24/06/2012 Sunday Politics Wales

Welcome to the Sunday politics. The eurozone stares into the best and

we talk to Danny Alexander, a -- be a best. David Cameron and his

Argentinian counterpart went head- to-head over the Falklands this

week. And our political panel of the best and brightest here every

week to analyse British politics in the week ahead, talking about the

Jimmy Carr tax return. And in Wales, we question whether the vulnerable

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1823 seconds

and elderly should be treated as Why would you want to give it up

now when it looks like there might be or oil revenues to be lost?

Because we might need to give it up in totality later. The growing

power of countries like Venezuela we should have good relations with

them. Let us share the oil and gas in the Falklands, save ourselves

the money and not have to send an aircraft carrier and lose more men.

But we have not got one to send! What he is seeing is that Latin

America is full of emerging economies. It is part of the 21st

century. We have good relations with Latin America then we just do

not talk to Argentina. We do have relations with Latin America. They

exist. Argentina is not all that popular with in Latin America. I

quite like disagreeing with George Galloway. My point is this. The

South Americans are not, just as George has presented, some of them

are very much on side. You said Brazil was onside. Brazil is 100%

behind Argentina's claim. Brazil is saying we should be friends

increasingly. But we are not. is politics. We are not having a

battle here. We do not want to have a battle. We just want Argentina to

back off. Argentina is in trouble. They have not got the military

means to do anyone. I do not think you are in trouble just because you

take your own or oil resources back from the Spanish. The Argentines

are within their own right to take their oil company but Argentina has

and nationalist oil company, you are right. There flag is flying at

half mast because of this issue. They simply cannot resist the call

for the liberation from European colonial rule of a piece of what

they consider to be there motherland. The Argentine ants --

the Argentinians cannot takeover land which is an have dictated by

people who think they are British. You are watching the Sunday

Politics. Coming up in 20 minutes I will be looking at the week ahead

with our political panel. Now the Sunday Politics across the UK. A

low, on the Sunday Politics Wales, public versus private is a debate

which gets the blood of many boiling. When it comes to elderly

care, should it matter who owns the homes where some of our elderly

relative reside? Today we hear concerns about the low number of

female councillors elected last month and joining me today are two

MPs. In the news today, a suggestion by David Cameron that a

future Conservative Government would scrap housing benefit for

those under 25. The moral compass of the Lib Dems does not often. In

the same direction as the Conservatives. Are you in on this

together? Absolutely not. He is speaking as the leader of the

Conservative Party. He is perfectly entitled to do that and to his own

view. We as Lib Dems will be putting forward before the next

election what we would be proposing and suggesting that this is not one

be particularly agree with. argument is that living on benefits

is better than going to work. Lots of people would agree with that.

think we are looking at it from the wrong direction. The benefits

system is dependent on the tax system. David Cameron should be

making sure people pay the right kind of tax on their earnings. It

is not just good enough to say it is immoral to avoid tax but they

have to get rid of the loophole to stop people avoiding it. An inquiry

into residential care for older people questions whether looking

after the vulnerable should be treated as a commodity to be traded.

A private equity firm Nears completion of a multi-million pound

takeover of private care homes including some in Wales. Our

reporter has more. A greater variety of accommodation is

developing to cope with the needs of an ageing population. Residents

at this housing association scheme have their own apartments and front

doors but with shared facilities including a restaurant, shop and

here -- here salon. We want them to have a home for life. We can

deliver final stages of care for them and that is what they will do.

We do not get off at the door when things get tricky. This is

someone's Home, the live here and we empower them and bring in the

necessary partnerships and services into their home to allow them to

stay there. As well as investigating not for profit homes,

the new inquiry is looking at local authority establishments than those

run by private operators. It is this private provision which has

been making headlines since the Southern Cross collapse last year.

They bought here homes, so all the properties on to private landlords

and leased them back relying on resident's fees to cover rents.

Seven of the firm's homes were in Wales. They were transferred to

Four seasons health care, a company struggling with debt. Now a private

equity group is in the process of taking that over. The deal is worth

�825 million. Politicians have concerns. Last month Labour

reported on the takeover to the First Minister. A tax exile and

private equity baron, best known for his disastrous takeover of e m

I e, is now poised to snap up Britain's largest care home gene.

The chairman of the latest company admits it overpaid for the music

company. Their residential care inquiry questioned the company

about its current acquisition of the health care business. Does this

mean the structure of the company will be changed? The inspectors

said they could not follow the trail of debt beyond the Channel

Islands and the Cayman Islands. investment is being put together

and agreed and these structures are being put in place. Obviously when

it was determined and fixed more discussion could be had about that.

Certainly be will be... But you evidence says it will be

transparent. Yes, I was just about to make that point. We absolutely

are committed to those principles of transparency. The cheer of the

inquiry insists there is no suggestion that private provision

of residential care services is a bad thing. We do ask the

fundamental question as to whether or not hear of older people is

simply as a commodity to be traded like anything else. When we saw

this company the said they were involved in essential businesses,

their idea of that includes cinemas, motorway service stations and

residential care homes for older people. There are others who do not

think that what you can buy at a garden centre and what you need to

look after frail and vulnerable older people is the same sort of

practice. We want to see a much more clear line of accountability

and an obvious way in which money is being used and value for money

is being delivered. We all consume things and what we want is a good

deal between be people who are providing a service and what we are

getting. The issue with care homes is that these people are not

empowered consumers, they are very vulnerable people are who often

need support. We do have a very important role in protecting those

interests. They say they are providing bass sustainable

structure in the healthcare business. They are working with

health care the authorities to deliver the highest possible care

for residents. The onus on businesses seeking profit from here

for vulnerable people have to demonstrate that lessons have been

learned. The Community Care Act of 1990 allowed local authorities to

farm out care homes to any willing provider, do you think that was at

mistake? I do. I think there has been -- developed an imbalance in

services. Even for a day here which is mainly in the hands of private

providers which means there is a problem in terms of continuity and

standards. I would far rather see that provision within the public

sector. Many saw there was an ageing population and a chance to

make a long-term profit. Do you think that Southern Cross is an

example of the bubble having burst? I do not think we have seen the end

of private provision in this area. I do not necessarily agree that we

ought to have it only provided within the public sector. People

have different needs and we need diversity in the markets so that

people can choose what suits them. Some people want to live in flats

with supported provision while others need far more supported and

detailed care. We need a range of different people putting money into

that to make sure we get that variety. One of the things that is

absolutely key is that it has to be properly regulated and monitored.

The concern is not necessarily where the money comes from but what

is done with that money. If fees are going up and up and care is not

good enough then that is what we need to be concerned about. It can

be a good thing because standards can be raised and costs can be

reduced, can't the same be true when hearing for the elderly?

can be true but my concern is the imbalance at the moment. As it

happens, my mother is in a private residential home and I am very

happy with the care she is receiving. The actual process of

ensuring she was placed there was a very difficult one. I went through

it. When you are placing at relative from their own home into a

residential nursing home the division is not necessarily clear.

Why is it that we have not got every care home run by local

authorities? There must be a barrier for them to invest in such

homes. The are finding it less expensive to farm it out to the

private sector. That does not mean that the provision is safeguarded.

If that imbalance has come into the system where more is coming out of

the private sector. Private sectors are ultimately interested in profit.

That is the nature of their business. The nature of their

business is not primarily always be care of the elderly. The point was

made that the company mentioned invest in garden centres while

local authorities run leisure centres sort it does not say they

are accountable. But they are public accountable. The private

sector is not accountable in the same way. The public can always

remove their relative from private providers. You do see that. Care

homes do go bust because they are not providing the quality of care

that people want their relatives to have. We have to make sure we know

what is going on in homes so that the choice can be properly

exercised. The UK coalition Government wants to see greater

involvement from the private sector and the NHS. Do you think the

Southern Cross collapse is part of the market? There are two issues.

Back at the end of 2008/2007 people were doing foolish things in how

they financed such organisations. It happened across the call of the

economy and across different sectors. We will see what some of

the committee says when it produces its report. Last month Welsh voters

were at the polls electing councillors but it seems we have a

gender divide in Government. Just over one quarter of those elected

were women. It has gone up 2% since four years ago. But it is a

miserable showing for women in Wales. Traditionally councils here

have been filled by men and it may be that women do not see it as a

place where they belong. We have to get rid of some of the

misconceptions of what councils are like and the work they do. The work

is vital, education, social services, all things close to

people's carts, especially women. It may be that at some point we

have to legislate to improve this. It maybe we have not tried other

things yet like all women shortlists. All the parties, or

only Labour have used it. It seems radical that in the future we might

have to legislate, would you be in favour of that? I do not think I

would be. There is more we have to do first. I used to be a counsellor.

I was young and female both of which put me in the minority. We do

have an issue with not having a variety of people on our council.

They tend to be men, often older and often retired. We need a

variety of people which reflect the people they are representing.

pale and steel we have heard is the case. -- Male, pale and stale.

think the National Assembly for Wales does not extend that. I hope

we have made a difference to life in Wales, I hope that will have a

reflection on the councils and Westminster in future. The way we

elect members is that for the most part we still have elderly men in

these positions. We need a variety to reflect society and ensure that

the kind of services offered her those needed in society.

devolution we also make comparisons with Scotland. In Scotland the

national executive have a target that within eight years they have

parity in terms of councillors which are being put up for

elections and the SNP has set up a woman's Academy. Out goes the kind

of stamps short of education you would like to see here in Wales?

would like to see campaigns like that. In the Lib Dems we have

gender balance which identify his women and minority groups and

encourage them to stand. In some cases there is financial assistance

because that is of been an issue as well. Is it you're experience that

we see a lot of male politicians being elected because there is a

lot of male dominance? That is not the case in my own area, in

Carmarthenshire. In terms of candidates we are still turning

Canale two men and older men to be representatives. In terms of

councils it is maybe these men who are in the best financial position

to take up these posts quite often. Women are working and are unable to

get the time away from work whereas men are in positions which offer

them more flexibility. We have to look at those and insure we can get

more women elected, more younger people are elected and we have

councils and assemblies and a Parliament which reflects society

generally. OK. There are some contentious political goings-on in

the last week. Here is a look back in 60 seconds. The Peers, a Labour,

a Lib Dem and at Plaid Cymru said more AM's were needed for the

Assembly to do their job properly. The said the current 60 BM's did

not allow for a proper scrutiny of legislation. -- AMs. It was said

Michael Gove was considering turning to all levels style exams

in England but the Welsh Government have said they will not do that a

though a review is under way. There was criticism of the First Minister

after he said Trident nuclear submarines would be welcome in

Milford Haven if Scottish independence means they leave

Faslane. A funding gap of �230 million was reported by the end of

the financial year in the NHS. We would welcome nuclear submarines to

Milford Haven, think of the jobs. was appalled by the First

Minister's response to this. It was a very flippant statement. It made

him look silly and made the post of First Minister look silly. Anyone

who knows Milford Haven knows there are problems with that. In 1963

there was talk of it being a nuclear base but there is one oil

refinery at that time and it would have had to close. Look at the

situation now. Has he spoken to the owners of the oil refineries? No he

has not! Is it about Milford Haven in particular or nuclear submarines

coming here. I remember some colleagues tucking about nuclear

energy. Let's not have nuclear submarines here? We do not have a

policy on that but we are certainly closed to nuclear weapons and

always have been. Some of Carwyn Jones's colleagues are. Did he

discuss it with Cabinet colleagues? I do not think he did. He made a

very stupid statement and refused to retract it. He was still being

flippant when I questioned him on it on Wednesday. Do you see any

merit in this? I guess it depends on whether you look at the jobs but

I do woman with the sentiment it would be difficult to have nuclear

weapons in the same area as you have large oil refineries. It was a

little foolish the statement and personally I am not in favour of

replacing Trident. I think it is a waste of public money. I think we

could be putting that money in to better things. Such as? Looking at

other ways in which hour armed forces operate and the other

weapons and equipment that the armed forces need. Then maybe look

at possibly creating some of those jobs in Wales. OK. We must leave it