Browse content similar to 12/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Commons Speaker John Bercow is accused of compromising his | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
impartiality by revealing he voted Remain in last year's EU referendum. | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
The EU Withdrawal Bill clears its first Parliamentary hurdle. | :00:46. | :00:54. | |
But will the House of Lords be quite so accommodating? | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
Labour's Leader in the Lords joins us live. | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
And we report from Stoke-on-Trent ahead of a crucial by-election | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
later this month, where Ukip is looking to give | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
In the South: Reorganising local government in Dorset - | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
six of the councils are in favour of the plans but three are opposed, | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
And with me a political panel who frequently like to compromise | :01:20. | :01:34. | |
Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Janan Ganesh. | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
I'll be trying to keep them in order during the course of the programme. | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
So, Commons Speaker John Bercow has insisted his ability | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
to act impartially is not damaged by reports that he voted to Remain | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
The Sunday Telegraph reveals that Speaker Bercow revealed his views | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
in front of an audience of students at Reading University | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
This may not be popular with some people in this audience - | :02:05. | :02:21. | |
I thought it was better to stay in the European Union than not, | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
partly for economic reason, being part of a big trade bloc, | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
and partly because I think we're in a world of power blocs, | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
and I think for all the weaknesses and deficiencies | :02:34. | :02:35. | |
of the European Union, it is better to be part of that big | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
Speaker Bercow speaking at Reading University earlier this month. Does | :02:39. | :02:49. | |
he not care is this I get that impression, he knows perfectly well, | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
it states he has to be particularly -- Parliamentary neural. Whether | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
there are going to be enough votes to force him out, the question, the | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
last speaker wept out with the 20 vote against him. You yes to have | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
the command of the support across the House. There is a Deputy | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
Speaker, waiting, who would be superb. I think even the people who | :03:15. | :03:23. | |
pretend to support Macis have had enough -- Speaker Bercow have had | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
enough of his ways. The reason I ask whether he care, he didn't just tell | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
the students that he voted to Remain, he then gave them a running | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
commentary on all the issues that will be part of the Brexit | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
negotiations, workers' rights, immigration, trade policy, everyone | :03:45. | :03:46. | |
maternity leave got a hat tip from him. He would be a very well | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
prepared Brexit minister if attendance needs a colleague -- | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
David Davis needs a colleague. I don't think this story makes his | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
position untenable, what does is the wired pattern of behaviour of | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
excessive candour on his political views, going back years, this is a | :04:06. | :04:13. | |
guy who when the Queen visited Parliament described her as theical | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
lied scope Queen. He had a running argument with David Cameron. We know | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
his views on Brexit, we know his views on Donald Trump. . He has | :04:24. | :04:33. | |
given interviews, none of the views are illegitimate but the candour | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
which they are expressed with is scrupulous. Given Lyndsay Hoyle is a | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
class accuse. He is the Deputy Speaker. And a fairly ready | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
replacement, whether there is more of a movement to say, maybe not | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
force Bercow out but acknowledge he has had a few years in the job and | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
the question of successor ship comes into play. Has he concluded he is | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
untouchable? What I can definitely say, is that he is determined to | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
fight this one out, and not go of his own volition, so if he goes he | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
will have to be forced out. He wants to stay. Which will be tough. It | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
will be tough. Likely as things stand. I would say this, I speak to | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
someone who likes the way he has brought the House of Commons to | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
life, held ministers to account, forced them into explain thing, | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
whenever there is a topical issue you know it will be in the House of | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
Commons. He has changed that. He has. Time has been courageous, Ied a | :05:33. | :05:39. | |
mire the way he has been a speaker. I would say this, during the | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
referendum campaign, he asked me Nick Clegg, and Peter Hitchens to | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
debate Brexit if his constituency. It was a packed out meeting. He | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
chaired it. I said don't you want to join in? He didn't. He showed no | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
desire to join in, he was impartial. He goes out to universities and kind | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
of demyth GCSEs Parliament by speaking to them in a way, he | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
doesn't gets credit for it and stays on after and drinks with them. | :06:13. | :06:20. | |
Sometimes he, you know, it is clearly a mistake to have gone into | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
his views retrospectively on that referendum campaign, I don't think | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
that, did he try and stop Article 50 from being triggered in the House of | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
Commons? That would be a scandal. Even that would be beyond him. | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
Briefly, yes or no, could you imagine Betty Boothroyd behaving | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
like that? Not at all. None of the recent speakers I could imagine | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
doing that. It is good he is different. | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
The bill that will allow the government to trigger Article 50 | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
and begin Brexit negotiations was voted through | :06:54. | :06:55. | |
Many MPs were in a difficult position - unsure whether to vote | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
with their conscience, their constituency, | :07:00. | :07:00. | |
Europe, once such a divisive issue for the Conservatives, | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
is now causing major divisions inside the Labour Party. | :07:05. | :07:06. | |
So, let's have a look what happened in a bit more detail: | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
Thanks to academic research carried out since the referendum, | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
we now have estimates of how each individual constituency voted. | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
It's thought that 410 constituencies voted Leave. | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
On Wednesday night, the EU Notification of Withdrawal Bill | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
was voted through by the House of Commons. | :07:30. | :07:31. | |
The bill left the Labour Party divided. | :07:32. | :07:40. | |
Jeremy Corbyn told his MPs to respect the result | :07:41. | :07:42. | |
of the referendum and vote for the government's bill - | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
But 52 Labour MPs defied Mr Corbyn's thee-line whip | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
That's about a fifth of the Parliamentary Labour Party. | :07:49. | :08:04. | |
Of those 52 Labour MPs who voted against the bill, | :08:05. | :08:06. | |
the majority, 45 of them, represent seats that voted Remain. | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
However, seven Labour MPs voted against the Article 50 Bill, | :08:10. | :08:11. | |
even though their constituents voted Leave in the referendum. | :08:12. | :08:13. | |
The Conservative Party were much more united. | :08:14. | :08:15. | |
The vast majority of Tory MPs, 320 of them, voted for the bill. | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
Just one Conservative MP, Ken Clarke, voted against it. | :08:19. | :08:20. | |
His constituency, Rushcliffe in Nottinghamshire, voted Remain. | :08:21. | :08:22. | |
The bill will now go to the House of Lords - | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
peers will start debating it on Monday the 20th of February. | :08:26. | :08:38. | |
Joining me now is Matthew Goodwin, politics professor at | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
He's got a book out next month called | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
Brexit: Why Britain Voted To Leave The European Union. | :08:44. | :08:45. | |
Welcome to the programme. Has Brexit, how you voted in the | :08:46. | :08:54. | |
referendum and your continuing attitudes toward it, is that now | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
becoming the new dividing line in British politics? I think it | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
certainly is contributing to a new dividing line, in western politics | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
more generally, we know over the last ten years, that the old left | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
and right division has been making way for a new division, between | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
essentially social liberals and Conservative, and Brexit was a, an | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
incident a moment that really reflected that new dividing line, so | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
it wasn't just the case that Brexit has cut across Labour's base, it is | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
that dividing line, that deeper division is cutting across social | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
democracies more generally. Is there a possibility, no higher than that, | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
that it will reShane our party politics? I think it is too early to | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
know whether this is a fundamental long-term realignment. If we look at | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
what is happening in local by-election, what is happening at | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
by-elections, pictures a bit mixed but if you look at how some of the | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
Labour vote is responding, I think that potentially reflects the | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
possibility of a terminal decline for the Labour Party, it is going to | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
be incredibly difficult for Labour to win these voters back, these are | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
traditional working class, socially Conservative voters who are leaving | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
the party, don't forget, since the 1997 general election. It is not | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
just because of the referendum. If that was the case, Labour would | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
become more a party of the Metropolitan areas, and less of a | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
party outside of these area, is that what you are saying? What we are S | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
seeing across the west can social democracy that retrenchment into the | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
cosmopolitan, Metropolitan city area, university towns, you can | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
seeing in many European states populist right parties filling the | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
traditional socialist area, why are they doing that? Because they are | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
offering two message, economic and cultural protectionism. Social | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
Democrats are clinging to that economic protectionism but not | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
saying much about migration and multiculturalism and that sort of | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
stuff. Are there deeper forces at work than Jeremy Corbyn? He often | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
gets the blame for what is happening to the Labour Party now, but if you | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
look the way the Greek socialist party has been wiped out. The German | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
Social Democrats are in trouble. The Italian socialist party has lost a | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
referendum. The French socialist are coming close to being wiped out on | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
April 23rd, Labour's problems, are part of a much wider problem of | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
social democracy S Jeremy Corbyn is a surface problem, what I mean by | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
that is you could replace him tosh with another leader, they would | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
still have this fundamental tension within the electorate. They are | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
trying to appeal to two differenter reconcilable groups of voters who | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
think differently about the key issues of the day. It is very | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
difficult for any centre left party now to assemble the kinds of | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
coalitionses we saw in the '90s with Clinton and Blair and Schroeder. | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
Those days are gone. Does that explain why it is now Labour, rather | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
than the Conservatives, historically the party divided over the European | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
Union, does all of that help to explain why its Labour that now | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
seems, disunited over the EU? I think so, I think also that the | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
issue of Brexit, and the EU, is so immatly wrapped up with that issue | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
of immigration, if you look at who has been abandoned Labour since 2015 | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
or the late 90s, the one thing those voters share is a rejection of the | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
so-called liberal consensus on EU membership and mass immigration. It | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
is difficult for any Labour lead eer co-bin or Clive Lewis on Dan Jarvis, | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
to bring those voters back unless they are going to move on that | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
cultural terrain. If they are not, they may not go to Ukip, they might | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
go to somewhere more difficult for Labour which is political apathy. | :12:58. | :12:59. | |
Thank you for that. Attention now shifts to the House | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
of Lords where peers will begin scrutinising the EU Withdrawal Bill | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
in just over a week. Brexit Secretary David Davis urged | :13:06. | :13:07. | |
the Lords "to do its patriotic duty" and resist the urge to tinker | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
with the legislation. Former minister Oliver Letwin | :13:11. | :13:12. | |
went one further - mooting the possibility | :13:13. | :13:14. | |
of the abolition of the Lords if it sought to frustrate | :13:15. | :13:16. | |
the bill in any way. Here he is posing the question | :13:17. | :13:18. | |
in the Commons on Thursday. Would he find time, in government | :13:19. | :13:26. | |
time for a debate, should the other place seek to delay beyond the end | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
of March the passage of our accession to Article 50, for this | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
House to discuss the possibility of either the abolition or full-scale | :13:34. | :13:35. | |
reform of the other place? And Oliver Letwin joins | :13:36. | :13:45. | |
me now from Dorset. Welcome back to the programme Mr Let | :13:46. | :13:58. | |
win. Before we come on to the Lord's, can I get your thoughts on a | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
matter that has been making the news this morning and John Bercow's | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
remarks about being a remain voter an giving something of a running | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
commentary on various Brexit issues, has he sqloefr stepped the mark as | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
speaker? -- overstepped the mark. I think this is slightly a fuss about | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
nothing. Every person who thinks about politics will have had some | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
opinion about great matters like Brexit, and I really don't see any | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
particular reason why his opinion shouldn't be known after the fact. | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
I, I was there throughout the five days of the Brexit debate, and I | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
have to say, I thought he was pretty scrupulously fair in the way he | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
handled the House, so, I, I don't really share the view that there is | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
some terrible thing that has been revealed this weekend. Let me come | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
on to what we are here to talk about, which is the Lords. Why have | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
you raised the threat of the abolition of the Lord for doing its | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
job of scrutinising what is coming out the Commons? Well, you know, | :15:05. | :15:13. | |
Andrew, this question of the job of the House of Lords and scrutiny, has | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
to be looked at carefully. There are all sorts of bills that come out the | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
House of Commons which are detailed things that relate to, finance, and | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
expenditure, and the criminal law, and all that sort of thing, and all | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
of that, I admire the work that the House of Lords does, as you say | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
scrutinising and we shouldn't use that word loosely, it means looking | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
carefully at the detail, line by line of complicated legislation, | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
hundreds of Paps in some cases, and spotting, using the considerable | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
expertise many, not all be many of the peers have, in any given field, | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
to identify things where the Commons has got it wrong in the sense that | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
the legislation wouldn't achieve what the Government of the day is | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
seeking to make it achieve. That is a serious proper role for an Upper | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
House and the House of Lords performs it pretty | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
Now this is a very different case. This is a two clause bill. The first | :16:12. | :16:22. | |
clause which is the operative clause says the Prime Minister should go | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
ahead and sign... I understand all that. We haven't got that much time, | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
this is becoming a monologue. There is nothing to scrutinise, Andrew. | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
There were plenty of amendments put before the Commons, none of them got | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
through, it is true. There are eight Labour amendments in the Lords, are | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
you resigned to this bill coming back to the Commons with amendments? | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
No, it should not come back with amendments. There were hundreds of | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
amendments literally put down in the House of Commons, they were all | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
drunk. They were all trying one way or another to derail the process. | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
This is a binary issue, should Theresa May sign the withdrawal or | :17:07. | :17:14. | |
not? What should the Commons do? The Commons has now voted in favour of | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
it. Node do should tolerate and unelected chamber forcing the | :17:20. | :17:28. | |
British people... The people voted in a referendum and the Commons | :17:29. | :17:31. | |
voted. The matter is now signed and sealed and should not be derailed by | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
the House of Lords. On Labour amendment wants confirmation that | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
when it is done, the potential Brexit agreement will be put before | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
parliament before any vote in the European Parliament, that has been | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
an agreed principle, what is wrong with that amendments? The government | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
has already agreed there will be a vote, but actually, what the | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
amendments were seeking was to give the Commons a further vote on | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
whether we actually leave or not. That is already decided. Neither the | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
House of Lords nor anybody else has a right in my view, despite the fact | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
I was a remain, to what the will of the British people. Nobody should | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
think an unelected chamber should now try to change the course of | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
British history by asserting amendments in a very effective on | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
clause bill which says go ahead and trigger Article 50. Are you | :18:28. | :18:29. | |
concerned that amendments by the Lords which would then have to go | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
back to the Commons for consideration, are you concerned | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
that could derail or delay the Prime Minister's timetable for Article 50? | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
Yes, exactly. That would be the result of a prolonged bout of | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
ping-pong between the two houses, or much worse, if the House of Lords | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
failed to give way and the Parliament act had to be used. It | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
would really be intolerable. It is not good for our country. Those of | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
us who voted remain would prefer for that not to happen. The whole | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
country -- it is important for the whole country that this happens in a | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
rapid way and allowing the government free rein to negotiate, | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
that is surely in all our advantages? Deed think any efforts | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
to abolish the House of Lords, an issue you have raised, does that | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
make it easier because your friend David Cameron stuffed the upper | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
chamber with donors, lapdogs and lingerie designers? I was among | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
those who advocated for many years wholesale reform of the House of | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
Lords, to turn it into a serious elected second chamber. I think we | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
should have an upper house which commands legitimacy. This is a | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
second issue. Here we have not got such a House and it seems to be very | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
clear that it should not seek to derail on delay the action which has | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
been mandated by the referendum, agreed by the House of Commons, and | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
what we want to see now is a smooth orderly effect for this bill, so it | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
becomes law and Theresa May can go ahead and negotiate on our behalf. | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
One more question on the process, if the Lords to amend the bill and it | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
goes back to the Commons and the Commons sends these amendments back | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
again, take them out, how long could this ping-pong between the two | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
chambers go on in your experience? It is a very, very interesting and | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
complicated question with the clerks of the two ends of the Palace of | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
Westminster not always agreeing about this. But through certain | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
machinations of slightly changing amendments as they go, in my | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
experience this could carry on for an awful long time if clever people, | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
and there are plenty of clever people in the House of Lords, want | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
to do that and that is precisely why I think we should not tolerate it. | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
Oliver Letwin, thank you for joining us from Dorset. | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
Joining me now is Labour's Leader in the House of Lords, Angela Smith. | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
The Commons passed this bill without any amendments... There were | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
changes, the government did concede a couple of points. But the | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
amendments did not go through. Does that put pressure on the Lords to do | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
the same? I think the Lords always feels under pressure to do the right | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
thing. When I heard Oliver Letwin, I did not know whether to laugh or | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
cry. We will not frustrate, we will not wreck, we will not sabotage. We | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
will do what David Davis said was our patriotic duty. We will | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
scrutinise the bill. We have at amendments from the Labour Party. We | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
will look at those. It depends on the government response if we vote | :21:48. | :21:50. | |
on those. There could be amendments asking the Commons to look again. | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
That is normally what we do. It is not the wrong thing to do. But if | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
you do this and make amendments, it then goes back to the Commons. If | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
the Commons rejects the Lords' amendments, what do you think will | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
happen? I do not see any extended ping-pong at all. It is perfectly | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
legitimate. We are not talking about the outcome of negotiations, we are | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
talking about the process. The process of engaging with Parliament | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
and reporting to Parliament. It would be totally responsible for | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
Parliament to say, off you go, Theresa May, have two years of | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
negotiation and come back and talk to us at the end. The has to be a | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
process where the government can use the expertise of parliament to get | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
this right. But if you do put in some amendments, it has to go back | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
to the Commons, they may well say they don't want those amendments and | :22:45. | :22:46. | |
it may go back to the Lords, could that at the very least delay the | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
Prime Minister's Brexit timetable? I don't think so. She said the end of | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
March. Time has been built in for all the normal processes. I think | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
Oliver Letwin and others are getting a bit overexcited. This is the | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
normal process. Unless the government get things right the | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
first time every time, the has to be this kind of process. These are | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
reasonable amendments. This is a Labour amendment we are talking | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
about here, you want a vote in the UK Parliament before any | :23:18. | :23:30. | |
vote in the European Parliament if and when the Brexit deal is done, | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
the Commons and the Lords get to vote on it first. But the government | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
I think have already agreed to that so what is the point? It needs to be | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
on the face of the bill. It is over well if the government have agreed | :23:42. | :23:43. | |
it. Lord dubs had an agreement about child and look what happened to | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
that. Does not sound as if you would go to the wire on that? It is | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
important it is not just about the vote at the end, you have the | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
ongoing engagement. If it is going to be a bad deal, we need to know | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
long before we get to that stage? Is it something you would hold out for? | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
I don't know yet. It is about how the House of Lords votes, Labour do | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
not have a majority, we never had a majority in the House of Lords when | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
we were in government. It is wrong to suggest that we cannot debate | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
these issues... I don't think anyone is suggesting that. They are. It is | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
not unfair to ask the government to ask the House of Commons to look | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
again to look at those issues if that is what the House of Lords | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
decides. Bit of the House of Commons says we looked, we are sticking with | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
what we voted for, we rejected every amendment by at least 30 votes on | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
all occasions, the Lords then have to buckle, is that what you are | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
saying? Some point I think it is clear the House of Commons have to | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
have its say. I think it is inconceivable that having had a | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
referendum, which was not overwhelming, but it was a clear | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
result, the House of Lords has no intention of sabotaging that but | :25:04. | :25:05. | |
there are things which are not good about the process that we think | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
could be improved. We have not just have the result of the referendum | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
which voted to leave, but we have had the will of the Commons that | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
passed this legislation by a majority of 372. And I am not | :25:20. | :25:26. | |
contesting that for a second! Could you cite a precedent for the upper | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
house amending a bill which passed by 372 votes in the Commons? Quite | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
other things will come to the House of Lords with big majorities from | :25:36. | :25:37. | |
the Commons and quite often the amendments we get, with that then | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
forward and the government sees it could do better. Though not | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
necessarily saying the government has got things wrong, but they could | :25:49. | :25:50. | |
do things better. That happens time and time again and it is not | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
unusual. If you were seen to thwart the referendum result and the vote | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
in the Commons, the elected chamber of parliament, is the threat of | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
abolition hanging over you? I think that is really ridiculous and | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
absolute nonsense. We are not tying to what the decision of the House of | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
Commons, we are trying to do better. It is a bit rich of the government | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
and Oliver Letwin to complain about getting things through in time when | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
the House of Commons spent -- the government spent three months trying | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
to debate this issue. There have been some strong questions put to | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
the government from the House of Lords on all sides. I don't know if | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
the amendments have been passed or not. I think we have a good case for | :26:34. | :26:42. | |
the government to get debate the point. If a traditional MP like | :26:43. | :26:49. | |
Oliver Letwin is calling for the abolition of the hereditary and | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
appointed chamber, and the Labour person like yourself was trying to | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
defend that, that would not be a sustainable position, I would | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
suggest! We saw this with the Strathclyde report as well, this is | :27:03. | :27:04. | |
a government like no other. It is the first Conservative government in | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
history not to have an automatic majority. They do not like challenge | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
or scrutiny. But you get my point, Labour cannot go to the wire in | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
defending and an elected second chamber, can it? Actually, Labour | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
can go to the wire in saying the government does not get it right | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
every time. House of Lords is going to normal processes and people like | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
Oliver Letwin are really getting a little bit over excited, and people | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
who have been anonymously briefing. Who has been anonymously briefing? I | :27:36. | :27:42. | |
don't know, they are anonymous! I understand people want to make | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
amendments, that is the role of the House of Lords, but can I just for | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
the avoidance of doubt, is it still your case that whatever amendments | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
to make, whatever may go back and forward, it is not your intention to | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
stop Article 50 being triggered by the end of March? I have been saying | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
that, exactly that for months and months and months. It is | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
inconceivable that an unelected House will thwart the will of the | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
House of Commons and a referendum on this issue. But that does not mean | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
we will be bullied by Oliver Letwin and others. But the triggering will | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
happen by the end of March? I very much suspect so unless Theresa May | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
has second thoughts, I suspect that will happen. Thank you. | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
Now, just because it's parliamentary recess next week | :28:29. | :28:29. | |
There are two by-elections round the corner - | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
one in Copeland, and another in Stoke-on-Trent Central | :28:34. | :28:35. | |
where the former Shadow Education Secretary, | :28:36. | :28:37. | |
Tristram Hunt, vacated his seat to take up a role | :28:38. | :28:39. | |
as Director of the Victoria Albert Museum in London. | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
But Labour are facing a fight to hold onto the constituency | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
Seconds away, Ukip's new leader has stepped into the ring | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
as their candidate in a by-election bout to see | :28:52. | :28:53. | |
At the last election Ukip came second to Labour here | :28:54. | :29:01. | |
But now they are confident they can land a knockout blow, | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
because this place is packed with people that voted to leave the EU. | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
70% of people voted to leave the European Union. | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
I'm the only candidate standing in this election | :29:16. | :29:23. | |
who is a true Brexiteer, who has always campaigned to leave | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
the EU and therefore I believe I would be the best person | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
But he has had to fight off allegations | :29:30. | :29:31. | |
he wasn't living in the constituency when he entered the contest. | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
Explain to me what is going on with this issue about your house? | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
Well, we took up the lease the day before nominations. | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
Everything we've done is perfectly legal and within the law. | :29:41. | :29:42. | |
The Labour Party are trying to get off the real issues in this election | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
and focus on something which is banal nonsense. | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
And there's been trouble as well for the Labour contender. | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
He's been labelled a Remoaner after he sent a series | :30:01. | :30:02. | |
of anti-Brexit tweets, filled with words | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
I can't believe I'm about to ask this question in a nursery | :30:06. | :30:16. | |
on a Sunday morning TV programme, but did you really tweet that | :30:17. | :30:18. | |
I tweeted many things about Brexit, that's tweet is out there. | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
It was done quite after the referendum result and it | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
was my way of showing my frustration at the fact that months | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
after the result we hadn't had anything from the government. | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
Theresa May had failed to produce any plan, | :30:35. | :30:36. | |
she had failed to give any meaningful statement | :30:37. | :30:38. | |
about what Brexit meant other than bland statements | :30:39. | :30:40. | |
about Brexit is Brexit, and it's a hard Brexit, or a soft Brexit. | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
The context of it was it was out of frustration. | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
So you didn't mean to insult the 70% of the people who live here | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
I never mean to insult anybody and you know, | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
I've made it quite clear, if I'm elected as the member | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
of Parliament for Stoke-on-Trent Central, I will absolutely respect | :30:57. | :30:58. | |
the wishes of the people of Stoke Central. | :30:59. | :31:00. | |
I will make sure my vote in parliament is to trigger Article 50. | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
While the Tories' man has done little bit of rebranding too. | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
I voted Remain and I've been open about that, but my top priority | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
is about the economy and to ensure we still have an | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
Theresa May has set out clear proposal to ensure we develop | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
a trade relationship with Europe and make that a success. | :31:17. | :31:26. | |
It means the Lib Dems and the Greens are the ones battling Brexit. | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
Well, when the Lib Dem candidate is actually here. | :31:31. | :31:32. | |
The candidate is a consultant cardiologist. | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
He is actually at work today doing very important heart surgery. | :31:39. | :31:40. | |
He will be back tomorrow, back on the campaign trail working hard. | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
30% of people voted to Remain and nobody else | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
is representing them, so, you know, it is still a live issue. | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
It is still something people care about. | :31:52. | :31:52. | |
We are only at the start of the Article 50 process | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
We are very a clear that we are standing up for those | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
who want to remain in the single market, who want to protect jobs | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
Labour have taken people for granted in this area for a great many years. | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
Ukip, I'm afraid, all Ukip can offer to politics is division. | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
I've covered a lot of by-elections where Ukip have come second. | :32:12. | :32:13. | |
We'll find out if they really got Labour on the ropes this | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
And here is a full list of all the candidates standing | :32:17. | :32:36. | |
in the Stoke-on-Trent Central by-election. | :32:37. | :32:47. | |
They do atract lots of candidates. You can get that on the BBC website | :32:48. | :32:56. | |
as well. I was trying to think back, here we have the main opposition | :32:57. | :33:04. | |
party defending two seats in by-elections in the midterm of a | :33:05. | :33:05. | |
government. All the speculation is where the | :33:06. | :33:13. | |
opposition party can hold on, that is unprecedented. I can't give of an | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
equivalent. You wouldn't just expect them to win seats they have held | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
traditionally, you would expect hem to make inroads into seats held by | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
the other party, I wonder if they fail to hold on to just one of | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
these, whether it accelerates the momentum and criticism of the | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
leadership of the moment. I think they are interesting constituencies. | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
Matthew good win was talking about the left win coalition over the | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
years, almost being too broad for its own good, including places like | :33:50. | :33:56. | |
Primrose Hill and Hackney. Big university towns in Manchester, | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
Bristol. Diverse ethnically and included places like Stoke which are | :34:01. | :34:10. | |
more Conservative. With a small c. Less economically well-off, more | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
diverse, can the left hang on to both bits of country. Recent | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
evidence suggests it cannot and the opportunity for Ukip is to pick up | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
the second of those two types of community, the Stokes and the cope | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
lands. That what makes the by-elections interest I would | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
suggest. It is not just about Mr Corbyn's future about which we hear | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
too much, it is about this traditional Labour coalition, can it | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
still survive, particularly in places like Stoke? Europe clearly is | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
a test. I think it's a myth by the way that Labour are only split now, | :34:44. | :34:51. | |
over Europe and it has always been a Tory problem, last time I was on I | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
mentioned it. That is why we had a referendum in 75. That is why they | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
had a round then. But they were in chaos behind the scenes over what | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
they thought about the euro, skillful leadership can paper over | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
the cracks, and to address the wider issue of whether we are now in an | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
era where left right issues have disappeared, and there is more of a | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
regional divide, if you take Europe out of the equation which you can't, | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
but if you were able to, issues about health, transport housing do | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
split more left-right than a regional divide, so I think there is | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
still fundamental left-right issues, but Europe isn't one of them and | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
Europe has to be managed by a Labour leader skill fully and evidently | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
that hasn't happened now. How would you see the by-elections in the | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
current political context? Labour should be walking them, it should be | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
a sign of the March of the Labour Party taking on the current | :35:57. | :35:58. | |
Conservative Government. I don't think they raise any questions about | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
Corbyn's leadership because the people who put him in don't think | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
that winning elections matter, you have to remember this will be the | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
mainstream media, it will be our fault why any of those Labour | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
candidates don't win, the thing that is interesting is whether there is | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
is a role for Ukip. The argument after the referendum was Ukip has | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
done its job, it got the referendum, nothing to see here, I remember | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
speaking to put a Nuttall before he was Ukip leader, on the day after | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
the battle and he said this is Year Zero, where Ukip starts now, and | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
this, and this is the interesting thing, does, do we see this one | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
particular party having a role in the future? And I think it is all to | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
play for, they could not not have stood in this seat. They have to win | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
it to be an electoral force. The Labour candidate in Copeland has | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
made the NHS the issue for her in this, that goes into the left-right, | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
are we spending enough, are we not? That will be a test of what you were | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
saying to see if traditional left-right issue, which at the | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
moment would play Labour's way I would suggest, are big enough to | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
overcome all the things you have been talking about and Matthew has | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
been talking about. Maybe at this particular junction they are not, | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
but I don't think any of those issues will go away, and that is why | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
I question whether we are see the end of a historic left-right divide. | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
At the moment with Europe so prominent, clearly these | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
by-elections are unusual. And they will be a test of leadership for | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
Theresa May in the coming months if not at the moment, as they have been | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
in a way that he hasn't risen to, for the Labour leader. | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
We will be leave on BBC One on the night, February 23rd off back of | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
this week, we will bring you the result of both these crucial | :37:51. | :37:52. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead. | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
First though, the Sunday Politics where you are. | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
On today's show: Dorset council leaders this week asked | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
the government to let them merge into two unitary authorities - | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
A third of the councils oppose the plan, so where's | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
First let's meet the two politicians who'll be with me | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
Louise Goldsmith is the Conservative leader | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
Paul Harvey is the leader of the Labour group on Basingstoke | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
Local government finance was back in the news this week. | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
When's it ever left it, you might ask? | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
First we had Surrey County Council abandoning its plans | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
for a referendum on a 15% council tax hike, amid allegations | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
of a "sweetheart deal" being offered by the government to stop | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
And then the think tank the Local Government Information Unit came out | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
with a survey of local councils' finances in which one in ten | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
believed they were in danger of failing to deliver core services. | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
Councils are allowed to place a 3% precept on council tax | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
Nine out of ten say it's not enough money, it won't make up the gap. | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
Councils will retain 100% of the new business rates, | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
half of councils tell us they will be worse off under | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
The things they do want to do, increased powers over charging, | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
ability to raise hotel taxes or other local taxes, | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
revaluation of council tax bands, these things are off | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
On that survey, Southern councils, fewer of them thought | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
they would lose out on retention of business rates | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
Surrey County Council, Louise, any discussions | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
with central government about retaining business rates? | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
Any memorandum of understanding, any deal? | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
I will not talk about Surrey County Council. | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
Your council tax people might ask why you haven't had a conversation. | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
We have been working hard all year on our budget, | :40:10. | :40:11. | |
we have had huge pressures on adult social care and children's social | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
care, we are meeting those and will be going to council | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
on Friday with a proposed increase of 3.95%. | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
Which is about a ?50 rise for band E properties. | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
It is asking people to pay more but then your costs are going up. | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
Our costs are going up, as again adult social care | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
We respect our residents, it is their money they are giving us | :40:41. | :40:47. | |
and they are having pressures, they will have an eight or 9% | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
increase in electricity and gas, an increase in car fuel | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
and with the low pound, that will mean more money | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
we are paying for our shopping and we are are aware of that. | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
We did a survey that said people would accept 3.75 so we have | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
We are a traditional Conservative council and live within our means. | :41:10. | :41:18. | |
Would you have asked for 15 in Basingstoke? | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
It shows about adult social care, if those are the pressures | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
councils are facing, it's the same in Hampshire, | :41:26. | :41:27. | |
?55 million cut coming in adult social care, | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
then why is it that Surrey gets offered a secret deal? | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
If that is how the government goes about its business it's shocking | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
The texts are there for everyone to see. | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
Sajid Javid said they are running a pilot on bringing forward | :41:47. | :41:56. | |
the business rate tax in 2018, people will be invited to join that. | :41:57. | :42:03. | |
It was clearly on the website, that was on offer. | :42:04. | :42:11. | |
If this is how the Conservative treat social care, whether a deal | :42:12. | :42:14. | |
This is a serious issue and needs to be treated properly. | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
We are aware of that, we had a big debate in the county council | :42:21. | :42:27. | |
in December across all parties, we need a real review | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
I have had a letter back from Sajid Javid looking at how | :42:33. | :42:40. | |
they can start working on that so there are things going | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
on but we have had a high increase in demographics, | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
a lot of pressures for us and that is being put on us | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
at a time when we are having to look at costs. | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
Are you going to lose votes over this? | :42:55. | :42:56. | |
I think people understand we are trying to do our best | :42:57. | :42:58. | |
and we will continue to deliver that. | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
We are investing in adult social care but we are looking at how | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
we deliver those social care services, how we deliver | :43:08. | :43:09. | |
and a lot of this work is long-term preventative work with partners. | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
But it doesn't bring the savings as quickly as we would like. | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
Reorganising adult social care, I understand that, we want to see | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
the NHS working alongside social care, but like in Hampshire, | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
where a 16% increase in some residential care, | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
that is a massive figure, ?100 a week some residents | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
are being asked to pay more because of cuts | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
A lot of the South-east, we have a strong economy getting | :43:36. | :43:43. | |
workers into work in social care, it's a great industry to work | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
in and we are encouraging recruitment but we have almost full | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
employment here and that puts extra pressures on, | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
so the South-east has some particular pressures which may not | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
be quite so strong in other parts of the country. | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
It sounds like a special case to be made to someone. | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
We will keep pressing because this cross-party, | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
You might remember a couple of weeks back we were talking | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
about the new supposedly fairer funding formula for schools. | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
Well, at PMQs this week several MPs brought up with the Prime Minister | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
the unfairness of it, as they saw it. | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
And a group of Oxfordshire schools were warning that with half | :44:27. | :44:28. | |
of the county's schools set to get less money, it could mean | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
bigger class sizes or cuts to teaching hours. | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
Joining me now from our Oxford studio is Catherine Darnton | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
of the Oxfordshire Secondary Schools Head Teachers Association. | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
You have got some schools doing better, some schools doing worse. | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
That's what happens when you sort out fairness. | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
Unfortunately Oxfordshire has been one of the worst funded local | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
authorities for many years, we have worked hard with our MPs | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
to campaign through the f40 group for an increase in funding | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
and I don't think it had crossed any of our minds until the proposals | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
were published in December that the county would see such | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
You weren't campaigning for fairer funding, just saying more money. | :45:16. | :45:24. | |
We were campaigning for fairer funding. | :45:25. | :45:26. | |
We were in the bottom quarter of authorities by funding. | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
The range in the country was roughly 4500 per pupil to 6500 per pupil, | :45:30. | :45:37. | |
so if we were in the bottom 40 we expected an equalisation | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
so all pupils would receive roughly ?5500 each, but obviously with some | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
weighting for pupils with deprivation and low prior | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
attainment and additional needs receiving more, | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
But on average in Oxfordshire, funding will increase, | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
you have eight schools losing, 27 gaining or no change, according | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
to the government's assessment, and three of those gained over 4% | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
Those numbers are for the secondary schools | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
Overall across the whole authority there are 130 | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
losers and 133 winners, but inflation is running at over | :46:22. | :46:29. | |
1.5%, pay rises are running at 1%, schools are being given the same | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
amount of money per pupil in flat cash terms since 2010 | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
and the National Audit Office said before Christmas that schools | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
are facing an 8% real terms cut between now and 2020, | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
so offering Oxford schools 1.5% more will hardly meet the cost pressures | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
of just one year and we have already had seven years of cost pressures | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
What are the consequences if you don't get the sort | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
We have understood the need for austerity and since 2010 every | :47:03. | :47:11. | |
year because of inflation and pay rises and increases | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
in pension contributions and National Insurance, | :47:16. | :47:17. | |
we have to provide the same education for less money, | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
so the 20% of school budgets which are not to do with staff costs | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
have been cut and cut and there is nothing more | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
We have cut resources and IT, we have cut maintenance of buildings | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
and are getting to the point where we can only cut people | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
and if you are going to have fewer teachers, the only way you can | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
manage is for there to be either larger classes | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
We don't carry any slack, even in a secondary school, | :47:49. | :47:57. | |
we carry about two thirds of the teacher slack to make | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
the timetable build, we have nothing else and that is why | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
you cannot ask us to cut any more without having a demonstrable impact | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
on students' education and a consequent fall in standards | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
and that is why it is so important to fight for Oxfordshire | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
because we don't want to be a locality where we cannot go | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
We have improved our schools well in the past few years | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
These are proposals at the moment to sort out funding, | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
you must be concerned that they will have to last | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
for a long time and unless you get it right now you will be stuck. | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
That's right, I think this is a once in my professional career | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
opportunity for this to be sorted out right and it wouldn't be | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
overstating it to say when I saw the proposals I was devastated. | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
It hadn't crossed my mind that Oxfordshire wouldn't be | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
substantially better funded to the tune of 8% or 10%, | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
It's very hard when a proposal has been published which tells schools | :49:02. | :49:08. | |
what they could expect under the new formula, to challenge that. | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
They want to bring it in in April 2018 but we say they must | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
The consultation closes on the 22nd of March | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
and it is crucial that governors, teachers, headteachers, | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
parents say this is not the model they want. | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
Paul Harvey, you were also looking for fairer funding | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
for rural schools in particular, so would you say the budget needs | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
Yes, that is the reality teachers are saying. | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
Even on this formula, on the increase that has | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
been put on the table, it doesn't meet their cost | :49:45. | :49:46. | |
Hampshire is looking at taking ?51 million off its education budget | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
That is talking about teachers being sacked, schools cutting | :49:52. | :49:58. | |
One of my local primary schools is facing ?100,000 | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
taken off its budget, a local secondary school is facing | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
?390,000 taken off its budget, that means teachers in classrooms | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
being made redundant and it is a huge issue | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
if you want to keep the quality of teaching, which we all | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
Louise, you campaigned for fairer funding. | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
We did campaign very heavily and joined the f40, | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
now we are campaigning to make sure it is fairer funding. | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
We are about 35% worse off and like many Shire counties have | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
similar issues to Oxford and I think we ought to have a Shire challenge | :50:39. | :50:41. | |
like the London challenge, but the point being made by our MPs | :50:42. | :50:48. | |
and teachers is that we want to go for the minimus, and that means | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
all schools have a basic cost, whatever it is to run a primary | :50:54. | :51:00. | |
or secondary school, the costs are pretty well the same | :51:01. | :51:03. | |
across the country, then you add on extra costs, | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
especially in an area with deprivation, that | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
would be a fairer way, a lot of MPs are backing that. | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
This consultation finishes on the 22nd of March so we have time | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
to lobby and put the case and I know our headteachers | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
I think this was a common theme across the Shire so hopefully | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
We will need more money on the table, we will have to. | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
Now, nine into two just won't go, say three of them. | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
OK, that sounds like gobbledegook, but it's all about the row brewing | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
over reorganising the nine Dorset councils into two larger | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
unitary authorities, thus cutting the number | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
of councillors and saving money, so it's claimed by those in favour. | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
Only problem is - three of the nine councils actually aren t in favour. | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
Our Dorset political reporter Tristan Pascoe takes up | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
The idea is to merge Dorset's nine councils and create | :52:02. | :52:11. | |
two new unitary authorities - and that's the basis of the bid sent | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
But not all of the nine partner councils support the plans - | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
so would it be democratic for the Secretary of State to ignore | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
those opponents and to impose it on the county anyway? | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
This is a very crude map of Dorset's current nine council areas, | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
with the economic powerhouse of Bournemouth and Poole | :52:34. | :52:36. | |
keen to merge with its neighbour Christchurch - | :52:37. | :52:38. | |
and the other five councils all lumped together | :52:39. | :52:40. | |
But recently, three small councils that butt up | :52:41. | :52:48. | |
against the conurbation, Purbeck, East Dorset | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
and Christchurch borough, voted no to being merged | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
Despite the opposition of those three councils to being merged, | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
the government has the final say and could foist the deal | :53:04. | :53:06. | |
on the whole of Dorset - meaning those councils | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
and councillors opposed could be merely tilting at windmills. | :53:11. | :53:16. | |
And there has been considerable opposition. | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
Cheers greeted the merger plans being rejected by Christchurch | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
councillors and that may yet influence | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
I don't see the Secretary of State imposing a decision | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
against the will of three democratically elected councillors. | :53:33. | :53:35. | |
He says he'll do all he can to thwart the plans. | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
People want to keep control over their destiny. | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
Bournemouth and Poole could join together and meanwhile | :53:46. | :53:47. | |
we would have a combined authority which could deliver a strong | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
Several schemes to devolve powers from Westminster to councils | :53:53. | :53:59. | |
across the country have hit the buffers recently. | :54:00. | :54:01. | |
Not least because the government appears to be fed up with councils | :54:02. | :54:03. | |
and councillors unable to agree a deal between themselves. | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
In Purbeck the council vote on the mergers was split 11-11. | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
The plans rejected by the casting vote. | :54:13. | :54:15. | |
A consultation showed support from more than 60% of Purbeck | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
However, I couldn't find any on the beach. | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
I don't think we'll be represented, Poole and bigger councils will get | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
everything and we won't get anything done here. | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
I don't know the benefits, I can't see what they are. | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
I'm sure it will save money but at what cost to people? | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
The challenges that will be met by councils somewhere | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
like Weymouth will be different, I would imagine, | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
Economically it's a good idea, over the long term | :54:49. | :54:56. | |
it will save a lot of money, council money and buildings, | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
but democratically it will cause a deficit. | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
There will be less councillors so less representation | :55:06. | :55:07. | |
of the people, perhaps less diversity within the county | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
council and people will be less represented. | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
What will it do for the political map of Dorset? | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
It's likely to be a Conservative stranglehold, I'm not necessarily | :55:22. | :55:29. | |
saying that's a terrible thing but it also freezes out | :55:30. | :55:32. | |
But the man who may well end up leading the new Shire unitary | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
This is not rocket science, it works well in Cornwall | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
and Wiltshire, it is not a ground-breaking proposal. | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
We are following the lead of some well-run authorities | :55:44. | :55:45. | |
across the county in being as efficient as we can be. | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
Given that three of the six district councils, a third of Dorset | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
council have voted no, doesn't this make a mockery | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
One of them was very narrow, it's right they should weigh these | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
things up but I think we have to look at the bigger picture. | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
Nine councils cannot be the best arrangement of delivering | :56:05. | :56:07. | |
public service in a county the size of Dorset. | :56:08. | :56:10. | |
Ultimately the final decision rests with the Secretary | :56:11. | :56:18. | |
of State for Communities and Local Government, | :56:19. | :56:20. | |
and if he says yes, there is a group of concerned residents ready | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
to press go on a Judicial Review - and even calls from Greens, | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
Lib Dems and Ukip councillors for a referendum to give | :56:28. | :56:29. | |
the residents the final say on a decision that affects every | :56:30. | :56:31. | |
single council tax payer in the county. | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
It's the great hope for saving money. | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
Somehow you can be more efficient with mergers or combined | :56:43. | :56:44. | |
You think Sajid Javid will think he cannot make an omelette | :56:45. | :56:50. | |
without breaking a few eggs and force it on them? | :56:51. | :56:52. | |
I wouldn't know what he will be thinking but some of these councils | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
are small, as finances get tight they will have to look | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
We have a great model in West Sussex, they share costs, that is | :56:59. | :57:08. | |
But there will always be somebody opposed to something like this. | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
It would set a precedent if Dorset said enough of you are in favour | :57:14. | :57:25. | |
the protest will have to go by the board. | :57:26. | :57:27. | |
I think people are very sensitive to their place, | :57:28. | :57:29. | |
their identity and if that can be protected and they have | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
the reassurance of that, I think that would go a long way | :57:33. | :57:35. | |
And at the moment it's rejected, are you saying come up | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
with your own solution but it's not a veto. | :57:41. | :57:42. | |
You need to take people with you on this. | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
The point of being a councillor is you are accountable | :57:46. | :57:47. | |
to your community and in Hampshire it's difficult when Wiltshire | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
is so remote from Basingstoke, we see decisions being taken miles | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
away that affect our residents and we want to make those decisions. | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
But when it comes to issues like social care and education, | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
those decisions do affect local communities. | :58:09. | :58:16. | |
Hampshire are consulting now on closing one of our local | :58:17. | :58:18. | |
secondary schools, that's being taken by a councillor | :58:19. | :58:20. | |
from Gosport, so he will decide on a local school in Basingstoke | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
and that is out of touch with residents who care | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
So you want smaller sizes, not bigger sizes like people in Dorset. | :58:28. | :58:35. | |
I am a passionate believer in unitary authorities where weak share | :58:36. | :58:37. | |
Paul makes a point that sometimes it takes time to do consultation, | :58:38. | :58:45. | |
if you look at Manchester that got it right with the associations | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
Going slowly, having good conversations is the way | :58:49. | :59:00. | |
Now our regular round-up of the political week | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
Arrests in Portsmouth broadcast live on Facebook. | :59:06. | :59:18. | |
Can you see what's happening right now? | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
Protesters have been trying to prevent the City Council taking | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
control of an arts centre in Victoria Park. | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
Thames Valley and Hampshire Police are to use spit hoods | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
despite opposition from human right organisations. | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
When they stop spitting, the spit guard will be removed. | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
Teachers are using body cameras in the classroom. | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
Getting a child to look at their behaviour. | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
I have a camera on my car, it's the same principle. | :59:49. | :59:55. | |
But they're reducing technology with raw milk straight | :59:56. | :59:57. | |
from the cow at Northville farm dairy in Buckinghamshire. | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
From the shack to the shed, men's shed project near Andover | :00:02. | :00:09. | |
offering man the working environment they might miss when they retire. | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
Because they haven't anything else better to do. | :00:13. | :00:18. | |
Absolutely not, that is why men's sheds, all but community | :00:19. | :00:28. | |
where people can get together, we learn a lot from each | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
other and that is a great side of human beings. | :00:32. | :00:33. | |
The two things that scare me, Donald Trump's tweets, | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
Politics, shaking hands, meeting people, talking about their issues, | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
engaging face-to-face, that is where real politics is done. | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
That's been Sunday Politics in the South. | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
Thanks to my guests, Louise Goldsmith and Paul Harvey. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
We're off next week for half term but back in a fortnight | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
For now, though, it's back to Andrew. | :00:56. | :01:03. | |
After the excitement and late nights in the Commons last week, | :01:04. | :01:14. | |
MPs are having a little break this week as we head into | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
But there's still plenty in the diary in the near future - | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
let's just remind ourselves of some key upcoming dates. | :01:22. | :01:28. | |
There they are. We have the two by-elections on February 23rd. The | :01:29. | :01:38. | |
budget is 8th March. That will be the last spring budget under this | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
Government because it moves to the autumn. | :01:42. | :01:56. | |
That round of French elections narrows the candidates, probably | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
about eight or nine, down to two, the two who come first and second, | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
then go into a play off round on May 7th. That will determine the next | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
President. Steve, listening to Oliver Letwin and to the Labour | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
leader in the House of Lords, is there any way you think that end of | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
March deadline for Mrs May could be in jeopardy? No, I don't. Andrew | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
Smith couldn't have been clearer with you they would do nothing to | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
block not just Article 50 but that timetable, so I would be surprised | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
if they don't make it. Given her, Theresa May's explicit determination | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
to do so, not to do so would have become a problem for her, I think | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
one way or another... No before this vote last week there was a vote nor | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
the deadline, to agree the deadline by all sides. Plain sailing do you | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
think? There is no serious Parliamentary resistance and it | :02:59. | :03:00. | |
would be a personal embarrassment, I think for the Prime Minister to name | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
the the end of March as the deadline and to miss it, unless she has a | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
good excuse. I I reckon it will change the atmosphere of politics | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
for the next two years, as soon as the negotiations begin, people in | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
our profession will hunt for any detail and inside information we can | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
find, thing also be leaked, I think from the European side from time to | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
time, it will dominate the headlines for a solid two years and change | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
politics. Let me just raise a possible, a dark cloud. No bigger | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
than man's hand, that can complicate the timetable, because the Royal | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
Assent on the current timetable has to come round the 13th. I would | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
suggest that the Prime Minister can't trigger that until she does | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
get the Royal Assent. If there is a bit of ping-pong that could delay | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
that by receive day, the last thing the Europeans would want, they have | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
another big meeting at the end of March which is the 60th anniversary | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
of the Treaty of Rome. They don't want Article 50 to land on the | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
table... It would infuriate everybody. My guess is she will have | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
done it by then, this is between the Commons and the Lords, I mean Andrew | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
Smith couldn't have been clearer, that they might send something back | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
but they didn't expect a kind of a long play over this, so. The Liberal | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
Democrats, they are almost an irrelevance in the Commons but not | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
the Lords, they feel differently. Now, we don't know yet what the | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
European Union negotiating position is going to be, we don't know | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
because there are several crucial elections taking place, the Dutch | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
taking place in March and then the one we put up, the French, and, at | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
the moment, the French one is, it seems like it is coming down, to a | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
play-off in the second round between Madame Le Pen who could come first | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
in the first round and this Blairite figure, independent, centre-leftish | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
Mr Macron, he may well get through and that, and the outcome of that | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
will be an important determine napt on our negotiations. -- determinant. | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
You o couldn't have two more different candidate, you have a | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
national a front candidate and on the other hand the closest thing | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
France could have you to a liberal President. With a small l. A | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
reformist liberal President. It would be the most French thing in | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
the world to elect someone who while the rest of the world is elected | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
elitist, to elect someone who is the son of a teacher, who has liberal | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
views, is a member of the French elite. It would be a thing for them | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
to elect a man like that which I why I see them doing it. If it is Le | :06:02. | :06:09. | |
Pen, Brexit becomes a minor sideshow, if it is Le Pen, the | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
future of the European Union is? Danger, regardless of whether we are | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
were in or out. I suggest if it is Mr Macron that presents some | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
problems. He doesn't have his own party. He won't have a majority in | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
the French assembly, he is untried and untested. He wants to do a | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
number of things that will be unpopular which is why a number of | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
people close to Mrs Le Pen tell me that she has her eye on 2022. She | :06:40. | :06:47. | |
thinks lit go to hell in a hand basket under Mr Macron. He hasn't | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
got the experience. What I find fascinating. It is not just all to | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
play for in France, it is the fact what happens in France and Germany, | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
not so much Holland I think but Germany later on in the year, how | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
much it impacts what we are going to get. How much which ex #i78 panting | :07:09. | :07:22. | |
on them. And at the time we are trying to, withdrawing ourself from | :07:23. | :07:24. | |
European politics it is fascinating how much it will affect us. You see | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
what Matthew was talking about earlier in the show, that what we do | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
know, almost for sure, is that the socialist candidate will not get | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
through to the second round. He could come firth but the | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
centre-right candidate. If we were discussing that monthing a we would | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
say it between teen the centre-right and the national fronts. We are to | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
saying that. Matthew good win who spent a time in France isn't sure Le | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
Pen will get into the second round, which is interesting. It is, I mean, | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
it is going to be as important for the future of the European Union, as | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
in retrospect the British 2015 general election was, if Labour had | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
got in there would have been no referendum. That referendum has | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
transformed the European Union because we are leaving and the | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
French election is significant. We will be live from Paris on April | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
23rd on the day France goings to the first round of polls. Tom Watson, he | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
was on The Andrew Marr Show earlier today, was asked about Mr Corbyn, | :08:32. | :08:32. | |
this is what he had to say. We had a damaging second leadership | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
election, so we've got The polls aren't great for us, | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
but I'm determined now we've got the leadership settled for this | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
parliament, that we can focus on developing a very positive clear | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
message to the British people So Julia, I don't know who are you | :08:48. | :09:03. | |
are giggling. I find it untenable that, he is a very good media | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
performer and he comes on and he is sitting there so well, you know, | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
things are bad but don't worry we are looking at what we can do to win | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
2020. The idea that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were sitting in their | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
offices or on TV screens at this time in the electoral cycle thinking | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
well I wonder if we can come up with a policy the British people might | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
like. It is a nonsense, this is Tuesday night book zlufb. I am going | :09:32. | :09:39. | |
to ask you the question I was going to before. I would suggest that he | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
the right. The deputy Labour leader Tom Watson is violent the leadership | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
is settled, with one caveat, unless the Corbynistas themselves to decide | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
to move on Mr Corbyn, if the left of the Labour Party decides then it is | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
not settled. Settled. If that doesn't happen that is That would be | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
the worst situation if you are a Labour moderate. The Corbynistas | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
would be saying the problem is no Corbynism, it is Corbyn himself, if | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
we a younger person leading the process we can win the next general | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
election, which means you have another itration of this, another | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
five year experiment. And that is worst of all. If you are a Labour | :10:27. | :10:34. | |
moderate, what you want is Jeremy Corbyn contest the next general | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
election, possibly loses badly and then a Labour not moderate runs for | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
the leadership saying we have tried your way, the worst would be Corbyn | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
going, and a younger seven version of him trying and the experiment | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
being extended. I see no easy way out of this. That is why he radiated | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
the enthusiasm of someone in a hostage video in that interview. | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
Maybe he has the Stockholm Syndrome now. The Labour moderates have had | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
their day in the sun, two days in the sun and they lost. I suggest | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
they are not going to try for the hat-trick again. Is there any | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
indication that on the more Corbyn wing of the Labour Party, there is | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
now doubts about their man. Yes, just to translate Tom Watson, what | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
he meant was I Tom Watson am not going to get involved in another | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
attempted coup. I tried it and it was a catastrophe. That is question | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
enhe says it is set selled. It is because there is speculation on a | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
daily basis. I disagree, Julia said I think this lot don't care about | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
winning, I think they do. If the current position continue, one of | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
two things will happen. Either Jeremy Corbyn will decide himself | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
will decide he doesn't want to carry on. He half enjoys I it and half | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
hates it. Finds it a strain. If that doesn't happen there will be some | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
people round him who will say, look, this isn't working. There is another | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
three-and-a-half years. There is a long way to go. I can't see it | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
lasting in this way with politics in a state of flux, Tories will be | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
under pressure in the coming two years, to have opinion polls at this | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
level, I think is unsustainable. Final thought from you.? Yes, the | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
idea it St another three-and-a-half years is just madness, but the | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
people we are putting up at replacement for Jeremy Corbyn, and | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
they have been focus grouping them. Most members wouldn't know who most | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
of people were let alone most of the public. | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
Angela rain? They are not overwhelmed with leadership | :12:56. | :13:02. | |
potential at the moment. Very diplomatically put. Neither are the | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
Tories, but they happened to have one at the moment. All right. That | :13:07. | :13:08. | |
is it. Now, there's no Daily | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
or Sunday Politics for the next week But the Daily Politics will be back | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
on Monday 20th February and I'll be back here with the Sunday Politics | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
on the 26th. Remember if it's Sunday, | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
it's the Sunday Politics... Just back from | :13:23. | :14:02. | |
a very long shift at work... | :14:03. | :14:05. |