesting that he said that we are a left-wing

party, not a centre-left party or a centre party, but a left-wing party.

I'm going to put myself in the firing line and say that there is a

big split between the Tim Farron line who say they like Ed Miliband,

and another one, Jeremy Browne in the Home Office saying that Labour

are intellectually lazy. The risk clearly a clique around Nick Clegg

who wants to be a synthetic party, but that is not where the membership

who wants to be a synthetic party, activists are clearly of the left,

not just the centre-left. They are very pro-immigration and they want

strategy has to be to take the party to the centre. The something not

happen at some stage? The poll suggests it is a left-wing party.

happen at some stage? The poll Very left-wing. Other think the

happen at some stage? The poll would have yielded -- would have

yielded the same results before would have yielded -- would have

2010 election. This is reflected by the arithmetic. Whichever party

2010 election. This is reflected by biggest will most likely be the

2010 election. This is reflected by in coalition with the Lib Dems.

2010 election. This is reflected by Clegg's on latitude to choose is

exaggerated by us. The choice is no parliamentary arithmetic. But if you

remember the structure of the Lib Dems, they can tie themselves up in

infighting. -- the choice is not stable. And Nick Clegg has had a

good conference last year, and will have another one this year. The

economy is better than it was a have another one this year. The

ago. It could still go quite well for him. Yes, it is one of the

ago. It could still go quite well stories of this Parliament, his

survival and the way in which he has prospered. But there are a lot of

campaigners, labour activists who have not forgotten what he has done

in government and are determined to get him. It will be a tough year and

a half. Tougher than he imagined. Now, not so long ago they were

writing George Osborne's political obituary. Be on the Omni shambles

budget of 2012 and a lacklustre performance of the British economy

meant his reputation work -- was in the dirt. -- the omnishambles. But

things have changed. The Chancellor is saying he has been vindicated. If

runway, it looks as though the British economy has taken off,

quarter. Forecasts for the rest British economy has taken off,

the year have been revised up words. What's more, the office for National

recession never actually happened. Unemployment is down in the three

months to July and the number of spasticity rate since 1997. On

Monday, George Osborne said his policies were bearing fruit. We

Monday, George Osborne said his our nerve when many told us to

abandon our plans. As a result, thanks to the efforts and sacrifices

of the British people, Britain is turning a corner. The message for

his Labour critics was clear. The Chancellor thinks he was right and

Good afternoon. Good afternoon.Do you accept that the economy has

turned a corner? I think it is good that a stalled recovery appears

turned a corner? I think it is good get this in perspective. We have had

three wasted years. We have the worst economic recovery in history.

Debt is up and we have record youth programme if they feel better or

worse off, compared to 2010, the majority will tell you they feel

worse because, on average, wages are down by £1500 compared to May of

2010. That is the situation. The one of the things we have seen

talked about, Vince Cable has been talking about this as well, is what

is happening in the housing market. It seems that much of the solution

to powering the recovery in the It seems that much of the solution

of George Osborne lies in sorting out the housing market but the

problem is, we are at risk of being another housing bubble. Because

problem is, we are at risk of being research that came out this week, we

know that housing in the UK is three times more expensive than in the US.

know that housing in the UK is three We know that house prices are rising

five times faster than wages, but we also know that the government is

five times faster than wages, but we building new housing at a slower

rate, the slowest rate that we have complaining about a housing bubble,

isn't that like Satan complaining about seven? -- seven. We all know

that we cannot go back to business as usual. We need to build a new

model of growth. But the housing bubble you talk about, it is not a

bubble. It might turn into one. bubble you talk about, it is not a

said the risk of a bubble. It is nothing like what happened on the

I said, in 2009, we had the crash and we knew we needed to reconfigure

the way that our economy works. Having an economy based on crisis is

rebalance the economy. We saw the unemployment statistics this week,

and it is welcomed overall, that unemployment has come down. At half

up. And it went down in other parts. We know that we need to rebalance

our economy, so that we do not just rely on consumption, but that we

grow our productive sectors. And also that we grow our exports as

well. We know we have a continuing deficit. We always have a trade

deficit. There was never a trade surplus under Labour. Want to come

onto what you have mentioned but would you scrap the help to buy

scheme? We have not said that we would you scrap the help to buy

scheme? We have not said that we would do that. Why not if it is

causing the bubble? If you let me finish, on one hand what that scheme

does at the moment, at the moment it is inhalation to a new scheme but

tomorrow -- next year it will be in you do not sort out the supply of

housing, then that is a recipe for the problems we have seen. Our

argument is build more houses. Help more people to buy them by all means

but if you do not have the supply more people to buy them by all means

but if you do not have the supply you will end up with rising prices.

That is obvious. Labour said that government austerity would prevent

the return of growth. Austerity government austerity would prevent

were wrong. We never said that growth would never return. What

were wrong. We never said that said was that if you went for an

were wrong. We never said that overly extreme deficit reduction

recovery and you would choke growth. That is what we saw for three years.

If you say, look at the US economy, it has grown at three times the

If you say, look at the US economy, economy has grown at twice the rate.

But the British economy is growing quicker than the American or German

economy is now. But over time we have not seen that happen. But it is

now. That may be the case. But my point is that those three years

now. That may be the case. But my people undergoing huge stress and

worry. It is good that we have growth back again but the question

is, what kind of growth? What we have said... I'm going to come onto

that but your credibility depends on your previous analysis. And there

are doubts about it. This is what you said not that long ago. In

You and the Labour Party said it had choked off growth. You were wrong.

We were not wrong, because we had three years where the economy was

not moving. Let's remind ourselves. Claude Osborne was predicting that

the economy was going to grow by 6.9% between the start of this

Parliament and now. It has grown by 1.8%. We did not say we would never

have a return to growth. You never said that austerity would only

temporarily delay growth. We have looked through your speeches and Ed

Balls'. We can't find any reference to say this is simply delaying the

recovery. You said austerity would choke off growth. If that is true,

why has it returned now? Did we choke off growth. If that is true,

it would choke off growth for ever? choke off growth. If that is true,

We did not. You have changed your tune. I think your package at the

top of this programme, to frame tune. I think your package at the

around George Osborne, this is not a people's lives, and the people who

deserve huge credit for the growth we are seeing are our country's

businesses, who despite the tough economic times, have succeeded.

businesses, who despite the tough are the ones who have powered this

Westminster to take credit. But are the ones who have powered this

blame the government for lack of growth. So therefore, when the

growth comes, the government has to situation Britain is in now. We

growth comes, the government has to the recovery still has to reach

growth comes, the government has to parts of the country, but this is

the OECD annualised growth in the G-7, the world's guest economies.

That is looking pretty healthy. That is a recovery. I am not denying that

That is looking pretty healthy. That we are seeing a stalled recovery,

but who benefits from the growth? On average, your viewers have sustained

a £1500 pay cut. That is the second biggest fall in the G20 since May

2010. Because we had the biggest financial services sector and took

the biggest crash. Financial services are still in decline.

Financial services are about 10% of the economy. They are not the only

contributor to the economy. The point is, who benefits? Unemployment

is falling, but we don't just want people to have any job, we want them

to have decent jobs that pay a weight you can live off and that are

more secure. Let me show you the unemployment figures. Your criticism

has been that all the new jobs are part-time. They are not now, they

are full-time. Full-time unemployment, up -- full-time

employment, up 94,000. This is a short time frame. It is since the

recovery began. Half the jobs that have been created since May 2010

have been part-time jobs. Roughly 107,000 people are working part-time

who would like to work full-time. Over the last 20 years, people now

feel more insecure at work than ever. The question is about what

feel more insecure at work than kind of growth and employment you

are getting. The other point is the uneven spread of this across our

economy. In places like the north-east and north-west, the

Humber, the east of England, they have seen unemployment increase. I

agree that there was a regional imbalance, but the service sector is

growing, cheering and construction are growing and financial services

are in decline, so the rebalance is happening. It is not happening to

the degree we need to transform our economy so that we have a

long-term, sustainable model of growth. That is why we need a

comprehensive industrial strategy that all of government works

towards. Your party conference is coming up. I am sure you are looking

forward to it. Why do Ed Miliband's approval ratings get worse the more

people see of him? I don't accept that. I have given you the figures.

Polls go up and down. I have said that on this programme before. But

his approval rating has consistently gone down. What actually matters our

votes. Under Ed Miliband's leadership, the Labour Party have

votes. Under Ed Miliband's put on almost 2000 extra councillors

in places like Canada case, even Whitney. What is wrong with Whitney?

We have been putting on votes. Let me show you this. This is the net

satisfaction rating. Your leader is now more unpopular than Gordon Brown

was when he took Labour to the worst defeat in living memory. Gordon

Brown did not put on anything like this number of councillors. Votes

are what matter, Andrew. Few people think Ed Miliband is a capable

leader. Twice as many people think over Spurs who lives on the moon.

These are polls. If you are talking to me about over Spurs lit, that

puts this into context, Europe session with polls! -- Elvis

Presley. Since 2010, we have put on thousands of members. Compare that

to the Conservative Party, which has not won a general election since

1992. They will not disclose their membership figures. Why -- why won't

you pledge to renationalise Royal Mail? Because that would be like

writing a blank cheque. We don't know at the moment how much the

government would receive for the sale of Royal Mail? So how can I

judge how much it would cost to buy it back? That would be

irresponsible. But the government does not need to do this right now.

The entire country is against it. Sources in the City and Whitehall

tell me that if Labour pledged to renationalise it, it would kill off

the flotation. So if you are against it, why don't you do it? For me to

pledge to renationalise Royal Mail would be like writing a blank

cheque. But if you put it in the prospectus, people in the City, who

know more about these things, say it would not happen, so why not do it?

Because that would be irresponsible. It would be like writing a cheque

for billions to renationalise Royal Mail. You would not have too right

at the check if it did not happen. I have to deal with the facts. I am

not good deal with the plot somebody might be speculating about in the

City. We have to be careful about this. For me to pledge to

renationalise it now would be like writing a bank cheque . We are going

to be a fiscally responsible government. That is why I am not

prepared to do that. Ed Balls will not be talking to you. You are

watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in 20 minutes,

watching the Sunday Politics. Coming Welcome to Sunday politics the

south. On today's show, the Conference season is in full swing,

the TUC has been and gone in Bournemouth, The Greens are in

Brighton and the Liberal Democrats in Glasgow. So how is the political

landscape looking in the south this autumn? With me throughout the

programme are two local politicians for whom that is a pressing concern.

Vicky Slade, is hoping to inherit Annette Brook Brooks seat and James

Cracknell is standing as a Conservative in the south—west the

European elections. Vicky, first of all, you were a

financial adviser. I was.You have decided to get into politics, to try

and become a Liberal Democrat MP, very difficult time I would have

thought for the party. I haven't just decided to get into politics, I

was a financial adviser throughout my 20s. You write on your website I

led a highly material sec successful life I earned more money than is

ethically correct, I am not a great fan of the financial world, and when

I got to my 30s I had my children, and I sort of starting realising you

have got to put something back in, that is financial advice is about

giving not taking. It's a reaction to having done well. That was ten

years ago, I have had another career since then, the way your life

progresses I think. ? You have obviously had a fascinating career.

You had that awful accident in the States and had a brain injury. Yes,

part of the motivation is similar to Vicky, in that I as a sportsman

benefitted from the public support, and as we saw last year at the

Olympics, the passion there is in this country for sport, and I think

the best way to repay that support, is through politics and putting

something back in to it. You want to go Europe. Are you Euro—sceptic.

Europe is going to be a key area to make sure that we benefit from, as a

country in the south—west as a region, benefit from membership. The

chance to renegotiate is now, and that is, I think it is rather than a

sit on the outside and moan about it and not thinking we can affect

change, I would be rather try to effect change in a positive way for

the region, the country, my kids, their kids, because the decision

over the next few years affect us for decades to come. Right. Well, we

are going to be looking at the Liberal Democrats conference later

in the programme but let us talk about the Green Party conference in

Brighton. Welcome Keith. Fracking, in the news, Balcombe, Cal that and

all that ——ical ril that, I heard them say saying hydraulic fracking

could be the best thing for beating climate change. If the Chinese do it

they won't burn so much coal. I wonder who said that. It was a

fracking person. I am November surprise. Is it not true?The point

s I am representing the south—east of England, Cuadrilla have their

eyes on fracking well in Balcombe, and other companies want to forensic

in other parts of the region. Now, this... That will stop up from

importing gas, from, it if it works from qats tar, Russia, difficult

places, and if the Chinese did they wouldn't have to burn so much coal.

It would be a good thing for the plant. You don't have any evidence.

At best it is scant we can do it. Temperature science is a new one, in

America, they have been fracking since about 2006, and they have gone

completely over the top. Pence crane have a is seen fracking wells open

at the rate of 200 a month. Now, this... And their gas prices have

come down, even if they didn't do that here, people are fed up with

energy prices. Of course they are. Let us just think about that. Just

because people are worried about paying too much for energy, we don't

actually have to take fossil fuel out of the ground, in fracking

because simply, it is going to be more damaging in the long run, what

we need to be doing, and I keep saying this, is the Government

instead of throwing money at the fracking industry, we need to be

investing wisely in renewable energy, because the energy in the

sun and the wind and the tides is there for the taking. Isn't it just

as unproven, I mean oil and gas are much better proven? The, it is the

way you get it out, isn't it. And you know, if we actually look at the

science of it, you have to drill deep downwards and then you drill

out wards, you shatter the shale rock with water laced with toxic

chemicals, and then the gas permeates up, and the idea is you

have a cement casing, round the drill, round the drill. But that

breaks down, and it doesn't last forever. When when that happens you

get more methane coming out ands —— escaping, you get the radioactive

material, which inhabit the deep in the earth, they came up too. This is

just something we do not need to do. Keith Taylorer thank you for joining

us from Brighton. We will talk more about tracking in the future. There

has been a different sort of fracturing going on. It seemed to

fisle out but for the Dorset seaside resort it was an important occasion.

The return of the TUC after a quarter of a century meeting in

other places Don't they understand that when trade unionist make the

kation —— case for investment, for care... The nurses had won a 15% pay

rise. At Bournemouth in 1988, Labour leader Neil Kinnock walked into an

argument over the expulsion of the electricians union that was prepared

to set its own political agenda. 25 years on, the Labour leader comes by

South West Trains rather than a British Leyland car, but there is

still that thorny issue of independence. You face difficult

moment, and audiences who aren't going to like what you say, but the

right thing to do is to say what you believe. That is what I am going to

be doing. Are you going to win this battle? Yes.To reflect on what has

changed since the TUC were last in Bournemouth, a quarter of a century

ago, I spoke to Neil Duncan Jordan, President of a trade union council.

I think we are probably more active now than we were at that stage. The

council is building new recruit, affiliate, people are interested

again, in standing up for their rights. I mean locally in Dorset, we

are running a living wage campaign, that is particularly aimed at the

private sector. So it is not all dominated by public sector worker,

it is across board now a day, it is more women than men in trade unions

often. It is trying to recruit young people as well as peermed and it

looks as the whole range of issues that people are concerned with. Ed

Miliband's speech spelled out the change he wanted but it started with

an attack on the Conservative leader David Cameron. He writes you off, he

writing your members off. In fact he goes further than than that. Writes.

He oozes contempt for trade unionist from every pore of his being. Among

the delegates, members of the probation —— pro bayion officers

isdown I think the fact that the Government sees the public sector or

portrays the public sector as the enemy of the state is something that

galvanises many ordinary working people into looking to take action.

I think the onslaught of the public sector when you think about what has

happened, some 400,000 jobs lost in the Civil Service alone and more in

the wider public sector is a good indicator of why people are angry

and feel threatened. Bournemouth was supposed to be a new beginning for

Labour's relationship with the union, at Prime Minister's Questions

he was accused of folding quicker than a Bournemouth deckchair,

derided for a performance that was less raging bull than chicken run.

What dough you make of this idea that David Cameron has contempt for

grains, oozes it as Ed Miliband was saying. The crucial thing is you are

saying David rather than Ed, he needs to get them on support because

the way he is trying to change the funding, which, whether he needs it

now is a different question, the reason he won the leadership

election is because the support from the trade union, he doesn't want to

show he is, in their debt, but also, he doesn't want to lose their

support, so criticising der Leader of the Opposition party to them, and

saying that, you know h he not your friend, you maybe, the enemy of your

enemy, is your friend, and that is, he wants to reestablish what at ——

while at the aim time changing the funding. Isn't he saying it feel

like it is an attack on public services?

Asking if they were an animal, what kind of animal they would be? Here

are the voters of form and Chichester, an this is how they

perceive the Liberal Democrat Liberal Democrats. —— Portsmouth.

As an ex—farmer I would see a bull, that looks good and is sometimes

very placid but changes its mind quickly. Liberal Democrat.

Jellyfish. Why do you think?Soft squidgy and go with the flow.

Probably a chameleon because they keep changing their colours.

Orangutan. Orange. I don't know what Liberal Democrats

are. A cat would lay there and do nothing, bit like the Liberal

Democrats. A woodlouse. I would say that would

be a mouse, because they are small and feeble.

A skunk because nay join the Conservative, and don't like the

smell. A nice big dog. Meerkat, yeah. I voted for them when I was a

student, then they shied away. A hedgehog, because Tay are spiky,

naughty but they are cute and small. Don't really get very far.

Some of those our guests liked but, yeah, not all of them. Not all.

Maybe not quite how the leader ship would like to be seen. On Friday

before he set off to Glasgow where the Liberal Democrats will be holing

their conference —— holding their conference, I asked Nick Clegg what

was wrong with good old southern locations like Bournemouth or

Brighton or Reading? There is nothing wrong with those wonderful

location, we have been there to Bournemouth, Brighton and son on in

the past and we will go again... It is up many more difficult for your

party members to get up to Scotland. Scottish party members would not

claim that when we meet in Bournemouth or Brighton. It's a

different sort of fight for Liberal Democrats in our part of the world,

isn't it, in, with coalition allies when it comes to the general

election, difficult choice for people? It is not that difficult in

the sense of course we are in coalition together. There are

obvious difference, if the coalition, if the conservatives had

been in power on their own people watching this programme would be

able to be fired at will with no reasons given under plans to fire at

Will, we would have had a two tier, we would have gone back to a two

tier exam system, separating people off on one heap or another. They

would have given a huge inheritance tax cut to millionaire, they would

have introduced profits into state schools. These are things we have

blocked because we are in coalition with them. In the same way they have

frustrated things I would like to do. That is nature of coalition, we

have to be relaxed and open about the differences but equally proud of

the fact what we have achieved in the coalition is hugely important,

which is rescuing repairing and reforming the British economy, which

was the central mission of this coalition, it is why we came into

power in the first place, and I am so proud of the way in which the

Liberal Democrats, we have held our nerve, we have been much more

resolute and united than critics predicted we would be. There is a

cons tagsal amendment talking about members bully or harassing other

members, now you have had a report on Mike Hancock, he has been subject

to disciplinary proprocedures but he is still a Liberal Democrat

councillor He is facing allegations which are serious, which he hotly

denies and strenuously and has done so always. He after discussions with

me and Alistair Carmichael and others volunteered to give up the

whip and said he is not going to be part of the Liberal Democrat

Parliamentary party as long adds he is in the process of seeking to

address the allegations and clear his name. That of course is a

decision I accepted. He needs to make up his own mind, as does the

council group in Portsmouth about arrangement in the council groups.

Should he stand down, if he is censured? Clearly if the allegations

are proved against him he will need to take responsibility for that, but

as I say, he denies them, and he is in the process of seeking to clear

his name. I am not going to start conferring guilt if you like on

someone until that process is complete. It is not yet complete.

Thank you. We didn't even talk about Chris

Huhne. Of the 55 Liberal Democrat MP, % have been involved in some

sort of scannedle. It is a not a good record is it? No, but at the

end of the day you have to judge somebody as an individual. I don't

think it is particularly sell haven't what party you —— relevant

what party you are with, an individual will make mistakes and

they have to take responsibility for those, whatever party they... Chris

Huhne suggests the papers were digging over the dirt when hay got

into Government. I think it is fair to say the newspaper, the media,

always wants a story, if there is a story when somebody becomes more

important, it subpoena clearly more likely that the papers are going to

dig deeper than they would if you weren't in a position of power. It

must have hit morale in the party Clearly it has. A third of the

membership has gone since 2010. But equally the Conservatives have lost

a lot of member, and obviously now Labour have got this rob with the

union, so, I don't think it is a Liberal Democrat problem, think it's

a disillusionment generally with the political class. The more your

profile goes up in any walk of life, the more than people will be

examined. You look at the way Farage has been more examined since UKIP's

profile has gone up. The Liberal Democrats will be examine more, that

is when people will be found wanting, you don't go into politics

if you have skeletons in your cupboard. You don't have any? That

That I believe is the case. They will be digging for everything on

anyone. Any sort of reality of any kind, they will find something out,

if you have it there. If you haven't... Let us go into the list

of things Nick Clegg says he stopped the Conservatives doing. Firing

people at will. The two tier exam, do you think that is a good thing to

have avoided? I was the first year of GCSEs, 1998 was when I did mine.

I didn't grow up in the two tier system, so I didn't really

understand the point of it. It is harking back to an old age. I think

it is needs to be more robust. I remember when I was taking my GCSE,

because there were no past papers, and we had O—level past papers and I

remember thinking ooh! Are you saying they have got easier I was

grateful I didn't have to do a couple of the O—levels. A lot of

teachers I talk to in the constituency are not happy with most

of what Michael Gove is bringing out. We are in changing world, and

there is a place for knowledge, there is a place for you know,

learning things in a particular way, but more importantly it is about

young people learning to adapt. Young people learning to

investigate, and having those skills, that employers need. As a

small employer myself, you know, I am seeing young people come out of

school without the relevant skills the employers need. I think that is

where our edge system needs to change. —— education system needs to

change. That is why our scheme to double the number of companies

bringing on apprenticeships is valuable. Rather than not everyone

in life is suited to the academic path and it is important have career

paths built in earlier as they do in Germany, rather than it being about

the exams, but it, it need to be competitive, because it is a global

race on every level, and we need to make sure we are robustly getting

people prepare for that academically and in the skill skills which is

important. Now, our regular round up of the

political week in the south in 60 seconds.

Back to school, and in Southampton these blazers are recycled. Not from

the second—hand shop, they are made of plastic bottles, which might help

in Oxfordshire. The operators of a landfill site were refused

permission to take more waste. Residents worried about lorries and

machinery at night. At March wood they are recycling old vehicles from

Afghanistan. The Defence Secretary say some will be overhauled before

being redeployed. Anything that doesn't make it will be sold or

destroyed or gifted. They won't be needed in the New Forest though,

where they are spending £4 million getting people out of their vehicles

We estimate nearly 200,000 private car miles are saved by customers

leaving their cars at home. Finally a Portsmouth taxi driver has started

a campaign to bring down the cost of license, though issued for just £11,

they can resell for 35,000. Lots about recycling, and using your

cars less, or more where the —— with the taxis, but the Green Party with

their conference going on, and both your parties claim to be green and

doing lots for the environment. What is the greenest thing you do?

Personally? Yes. Well, I try to cycle when I can to my council

meetings, my children cycle everywhere, we have solar panels on

the roof. You have?I do and in fact a few weeks time I will be going out

with the binmen in Poole to see how we can increase the recycling rates

there, because they are awful. I am working hard with my colleagues on

the council to improve that. I think it is washing out the cans. You

don't have to do that. That is a fallacy. What is greenest thing you

do? Not waste food. Because so much, take red meat. The impact on the

land, the cattle take up, the methane, transporting, energy for

refrigerating and we though a third of food away as a nation. We buy and

eat the food we need. That cuts it down a huge amount. The other thing

is if everyone lived like we do in Britain we would knee three grope

globe, in America, it is ten globes. Whereas in sub—Saharan Africa you

don't need a globe at all. We as a society need to change what we

consume. I am going to send you over the to Brighton I think to the Green

Party confrerntion see how you get on. Thanks very much to my guests.

Party confrerntion see how you get deserves a programme all to itself.

In a moment, more from our political Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says

victory for either the Conservatives Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says

or labour at the next election would put at risk the economic recovery

is. Speaking in Glasgow at the Liberal Democrat annual conference,

he said a coalition would allow Liberal Democrat annual conference,

party to balance politics and enable the government to finish the job of

repairing the economy fairly. It is my genuine belief that if we go

repairing the economy fairly. It is coalition and Islands politics,

repairing the economy fairly. It is dominating blood on their own, you

will get a recovery which is neither fair nor sustainable. Labour would

wreck the recovery, and under the fair nor sustainable. Labour would

same commitment to fairness as ours, you would get the wrong kind

Two 19-year-old woman arrested after a stabbing on Thursday have been

released without charge. Police a stabbing on Thursday have been

trying to discover if there is a link between the killing and a fire

four hours later in which four Five people are being questioned in

connection with that blaze. A Syrian government minister has described

the agreement drawn up by America country's chemical weapons as a

The minister claims the deals helps the Syrians out of a crisis and

others war. The US Secretary of State John Kerry is in Israel to

brief the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on the proposal. China

and France have also welcomed the deal, which says Syria has until

Friday to submit a competence of list of its chemical stockpile.

Britain's Mo Farah has missed out on winning his first half marathon

Britain's Mo Farah has missed out on He was taking part in the Great

North Run between Newcastle and South Shields. Farrar, who was the

favourite following his two gold Ethiopian's can mean many Serb

favourite following his two gold Kenenisa Bekele in a sprint finish.

A carnival atmosphere for the start was about the challenge. For others,

walking it, so I have no time in simply dressing up for fun. I am

walking it, so I have no time in mind. I just want to enjoy it and

appreciate the crowds and have a fantastic time. For elite athletes,

today's race was about who would be first over the line. Despite the

wind and rain, large crowds turned out for the world's most popular

half marathon, which attracts some of the finest women runners, two,

including the Kenyan. There were high hopes for Britain's double

Olympic champion Mo Farah, but after Shields, he was narrowly beaten

Ethiopian's Kenenisa Bekele. It Shields, he was narrowly beaten

thought I would come back and close the gap slowly. I managed to close

it a little bit, but you can't take away what he has. Wheelchair athlete

David Weir won his race for a fourth time. More than £200 million has

been raised since the Great North That is it for now. There will be

more news on BBC One at 6:35pm. So, did anything happen while we

were away this summer? I thought heading now? Who better to answer

than the best political panel we could cobble together for a tenner?

Putting foreign affairs to one side for a moment, it seems that what

happened mystically was that it became more apparent that some sort

of recovery was underway at last, and that Mr Miliband still has not

yet resonated with the British public. These things are a problem

for Labour. Ed Miliband's mistake over the summer holiday was to take

a summer holiday. And it looked over the summer holiday was to take

the rest of the Labour Party had taken one too. They were not finding

issues they could make their own. The only person who made an impact

was Stella Creasy on online abuse. That is a huge problem, and it is

partly down to the fact that there is this intense message discipline.

They don't want to say anything is this intense message discipline.

of line until they have got all their ducks in a row. It makes the

party do at the moment. The terms of party do at the moment. The terms of

trade have swung in David Cameron's favour, but the political rhetoric

look at this headline from the is still with Mr Miliband. Let's

look at this headline from the Sunday Telegraph. That headline

might not be right, but the story is significant in that Mr Cameron is

still in danger on his right flank significant in that Mr Cameron is

doesn't need an enormous share of the vote to get an overall majority?

Westminster group think. Of course Ed Miliband is in trouble. The

Tories are reserved and. They are better organised, the economy is

recovering. That poses difficulties for Labour, but if you look at what

is happening on the ground, UKIP still pose a danger to Cameron.

is happening on the ground, UKIP don't need to poll 15% in a lot

is happening on the ground, UKIP those marginal seats, they just

is happening on the ground, UKIP to get five or 6% of the vote, and

that could potentially destroy the Tory lead. Lots of commentators

that could potentially destroy the to say, this guy will never be prime

minister, but it is possible that by default or by accident, in a very

Miliband could end up as prime minister. It is still all to play

for on both sides. If UKIP remains a threat to the Tory right flank and

the Tories themselves are not really a national party any more, I am

the Tories themselves are not really they will only target a few seats in

Scotland, they don't get any big seats in the big cities of the north

any more, they don't get the Ulster vote they used to get, so it is

possible that Labour, which is more nationally based and has seats in

the Midlands and the north and in Wales, so they could get in. I

agree. The advantage of having a bad summer is that Ed Miliband can go to

expectations. All he has to do is not dribble on the lectern, and

expectations. All he has to do is will be written up as spectacular.

expectations. All he has to do is He might not even use a lectin.

position. The electoral vagaries of the system work in his favour. He

still has a narrow poll lead, he is not out of the game at all. Of the

three main party leaders, the only one who can be confident about being

three main party leaders, the only in government after 2015 is Nick

electorally. But if it is this bad for Labour at the moment, what will

it be like if this recovery turns out to be real? It depends how much

they succeed. Chuka Umunna was shifting the debate are living

standards. They don't want to keep arguing about who called it right.

Do people feel richer than they arguing about who called it right.

in 2010? The data suggests that people don't feel richer than in

2010. Because they are not.That people don't feel richer than in

the basis on which Labour will fight the next election. It is clear that

Labour are unclear on what to say or do next. They have just got to hope

and pray that the economy is not as soundly based as it appears to be

and that George Osborne is Tony Barber, who thought he fixed the

just before the next crash. There are all sorts of uncertainties

just before the next crash. There China, the bond market, the housing

bubble might be blown up, and Labour just had to hope something goes

wrong for Osborne. Chuka Umunna just had to hope something goes

he would not get rid of help to just had to hope something goes

There are all these criticisms about just had to hope something goes

artificial schemes pumping up house prices, but he would not say that.

It is tortuous. You see this again and again. When asked if Labour

would repeal the bedroom tax, or the same thing with Royal Mail, it

happens again. They will be falling on people who have not had a meal in

coming out of the Labour Party. There is a kind and Gillette in

coming out of the Labour Party. them to a politician's career. When

they are under attack for a long time, the media get bored after

they are under attack for a long while and switch the story. It

happened to Osborne, who had a horrific 2012 and has recovered

bad press as he is getting at the moment, because people find it

tedious. Syria has been the big foreign-policy event this summer. It

has remarkably led to a Soviet- American initiative to get Syria to

give up its chemical weapons. The world will now expect the Assad

regime to live up to its public commitments. As I said at the outset

anything less than full compliance. John Kerry. Is this too good to

anything less than full compliance. true? Even superficially, it is

anything less than full compliance. very good. The only people who

emerge with any sense of triumph are the Russians, who have had their

emerge with any sense of triumph are biggest diplomatic coup. They are

back on the stage again. B if you want to know why Putin even has

back on the stage again. B if you because of moments like this. They

were humiliated after the end of the Cold War, and a Nou Camp is a great

power again. Then you have the Obama situation, because he has ended

power again. Then you have the Obama where he wanted to end up. He has

power again. Then you have the Obama concession from Syria, but the way

he got there was so embarrassing. It concession from Syria, but the way

made him look weak and erratic as a leader. There were contradictions

between himself and his Secretary of State last week, and it has not

between himself and his Secretary of him any good. I was in the States,

and it was open season on him. I have never understood the idea of

chemical weapons as a red line when you can massacre people in their

thousands through other means. But chemical weapons are beyond the

pale. The rebels are miserable. chemical weapons are beyond the

have run out of time. I will have to ask you what you think about Syria

next week, which gives you time ask you what you think about Syria

prepare. Your book on Fred the shred is going well? It is.I am back

tomorrow at noon with the Daily Politics at noon on BBC Two, where

we will have more from the Liberal Democrat conference in Glasgow.

we will have more from the Liberal is the start of our Daily Politics

conference coverage. Next week, is the start of our Daily Politics

will be back here at our normal is the start of our Daily Politics

of 11am, when we will be joined is the start of our Daily Politics

Grant Shapps. Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.