Browse content similar to 26/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:41. | :00:47. | |
Theresa May still has plenty on her plate, | :00:48. | :00:47. | |
not least a battle over Brexit in the Lords. | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
But after Thursday's by-election win in Copeland, | :00:51. | :00:51. | |
the Prime Minister looks stronger than ever. | :00:52. | :00:53. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's Labour saw off Ukip in this week's other by-election, | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
but losing to the Tories in a heartland seat leaves the party | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
The leader of Scottish Labour joins me live. | :00:59. | :01:08. | |
You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden! | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
of migration on Sweden, mocked for talking about the impact | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
And in the Midlands: blown away in the storm. | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
What now for UKIP, as Labour hold-on in Stoke Central? | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
In London, will the rise in council tax in all but four local | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
authorities be enough to alleviate the crisis in social care? | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
And joining me for all of that, three journalists who I'm pleased | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
to say have so far not been banned from the White House. | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
I've tried banning them from this show repeatedly, | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
but somehow they just keep getting past BBC security - it's Sam Coates, | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
We have had two crucial by-elections, the results last | :01:57. | :02:06. | |
Thursday night. It's now Sunday morning, where do they believe | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
British politics? I think it leaves British politics looking as if it | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
may go ahead without Ukip is a strong and robust force. It is | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
difficult to see from where we are now how Ukip rebuilds into a | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
credible vote winning operation. I think it looks unprofessional, the | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
campaign they fought in Stoke was clearly winnable because the margin | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
with which Labour held onto that seat was not an impressive one but | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
they put forward arguably the wrong candidate, it was messy and it's | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
hard to see where they go from here, particularly with the money problems | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
they have and even Nigel Farage saying he's fed up of the party. If | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
Isabel is right, if Ukip is no longer a major factor, you look at | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
the state of Labour and the Lib Dems coming from a long way behind | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
despite their local government by-election successes, Tories never | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
more dominant. I think Theresa May is in a fascinating situation. She's | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
the most powerful Prime Minister of modern times for now because she | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
faces no confident, formidable opposition. Unlike Margaret Thatcher | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
who in the 1980s, although she won landslides in the end, often looked | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
like she was in trouble. She was inferred quite often in the build-up | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
to the election. David Owen, Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams. And quite | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
often she was worried. At the moment Theresa May faces no formidable UK | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
opposition. However, she is both strong and fragile because her | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
agenda is Brexit, which I still think many have not got to grips | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
with in terms of how complex and training and difficult it will be | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
for her. Thatcher faced no equivalent to Brexit so she is both | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
strong, formidably strong because of the wider UK political context, and | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
very fragile. It is just when you think you have never been more | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
dominant you are actually at the most dangerous, what can possibly go | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
wrong? I think that the money of her MPs they haven't begun to think | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
through the practicalities of Brexit and she does have a working majority | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
of about 17 in the House of Commons so at any point she could be put | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
under pressure from really opposition these days is done by the | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
two wins inside the Conservative Party, either the 15 Europhiles or | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
the bigger group of about 60 Brexiteers who have continued to | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
operate as a united and disciplined force within the Conservative Party | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
to get their agenda on the table. Either of those wings could be | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
disappointed at any point in the next three and a half years and that | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
would put her under pressure. I wouldn't completely rule out Ukip | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
coming back. The reason Ukip lost in Stoke I think it's because at the | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
moment Theresa May is delivering pretty much everything Ukip figures | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
might want to see. We might find the phrase Brexit means Brexit quite | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
anodyne but I think she is convincing people she will press | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
ahead with their agenda and deliver the leave vote that people buy a | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
slim majority voted for. Should that change, should there be talk of | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
transition periods, shut the migration settlement not make people | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
happy, then I think Ukip risks charging back up the centre ground | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
and causing more problems in future. That could be a two year gap in | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
which Ukip would have to survive. As I said, Ukip is on our agenda for | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
today. Thursday was a big night | :05:45. | :05:46. | |
for political obsessives like us, with not one but two | :05:47. | :05:47. | |
significant by-elections, Ellie braved the wind and rain | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
to bring you this report. The clouds had gathered, | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
the winds blew at gale force. Was a change in the air, or just | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
a weather system called Doris? Voters in Stoke-on-Trent | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
were about to find out. It's here, a sports hall | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
on a Thursday night that the country's media reckon | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
is the true eye of the storm. Would Labour suffer a lightning | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
strike to its very heart, or would the Ukip threat proved | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
to be a damp squib? Everybody seems to think the result | :06:26. | :06:27. | |
in Stoke-on-Trent would be close, just as they did 150-odd miles away | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
in Copeland, where the Tories are counting on stealing another | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
Labour heartland seat. Areas of high pressure in both | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
places, and some strange sights. We knew this wasn't a normal | :06:39. | :06:46. | |
by-election, and to prove it there is the rapper, | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
Professor Green. Chart-toppers aside, | :06:50. | :06:51. | |
winner of Stoke-on-Trent hit parade was announced first, | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
where everyone was so excited the candidates didn't even make it | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
onto the stage for the result. And I do hereby declare | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
that the said Gareth Snell Nigel Farage has said that victory | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
here in Stoke-on-Trent But Ukip's newish leader | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
played down the defeat, insisting his party's | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
time would come. Are you going to stand again | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
as an MP or has this No doubt I will stand again, | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
don't worry about that. The politics of hope beat | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
the politics of fear. I think Ukip are the ones this | :07:31. | :07:39. | |
weekend who have got But a few minutes later, | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
it turned out Labour had Harrison, Trudy Lynn, | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
the Conservative Party That was more than 2,000 | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
votes ahead of Labour. What has happened here tonight | :07:52. | :08:03. | |
is a truly historic event. Labour were disappointed, | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
but determined to be optimistic At a point when we're 15 to 18 | :08:08. | :08:09. | |
points behind in the polls... The Conservatives within 2000 votes | :08:10. | :08:21. | |
I think is an incredible The morning after the night | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
before, the losing parties were licking their wounds | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
and their lips over breakfast. For years and years, | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
Ukip was Nigel Farage, That has now changed, | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
that era has gone. It's a new era, it is | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
a second age for us. So that needs to be | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
more fully embedded, it needs to be more defined, | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
you know, and that will We have to continue to improve | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
in seats where we have stood. As we have done here, | :08:54. | :09:02. | |
we've improved on our 2015 result, that's what important, | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
is that we are taking steps Can I be the first to come | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
here today to congratulate you on being elected the new MP | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
for Stoke on Trent Central. Jeremy Corbyn has just arrived | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
in Stoke to welcome his newest MP. Not sure he's going to | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
Copeland later though. Earlier in the day, the Labour | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
leader had made clear he'd considered and discounted some | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
theories about the party's Since you found out that you'd lost | :09:28. | :09:28. | |
a seat to a governing party for the first time | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
since the Falklands War, have you at any point this morning | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
looked in the mirror and asked yourself this question - | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
could the problem actually be me? In the end it was the Conservatives | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
who came out on top. No governing party has made | :09:47. | :09:54. | |
a gain at a by-election With the self-styled people's army | :09:55. | :09:56. | |
of Ukip halted in Stoke, and Labour's wash-out | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
here in Copeland... There's little chance of rain | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
on Theresa May's parade. In the wake of that loss in | :10:08. | :10:18. | |
Copeland, the Scottish Labour Party has been meeting for its spring | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
conference in the Yesterday, deputy leader Tom Watson | :10:22. | :10:23. | |
warned delegates that unless Labour took the by-election defeat | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
seriously, the party's devastation in Scotland could be repeated | :10:29. | :10:30. | |
south of the border. Well, I'm joined now | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
by the leader of Scottish Labour, Even after your party had lost | :10:34. | :10:49. | |
Copeland to the Tories and with Labour now trailing 16 points in the | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
UK polls, you claim to have every faith that Jeremy Corbyn would | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
absolutely win the general election. What evidence can you bring to | :10:58. | :11:05. | |
support that? There is no doubt the result in Copeland was disappointing | :11:06. | :11:07. | |
for the Labour Party and I think it's a collective feeling for | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
everyone within the Labour Party and I want to do what I can to turn | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
around the fortunes of our party. That's what I've committed to do | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
while I have been the Scottish Labour leader. This two years ago we | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
were down the mines so to speak in terms of losing the faith of working | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
class communities across the country, but we listened very hard | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
to the message voters are sending and responded to it. That's what I'm | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
committed to doing in Scotland and that's what Jeremy Corbyn is | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
committed to doing UK wide. The latest polls put Labour at 14% in | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
Scotland, the Tories at ten points ahead of you in Scotland, even | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
Theresa May is more popular than Jeremy Corbyn in Scotland. So I will | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
try again - why are you so sure Jeremy Corbyn could win a general | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
election? What I said when you are talking about Scotland is that I'm | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
the leader of the Scottish Labour Party and I take responsibility for | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
our policies here. Voters said very clearly after the Scottish | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
Parliament election that they didn't have a clear enough sense of what we | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
stood for so I have been advocating a very strong anti-austerity | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
platform, coming up with ideas of how we can oppose the cuts and | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
invest in our future. That is something Jeremy Corbyn also | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
supports but I've also made it clear this weekend that we are opposed to | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
a second independence referendum. I want to bring Scotland back together | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
by focusing on the future and that's why I have been speaking about the | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
federal solution for the UK. I know that Jeremy Corbyn shares that | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
ambition because he is backing the plans for a people's Constitutional | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
Convention. Yes, these are difficult times for the Scottish Labour Party | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
and UK family, but I have a plan in place to turn things around. It will | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
take time though. I'm still not sure why you are so sure the Labour party | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
can win but let me come onto your plan. You want a UK wide | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
Constitutional Convention and that lead to a new Federalist settlement. | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
Is it the policy of the Labour Shadow Cabinet in Westminster to | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
carve England into federal regions? What we support at a UK wide level | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
is the people's constitutional convention. I have been careful to | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
prescribe what I think is in the best interests of Scotland but not | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
to dictate to other parts of the UK what is good for them, that's the | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
point of the people's constitutional convention. You heard Tom Watson say | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
there has to be a UK wide conversation about power, who has it | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
and how it is exercised across England. England hasn't been part of | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
this devolution story over the last 20 years, it is something that | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
happened between Scotland and London or Wales and London. No wonder | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
people in England feel disenfranchised from that. What | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
evidence can you bring to show there is any appetite in England for an | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
English federal solution to England, to carve England into federal | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
regions? Have you spoken to John Prescott about this? He might tell | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
you some of the difficulties. There's not even a debate about that | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
here, Kezia Dugdale, it is fantasy. I speak to John Prescott regularly. | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
What there is a debate about is the idea the world is changing so fast | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
that globalisation is taking jobs away from communities in the | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
north-east, that many working class communities feel left behind, that | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
Westminster feels very far away and the politicians within it feel | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
remote in part of the establishment. People are fed up with power being | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
exercised somewhere else, that's where I think federalism comes in | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
because it's about bringing power closer to people and in many ways | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
it's forced on us because of Brexit. We know the United Kingdom is | :15:01. | :15:08. | |
leaving the European Union so we have to talk about the repatriation | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
of those powers from Brussels to Britain. I want many of those powers | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
to go to the Scottish parliament but where should they go in the English | :15:15. | :15:16. | |
context? It is not as things currently stand the policy of the | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
English Labour Party to carve England into federal regions, | :15:21. | :15:21. | |
correct? It is absolutely the policy of the | :15:22. | :15:31. | |
UK Labour Party to support the people's Constitutional convention | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
to examining these questions. I think it is really important. You're | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
promising the Scottish people a federal solution, and you have not | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
even squared your own party for a federal solution in England. That is | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
not true. The UK Labour Party is united on this. I am going to | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
Cardiff next month to meet with Carwyn Jones and various leaders. | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
United on a federal solution? You know as well as I know it is not | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
united on a federal solution. We will have a conversation about power | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
in this country. It is not united on that | :16:07. | :16:29. | |
issue? This is the direction of travel. It is what you heard | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
yesterday from Sadiq Khan, from Tom Watson, when you hear from people | :16:34. | :16:35. | |
like Nick Forbes who lead Newcastle City Council and Labour's Local | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
Government Association. There is an appetite for talking about power. | :16:39. | :16:40. | |
Talking is one thing. We need to have this conversation across the | :16:41. | :16:42. | |
whole of the United Kingdom, to have a reformed United Kingdom. It is a | :16:43. | :16:44. | |
conversation you're offering Scotland, not the policy. Let's come | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
onto the labour made of London. He was in power for your conference. He | :16:48. | :16:49. | |
wrote in the record yesterday, there is no difference between Scottish | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
nationalism and racism. Would you like this opportunity to distance | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
yourself from that absurd claim? I think that Sadiq Khan was very clear | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
yesterday that he was not accusing the SNP of racism. What he was | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
saying clearly is that nationalism by its very nature divides people | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
and communities. That is what I said in my speech yesterday. I am fed up | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
living in a divided and fractured country and society. Our politics is | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
forcing is constantly to pick sides, whether you're a no, leave a remain, | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
it brings out the worst in our politicians and politics. All the | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
consensus we find in the grey areas is lost. That is why am standing | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
under a banner that together we are stronger. We have to come up with | :17:32. | :17:46. | |
ideas and focus on the future. That is why I agree with Sadiq Khan. He | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
said quite clearly in the Daily Record yesterday, and that the last | :17:51. | :17:52. | |
minute he adapted his speech to your conference yesterday, to try and | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
reduce the impact, that there was no difference between Scottish | :17:56. | :17:57. | |
nationalism and racism. Your colleague, and Sarwar, said that | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
even after he had tried to introduce the caveats, all forms of | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
nationalism rely on creating eyes and them. Let's call it for what it | :18:06. | :18:13. | |
is. So you are implying that the Scottish Nationalists are racist. | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
Would you care to distance yourself from that absurd claim? I utterly | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
refute that that is what Sadiq Khan said. I would never suggest that the | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
SNP are an inherently racist party. That does is a disservice. He did | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
not see it. What he did say, however, is that nationalism is | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
divisive. You know that better than anyone. I see your Twitter account. | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
Regularly your attack for the job you do as a journalist. Politics in | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
Scotland is divided on. I do not want to revisit that independence | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
question again for that reason. As leader of the Labour Party, I want | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
to bring our country back together, appeal to people who voted yes and | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
no. That banner, together we are stronger, that is where the answers | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
lie in defaulters can be found. If in response to the Mayor of London, | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
your colleague says, let's call it out for what it is, what is he | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
referring to if he is not implying that national symbol is racist? -- | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
and that nationalism is racist? He is saying that it leads to divisive | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
politics. The Labour Party has always advocated that together we | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
are stronger. Saying something is divisive is very different from | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
saying something is racist. That is what the Mayor of London said. That | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
is what your colleague was referring to. He did not. You would really | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
struggle to quote that from the Mayor of London. He talked about | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
being divided by race. What does that mean? I think he was very clear | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
that he was talking about divided politics. There is an appetite the | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
length and breadth of the country to end that divisive politics. That is | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
what I stand for, focusing on the future, bringing people back | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
together, concentrating on what the economy might look like in 20 years' | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
time in coming up with ideas to tackle it today. Thank you for | :20:12. | :20:12. | |
joining us. Thursday's win for Labour | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
in Stoke-on-Trent Central gave some relief to Jeremy Corbyn, | :20:15. | :20:16. | |
but for Ukip leader and defeated Stoke candidate Paul Nuttall | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
there were no consolation prizes. I'm joined now by Mr Nuttall's | :20:20. | :20:21. | |
principal political Welcome to the programme. Good | :20:22. | :20:31. | |
morning. How long will Paul Nuttall survivors Ukip leader, days, weeks, | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
months? You are in danger of not seeing the wood for the trees. Ukip | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
was formed in 1993 with the express purpose, much mocked, of getting | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
Britain out of the European Union. Under the brilliant leadership of | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
Nigel Farage, we were crucial in forcing a vacuous Prime Minister to | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
make a referendum promise he did not want to give. With our friends in | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
Fort leave and other organisations. Mac we know that. Get to the answer. | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
We helped to win that referendum. The iteration of Ukip at the moment | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
that we're in, the primary purpose, we are the guard dog of Brexit. | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
Viewed through that prism, the Stoke by-election was a brilliant success. | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
A brilliant success? We had the Tory candidate that had pumped out | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
publicity for Remain, for Cameron Bradley, preaching the gospel of | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
Brexit. We had a Labour candidate and we know what he really felt | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
about Brexit, preaching the Gospel according to Brexit. You lost. Well | :21:35. | :21:36. | |
the by-election was going on, we had the Labour Party in the House of | :21:37. | :21:53. | |
Commons pass the idea of trickling Article 50 by a landslide. Are | :21:54. | :21:55. | |
passionate thing, the thing that 35,000 Ukip members care about the | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
most, it is an extraordinary achievement. I am very proud. What | :21:59. | :22:00. | |
would you have described as victory as? If we could have got Paul | :22:01. | :22:02. | |
Nuttall into the House of Commons, that would have been a fantastic | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
cherry on the top. Losing was an extraordinary achievement? Many Ukip | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
supporters the Stoke was winnable, but Paul Nuttall's campaign was | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
marred by controversy, Tory voters refuse to vote tactically for Ukip | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
to beat Labour, his campaign, Mr Nuttall is to blame for not winning | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
what was a winnable seat? I do not see that at all. This is | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
counterintuitive, but Jeremy Corbyn did do one thing that made it more | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
difficult for us to win. Fantasy. That was to take Labour into a | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
Brexit position formerly. Just over 50 Labour MPs had voted against | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
triggering Article 50. In political terms, we have intimidated the | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
Labour Party into backing Brexit. How much good is it doing you? It | :22:54. | :22:55. | |
comes to the heart of the problem your party faces. | :22:56. | :23:12. | |
You're struggling to win Tory Eurosceptic voters. For the moment, | :23:13. | :23:14. | |
they seem happy with Theresa May. Stoke shows you're not winning | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
Labour Brexit voters either. If you cannot get the solution Tolisso | :23:18. | :23:18. | |
labour, where does your Broad come from? In terms of the by-election, | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
it came very early for Paul. I'm talking about the future. We have a | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
future agenda, and ideological argument with Jeremy Corbyn's Labour | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
Party, which is wedded to the notion of global citizenship and does not | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
recognise the nation state. We know he spent Christmas sitting around | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
campfires with Mexican Marxist dreaming of global government. We | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
believe in the nation state. We believe that the patriotic working | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
class vote will be receptive to that. Your Broad went down by 9% in | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
Cortland. In Copeland we were squeezed. In Stoke, we were unable | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
to squeeze the Tories, who are on a high. Our agenda is that social | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
solidarity is important but we arrange it in this country by nation | :24:03. | :24:05. | |
and community. We want an immigration system that is not only | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
reducing... We know what you want. I do not think people do. You had a | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
whole by-election to tell people and they did not vote for you and. When | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
Nigel Farage said it was fundamental that you were winner in Stoke, he | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
was wrong? Nigel chooses his own words. I would not rewrite them. It | :24:25. | :24:32. | |
would be a massive advantage to Ukip to have a leader in the House of | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
Commons in time to reply to the budget, Prime Minister's questions | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
and all of that. But we have taken the strategic view that we will | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
fight the Labour Party for the working class vote. It is also true | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
that the Conservatives will make a pitch for the working class vote | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
might as well. All three parties have certain advantages and | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
disadvantages. As part of that page, Nigel Farage said that your leader, | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
Paul Nuttall, should have taken a clear, by which I assume he meant | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
tough, line on immigration. Do you agree? He took a tough line on | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
immigration. He developed that idea at our party conference in the | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
spring. Nigel Farage did not think so? Nigel Farage made his speech | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
before Paul Nuttall made his speech. He said this in the aftermath of the | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
result. Once we have freedom to control and Borders, Paul wants to | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
set up an immigration system that includes an aptitude test, do you | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
have skills that the British economy needs, but also, and attitudes test, | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
do you subscribe to core British values such as gender equality and | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
freedom of expression? We will be making these arguments. It is | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
certainly true that Paul's campaign was thrown off course by, | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
particularly something that we knew the Labour Party had been preparing | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
to run, the smear on the untruths, the implications about Hillsborough. | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
If you knew you should have anticipated it. Alan Banks, he helps | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
to bankroll your party, he said that Mr Nuttall needs to toss out the | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
Tory cabal in Europe, by which he means Douglas Carswell, Neil | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
Hamilton. Should they be stripped of their membership? Of course not. As | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
far as I knew, Alan Banks was a member of the Conservative Party | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
formally. I do not know who this Tory cabal is supposed to be. He | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
says that your party is more like a jumble sale than a political party. | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
He says that the party should make him chairman or they will work. What | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
do you see to that? He has made that statement several times over many | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
months, including if you do not throw out your only MP. Douglas | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
Carswell has managed to win twice under Ukip colours. Should Tibi | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
chairman? I think we have an excellent young chairman at the | :26:52. | :26:58. | |
moment. He is doing a good job. The idea that Leave.EU was as smooth | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
running brilliant machine, that does not sit with the facts as I | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
understand them. Suzanne Evans says it would be no great loss for Ukip | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
if Mr Banks walked out, severed his ties and took his money elsewhere. | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
Is she right. I am always happy people who want to give money and | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
support your party want to stay in the party. The best donors donate | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
and do not seek to dictate. If they are experts in certain fields, | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
people should listen to their views but to have a daughter telling the | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
party leader who should be party chairman, that is a nonstarter. You | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
have described your existing party chairman is excellent. He said it | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
could be 20 years before Ukip wins by-election. Is he being too | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
optimistic? There is a general election coming up in the years' | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
time. We will be aiming to win seats in that. Before that, we will be the | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
guard dog for Brexit, to make sure this extraordinary achievement of a | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
little party... You are guard dog without a kennel, you cannot get | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
seat? We're keeping the big establishment parties to do the will | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
of the people. If we achieve nothing else at all, that will be a | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
magnificent achievement. Thank you very much. | :28:14. | :28:15. | |
Sweden isn't somewhere we talk about often | :28:16. | :28:16. | |
should because this week it was pulled into | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
the global spotlight, thanks | :28:21. | :28:21. | |
Last weekend, Mr Trump was mocked for referring to an incident that | :28:22. | :28:30. | |
had occurred last night in Sweden as a result of the country's open | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
Critics were quick to point out that no such incident had occurred | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
and Mr Trump later clarified on Twitter and he was talking | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
about a report he had watched on Fox News. | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
But as if to prove he was onto something, | :28:44. | :28:45. | |
next day a riot broke out in a Stockholm suburb | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
with a large migrant population, following unrest in such areas | :28:49. | :28:50. | |
So what has been Sweden's experience of migration? | :28:51. | :29:00. | |
In 2015, a record 162,000 people claimed asylum there, the second | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
That number dropped to 29,000 in 2016 after the country introduced | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
border restrictions and stopped offering permanent | :29:10. | :29:11. | |
Tensions have risen, along with claims of links to crime, | :29:12. | :29:19. | |
although official statistics do not provide evidence of a refugee driven | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
Nigel Farage defended Mr Trump, claiming this week that migrants | :29:23. | :29:30. | |
have led to a dramatic rise in sexual offences. | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
Although the country does have the highest reported | :29:34. | :29:35. | |
rate of rape in Europe, Swedish authorities say recent rises | :29:36. | :29:37. | |
were due to changes to how rape and sex crimes are recorded. | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
Aside from the issue of crime, Sweden has struggled | :29:44. | :29:45. | |
Levels of inequality between natives and migrants when it comes | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
Unemployment rates are three times higher for foreign-born workers | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
We're joined now by Laila Naraghi, she's a Swedish MP from the | :29:55. | :30:07. | |
governing Social Democratic Party, and by the author and | :30:08. | :30:09. | |
The Swedish political establishment was outraged by Mr Trump's remarks, | :30:10. | :30:25. | |
pointing to a riot that hadn't taken place, then a few nights later | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
serious riots did break out in a largely migrant suburb of Stockholm | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
so he wasn't far out, was he? I think he was far out because he is | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
misleading the public with how he uses these statistics. I think it is | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
important to remember that the violence has decreased in Sweden for | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
the past 20 years and research shows there is no evidence that indicate | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
that immigration leads to crime and so I think it is far out. The social | :30:52. | :30:59. | |
unrest in these different areas is not because of their ethical | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
backgrounds of these people living there but more about social economic | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
reasons. OK, no evidence migrants are responsible for any kind of | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
crime? This story reminds me after what happened to the Charlie Hebdo | :31:15. | :31:21. | |
attacks in Paris when also a Fox News commentator said something that | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
was outlandish about Paris and the Mayor of Paris threatened to sue Fox | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
News, saying you are making our city look bad. It's a bit like that | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
because the truth on this lies between Donald Trump on the Swedish | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
authorities on this. Sweden and Swedish government is very reluctant | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
to admit any downsides of its own migration policy and particularly | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
the migration it hard in 2015 but there are very obvious downsides | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
because Sweden is not a country that needs a non-skilled labour force | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
which doesn't speak Swedish. What was raised as the matter of | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
evidence, what is the evidence? First of all if I can say so the | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
rape statistics in Sweden that have been cited are familiar with the | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
rape statistics across other countries that have seen similar | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
forms of migration. Danish authorities and the Norwegian | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
authorities have recorded a similar thing. It is not done by ethnicity | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
so we don't know. And this is part of the problem. It is again a lot of | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
lies and rumours going about. When it is about for example rape, it is | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
difficult to compare the statistics because in Sweden for example many | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
crimes that in other countries are labelled as bodily harm or assault | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
are in Sweden labelled as rape. Also how it is counted because if a woman | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
goes to the police and reports that her husband or boyfriend has raped | :32:54. | :33:01. | |
her, and done it every night for one year, in Sweden that is counted as | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
365 offences. Something is going wrong, I look at the recent news | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
from Sweden. Six Afghan child refugees committed suicide in the | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
last six months, unemployment among recent migrants now five times | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
higher than among non-migrants. We have seen gang violence in Malmo | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
where a British child was killed by a grenade, rioting in Stockholm. | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
Police in Sweden say there are 53 areas of the country where it is now | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
dangerous to patrol. Something has gone wrong. Let me get back to what | :33:35. | :33:41. | |
I think is the core of this debate if I may and that is the right for | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
people fleeing war and political persecution to seek asylum, that is | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
a human right. In Sweden we don't think we can do everything, but we | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
want to live up to our obligation, every country has an obligation to | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
receive asylum seekers. But you have changed your policy on that because | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
having taken 163,001 year alone, you have then closed your borders, I | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
think very wisely, closed the border which means 10,000 people per day at | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
one point were walking from Denmark in to Malmo, you rightly changed | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
that so he realised whatever ones aspirations in terms of asylum, it | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
sometimes meets reality and Sweden is meeting the reality of this. | :34:23. | :34:29. | |
Let's respond to that. We are not naive, we know we cannot do | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
everything but we want to try to do our share as we think other | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
countries also need to do their share. But let me say that, if you | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
look at what the World Economic Forum is saying about our country | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
they show we are in the top of many rankings, the best country to live | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
in, to age in, to have children in, to start into -- to start | :34:49. | :34:57. | |
enterprise. Why have you not been so good at integrating migrants? The | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
unemployment rate is five times higher among migrants than | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
non-migrants and that's the highest ratio of any country in the EU and | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
the OECD, why have you not been able to integrate the people you have | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
brought in for humanitarian reasons? I'm sure there are things we can do | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
much better of course but if you look for example at the immigration | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
that came in the 90s from the Balkans, they are well integrated | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
and contributing to our society. They are starting enterprises and | :35:32. | :35:33. | |
working in different fields of society, and they help our country. | :35:34. | :35:41. | |
Why have they not got jobs, the migrants that have come in? It takes | :35:42. | :35:48. | |
time. In the 90s we managed it and I'm sure we can do it again. Can I | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
put this into some context, it is clear Sweden has got problems as a | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
result of the number of migrants that come in, whether it is as bad | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
as Mr Trump and others make out is another matter, but perhaps I can | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
put it into context. Malmo, which has been at the centre of many of | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
these migrant problems, its homicide rate is three per hundred thousand. | :36:10. | :36:16. | |
Chicago, 28 per 100,000. It may have problems but they are not huge. No, | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
they are pretty huge and I think they will grow. The Balkan refugees | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
into Sweden in the 90s did bring a lot of problems and Sweden did for | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
the first time see serious ethnic gang rivalries. There was an upsurge | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
in gang-related violence that has gone on since. The situation in | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
Malmo in particular is exaggerated by some people, there's no doubt | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
about that, I have been there many times and it is undoubtedly | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
exaggerated by some, it is also vastly unpersuaded by the Swedish | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
authorities. -- understated. In 2010, one in ten Jews in Malmo | :36:55. | :37:04. | |
registered some form of attack on them. It got so bad that in 2010 | :37:05. | :37:14. | |
people offered to escort Jews... You have had a good say and I have got | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
to be fair here, what do you say to that, Laila Naraghi? There are | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
people trying to frame our country in a certain way to push their own | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
agenda. I regret that President Trump is trying to slander our | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
country. But what about the specific point on Malmo? If you speak to | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
people in Malmo and also to different congregations, they say | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
they are working together with the authorities to improve this. I say | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
again, there are a lot of people trying to spread rumours and lies. | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
Your situation is very like the situation we had in Britain when we | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
have these situations in Rotherham and elsewhere. 1400 girls were raped | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
in Rotherham before police even admitted it was going on. That | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
happened in Britain in the last decade, a similar phenomenon. An | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
upsurge in particularly sexual and other forms of violence and then | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
total denial by an entire political class is now something that is | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
happening in Sweden. I see it in Swedish authorities and the denial | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
that comes up and the desire to laugh and dismiss Trump but he's not | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
answer nothing and that's a painful thing for any society to want to | :38:28. | :38:34. | |
admit to. There are number of Swedes who think the establishment is | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
covering up the true statistics, that you don't break crime down by | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
ethnic crimes, people are suspicious of the centre-left and centre-right | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
parties now in Sweden. There is no denial and no cover-up. This is what | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
I'm speaking about when I say people are trying to frame it in a certain | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
way. The social unrest is not because of the ethnical background | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
of the people living there but rather because of different | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
socioeconomics conditions. There is no research that shows | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
immigration... But you don't do the research into it. Swedish | :39:13. | :39:15. | |
authorities deliberately ensure you cannot carry out such research and | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
after the attacks in Cologne in 2015 it was the first time then that the | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
Swedish authorities and press admitted that similar sexual | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
molestation have been going on for years in Sweden. Is it right to | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
think, given the problem is maybe not as bad as many people make out | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
but clearly problems, given these problems, is the age of mass asylum | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
seeking for Sweden over? You have cut the numbers by 80% coming in | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
last year compared with 2015, is it over while you concentrate on | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
getting right the people that you have there already? We want to do | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
our share, we have done a lot and now we are concentrating of course | :39:58. | :40:00. | |
on integration and making sure people get a job, and also | :40:01. | :40:14. | |
on big welfare investments because it's important to remember that for | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
eight years Sweden were governed by a government that prioritised big | :40:18. | :40:19. | |
tax cuts instead of investment in welfare. It may just not work. I am | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
grateful to you both, we have to leave it there. | :40:24. | :40:24. | |
It's coming up to 11:40am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :40:28. | :40:29. | |
Hello again. if the Government is facing defeat | :40:30. | :40:44. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the Midlands. | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
But after Storm Doris, he was blown right out of it. | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
An ill wind for Paul Nuttall puts just enough into Labour's | :40:54. | :41:01. | |
sails to see them home in Stoke Central. | :41:02. | :41:03. | |
But who really is making the political weather after those | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
Amanda Milling is the Conservative MP for Cannock Chase. | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
And Rob Marris is the Labour MP for Wolverhampton South West. | :41:11. | :41:17. | |
Good to have you both with us here today. | :41:18. | :41:19. | |
And I'll also be joined here by Stoke Central's | :41:20. | :41:21. | |
new MP Gareth Snell, in a minute or two. | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
They've had a couple of days to assess those by-elections | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
Two very different campaigns in very different places. | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
But are there at least some common threads we can draw | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
I will make a stab at it. The very point any Parliament when any | :41:37. | :41:49. | |
opposition party needs to be punching through as a good | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
alternative Government. It is the alternative Government. It is | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
Conservatives in Stoke and Copeland Conservatives in Stoke and Copeland | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
who are gaining ground. They are gaining ground. -- they are not. The | :42:01. | :42:07. | |
result and Copeland was very disappointing. The result in Stoke | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
was uplifting. I think we need to put them into context and the | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
context is the political scene in this country is very volatile at the | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
moment, and in the context that too self-centred MPs resigned early and | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
the Electric, not surprisingly, did not like that in both those | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
incumbents were Labour. Tom Watson says things need to change but she | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
was not specific about how they need to change. How do you think we need | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
to change? I think we need to connect to the electrode that shows | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
we are not part of the establishment and we have alternative views that | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
are going to meet their needs and demands better. At the moment we are | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
not winning that argument. Let me put to you, Amanda, what we are not | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
seeing is any upsurge in working-class Tory support. What we | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
are seeing there is a stately labour board. I would dispute that. We had | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
excellent results in both places. When you look at Stoke, we increased | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
our share of the vote. We also have to remember that this was billed as | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
a two horse race with Labour versus Ukip. It should not have been any | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
question of whether Labour would win a seat like this. Ukip made no | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
inroads and we increased our share of the vote. At a time when we are | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
in Government, Government is to not usually do well in by-elections, | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
there is a lot of positives to take from this. I was up there on the | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
doorstep and a lot of people well, what the Prime Minister is doing. We | :43:46. | :43:47. | |
will pursue this further of course. As by-elections go, | :43:48. | :43:49. | |
Stoke Central had it all. The advance billing headlined | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
a two-horse race, with Labour on the health service, | :43:54. | :43:55. | |
and Ukip on Brexit. But almost unnoticed, | :43:56. | :43:57. | |
the Conservatives were improving all the time, while Ukip | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
were losing ground. Could a three-horse race even | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
produce a photo-finish? No wonder there are flashing images | :44:08. | :44:09. | |
in Rob Mayor's commentary. Can I be the first to come | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
here today to congratulate you on becoming the new MP | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
for Stoke-on-Trent Central. After a turbulent by-election | :44:16. | :44:17. | |
campaign Jeremy Corbyn breezed into Stoke Central on Friday ducking | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
questions about failures elswhere. Instead, he was keen to accentuate | :44:22. | :44:28. | |
the positive in the Potteries. Above all it was a message that | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
hope triumphs over fear. And with that he was gone - | :44:35. | :44:47. | |
the media pack left The night before, tensions had been | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
high as the ballot boxes arrived for the count in what was touted | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
as an era-defining post-Brexit Gareth Snell has been | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
an outstanding candidate. He is a local man and proud | :44:59. | :45:11. | |
and he is just the person that we would want to see go to London | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
to speak up for Stoke. We still feel optimistic | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
going into this current Looks like it is going | :45:19. | :45:20. | |
to be close, that the If we do not win on the night, | :45:21. | :45:31. | |
the party has rallied numbers we have never seen | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
before at a by-election. But with gale force winds | :45:37. | :45:38. | |
from Doris contributing to turnout of just 38% it soon became | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
clear that Labour had The bruising tone of the campaign | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
continued, even after Labour's We have cut their majority in half | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
and we have unified Paul Nuttall said in a press | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
conference only last would not be coming back to | :45:52. | :46:06. | |
Stoke-on-Trent and that is one promise I am | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
going to hold him to. The view on the street | :46:14. | :46:15. | |
was that its time to move on. He should be looking | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
after the people of Stoke-on-Trent and the interests | :46:20. | :46:21. | |
and trying to create jobs, trying to The national health | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
in this area, which he could get in and then has | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
the cheek to say that it is only I mean, how disrespectful | :46:29. | :46:39. | |
of the local people can you be? For Ukip, Stoke was a major set-back | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
to its strategy of replacing Labour in its northern | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
and midlands heartlands. For Labour, a rare break | :46:47. | :46:47. | |
in the clouds around Jeremy Corbyn's embattled leadership - | :46:48. | :46:50. | |
the big question though Rob Mayor on a dramatic, emotional, | :46:51. | :46:52. | |
election night which none of us who were there will forget | :46:53. | :47:01. | |
in a hurry. Has it sunk in yet? Not quite. I | :47:02. | :47:14. | |
shall go to London tomorrow and then it might seem real. You said when | :47:15. | :47:21. | |
you were re-elected to Newcastle underlying council, it had nothing | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
to do with Jeremy Corbyn. Does your success had anything to do with | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
Jeremy Corbyn? The success at this election was the result of a cold | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
labour movement. The Labour Party, the trade unions and hundreds of | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
volunteers akin to the city to help. You are joining a Labour Party that | :47:40. | :47:46. | |
is not a happy ship and one of the reasons is that the unhappiness | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
about Labour's progress under Jeremy Corbyn. I recall on Friday night, it | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
had to be dragged out of you any support for Jeremy Corbyn. I am not | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
going to go around that circle again. We have just won a | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
by-election in Stoke-on-Trent that many people said we were going to | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
lose. You struggled in one of your heartlands. I do not think we | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
struggled. We have a majority and our vote held up. We connected the | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
thousands of people over a period of four weeks. We will take that work | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
forward. There is still work for the Labour Party to do across the | :48:28. | :48:29. | |
country. The turnout was quite low country. The turnout was quite low | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
forward. I believe we will go on to forward. I believe we will go on to | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
win the next general election and have a Labour Government. What would | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
you say to the regional secretary of the Unite union, who is campaigning | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
for general secretary, and he says Domi Corbyn and Kent McCluskey need | :48:46. | :48:53. | |
to take all that at themselves? -- Jeremy Corbyn and chemical skin. He | :48:54. | :49:01. | |
is fighting a contest that is separate from the Labour Party. -- | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
Ken McCluskey. It is the movement Ken McCluskey. It is the movement | :49:05. | :49:11. | |
that... We need to emulate the successes across the country and | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
address the problems. Labour's concentration on great public | :49:16. | :49:21. | |
services, on the evidence of these elections plan a is not working. | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
What is planned be? We won the by-election. In Copeland, there was | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
an ease because of a misunderstanding about our position | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
on nuclear power generation. For many people, I can well relate to | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
this, we seem to be faced in Copeland with the choice of voting | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
for their jobs and putting further hospitals. Not surprisingly the | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
voted for their jobs. Isn't the voted for their jobs. Isn't the | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
truth of this that you are relieved to see Gareth Snell sitting here | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
rather than Paul Nuttall? I would like to take the opportunity to | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
congratulate Gareth. A fellow Staffordshire MP I look forward to | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
working with Gareth. We do need to look at this in terms of going back | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
to the point that Gareth won but he did not win big and his share of the | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
vote was reduced and the majority has been reduced. By the moment | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
let's pause it. We will come back in a moment. | :50:21. | :50:23. | |
If they can't win in, what they themselves called | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
"the Capital of Brexit", where can they win? | :50:28. | :50:29. | |
And where does Paul Nuttall go from here? | :50:30. | :50:31. | |
One of our three Ukip MEPs, Bill Etheridge joins | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
us now from Dudley, where he is also a councillor. | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
I've never known an election where so much attention has | :50:39. | :50:40. | |
been paid to the party that finished second. | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
Do you think you could have done better if you had stood there in | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
Stoke Central? I do not think it is about the candidate. I think Paul is | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
an excellent man and excellent candidate and excellent leader. We | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
let ourselves down badly on the messaging. I think we let our | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
activist Darren who travelled from all corners of the United Kingdom to | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
get there, only to find the weakest and least relevant message. I looked | :51:10. | :51:16. | |
and thought, who is the Labour Party? The messaging was so wrong. | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
That is presumably why you are calling for the advisers behind this | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
campaign to be sacked. To be clear, let's get this clear, is this or is | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
it not recorded reference should Paul Nuttall consider his position | :51:33. | :51:39. | |
as leader? No, I am loyal to Paul Nuttall. He is the right man to lead | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
the party but there are people within the party who have a desire | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
to drag us to the left and the centre ground, where there are | :51:48. | :51:54. | |
people there. NIgel Farage said that Ukip was radical or nothing. The | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
fact that people... If they do not like the way that Ukip goes, the | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
need to find another party and Douglas Carswell, I have made it | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
very clear that he should be removed from the party. He is your only MP | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
at Westminster. You are a one man band. How can you call for that one | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
MP to have the whip removed? I gather the concerns you have is | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
about something he said on question Time on Thursday night? Well, let's | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
put it this way, it is another straw onto the hall deal of straws on the | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
camel's back. When it comes down to the night of this crucial election | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
where activists and members of Ukip from all around the country had worn | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
them self out, for his smirking appearance on question Time, talking | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
about Ukip as if it were some other party and telling us we need to | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
examine our principles and change them. I suggest if he does not like | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
those principles and values, go to a party that suits his own values and | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
leave us to plough on as being eradicated and Revolutionary party | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
in making changes. That is what we made our name is doing. I heard him | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
on that programme saying the party was not trusted. Should he have the | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
whip withdrawn for telling the truth? No, I do not mind people | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
having different opinions within the party. I think it is healthy and we | :53:19. | :53:20. | |
are a broad church of people. When are a broad church of people. When | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
it comes down to be just of what he was seeing them, and on other | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
occasions, the sneering reference to NIgel Farage's legacy, as if NIgel | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
Farage had done something wrong. Then to go on and say that our | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
principles are wrong. If you believe the core values of the party are not | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
right, you should not be in it. Though Etheridge, thank you very | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
much for joining us this Sunday morning. -- Bill Etheridge. You said | :53:48. | :53:55. | |
that Paul Nuttall would not be welcome in your constituency. Would | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
you welcome him to Stoke Central? He is the MEP who represents | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
Stoke-on-Trent. If he wants to come to Stoke on Trent, I will show him | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
why his message about our city is wrong. I would be happy to point in | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
the right direction. Let me put something that came through to me | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
clearly when talking to people around the city, it is a sense of | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
disillusionment and trust. We were about that when talking about | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
Douglas Carswell. My sense is that extends to all puttable parties, | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
people think they look at jobs and housing issues and whoever you vote | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
for, you just get the same old and same old. That is a disillusionment | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
there. I think that is a fair comment. Turnout in this by-election | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
was low. That is not something that I am content with. This is a problem | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
across the political spectrum. Politicians need to find a way of | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
engaging with people on the issues that matter to them, rather than the | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
issues we want to talk about. My by-election was accused of focusing | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
on the NHS and public services. We talked a lot about Brexit and issues | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
that are outside of our traditional comfort zone. When we did that | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
people resonated. You have said that the deficit at Stoke Royal is your | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
number one issue. It is most pressing and that is why. ?100 | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
wait. What can you do about it as a wait. What can you do about it as a | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
backbench MP? I am not just a backbench MP. There are three of us | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
serving Stoke. The Prime Minister came to Stoke on Trent. She was told | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
about it directly and what I will be doing now when I get to London, I | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
will be talking to rob and to Ruth and finding out what we're going to | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
do to get the money that that hospital needs. That is a whole job | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
of work that needs to be done on Stoke and that is what I will be | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
focusing on. Are we seeing politics driven more to the extremes? We have | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
Tories now as the party of hard Brexit. We have the Labour Party | :56:01. | :56:09. | |
under a left-wing leader. We do moderate voters go? I would counter | :56:10. | :56:17. | |
that. I do not believe that the Conservatives are the extreme. What | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
the Prime Minister has been very clear about is that she wants to | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
rebalance our economy. She wants to ensure that we stand up for | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
hard-working, ordinary people. That is the real centre ground. I think | :56:32. | :56:37. | |
there is a lot of common ground and Mrs May is making Labour Party | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
ideas. There is a convergence towards the centre. The outlier is | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
Ukip and one has to ask after the Brexit wrote last year, what is the | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
point in Ukip? I had the pleasure on Friday afternoon on sitting on the | :56:53. | :56:59. | |
drive time show where the former MP was the guest and she said one of | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
the fascinations for her was working across party lines with people on | :57:04. | :57:10. | |
hospitals. You are both Staffordshire MPs. Will you adopt | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
the same approach on local issues? Absolutely. I remember when he was a | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
councillor in Newcastle and did great work they are. One of the | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
things I want to do is work with anybody who wants to support the | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
things I want to deliver on Stoke-on-Trent and that is the case. | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
Thank you Gareth for being with us today. | :57:31. | :57:33. | |
"Sustainability and Transformation Plans" propose radical surgery | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
BBC analysis shows deficits are rising to more than ?2 billion | :57:37. | :57:44. | |
in our part of the country alone, by 2020. | :57:45. | :57:46. | |
At least one hospital closure, and the downgrading of three local | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
And one leading health charity wants MPs to have "an honest | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
As Sarah Bishop explains, they may prefer to avoid one. | :57:56. | :58:03. | |
Seven areas of our region have published Sustainability | :58:04. | :58:05. | |
and Transformation Plans as part of a review by NHS England | :58:06. | :58:07. | |
to deliver ?22 billion of "efficiency savings" over | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
The plans have been analysed by the BBC. | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
In our region the key points include: | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
The possible closure of one of the five major hospitals | :58:20. | :58:21. | |
In Shropshire, emergency care could be centralised at either | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
An A unit is "likely" to close in Staffordshire at either Burton | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
And in Coventry and Warwickshire the A unit at nuneaton | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
Birmingham and Solihull's plan highlights the need for more home | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
births and a review of adult social care. | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
If nothing is done, the total funding gap will be a staggering | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
STPs emphasise treatment in the community, rather | :58:48. | :58:56. | |
One former Birmingham University Professor of | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
health policy urged politicians to make the tough decisions required. | :59:00. | :59:10. | |
Politicians need to get behind the NHS and this plan and to support | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
changes where thiere is good evidence that they will | :59:16. | :59:17. | |
That will not be easy, especially when there are changes to the | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
If politicians are reluctant to do that | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
then people will not get access to the high-quality, safe care that is | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
Not every hospital can provide the full range of services. | :59:29. | :59:33. | |
Difficult decisions have to be made and politicians need to be | :59:34. | :59:35. | |
In 2001, voters in the Wye Forest are elected | :59:36. | :59:45. | |
local Doctor Richard Taylor in a backlash | :59:46. | :59:47. | |
against closing services at | :59:48. | :59:48. | |
STPs could be a bitter pill if they are | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
A risk for politicians are scenes like these in a town near you. | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
And on top of the proposed cutbacks outlined in her report, | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
the closure of more than 400 community beds across Herefordshire, | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
Worcestershire and Staffordshire is also suggested in the STPs | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
Amanda, I do not remember anything in the Conservative manifesto as | :00:09. | :00:21. | |
dramatic as this on anything like this scale. Where is the | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
Government's mandate for it? This is about ensuring our health services | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
are designed locally. To be designed in light of the local needs. I think | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
it is also important to point out that at this point these are just | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
proposals and options. The public and representatives will have the | :00:45. | :00:46. | |
opportunity to feedback. In that opportunity to feedback. In that | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
talking about, he was emphatic that talking about, he was emphatic that | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
the community investment, the social care side of this, has to be in | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
place first before we get around to slashing hospital resources and so | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
on. That is the challenge for the Government. This is really | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
important. This is about looking at the health service. We need to look | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
at many ticket as well as acute services. In your video you talk | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
about the possibility of one of the A is in Staffordshire. I opposed | :01:19. | :01:27. | |
this. We will be having meetings to promote those points. If health and | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
social care are in crisis, as you party says they are, this is at the | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
door of other governments. You double the spending on NHS but | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
hospitals were becoming clinically and financially unsustainable. Part | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
of that was the advisers in north Staffordshire, which has been | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
continued. I think some of this is just a fantasy. It is more | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
rearranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic. The wasted money on a | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
rearrangement on the NHS on which they have no mandate. They have no | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
mandate for what they are proposing and the SDP is in the Black Country, | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
I do not know about Staffordshire, it took that MPs are locked out of | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
the process. That is not a good way to run a health service. -- FTPs. | :02:23. | :02:34. | |
There is a pressing timescale. It is not properly funded under Labour but | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
has got far worse in the last seven years, partly because the population | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
has aged in that time and the extra funding as Government has promised | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
for social care will more than be eaten up by the NHS contribution on | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
pensions. No extra staff were social care. Fairly brief on this, can this | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
be done during the time available? The deficit is increasing. Briefly, | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
if you will. We need to look at the NHS and the impact of an ageing | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
population and innovation in medicine. We need to make this work. | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
I must leave that they are. My thanks to Amanda | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
Milling and Rob Marris. Finally from me, the | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
Michelin-starred chef Glyn Purnell has put Birmingham | :03:18. | :03:18. | |
on the 'foody' map. Now he's asking if the new 'Metro | :03:19. | :03:20. | |
Mayor' can do the same What do the candidates | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
make of the role? How many voters even know there's | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
an election on at all? He'll have all the answers | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
in Inside Out, tomorrow This, though, is where | :03:32. | :03:33. | |
we rejoin Andrew Neil. Welcome back. Article 50, which | :03:34. | :03:54. | |
triggers the beginning of Britain leaving the European Union and start | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
negotiations, is winding its way through the Lords in this coming | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
week. Tarzan has made an intervention, let's just see the | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
headline from the Mail on Sunday. Lord Heseltine, Michael Heseltine, | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
my fightback starts here, he is going to defy Theresa May. I divide | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
one Prime Minister over the poll tax, I'm ready to defy this one in | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
the Lords over Brexit. There we go, that's going to happen this week. We | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
will see how far he gets. I don't think he will get very far, I don't | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
think Loyalist Tory MPs and Brexiteers are quaking in their | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
boots at the prospect of a rebellion led by Michael Heseltine. I sense | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
that many Tory MPs are already moving on to the next question about | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
Brexit, and the discussion over how much it will cost us to come out. | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
The fact they are already debating that suggests to me they feel things | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
will go fairly smoothly in terms of the legislation. When I spoke to the | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
Labour leader in the Lords last week on the daily politics, she said she | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
was going to push hard for the kind of amendments Lord has all-time is | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
talking about and they would bring that back to the Commons. But if the | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
Commons pinged it back to the Lords with the amendments taken out, she | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
made it clear that was the end of it. Is that right? That's about | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
right. This is probably really a large destruction. There will be to | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
micro issues that come up in the Lords, one is on the future of EU | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
nationals, that could be voted on as soon as this Wednesday, and then the | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
main vote in the Lords on a week on Tuesday, when there is this question | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
of what sort of vote will MPs and peers get at the end of the Brexit | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
process and that is what has all-time is talking about. He wants | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
to make sure there are guarantees in place. The kind of things peers are | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
looking for are pretty moderate and the Government have hinted they | :06:02. | :06:03. | |
could deliver on both of them already. But they are still not | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
prepared... Amber Rudd said they were not prepared... They may say | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
yes we are going to do that but they won't allow whatever that is to be | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
enshrined in the legislation. The question is whether we think this is | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
dancing on the head of a pin. The Government have already promised | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
something in the House of Commons, but will they write it down, I don't | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
think that's the biggest problem in the world. In a sense this is a | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
great magicians trick by Theresa May because it is not the most important | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
thing. The most important thing in Brexit is going on in those | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
committees behind closed doors when they are trying to work out what the | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
next migration system is for Britain and there are some interesting, | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
indeed toxic proposals, but at the moment Downing Street are happy to | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
let us talk about the constitutional propriety of what MPs are doing over | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
the next eight days. It seems to me the irony is that if we had a second | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
chamber that can claim some kind of democratic legitimacy, which the one | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
we have cannot, it would be able to cause the Government more trouble on | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
this, it would be more robust. Absolutely. I saw the interview we | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
did with the Labour Leader of the Lords, they are very conscious, of | :07:20. | :07:28. | |
the fact they are not elected and have limited powers. She was clear | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
to you they would not impede the timetable for triggering Article 50 | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
so we might get a bit of theatre, Michael Heseltine might deliver a | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
brilliant speech. It is interesting that Euroscepticism gun under | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
Margaret Thatcher in the Tory party but two offer senior ministers Ken | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
Clarke and Michael Heseltine are the most prominent opponents now but | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
they will change nothing at this point. She will have the space to | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
trigger Article 50 within her timetable. Let's move on. Let me | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
show you a picture tweeted by Nigel Farage. | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
That is Nigel Farage and a small group of people having dinner, and | :08:11. | :08:18. | |
within that small group of people is the president of the United States, | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
and it was taken in the last couple of days. This would suggest that if | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
he can command that amount of the President's time in a small group of | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
people, then he's actually rather close to the president. Make no | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
mistake about it, Nigel Farage is now to and fro Washington more | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
regularly than perhaps he is here. Hopefully that LBC programme is | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
recorded over in the state. He's not only close to the president but to a | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
series of people within the administration. That relationship | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
there is a remarkable one and one to keep an eye on. Will the main | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
government be tempted to tap into that relationship at any time or is | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
it just seething with anger? You can feel a ripple of discontentment over | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
this. We are in the middle of negotiating the state visit and the | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
sort of pomp and circumstance and what kind of greeting Britain should | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
give Donald Trump when he comes over later in the year. There is a great | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
deal of neurotic thought going into what that should look like, but one | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
of the most interesting things about our relationship with Donald Trump | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
is that there is a nervousness among some Cabinet ministers that we are | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
being seen to go too far, too fast with the prospect of a trade deal. | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
Even amongst some Brexiteer cabinet ministers, they worry we won't get a | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
very good trade deal with the US and we are tolerably placing a lot of | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
stalled by it. When we see the kind of deal they want to pitch with us | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
there might be some pulling back and that could be an awkward moment in | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
terms of our relationship, and no doubt Nigel at that term -- at that | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
point will accuse the UK of doing the dirty on Donald Trump. If there | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
was a deal, would they get it through the House of Commons? Nigel | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
Farage is having dinner with the president, not bad as a kind of | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
lifestyle but he's politically rootless, he won't be an MEP much | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
longer so if you look at where is his political base to build on this | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
great time he's having, there is one. Given that there is one I think | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
he's just having a great time and it isn't much more significant than | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
that. No? There's a lot to be said for having a great time. You are | :10:41. | :10:52. | |
having a great time. Let's just look, because of the dominance of | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
the Government we kind of it nor there are problems piling up, only | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
what, ten days with the Budget to go, piling up for Mrs May and her | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
government. The business rates which has alarmed a lot of Tories, this | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
disability cuts which are really a serious problem for the Government, | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
and the desperate need for more money for social care. There are | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
other issues, there are problems there and they involve spending | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
money. Absolutely and some people argue Theresa May has only one | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
Monday and that is to deliver Brexit but it is impossible as a Prime | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
Minister to ignore everything else. And she doesn't want to either. The | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
bubbling issue of social care and the NHS is the biggest single | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
problem for her in the weeks and months ahead, she has got to come up | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
with something. And Mr Hammond will have to loosen his belt a little | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
bit. I think he will in relation to the NHS, he didn't mention it in the | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
Autumn Statement, which was remarkable, and he cannot get away | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
with not mentioning it this time. If he mentions it, it has to be in a | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
positive context in some way or another and it is one example of | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
many. She is both strong because she is so far ahead in the opinion | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
polls, but this in tray is one of the most daunting a Prime Minister | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
has faced in recent times I think. Here is what will happen on Budget | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
day, money will be more money, magically found down the back of the | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
Treasury sofa. The projections are that he has wiggle room of about 12 | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
billion. But look at the bills, rebels involved in business rates | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
suggest the Chancellor will have to throw up ?2 billion at that problem. | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
3.7 billion is the potential cost of this judgment about disability | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
benefits. The Government will try to find different ways of satisfying it | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
but who knows. It will not popular. I'm not sure they will throw money | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
at the NHS, they want an interim settlement on social care which will | :12:59. | :13:00. | |
alleviate pressure on the NHS but they feel... That's another couple | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
of billion by the way. They feel in the Treasury that the NHS has not | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
delivered on what Simon Stevens promised them. But here is the | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
bigger problem for Philip Hammond, he has two This year and he thinks | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
the second one in the autumn is more important because that is when | :13:24. | :13:25. | |
people will feel the cost living squeeze. | :13:26. | :13:27. | |
The Daily Politics is back at noon on BBC Two tomorrow. | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
We'll be back here at the same time next week. | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:35. | :13:40. |