Browse content similar to 23/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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decide whether Welsh parents can smack their children: the Assembly, | :01:12. | :01:22. | |
:01:22. | :01:22. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2117 seconds | :01:22. | :36:40. | |
the Supreme Court or parents UK and introduce a ban on smacking | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
children? And we will hear from the Shadow welfare secretary -- Shadow | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
Welsh Secretary as George Osborne prepares to unveil the UK | :36:49. | :36:55. | |
Government's latest spending plans. Bethan Jenkins and Byron Davies join | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
me throughout the programme. The spending review, the decision is | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
made in Westminster but it will have a big impact in Wales, wouldn't it? | :37:05. | :37:13. | |
We have made our case out quite clearly to the Wales Office, who I | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
believe will be making the case to the Chancellor. How concerned are | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
you about what we are about to hear from the spending review? Our party | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
are very concerned because we have had huge cutbacks and the Labour | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
Government here is saying that they will protect the people of Wales. If | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
more budgets are cut that will affect citizens of Wales badly and I | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
would urge the UK parties to think again. Those are the views here in | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
the studio. Let's get the views of the Shadow Welsh Secretary, Owen | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
Smith, who joins us from Millbank. We've heard a lot of talk over the | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
last few weeks from Labour that there appears to be a change in the | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
mood in terms of handling the economy. What would you say is the | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
approach to austerity from Labour now? We know that we are going to | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
see further cuts coming from the Tory government in Westminster next | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
week when the spending review is announced. The only reason the | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
Tories are having this spending review is because the scale of their | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
failure is becoming so apparent. We know that we will inherit it in 2015 | :38:28. | :38:36. | |
if we win and the deficit will be �96 billion, higher by 78 billion | :38:36. | :38:42. | |
than they told us by three years ago that they anticipated by 2015. | :38:42. | :38:51. | |
Therefore any prospect of government, any opposition, needs to | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
recognise that and have a hard-headed view of what we need to | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
do to deal with it. We cannot commit right now to reversing the cuts that | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
we anticipate seeing from George Osborne on Wednesday when he speaks | :39:04. | :39:11. | |
to the country, but we would come to government with a radically | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
different set of values and priorities and would take radically | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
different decisions about how we would reduce that deficit. It would | :39:20. | :39:30. | |
:39:30. | :39:33. | ||
mean, I think, that I as a Welsh Secretary would be... It was only | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
last week that we sought Wales lost out by 7% on its budget despite the | :39:38. | :39:44. | |
fact that the Tories are saying Wales hasn't lost out. I feel we | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
will lose out further still this week. Let me ask you about members | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
of your own party who do not agree that signing up to this austerity | :39:53. | :40:00. | |
programme is the way forward. It doesn't seem as though Carwyn Jones, | :40:00. | :40:07. | |
the Welsh Labour Leader, has signed up to this and has said that | :40:07. | :40:13. | |
austerity is failing. Why would you sign up to it now? We know that the | :40:13. | :40:20. | |
government has cut too far and too fast over the last few years. People | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
were frightened that our economy was going to tank and therefore they | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
stopped spending. This misses stopped spending, we have the | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
largest amount of money sitting in the business bank account in the | :40:32. | :40:41. | |
history of Britain so we know that slashing the budgets doesn't work, | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
but Labour as a prospective government must be honest. It would | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
be great if I could say we would reverse these cuts tomorrow, but the | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
fact that the Tories have failed to get any growth in our economy... We | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
have got billions of pounds fewer tax receipts in Britain than we | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
would have had had we've seen some growth in the economy. It has been | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
disastrous over the last couple of years, it is why they are borrowing | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
so much more than they anticipated and why we have a deficit that is | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
massively greater than we anticipated. It would be dishonest | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
of us to say we would reverse these cuts. We must be real with people. | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
We would spell out what our arguments are. We would not have a | :41:27. | :41:37. | |
:41:37. | :41:39. | ||
millionairess' tax cut -- millionaire's tax cut. It is wrong, | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
it is immoral, and we would be taxing bankers bonuses in the way we | :41:43. | :41:49. | |
did last year. We would also take tough decisions. We would recognise | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
that in tough times we can't continue to provide things like the | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
winter fuel allowance for pensioners who are earning more than �40,000. | :41:58. | :42:07. | |
Please stay with us for the moment. Byron Davies, the Chancellor today | :42:07. | :42:14. | |
said that he had won the argument on austerity. Is that right? | :42:14. | :42:24. | |
:42:24. | :42:24. | ||
factors, this coalition -- the fact is, this coalition government had | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
deficit that was unprecedented since the Second World War. We have cut it | :42:27. | :42:33. | |
by one third already, so everyone must maintain savings, all | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
government departments, and the Welsh government is no different. I | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
am fully behind the Chancellor. Bethan Jenkins, we heard from the | :42:44. | :42:51. | |
Chancellor today that the economy was recovering. If you look at | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
unemployment, it is stagnating and has been since 2010, youth | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
unemployment is increasing, productivity, we are falling behind | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
other countries like Germany, France and the United States. Are we | :43:03. | :43:13. | |
getting out of this? It is not clear at all. You only have to look at the | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
UK parties, which know they are very similar to each other. Ed Balls said | :43:16. | :43:23. | |
he would carry on the Tory cuts. The Labour Party would carry on with the | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
academies. It is totally hypocritical for Owen Smith to say | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
that he would be reasonable and realistic when they currently may as | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
well be the Tory party. You may as well be the Tory party according to | :43:37. | :43:47. | |
:43:47. | :43:51. | ||
Bethan Jenkins. There is a reality about the nature of the deficit that | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
the government anticipated getting debt down. Debt as a proportion of | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
GDP is going to be 30% greater when the Tories leave office in 2015 than | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
when they came to office in 2010. That is the absolute heart truth, | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
and that is the measure of their failure. We need to take tough | :44:11. | :44:18. | |
decisions. It is the case that the deficit since 2011 has stagnated and | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
debt has been increasing. Nobody expected it to take this long, but | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
you have to remember we have created 1 million jobs in the private | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
sector, so it is not quite as grim and I believe the economy is turning | :44:31. | :44:38. | |
a corner. I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land. You have the | :44:38. | :44:44. | |
bedroom tax, you have people suffering. People are on benefits, | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
they can't find work. We need to step back and look at the political | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
priorities and it is only fair to talk about conforming to this UK | :44:52. | :44:58. | |
Government agenda but we should talk about people putting money in | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
offshore bank accounts like Nigel Farage, we should be looking at | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
putting money into sustainable businesses in Wales as opposed to | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
punishing those who are poor in society. We always have the analysis | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
of trying to help the rich rather than the poor. That is why I'm in | :45:15. | :45:21. | |
politics, at others are in it for different reasons. Argue in it for | :45:21. | :45:30. | |
the rich? I don't think so. -- are you in it for the rich? There are | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
few millionaires amongst us, we are trying to help the people of Wales | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
and come from very humble backgrounds. There was a very | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
successful strategy in 1997 in sticking to the outgoing | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
Conservative government's spending plans. Are you going to try and | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
stick to that 1997 strategy which you delivered so successfully? | :45:55. | :46:01. | |
reality in 97 was we were anticipating rising budgets, rising | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
departmental spending. We were not in the desperate economic straits we | :46:05. | :46:12. | |
are currently in. Sticking to similar plans right now, or saying | :46:12. | :46:19. | |
more accurately that we can't commit after the next election to increases | :46:19. | :46:28. | |
day-to-day spending, would be wrong. We will have to reduce department | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
budgets. We will still be in difficulty until we get our economy | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
growing, but we have said that we would have different priorities. We | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
would borrow more to invest in infrastructure, the key ways to get | :46:43. | :46:50. | |
our economy moving. We would learn, from example, from Wales where the | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
Welsh Labour government has implemented a work programme that is | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
far more effective than that being in fermented by the Tories in | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
Westminster, so there are good -- implemented by the Tories in | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
Westminster. We will do it the way the Tory government should have done | :47:07. | :47:16. | |
it three years ago. Ultimately, it is too little, too late. Thank you | :47:16. | :47:23. | |
very much, Owen Smith, for joining us from Millbank. | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
Campaigners say that Assembly Members should the the first -- make | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
Wales in the first part of the UK to ban the smacking of children, even | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
if they have to face a challenge in the Supreme Court. A leading charity | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
said a ban would be hugely significant for child protection, | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
but there are warnings from Westminster that the legal challenge | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
would be almost inevitable. Over the years, although Assembly | :47:46. | :47:56. | |
Members have voted to ban smacking, the votes have never been binding. | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
It has been more than a decade since it was first discussed, but back | :48:02. | :48:10. | |
then Assembly Members lacked the power to introduce a ban. Now a bill | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
with child protection at its heart is making its way through the | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
Assembly. Campaigners say it is a golden opportunity to outlaw | :48:18. | :48:24. | |
offences against children. We will fulfil our commitment to children's | :48:24. | :48:31. | |
rights and it will make children safer, it will protect them where | :48:31. | :48:37. | |
there are concerns, it will very much help the government help | :48:37. | :48:45. | |
families. Political parties will face demands to ban smacking in the | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
next Parliamentary elections in 2016, but there is every reason to | :48:48. | :48:57. | |
press ahead now. The bill is try to reduce the legal defence for | :48:57. | :49:04. | |
reasonable chastisement. It is not hard to find politicians in | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
Westminster who believe a ban would be straying into the arena of | :49:08. | :49:14. | |
criminal Justice, which is not evolved. These issues about what is | :49:14. | :49:24. | |
:49:24. | :49:26. | ||
devolved and what is not, we believe it is outside their dominion. I | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
think it would be a matter for the Secretary of State and Attorney | :49:29. | :49:38. | |
General. Amendments will be tabled to back a ban to an upcoming bill, | :49:38. | :49:45. | |
even if a Supreme Court challenge results. It will be contested by | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
Westminster and will probably end up in court, but people want | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
politicians to start making decisions, not worrying about | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
whether this is going to be challenged or not. If you don't have | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
the courage of your convictions you can't carry them forward and that is | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
what I fully intend to do. If people don't like it, too bad. I am doing | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
it for the protection of children, it is as simple as that. Welsh | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
government's reluctance to pursue a ban now is causing some tension with | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
Labour backbenchers in Cardiff Bay, some of whom have been campaigning | :50:19. | :50:25. | |
for this for years. I can remember when my children were little, I felt | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
like hitting them at times and I felt really stressed out. I felt | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
very stressed out and I did think of hitting them. As it happened, I | :50:35. | :50:41. | |
didn't, but I'll would have hoped that I would have known it wasn't | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
acceptable and I think it would be a great help to parents to know that | :50:46. | :50:53. | |
it is not acceptable in any form. think it is an admission of failure. | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
I have always been against hitting children and I don't think it is | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
appropriate to have a ban on smacking, I don't think it is | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
appropriate on that issue. I think the responsibility lies with | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
Westminster, but I think it should go before the Supreme Court before | :51:13. | :51:23. | |
:51:23. | :51:31. | ||
it can go ahead. The Welsh ending that report by Adrian Brown. | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
Bethan Jenkins, you are a member of the Assembly's Children and Young | :51:35. | :51:43. | |
People Committee. Is that it over? Ewe I don't think so, and as you can | :51:43. | :51:51. | |
hear from my colleague, we have seen Labour AMs committed to ending the | :51:51. | :51:57. | |
ban. To me, the worst smacking undermines the fact that this is | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
violence against children. Would you say to a man, it's OK to beat a | :52:01. | :52:08. | |
wife, just give her a little smack? He would be arrested and charged. | :52:08. | :52:15. | |
Until we have legislation in hand then we will be in this situation in | :52:15. | :52:23. | |
ten years' time. Byron Davies, you are former policeman, but there are | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
surely practicalities involved here in Hackney Wick in how they would | :52:25. | :52:35. | |
:52:35. | :52:40. | ||
enforce a ban on smacking. -- banning smacking. There are plenty | :52:40. | :52:47. | |
of offences to take people to court and arrest people, so I don't buy | :52:47. | :52:53. | |
into the value of the ban. I personally think it should be down | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
to the individual parents and left that way. It is not for government | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
to interfere with the way families are run. That is a point to pick up | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
on. There is a world of difference between beating a child and smacking | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
a child, is there not? Ewe that is an issue of perception, -- That is | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
an issue of perception, because if you continue to smack a child, what | :53:19. | :53:28. | |
is the line of acceptability of doing that? To go back to the | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
politics of the issue, I think the Welsh government, having had many | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
people stand on a political platform and say they would put a ban in | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
place or campaign for it, is undermining what the Minister is | :53:42. | :53:49. | |
doing. This is the ideal time to have an amendment instead of | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
delaying it and delaying it and delaying it until the next Assembly | :53:52. | :53:59. | |
and the next election. We heard your colleague saying there that this for | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
him straight into criminal Justice, which is not evolved and is a matter | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
for Westminster. The you agree? agree. There is an important point | :54:08. | :54:17. | |
:54:18. | :54:17. | ||
raised there. Certainly I think there will undoubtedly be that | :54:18. | :54:24. | |
issue. If politics think that parents are inclined to beat their | :54:24. | :54:31. | |
children, a piece of legislation. At -- a piece of legislation. That, | :54:31. | :54:39. | |
they are mistaken. Shouldn't we be focused on trying to protect those | :54:39. | :54:44. | |
children rather than concentrating on the smacking issue? If you put | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
those political and educational messages out there in line with | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
legislation then I think we can change those perceptions. I had a | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
lively debate before I came here about this very issue mirroring a | :54:56. | :55:03. | |
lot about what Byron Davies has said, but I think we need to | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
implement strategic thinking on this. Legislation always helps to | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
tell people that this action is not acceptable. Thank you to both of | :55:10. | :55:15. | |
you. Time now for a quick look back at some of the political stories of | :55:15. | :55:25. | |
:55:25. | :55:27. | ||
The UK Transport minister told the Welsh affairs select committee that | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
future plans for the bridges would have to reflect the interests of | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
England as well as Wales. A decision has yet to be made on ownership | :55:38. | :55:45. | |
ought polls. The former Plaid Cymru leader says he is standing down with | :55:45. | :55:55. | |
immediate effect. He requested a snap election in August. | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
The UK Government says it will not meet its own deadline to respond to | :55:58. | :56:08. | |
a report saying that ministers should be given... The report on the | :56:08. | :56:17. | |
subcommission won't be given until the end of spring. The Vale of | :56:17. | :56:27. | |
:56:27. | :56:29. | ||
Glamorgan MP Alan Cairns has denied the club FA membership. | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
Let's pick up on that delayed response from the UK Government to | :56:33. | :56:38. | |
the subcommission, firstly with Byron Davies. We've hearing a lot of | :56:38. | :56:44. | |
discussion about how we are going to reach agreement, whether we can | :56:44. | :56:51. | |
reach consensus on this. Why is there a delayed response? I think it | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
is generally getting full consideration. Nothing happened | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
under the last Labour government, the new government is taking its | :56:59. | :57:06. | |
time over it and in the fullness of time we will have a response. | :57:06. | :57:14. | |
think they would probably say... set up the subcommission quite soon | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
after getting into government. sure Bethan Jenkins has something to | :57:17. | :57:25. | |
say about that. We have been waiting long enough. Look at the powers in | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
Scotland compared to Wales, the sooner the better. We need | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
confirmation of our own powers as we can get ahead, for example, with the | :57:34. | :57:40. | |
smacking ban. Is this part of the ongoing discussion about the | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
changing constitution, what is going on in Scotland and, of course, the | :57:44. | :57:51. | |
English question? We need to take a wider approach. If Scotland has | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
independence next year the UK will change for ever and I think people | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
are in denial of that fact, particularly in the Welsh | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
government, so we need to have a wider conversation about powers in | :58:02. | :58:10. | |
the United team them. -- United Kingdom. Is that what you would like | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
to see, a wider discussion rather than a piecemeal debate? I actually | :58:15. | :58:24. | |
agree with Bethan Jenkins, I would welcome a debate on the whole issue. | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
Another issue spoken about there was the tolls, which was something you | :58:28. | :58:36. | |
are very interested in. The Severn crossings are very important, the | :58:36. | :58:43. | |
economy comes through them, trade transport finds it very difficult to | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
profit because they need to pay �18 for each lorry going over the | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
bridges, so we will never get rid of that hauls, I'm sure of that because | :58:51. | :59:00. | |
the bridge -- the tolls because the bridges need to be maintained. | :59:00. | :59:06. | |
have this story about S4C and the UK Government cutting funding for it | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
completely. I am very worried and I am hoping to table an urgent | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
question to the First Minister this week in the National Assembly. I | :59:16. | :59:20. |