Browse content similar to 09/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Later in the programme... David Cameron is on the devolution trail | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
making the case for Scotland to stay in the union. And a senior Welsh MP | :01:43. | :01:53. | |
:01:53. | :01:53. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2139 seconds | :01:53. | :37:32. | |
thinks England needs more devolved Hello. On the Sunday Politics Wales, | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
a warning that a failure to devolve power in England could threaten the | :37:36. | :37:43. | |
future of the UK. And as BBC Cymru Wales begins a week looking at the | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
economy, we get a Welsh Bangladeshi view on ethical trading. Joining me | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
throughout today's programme are two Assembly members, both new to the | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
Sunday Politics Wales studio. Good morning to Plaid Cymru's Lindsay | :37:53. | :37:59. | |
Whittle and Labour's Mike Hedges. I've just mentioned that BBC Cymru | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
Wales is running a special series of programmes and features on the | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
economy this week. It's called What Is Wales Worth? Normally, when we | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
talk about the economy, we look at international issues, the UK | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
Government and the Welsh Government. But you two are both former council | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
leaders. Mike Hedges, you lead Swansea Council. What can be done at | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
a local government level to boost the economy? Local authorities are | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
very big spenders, local procurement, buying as much locally | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
as possible, giving planning permission to major development, | :38:26. | :38:34. | |
making sure things are funded more specially and, more importantly, use | :38:34. | :38:41. | |
local workers. One project was looking to come forward, and local | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
authorities trying to promote development in their area to get | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
people back into work. Lindsay Whittle, lots of things that he | :38:50. | :38:59. | |
outlines. Is enough being done by local government? It is important | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
that Welsh Government actually legislates for local government to | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
actually procure their goods more locally. In Wales, only 52% of money | :39:08. | :39:16. | |
is spent in Wales. The businesses go outside. In terms of figures, half | :39:16. | :39:23. | |
of the spend, so how many millions of pounds? I do not know exactly | :39:23. | :39:30. | |
is, but one annual budget is about �400 million per year. If that was | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
spent locally, it would create local jobs, which we should be doing, | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
spending locally, and no other government would allow this. In | :39:39. | :39:48. | |
France, 98% of its money is spent in France. In England, 97%. In Wales, | :39:49. | :39:58. | |
:39:59. | :40:02. | ||
52%. That is unfair. It has to go up. And money in different areas | :40:02. | :40:09. | |
needs to be spent within that area, but that can be very difficult, but | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
within a city region area, we should be able to get up to 80%, which | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
would make a huge difference. about legislation? That can be | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
difficult. You have to stick to European rules, and also problems | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
that some things cannot be sourced locally. But the idea of trying to | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
push it up, aiming for 80%, is achievable and something I hope the | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
Welsh Government would promote. we need to encourage Welsh local | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
government to spend some of its millions it is keeping in the bank | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
to improve the economy. Thank you for the time being. | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
Any failure to devolve power in England threatens the future of the | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
UK, two senior MPs from across the political divide have told this | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
programme. The warning from select committee chairs, Labour's Graham | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
Allen and David Davies, the Conservative MP for Monmouth, comes | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
as the constitutions of Wales and Scotland are debated. Brian Meechan | :41:06. | :41:12. | |
reports. David Cameron. David Cameron went to | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
Scotland on Friday to tell his party conference that 2014 is about saving | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
the union. Scott Booth appals make sure to vote on the independence | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
referendum. -- Scottish people go to the polls. He said they should keep | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
the union together. Downing Street has always been the centre of | :41:32. | :41:38. | |
British political life. Since 1999, power from Wales, Northern Ireland | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
and Scotland have passed to the First Minister in their respective | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
capitals. But why should England be run by a centralised UK Government? | :41:47. | :41:54. | |
The Labour MP, Graham Allen, here's the Constitutional Select Committee, | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
which scrutinises the Deputy Prime Minister. He says political parties | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
should deal with this. If they do not, the conventional political | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
parties will leave the field free brother organisations, perhaps like | :42:07. | :42:16. | |
UKIP, -- will leave the field free for the other organisations, such | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
like UKIP, which will be a very bad deal for the people of England. | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
Graham Allen argues that demolition has been a success I is there and | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
did like to see it applied in England. And failure to do so will | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
increase discontent. He believes that. All-macro it seems you get | :42:36. | :42:43. | |
devolution if you jump up and down and make a noise. That should not | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
just apply to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, but to England. If | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
you has those two key principles, evolution and union, we can put | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
nationalism back in the box. The chair of the Welsh Affairs | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
Select Committee, David Davies, agrees the status quo is not an | :43:00. | :43:07. | |
option. Doing nothing, which is what we have done since 1999, is | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
dangerous, playing into the hands of UKIP and perhaps other tumours | :43:12. | :43:20. | |
parties, and undermines the union. -- and other extremist parties. UKIP | :43:20. | :43:27. | |
leaves the Arab running scared. -- UKIP believes that some of the other | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
parties are running scared. BC UKIP coming up, after they are despised, | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
and they are reacting. And UKIP are now setting the agenda as we have | :43:38. | :43:44. | |
seen. Labour had planned to devolve powers from Westminster to regional | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
assemblies in England, coming to a shuddering halt after the Northeast | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
delivered an emphatic no vote a decade ago. We need to look at the | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
package that was on offer, and believe that is why it was rejected. | :43:58. | :44:05. | |
London voted for a local government, voted for the mayor, and others dead | :44:05. | :44:11. | |
vote no that, others endorsing it. Maybe there is a challenge for | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
English colleagues, exploring devolution, and looking at models | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
that work differently in different parts of England. The silk | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
commission looked at whether the Assembly should have more powers | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
including financial areas. A decision is imminent over whether | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
Wales will get power over income tax and borrowing. They could then keep | :44:31. | :44:39. | |
some money gathered in Wales, rather than relying on grants, and Welsh | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
ministers could vary income tax rates. Is it sustainable to have | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
evermore devolution for Wales and Scotland, while England's remains as | :44:46. | :44:52. | |
it has always been? Critics say it is not. I can vote for higher | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
student fees in England, whilst supporting a situation where shins | :44:56. | :45:02. | |
do not pay those fees in Wales, -- where students do not pay those fees | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
on wheels, which is unfair. That basic unfairness is likely to | :45:07. | :45:13. | |
fracture the union. One of these days, taxpayers in England will see | :45:14. | :45:21. | |
this is outrageous. Some in Wales may argue we have an Assembly, what | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
difference does it make how England is governed? But when over 80% of | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
the population in the UK lives in England, how it is governed affect | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
the future of the whole of the UK. Lindsay Whittle, you do not really | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
mind the future of the UK being threatened, do you? It is music to | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
my ears. The London government is so irrelevant now, it has passed its | :45:46. | :45:54. | |
sell by date, Wales and Scotland are moving forward, and support for the | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
regions of England as well. Plaid Cymru is an international party. | :45:58. | :46:05. | |
Imagine a Cornish one looking after the people of Cornwall. The | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
Northeast rejected one, but I think now the time is right for a devolved | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
British Parliament to go back out into the regions and look after | :46:14. | :46:24. | |
people. A suggestion from Kevin from UKIP there that this was a case of | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
the mainstream political parties, Labour, the Conservatives, looking | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
after their own interests and taking part of the debate because they are | :46:31. | :46:41. | |
:46:41. | :46:41. | ||
scared UKIP will take some votes. That could be true. It is blatantly | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
unfair we have assemblies in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but | :46:44. | :46:54. | |
nothing in England. Across Europe, they have devolution with one | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
exception of an island in Finland. Devolution means assemblies are | :46:58. | :47:06. | |
dotted around, Spain, Germany, all having different assemblies. | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
Basically regional assemblies, and there has to be an English | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
Parliament, but it desperately needs one. The Mackay commission published | :47:15. | :47:21. | |
towards the end of March, suggesting there might be a reduced role for | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
Welsh MPs. Is that a recognition that maybe we need to be perhaps | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
giving more prominence to English politicians within England because | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
of what has happened with devolution? It is only fair that | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
include politicians should decide on English laws, Welsh politicians | :47:39. | :47:44. | |
deciding Welsh laws, perfectly reasonable and logical. I cannot | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
understand why that is this mental block when you go to London and you | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
can see power resting in one place. That is no longer acceptable all | :47:55. | :48:04. | |
stop but how do we go about it? but how do we go about it? The West | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
Lothian question seems to be focusing many people's minds. | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
Whatever happens in Scotland will have an impact on the future shape | :48:12. | :48:22. | |
:48:22. | :48:22. | ||
of the UK. I hope Scotland will fall no to separatism, for Scotland and | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
the United Kingdom. You cannot have two types of MPs, they should have | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
exactly the same powers, so you need an English Parliament. We have in | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
England which is anomalous within a United Kingdom context which needs | :48:37. | :48:44. | |
to be put right. So what could happen? Legislation to create and | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
includes Parliament, with similar powers to Wales, Scotland and | :48:48. | :48:58. | |
:48:58. | :49:00. | ||
Northern Ireland. The do not have vastly different powers. We could | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
have modified powers to clarify the Welsh position. It would be very | :49:04. | :49:10. | |
simple to have an endless Parliament dealing with English issues. They | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
are not all the same, Scotland and Northern Ireland have borrowing | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
powers, the Welsh Government does not. The Welsh Government needs | :49:18. | :49:25. | |
that. A key military council has more boring powers -- community | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
Council has more borrowing powers. That can help create more | :49:28. | :49:37. | |
employment. I have almost got boring on that subject, and that would help | :49:37. | :49:44. | |
inflate the economy, something that needs a change of Treasury rules. | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
All they have to do is make changes to the Welsh Assembly government to | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
have the same powers, which would solve the problems. No legislation, | :49:53. | :50:00. | |
just a Treasury letter. And the final work on Scotland. Mike Hedges | :50:00. | :50:06. | |
wants Scotland to remain part of the UK, you do not, how likely is that? | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
I will spend my holiday next year in Scotland campaigning for Scotland to | :50:10. | :50:15. | |
have its own independent government, and I look forward to that day, and | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
the day when Wales follows suit. shall gauge the effect of your | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
holiday when the referendum comes next September. Thank you for the | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
time being. This week, BBC Cymru Wales is | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
focusing on the economy with a series of special programmes and | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
features asking What Is Wales Worth? We set the ball rolling at the start | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
of today's programme and we are continuing with an economic theme, | :50:36. | :50:38. | |
ethical shopping. A high street issue that goes beyond Wales and the | :50:38. | :50:46. | |
The recent deaths of more than 1000 people at a clothing factory in | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
Bangladesh has raised concerns over the terms and conditions faced by | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
clothing workers in Southeast Asia and the Far East, prompting a debate | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
over how and where called are made. That debate has been taking place | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
within the Bangladeshi community in Wales, the backbone of the | :51:02. | :51:08. | |
restaurant industry, and the feeling that consumers need to shop with a | :51:08. | :51:18. | |
conscience. People are very poor and very hard-working. And there are | :51:18. | :51:27. | |
normally low wages and they do not even earn more than 150 -- won more | :51:27. | :51:35. | |
than �1 50 per day. And I believe there should be a minimum wage. | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
number of high street retailers have backed plans to improve safety at | :51:39. | :51:46. | |
Bangladeshi clothing factories. Safety was said to be at the heart | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
of responsible retailing with ethical trading programmes ensuring | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
tough safety standards were built built-in with suppliers to drive up | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
standards for health and safety. And that these standards routinely go | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
far beyond the legal requirements of the countries in which they | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
operate. The UK Government is donating �80 million to train | :52:08. | :52:16. | |
Bangladesh guess she garment workers -- Bangladeshi Garment workers. | :52:16. | :52:25. | |
Wales, being the world's first beer trade nation, there is a commitment | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
from grassroots to ensure sustainability for supply and the | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
farmers, the small farmers growing the products we rely on everyday, | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
and being treated fairly with a minimum wage and so on. But the | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
result was more a government can do. We have a sustainable | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
development Bill in process, and the finance minister is keen to ensure | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
that everything spent in Wales is spent sustainable aid. And there is | :52:50. | :52:56. | |
a feeling that shoppers do have some power. It is a shame it took for | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
people to lose their lives for us to consider where clothes are coming | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
from. We are starting to see campaign is going into shops and | :53:03. | :53:09. | |
asking, which is where it starts. We sometimes do not realise how much | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
power we have. And that power does not need to end there. Many poor | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
people are making these calls. And the people who are buying these, | :53:17. | :53:25. | |
they should realise where it is from, or how it has come. Do you | :53:25. | :53:31. | |
think they should refuse to buy some of these garments? Well, of course, | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
they should refuse to buy some of these. But something like happened | :53:37. | :53:47. | |
in Bangladesh happens again. Mike Hedges, I think that the | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
tragedy in Bangladesh makes everyone think about where their garments are | :53:50. | :53:56. | |
coming from. I have gone through, I hesitate to use the word wardrobe, | :53:56. | :54:01. | |
but lots of them from overseas, China, other places. This has | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
concentrated the minds and maybe put the responsibility to find out we're | :54:05. | :54:14. | |
garments are made? It certainly does. My constitution -- my | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
constituency has lots of garment workers, some of which has moved | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
overseas. I understand people putting very small amounts of money | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
left in the pocket to buy garments for their children as well. I can | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
see why they are doing that and, if they did not do that, their children | :54:32. | :54:40. | |
would be a lot worse. This tragedy, though it has focused some big | :54:40. | :54:46. | |
companies, and some paying compensation, some signing up to an | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
accord that they will work to improve safety in these textile | :54:50. | :54:57. | |
factories. But it takes something huge, at huge loss of life, before | :54:57. | :55:03. | |
action is taken. Yes, what happened was tragic and a very sad | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
occurrence, and I'm sure everyone around the world sat up and took | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
notice. We do not have many designer shops in Wales. What I find ironic | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
is we have poor Welsh people purchasing cheap clothing that is | :55:17. | :55:25. | |
made by poor Bangladeshi people. That is the ironic twist in this | :55:25. | :55:31. | |
story. Personally, we buy fair trade coffee, bananas, chocolate, and | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
there are such a thing as fair trade clothing, and Wales are supposed to | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
be a fair trade nation, and we should concentrate minds and ensure | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
we become a fair trade clothing nation. A sense that these products | :55:44. | :55:50. | |
come at a premium, costing more? Personally, I would rather pay extra | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
in the hope that the worker manufacturing the garments gets a | :55:53. | :55:59. | |
decent wage. If we stopped buying these cheap clothes, that would do | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
no good for the Bangladeshi economy, because those people would be out of | :56:03. | :56:10. | |
work. In Bangladesh and other places, we need building regulations | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
and a whole other range, which the Tories described as red tape, but | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
which are rules to keep people safe. Minimum wages, a whole range | :56:19. | :56:26. | |
of things, once I personally believe and that will have an effect. It | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
could put 50p on the Taoiseach, but have a huge effect on the people | :56:29. | :56:36. | |
making it. -- on the garment. Thank you. Time now for a quick look back | :56:36. | :56:43. | |
at some of the political stories of the week in 60 seconds. | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
Carolyn Jones said Wales was making progress with improvements in areas | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
like the economy, jobs, education and housing as he published the | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
annual review. Opposition said without measurable targets the | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
programme for government was meaningless all stop Welsh | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
Conservatives set out plans to reimburse taxpayers the money the | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
Welsh Government paid for Cardiff airport and that growth in | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
passengers and routes could result in it being sold back to the private | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
sector. The troubled airport was bought in March and that it now has | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
the right structure to move forward. Criticism of plans to cut the legal | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
aid budget. The prime ministers said there was a consultation and | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
response is considered, but there would have to be cuts. And the story | :57:29. | :57:35. | |
we featured last week, a deal on tackling senior council officials | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
pay and opposition parties. Plaid Cymru said council chief executives | :57:38. | :57:45. | |
wages would now be set by a read minute Asian panel. | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
-- would now be looked at by our panel. | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
Both of you gentlemen have dealt with council chief executives. | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
Lindsay Whittle, we discussed at last week. Your party claims victory | :57:57. | :58:05. | |
on this. Quite rightly so. Well done to them. It is a shame that the | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
Welsh Government had to be dragged kicking and screaming into that | :58:09. | :58:15. | |
Vickery, but it is one we will not forget. What happened was a public | :58:15. | :58:21. | |
disgrace. It would never have happened when I was leader at | :58:21. | :58:31. | |
:58:31. | :58:33. | ||
carefully. And I do see that. Hedges, you were talking about that | :58:33. | :58:39. | |
subject, and a lot happening in seven days. And it is not just one | :58:39. | :58:46. | |
council, and your party can be involved. It is a local government | :58:46. | :58:53. | |
problem. We used to have this national agreement, and it has been | :58:53. | :59:00. | |
ratcheted up, and what we need is to get down to a situation where there | :59:00. | :59:08. | |
is everyone paid at a rate which is acceptable. I pleaded down more as | :59:08. | :59:14. | |
my Vickery, because I have been arguing this for a long time. -- the | :59:14. | :59:24. | |
:59:24. | :59:26. | ||
I see this more as my victory. there been a change of dynamic? | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
Maybe defeating the government is going to far? But the government | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
changing their mind because of pressure from opposition parties. | :59:33. | :59:42. | |
Should the government take that in mind going ahead? If the opposition | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
parties get together, it can bring the Assembly to a grinding halt. I | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
do not think Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats would want that to | :59:50. | :59:57. | |
happen. Not just a grinding halt, change of policy? This is one real | :59:57. | :00:02. | |
occasion when the parties can get together, but we will not always get | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
together, because we fundamentally disagree with the Conservative Party | :00:06. | :00:12. | |
issues. This is a rear occasion. This was right decision that you | :00:12. | :00:16. |