Browse content similar to 08/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. First, some Sunday | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
morning cheer, if you are an MP, that is. You are set to get an 11% | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
pay rise. The Chancellor has gone from zero to hero for some, who | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
credit him for turning the economy around. We will be taking a fine | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
tooth comb to his Autumn Statement. Should this man get a pay rise? | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
Complete denial about the central facts... And 11% pay rise for Ed | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
Balls? He was certainly working hard to be heard last Thursday. We will | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
be reviewing his performance. What about this man? We will be joined by | :01:17. | :01:24. | |
In the South, water everywhere but in Berks, | :01:25. | :01:32. | |
had on the capital, its politics and those who met him. | :01:33. | :01:43. | |
With me, three scruffy eternal students. They would celebrate if | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
they achieved a C+. But they are all we could afford and there will be no | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
pay rise for them. They will be glued to an electronic device | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
throughout the programme and if we are lucky they might stop there | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
internet shopping and tweet something intelligent. But don't | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
hold your breath. Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Last | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
week, storms were battering Britain, the East Coast was hit by the worst | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
tidal surge in more than a century, thousands of people had to be | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
evacuated and Nelson Mandela died. The downed the news agenda was the | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
small matter of George Osborne's Autumn Statement. His giveaways, his | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
takeaways and his first opportunity to announce some economic cheer | :02:29. | :02:37. | |
It might be winter outside, but in the studios it is awesome. Autumn | :02:38. | :02:48. | |
Statement time. -- autumn. This is a moment of TV history. Normally when | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
the Chancellor delivers these statements, he has to say the | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
economy is actually a lot worse than everyone predicted. This time, he | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
can stand up and say the economy is better than everybody predicted A | :03:01. | :03:01. | |
better than everybody predicted. A lot better. | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
Britain is currently growing faster than any other major advanced | :03:07. | :03:15. | |
economy. Faster than France, which is contracting, faster than Germany, | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
faster even than America. At this Autumn Statement last year, there | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
were repeated predictions that borrowing would go up. Instead, | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
borrowing is down, and down significantly more than forecast. | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
But George Osborne said the good numbers still mean more tough | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
decisions. We will not give up in giving in our country's debts. We | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
will not spend the money from lower borrowing. We will not squander the | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
harder and games of the British people. -- hard earned gains. In | :03:46. | :03:54. | |
other news, further cuts to government departments. The state | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
pension age will increase in the 2040s, affecting people in their 40s | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
now. There were some goodies, like discounted business rates for small | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
businesses, free school meals for infants, favoured by the Lib Dems, | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
and those marriage tax breaks below that by the Tories. But, as with all | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
big fiscal events, it takes a while for the details to sink in. | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
The marriage tax allowance is a long-standing commitment that he | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
could not abandon. It does help those families were only one goes | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
out to work. It does not go to higher rate taxpayers, I don't | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
think. Perhaps it does, I can't remember. It makes me feel guilty, I | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
am taking them very seriously, but... Shall I give you them? There | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
is the Autumn Statement. Have that, a free gift from the Sunday | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
Politics. Is there no limit to the generosity of the BBC? | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
In the meantime, Twitter was awash with unflattering pictures of a | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
red-faced Ed Balls giving his response. Some pictures were more | :05:03. | :05:09. | |
than flattering than others. Is Ed Balls OK? Should we be worrying | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
about him? He looks very stressed. There is nothing to worry about in | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
terms of Ed balls and his analysis. He and Ed Miliband have been setting | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
the pace in terms of the focus on the living standards crisis. It was | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
very telling that there was not a mention of living standards last | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
time, we got 12 mentions this time. Never mind what he was saying, by | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
now everybody has a copy of the all-important paperwork. Time to | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
hand over to number cruncher extraordinaire Paul Johnson from the | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
Institute for Fiscal Studies. Of course it means that things are | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
significantly better this year and next than we thought they would be | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
just nine months ago. That has got to be good news. But it is also | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
worth looking at the growth figures a few years out. They have been | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
revised down a little bit. The reason is, the view of the office of | :06:02. | :06:10. | |
budget response ability is that the long run has not really changed very | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
much. We are getting a bit more growth now, but their view is that | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
it is at the cost of a little bit of the growth we will expect in the | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
years after the next general election. As the day draws to a | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
close, the one place there has definitely been no growth is the | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
graphics budget of my colleague, graphics budget of my colleague | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
Robert Preston. It's as good as it gets these days, I don't think the | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
viewers will mind. It's very Sunday Politics, if I might say. That is | :06:40. | :06:47. | |
very worrying. Was this a watershed for George | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
Osborne? Was it a watershed for Ed Balls? We can all make the case that | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
it is the wrong sort of recovery, a consumer led recovery. People are | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
spending money they don't have. At the end of the day, it for George | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
Osborne, it is growth, the first time he has been able to talk about | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
growth. It allows him to control the baseline, the fiscal debate for the | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
next generation. For Ed Balls, nearly not a good performance. But | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
don't write this man off. Judging by Twitter, Iain Dale, no friend of it | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
all is, said he did a good interview this morning on a rival TV channel. | :07:22. | :07:30. | |
I feel the fact that the Tories hate Ed Balls so passionately is probably | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
a good reason that they should hang onto him, in that Labour sends his | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
effectiveness. May be the Tories hope that they hold on to him as | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
well? A lot of people shouting at someone and mocking their speech | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
impediment, that is politics that doesn't make me want to engage. The | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
takeaway will be lots of people thinking that none of these people | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
are people they like. Who is the main heckler on the Labour front | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
bench West remarked I suppose he can't cast any stones. It would be | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
easier to sympathise with him, if it were not that David Cameron went | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
through a similar situation and John Bercow did not step in to stop the | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
wall of noise. It was guaranteed a good happen to a Labour politician. | :08:16. | :08:23. | |
It's painful to remove him because he had a Parliamentary following and | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
he will kick up a fuss. I think he's much more pragmatic on issues like | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
business than Ed Miliband. I'm told he wasn't keen on the energy price | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
freeze. The problem with Ed Balls, to have the first words that you | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
say, the Chancellor is in denial, after he is presiding over growth, | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
it means nobody is listening to you. Who would replace him? Certainly not | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
Alistair Darling, the side of the referendum and even afterwards. Ed | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
Balls did get a roasting in the press and on Twitter. He seemed to | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
disappear from public view following the Autumn Statement. But a little | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
bird tells me he managed one interview this morning before he | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
went off to an all-important piano recital this afternoon. Watch out, | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
Jools Holland, he could be after your job. How bad was his | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
performance on Thursday? Here is the Shadow Chancellor in action. The | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
Chancellor is incomplete denial about the central facts that are | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
defining this government in office. He used to say he would balance the | :09:29. | :09:38. | |
books in 2015. Now he wants us to congratulate him for saying he will | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
do it in 2019, Mr Speaker. With this government, it is clearly not just | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
the badgers that move the goalposts. No mention of the universal credit | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
in the statement. IDS, in deep shambles, Mr Speaker. Chris Leslie | :09:59. | :10:07. | |
is the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. He is Ed Balls's deputy, | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
in other words. Why do more and more of your Labour colleagues think that | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
your boss is below the water line? I'm not sure I accept the premise of | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
your suggestion. I don't think my colleagues believe that George | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
Osborne has a superior argument. I think Ed Balls will certainly trying | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
his best, loud and clear, to make the case there is a cost of living | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
crisis in this country and the Chancellor doesn't understand this. | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
That was essentially the heat of the debate on the Autumn Statement day. | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
One leading Labour MPs said to me that Ed Balls is always looking | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
back, fixated with the rear-view mirror, that was the exact quote. A | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
Labour MP told Sky News, Labour has a strong argument to make, | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
unfortunately it was not made well in the chamber today. Quoting the | :10:58. | :11:06. | |
Daily Mail, this is two poor performances. A quote that I can't | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
use because it uses too many four letter words. Baroness Armstrong, | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
speaking at Progress, a former Labour Cabinet minister, we are not | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
sufficiently concerned about public spending, how we would pay for what | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
we are talking about. Quite a battering? There were two sets of | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
quotes you were giving. The couple were about the strategy for tackling | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
public expenditure. I think it's fair that we talk about that. The | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
rest were pretty unattributed, nameless sources. You have never | :11:40. | :11:50. | |
given and of the record briefing? We have conversations off camera, but I | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
don't think you have a wealth of evidence to say that somehow Ed | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
Balls's arguments were wrong. He was making the point that, ultimately, | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
it is a government that does not have its finger on the pulse about | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
what most of your viewers are concerned about, that wages are | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
being squeezed and prices are getting higher and higher. You have | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
had time to study the Autumn Statement. What part of it does | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
Labour disagree with? It is a very big question. I think the overall | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
strategy the Autumn Statement is setting out does not deal with the | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
fundamental problems in the economy. What measures do you disagree with? | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
A lot of it is the absence of measures we would have put in if we | :12:38. | :12:39. | |
were doing the Autumn Statement. If were doing the Autumn Statement If | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
you are going to deal with the cost of living crisis, you have got to | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
get productivity levels up in our society. One of the best ways of | :12:46. | :12:47. | |
doing that is on infrastructure We doing that is on infrastructure. We | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
believe in bringing forward 's investment and housing, getting some | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
of the fundamentals right in our economy. By planting, the business | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
lending we have to do. We have seen a lamentable failing. There are big | :13:05. | :13:13. | |
structural reforms that we need. Ultimately, the public are concerned | :13:14. | :13:14. | |
about the cost of living crisis. about the cost of living crisis | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
That has got to be childcare help, a 10p starting rate of tax. Above | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
all, and energy price freeze, which still this government are refusing | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
to do. On Friday, you told me you supported the principle of a welfare | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
cap. But you change bling claim the Chancellor's cap included pensions. | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
You have now seen the figures, and it does not include pensions, | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
correct? We do want a welfare cap. The government have said they are | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
going to put more detail on this in the March budget. But it does not | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
include pensions? We think they have a short term approach to the welfare | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
cap. They put in some pension benefits. The state pension is not | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
in the short-term plan because, as we believe, a triple lock is a good | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
idea. In the longer term, if you are talking about structural welfare | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
issues, you do have to think about pensions because they have to be | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
sustainable if we are living longer. I think that is about the | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
careful management. Let me show you what Ed Balls said on this programme | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
at the start of the summer. As for pensioners, I think this is a real | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
question. George Osborne is going to announce his cap in two weeks time. | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
I don't know if he will exclude pension spending or including. Our | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
plan is to include it. Pension spending would be included in the | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
welfare cap? That is our plan, exactly what I just said. Over the | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
long-term, if you have a serious welfare cap structural welfare | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
issues, over 20, 30, 40 year period, you can't say that we will | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
not work and pensions as part of that. Pensions would be part of the | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
Labour cap? In the longer term. What is the longer term? If you win 015? | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
We want to stick with the triple lock on the pension, that is the | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
Government approach to their short-term welfare cap. In the | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
longer term, for example, on the winter fuel allowance, we should not | :15:17. | :15:23. | |
necessarily be... There are lots of benefits... I understand that, I am | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
talking about the basic state pension, is that part of your | :15:27. | :15:27. | |
welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30, pension, is that part of your | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30 40 welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30, 40 | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
year frame... Even you will not be around in government, then. You are | :15:36. | :15:45. | |
writing me off already. You have to focus on welfare changes, pensions | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
have to be affordable as part of that. It's dangerous to say, well, | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
if you are going to have a serious welfare cap, we should not look at | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
pensions cost. It would be irresponsible. Will pensions be part | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
of the cap from 2015 until 2020 if Labour is in power? In our long-term | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
cap we have to make sure... I'm talking about 2015-16. We haven t | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
talking about 2015-16. We haven't seen the proposition the Government | :16:15. | :16:15. | |
has put before us. You claim people of ?1600 worse off | :16:16. | :16:28. | |
under the coalition. That is true when you compare to pay and prices. | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
Can you confirm that calculation does not include the ?700 tax cut | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
from raising the income tax threshold, huge savings on mortgages | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
because of low interest or the freezing of council tax? It doesn't | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
include the tax and benefit changes. If you do want to look at | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
those, last year, the ISS said they could be making people worse off. It | :16:54. | :16:55. | |
might not include those factors. could be making people worse off. It | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
might not include those factors The VAT increase, tax credit cuts, child | :17:00. | :17:08. | |
benefit cuts, they all add up. My understanding is that the ISS | :17:09. | :17:10. | |
figures have said people are ?891 figures have said people are ?8 1 | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
worse off if you look at the tax and benefit changes since 2010. You have | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
to look at wages and prices. The ISS confirmed our approach was broadly | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
the right way of assessing what is happening. The Chancellor was | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
saying, real household disposable incomes are rising. He is completely | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
out of touch. Can you sum up the macro economic policy for Labour? | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
Invest in the future, make sure we have the right approach for the | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
long-term politicking. Tackle the cost of living crisis people are | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
facing. Now, let's talk to the Financial | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
Secretary to the Treasury, Sajid Javid. | :17:55. | :18:02. | |
Discovery, underpinned by rising house prices, increasing personal | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
debt, do you accept that is unsustainable? | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
I accept the OBE are also said the reason why this country is facing | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
more these challenges -- OBR. That is because we went through a | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
Labour recession, the worst we have seen in 100 years. But do you accept | :18:26. | :18:33. | |
that a recovery underpinned by these things I have just read out isn't | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
sustainable? We set out a long-term plan for recovery, and again this | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
week. We have shown with the tough decisions we have made already, the | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
country can enjoy a recovery. There are still a lot of difficult | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
decisions. The biggest risk are Labour's plans. The March | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
projections work at for those -- Labour's plans. The March | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
projections work at for those - for both business investment and | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
exports. Suddenly it is expected to rise 5% next year, a 10% turnaround | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
in investment. How is it credible? I have been in business before | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
politics. Any business person listening will know, when you have | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
gone through a recession, the deepest in 100 years, it will hit | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
investment, profits, you can't make plans again until you have | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
confidence in the economy. That is what this country is seeing now | :19:35. | :19:42. | |
under this government. This is an assumption made independently. The | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
fall in business investment is because of the recession. The | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
forecast increases, 5% next year, and so on, it is based on the | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
independent forecast. Based on fact. If you look at the investment plans | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
of companies, this week, the Chancellor went to JCB, Jaguar Land | :20:08. | :20:15. | |
Rover has plans to create more jobs, these investment plans are | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
coming through now because of the confidence generated by this | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
government, such as the cut in corporation tax which Labour would | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
increase. Are the export forecasts more credible? The 15 years, our | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
share of world trade decline. Suddenly starting next year, it | :20:34. | :20:41. | |
stops falling. That's not credible. I worked in finance the 20 years. I | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
have yet to find any forecast which is fully right. Under Labour, we | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
would have forecasts made by Gordon Brown who would announce he would | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
hit all his targets. Now we have an independent system. | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
Do you accept, if exports or business investment do not pick up, | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
then a purely consumer led recovery is not sustainable? We need more | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
than a consumer led recovery. We need consumer investment to go up. | :21:16. | :21:23. | |
On Xbox, it is noticeable that experts are primarily down because | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
the markets we trade with, the eurozone markets, are depressed. | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
eurozone markets, are depressed Many have just come out of | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
recession. Or they are still in recession. If you look at exports to | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
non-EU countries, they are up 30%. non-EU countries, they are up 3 %. | :21:38. | :21:47. | |
120% to China. 100% to Russia. Will you keep the triple lock for | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
the state pension beyond 2015? Yes, long term. That's why it is not part | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
of our welfare cap. Chris Leslie cannot answer that question. It is | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
straightforward. House prices are now rising ten | :22:04. | :22:11. | |
times faster than average earnings. That's not good. House prices are | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
rising, partly reflecting recovery. Ten times faster than average | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
earnings, how can people afford to buy homes if it carries on? What you | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
would hope, this is the evidence, if you look at the plans of the month | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
companies, they are planning new homes which will mean that, as this | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
demand spurs that investment, more homes will come about. We need to | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
give people the means to buy those homes. We have introduced the help | :22:44. | :23:27. | |
to buy scheme. I accept the OBR says it will start rising again but as | :23:28. | :23:37. | |
household debt rises again Petr Cech reduces, -- as household debt | :23:38. | :23:51. | |
reduces, we need to make sure there are checks in place. Wages have not | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
been rising in real terms for quite some time. Over the next five years, | :23:57. | :24:05. | |
even as the economy grows, by about 15% according the OBR to the OBR -- | :24:06. | :24:17. | |
but people will not benefit. These hard-working families will not share | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
in the recovery. What is the best way to help those families? The | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
government doesn't set wages. What we can do is influence the overall | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
economy. We don't have a magic lever. Wages have been stagnating | :24:34. | :24:43. | |
for five years. When will people get a proper salary? The best way for | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
wage growth is a growing economy, more jobs. We have more people | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
employed in Britain today than at any time in our history. The biggest | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
risk to recovery is if we let Labour into the Treasury with more spending | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
and more debt. Which got us into this trouble. By whatever measure | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
you care to choose, would people be better off come the 20 15th election | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
than they were in 2010? Yes, they will be. Look at jobs. Already more | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
people employed than at any other time in history. Will they be better | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
off? The best way for anyone to raise their living standards is | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
access to a growing job market. But will they be better off? I believe | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
people will be. Compared to 2010. people will be. Compared to 201 . | :25:37. | :25:44. | |
Yes. In terms of take-home pay. This is a credible measure. | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
Now, what do you think the Education Secretary, Michael Gove, was like at | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
school? Hard-working? Hand always up? Top of the class? Well, if he | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
wasn't passionate about education then, he is now. In fact, since he | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
took office, it seems he hasn't stopped working very hard indeed. | :26:00. | :26:06. | |
When the coalition came to power, Michael Gove evoked Mao, saying they | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
were on a long march to reform education. Just like Mao, they faced | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
a baby boom, so pledged ?5 billion for new school places. They extended | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
Labour's academy programme. There's now about 3,000 in England. But | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
then, they marched even further creating free schools run by | :26:24. | :26:25. | |
parents, funded by taxpayers. 174 parents, funded by taxpayers. 1 4 | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
have opened so far. The schools admission code was changed, to give | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
parents more choice. And a pupil premium was introduced, | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
currently, an extra ?900 funding for each disadvantaged child. | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
An overhaul of the national curriculum provoked criticism. | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
Chairman Gove mocked detractors as "bad academia". But exam reforms | :26:46. | :26:53. | |
didn't quite go to plan. Although GCSEs got harder, plans to replace | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
A-levels had to be abandoned. Ultimately, the true test of these | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
reforms will be what happens in the classroom. The person in charge of | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
making sure those classrooms are up to scratch in England is the Chief | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
Inspector Of Schools, head of Ofsted, Michael Wilshaw, who joins | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
me now. Over the past 15 years, we have | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
doubled spending on schools even allowing for inflation. By | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
international standards, we are stagnating, why? I said last year | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
that mediocrity had settled into the system. Too many children were | :27:29. | :27:38. | |
coasting in schools, which is why we changed the grading structure, we | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
removed that awful word, satisfactory. Saying that good is | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
now the only acceptable standard and schools had a limited time in which | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
to get to that. We are seeing gradually, it is difficult to say | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
this in the week we have had the OECD report. Things have gradually | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
improved. I will come onto that in a minute. Explain this. International | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
comparisons show us flat-lining or even falling in some subjects, | :28:09. | :28:10. | |
including science. For 20 years, our including science. For 20 years our | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
domestic exam results just got better and better. Was this a piece | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
of fiction fed to us by the educational establishment, was there | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
a cover-up? There is no question there has grade inflation. I speak | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
as an ex-headteacher who saw that in examinations. Perceptual state is | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
actually doing something about that. Most good heads will say that is | :28:37. | :28:46. | |
about time. We have to be credible. Do politicians and educationalists | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
conspire in this grade inflation? It might suit politicians to say things | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
are going up every year. As a head, I knew a lot of the exams youngsters | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
were sitting were not up to scratch. The latest OECD study places us 36th | :29:01. | :29:08. | |
for maths, 23rd reading, slipping down to 21st in science. Yet, | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
Ofsted, your organisation, designates 80% of schools as good or | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
outstanding. That's another fiction. This year, we have. If we see this | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
level of progress, it has been a remarkable progress over the last | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
years since we changed our grading structure, then... In a year, | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
absolutely. We have better teachers coming into our school system. | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
Better leaders. Better schools. The big challenge for our country is | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
making sure that progress is maintained which will eventually | :29:44. | :29:44. | |
translate into better outcomes. These figures are pretty much | :29:45. | :29:55. | |
up-to-date. Are you saying within a year 80% of the schools are good | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
enough? All of the schools we upgraded have had better grades in | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
GCSE and grade 2. We have to make sure that is maintained. The | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
Government has based its reforms on similar reforms in Sweden. In | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
opposition they were endlessly going to Stockholm to find out how it was | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
done. Swedish schools are doing even worse than ours in the tables. Why | :30:17. | :30:24. | |
are we copying failure? The secretary of state believes, and I | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
actually believe, as somebody who has come from an academy model, that | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
if you hand power and resources, you hand autonomy to the people on the | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
ground, to the people in the classroom, in the corridors, in the | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
playgrounds, things work. If you allow the great monoliths that used | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
to have responsibility for education in the past to take control again, | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
you will see a reverse in standards. You have got to actually empower | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
those people that make the difference. That is why autonomy and | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
freedom is important. We spent a lot of money moving what were local | :31:01. | :31:03. | |
authority schools to become academies and new free school czar | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
being set up as well. When the academies are pretty much the same | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
level of autonomy, the free school is maybe a little bit more, the | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
evidence we have had so far is that they don't really perform any better | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
than local authority schools? Indeed, Encore GCSE subjects, they | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
might even be doing worse? These are early days. We will say more about | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
this on weapons they when we produce the annual report. The sponsored | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
academies that took over the worst schools in the country, in the most | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
difficult circumstances, in the most disadvantaged communities, are doing | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
much better now. What about GCSE? They are doing GCSE equivalents, the | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
They are doing GCSE equivalents the lass academic subjects question my | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
cull OK, but they are doing better than previous schools. If you look | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
at the top performing nations in the world, they focus on the quality of | :31:55. | :32:07. | |
teaching. The best graduates coming to education. They professionally | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
develop them. They make sure they spot the brightest talents and get | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
them into positions as soon as possible. We have got to do the same | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
if we are going to catch up with those jurisdictions. This isn't just | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
a British problem. It seems to be a European problem. The East Asian | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
countries now dominate the top of the tables. What's the most | :32:29. | :32:31. | |
important lesson we should learn from East Asia? Attitudes to work. | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
We need to make sure that we invest in good teachers, good leaders. We | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
have to make sure that students have the right attitudes to work. It s | :32:44. | :32:44. | |
have to make sure that students have the right attitudes to work. It's no | :32:45. | :32:44. | |
the right attitudes to work. It s no good getting good people into the | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
classroom and then seeing them part of teaching by bad behaviour, | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
disaffected youngsters and poor leadership. We see young teachers | :32:53. | :33:00. | |
doing well for a time and then being put off teaching and leaving from | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
that sort of culture in our schools. Are you a cheerleader for government | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
education policy rather than independent inspectors? I am | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
independent, Ofsted is independent. I believe we are saying the right | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
things on standards. The Association of teachers and lecturers say you | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
are an arm of government. The NUT has called for your resignation. | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
Another wants to abolish or Inspectorate. Have you become a | :33:28. | :33:30. | |
pariah amongst teaching unions? If we are challenging schools to become | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
better, that is our job, we will carry on doing that. I am not going | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
to preside over the status quo. We will challenge the system to do | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
better, we will challenge schools and colleges to do better. We will | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
also challenge government when we think they are going wrong. Many | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
people in the education establishment think your primary | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
purpose is to do the Government's bidding by shepherding schools into | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
becoming academies. Not true at all. You are a big supporter of | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
academies? Yes, I believe the people that do the business in schools are | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
the people that are free to do what is necessary to raise standards. I | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
am a big supporter of autonomy in the school system. But where we see | :34:16. | :34:23. | |
academies Vale, where we see free schools fail, we will say so. The | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
study does not find much evidence that competition and choice raise | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
standards, but it does go with you and say that strong school | :34:36. | :34:37. | |
leadership, coupled with autonomy, can make a difference. Can somebody | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
with no experience in education be in charge of a school? A lot of hot | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
air has been expounded on the issue of whether teachers should be | :34:47. | :34:49. | |
qualified or not. If qualified teacher status was the gold | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
standard, why is it that one in three teachers, one in three lessons | :34:54. | :35:01. | |
that will observe are not good enough. Taught by qualified | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
teachers. I've not yet met a headteacher that has not appointed | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
by qualified staff when they cannot get qualified teachers. Their job is | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
to make sure they get accredited as soon as possible and come up to | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
scratch in the classroom. Do you support the use of unqualified | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
teachers? I do. I have done it. If I could not get a maths, physics or | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
modern languages teacher and I thought somebody straight from | :35:27. | :35:28. | |
university, without qualified teachers start this, that they could | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
communicate well with youngsters, I would get that person into the | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
classroom and get them accredited if they delivered the goods. If we are | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
going to allow schools to have more autonomy and not be accountable to | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
local authorities, free schools academies, don't you have to do... | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
New entrants will be coming into the market, the educational marketplace. | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
Do you not have to act more quickly when it is clear, and there has been | :35:55. | :36:02. | |
examined recently, where it is clearly going badly wrong and | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
children's education at risk? Absolutely. I made a point to the | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
secretary of state and it is something I will talk more about | :36:10. | :36:12. | |
over the coming year. We need to be in school is much more often. If a | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
school fails at the moment, or underperforms, goes into this new | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
category, Her Majesty 's inspectors stay with that institution until it | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
improves. Sometimes we don't see a school for five or seven years. That | :36:27. | :36:28. | |
improves. Sometimes we don't see a is wrong. My argument is that Ofsted | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
should pay a much greater part in monitoring the performance of | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
schools between those inspections. Are you enjoying it? It is a tough | :36:36. | :36:43. | |
job. Are you enjoying it? This is a tough job, but I enjoy it. | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
Sometimes. You are watching Sunday Politics. | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
Coming up in just over 20 minutes, Diane Abbott will be joining us. And | :36:53. | :36:54. | |
we will have Welcome to Sunday Politics. On | :36:55. | :37:15. | |
today's shawl, just 10% of the water quality in Berks meets quality | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
standards. The environment agency is responsible for bringing the | :37:22. | :37:23. | |
remaining 90% up to scratch but it is losing one in six of its staff. | :37:24. | :37:35. | |
We are joined by the Labour MP for Southampton and the Conservative MP | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
for sale. It is all about money in your pocket. `` Fairham. It is about | :37:40. | :37:50. | |
getting people into work because when people are in work it is better | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
for them. We have seen the private sector creates jobs and you have the | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
big picture and economy rise which will drive the prosperity of the | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
whole economy. You admit there is no feel`good? There are significant | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
challenges but what the government has been able to do is because of | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
the long`term view we have taken, we are cutting tax bills. If you look | :38:17. | :38:24. | |
at disposable income, it has actually risen. We have cancelled | :38:25. | :38:34. | |
the next increase in fuel duty, 20p a litre lower than it would have | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
been. These are the sort of things the government can do. Getting the | :38:39. | :38:46. | |
economy growing as it is, and the projections are faster than it was | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
in the budget, that is the right way to get the economy and Britain | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
going. The Conservatives are resurgent in Parliament and it is | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
all working? That is out of touch with the vast majority of people I | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
represent. The Tories are cheering because we have a small bit of | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
growth after the period where the economy did not grow because of | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
their policies. For most people, times are tough and people are worse | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
off than they were. The great danger as this will be a recovery that | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
benefits the really well off, the people that have had the big tax | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
cuts, not for ordinary families because they have not dealt with | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
things like energy companies. There has been some recovery and that is | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
good and for all Ed Balls has said... We said at the beginning, if | :39:40. | :39:47. | |
you cut public spending too far and too fast the economy will flat line. | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
It said that for three years and thank goodness there is growth, but | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
we were told to tighten our belts and we would deal with the deficit. | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
Now, another five years and then we will have dealt with it. It is not a | :40:04. | :40:14. | |
success. It will take us long now to deal with the deficit as we were | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
told in 2010. All that pain and the deficit is no better today. The | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
reality is when we came into office there was a UK economic crisis going | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
on. It is about external prices like oil going up. The eurozone crisis, | :40:35. | :40:47. | |
big export problems. The reality is that plans we put into place to | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
tackle the deficit are being to work. Labour said you are never | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
going to see the increase in employment or CD private sector | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
creating jobs. Ed Miliband has lost the arguments. You said he would | :41:04. | :41:11. | |
have four times as much growth as we have now learned everything you said | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
has failed completely. ?54 million is how much carers UK reckons is | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
going unclaimed by carers in our region. They were recently had just | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
`` produced a breakdown of people eligible but who are not claiming. | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
In Southampton there are 1276 missing out on funding and 345 | :41:35. | :41:45. | |
people in your constituency. Joining me now as a representative of Carers | :41:46. | :41:56. | |
UK. Why are people not claiming? The fundamental reason is that people do | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
not consider themselves to be carers, they are just doing what | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
families do. If a family member needs help, you help that person, or | :42:05. | :42:11. | |
if your parents are starting to get frail and needing help, again, | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
people do that and what they do not think of is how will I manage | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
financially? Quite often they miss out. You are saying they ought to be | :42:21. | :42:29. | |
encouraged in some way? We need everyone to do their sons friends | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
and family recognise this but public services have a critical role to | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
play. Your GP does not have to be benefits experts but if they are | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
worried, they should be able to say, are you considering benefits? People | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
can end up in often extreme poverty if they have missed out for a couple | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
of years and the benefits also protect the pension. We have some | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
real hardship out there. We have about one in ten people using credit | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
cards just to make ends meet. We know that is storing up a lot of | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
problems for the future, and a lot of the debates and the Autumn | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
Statement are about the choice between heating and eating. What | :43:14. | :43:21. | |
about the benefits changes? Are things going to get better or | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
worse? It is a really complicated system and there are some changes | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
which have happened already that are quite difficult. The changes that | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
housing benefit and bedroom tax are heading carers particularly hard | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
because of the way the rules are drawn. They do not really understand | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
that people can need two bedrooms because if they have a hospital bed | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
they cannot share the bed. Let's put these points. We are going through a | :43:54. | :44:06. | |
whole process of benefit reform of one of the challenges is that if you | :44:07. | :44:15. | |
claim for carers allowance, people are eligible for personal living | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
allowance and independence payments and it is about joining up the dots | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
for some people. If you have jobseeker's allowance you can get a | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
carers premium but you have to know what is there, and we are trying to | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
make sure people can get better information. It is trying to make it | :44:32. | :44:43. | |
much more automatic. It is estimated that 10,000 people will lose these | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
payments in that situation? There are some bad changes coming in the | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
bedroom tax should be just scrapped because it is a badly designed to | :44:55. | :45:01. | |
change, but the issue we should pick on, and when I led the Carers UK | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
press release, most weeks and my advice surgery I will probably see | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
somebody who is a carer. If they come to speak to me about financial | :45:11. | :45:17. | |
circumstances, fact they are carer comes up by the by, do I always ask | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
if they have the carers allowance? All of us who may come into contact | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
with carers need to know enough to say, you should ask about this. Is | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
it just the transition early change or a cultural thing, or what should | :45:33. | :45:39. | |
we do differently? All those things. People on the whole do not want to | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
claim benefits but it is a really important system that helps to | :45:45. | :45:46. | |
support people who cannot work full`time. The government website is | :45:47. | :45:54. | |
actually very good on benefit entitlement so I would just | :45:55. | :45:56. | |
encourage people to think about it and spread the word and get advice. | :45:57. | :46:05. | |
Only 27% of water bodies in the UK meet the beefed up EU water quality | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
standards, and we have just 15 Stan `` 15 years to get BS to Mark. With | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
the Environment Agency losing funding and staffing, that could be | :46:18. | :46:30. | |
a problem. We are people that care about issues | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
like Habitat and water quality and a lot of my is really about supporting | :46:35. | :46:42. | |
Habitat enhancement schemes. Clean and clear water and make this | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
stretch of the river a nirvana for anglers. This former MP, used to | :46:47. | :46:56. | |
stalking the corridors of Westminster, he still wield some | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
power in the world of fishing as the head of the angling trust. A river | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
that supports a healthy fish population is likely to support a | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
healthy water vole population and kingfishers and heavens. It is in | :47:14. | :47:23. | |
everybody's interests. `` herons. The revellers getting cleaner by the | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
year. It has two, tough targets have been set by the EU meaning our | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
rivers have to be much less polluted and home to a greater variety of | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
wildlife. We have until 2027 to meet the targets but there is an awfully | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
long way to go as at the moment only 10% of this river and the | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
contributing streams are meeting the targets. | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
The buck stops with the Environment Agency but government cuts means has | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
two shared 1500 jobs by next October, one in six of the | :48:00. | :48:11. | |
workforce. `` to cut 1500 jobs. This is a real conservation species, a | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
beautiful small fish. How clean does the lover have to be for them? It | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
has to be very clean for them to thrive in the way they are clearly | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
doing here. They are rarer sight in other parts of the lover. 90% is not | :48:28. | :48:36. | |
up to scratch. Pinning the blame is not easy. It is down to different | :48:37. | :48:45. | |
sorts of pressures. Pressure from development and agriculture and | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
factory discharges, and also destruction in some places of | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
habitats. Generally, the water is improving. Reducing pollution from | :48:57. | :49:04. | |
farmers fields, industry and new housing development is essential. | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
Some say it will all mean nothing unless we change our behaviour. We | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
are producing a lot of the waste that ends up in the reverence, | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
either through products that are farmed intensively, and also using | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
products only domestic bases. As it as simple as not using as much or | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
different types? Products that are much kinder for the environment, | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
things that once they go through the system, the river levels can cope | :49:41. | :49:51. | |
with the level of effluence. Losing 15% of the staff means the | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
Environment Agency has to rely on an ever`growing army of volunteers. | :49:55. | :50:02. | |
Local people want to take ownership of these issues and get stuck in. I | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
am confident we can do what is required. They can be crucial in | :50:09. | :50:16. | |
driving these changes in partnership with angling clubs and the Rivers | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
trust and community groups and environmental organisations. It will | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
be a challenge to get it anything near the level has to be by 2027. | :50:27. | :50:34. | |
To make that water quality directive, one in six of the staff | :50:35. | :50:42. | |
are getting rid of. It is a huge challenge and there is not a huge | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
amount of public money. They are a great public organisations who have | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
done fantastic things. The big question is, can you fill such a big | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
gap with enough volunteers in all the right places, and it will be a | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
huge challenge for the Environment Agency. People seem quite positive | :51:05. | :51:11. | |
about it, people who really care about this. They have taken over the | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
Titchfield canal from the Environment Agency who did not spend | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
much time on it. They thought they would be much better looking after | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
it and cleaning it out and preserving it than the Environment | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
Agency. There's a huge interest they ran the a lot of people are out | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
there who are keen to protect the environment. They wanted to do | :51:35. | :51:43. | |
something about the environment to help them and help the community and | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
the future. A lot more houses coming, haven't we? We can design | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
these to be more environmentally friendly than they weren't the | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
past. In Israel, 90% of the water is reuse, and that is something we can | :52:00. | :52:08. | |
do. It is about technology and commitment and we cannot rely on the | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
Environment Agency to do everything. It was billed as the biggest ever | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
trade delegation we have sent overseas and joining the Prime | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
Minister and his trip to China were a good number from our region. One | :52:21. | :52:32. | |
of the 150 was Hugh Wales. `` Wells/ There he is in the picture of them | :52:33. | :52:40. | |
leaving. Hopefully over the jet lag, did you have a good trip? What have | :52:41. | :52:47. | |
you brought back? We do not do any business in China at the moment so | :52:48. | :52:50. | |
what we have brought back is good knowledge of what China is about. We | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
sell to Japan which is close but very different. We have come back | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
with a much wider knowledge of what the market is like. What do you | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
think it could be in the years ahead? In China at the moment, there | :53:06. | :53:15. | |
are 600 million middle`class consumers coming up. At the moment, | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
1% of imports into China are British. If that became 2% it would | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
have the national deficit. That is why China is so important. `` half | :53:28. | :53:37. | |
the national deficit. Are they taking us seriously? I think they | :53:38. | :53:45. | |
are. The political climate has been a bit frosty but going in the with | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
such a big delegation, it showed that in Britain we are open for | :53:51. | :53:58. | |
business. We need to get some of that and make China work for us. | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
There is a rebalancing between China being a producer and the consumer. | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
As it becomes a consumer, we can try to get some of our high`quality | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
British design goods in there. They are called luxury lines, that is the | :54:14. | :54:23. | |
market you are aiming at? The rich Chinese are interested in some very | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
expensive products but with this 600 million consumer base it is luxury | :54:30. | :54:36. | |
like they are looking at. `` luxury light. We do signage and cladding | :54:37. | :54:47. | |
for underground systems, and the building going on in China requires | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
new and innovative building materials. As part of that, I spoke | :54:52. | :54:58. | |
to numerous architects and said, how about looking at some of our stuff | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
made on the Isle of Wight? It is a bit of a drop in the ocean taking | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
150 people out but there's a drop in the ocean taking 150 people like but | :55:09. | :55:10. | |
is changing the culture of companies? I think it is and it is | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
making people think about the opportunities that are out there. | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
Understanding more about the market and what it could mean. Huge support | :55:18. | :55:29. | |
from the UK trade industry with businesses small and large looking | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
to do business out there. It is a fantastic opportunity. In some of | :55:36. | :55:42. | |
this window dressing? It is important to do it and do it well. | :55:43. | :55:48. | |
The challenge is to say Britain is all very well but it is an old | :55:49. | :55:56. | |
country. We do have to understand that we are also in a position where | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
we want a nuclear power station and it has to be built by a French and | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
Chinese company, sorry lot has to be done here to increase the number of | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
companies that have the capacity to export. Much as much as possible we | :56:09. | :56:16. | |
have to build up our core economic strength much better than it is at | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
the moment. London taxis, why do they have to be moved to China? Why | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
could we not have the investment to export them here? | :56:29. | :56:31. | |
We must not miss opportunities. Thank you for coming in. Our regular | :56:32. | :56:37. | |
round`up of the political week in the south. | :56:38. | :56:47. | |
Hydroelectric power has come to the River Thames. The community or in | :56:48. | :56:54. | |
scheme replaces a weir and low`power 60 homes. | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
Sussex pesticides campaigner has claimed victory in her 12 year | :57:01. | :57:03. | |
battle to get the government to tighten up on chemicals used in crop | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
spraying. Hampshire police have been visiting scrap dealers enforce new | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
regulations and buying and selling for cash is illegal. | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
The Civil rights activist Jesse Jackson told the Oxford union | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
University does not do enough to encourage ethnic minorities. They | :57:22. | :57:34. | |
must be equipped to deal with multiracial multicultural world. | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
The Christmas lights are up in Newbury but a plan to guarantee the | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
homeless a hospital place was abandoned when people turned up from | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
as far away as Birmingham. `` hostel place. | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
It says something it was quite so popular. Jesse Jackson criticising a | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
lack of diversity at Oxford University. In the week of Nelson | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
Mandela's death, should we learn from his example? There are many | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
extraordinary things about him but one of the most was when he became | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
president, he could have easily said, we have been badly treated and | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
now the majority will take everything. It was the magnanimity | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
to say I want a country that is equal for everybody. When we look at | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
our own country, the lesson should be to keep on working until we have | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
true equality of opportunity. Do you take that lesson? I think it is a | :58:36. | :58:42. | |
really good lesson. It would be very easy to come from Robben Island and | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
be very better but he showed great humanity and was magnanimous. He | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
reached out to people who disagreed with him and there is a lesson about | :58:52. | :58:54. | |
how you deal with conflict and its resolution. A lesson for politicians | :58:55. | :59:01. | |
everywhere, working on coalitions rather than opposition? The way he | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
reached out to people demonstrates you can work together on these | :59:07. | :59:12. | |
issues, it is important to agree and cooperate. We can be too much | :59:13. | :59:19. | |
focused on division. That is, rather than where we can work together. It | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
will be a huge memory for so many people? For somebody of my | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
generation, apartheid was one of the first issues that made me think, | :59:30. | :59:36. | |
what are my values? Do I take the world the way as it has or play a | :59:37. | :59:40. | |
little part if I can in changing it? A huge number of people had that | :59:41. | :59:46. | |
response to the issue and to heaven. Thank you both for being on the | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
programme. That is all from us. `` and to him. | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
Tomorrow, the House of Commons will pay its tributes to Nelson Mandela. | :59:58. | :00:22. | |
Our nation has lost its greatest son. Our people have lost a father. | :00:23. | :00:42. | |
The first thing I ever did that involved an issue or policy, or | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
politics, was protest against apartheid. | :00:50. | :00:56. | |
I think his greatest legacy, to South Africa and to the world, is | :00:57. | :01:06. | |
the emphasis which he has always put on the need for a conciliation, on | :01:07. | :01:16. | |
the importance of human rights. He also made us understand that we can | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
change the world. We can change the world by changing attitudes, by | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
changing perceptions. For this reason, I would like to pay him | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
tribute as a great human being, who raised the standard of humanity. | :01:32. | :01:43. | |
Thank you for the gift of Madiba. Thank you for what he has enabled us | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
to know we can become. We are joined now by the Labour MP | :01:48. | :02:05. | |
Diane Abbott. You met Mr Mandela not one after he was released from | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
prison in 1990. He went as an election observer for the first one | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
person, one-vote in South Africa. I would guess, of all the people you | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
met in your life, you must have been the most impressive and biggest | :02:20. | :02:20. | |
influence? He was extraordinary He influence? He was extraordinary. He | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
had just come out of prison, 28 years in reason. He had seen a lot | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
of his colleagues tortured, blown up and killed. He was entirely without | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
bitterness. That is what came across. That was key to his | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
achievement, to achieve a peaceful transition. Everybody thought that | :02:42. | :02:42. | |
if you have black majority rule, you if you have black majority rule you | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
might have a bloodbath. It's down to Nelson Mandela but didn't happen. I | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
remember FW de Klerk saying that Mandela was the key to getting a | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
peaceful transition. Absolutely the key, an amazing man. London was one | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
of the centres, people talked about it as being the other centre of the | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
anti-apartheid struggle. That anti-apartheid struggle in London, | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
it had an effect on black politics in Britain? Oh, yes. If you were | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
black and politically active at the time, the apartheid struggle, the | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
struggle against white supremacy in South Africa, was very important. | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
Whatever your colour, the anti-apartheid struggle, for our | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
generation, was the political campaign. We have the 50th | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
anniversary of Kennedy's assassination. Mr Mandela's death. | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
We are kind of running out of people that inspired us? I will never | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
forget where I was when I saw him come out of prison, hand-in-hand | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
with the women, I might add. If you have spent your whole teenage years | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
and 20 is boycotting, marching, picketing, to see him actually come | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
out was amazing. Do you think it was more exciting to meet you or the | :03:59. | :04:06. | |
Spice Girls? I think the Spice Girls. What did the Labour | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
backbenchers think about Ed Balls's performance after the Autumn | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
Statement? Luck, Ed Balls is a brilliant man, but I think even he | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
would say that it was not his best performance. But if you look at the | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
polls, the public liked the points he made. The backbenchers were | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
quiet, there was something wrong? I noticed that. It was like a wall of | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
sound, deliberately. They know that under pressure his stamina might | :04:38. | :04:39. | |
come back and it is difficult for him. That is what they were trying | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
to incite. I have had experience first hand, a look at all of these | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
anonymous and sometimes not anonymous quotes in the media. The | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
spinning has begun against him? This is the party of brotherly love, no | :04:55. | :05:04. | |
matter what the Tories say, we can say worse about each other. How | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
could it be that two former aides to Gordon Brown do not like each other? | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
Far be it from me to say. If he wanted to do it, and I'm not saying | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
he does, is Mr Miliband ruthless enough to get rid of Ed Balls? I | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
mean, he got rid of you, he got rid of his brother? One thing you should | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
not do is under estimate Ed Miliband's capacity for | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
ruthlessness. If he feels it is the right thing to do, he will do it. | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
It's not just a matter of... Ed Balls is a big, powerful | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
personality. He's great to interview because he is across his subject, | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
you can have a really good argument with him, a man that knows his | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
brief, his facts. But it's not just about the personality. There is a | :05:51. | :05:57. | |
kind of sense that Labour needs to look forwards more on economic | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
policy. Of course, the standard of living has been hugely successful | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
for Labour. But it needs more than that on economic policy? I think he | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
has been one of the most effective member 's Shadow Cabinet, and he's | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
always associated with the Brown years, where there is always an | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
element about, you were the guys that got it wrong. I think Ed | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
Miliband will be very tempted to replace him with Alistair Darling. | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
The scenario goes like this, Alistair Darling saves the union and | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
then in September he saves the Labour Party. Ultimately, I don't | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
think he would do it. Talk about shifting tectonic plates, it would, | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
wouldn't it? But it is a step too far. Ed Balls would not be too | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
happy. It is not something you would want to do lightly. That sounds a | :06:46. | :06:55. | |
bit of a threat. Not from you. I can't see Ed Balls magnanimously | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
retreating and say, go on, Alistair Darling, take the job I have been | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
after all career. Where do you put him? Do you make him a middle | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
ranking business or welfare secretary? He wouldn't do that. If | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
you sack him, he would retreat to the backbenchers. He might take up | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
knitting and practices piano scales, or he might have a blood feud with | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
Ed Miliband. I don't know which could be. You look back to when he | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
was schools Secretary, you could feel he was constantly fuming. I | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
think he is better inside the tent, looking out, than the other way | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
around. The thing one Labour strategist said to me was that he is | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
too much looking into the rear-view mirror, when it comes to economic | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
policy. He needs to look ahead through the windscreen. That had | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
some resonance? He was at the centre of Labour's economic policy-making | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
from the mid-90s. So it's hard for him but he has to look forward. | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
There is an interesting comparison with 2009. Gordon Brown got in | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
trouble when he said the choice is between Labour investment and Tory | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
cuts. Everybody knew it was between Labour cuts and Tory cuts. In other | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
words, he was not acknowledging reality. With Ed Balls, OK, we can | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
say it is the wrong sort of recovery, but there is a recovery. | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
Does he not need to absorb that punch and say there is a recovery, | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
then people will listen to him? Possibly. We know that the | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
macroeconomics are looking better. We also know people are not | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
experiencing it as a recovery in living standards. No one, not even | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
Tories, really believe that David Cameron knows what it is like for | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
middle-income people to live normal lives. Living standards is | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
particularly powerful because of the composition of the government? Don't | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
go away. This time last year we ambushed our political panel with a | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
quiz. They didn't come out of it smelling of roses, but they did come | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
out rather smelly. Will the coalition still be in place | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
a year from now? Yes. Definitely. I say definitely as well. From now, | :09:03. | :09:10. | |
one year, will we know the date of the European referendum? Yes. No. I | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
say no as well. How much growth will there be? Less than 1%. Father | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
Christmas is less qualified than me, but I will go for one. I will go for | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
a quarter of that. 0.4%. Sorry, a third of that. I am with you, and | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
1%. We didn't do too badly. What will growth be next year? I will | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
remind you, the OBR has upgraded to 2.4%. Better stick with the OBR, | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
remind you, the OBR has upgraded to 2.4%. Better stick with the OBR got | :09:47. | :09:46. | |
2.4%. Better stick with the OBR, got it wrong last year. Well, they went | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
down in March and then went back in December. I'm going to go under and | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
claim credit where it's higher. I'm going to say 1%. Deliberately get it | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
wrong. Given our record, if we say there is going to be spectacular | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
growth, does it mean we're going to go into recession? There is | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
incentive to be cautious. 2%. 2.4%, incentive to be cautious. 2%. 2 4%, | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
because the housing market in London is rocketing. It would be closer to | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
3% and 2.4, mark my words. We'll Ed Balls be Shadow Chancellor by this | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
time next year? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, I value my life. Will UKIP mean the | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
European elections, by which I mean have the highest percentage of the | :10:38. | :10:45. | |
vote? Yes. Second behind Labour Second behind Labour. Will Alex | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
Salmond win the independence referendum? No, but it will be | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
closer than we think. No, unless they do something catastrophic like | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
let Cameron debate him. Too close to call. Controversial. How many | :11:01. | :11:08. | |
Romanians and Bulgarians will come to Britain in 2014? Far fewer than | :11:09. | :11:18. | |
anyone thinks. The entire population of Romania and Bulgaria, like Nigel | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
Farage thanks. I'll go with that, I'm confident. A change of tone for | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
your magazine. Not many will come, but a lot here already will | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
normalise and be counted into figures. Too many for most | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
right-wing commentators. I think quite a few will come, but not the | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
kind of numbers that made such a huge difference. This time, | :11:42. | :11:51. | |
everybody is open. They do like to speak English, that is the reason | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
they want to come. We'll all three of you still be here by this time | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
next year? Yes. Would you recommend that? Yes, keep them. And he has | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
lovely boots. Shiny red boots. If you can keep affording me, I will be | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
here. I hope so, it sounds like you have a firing squad outside. I hope | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
so, maybe you will find some true talent. Very pragmatic, aren't they? | :12:22. | :12:29. | |
Let me put this to you, I think you will agree. The coalition will not | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
break now, this side of the election next year? There will not be... They | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
will not go their own ways by this time next year? Of next year, maybe | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
just after. Early 2015. This side of the election? What is the UKIP view? | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
I don't think there is an advantage to either of them. If the Lib Dems | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
pulled out, they would look like there were a lodger in the Tory | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
house of government. I think it would suit the Lib Dems to break | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
just before the election. I think that is what Vince Cable wants to | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
do. I don't think it is what Nick Clegg would like to do. The Tories | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
would love it. They would have all of the toys to themselves. Yellow | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
marker they would look like the grown-ups. The problem for Vince | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
Cable is that he's not the force that used to be after his temper | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
tantrum at the Conference. I will be back with the Daily | :13:26. | :13:34. | |
Politics next week. If Santer gives you a diary in your stocking, pencil | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
in Sunday the 20th of January, the first Sunday Politics of 2014. | :13:40. | :13:47. | |
Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Unless it is | :13:48. | :13:48. | |
Christmas. And New Year. | :13:49. | :13:51. |