07/10/2012 Sunday Politics Wales

$:/STARTFEED. Later in the programme: As the Conservatives

gather for their Spring Conference in Birmingham, we'll hear from

Andrew RT Davies - the party's leader in the National Assembly for

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2130 seconds

Hello. And, on the Sunday Politics Wales: We're drawing to the end of

conference season. It is the Conservatives' turn this week in

Birmingham. We'll hear from Andrew RT Davies - the party's leader in

the National Assembly. And, as unions campaign for the so-called

living wage for council workers, is it affordable at a time of spending

cuts? Joining me today are the Conservative AM, David Melding, and

the Labour AM, Julie Morgan. Weir began last week's programme with

looking ahead to the draft budget. I suppose now of the discussion

starts between your party - Labour - and the other parties to get an

agreement. Where would you like to see this agreement? We are open to

discussion with two of the other parties, I think. Not David's

party! We will be in discussion with David's party. There will be a

lot of the things and the Budget we will be in agreement on. I spoke to

Plaid Cymru on Wednesday after it was announced the start they focus

on finding jobs for young people. The Liberal Democrats focus on

underprivileged students. Do you have any preference? Would you like

to see one favoured over the other questions up obviously, we would

like both. We will have to work out what is the best one to get through.

It has very important things in it. We're helping the most deprived

young children. I'm sure all parties will want to support that.

It seems that the party has been sidelined. What can you add to this

budget discussion? Labour/Conservative combination is

not normal politics. We would concentrate on health. We're using

our presence in the assembly chamber to emphasise how much we

need to spend on health, above what is in the Budget. Especially at the

time of great structural change in Wales. That is our focus at the

moment. We will leave it there for now. Another conference Sunday and

another conference interview for our correspondent, David Cornock,

today in Birmingham. He's been talking to the Conservative

Assembly leader, Andrew RT Davies. Hello from Birmingham where the

Conservatives meet. They find themselves behind in the polls. It

could be a tricky conference for David Cameron. Led South -- let's

find out more from Andrew RT Davies. We have had the budget was dubbed

the various tax initiatives that went wrong. We had the fiasco over

the West Coast main land -- main line. You have a chief whip who

swears at police officers. How do you think the Government is doing?

You have painted a bleak picture. What we have had is a massive

inward investment programme for the investigation of the Great Western

line to Swansea. �2 million worth of investment will come from that.

We have falling inflation and falling unemployment. The

indicators in some of the green shoots we require, after the

devastation left by the last Labour government are there. We're putting

in solid foundations to make sure the economy grows. The economy was

growing when the Conservatives came to power. Now it is in recession.

We have had massive inward investor -- investment. It has not happened

yet. It is a very positive sign. We have falling unemployment and

falling inflation. That is supported by a record low interest

rates, which is a prerequisite for businesses to invest so they can

borrow at attractive rates. Households are having their

mortgages kept down. A do not underestimate the challenges.

Ultimately there are positives out there. As a party, what we must do

is be positive in our outlook and gave -- engage with the public.

know that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister have both said there

will have to be more spending cuts in future. When David Cameron and

George Osborne ring you are asking for advice, what will you tell them

question but it is about getting the economy growing. -- what will

you tell them? What I Lukacs as leader of the West Conservatives in

the National Assembly is the abject failure to deliver any economic

strategy within the Welsh Assembly. Forgive me, the question is about

cuts. We are building an economy that is starting to show the green

shoots of gross. We will have higher tax receipts and up or pay

for public services. From my perspective, we have a worse

government that is buoyed have any ideas regarding the economy and

Enterprise -- enterprise. Only in the Third World Kenya have that

ideology in the ministry that is supposed to be growing the economy.

-- Kang you have. What about all these benefits that go to wealthy

pensioners? Why should David Jones, Secretary of State for Wales, get

help with his winter fuel bills? Why should someone with access to a

shaver get a free bus pass? That is what the Welsh Conservatives had

been championing. -- a chauffeur. We think that 40% tax payer should

pay a modest contribution to this - - to their prescriptions. That

would free up �35 million to pay for key services, like cancer

services and investment in hospices, to help the bar rubble in society.

That is where Welsh Labour is subsidising the wealthiest. That is

not social justice. We will never do that. The Prime Minister has

your confidence. Do you have the confidence of the ams in your team?

On your initiative to rebrand the National Assembly Welsh parliament

commit you did not consult them first? I have the complete

confidence of my members. The rebranding of the Welsh Assembly

and a Welsh parliament means the general public will understand but

the parliament does and the executive does. Parliament raise

tax, don't they question but that would help in people's

understanding of where responsibility lies. -- don't they?

We have an executive because of the Government of Wales. The need to

have a Welsh parliament. We will continue to have that discussion.

We are holding there were as government to account. Enjoy your

week. -- the Welsh government. What do my guests make of that? A robust

defence of UK government policy and the work being carried out by the

group you are a member of. I think so. There is quite a lot we can do

in the Assembly and the worst government can do. The broad

parameters, the major economic decisions, are taken at UK level. -

- the Welsh government. We have been asked to co-operate as best as

possible so we can get the best policies for Wales. As one might

expect from David, an all- encompassing answer, reaching out

to other parties. Andrew RT Davies, not quite as kind to your party.

Boyd have any ideas on the economy, subsidising wealthy individuals. --

for aid of any ideas. It is a bit like a record. The major economic

decisions have failed. There is general feeling that we are in real

trouble. We have not got out of the problems. On a local level, there

seems to be a continuous, like a record playing from the

Conservatives about these universal benefits. I feel very strongly that

the Labour government in rows is committed to the universal benefits,

as a way of helping people in very tough times. The Scottish Labour

leader it is turning back on universal benefits. It only seems

to be the Labour Party in Wales that thinks that. It is the only

part where the Labour Party is in power. We appreciate how important

it is for people to have free prescriptions. I am interested in

what was said. It sounds like he will get rid of the universal bus

pass. With free prescriptions, if you take into account people who

are told, or will he take the free prescriptions of pensioners and

young people and people with chronic disabilities? People with

cancer. That comes to over 90% of the people. That leaves and a 10%.

It is not worth the administration to do that. -- under 10%. I think

it is like a tired old record. you think Andrew RT Davies with his

attacks on government are misguided? I think Julie is wrong

with the prescriptive charges. Only 15% of people that had

prescriptions were paying for them. It is a substantial amount. You

make choices. The free bus pass scheme was estimated to cost about

15 million to 20 million, it now costs about 70 million. This has to

be examined for efficiency and effectiveness at the time of

economic austerity. It may be right to keep them going. It is not

beyond politics to ask these questions. The cost for free

prescriptions has gone down. But is a sign of their success. Let's take

a look at Andrew RT Davies. He has come under attack lately from

people criticising his leadership from without the party. If you read

the press, for within his own party, how do you weigh up his first 15

months in charge? New leaders in the first couple of years have to

establish themselves. It takes a while to do this. Nick Bourne went

through this. There are always murmurings. He led from the front

but it is rocky at times. Andrew has demonstrated, he is a big

personality and he has ideas. Not everyone immediately will agree

with the ideas. The big decisions he has made, he has led and got

them right. Calling the Assembly a parliament, who could object to

that? Parliament is a wonderful, British word. It is to ride from

the French, of course. -- it is derived. He is seeing whether party

is going. The question of a more autonomous Welsh party is one to be

considered. Council workers across Wales face a postcode lottery in

trying to access the so-called living wage of �7.20 an hour from

employers. The Unison trade union has told BBC Wales it is

unacceptable that authorities vary in their approach to introducing

the wage level. It is Roald Dahl Day at this primary-school.

Children at the Breakfast Club are happy to be dressed as favourite

storybook characters. The people who serve them are happier as well.

The council is increasing wages to �7.20 an hour - the so-called

living wage. That is the minimum income necessary to provide shelter,

clothing and nutrition. It is over �1 an hour more than the minimum

wage. Because of the pay freeze on the public sector workers, then the

gap between the minimum wage and the lowest paid local authority

member of staff had reduce substantially. With the

introduction now of the living wage, then that differential would be

further maintained. The living wage is not an idea which is short of

support in Wales. It is a Welsh Labour manifesto pledge. At a time

of intense pressure on council budgets, not all local of parities

can afford to implement it. Even some who are eager to do so face

some obstacles. There is a cost to the living wage. Generally speaking,

there is an equation which goes something like this, in the sense

that if you increase costs, you reduce overtime and your ability to

Remploy people. We have to balance those things. Caerphilly has

followed Cardiff, which had a living wage in July. It will cost

the authority were million pounds the year, �500 per staff member.

The story is not so enticing elsewhere. -- �1 million a year. In

that other ages, -- in the other areas, they have announced no such

plans. A postcode lottery in the availability of the living wage is

not acceptable. We're heading very quickly to a minimum wage work

force in local government. That is unacceptable. They deliver some of

the most important services. What statement are we saying to workers

where we are paying them closer and closer to the minimum age -- wage?

A policy group has been set up. Naturally we would like to see the

implementation of the living wage right across Wales. Not only would

-- with local authorities. They want to regenerate the whole area.

When we have contractors who will be engaging with the authority to

undertake certain works, we will be encouraging those as well to

implement the living wage for their members of staff. At a time of

financial cutbacks, the living wage poses a problem to the Government

and council bosses alike. Civil servants and NHS workers are paid

at least �7.20 an hour. Counterparts in local government

means they should increase. Julie Morgan, at a time of cuts, is this

really affordable? I think it is certainly something we should look

at. It is clear that the minimum wage does not take into account

different situations in different places. For example, rents and

housing costs can vary enormously. It is certainly something that

should be looked out. There are other ways of dealing with the

problems of the minimum wage have not been as wide as it should. That

is what the last Labour government introduced with the tax credits

will stop her purpose was to deal with this sort of thing. We should

be looking at it and measuring the affordability with the Budget that

is available. Where does the Conservative Party stand on this?

It is derived from the Labour Party manifesto commitment. It started

with the Catholic Church. I have sympathy for the views that we need

to have policies and improve the lot of the lowest paid. People who

take modest employment, the work ethic has to be strengthened so you

encourage people to take jobs where tax is as low as possible and the

benefits system does not discriminate against them. It is

really important that we do that. I am not against looking at these

aspirations. At the moment it will be difficult. The Government at UK

level is concentrating on raising the threshold at which to start to

pay tax. That helps people on low incomes vary considerably. At the

moment, councils are facing cuts. How would you make the case for

those to start paying the living wage when they might have to lay

people off? This needs to be balanced. I'm not saying every

council should do it. It is a Labour commitment, isn't it? It is

up to individual councils. There have to measure it against what

they cannot do. -- they have. I am pleased that Cardiff will do it -

my local authority. It has presumably measured that against

what would be lost. It is in the manifesto as something we would

aspire to than something we need to look very carefully at. The issue

of poverty - child poverty - has to be addressed through work. There is

a consistent battle in Wales, public versus private. Contractors

carrying out work for the council pay star of the living wage. What

do you think about that? -- pay staff. As a Conservative, I would

like to see wage rates increase. Especially for lower-paid workers.

We want the market to work more effectively. That is the aim.

Begets more money into the economy. People on low incomes have to spend

all day it earned because they do not have that much income to save.

-- all they earn. It is really important that we focus on a part

of the economy. That is where we get most economic growth

potentially. We will catch up later with the year after the next item.

-- with you. Time for a whiz around some of the political stories of

the week in 60 seconds. The Finance Minister is talking to opposition

Am's after the worst government outlined its spending plans for the

next year in the draft budget. She said it was a Budget for wealth --

growth and jobs. The Prime Minister said there were no plans to change

the law to reduce the legal time limit for abortions after Jeremy

Hunt suggested halving the limit from 24 to 12 weeks. Leslie

Griffiths said this suggestion was not in the best interest of women

in Wales. Hysteric was how the Presiding Officer described the law

that makes English and Welsh the official languages of the National

Assembly. The official languages Bell puts English and Welsh on an

equal footing. -- bail. Barbara Jones from the Philippe Baku was

the women that -- car for -- By -- woman kissed. They do have

equal status in the chamber. We have to make some choices as to

when things are translated and the policies around that. We had an

excellent debate in the chamber run the languages bail. One of the

powerful points that was made by the former Presiding Officer is

that we need to support certain parts of the work - particularly

legislation - so you can pass laws in Welsh genuinely as well as of

this league doing at the same time in English. -- in Welsh of fiercely.

The need to focus on the law-making we do. Julie, we touched on the

story on abortion in the 60 seconds. Some comments from Jeremy Hunt. The

Prime Minister said that was the views of Jeremy Hunt and not of the

Government, to reduce the abortion deadline to 12 weeks instead of 24.

What you make of the whole debate? I am staggered that a new health

secretary - if they are his personal views, he is the Health

Secretary - has thought about reducing it by half. He has made

his views clear before the party conference. I was in Westminster

the last time abortion was debated. There was a clear balance to keep

it at 24 weeks. That was a medical evidence. It is foolhardy of Jeremy

Hunt to put this suggestion for it, which would Riyait penalise the

most vulnerable women, the ones who have abortions later on. 90% a done

in the first 13 weeks. It is the older women, the younger women,

where there are fears about the health of the women and of the