30/06/2013 Sunday Politics Wales

Following the resignation of Leighton Andrews, Huw Lewis is in

charge of education. We look at some of the issues he'll face in one of

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1921 seconds

the most challenging jobs in Following the dramatic resignation

of Leighton Andrew from the Welsh Government, we'll look at some of

the challenges facing the new Education Minister, Huw Lewis.

And as we await the UK Government's response to recommendations that

ministers in Cardiff be given tax-varying powers, I've been

speaking to the man who's commission is making those recommendations.

Joining me throughout today's programme are the Labour AM David

Rees and the Liberal Democrat MP Jenny Willott.

We are few days the Spending Review. We have had a few days to consider

its implications. The Welsh government says the real terms cut

of 2% in the budget is extremely disappointing. How do you respond to

that? Wales has come out of this Spending Review much better than

almost any other part of government. It has been protected quite

significantly by the fact the Westminster government has protected

spending on health and education. Labour have accepted the overall

amount the government is cutting but would not have protected health and

education. Had they been in power, the cut to the watch assembly budget

would have been far deeper. I am relieved how well Wales has done.

Wales has done well. In real terms we have lost �1.6 billion since

2010. The coalition is setting the budget and we have got to

acknowledge that. We are seeing dramatic reductions. So the

implication as you see it, the narrative often is not from the

Welsh government that they can only deal with what the UK government

gives them. Do you think that is a thin narrative? That is the budget

we have. We have also got a look at how we can respond to some of the

other actions the government takes. The cuts to the welfare, the custody

and employed, the cuts to the people who are going to be in the most

vulnerable positions, we have got to respond to those. It is clearly a

very difficult financial times. The priority is to clear up the mess

that was left in 2010 and that has meant some very difficult choices.

The whole of the UK is affected by these cuts but there is a lot more

the Welsh government could be doing with the budget they have two attack

people, create jobs and build skills in the economy. We will deal with

more Welsh government news in a moment.

There's a big week ahead for the new Education Minister, Huw Lewis, as he

introduces his first piece of education legislation in the chamber

and makes a statement on the new exam regulator. Those are just two

of the issues in his ministerial in-tray as he begins one of the most

challenging jobs in government following the shock resignation of

Leighton Andrews. Brian Meechan's been finding out more.

As a former teacher, Huw Lewis may be able to bring his direct

experience of schools to his new role. That may be useful as he has

little time to get on top of his brief. The Welsh government had to

intervene in six council areas because the schools needed extra

attention. The special measures range from providing an action plan

to sending in commissioners to take over the running of the education

department. Huw Lewis will need to decide how to respond to review

which calls for the 22 education services in Wales to be cut by a

third in favour of larger, regional management groups. The general

consensus is that 22 is too many. We need to have a more streamlined

process but there has to be local accountability. We have seen the

work of the consortia in recent years as well. They are still in

their infancy and we need to make sure that they have the chance to

work. David Evans has been campaigning with the union this week

against the UK government's policies. The teaching unions often

find themselves with the Welsh government's approach to education

in recent years. Ministers have responded with the banding of

schools to allow better monitoring and the reintroduction of testing

young children. David Evans wants to see some changes. Everyone wants the

best. The results are not the be all and end all. While schools formed

the bedrock of the portfolio, further and higher education are key

economic drivers which need to occupy Huw Lewis's attention. Senior

figures from universities say the Minister needs to support them in

reforming the system to allow them to compete internationally. There

are areas like chemicals and physics were high costs are associated.

English universities currently get about �1500 per student more.

Welsh government capped tuition fees at �3500 wherever they choose to

study in the UK. I can see that is a good policy for students to one

domicile in Wales. Unfortunately, the Welsh government ends up funding

English universities. What I would like to see is a review of tuition

fee policy. The former Education Minister cut the number of

universities from 11 down to eight through mergers. His successor will

have to decide whether to continue on that route or whether that is

enough of a reduction. Leighton Andrews was criticised by some for

having a no-nonsense style which at times bordered on the abrasive.

Others will argue that he got a grip of an education system which was

underperforming in key areas. Opposition parties are looking at

whether the new minister will have a different style. He has been a very

different type of minister in his previous jobs so we are waiting to

see whether he can continue that work. The danger might be that the

people who have been herded together like cats will now start to scatter

and we will not see that delivery. We have not seen the improvement in

the standards despite the activity. 50%. Secondary school children

failing in numerous ER levels. We have had six by rector generals in

seven years of the Department. We have got a relatively inexperienced

deputy minister as well. Carwyn Jones has given Huw Lewis the role

of tidying up an education system that is in a state of flux. All eyes

will be on the new minister as he makes his first moves.

David, before you became an Assembly Member, you have a background in

education. Maybe you should have been considered for the job. But

this ministerial change was not predicted. It has given interested

parties an opportunity to lobby the new minister to try and unpick the

bits they did not like about Leighton Andrews. Could that

destabilise the government policy? don't think so. Huw Lewis will

continue the policies laid down by the government under Leighton

Andrews. Is he right to do that?He is right to do that. We put forward

policies in our manifesto and he will continue to drive that. What do

you make of this resignation and do you think it will have more of an

impact on the government's education policy or on the dynamic of the

Labour backbenches? I think it could be quite interesting in both areas

but I hope it does mean that there is a significant change in focus on

standards in Wales. Wales has fallen very disappointingly behind in the

gap between English pupils and Welsh pupils. Leighton Andrews was

committed to raising standards. Wales has fallen backwards over the

last few years. We need to see that turned around. Wales has got to

improve. We have got to go back up the rankings because otherwise we

are letting down the young people of Wales. They are not reaching their

potential and that is not fair. Let's address the tuition fees

debate. A call for a review of the policy. Your party had its own

troubles with tuition fees and you voted against the government. Do you

agree that the situation in Wales should be reviewed? It definitely

needs to be reviewed. There is a lot of money going from Wales to English

universities as the report said. There has been a significant gap in

funding for a very long time now. It was a problem before the assembly

was established and it is getting worse every year. We have some

fantastic -- universities in Wales and they need to be able to produce

the results they are capable of. will not take any lessons from the

Liberal Democrats on tuition fees. We are supporting Welsh young people

to get the best opportunities possible. That sometimes has to be

in institutions across the border. We are helping our young people get

the best start in their lives. how do you suggest the suggestion

that, essentially, the Welsh government is funding universities

in England at the expense of universities in Wales? The answer

is, if we follows a policy of the UK government, the UK government

stopped funding institutions by 80%. We are looking to support our young

people to go into higher education wherever they feel there are the

best courses and the best opportunities for them. But when

someone like the vice chancellor of Cardiff University says it should be

reviewed, shouldn't the Welsh government at least sit down and

listen? Anyone who is funded by the Welsh government will seek to raise

questions. I mention the change in the dynamic within the Labour group.

Leighton Andrews is considered by many to be the brightest minister

now start on your backbenches. Do you think you will be sitting

quietly? I look forward to him joining us on the backbenches

because it will give him a chance to attack the opposition as a

backbencher. Will it be harmonious on the backbenches with him? People

know he is committed fully to the Welsh government. Going forward, we

have got Huw Lewis as a minister. He has been in government. Choosing

him, he has got a background in education, I think he was Deputy

Education Minister years ago. Is he the right choice? I am less

concerned about who it is and more concerned about what they do in

their job. I disagree with what David has said about tuition fees

and about the way we need to Mitchell our universities are

protected in terms of their funding and they don't fall further behind

English institutions. But what they do in terms of bringing up standards

in schools is going to be incredibly important. And is he the right man

for the job? He has knowledge and history of the education system and

he will drive it forward. He is very passionate about education and

making sure people from poorer backgrounds get the best

opportunities. We went into last week's Spending

Review knowing that the UK Government would not meet its own

deadline on responding to a report that recommended ministers in

Cardiff be given tax-varying powers. Welsh Secretary David Jones had said

his government's view on the Silk Commission report would be given in

the near future, but not before the end of spring, as had been promised.

Led by the former assembly Clark, Paul Silk, the commission was set up

as part of the coalition agreement between the code -- conservatives

and the Liberal Democrats. The first part of the review looked at the

financial powers of the assembly and now they are looking at the other

powers. I met up with Paul Silk and asked him whether he was surprised

that the UK government had not yet responded to his first report on

finance. I think there will be a response imminently. It is not very

far away. It always takes some time when there is a cobbler set of

recommendations by typical -- different government departments. I

am not surprised it had taken some time. The summer recess is coming

up. You plan to publish your next report in the spring. How does your

workload look bit dinner to that? -- building up to that? We will be

concluding our evidence taking in the early autumn and then our job is

to think about the evidence we have had, to talk about it between

ourselves, to think where we come to a common view and were, in this

process, there are some differences and whether there is something we

can do to resolve those differences in a way we can all agree upon. One

of the strengths of our first report and one of the reasons I hope it

will be found acceptable to the UK government was that all members of

the commission were prepared to endorse it and that led to the

assembly unanimously endorsing it as well. There is a lot of strength

that comes first the ball from having all four parties represented

on the commission but also from a consensus report. I don't think

anyone can say it is not say anything at all but quite radical

things were said in the first report despite having a consensus. I hope

we can do the same in part two. have compiled a substantial report.

As a former senior civil servant, ego does not come into it, but will

you be disappointed if all of these recommendations are not taken on

board by the UK government? course I would be. When we look at

what the response is, I hope, because we produced our report as a

package, we would like it all to be accepted as a package. It may be

that one or two elements, they may be good reason why the UK government

will not want to go along with them, and if they explain those reasons

well, I don't think I will be so disappointed. We don't necessarily

expect everything we recommend to be taken up line and sinker. But we

came up with a package we thought hanged together very well and we

would like to see the whole of that package accepted.

We have had plenty of hints from the UK government that this response is

imminent but it has taken longer than they said it would. That is not

good news. It has left it hanging in the air. I am an eternal optimist

and I think the longer we wait, the better the chance we have of it

agreeing with the commissioner and devolving more powers to the

assembly. I hope we will see it soon. I have no inside track on it.

But I am an optimist. David, are you an optimist? We were told it would

be done by spring. That has come and gone. Not in Westminster terms.It

is interesting to see that Westminster defines terms

differently than we all do. It says imminent, when his imminent? If we

are not careful, we will have part two out before part one has even

been discussed. Paul Silk said that he and the commissioners would be

disappointed if the UK government did not take on-board most, if not

all of the recommendations. What is your recommendation or expectation?

I would hope they would take on the recommendations. We all know about

the need for borrowing powers. The other forms of taxation could be

expanded. There are ways forward. Danny Alexander and George Osborne

are saying positive things this week, certainly about the M4 relief

road and tying that into the government's response on the Silk

Commission. That suggests it is needed as quickly as possible so

that these kind of projects can get moving. There is a fair amount of

negotiating going on behind-the-scenes. My understanding

is there is a lot of conversations going on to pave the way for

different things. I agree with David. I want to see it happening as

soon as possible. But it is also important that it is right. A couple

of weeks longer, if it means we get the right result, it is worth

waiting. This commission is split into two parts and evidence is being

taken at the moment on part two in terms of the assembly's powers going

forward. If you were invited to give evidence, what would you tell the

Silk Commission? It is quite clear where we want to go with more

devolved powers and more like the Scottish equality situation. I spoke

to Paul Silk about that and he said it was not official evidence.

not official evidence but it is important that these are people who

are going to be implementing any part.

Time now for a quick look back at some of the political stories of the

week in 60 seconds. With new ministerial jobs for Huw

Lewis and Jeff Cuthbert and promotions fought for getting and

Ken Skates, Angela Burns was disappointed that they were not any

new women brought into the Welsh government. Then UK government

announced a new �250 million super prison would be built in North

Wales. An exact location has not been decided yet but it is expected

to house up to 2000 inmates. To selected candidates for the Anglesey

by-election. Plaid Cymru chose Rhun ap Iorwerth who has been a news

presenter for BBC Wales until recently. Labour chose Tal Michael.

And the first minister ordered a full investigation into why Big

Ideas Wales, a Welsh government website, provided advice to young

people on how to become strippers and how to set up escort agencies.

David, let's look ahead. Tuesday afternoon, you and your fellow

Assembly Members will be talking about the organ transplant bill, the

final stage. What do you hope will happen on Tuesday? I hope it will

pass on Tuesday. The Minister has brought forward some amendments

which will relieve the situation of concerns raised. It should pass on

Tuesday and look for Royal assent. What is your take on this Bill?

think it will be very interesting to see it passed into law. It has been

a very slow process. It is quite clear that the majority of people

want to see it come into law and it will be very interesting for the

rest of the UK to see what impact it has on transplant rates in Wales.

While David and his colleagues will be debating this on Tuesday, you

will be debating the Finance Bill this week and you could possibly go

on until three a.m. In the morning. It is the only legislation which is

not usually timetabled in Parliament so it can be all night. I am hoping

we are not as late as we has been in previous years but I have a very

comfortable armchair in my office. Let's touch on the advice on

becoming strippers and escort agencies on a website supported by

the Welsh government. Are you surprised about that? It is not the

first time it has happened. There have been job advertised for lap

dances. We need it sure this does happen again. They should be a no

tolerance policy of any work of that sort anywhere on government