Browse content similar to 06/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. And in-out EU | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
referendum before the general election? We talk to the Tory rebel | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
demanding one next year, that is our top story. As government ministers | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
prepare to decide how the press should be regulated, what will be | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
the impact of this week's row should be regulated, what will be | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
between the Daily Mail and Ed Miliband? | :00:57. | :01:05. | |
In the south, should we be more like peoples faces?! | :01:05. | :01:14. | |
In the south, should we be more like the Germans and have local banks | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
only lending to local people? He will try to force a vote in the | :01:16. | :02:01. | |
October. Home Secretary Theresa He will try to force a vote in the | :02:01. | :02:08. | |
was asked about his plans on the BBC earlier this morning. I think he has | :02:08. | :02:17. | |
got it wrong, I think what we need to do is to negotiate the settlement | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
with the European Union and then put that to the people me to decide | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
whether to be in or out. Is this a flea bite or a real threat? I think | :02:26. | :02:34. | |
the next election, a Conservative Party that will be offering people | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
that renegotiation, a new settlement with Europe, looking to the future | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
and putting that to the British people in and in or out referendum. | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
And what the amendment possibly could do, as James Wharton, who | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
And what the amendment possibly putting the Referendum Bill through | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
Parliament has said, is it could jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie | :02:53. | :03:00. | |
joins us now from Millbank studio. Good morning. If the referendum | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
would be held next October, it would have to be an in-out question based | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
the status quo? There wouldn't be time for a full renegotiation. I | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
disagree. By having a referendum in 2014, it gives us 12 months to | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
renegotiate, but it kick-started negotiations, because the European | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
Union, if they wish us to remain members, would need to accommodate | :03:23. | :03:24. | |
and make changes so that they would members, would need to accommodate | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
and make changes so that they would persuade the British public to stay, | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
think, basically, 80% of people incredibly, located renegotiation. I | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
a referendum. More than 50% what a election. British businesses need | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for | :03:57. | :03:58. | |
ever, but I have struggled with taking a scan down the road for | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
said, it strengthens the Prime Minister's hand if it is successful. | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
You right in the Mail on Sunday Minister's hand if it is successful. | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
the people are not convinced there even will be a referendum, so they | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
wrote for that piece. What I am You are saying that the British | :04:32. | :04:39. | |
people are not convinced. Look, there are too many uncertainties | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election, | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
I hope we will, they may not be convinced the renegotiation will be | :04:46. | :04:47. | |
good enough, that there will be convinced the renegotiation will be | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
referendum. Do you trust David That is why we need to bring the | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
referendum forward, there is time to negotiate, and we tidy up the issue | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
that has been hanging around for too long. Do you trust David Cameron to | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
deliver a referendum in 2017? I Minister, and of course I trust | :05:07. | :05:16. | |
deliver a referendum in 2017? I referendum? There as only variables | :05:16. | :05:17. | |
in between. What I am doing with referendum? There as only variables | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
this amendment, is to try to be referendum? There as only variables | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
is that Parliament and every MP referendum? There as only variables | :05:24. | :05:25. | |
the opportunity decide whether they want to be sure of a referendum | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
leave as of today, but there will be Michael Gove, I would vote for us to | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
an enormous amount of pressure on European Union leaders to come | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
forward with proposals. If they European Union leaders to come | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is ever | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
closer trading harmony, giving us closer trading harmony, giving us | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
more border control and control closer trading harmony, giving us | :05:56. | :05:57. | |
our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
happen - if we have a referendum in happen - if we have a referendum in | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
negotiations to be kick-started happen - if we have a referendum in | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
Minister. Is it true that you have end result is a stronger Prime | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
certain, and I think we will see it on hold over the next three or five | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you, | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and I know | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
cross-party, for people who want the British public to have a say in | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
2014. You know it is not going to get through, the whips will stop | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
this from happening. One of the successes, apparently, of your | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
party's Manchester conference was that you were not divided over | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was back to life and pouring petrol | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was unlicensed troublemaker of the | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
Tories? The only struggle I have had is not a fight with my party but | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
Tories? The only struggle I have had with my conscience as to whether or | :07:06. | :07:06. | |
not I would give Parliament and with my conscience as to whether or | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
it, and I decided I wanted people to have that opportunity. It is for | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
each individual MP to search their soul, speak to constituents and | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
decide whether they want that. You decided it would get you in the | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
headlines again. Oh, you are so cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition | :07:28. | :07:29. | |
publicity seeker. All I seek is cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition | :07:29. | :07:38. | |
would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
opportunity for Britain to have if I did not bring forward this | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
say. We have left it far too long. Nobody under the age of 56 has had a | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
say. Thanks for joining us, good luck with this continuing struggle | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
with your conscience! I will move the seat around and addressed the | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious with | :07:56. | :07:57. | |
him. I think what this confirms party managers must be furious with | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
that David Cameron is incredibly lucky in his enemies. His most | :08:02. | :08:10. | |
prolific critics, Nadine Dorries, Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
you are very anti-Cameron, you will not think, man, if only they were in | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
charge of the party! I think the party managers are not too alarmed. | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
They do not take him seriously? No, is not as if the James Wharton bill | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes. | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in the | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
next Parliament. My understanding of theoretically impossible and that | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
all the future government would theoretically impossible and that | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
Cameron's plan for a referendum bill. He does have a point that | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
nothing like as likely to happen... dangerous. The problem for David | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he might do is say to | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
his MPs, ignore this. It may well be significant number of Labour MPs do | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
not turn up, and then what you have Conservative backbenchers, and in | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
that war you might well find that through, and then the Prime Minister | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
has real trouble, because Adam Afriyie says, the Prime Minister | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
membership, up what basis and with which mandate? He would not be able | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
to get agreement with Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband, so you would be looking | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
think he is a Labour mole, that Ed Miliband, so you would be looking | :09:41. | :09:49. | |
what I have come to, a Daily Mail style conspiracy theory, it could | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
not be more perfect. The prospect of style conspiracy theory, it could | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
a referendum on the EU at the same time as Scottish independence is | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
has told us he could not sleep at conscience. We could send him some | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
pills, I suppose. We know he's going to sack all those lieutenants were | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
the Conservative Party. He denied doing that! He would be amazed to | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
hear you say that, this is a crisis conversations in corridors, quite an | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
operation to get letters into Graham Brady, he said to have letters, | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
operation to get letters into Graham 46, but at the moment this campaign | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
is being run by Lieutenant of Adam They are disaffected and not happy | :10:34. | :10:44. | |
under David Cameron's leadership. There is a whole army of them! I am | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
pleased he has outmanoeuvred the awkward squad, and now James Wharton | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
is saying, you're going to kill awkward squad, and now James Wharton | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
episode is it will unify a large Conservative Party behind David | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
Cameron. On what they hope is a settled position. We still hope | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
Cameron. On what they hope is a be talking to John Prescott, who is | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
you want to buy a house? Can you afford the mortgage repayments but | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
not the 20% or 30% deposit the mortgage provider is demanding from | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
you? The Government says it has mortgage provider is demanding from | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
scheme designed for you which is in launching next week, help to buy, | :11:31. | :11:38. | |
re-emergence of 95% mortgages, remember them?! But is the policy | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
really good for home-buyers or the British economy? Here is Giles. | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
Never mind who lives in a house British economy? Here is Giles. | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
this, who can afford to buy a house these days? The Government would | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
this, who can afford to buy a house like many more people to be able to | :11:53. | :11:54. | |
without putting down a crippling like many more people to be able to | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
without putting down a crippling amount of money as a deposit, and in | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
the spirit of rights to buy, the government has launched help to | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
the spirit of rights to buy, the confusingly it is the name for two | :12:04. | :12:04. | |
been running since April. Help to government are bringing it in early. | :12:04. | :12:25. | |
Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity it was for new build only, up to a | :12:40. | :12:41. | |
value of £600,000. But it is Help to value of £600,000. But it is Help to | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
to a value, again, of £600,000. right now. It is for any property up | :12:51. | :12:58. | |
time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
losses should the home owner in that it will take on the first | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
banks and building societies. And a housing prime mover. You cannot | :13:18. | :13:26. | |
get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even, so there are couples in | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
our country who have good jobs, decent incomes, they could afford | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
the mortgage payments but they failure in our banking market. So | :13:33. | :13:42. | |
Jonathan, but I guess for you this is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
main impact of this scheme will is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
to push up prices, who does that benefit? Mostly rich and all the | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
people who own their houses. Plus the banks, of course, because it is | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
a subsidy for them. Who loses? People who want to buy a house in | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd that the Government says it | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
the future. Moreover, it is a bit not OK to borrow to finance schools | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
or roads, but it is fine for the effectively, in order to guarantee | :14:11. | :14:23. | |
housing market. 2.3 million? I do not think Help to Buy covers that. | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
But enter a would-be buyer, will they now be seeing a plethora of | :14:27. | :14:34. | |
help to buy mortgages? In a word, no. David Cameron has brought the | :14:34. | :14:41. | |
months, and banks were not ready at that stage. Two banks have committed | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the RBS group, so lenders like | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will be doing the scheme, but even once | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
the scheme is up and running you are probably find 95% mortgages on the | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
high street because of the guarantee the government is offering. People | :15:00. | :15:10. | |
might say this is how we got into a mess in the first place. Why would | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
the government want to make those products available then now? It | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
the government want to make those more what investment banks were | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
doing in the background that caused performed extremely well through the | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
depths of the downturn. Is this performed extremely well through the | :15:28. | :15:35. | |
game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few years | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
but this has enabled me to make best to save over the last few years | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
first purchase. How frustrating best to save over the last few years | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
it just renting? Very frustrating, you are throwing away money hand | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
over fist, and now I can take that enthusiasm raises a question back at | :15:53. | :16:01. | |
the flat. If you are looking for a 95% mortgage, you don't really care | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a | :16:07. | :16:14. | |
house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term | :16:14. | :16:21. | |
economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to pull | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
off is that home-buyers might be so grateful for the opportunity to | :16:25. | :16:32. | |
off is that home-buyers might be so their own homes that they reward the | :16:32. | :16:32. | |
Government with the vote, while their own homes that they reward the | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
the same time the Government tries to sidestep consequences that such a | :16:35. | :16:52. | |
Now Conservative MP Margot James, and Allister Heath, editor of City | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
It is said by the critics that this scheme will cause a housing bubble. | :16:57. | :17:04. | |
Where is the evidence? House prices are more varied. Housing not just in | :17:04. | :17:18. | |
London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is that it | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
will pump up house prices, it will therefore houses will become even | :17:22. | :17:31. | |
more overvalued. That is a dangerous territory, last time it ended in | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
tears, and now the Government is taking on the risk of that policy. | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
What do you say to that? We have a real problem, it takes people on | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
average until they are 38 years real problem, it takes people on | :17:44. | :17:55. | |
property. The problem is not that they cannot afford it, but they | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
cannot afford the deposit. We have got to do something to allow people | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any | :18:08. | :18:23. | |
have had a record this year, 12 months to right now, the record | :18:23. | :18:33. | |
have had a record this year, 12 the last ten years. These are not | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
the statistics I have seen, but the last ten years. These are not | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
new supply is coming up. It is starting to creep up. We don't see | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
enough house building, need to build more houses and that is a solution | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
to this problem. You are right, people cannot afford to buy homes | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
and the reason is there are not enough good quality homes in the | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
deposits are so high is because secondly the Government has passed | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
laws to make the banking system secondly the Government has passed | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
prudent, telling them to put more wrong. Now suddenly the Government | :19:08. | :19:15. | |
is not happy with the outcome of its own rules and is trying to create | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
these subsidies to circumvent the rules it has put in place. It is not | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
a subsidy. Don't forget banks have to pay a charge in order to take | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
part in this loan scheme and that the... You are guaranteeing the | :19:32. | :19:39. | |
money. Yes, but the fear is worked out on a commercial basis. The | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
taxpayer is protected. Why? You out on a commercial basis. The | :19:42. | :19:49. | |
guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes but the | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
response of the crash. They made the distressed test on people applying | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
for mortgages much higher and you twice... So it will not be like | :20:03. | :20:13. | |
these self certification mortgages handed out in America that caused | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit like that but the banks are rightly | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
asking for bigger deposits, they know there is a big chance house | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
prices could fall if interest rates eventually, so they are demanding | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
bigger deposits. The Government eventually, so they are demanding | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
circumventing this is being passed eventually, so they are demanding | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
on to the taxpayers which is why it is a dangerous policy. Instead they | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
should be massively accelerating Planning permission is much easier | :20:46. | :20:54. | |
to get now, we have seen a 49% increase in planning permission | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
to get now, we have seen a 49% a new building over the last year, a | :20:58. | :20:59. | |
huge increase. In the figures I a new building over the last year, a | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
recently, they showed new start a new building over the last year, a | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
the 12 months to the autumn were only about 110,000 which is the | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
figure you inherited, which was only about 110,000 which is the | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the last quarter are third | :21:17. | :21:24. | |
up on the time last year. You have relaxation of planning laws and | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
up on the time last year. You have other policies the Government put | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
into effect last year to take effect and it is coming through now. I | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
agree, if we weren't building more houses, if the construction sector | :21:36. | :21:42. | |
advantage of the increased demand, there would be a risk. David Cameron | :21:42. | :21:49. | |
says you are snob and it is only snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They | :21:49. | :21:57. | |
don't have the bank of mum and dad, people like that will finally get on | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
the housing ladder. That is complete nonsense. We need a sustainable | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
housing market where there is a large amount of construction, like | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
in the 1930s for example, where large numbers of proper family homes | :22:11. | :22:19. | |
were being built for people. House prices were pushed down and people | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
could afford houses. You are now encouraging people to take out a 95% | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
mortgage, I thought that was a bad idea, so supposing interest rates go | :22:29. | :22:38. | |
struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford. | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
95% mortgage, if you can afford interest rates that I cannot afford. | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
repayments, you will be fine. What happens when interest rates rise? | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
They have got to rise a lot before you get into trouble. People are | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
already affording rent which is you get into trouble. People are | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into | :23:09. | :23:16. | |
this scheme unless you can afford repayments double what they are | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
this scheme unless you can afford the moment. The Conservatives should | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
limelight last week but there was an unwelcome intruder in the shape | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
limelight last week but there was an row between Ed Miliband and the | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the claiming that Ed Miliband's Father | :23:33. | :23:41. | |
Ralph hated Britain. They showed a picture of his father's gravestone | :23:41. | :23:48. | |
with the caption, grave socialist. They then removed the photo and | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
with the caption, grave socialist. Ed Miliband the right to reply on | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
printed an editorial alongside it saying they stood by every word | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
printed an editorial alongside it published an fair headline. It also | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
reporter had gate-crashed a private memorial service for Ed Miliband's | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
uncle in a London hospital, for which the paper has now apologised, | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the hard look at the way his papers | :24:15. | :24:23. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the run. This comes a week before a | :24:23. | :24:31. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the Joining us now from Hull, John | :24:31. | :24:31. | |
Prescott. Does this row between Joining us now from Hull, John | :24:31. | :24:42. | |
reinforce the case for tough, new certainly influences the opinion | :24:42. | :24:49. | |
about that but that is more of Paul Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
about that but that is more of Paul while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:53. | :24:54. | |
sure my complaints were nothing while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
do with press regulation and he while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
right. This argument is not about politicians and media people, it is | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
about ordinary people that love politicians and media people, it is | :25:07. | :25:16. | |
and dealt with. All of these cases affected individual people and they | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
are the ones that need to have justice in this matter. Next week we | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
will be hearing whether the Privy Council will be reporting on the | :25:26. | :25:33. | |
proposal to replace it. Are you agreeing then that what the mail did | :25:33. | :25:49. | |
with its Miliband article was a matter of judgement? Yes, and the | :25:49. | :26:02. | |
with its Miliband article was a conclusion that the relationship | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
between the press, the police and politicians should be governed, | :26:05. | :26:13. | |
between the press, the police and proposal given by half the press | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
industry that that does not meet the Leveson requirement and I suspect | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
the Privy Council this week will have to reject that, and I hope | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
the Privy Council this week will will because it is not consistent | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
with the Leveson report which the Prime Minister said he supported. | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
You attacked the mail in your column today but your paper went through | :26:34. | :26:40. | |
the Cameron family bins to see what nappies they used for their disabled | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily Mail wrote about | :26:45. | :26:46. | |
Ralph Miliband? It probably is, than what the Daily Mail wrote about | :26:46. | :26:56. | |
couldn't defend that. I have had Haven't we all? Yes, but we are | :26:56. | :27:09. | |
editors who acts unilaterally. Paul Dacre is running this thing in the | :27:09. | :27:23. | |
judgement and some accountability which the press have accepted the | :27:23. | :27:33. | |
old PCC is no good. They are playing for time because if they reject | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
old PCC is no good. They are playing this week there is 12 months until | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
you can consider a parliamentary alternative and then you are near | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
the election and you begin to bully the leaders. That is how they have | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
been successful in putting off recommendations. Maybe my memory is | :27:48. | :27:58. | |
fading but did you or anybody else in the Labour Party object to the | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't know about it. I would just say it | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
is wrong if that is what they did. As you said, you have the same | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
position when they go through your rubbish bins, I think that is wrong. | :28:13. | :28:19. | |
We have Leveson set up by the Prime Minister to look at the cultures and | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
practices and the unilateral action of editors and he came forward with | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
a proposal that was agreed in Parliament under a compromise of the | :28:27. | :28:39. | |
Royal Charter. I don't like a Royal Charter, it is not democratic | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
frankly, but we have agreed to go along with it so why did the | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
Government set up in charge at the same time rushed through the press | :28:44. | :28:51. | |
box? It looks like a fix, like they are using the Royal Charter as a | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
means of delaying everything. They have now said they are going to | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
introduce their own independent charter. This industry does not want | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
to face up to any form of accountability. We know Alistair | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
Campbell and Ed Miliband's officers accountability. We know Alistair | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
are working closely on the assault of the Mail. What is the endgame for | :29:14. | :29:24. | |
this? Is it the head of Paul Dacre? He is not an acceptable character to | :29:24. | :29:36. | |
me, and he needs to be taking account. When Ed Miliband rang me it | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
was to say, don't let these arguments drift into press | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
regulation, he wanted the argument of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband | :29:44. | :29:58. | |
after Paul Dacre's head? No, he can stay there. It is like with Murdoch, | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
after Paul Dacre's head? No, he can we were not attacking him but what | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
is papers were doing. To that extent, what they are doing about | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
ordinary people, not just big politicians who can look after | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
themselves. We know, with the bad cases he had to deal with, they | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
might get libel action, which the press say, but they pretty well | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
destroyed their lives. That is about judgment. If you say, as Paul Dacre | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
got good judgment? I would say no, he will have to live with it. | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
Thank you for joining us, he did not even have to go to the BBC studios, | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
we sent a truck there for him. What is the endgame in this? Whether the | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
Labour Party is trying to make this an issue press regulation are not, | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
this is where it is going. We have the criminal trial involving Andy | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
Coulson coming up, the Privy Council discussing press radiation before | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
the end of the year, and the question is, what is political | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
impact? My hunch, it is an unfashionable view, is that the | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
total at yum elated political impact of the Leveson story over the past | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
several years, hacking and everything, is close to zero, | :31:02. | :31:09. | |
because most voters do not care, and those who do care believe that all | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
parties are roughly complicit in being too close to editors and | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
proprietors. You said that Adam Afriyie was a Labour mould, with a | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
smile. Is the Daily Mail also a Labour mole? This has been a dream | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
for Ed Miliband, I took on Murdoch, I am taking on the energy companies | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
and now the evil Daily Mail! I think... I should say I used to work | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
for the Daily Mail, but when they printed the right of reply, they | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
surrounded it with a big two fingers up at Ed. If they had not done | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
surrounded it with a big two fingers that, they would not be in this | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
position. The poll in the Sunday Times this morning shows 72% think | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
the Daily Mail was wrong and backed Mr Miliband's demand for an apology. | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
If you come to define and your dad, people are naturally going to do | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
this, but it took all the coverage away from the Tory conference, the | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
media loves covering itself, here we are doing it again, this has been a | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
dream for Mr Miliband. The political significance of this is that David | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
Cameron said in the House of Commons that he wanted to try to find some | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
common ground between the three party Royal Charter and the | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
so-called press industry version. What the Daily Mail has done is | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
ensured that the Prime Minister is not going to be able to do that. | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
What is going to happen this week is that the press Royal Charter has to | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
be considered first, and that will probably be rejected. The Privy | :32:35. | :32:41. | |
Council will reject it. Then the three party Royal Charter will come | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
up, but meanwhile the press will set up their own regulatory body because | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
the Royal Charter is not a proper statutory underpinning, they will be | :32:51. | :32:52. | |
able to go ahead with that. There statutory underpinning, they will be | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
will be the legal basis for the oversight of the oversight body, and | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
it will basically just be an ambassador that will not be | :33:01. | :33:07. | |
resolved. As you say, no-one much cares about this outside of the | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
profession and a few media watchers. But this has been great politics for | :33:10. | :33:18. | |
Ed Miliband. It is only great politics if he scores a great | :33:18. | :33:25. | |
victory. I take your view that people are cynical about it. But the | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
narrative is, I am the chap who stands up to vested interests. But | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
all those vested interests are people that you would expect a | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
left-wing politician to want to take on. It is also more significant | :33:36. | :33:45. | |
about who he has stood up for, and the person he has studied for is his | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
father. Maybe people thought of him as a Marxist, now they think of him | :33:48. | :33:54. | |
as war hero. He gets to the crux of matters, you know! You are watching | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will be | :34:00. | :34:01. | |
Welcome to Sunday Politics South. My speaking to Godfrey | :34:01. | :34:14. | |
Welcome to Sunday Politics South. My name is Peter Henley. On today's | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
show: Local banking for local folk. It's how the Germans do it, and look | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
how well their economy's going. It's also something the Germans say they | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
got from us, so could we grab the idea back again? And could local | :34:27. | :34:36. | |
councils get a piece of the action? First, let's meet the politicians | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
with us for the next 20 minutes. He said Dodds the Labour candidate in | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
the South East for the Labour —— for the European elections, and we have | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
the MP for Bournemouth West. A lot of policies out of the conferences, | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
more from Labour, the energy capital is the Liberal Democrats, free | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
school meals, plastic bags tax. The Conservatives, learn or earn, this | :34:59. | :35:06. | |
idea that if you are under 25, you are not entitled to benefits, why | :35:06. | :35:13. | |
not? The point the Prime Minister was making was automatic. It should | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
not be automatic for somebody to leave school and go straight to | :35:16. | :35:23. | |
benefits and get a flat or house. Because they have not paid into the | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
pot? It is the wrong thing for them, they should be in training or | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
education. The government will work with them to make that happen, | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
creating what apprenticeships than in the history of the country, young | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
people should aspire to that and not a life in benefits. Finding jobs | :35:38. | :35:45. | |
would also be important, but the Conservatives, 1.4 million new | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
private sector jobs. But what quality? A large proportion of | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
part—time jobs and we have the largest amount of underemployment | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
ever, people wanting to work more hours. But to take issue, there is | :35:59. | :36:05. | |
such a pressure on housing in the South East that very few young | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
people allegedly leave school and go to get a flat or house, that is | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
cloud cuckoo land! That situation does not exist because there is not | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
enough housing. For many young people, the situation is to live | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
with their parents, having no choice, and trying to find work | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
because we have 1 million young unemployed people. So people who are | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
working right a disadvantage because they do not get housing benefit. | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
They do. Majority of people on housing benefit are either retired | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
people or they are working. Some people get benefits who are | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
unemployed but a majority who get housing benefit working or they are | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
pensioners and that is often missed out of this debate. A lot of people | :36:52. | :36:58. | |
getting housing benefit are on low wages or they cannot get enough | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
hours at work or they are on zero hours contracts so they do not have | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
stability to pay the rent. Was taking benefits away part of a | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
hardline message to win votes rather than something genuine? It is part | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
of the overall package of Iain Duncan Smith. He is committed to | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
social justice and opportunity for people in this country. There is a | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
sense the benefits system has grown too big and compensated. Under | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
Labour, people were entitled to tax credit who were earning up to | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
£60,000, that is not what the Balfour —— that is not what the | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
welfare report intended. We are putting it on the side of | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
hard—working people. We will get a chance to talk more about that. | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
If you're of a certain age, you might actually remember the days | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
when the local bank manager was someone who was someone in their | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
local community. Nowadays, you're more likely to have a business | :37:55. | :37:57. | |
relationship with your bank's call centre or computer system. But in | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
Germany, they have maintained that local connection between banks and | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
the businesses in their area. And as our business correspondent Alastair | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
Fee has been finding out, many would argue that is the reason for their | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
economic success. Celebrating with a litre of good | :38:09. | :38:20. | |
Bavarian beer! Others in Europe have been crippled by debt and rising | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
unemployment, but not much has changed here and that is worth | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
drinking too. And the secret ingredient is not change, it is | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
about tradition. 48,000 bottles per hour. This man 's family have been | :38:34. | :38:41. | |
bottling here since the 19th century and employers keep those controlling | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
flow of money close. So to host a party with the bank manager is not | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
unusual. You stay in the region you are proud of so you focus on the | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
region and strengthen it. When we needed money, it was no problem to | :38:54. | :39:01. | |
ask the bank to get the money quickly. They knew the family, they | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
knew the security, they knew the character, they are very | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
Conservative, and that is why we get it without a problem. Almost every | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
time —— town and village in Germany has at least one local wine with a | :39:16. | :39:23. | |
remit to support the community. —1 local bank. | :39:23. | :39:52. | |
This is nothing new here, local banking began in Germany in the 19th | :39:52. | :39:59. | |
century. But it started in the UK and they were eventually swallowed | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
up by the big High Street banks. There are now calls to bring local | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
banking back. This is why, the money is available for everybody, keeping | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
independent businesses going into of times. Since slashed year, I have | :40:12. | :40:20. | |
had a lot of money. And you have gone over the road to your local | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
bank? I go to the local bank, yes. I have a friend on the other side. | :40:26. | :40:32. | |
They help me. They understand me and it is not a gangster. You do not | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
want to sell me something I do not need! During the crisis in 2008, | :40:38. | :40:52. | |
2010, we forced credit in this time and our business customers could | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
continue to work. They could invest and there was no trouble. No trouble | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
because bank managers know who they are lending to and make visits to | :41:02. | :41:14. | |
see customers working locally. With the government and with Sparkasse, | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
we built a new form. In Germany, there was no credit crunch, the | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
Sparkasse did each job. Stepping in when High Street banks could not | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
help. This engineering firm was set up and expand to the downturn. And | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
how the bash in 2010, he used our loan to start up his business. He | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
built this whole and set up the —— and set up these machines. His | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
success is our success. This is banking for life, generations invest | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
and take out mortgages, and they start young. These children will | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
soon be customers and today they were on a trip to see the vault. So | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
it seems the Germans have more reason to celebrate than most. I | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
value in tradition, money has continued to flow almost as freely | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
as the beer. As others in Europe have gone under, it is the | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
traditional banks credited with having kept the economy afloat. | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
And they all spoke marvellous English except for the bank manager | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
who I guessed was talking to his local people so he did not need to! | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
Joining me now is Professor Richard Werner, from the University of | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
Southampton, who is one of the leading lights in a plan to set up | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
the Hampshire Community Bank, modelled on those local German | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
banks. The Germans of use I have a long history, they knew the family. | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
He was a count, but they knew them going back generations, can you | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
recreate that model without a good local knowledge? Not without the | :42:44. | :42:51. | |
local knowledge. But that is in the local community. That means the | :42:51. | :42:56. | |
local community has to self generate something new, a local bank. The | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
locals know each other and you need to get the locals to set up their | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
own local bank. But it is trust, which is easy to save difficult on | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
both sides. If you are a business owner and you want to be certain you | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
will be supported and your business is understood, if you are lending | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
money, people are always optimistic about what they want. Have you | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
really got the level of expertise in the local community to do this? The | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
relationship is different to a Dragons' Den situation. The small | :43:31. | :43:39. | |
lower Bavarian town I grew up in that we have just seen, from | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
childhood onwards, you know the bank and the bank managers. When the | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
first loan applications come in, perhaps young people setting up a | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
firm, a bank manager knows them, they know the bank manager, they | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
know he knows their parents, not just where they live. This is a | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
trust relationship. That creates a different situation. People do not | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
want to take money and run, so lenders know that. Trust goes from | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
both sides far deeper, and that makes people more able to look at | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
the business facts. You want to see this recreated in this country which | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
does not have that history you describe. It does have the history. | :44:21. | :44:29. | |
It is a British idea. Like many ideas, generated in England and the | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
UK, and perhaps other countries have run with it and done something | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
bigger. And we have forgotten it. Other people who could be trusted to | :44:38. | :44:45. | |
get the money and lend it? The first Sparkasse banks were set up in the | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
UK in 1810, the early 19th century. And the model was taken to Germany | :44:49. | :44:57. | |
and it caught on. But the savings banks spread a lot in the UK. And | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
there is one left from that era in Scotland. I think it is not really a | :45:01. | :45:10. | |
problem to recreate this. You need is extraordinary. The know—how is | :45:10. | :45:16. | |
there. —— the need. People are highly qualified in the financial | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
services, we just need to put these elements together and reunite the | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
banking experts with their local community and not transfer them away | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
after three years to another part of the country and allow them to stay | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
in their local community. It would work very well. The suggestion in | :45:33. | :45:41. | |
Bill must —— or maths and many other parts of the South is that taxpayers | :45:41. | :45:48. | |
money could be used to do this. —— in Bournemouth. But Labour like to | :45:48. | :45:54. | |
see that? Labour has been asking for a regional system for a long time | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
and had merely bound —— Ed Miliband made that part of our policy. That | :46:00. | :46:06. | |
is not the same as Sparkasse. Not necessarily, be is regional banks | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
would have a larger focus. But a work based on many of the same | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
principles that have just been discussed by the Professor. To be | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
more open to local projects, but using local knowledge to make key | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
business decisions. We have a real crisis of lending at the moment and | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
I am sure Connor is finding this, speaking to small people with good | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
ideas who cannot expand. That is what we need. The problem is still | :46:33. | :46:40. | |
here. We have been talking about this in Bournemouth and the council | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
is doing this, working to create a new bank. The big banks in decades | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
gone by did behave in this model whether bank model was part of the | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
community, they knew the community and they lent not on the basis of a | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
computer calculation but of trust and knowledge. That has gone. I see | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
every week in my surgery companies who have overdraft facilities with | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
it the bank which comes up for renewal, they are hit with charges | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
and massively increased rates of interest. These are decent | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
businesses, some have been in families for generations, that is | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
something customer focused banks would help with enormously. The big | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
banks not going to fight back and say, or we can do this cheaper? We | :47:25. | :47:31. | |
will lend you cheaper, you do not have to go to these guys who were | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
wanted to visit your pick from! They welcome to do that but they have | :47:34. | :47:41. | |
voluntarily decided not to engage. So if as a result of the creation of | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
local banks the big thanks also change that business model, the | :47:45. | :47:52. | |
better. But as banks grow large, and they have grown very large in the | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
UK, over 90% of deposits accounted for by five banks with massive | :47:57. | :48:03. | |
balance sheet and reams of pounds, —— ballot sheet and billions of | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
power, —— pounds, so every cost of dismissed deals we make, they do not | :48:11. | :48:18. | |
want to deal with small customers —— dismissed deals. So banks mainly | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
deal with hedge funds is and do speculative loans. It has got to | :48:22. | :48:29. | |
change and the banks spend their whole time trying to sell you | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
something you do not want in the first place. We hope it is a bit | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
more focused. And you can see more on that story | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
throughout the week on South Today at 6:30. Well, the conference season | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
is over, the lobbyists have packed up their stalls and the party | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
faithful are back in their constituencies preparing for battle | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
in the European elections next year. The Conservatives brought down the | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
curtain earlier in the week, just what sort of fettle were their | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
activists in after their time in Manchester? | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
Outside, they were protesting about fat cats, but inside, she would like | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
to be the apprentice of the Chancellor. Karren Brady was the | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
warm up to George Osborne who was basking in the glow of an economy on | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
the up. What we inherited was a record | :49:11. | :49:17. | |
budget deficit, we got that down by a third. With the policies in place, | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
there are an extra 1.4 million jobs since the general election in the | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
private sector. And we are seeing growth returning to the economy. | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
Manchester 's shiny new trams are driving the local. The argument | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
David Cameron makes for HS two. But the plan seemed more running out of | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
steam at the conference. There is opposition to this, we have | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
thousands of supporters supporting our campaign and the debate is | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
changing. It has changed. Since last year when nobody knew about this, it | :49:50. | :49:57. | |
is a current topic, it is in the media, people are talking about it | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
and we welcome a proper debate. Opposition to the high—speed rail | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
line could give UKIP their first Westminster seats. Their leader | :50:04. | :50:10. | |
claimed this week. He said he would be happy with local deals. Could | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
that happen? This woman defected to UKIP this year and until then, she | :50:16. | :50:25. | |
had worked closely with the party. A believe UKIP grassroots would not be | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
happy with this because people in UKIP believe they want to be an | :50:28. | :50:34. | |
option. They do not want the three main parties, they want a fourth | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
party and we give them what they want. The businesses exhibiting here | :50:40. | :50:46. | |
cannot be so sceptical about Europe. The clever photography puts you in | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
the seat of the new Airbus. This parent company also owns a | :50:49. | :50:56. | |
Portsmouth satellite company and another based in Oxfordshire. What | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
is a good conversation with a Minister here? We are a business. We | :51:00. | :51:06. | |
want to be successful. But it —— but it is not just about the money, we | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
want people to know what we do. They are on the up and the green shoots | :51:11. | :51:18. | |
of recovery continue. At this Berks charity making up parcels for people | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
recovering from illness. Punting a seed, panting manure, standard | :51:22. | :51:28. | |
stuff! —— planting. Not so much in your spread among the | :51:28. | :51:34. | |
politicians! Was this a warm up to the general election was to mark | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
normally, conferences do not matter and they are forgotten in days. This | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
conference season did matter. We started to seep the differences | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
between the political parties. When Margaret Thatcher was in 2002 asked | :51:49. | :51:57. | |
what her greatest achievement was, she said, Tony Blair and new Labour, | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
we forced our opponents to change. It became safe to vote Labour. Ed | :52:01. | :52:07. | |
Miliband in Brighton last week was asked a question, are you going to | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
bring back socialism? His cancer was, that is what we are doing, sir. | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
They committed to price fixing. —— his answer. There are big | :52:18. | :52:26. | |
differences in British politics. So the Labour conference was by far the | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
most important? I do not agree with the analysis but it was important. | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
What surprised me is that finally, we have a coalition talking about | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
living standards and it has taken three years where wages have been | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
falling faster than prices for 38 out of the last 39 months for the | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
coalition to finally start talking about living standards. So I am | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
pleased. If Ed Miliband has been talking about this or this time and | :52:53. | :53:00. | |
that makes him a socialist, I am surprised! He is saying, we will not | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
stand for this hit on living standards. He is standing up to | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
energy companies which have been allowed to rip people off for too | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
long. Is he not saying he is on the side of the people? He is very good | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
with rhetoric and we need to remember who was the energy | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
secretary in the last government who set the conditions we are operating | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
under, Ed Miliband, he did nothing in office. And more humility —— and | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
mortality about the desperate state of the economy left to the coalition | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
would be more becoming. Given the economy was growing when Labour left | :53:37. | :53:43. | |
office, that is a strange claim. 38 out of 39 months, wages have been | :53:43. | :53:49. | |
falling. It is an economy growing now. | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
It is, I am not going to talk down the economy, one major problem we | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
have had is we have had a relentlessly negative rhetoric | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
coming out which has sought to demand out of the economy. It has | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
been coming from the government. —— sucked demand. We have 1.4 million | :54:05. | :54:11. | |
new jobs. If you look at other countries doing better than Britain, | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
you wonder what is going wrong here. Coalition Britain is doing | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
better than Labour. That is not true. | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
Now our regular round—up of the political week in the South in 60 | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
seconds. New laws to prevent stolen scrap | :54:25. | :54:35. | |
metal sold on came into force this week. All dealers must be licensed. | :54:35. | :54:42. | |
This project is to make the Isle of Wight self—sufficient in energy went | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
into liquidation, naming a lack of investment. | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
They have tried to develop a brilliant idea, there are others who | :54:49. | :54:54. | |
may be more successful. Major crime scenes in Dorset will be | :54:54. | :55:00. | |
guarded by private security guards. The former remand trial was | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
criticised by the Police Federation. Student unions will provide wardens | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
to curb social —— anti—social behaviour in Bournemouth, visitors | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
say they dread the start of a new term. We have four young children | :55:11. | :55:17. | |
who have been woken up every night. It is constant, it starts Tuesday | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
night and you only get Monday night respite. 80 million journeys are | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
made on First Great Western trains in the Thames Valley, more than go | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
through Heathrow Airport, the company has given a two year | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
extension to its contract. Talking about university students, | :55:35. | :55:41. | |
you know working in a university, it is difficult for people living | :55:41. | :55:46. | |
nearby? It is, definitely. Particularly when there is so much | :55:46. | :55:50. | |
pressure on housing and you find there is a proliferation of houses | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
in multiple occupation. Eight out of ten in one road, they were saying. | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
But Labour will build more houses, 200,000? Too little too late, some | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
would say, you should have done it years ago. I would agree with that | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
but I would not say it is too little. Labour is also doing locally | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
in places like Oxford, they are regulating landlords who make so | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
much money out of this. If help to buy going to help? For others | :56:20. | :56:27. | |
wanting to move out of home? The warden think you saw is absolutely | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
fantastic and is helping to bridge the divide between residents and | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
students. They help to buy scheme will do what it says, it will help | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
people to buy and the participation in offering the 90% mortgage | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
products, that should help. We need more houses to be built, Labour did | :56:45. | :56:50. | |
very little in 13 years on housing but we have to be cautious we do not | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
end up stoking a housing bubble in the South East and London. Prices | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
are stagnant in many other parts of the country and there is a lot of | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
land supply there. That is it, thank you to my guests, | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
back We are getting into a discussion of | :57:04. | :57:04. | |
more affordable homes needed, but we We are getting into a discussion of | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
have no time. Andrew, back to you. Our next guest is no stranger to | :57:09. | :57:20. | |
controversy, a former UKIP MEP he recently lost his party's whip after | :57:20. | :57:41. | |
a series of outbursts including receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land' | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
and joking that a group of UKIP women who didn't clean behind their | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
fridges were 'sluts'. Now he sits in independent but remains a UKIP party | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
member. Here's a flavour of recent events in the political life of | :57:53. | :58:03. | |
Godfrey Bloom. How you can possibly be giving £1 million a month... | :58:03. | :58:13. | |
Bongo Bongo Land. I got 6000 e-mails within 12 hours, only 47 were not | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
agreeing with me so you are the within 12 hours, only 47 were not | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
that is out of touch. Everybody knows me, a bit like the Marmite | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
joke, they love me or they hate knows me, a bit like the Marmite | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
but I have always told me like it is. I made a joke and said that | :58:27. | :58:38. | |
women who did not clean behind the French were sluts and everybody | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
laughed along, including the women. I have had hundreds of e-mails, | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
saying, God Almighty, can't you I have had hundreds of e-mails, | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
a joke any more? I am long in the correctness and I understand UKIP | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
have moved on and they are doing well, and I wish them well. This, | :58:56. | :59:10. | |
with no black faces on it. You are picking people out for the colour of | :59:10. | :59:16. | |
with no black faces on it. You are their skin? You disgust me! Perhaps | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
the way they are doing things now is disgrace me. We are joined now with | :59:19. | :59:27. | |
a suitable distance between us by the independent MEP for Yorkshire | :59:27. | :59:34. | |
and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You said this weekend that you have | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You be a complete sociopath to be in | :59:39. | :59:48. | |
politics, are you a sociopath? No, I am just an ordinary bloke from the | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
rugby club likes to tell it as it is. I did not come into politics to | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
rugby club likes to tell it as it save my country from the clutches of | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
the awful, evil... That is why I am in politics, and that is why I | :00:00. | :00:06. | |
member, and I will still be voting ability... Do you accept that your | :00:06. | :00:14. | |
conference? We were both born in ability... Do you accept that your | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
same year, we are too old to worry about regrets. Let's look forward | :00:21. | :00:27. | |
and see... Never mind the year I was born, what is the answer to my | :00:27. | :00:35. | |
country and intent to do the best I independent for my country, and | :00:35. | :00:42. | |
country and intent to do the best I re-elected. They are the only game | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
in town, the only party that will get as out. Shouldn't you have been | :00:45. | :00:54. | |
liability? You hijacked the party conference. That is a matter of | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
perception. We have heard nothing in the last two years but it is a | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
one-man band, a Nigel Farage party, and I can make a joke at a fringe | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
meeting and collapse the whole thing. This doesn't say anything | :01:06. | :01:14. | |
Andrew. It tells you about your journalism - it is not about UKIP or | :01:14. | :01:23. | |
me, it was the journalists' reaction to a small joke at a meeting. And | :01:23. | :01:29. | |
myself, unless I had a commended. Personality, the most unbelievable | :01:30. | :01:43. | |
force of personality to collapse a party conference. Nigel Farage has | :01:43. | :01:56. | |
been a friend of mine for 20 years, and may I remind you that in June | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
and July UK was slipping in the polls, and when I made my statement | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
about overseas aid, we went back to liability, I never was, I am a vote | :02:06. | :02:13. | |
getter. As you know, there is a correlation, but let me show you | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
what Nigel Farage had to say about you on the BBC. Let's blunder clip | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
of that. We are not here to win friends amongst the liberal elite, | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
and Godfrey's problem was that he manifesto. Don't you need to reflect | :02:30. | :02:39. | |
that you are too outrageous, too politically incorrect even for UKIP? | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
Well, you see, to a certain extent I politically incorrect even for UKIP? | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
have been gagged on other subjects. I am a libertarian, I wanted to | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
have been gagged on other subjects. about flat tax. I thought David | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
Aronowitz wrote a very good piece in the times on drugs, and I have been | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
gagged to speak about any of these things because they are not part of | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
it, so I tend to speak about other things. Maybe they have outgrown | :03:01. | :03:10. | |
machine, and they have to get rid of the Victor Meldrew wing. You might | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
have a point, but I am speaking the Victor Meldrew wing. You might | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
you from Hull, and if you look at Barnsley, and very recently in | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
Scarborough and Whitby in the buy legends, 25%, so how you see things | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
in the bubble, it is not like how we see it appear in Yorkshire. You | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
in the bubble, it is not like how we like the one who was sitting in | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
in the bubble, it is not like how we bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of | :03:35. | :03:35. | |
course it isn't, we are getting bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
of the vote in by-elections, of course it is not. Boy, wouldn't | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
of the vote in by-elections, of main parties and the establishment | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
love to see that! But I am sorry, it is not happening. Will you stand as | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
an independence against UKIP in is not happening. Will you stand as | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
European elections? Almost certainly elections were next week, I could | :03:55. | :04:07. | |
do not think I will go that route. Will you stand as a UKIP candidate | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
again? We do not know, probably Will you stand as a UKIP candidate | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
but I shall certainly be trying Will you stand as a UKIP candidate | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
help UKIP as best I can. You both share a flat, I understand, in | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
Brussels, neither of you clean behind the fridge. Other than the | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
fact that the place is probably quite murky, you have got a chance | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
to talk to each other and get back into his good graces, haven't you? I | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
am sure we will be having a beer before the month is out. So Godfrey | :04:34. | :04:44. | |
take it? For those of you who were shrugged! Thank you very much for | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
joining. A great pleasure. I will have to move my own share, you do | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
not have the sea Jeremy Paxman doing that! Nobody votes for UKIP because | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
they think they are a smooth, slick, absence of PR polish is the reason | :05:00. | :05:07. | |
for their popularity, so these are skirmishes are not a problem, and | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
more than that, Godfrey Bloom does make Nigel Farage look better. Even | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
in that clip from Andrew Marr, he juxtaposition with someone like | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
Godfrey Bloom than he has done before. I mean, he did hijacked | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
Godfrey Bloom than he has done conference, it was a disaster, they | :05:25. | :05:25. | |
got tonnes of publicity but not conference, it was a disaster, they | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
kind they wanted. But you have to journalists. I thought he was sexist | :05:29. | :05:37. | |
long before anyone else, he used to have an incredible page on his | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
website entitled Godfrey Bloom: Misogynist, and the proof that he | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
photographed with a girls' rugby characters in politics. He does | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
photographed with a girls' rugby Nigel Farage look better, but is sin | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
was to say things you said before but to ruin the party conference. It | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
sounds like he is coming back. A beer in Brussels and he will be | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
sounds like he is coming back. A on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a | :06:06. | :06:06. | |
beer in that built the Chechen, on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
sounds like it may be what the deal is that he comes back into UKIP | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
sounds like it may be what the deal does not stand as an MEP at the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
European Parliamentary elections. -- in that built the kitchen. It is | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
right to say the electorate are sophisticated and they know what | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
this party is for, what characters Godfrey Bloom said for people to | :06:25. | :06:33. | |
electorate know what they go using UKIP four. They are using it as | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
electorate know what they go using vehicle to beat over the head the | :06:37. | :06:37. | |
three established parties. They vehicle to beat over the head the | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
probably do it in the European elections and give them first place. | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
The big question is what happens in problem that Nigel Farage was making | :06:44. | :06:55. | |
The big question is what happens in an Andrew Marr this morning is that | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
he wants to copy the tactics of an Andrew Marr this morning is that | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
he wants to copy the tactics of Paddy Ashdown, get elected and | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
councils, build up a Parliamentary base, and to do that you do need | :07:00. | :07:01. | |
Commons next week, and there is base, and to do that you do need | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
ministerial reshuffle on the cards, that is the rumour in Westminster. | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
David Cameron has spoken of the that is the rumour in Westminster. | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
David Cameron has spoken of the extraordinary talent pool of women | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
among his ministers, so could he bring more of them into the cabinet? | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
He was talking about it earlier bring more of them into the cabinet? | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
week. I think we are getting there in Britain, but we have a long way | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
businesses in Britain, there are not boardroom. If you look at politics | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
in Britain, there aren't nearly enough women around the Cabinet | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
table. So I think, in every walk of life, whether it is the judiciary, | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
whether it is politics, business, there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
the last election, we only had there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
women Members of Parliament. We there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
have around 50, so we have made there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
big change, but it is still 50 out of 300, not nearly enough. So we | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to say, if you don't have women in | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to places, you're not just missing | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to missing out on a lot more than | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to of the talent, and I think she | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to probably has a point. The prime | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to there going to be a reshuffle? I | :08:14. | :08:14. | |
think you are right to say there there going to be a reshuffle? I | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
will be a lot more women, they need to change the ratio of women to | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
will be a lot more women, they need called Dave who went to maudlin | :08:25. | :08:33. | |
college. So obviously they are not fishing in the biggest talent pool, | :08:33. | :08:43. | |
but there are numbers. Esther McVey has been selling a very difficult | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
brief in work and pensions, you could see people being given bigger | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
roles. Helen is pretty sure. We could see people being given bigger | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
told it is not a Cabinet level reshuffle me it is under Secretary | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
level, so maybe you could put Esther McVey into the Cabinet. Margot | :08:57. | :09:05. | |
James, who you had here not that long ago, she is very impressive. | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
What is impressive is that some long ago, she is very impressive. | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
like Andrea Leadsom, who is really impressive, worked in the City, | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
like Andrea Leadsom, who is really smart, really big on important | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
intervention, she should still be in there, but she fell out with George | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
Osborne when she dared to criticise him a few years ago over Ed Balls | :09:23. | :09:33. | |
you are doing it on talent, Andrea expectation, if he does not do this | :09:33. | :09:41. | |
now, a tonne of bricks will fall on him. He has got no excuse not to | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
promote women, because the 2010 intake was disproportionately female | :09:48. | :09:56. | |
in terms of talent. The question of the Tories and the struggle with | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
women voters is a very deep and historic one. You have to remember | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
that for most of the post-war period they had an advantage electorally | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
amongst women voters. Many times Conservative government without | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
amongst women voters. Many times women of this country. This began to | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
change in the mid-1990s, and the question is, why has that happened? | :10:14. | :10:21. | |
personalities at the top are now much more hostile to women, or less, | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
personalities at the top are now Brent doubled to female voters? | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
personalities at the top are now is such a deep historical trend | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
personalities at the top are now I do not think one reshuffle will | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
change it. -- or less competent civil. The English party conference | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
season is over, do you share the consensus view that Ed Miliband | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
season is over, do you share the out best of the three party leaders? | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
I think I probably do, but his overall approval ratings are still | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus ten. And the more the recovery seems | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus to take place, and some of the | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
latest figures are quite amazing, they certainly surprised me, you | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
wonder whether Labour's tactic is right to put all their eggs into the | :11:07. | :11:14. | |
living standards basket. I was looking at car sales, which are | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
booming. If people start to feel better, and they don't yet, but | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
booming. If people start to feel they were, it is tougher to go on | :11:22. | :11:30. | |
about living standards. George Osborne's... You have Ed Miliband | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
making a great thing about living standards, but then they say under | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
their breath, this is global forces, outstripping wage increases. And | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
you're absolutely right, as the economy improves, presumably that | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
will be dealt with, but Miliband's argument will be that there are | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
people suffering, and even if the economy recovers, they will still | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
forces, it is difficult to blame the government for that. Body being | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
noticed now, there is nothing worse for the leader of the opposition | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
than to be not noticed. -- but he is being noticed now. It seems that he | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
in many ways has set the political weather. Look at the number of | :12:11. | :12:12. | |
references to the Labour leader weather. Look at the number of | :12:12. | :12:18. | |
Mr Cameron's speech. And in Mr Obama's speech on a similar topic, | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
living standards. Was the mentioning Ed Miliband?! Oh, he was using the | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
same language, he has not gone that far. If I were Ed Miliband, I would | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
be more worried now, because Labour through the kitchen sink at their | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
conference. They came out with the biggest policy announcements they | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
could, compulsory apprenticeships, the energy freeze on prices, and it | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
generated a poll boost which has fizzled away within ten days. I | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
generated a poll boost which has not know where they go from here. | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
What is significant with Ed Miliband conference beaches, he has set the | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
one nation Britain, and the problem with those speeches is people say, | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
they are fine, they are academic, but what does it mean? What you | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
they are fine, they are academic, now is an intellectual framework | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
that translates into policies. The polls to watch are not the ones | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
after the conferences, but at the end of the month when it has also | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
pulled down. They will tell us where we are going. We will have to go | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
ourselves now. Thank you to our guests. The Daily Politics will | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
ourselves now. Thank you to our back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two, | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
and I will be back on BBC One this time, same time, next week. If it is | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. | :13:37. | :13:39. |