Browse content similar to 27/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Hope you enjoyed | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
the extra hour in bed, and that you've realised it's not 12:45. It's | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
11:45! It's getting stormy outside. But they're already battening down | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
the hatches at Number Ten because coalition splits are back, with | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
bust-ups over free schools and power bills. We'll speak to the Lib Dems, | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
and ask Labour who's conning whom over energy. | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
EU leaders have been meeting in Brussels. But how's David Cameron | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
getting on with that plan to change our relationship with Europe? We | :01:05. | :01:14. | |
were there to ask him. Have we got any powers back yet? DS! | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
Foreign companies own everything from our energy companies to our | :01:19. | :01:19. | |
railways. Does it matter In the South: How much say do you | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
have if someone wants to build a power station at the end of your | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
street? Will localism triumph? Is power with | :01:30. | :01:31. | |
the people or the developers? as many daily journeys made by bus | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
than by tube, so why is the planned investment in buses not keeping | :01:37. | :01:44. | |
pace? And with me, three journalists | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
who've bravely agreed to hunker down in the studio while Britain braces | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
itself for massive storm winds, tweeting their political forecasts | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
with all the accuracy of Michael Fish on hurricane watch. Helen | :01:52. | :01:59. | |
Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt. Now, sometimes coalition splits are | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
over-egged, or dare we say even occasionally stage-managed. But this | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
week, we've seen what looks like the genuine article. It turns out Nick | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
Clegg has his doubts about the coalition's flagship free schools | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
policy. David Cameron doesn't much like the green levies on our energy | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
bills championed by the Lib Dems. Neither of them seems to have | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
bothered to tell the other that they had their doubts. Who better to | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
discuss these flare-ups than Lib Dem Deputy Leader Simon Hughes? He joins | :02:26. | :02:35. | |
me now. Welcome. Good morning. The Lib Dems spent three years of | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
sticking up for the coalition when times were grim. Explain to me the | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
logic of splitting from them when times look better. We will stick | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
with it for five years. It is working arrangement, but not | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
surprisingly, where there right areas on which we disagree over | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
where to go next, we will stand up. It is going to be hard enough for | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
the Lib Dems to get any credit for the recovery, what ever it is. It | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
will be even harder if you seem to be semidetached and picky. The | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
coalition has led on economic policy, some of which were entirely | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
from our stable. The one you have heard about most often, a Lib Dem | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
initiative, was to take people on blowing comes out of tax. The | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
recovery would not have happened, there would not have been confidence | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
in Britain, had there not been a coalition government with us in it, | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
making sure the same policies produced fair outcomes. We are not | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
going to leave the credit for any growth - and there has been very | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
good news this week. We have played a part in that, and without us, it | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
would not have happened. Does it not underline the trust problem you | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
have? You promised to abolish tuition fees. You oppose nuclear | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
power, now you are cheerleading the first multi-billion pounds | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
investment in nuclear generation. You are dying out on your enthusiasm | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
on green levies, and now they are up for renegotiation. Why should we | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
trust a word you say? In relation to green levies, as you well know, just | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
under 10% is to do with helping energy and helping people. Unless | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
there is continuing investment in renewables, we will not have the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
British produced energy at cheaper cost to keep those bills down in the | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
future. At cheaper cost? Explain that to me. Off-shore energy is | :04:37. | :04:46. | |
twice the market rate. The costs of renewables will increasingly come | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
down. We have fantastic capacity to produce the energy and deliver lots | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
of jobs in the process. The parts of the energy bill that may be up for | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
renegotiation seems to be the part where we subsidise to help either | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
poor people pay less, or where we do other things. Too insulated the | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
homes? Are you up to putting that to general taxation? Wouldn't that be | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
progressive? I would. It would be progressive. I would like to do for | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
energy bills what the Chancellor has done for road traffic users, | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
drivers, which is too fuelled motor fuel -- to freeze new to fall. That | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
would mean there would be an immediate relief this year, not | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
waiting for the election. So there is a deal to be done there? Yes We | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
understand we have to take the burden off the consumer, and also | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
deal with the energy companies, who look as if they are not paying all | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
the tax they should be, and the regulator, which doesn't regulate | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
quickly enough to deal with the issues coming down the track. We can | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
toughen the regulator, and I hope that the Chancellor, in the Autumn | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
statement, was signalled that energy companies will not be allowed to get | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
away with not paying the taxes they should. And this deal will allow | :06:05. | :06:11. | |
energy prices to come down? Yes How could David Laws, one of your | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
ministers, proudly defend the record of unqualified teachers working in | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
free schools, and then stand side-by-side with Mr Clegg, as he | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
says he is against them? David Laws was not proudly defending the fact | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
that it is unqualified teachers He said that some of the new, | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
unqualified teachers in free schools are doing a superb job. But you want | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
to get rid of them? We want to make sure that everybody coming into a | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
free school ends up being qualified. Ends up? Goes through a process that | :06:46. | :06:52. | |
means they have qualifications. Just as we said very clearly at the last | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
election that the manifesto curriculum in free schools should be | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
the same as other schools. It looks like Mr Clegg is picking a fight | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
just for the sake of it. Mr Clegg was taught by people who didn't have | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
teaching qualifications in one of the greatest schools in the land, if | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
not the world. It didn't seem to do him any harm. What is the problem? | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
If you pay to go to a school, you know what you're getting. But that | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
is what a free school is. No, you don't pay fees. A free school is | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
parents taking the decisions, not you, the politicians. We believe | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
they would expect to guarantee is, firstly that the minimum curriculum | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
taught across the country is taught in the free schools, and secondly, | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
that the teachers there are qualified. Someone who send their | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
kids to private schools took a decision to take -- to send their | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
children there, even if the teachers were unqualified, because they are | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
experts in their field. Someone who send their kids to free schools is | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
because -- is their decision, not yours. Because some of the free | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
schools are new, and have never been there before, parents need a | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
guarantee that there are some basics in place, whatever sort of school. | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
So they need you to hold their hand? It is not about holding hands, it is | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
about having a minimum guarantee. Our party made clear at our | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
conference that this is a priority for us. Nick Clegg reflects the view | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
of the party, and I believe it is an entirely rational thing to do. Nick | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
Clegg complained that the Prime Minister gave him only 30 minutes | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
notice on the Prime Minister Buzz 's U-turn on green levies. That is | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
almost as little time as Nick Clegg gave the Prime Minister on his | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
U-turn on free schools. Aren't you supposed to be partners? Green | :08:56. | :09:03. | |
levies were under discussion in the ministerial group before Wednesday, | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
because we identified this as an issue. We do that in a practical | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
way. Sometimes there is only half an hour's notice. We had even less than | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
half an hour this morning! Simon Hughes, thank you. | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
So the price of energy is the big battle ground in politics at the | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
moment. 72% of people say that high bills will influence the way they | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
vote at the next election. Ed Miliband has promised a price freeze | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
after the next election, but will the coalition turned the tables on | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
Labour, with its proposal to roll back green levies. Caroline Flint | :09:45. | :09:53. | |
joins us from Sheffield. It looks like the coalition will be able to | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
take ?50 of energy bills, by removing green levies. It is quite | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
clear that different parts of the government are running round waking | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
up to the fact that the public feel that this government has not done | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
enough to listen to their concerns. Last week, there was a classic case | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
of the Prime Minister making up policy literally at the dispatch | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
box. Let's see what they say in the autumn statement. The truth is, | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
whatever the debate around green levies, and I have always said we | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
should look at value for money at those green levies. Our argument is | :10:29. | :10:47. | |
about acknowledging there is something wrong with the way the | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
market works, and the way those companies are regulated. Behind our | :10:50. | :10:51. | |
freeze for 20 months is a package of proposals to reform this market I | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
understand that, but you cannot tell as the details about that. I can. | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
You cannot give us the details about reforming the market. We are going | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
to do three things, and I think I said this last time I was on the | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
programme. First, we are going to separate out the generation side | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
from the supply side within the big six. Secondly, we will have a energy | :11:08. | :11:15. | |
pool, or power exchange, where all energy will have to be traded in | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
that pool. Thirdly, we will establish a tougher regulator, | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
because Ofgem is increasingly being seen as not doing the job right I | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
notice that you didn't mention any reform of the current green and | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
social taxes on the energy bill Is it Labour's policy to maintain the | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
existing green levies? In 2011, the government chose to get rid of warm | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
front, which was the publicly funded through tracks a scheme to support | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
new installation. When they got rid of that, it was the first time we | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
had a government since the 70s that didn't have such a policy. What is | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
your policy? We voted against that because we believe it is wrong. We | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
believe that the eco-scheme, a government intervention which is ?47 | :12:06. | :12:15. | |
of the ?112 on our bills each year, is expensive, bureaucratic and isn't | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
going to the fuel poor. I am up for a debate on these issues. I am up | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
for a discussion on what the government should do and what these | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
energy companies should do. We cannot let Cameron all the energy | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
companies off the hook from the way in which they organise their | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
businesses, and expect us to pay ever increasing rises in our bills. | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
There is ?112 of green levies on our bills at the moment. Did you vote | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
against any of them? We didn't, but what I would say ease these were | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
government imposed levies. When they got rid of the government funded | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
programme, Warm Front, they introduced the eco-scheme. The | :12:56. | :13:05. | |
eco-project is one of the ones where the energy companies are saying | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
it's too bureaucratic, and it is proving more expensive than | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
government estimates, apparently doubled the amount the government | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
thought. These things are all worth looking at, but don't go to the | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
heart of the issue. According to official figures, on current plans, | :13:24. | :13:32. | |
which you support, which you voted for, households will be paying 1% | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
more per unit of electricity by 2030. It puts your temporary freeze | :13:38. | :13:48. | |
as just a blip. You support a 4 % rise in our bills. I support making | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
sure we secure for the future access to energy that we can grow here in | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
the UK, whether it is through nuclear, wind or solar, or other | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
technologies yet to be developed. We should protect ourselves against | :14:04. | :14:10. | |
energy costs we cannot control. The truth is, it is every fair for you | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
to put that point across, and I accept that, but we need to hear the | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
other side about the cost for bill payers if we didn't invest in new, | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
indigenous sources of energy supply for the future, which, in the long | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
run, will be cheaper and more secure, and create the jobs we | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
need. I think it is important to have a debate about these issues, | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
but they have to be seen in the right context. If we stay stuck in | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
the past, we will pay more and we will not create jobs. How can you | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
criticise the coalition's plans for a new nuclear station, when jeering | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
13 years of a Labour government you did not invest in a single nuclear | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
plant? You sold off all our nuclear technology to foreign companies | :14:59. | :15:08. | |
Energy provision was put out to private hands and there has been no | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
obstacle in British law against ownership outside the UK. Part of | :15:15. | :15:26. | |
this is looking ahead. Because your previous track record is so bad | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
What we did decide under the previous government, we came to the | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
view, and there were discussions in our party about this, that we did | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
need to support a nuclear future. At the time of that, David Cameron | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
was one of those saying that nuclear power should be a last | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
resort. And as you said, the Liberals did not support it. We | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
stood up for that. We set in train the green light of 10 sites, | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
including Hinkley Point, for nuclear development. I am glad to | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
see that is making progress and we should make more progress over the | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
years ahead. We took a tough decision when other governments had | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
not done. You did not build a new nuclear station. When you get back | :16:15. | :16:23. | |
into power, will you build HS2? That has not had a blank cheque | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
from the Labour Party. I am in favour of good infrastructure. Are | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
you in favour of?, answer the question? I have answered the | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
question. It does not have a blank cheque. If the prices are too high, | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
we will review the decision when we come back to vote on it. We will be | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
looking at it closely. We have to look for value for money and how it | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
benefits the country. Have you stocked up on jumpers this winter? | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
I am perfectly all right with my clothing. What is important, it is | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
ridiculous for the Government to suggest that the answer to the loss | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
of trust in the energy companies is to put on another jumper. | :17:12. | :17:22. | |
The coalition has taken a long time to come up with anything that can | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
trump Ed Miliband's simple freezing energy prices, vote for us. Are | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
they on the brink of doing so? I do not think so. They have had a | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
problem that has dominated the debate, talking about GDP, the | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
figures came out on Friday and said, well, and went back to talking | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
about energy. My problem with what David Cameron proposes is he agrees | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
with the analysis that the Big Six make too many profits. He wants to | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
move the green levies into general taxation, so that he looks like he | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
is protecting the profits of the energy companies. If the coalition | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
can say they will take money off the bills, does that change the | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
game? I do not think the Liberal Democrats are an obstacle to | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
unwinding the green levies. I think Nick Clegg is open to doing a deal, | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
but the real obstacle is the carbon reduction targets that we signed up | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
to during the boom years. They were ambitious I thought at the time | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
From that we have the taxes and clocking up of the supply-side of | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
the economy. Unless he will revise that, and build from first | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
principles a new strategy, he cannot do more than put a dent into | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
green levies. He might say as I have got to ?50 now and if you | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
voters in in an overall majority, I will look up what we have done in | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
the better times and give you more. I am sure he will do that. It might | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
be ?50 of the Bill, but it will be ?50 on your general taxation bill, | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
which would be more progressive They will find it. We will never | :19:10. | :19:17. | |
see it in general taxation. The problem for the Coalition on what | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
Ed Miliband has done is that it is five weeks since he made that | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
speech and it is all we are talking about. David Cameron spent those | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
five weeks trying to work out whether Ed Miliband is a Marxist or | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
whether he is connected to Middle Britain. That is why Ed Miliband | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
set the agenda. The coalition are squabbling among themselves, | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
looking petulant, on energy, and on schools. Nobody is taking notice of | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
the fact the economy is under way, the recovery is under way. Ed | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
Miliband has made the weather on this. | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
It UK has a relaxed attitude about selling off assets based -- to | :20:04. | :20:12. | |
companies based abroad. But this week we have seen the Swiss owner | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
of one of Scotland's largest industrial sites, Grangemouth, come | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
within a whisker of closing part of it down. So should we care whether | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
British assets have foreign owners? Britain might be a nation of | :20:22. | :20:23. | |
homeowners, but we appear to have lost our taste for owning some of | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
our biggest businesses. These are among the crown jewels sold off in | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
the past three decades to companies based abroad. Roughly half of | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
Britain's essential services have overseas owners. The airport owner, | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
British Airports Authority, is owned by a Spanish company. | :20:42. | :20:43. | |
Britain's largest water company Thames, is owned by a consortium | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
led by an Australian bank. Four out of six of Britain's biggest energy | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
companies are owned by overseas giants, and one of these, EDF | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
Energy, which is owned by the French state, is building Britain's | :20:54. | :20:55. | |
first nuclear power plant in a generation, backed by Chinese | :20:56. | :21:03. | |
investors. It's a similar story for train operator Arriva, bought by a | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
company owned by the German state. So part of the railways privatised | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
by the British government was effectively re-nationalised by the | :21:12. | :21:19. | |
German government. But does it matter who owns these companies as | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
long as the lights stay on, the trains run on time, and we can | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
still eat Cadbury's Dairy Milk? We are joined by the general | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
secretary of the RMT, Bob Crow, and by venture capitalist Julie Meyer. | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
They go head to head. Have we seen the consequences of | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
relying for essential services to be foreign-owned? Four of the Big | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
Six energy companies, Grangemouth, owned by a tax exile in Switzerland. | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
It is not good. I do not think there is a cause and effect | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
relationship between foreign ownership and consumer prices. That | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
is not the right comparison. We need to be concerned about | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
businesses represented the future, businesses we are good at | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
innovating for example in financial services and the UK has a history | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
of building businesses, such as Monotypes. If we were not creating | :22:24. | :22:34. | |
businesses here -- Monotise. Like so many businesses creating | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
products and services and creating the shareholders. Should we allow | :22:41. | :22:48. | |
hour essential services to be in foreign ownership? It was | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
demonstrated this week at Grangemouth. If you do not own the | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
industry, you do not own it. The MPs of this country and the | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
politicians in Scotland have no say, they were consultants. | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
Multinationals decide whether to shut a company down. If that had | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
been Unite union, they are the ones who saved the jobs. They | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
capitulated. They will come back, like they have for the past 150 | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
years, and capture again what they lost. If it had closed, they would | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
have lost their jobs for ever. If the union had called the members up | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
without a ballot for strike action, there would have been uproar. This | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
person in Switzerland can decide to shut the entire industry down. The | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
coalition, the Labour Party, as well, when Labour was in government, | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
they played a role of allowing industries to go abroad, and it | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
should be returned to public ownership. Nestor. It has | :23:54. | :24:05. | |
demonstrated that the Net comes from new businesses. We must not | :24:06. | :24:14. | |
be... When Daly motion was stopped by the French government to be sold, | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
it was an arrow to the heart of French entrepreneurs. We must not | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
create that culture in the UK. Every train running in France is | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
built in France. 90% of the trains running in Germany are built in | :24:30. | :24:37. | |
Germany. In Japan, it has to be built in that country, and now an | :24:38. | :24:44. | |
energy company in France is reducing its nuclear capability in | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
its own country and wants to make profits out of the British industry | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
to put back into it state industry. That happened with the railway | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
industry. They want to make money at the expense of their own state | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
companies. We sold off energy production. How did we end up in a | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
position where our nuclear capacity will be built by a company owned by | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
a socialist date, France, and funded by a communist one, China, | :25:17. | :25:24. | |
for vital infrastructure? I am not suggesting that is in the national | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
interest. I am saying we can pick any one example and say it is a | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
shame. The simple matter of the fact is the owners are having to | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
make decisions. Not just Grangemouth, businesses are making | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
decisions about what is the common good. Not just in the shareholders' | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
interest. For employees, customers. What is in the common good when | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
prices go up by 10% and the reason is that 20 years ago they shut | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
every coal pit down in this country, the Germans kept theirs open and | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
subsidised it and now we have the Germans doing away with nuclear | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
power and they have coal. Under the Labour government, in 2008, the | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
climate change Act was passed. Well before that, and you know yourself, | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
they shut down the coal mines to smash the National Union of | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
Mineworkers because they dared to stand up for people in their | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
community. Even if we wanted to reopen the coalmines, it would be | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
pointless. Under the 2008 Act, we are not meant to burn more coal | :26:34. | :26:40. | |
The can, as if you spent some of the profits, you could have carbon | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
catch up. That does not exist on a massive scale. You are arguing the | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
case, Julie Meyer, for entrepreneurs to come to this | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
country. Even Bob Crow is not against that. We are trying to | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
argue, should essential services be in foreign hands? Not those in | :27:03. | :27:10. | |
Silicon round about doing start ups. I am trying to draw a broader | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
principle than just energy. Something like broadband services, | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
also important to the functioning of the economy. I believe in the | :27:21. | :27:27. | |
UK's ability to innovate. When we have businesses that play off | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
broadband companies to get the best prices for consumers. These new | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
businesses and business models are the best way. Not to control, but | :27:37. | :27:44. | |
to influence. It will be a disaster. Prices will go up and up as a | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
result. Nissan in Sunderland, a Japanese factory, some of the best | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
cars and productivity. You want that to be nationalised and bring | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
it down to the standard of British Leyland? It is not bring it down to | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
the standard. The car manufacturing base in this country has been | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
wrecked. We make more cars now for 20 years -- than in 20 years. | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
Ford's Dagenham produced some of the best cars in the world. Did you | :28:14. | :28:21. | |
buy one? I cannot drive. They moved their plants to other countries | :28:22. | :28:28. | |
where it was cheaper labour. Would you nationalise Nissan? There | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
should be one car industry that produces cars for people. This week | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
the EU summit was about Angela Merkel's mobile phone being tapped, | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
they call it a handy. We sent Adam to Brussels and told him to ignore | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
the business about phone-tapping and investigate the Prime | :28:51. | :28:52. | |
Minister's policy on Europe instead. I have come to my first EU summit to | :28:53. | :29:08. | |
see how David Cameron is getting on with his strategy to claim power was | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
back from Brussels. Got any powers back yet? Yes! Which ones? Sadly, | :29:13. | :29:22. | |
his fellow leaders were not as forthcoming. Chancellor, are you | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
going to give any powers back to Britain? Has David Cameron asked you | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
for any powers back? The president of the commission just laughed, and | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
listen to the Lithuanian President. How is David Cameron's renegotiation | :29:40. | :29:50. | |
strategy going? What's that? He wants powers back for Britain. No | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
one knows what powers David Cameron actually wants. Even our usual | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
allies, like Sweden, are bit baffled. We actually don't know yet | :30:01. | :30:07. | |
what is going through the UK membership. We will await the | :30:08. | :30:15. | |
finalisation of that first. You should ask him, and then tell us! | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
Here is someone who must know, the Dutch Prime Minister, he is doing | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
what we are doing, carrying out a review of the EU powers, known as | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
competencies in the jargon, before negotiating to get some back. Have | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
you had any negotiations with David Cameron over what powers you can | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
bring back from Brussels? That is not on the agenda of this summit. | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
Have you talked to him about it This is not on the schedule for this | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
summit. David Cameron's advises tummy it is | :30:51. | :31:00. | |
because he is playing the long game. -- David Cameron's advisers tell me. | :31:01. | :31:08. | |
At this summit, there was a task force discussing how to cut EU red | :31:09. | :31:15. | |
tape. Just how long this game is was explained to me outside the summit, | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
by the leader of the Conservatives in the European Parliament. I think | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
the behind-the-scenes negotiations will start happening when the new | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
commissioner is appointed later next year. I think the detailed | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
negotiations will start to happen bubbly after the UK general | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
election. That is when we will start getting all of the detail of the | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
horse trading, and real, Lake night negotiations. Angela Merkel seems | :31:44. | :31:51. | |
keen to rewrite the EU's main treaties to deal with changes in the | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
Eurozone, and that is the mechanism David Cameron would use to | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
renegotiate our membership. Everyone here says his relationship with the | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
German Chancellor is strong. So after days in this building, here is | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
how it looks. David Cameron has a mountain to climb. It is climbable, | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
but he isn't even in the foothills yet. Has he even started packing his | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
bags for the trip? Joining us now, a man who knows a | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
thing or two about the difficulties Prime Minister 's face in Europe. | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
Former Deputy Prime Minister, Michael Heseltine. We are nine | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
months from David Cameron's defining speech on EU renegotiation. Can you | :32:34. | :32:41. | |
think of one area of progress? I don't know. And you don't know. And | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
that's a good thing. Why is it a good thing? Because the real | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
progress goes on behind closed doors. And only the most naive, | :32:54. | :33:04. | |
because the real progress goes on behind closed doors. Because, in | :33:05. | :33:12. | |
this weary world, you and I, Andrew, know full well that the moment you | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
say, I making progress, people say, where? And the machine goes to work | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
to show that the progress isn't enough. So you are much better off | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
making progress as best you can in the privacy of private diplomacy. It | :33:29. | :33:38. | |
is a long journey ahead. In this long journey, do you have a clear | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
sense of the destination? Do you have a clear sense of what powers Mr | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
Cameron wants to negotiate? I have a clear sense of the destination, | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
which is a victory for the campaign that he will win to stay inside the | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
European community. That is the agenda, and I have total support for | :33:59. | :34:07. | |
that. I understand that, but if he is incapable of getting any tangible | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
sign of renegotiation, if he is able only to do what Wilson did in 1975, | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
which was to get a couple of token changes to our membership status, he | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
goes into that referendum without much to argue for. He has everything | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
to argue for. He's got Britain's vital role as a major contributor to | :34:30. | :34:37. | |
the community. He's got Britain's self interest as a major | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
beneficiary, and Britain's vital role in the City of London. He's got | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
everything to argue for. He could argue for that now. He could have a | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
referendum now. He doesn't want one now. I haven't any doubt that he | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
will come back with something to talk about. But it may be slightly | :35:03. | :35:12. | |
different to what his critics, the UK isolationist party people, want. | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
He may, for example, have found that allies within the community want | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
change as well, and he may secure changes in the way the community | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
works, which would be a significant argument within the referendum | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
campaign. Let me give you an example. I think it is a scandal | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
that the European Commission don't secure the auditing of some of the | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
accounts. Perhaps that could be on the agenda. He might find a lot of | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
contributing countries, like Germany, like Colin and, would be | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
very keen. -- like Holland. David vetoed the increase in the European | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
budgets the other day, and he had a lot of allies. So working within | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
Europe on the things that people paying the European bills want is | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
fertile ground. Is John Major right to call for a windfall tax on the | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
energy companies? John is a very cautious fellow. He doesn't say | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
things without thinking them out. So I was surprised that he went for a | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
windfall tax. First of all, it is retrospective, and secondly, it is | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
difficult to predict what the consequences will be. I am, myself, | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
more interested in the other part of his speech, which was talking about | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
the need for the Conservative Party to seek a wider horizon, to | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
recognise what is happening to the Conservative Party in the way in | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
which its membership is shrinking into a southeastern enclave. Are you | :36:56. | :37:05. | |
in favour of a windfall tax? I am not in favour of increasing any | :37:06. | :37:16. | |
taxes. Do you share Iain Duncan Smith's point of view on welfare | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
reform? I think Iain Duncan Smith is right. It is extremely difficult to | :37:23. | :37:32. | |
do, but he is right to try. I think public opinion is behind him, but it | :37:33. | :37:40. | |
isn't easy, because on the fringe of these issues there are genuine hard | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
luck stories, and they are the ones that become the focus of attention | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
the moment you introduce change. It requires a lot of political skill to | :37:51. | :37:57. | |
negotiate your way through that. But isn't Iain Duncan Smith right to | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
invoke the beverage principle, that you should be expected to make a | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
contribution for the welfare you depend on? Yes, he is. I will let | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
you get your Sunday lunch. Thanks for joining us. | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will be looking | :38:17. | :38:26. | |
Welcome to Sunday Politics South. My name's Peter Henley. On today's | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
show: How would you like one of these at the end of your street? | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
If you didn't fancy it, is there anything you could do about it? Just | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
how much power do local people and local councils have? | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
More on that shortly. First let me introduce the two politicians who'll | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
be with me for the next 20 minutes. Jo Lovelock is the Labour leader of | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
Reading Borough Council and Steve Brine is the Conservative MP for | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
Winchester. They have one thing in common ` they each have their own TV | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
channel. Here's a little bit of both of them. First, SteveBrineTV, then | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
Reading Council's round up of local news. I am here as a member but also | :39:04. | :39:15. | |
as an MP. I'm giving the keynote speech tonight. Let's get inside. | :39:16. | :39:24. | |
There were special events at the Civic Centre and the Phoenix day | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
centre. The events showcase the contribution older people have made | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
and continue to make to Reading's communities. They are good! In this | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
errant tonic age, you reach more people with that than with a | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
newsletter? `` LX Ronnie. Absolutely. You have been doing it | :39:47. | :39:56. | |
since you started. People think I have got a TV crew. Far from it. | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
Often it is made on the iPhone, edited in a well`known product for | :40:03. | :40:09. | |
free and it is meant to look rough, to be YouTube style clips. York one | :40:10. | :40:18. | |
is not so rough. `` yours is not so rough. We have an in`house guy who | :40:19. | :40:27. | |
is good at putting this together. It is quite cheap. We think that longer | :40:28. | :40:36. | |
term there will be more of it. I have an apt as well. The can watch | :40:37. | :40:46. | |
it through the up. People want to watch content, not read it. They | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
want to interact, not just have it fed to them. All addicts has to | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
adapt to that. You spoke in the BBC future debate. You were standing up | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
for local radio. It is going local in some ways. A couple of years ago, | :41:03. | :41:10. | |
there was a possibility of changes and cutbacks to local radio. MPs | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
have never seen a response like it. That was listeners. When there is a | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
crisis in the community, where there's your instinct take you? BBC | :41:22. | :41:30. | |
local radio. And everybody in Reading cares what happens in | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
Reading. If it is about the planning application and the bottom of your | :41:36. | :41:46. | |
road, you will get interested. Half of all car parking in the UK is | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
run by local authorities, and it's a nice little earner ` ?601 million | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
last year from parking charges and fines for outstaying your welcome. | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
This week the Transport Select Committee took a robust approach to | :41:57. | :41:58. | |
the revenues generated. Parking is essential but many people | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
believe they are being used as a cash cow. There must be more | :42:02. | :42:09. | |
transparency. Local authorities should publish what charges they are | :42:10. | :42:11. | |
raising and how they are playing them. | :42:12. | :42:20. | |
By law, councils can't use the profits from parking on | :42:21. | :42:22. | |
non`transport`related spending. But that still means that money they | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
would have spent on transport programmes can be used elsewhere. | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
The RAC Foundation produced a report in the summer showing that councils | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
have a net surplus of nearly half a billion from parking and fines. Jo | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
Abbott is from the RAC and joins us now from our Westminster studio. | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
More transparency about what is being raised and how the charges are | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
being applied. Do you think transparency is the answer? | :42:47. | :42:54. | |
Absolutely. What Jo said underpins where we should be going in | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
explaining to local residents how money is being spent. She said the | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
income now had gone in excess of ?601 million. In fact, the figure is | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
predicted to be even higher next year. Can you imagine any public | :43:12. | :43:19. | |
business where shareholders put money in, see profits raised, but | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
didn't see any paperwork at all to underpin the transactions? Annual | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
parking reports would be a good way forward to eliminate what is going | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
on in the parking account business. Do you think the councils are | :43:37. | :43:38. | |
anti`car in the way they are operating? Perhaps. One of the | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
things we have to perhaps think about is the number of miles that | :43:46. | :43:53. | |
all of us use in cars. We cover most of our transport needs in the car. | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
Over 90% of the travel we do is on the roads. Only 9% is on rail. | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
Outside the big cities, there isn't a great coverage by bus, even. In a | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
big conurbation, maybe you have a good service but in a rural | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
community, you don't have that. You will depend on the car. Every time | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
you take a car out, it needs to be parked. In our area, we have got | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
some wonderful historic town centres. Winchester is one, | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
obviously. Oxford did another. Both of those towns are distinct because | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
they have excellent facilities. `` distinguished. That is this is a | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
more way of accommodating people who want to visit those cities. `` | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
sensible way. We know that some people are anti`car, but as the car | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
gets arena, they may change their minds. Yes, good park and ride | :44:52. | :45:02. | |
schemes. Have we got to move away, Jo, from trying to get people out of | :45:03. | :45:10. | |
their cars? It is about using the right way to get somewhere for a | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
purpose. If you are going into a crowded town centre which has got | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
the historic patterns, such as even in Reading, there is simply not | :45:20. | :45:27. | |
enough street space to allow every car. So it is not so much about | :45:28. | :45:36. | |
climate change? It is both. It is recognising that at the moment, cars | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
contribute to pollution. Hopefully, in the future, we will get more | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
environmentally friendly cars. It is about managing it for everybody. In | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
particular, if you get a lot of people living near the town centre, | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
we owe it to them to ensure they can park near their homes. We have | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
residents' parking schemes, so that people, if they park in that place, | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
they get fined. It is managing it as well as we can. Do you think some | :46:09. | :46:18. | |
councils are using this situation? Possibly. It is different in | :46:19. | :46:21. | |
Winchester. I represent an urban centre. What Winchester has is a | :46:22. | :46:32. | |
triple ring. On the outer ring, there is cheaper parking, longer | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
term, park and ride parking. Closer, they have more expensive, a | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
bit less length. In the centre, short`term parking that costs more. | :46:43. | :46:50. | |
That works for us. It is currently consulted on with local businesses. | :46:51. | :46:58. | |
The council has taken on free Sunday parking. It has been popular. If you | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
want to pop in, that is popular with businesses. It is about getting | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
balance. You want good, clean air quality in a historic place like | :47:11. | :47:18. | |
Winchester but you want growth. Are things moving in the right | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
direction, Jo? In places like Winchester, where they are forward | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
thinking, things are moving forward. Not every town is like Winchester. | :47:31. | :47:37. | |
The other areas have to rebuild trust with the local residents to | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
ensure that they're not just being used as another form of income or an | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
unfair income for the local councils. All of which, we know, are | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
short of money. It is important that we see the car as a support for the | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
economy, particularly at the moment. We do a lot of passenger miles. The | :48:01. | :48:13. | |
majority are to support businesses. Localism is supposed to be the new | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
buzzword in planning, the idea being that local communities know best | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
what's suitable for their area rather than the minister up in | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
London. But what if a development isn't wanted by the community or the | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
local council? Does that mean it's a dead duck? As our Hampshire | :48:27. | :48:29. | |
political reporter Paul Greer reports, that ain't necessarily so. | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
Ever since this land was reclaimed from the sea, it has been the | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
gateway to Southampton. It is storage for cars, scrap metal and | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
even mountains of salt. All of this only yards from residential homes. | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
Locals have got used to living close to industry. They have recently lost | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
a fight to prevent a sulphur plant being built nearby. Now I proposal | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
for a week biomass power station has angered residents. They say enough | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
is enough. The let's be honest, there is a bit of a Conservative in | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
us all. Who would want a power station plant from close to where we | :49:12. | :49:19. | |
live. Just an artist's impression of what this plant might look like. | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
Nobody is denying it will be big... Really big. Take Southampton's | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
clocktower. That is about half the height of the proposed biomass | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
plant. It will change the city's skyline. It is already changing the | :49:34. | :49:41. | |
politics. There is something you don't see often in Southampton. | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
Four`year is, Labour and Conservatives have been feuding | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
over, though, everything. As you'll granny would say, they have been `` | :49:51. | :49:58. | |
as your granny would say, they have been arguing over anything. Some | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
issues have to serve the wider interests of the country. A decision | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
of this major shouldn't sit with a minister in Whitehall. This doesn't | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
serve anyone's interests. It is too close to people's homes. No one | :50:17. | :50:25. | |
wants it. It is a frustration shared by those who live close to the | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
proposed power station. They know when the time comes that their fate | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
will be decided by national, not local, politicians. We can't make | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
them listen. They don't go away, we don't go away, we get ready for the | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
fight. It will be decided nationally, so we have got to make | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
sure our voices are heard. The local message is we don't want it. We have | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
got to make sure it is reflected nationally. What can we say? In the | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
end, it is down to the government. What can we do? We have been to | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
meetings. We have been to this and that over the years. I don't know | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
what we can do. You feel powerless? Yeah, very much so. It is | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
frightening. The irony is, if the proposed power station was small and | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
had less impact on residents, the final decision would rest with | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
councillors. Because it is so big, ministers in London will decide what | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
is best for the country and not just those who have to live near and with | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
any new power station. Steve, it is frightening for people | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
at the sharp end if they filmed nowhere to go. I understand. We have | :51:42. | :51:50. | |
had experience in Winchester of the `` decisions being taken over our | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
head, and we said no, no, no. In the end, it went to the Inspectorate. | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
Deep pockets won the day and it was granted over our heads. I have been | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
on record as saying localism is not true local isn't. It should be. I | :52:07. | :52:13. | |
argue strongly that we should have abolished the planning Inspectorate. | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
You cannot have localism that is referred somewhere else. That didn't | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
localism. That defeats people's belief in their ability to shape | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
their communities. On the issue, I have got a big wind farm proposed in | :52:29. | :52:38. | |
my constituency. Ultimately, I don't think it is for me, Peter, to say | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
they can or can't have that. If the company comes along and makes a good | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
deal with those residents and it stacks of them locally, should be | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
able to accept it. Jo, you were nodding. Yet some things have to go | :52:55. | :53:01. | |
through the national government. If you have got everybody locally | :53:02. | :53:04. | |
making some very good arguments about white something shouldn't be | :53:05. | :53:11. | |
on a particular site, and clearly it looks as though it is close to some | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
dense residential area, there must be somewhere else that something | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
like this can be built that wasn't quite so in everybody's faces. So | :53:22. | :53:29. | |
politicians have to try harder. But MPs, their link, I expect they will | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
be hearing from those residents. Should the government be worrying | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
about your wallet or your wellbeing? Is improving the economy more | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
important than improving people's happiness? We had the regional | :53:41. | :53:43. | |
breakdown of the latest happiness index this week. People all over the | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
country were asked to rate on a scale of zero to ten how happy they | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
were feeling. The national average was a score of 7.28. But locally we | :53:54. | :53:56. | |
went from a happier`than`average Hart in Hampshire with a score of | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
8.04 to a not`so`optimistic Oxford on Saamah Abdallah works at the | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
Wellbeing Centre of the New Economics Foundation and joins us | :54:04. | :54:05. | |
from London. GDP has doubled since the 1970s and | :54:06. | :54:15. | |
satisfaction has hardly trained `` changed. When measuring the right | :54:16. | :54:22. | |
thing? We need to know what the economy is doing, to know how we are | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
faring in terms of production. That is important. But it is only part of | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
what is important to people's lives. We know there are other | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
things, health, social relationships, time, the cities they | :54:38. | :54:46. | |
live in. There is a risk when we focus on GP that we figured other | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
things. Measuring well`being, we know we are capturing a comic | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
impacts. People who have low incomes will have low well`being. Well | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
capturing the hard things that we know are important. But we also | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
capturing other things like social relationships and environmental | :55:07. | :55:08. | |
conditions, which also affect well`being. We started doing this a | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
while ago. Have we seen any signs of things improving as the economy has | :55:15. | :55:21. | |
changed? For the UK, we have only got two years of data. It is still | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
early to start making comparisons are talking about changes over time. | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
Well`being is something that takes time to develop and takes time to be | :55:29. | :55:36. | |
understandable. And for politicians, would you think they should do in | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
response? Where can they legislate to improve happiness? The starting | :55:43. | :55:46. | |
point at the moment is to start looking at what is important to | :55:47. | :55:49. | |
well`being at the moment. You can do analyses and work`out which people | :55:50. | :55:56. | |
have high and low well`being. We can look and see which people have | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
suffering in particular. Which groups. We saw last year that when | :56:00. | :56:06. | |
you analyse the data across the UK, and you control for things like | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
income, you still found that ethnic minorities had lower well`being. Why | :56:11. | :56:19. | |
are people from ethnic minorities with lower well`being? Is it | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
cultural or something else in society? Let's ask our politicians | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
about that. The average score for the South is 7.35. Reading is | :56:30. | :56:36. | |
slightly above. Winchester is quite a lot above, 7.73. Is it | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
demographics as well, Jo? Some of this is, I would suggest, not rocket | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
science. With poor health, low income and insecurity where you | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
live, you are going to be less happy than somebody who has got security, | :56:53. | :56:59. | |
wealth and all the rest. Is it just about relative wealth? But it is | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
about what people do with this information. Government policy will | :57:04. | :57:12. | |
need to change for those who are suffering. Maybe they worry about | :57:13. | :57:21. | |
how much tax they are paying. Maybe, but it is more worrying if you can't | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
pay your electricity bill at the end of the week. Even in affluent | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
Reading, people are choosing between eating and heating. The increase in | :57:30. | :57:41. | |
foodbanks in the 21st`century, even with a recession, we shouldn't have | :57:42. | :57:49. | |
people making those choices. And we should be looking at which part of | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
the population is getting happier. The strongest quarter of it, growth | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
may make people happier. It will make George Osborne happier. If I | :58:00. | :58:10. | |
asked a dry cleaner, saying the government was measuring happiness, | :58:11. | :58:12. | |
I would love to report what he said, but I think you would cut me off. I | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
think I know what people think of this. I know where the Prime | :58:17. | :58:23. | |
Minister is coming on this. This is part of his agenda. We all know | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
this. My parents used to say, money doesn't make you happy. If I had a | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
choice between health and money, I would choose health. But a bit of | :58:32. | :58:39. | |
money helps some people? It impacts on your health as well. If you can't | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
heat to a home, it is going to affect your health. You can't | :58:44. | :58:53. | |
separate these things out. Now our regular round up of the | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
political week in the South in 60 Seconds. | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
Volunteers will no longer deliver meals on wheels in Sussex. The RDS | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
have contracted out the service to a large catering company and offered | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
help is other duties. Prior to transfer 200 jobs from the Royal | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
Surrey Hospital to the private sector have caused a storm. `` | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
plans. The hospital say the money they will save all in and take on | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
new nurses and open a new unit. Parents in Dorset are struggling to | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
find day nurseries for 250 children after the county council decided to | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
close centres in Blandford and Shaftesbury. It is unusual for | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
councillors directly to operate nurseries for children. A year after | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
the company that built born with's surf reef went bust. Contractors are | :59:42. | :59:48. | |
still trying to trace the owner to recover ?250 `` ?250,000 | :59:49. | :59:53. | |
compensation. And new European rules could help people with food | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
allergies. Restaurant is now have to display a range of potentially | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
dangerous ingredients on their menus. | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
Lots in the public sector being moved to the private sector. Does | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
that worry you, Jo? Yes. Some things are better delivered by the private | :00:14. | :00:20. | |
sector. When we have taken things into the private sector, sometimes | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
we have to bring them back. We should leave no stone unturned. The | :00:25. | :00:30. | |
austerity we have had to push through from Whitehall, the deficit | :00:31. | :00:37. | |
is coming down, but it creates tough decisions for government and local | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
government. They have to decide how the commission services, where they | :00:41. | :00:49. | |
get the best bang for their buck. It is horses for courses. There is | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
evidence that a lot of things are delivered more efficiently when you | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
don't have complicated contracts in the way. Other things, you do need | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
to find and elsewhere. Thank you for joining us. I will push people | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
towards your TV channels! That's the Sunday Politics in the | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
South. Thanks to my guests, Jo Lovelock and Steve Brine. Remember, | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
you can keep up to date with Southern politics by reading my | :01:17. | :01:17. | |
blog. There's free school area for into that | :01:18. | :01:31. | |
Is Labour about to drop its support category. Thank you. | :01:32. | :01:32. | |
Is Labour about to drop its support for High Speed 2, a rail line the | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
party approved while in government? for High Speed 2, a rail line the | :01:37. | :01:47. | |
these green shoots? These are all questions for The Week Ahead. | :01:48. | :02:00. | |
So, HS2. Miss Flint wouldn't answer the question. She's in northern MP | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
too. Ed Balls is comparing it to the Millennium Dome. | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
too. Ed Balls is comparing it to the minute's silence for HS2? It will | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
not be quite as crude as that. They will not stand up and say, we | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
not be quite as crude as that. They senior Labour person said to me it | :02:20. | :02:19. | |
would be a bit senior Labour person said to me it | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
that Gordon Brown and Ed Balls set for the euro back in 97. They will | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
be chucking lots of questions into the air, and the questions will | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
create doubt, and will create the grounds for Labour to say, at some | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
point, we think there is a much much better way of spending the money. It | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
isn't ?42 billion, because that includes a contingency. Let's see | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
what Peter Mandelson had to say about HS2. He was in the government | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
when Labour supported it. Frankly, there was too much of the argument | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
that if everyone else has got a high-speed train, we should have won | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
too. Regardless of need, regardless of cost, and regardless of | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
alternatives. As a party, to be frank, we didn't feel like being | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
trumped by the zeal of the then opposition's support for the | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
high-speed train. We wanted, if anything, to upstage them. So they | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
didn't really need it, and we're only talking about ?50 billion. Why | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
would you take a decision involving ?50 billion in a serious way? For | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
David Cameron, if it becomes clear Labour is against it, he cannot | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
proceed. He indicated last week that he wouldn't proceed if the certainty | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
wasn't there. For Labour, HS2 is really a debate about the deficit by | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
proxy. They think that if you don't go ahead with HS2, that releases | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
tens of billions of pounds to spend on other things, such as public | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
services, without going into boring. I don't think that works because | :04:07. | :04:28. | |
there was a difference between cancelling something that already | :04:29. | :04:30. | |
exists to pay for something else, and cancelling something that does | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
not yet exist and will be paid for over decades to pay for something | :04:34. | :04:35. | |
here and now. Can Labour do this? I know that the line will be, we are | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
not going to build this railway because we are going to build | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
200,000 houses a year. Can they do this without political cost? I think | :04:42. | :04:43. | |
there will be political costs, but they will play this card of we have | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
changed our mind. I think Cameron's line has been very clever, saying we | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
cannot do it without labour. You can put it in two ways. Sorry, we cannot | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
go ahead with it, but Labour has ruined your chance of prosperity, or | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
they can tie themselves to it, and then Labour cannot attack it on | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
great grounds when costs do spire. You can write Labour's script right | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
now. They can say, if we were in charge, the financial management | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
would be much better. This raises some really important questions for | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
the government. They have utterly failed to make the case for HS2 | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
There is a real case to make. Between London and Birmingham it is | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
about capacity not speed. North of Birmingham, it is about | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
connectivity. It is a simple case to make, but it is only in the last | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
month that they have been making that case. It shows really terrible | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
complacency in the coalition that they haven't done that. We'll HS2 | :05:51. | :05:58. | |
happen or not? I think it will. For the reasons that Nick outlined, | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
there is not of a constituency for it amongst Northern areas. -- there | :06:02. | :06:11. | |
is enough of a constituency for it. There is private investment as well. | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
It isn't like Heathrow. I say no, because I think Labour will drop | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
their support for it. Caroline Flint said she was in favour of the | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
concept of trains generally, but will it go further than that? It is | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
difficult to see how it will go ahead if Labour will not support it | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
after setting five tests that it clearly will not meet. Some will | :06:39. | :06:46. | |
breathe a sigh of relief. Some will say, even in the 20th century, we | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
cannot build a proper rail network. The economy was another big story of | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
the week. We had those GDP figures. There is a video the Tories are | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
releasing. The world premiere is going to be here. Where's the red | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
carpet? It gives an indication of how the Tories will hand Mr Miliband | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
and labour in the run-up to the election. Let's have a look at it. | :07:11. | :07:44. | |
These graphics are even worse than the ones we use on our show! How on | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
earth would you expect that to go viral? It did have a strange feel | :07:50. | :07:59. | |
about it. It doesn't understand the Internet at all. Who is going to | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
read those little screens between it? Put a dog in it! However, | :08:04. | :08:15. | |
putting that aside, I have no idea that that is going to go viral. The | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
Tories are now operating - and I say Tories rather than the coalition - | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
on the assumption that the economy is improving and will continue to | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
improve, and that that will become more obvious as 2014 goes on. We | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
just saw their how they will fight the campaign. Yes, and at the | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
crucial moment, you will reach the point where wages. To rise at a | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
faster pace than inflation, and then people will start to, in the words | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
of Harold Macmillan, feel that they have never had it so good. That is | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
the key moment. If the economy is growing, there is a rule of thumb | :08:58. | :09:05. | |
that the government should get a benefit. But it doesn't always work | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
like that. The fundamental point here is that Ed Miliband has had a | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
great month. He has totally set the agenda. He has set the agenda with | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
something - freezing energy prices - that may not work. That video shows | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
that the Conservatives want to get the debate back to the | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
fundamentals. That this is a party that told us for three years that | :09:26. | :09:33. | |
this coalition was telling us to -- was taking us to hell on a handcart. | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
That doesn't seem to have happened. The energy price was a very clever | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
thing, at the party conference season, which now seems years ago. | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
They saw that the recovery was going to happen, so they changed the | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
debate to living standards. Some economists are now privately | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
expecting growth to be 3% next year, which was inconceivable for five | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
months ago. If growth is 3% next year, living standards will start to | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
rise again. Where does Labour go then? I would go further, and say | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
that even though Ed Miliband has made a small political victory on | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
living standards, it hasn't registered in the polls. Those polls | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
have been contracted since April -- have been contracting since April. | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
That macro economic story matters more than the issue of living | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
standards. The interesting thing about the recovery is it confounds | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
everybody. No one was predicting, not the Treasury, not the media not | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
the IMF, not the academics, and the only people I can think of... I fit | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
-- I thought they knew everything! The only people I know who did are | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
one adviser who is very close to George Osborne, and the clever hedge | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
fund is who were buying British equities back in January. Because | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
the Treasury's record is so appalling, no one believe them, but | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
they were saying around February, March this year, that by the end of | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
the summer, the recovery would be gathering momentum. For once, they | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
turned out to be right! They said that the economy would be going gang | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
bust is! Where did the new Tory voters come from? I agree, if the | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
economic recovery continues, the coalition will be stronger. But | :11:35. | :11:43. | |
where will they get new voters from? For people who sign up to help to | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
buy, they will be locked into nice mortgages at a low interest rate, | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
and just as you go into a general election, if you are getting 3% | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
growth and unemployment is down the Bank of England will have to review | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
their interest rates. People who are getting nice interest rates now may | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
find that it is not like that in a few months time. The point John | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
Major was making implicitly was that Mrs Thatcher could speak to people | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
on low incomes. John Major could not speak to them -- John Major could | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
speak to them. But this coalition cannot speak to them. This idea | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
about the reshuffle was that David Cameron wanted more Northern voices, | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
more women, to make it look like it was not a party of seven men. When | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
David Cameron became leader, John Major said, I do not speak very | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
often, but when I do, I will help you, because I think you are good | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
thing and I do not want to be like Margaret Thatcher. But that speech | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
was clearly a lament for the party he believed that David Cameron was | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
going to lead and create, but that isn't happening. And energy prices | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
continue into this coming week. We have the companies going before a | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
select committee. My information is they are sending along the secondary | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
division, not the boss. How can they get along -- get away with that I | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
got the letter through from British Gas this week explaining why my | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
bills are going up, and at no point since this became a story have any | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
of the big companies handled it well. I will have to leave it there. | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
Make sure you pay your bill! That's it for today. The Daily Politics is | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
back on BBC Two tomorrow. I will be back here on BBC One next Sunday. | :13:38. | :13:44. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics. | :13:45. | :13:51. |