Browse content similar to 19/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence, | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects. | :00:44. | :00:56. | |
With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election, | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live. | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket, | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
unless hospitals are given more cash this year. | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
In the Midlands, a proposal of Providers joins me live. | :01:14. | :01:23. | |
marriage, eating your MP who want marriage, eating your MP who want | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking | :01:29. | :01:38. | |
to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
from his party's spring conference in York. | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
With me here in the studio, throughout the programme, | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
three of the country's top political commentators: | :01:49. | :01:49. | |
Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp. | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up. | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU, | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
budget measure just one week after announcing it. | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week | :02:23. | :02:23. | |
Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First | :02:24. | :02:40. | |
Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise. | :02:41. | :02:42. | |
She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
future will be decided, not just by me, the | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
Scottish Government, or the | :02:52. | :02:52. | |
SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland. | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject | :02:56. | :03:05. | |
amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned | :03:09. | :03:23. | |
attempts to change it and it becomes law. | :03:24. | :03:24. | |
But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected. | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon. | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the | :03:35. | :03:50. | |
We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling | :03:51. | :03:52. | |
the planned rise in National Insurance for | :03:53. | :04:03. | |
the self-employed announced the budget. | :04:04. | :04:05. | |
It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon. | :04:06. | :04:06. | |
The trend towards greater self-employment does create a | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
We will bring forward further proposals | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this | :04:13. | :04:14. | |
It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here. | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the | :04:26. | :04:34. | |
Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
But that's not what the Prime Minister | :04:38. | :04:39. | |
Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a | :04:40. | :04:46. | |
We should be working together, not pulling apart. | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
We should be working together to get that | :04:52. | :04:53. | |
right deal for Scotland, that | :04:54. | :04:54. | |
So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time. | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
Friday and time for the faithful to gather. | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
SNP activists at their spring conference | :05:06. | :05:06. | |
Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister | :05:07. | :05:17. | |
promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain. | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly | :05:22. | :05:23. | |
I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
Evening Standard and, you know, with so many | :05:31. | :05:32. | |
big issues in our world what | :05:33. | :05:33. | |
good analysis, great news journalism. | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
It's a really important time for good journalism that The | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
Evening Standard is going to provide. | :05:45. | :05:45. | |
There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals | :05:46. | :05:52. | |
Under my proposals we keep the Barnett | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament. | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government, | :06:09. | :06:26. | |
Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with | :06:34. | :06:41. | |
the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable. | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on. | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said, | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead, | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
election. I don't think she has thought about how you would | :10:23. | :10:24. | |
manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do. | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as | :11:00. | :11:01. | |
commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because | :11:11. | :11:12. | |
she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections. | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall | :11:46. | :11:46. | |
see. So if Theresa May did go | :11:47. | :11:48. | |
for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns | :11:49. | :11:50. | |
and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we | :11:51. | :12:01. | |
have just been talking about, executed one of the most | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So, | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
want this government to be in power so of course if there is an | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to | :13:25. | :13:27. | |
bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election? | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
opportunity to put that case to the British people. | :14:05. | :14:06. | |
Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all | :14:07. | :14:15. | |
but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one? | :14:16. | :14:17. | |
How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to | :14:31. | :14:38. | |
build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these | :15:21. | :15:22. | |
things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called. | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that, | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have. | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally, | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17 | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn? | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years. | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds, | :18:51. | :19:00. | |
where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit | :19:01. | :19:02. | |
cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us. | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring | :19:25. | :19:26. | |
conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. | :19:27. | :19:28. | |
Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps | :19:29. | :19:36. | |
Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not | :19:43. | :19:50. | |
saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit, | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, | :20:41. | :20:49. | |
Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU, | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing | :22:08. | :22:15. | |
so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not | :22:34. | :22:42. | |
challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in | :23:36. | :23:44. | |
Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted | :23:51. | :23:59. | |
for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky, | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the | :24:38. | :24:49. | |
ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we | :24:59. | :25:07. | |
are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the | :25:25. | :25:35. | |
British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always | :26:44. | :26:51. | |
welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is | :26:52. | :26:58. | |
certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you | :26:59. | :27:00. | |
spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or | :27:01. | :27:07. | |
spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also | :27:32. | :27:39. | |
wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us. | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been | :28:03. | :28:04. | |
warning the health service needs more money to help it meet | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
no immediate relief, and today the head of | :28:11. | :28:12. | |
the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds | :28:13. | :28:14. | |
of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
care and planned operations, unless the Government | :28:18. | :28:18. | |
Warnings over funding are not exactly new. | :28:19. | :28:26. | |
Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens, | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
published his plan for the future of the health service. | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020. | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra, | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
and that the health service could account for the rest by making | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
The Government says it's given the health service more than what it | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
asked for, and that NHS in England will have received | :28:57. | :28:58. | |
That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more | :29:05. | :29:06. | |
like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
have been cut, putting pressure on the front line. | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
from the Government, the NHS is likely to record | :29:22. | :29:23. | |
Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being | :29:29. | :29:30. | |
This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care | :29:31. | :29:38. | |
but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
Providers in England, Chris Hopson. | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra | :29:57. | :30:03. | |
money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18 | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020. | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22 | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25 | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years? | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for. | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you. | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900 | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5 | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
important we should make an important distinction about the NHS | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution, | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36 | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25 | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts | :35:56. | :36:06. | |
which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous | :36:07. | :36:08. | |
organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales. | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
Have you raised that with the government? | :36:11. | :36:10. | |
Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard | :36:11. | :36:23. | |
somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in | :36:45. | :36:52. | |
a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I | :36:53. | :36:54. | |
have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community, | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we | :37:09. | :37:11. | |
should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There | :37:21. | :37:27. | |
was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication, | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me. | :38:47. | :38:47. | |
It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the Midlands. | :38:53. | :39:04. | |
Theresa May and Nicola Sturgeon want out, while the Shropshire MP | :39:05. | :39:12. | |
Owen Paterson wants two neighbouring local council leaders | :39:13. | :39:13. | |
to tie the knot - a marriage made in heaven. | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
But is Mr Paterson really plotting not a wedding, but a funeral? | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
Talking of the attraction of opposites, our guests | :39:24. | :39:25. | |
today are Ruth Smeeth, Labour MP for Stoke North. | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
She supported Remain, in a city that voted | :39:30. | :39:31. | |
And Daniel Kawczynszi, Conservative MP for Shrewsbury and Atcham, | :39:32. | :39:44. | |
backed the victorious Leave campaign. | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
I'll be asking one of their three Midlands MEPs. | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
We begin, though, with that record ?70,000 fine imposed | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
by the Electoral Commission on the Conservative Party, | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
for inaccurate reporting of their 2015 general election expenses. | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
This follows confirmation that Gloucestershire and Staffordshire | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
are among 12 police forces which have sent files | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
to the Crown Prosecution Service over allegations that the party | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
misreported its spending on its election battle bus. | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
It ferried party activists into key marginal seats during the campaign. | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
The question now is whether or not the party used the more generous | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
spending limits for national campaigns, to gain | :40:32. | :40:33. | |
an unfair advantage in individual constituencies. | :40:34. | :40:45. | |
Daniel, campaigning for broader participation in elections groups | :40:46. | :40:52. | |
accuse your party of buying the last general election. I think all | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
parties have been fined by the Electoral Commission. Labour did. | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
but yours is unprecedented, the maximum fine. Yes, all parties were | :41:04. | :41:10. | |
fined but I think the battle bus didn't cut additional costs and the | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
allegation was that they were not properly submitted by the | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
constituency that was hosting the battle bus. I welcome this | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
investigation in the sense that it is very important for future general | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
elections that there needs to be much greater clarification to the | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
constituency agents on the ground, what they are responsible for and | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
what they have to declare and I think this will have to be | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
implemented very vigorously in the next general election. It's for the | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
Crown Prosecution Service to decide whether there is a case to answer in | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
terms of police files. Would you welcome the prospect of more | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
by-elections? I don't think any politician likes by-elections by | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
clearly there is an independent process instigated by the Electoral | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
Commission and the police are involved so we have to wait and see | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
what the adjudication is. Daniel pointed out that both Labour and the | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
Liberal Democrats have been fined over electoral expenses. Is that why | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
Labour have been relatively muted over the Tory embarrassment? I don't | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
think that's the case at all. This is about trust in politics. This | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
isn't about misreporting and forgetting to include some invoices, | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
this is about whether people knowingly submitted dodgy election | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
expenses or not and it's ?70,000 on a big concern about this is not the | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
amount, not what happens in terms of the individual Members of | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
Parliament, but whether we can have trust and faith in our politicians. | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
I spent every day trying to ensure that we do. We need to ensure there | :42:53. | :42:53. | |
is a level playing field where is a level playing field where | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
people can campaign properly and that we have trust. | :42:57. | :42:58. | |
Let's move on, now, to those two divorce petitions. | :42:59. | :43:00. | |
Nicola Sturgeon wants to take Scotland out of the UK, | :43:01. | :43:02. | |
because Theresa May is about to begin proceedings | :43:03. | :43:04. | |
to take the UK out of the EU, but only after yet more | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
A local Tory defied his party to vote against the Government. | :43:08. | :43:14. | |
While one of our Labour contingent defied his, to vote with it. | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
Nick Watson has been making sense of it all. | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
Nine months after the referendum, Parliament finally votes | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
A Labour amendment to force a vote on the terms of Brexit was rejected, | :43:30. | :43:39. | |
as was a bid to amend the bill to protect the rights of residency | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
It was defeated despite support from Cheltenham MP Alex Chalk, | :43:43. | :43:49. | |
one of two Tories to defy the Government on the issue. | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
Wolverhampton South West Labour MP Rob Marris was also in defiant mood. | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
A Remainer, he joined the small band of Labour Leavers | :44:01. | :44:02. | |
to back the Government against his party's line. | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
If the Government continues to drag its heels on this important issue... | :44:07. | :44:09. | |
Emma Reynolds, his colleague from across the city, | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
was worried about two years of uncertainty affecting EU | :44:14. | :44:15. | |
nationals over here and UK nationals over there. | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
But eurosceptic veteran Sir Bill Cash had a warning | :44:22. | :44:23. | |
This issue is not about parliamentary sovereignty, in fact, | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
it is about undermining a decision that has been made by a referendum | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
of the British people, which was itself conferred | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
That is what we need to concentrate on. | :44:39. | :44:46. | |
After being backed in the Commons the bill made it through the Lords | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
All seemed set for the PM to pull the trigger on Tuesday morning, | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
but those plans were put on hold after Nicola Sturgeon announced | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
she would be seeking a second referendum on Scottish independence. | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
And we're also joined here today by Brexit Bill himself. | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
Bill Etheridge, Ukip MEP for the West Midlands, | :45:07. | :45:08. | |
One of the things that struck me about the events of the last few | :45:09. | :45:22. | |
days is how fast things are moving forward and how little apart Ukip is | :45:23. | :45:30. | |
having in all this -- little a part. We rolled the rock to the top of the | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
mountain. 2016 was your year and it's gone. No, we achieved what we | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
wanted to do. I'm delighted, it's quite emotional to see this | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
happening, it's something I wanted to see all of my life. We move onto | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
Ukipnext role. Is that the case? I Ukipnext role. Is that the case? I | :45:49. | :45:55. | |
get the sense that especially after the poor performance, there is a | :45:56. | :46:04. | |
leadership vacuum in Ukip and a lack of identity. We got a new leader who | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
is just settling into it. I congratulated Labour on winning | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
Stoke, we didn't put in the kind of performance we expected to and let | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
yourself down. It doesn't mean we're finished, it means we learn from it | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
and come back stronger. Anyone who writes as is sorely mistaken. -- | :46:22. | :46:32. | |
write us off. The less said about the man in question who was to be | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
suspended, the better. It's better if we get people elected who are | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
genuinely interested in supporting Ukip values and promoting our party | :46:42. | :46:50. | |
rather than sneering. The two issues at the heart of the Parliamentary | :46:51. | :46:57. | |
vote on EU nationals over here and EU nationals over their -- UK | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
nationals over there. As someone born in Poland, you must have an | :47:02. | :47:09. | |
interest in this. Yes, and a lot of polish people have criticised me | :47:10. | :47:17. | |
strongly because they think we should unilaterally give EU citizens | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
the right to stay. I feel very strongly about this, that we will | :47:21. | :47:29. | |
we will negotiate for them to stay we will negotiate for them to stay | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
in the UK but we have two negotiate for British citizens' writes to stay | :47:36. | :47:44. | |
in the EU. people know individuals on both sides of this were a very | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
deeply offended. We tried to start this process and Angela Merkel | :47:52. | :47:54. | |
refused to allow us to even talk about it under Article 50 was | :47:55. | :48:01. | |
triggered -- until. What we must never forget about British citizens | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
living in the European Union and to give unilateral right to EU citizens | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
without guaranteeing the rates are British citizens I think would have | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
been completely the wrong message. -- the rights of British citizens. | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
Your voice is relatively little hurt. I voted twice to trigger | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
Article 50. For me, it's about making it work for our constituents | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
and delivering and part of that is ensuring there isn't a spike in hate | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
crime and that my constituents, whether they were born in Europe or | :48:38. | :48:39. | |
not, feel reassured and I've written to everyone of my European | :48:40. | :48:46. | |
constituents to tell them I am there to support them when they feel at | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
their most honourable. We have seen a spike in hate crime in Stoke and I | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
have had people floods to my surgeries and Comite office because | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
they are concerned about what's happening so far meat is about | :48:58. | :49:05. | |
reassurance for them -- come to my office. There are 1 million British | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
people in Spain and we need to ensure their rights are protected as | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
well. Do you have people in Shrewsbury who need reassurance? Yes | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
and we give them reassurance. The British way as always to be fair to | :49:20. | :49:28. | |
people and they would be astounded if anyone was forced to leave. We | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
will go the extra mile to make sure people who have come here illegally | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
come here legally from the European come here legally from the European | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
Union are allowed to stay. Well not getting the rates for British | :49:42. | :49:49. | |
citizens, I think it would send the message that we are not prioritising | :49:50. | :50:00. | |
our own citizens -- rights. We don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable | :50:01. | :50:03. | |
about the situation. It is a realistic and bright outlook. I'm | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
happy right now because from the bottom of my heart I think this is | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
best for everyone in the UK and those who have come here and want to | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
contribute to the UK and love our country, great, I want them to be as | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
excited as everyone else because this is a wonderful chance. the next | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
European election in 2019 is just around the corner and you're not | :50:25. | :50:26. | |
going to be part of it so what do you do next? What is a life after | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
the European Parliament? What I know I'm going to be doing is giving it a | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
good shot in 2020 in Ukip colours if selected to stand for the | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
constituency and if I don't get in, maybe I'll go back to selling steel! | :50:41. | :50:47. | |
a quick final thought about Scotland and Nicola Sturgeon which adds a | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
competition to the whole thing. I hope we can agree on this but the | :50:54. | :50:55. | |
way in which Nicola Sturgeon is playing politics with us is | :50:56. | :51:01. | |
absolutely outrageous and destabilises the United Kingdom. | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
Nobody should be voting on Brexit until it has been embedded and until | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
we know what the relationship is. I think she's being totally | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
irresponsible. I think this is about the union. IME proud British person | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
and on that basis the fact she has more faith in Brussels than | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
Westminster is a disgrace. I am totally unimpressed by her actions | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
and I will be fighting for the union. She would rather be | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
controlled from Brussels than remain in the United Kingdom and that is an | :51:32. | :51:33. | |
extraordinary position. Let's talk now about | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
the marriage proposal. The Shropshire MP Owen Paterson | :51:38. | :51:44. | |
wants a couple of neighbouring local And it's certainly not | :51:45. | :51:46. | |
a classic love match. Our political reporter | :51:47. | :51:54. | |
Joanne Gallacher has been talking to the would-be suitors, | :51:55. | :51:56. | |
in this "chalk and cheese" affair. Is this the future - | :51:57. | :51:58. | |
marrying up council services between Shropshire | :51:59. | :52:09. | |
and Telford and Wrekin? One big local authority | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
for the whole county. During cash-strapped times, | :52:13. | :52:14. | |
one of the county's leading MPs thinks it could save taxpayers up | :52:15. | :52:16. | |
to ?20 million a year. You can't keep these councils | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
going as a vanity project Why should inhabitants of Shropshire | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
or Telford and Wrekin be lumbered with an unnecessary, | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
inefficient and expensive Supporters say it could | :52:33. | :52:34. | |
be a perfect union - sharing services, one chief | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
executive, one council headquarters. Shropshire Council's Conservative | :52:41. | :52:42. | |
Leader is willing to accept an invitation to the party, | :52:43. | :52:44. | |
but he's not fully committed. We're working very closely | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
with Telford and Wrekin at the moment, and I think that's | :52:51. | :52:52. | |
the best opportunity I think while the argument | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
about merging goes along, that only inhibits our ability | :52:56. | :53:02. | |
to work together. But Labour-run Telford and Wrekin, | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
is refusing to be wooed. People who think we should go back | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
to the Saxon times and have one county council for the whole | :53:10. | :53:17. | |
of the region. Telford is known as the | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
birthplace of industry. Historically, it's a Labour | :53:21. | :53:22. | |
stronghold, so how do people here feel about hooking up | :53:23. | :53:24. | |
with the more rural Shropshire? The bigger they are, | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
the less you get done. There's less cooperation | :53:30. | :53:32. | |
between anybody. I suspect together, at least we've | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
not got two lots of people arguing. Too big, the area would | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
be too big, I think. Up the river is Shrewsbury, | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
the market town at the heart of Shropshire, but do people living | :53:47. | :53:48. | |
here think they have enough in common with the more | :53:49. | :53:51. | |
urban Telford and Wrekin? It probably wouldn't work | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
because Telford and Wrekin, with the number of people living | :53:56. | :53:57. | |
in that region, would probably be a drain on the assets | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
of the Shropshire and Shrewsbury communities, so Frankeley | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
I'd be against it. If there is something that suits | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
all people, I'm all for it. If they want to do | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
it, they'll do it! Communities and Local Government | :54:12. | :54:13. | |
Secretary Sajid Javid doesn't want to get involved in the issue | :54:14. | :54:23. | |
at this stage. He says any decision on a link up | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
needs to be taken at a local level. "Marry in haste, repent | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
in leisure" is the old adage, and it seems there's no need to send | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
out the invitations for this No wedding bells quite yet Daniel, | :54:35. | :54:56. | |
but will you be standing there with a fistful of confetti when the big | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
day comes? Owen Paterson and I have been pushing for a merger for many | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
years and I'm delighted you are sharing the necessity with your | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
audience. It's not just a question about value for money which | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
taxpayers but my experience as an MP for the last 12 years is when you go | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
collectively as one county to lobby Government with all the MPs behind, | :55:19. | :55:24. | |
you are much more likely to succeed in getting the things you need for | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
your community and our county has been cut in half artificially and we | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
are actually fighting one another for resources, rather than going | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
into Government collectively to fight for the whole of Shropshire. | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
Whether you live in Telford or Shrewsbury, it is all one county and | :55:43. | :55:46. | |
we should have won council. a similar argument if you take it to | :55:47. | :55:53. | |
extremes could be made for taking unitary stalk and to cheer | :55:54. | :55:55. | |
Staffordshire and putting them together. -- Stoke. That wouldn't | :55:56. | :56:03. | |
work. It's about people who deliver our local public services but we've | :56:04. | :56:06. | |
also seen top-down restructures by this Government. We sought in the | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
NHS, it costs a fortune and delivered nothing. -- saw it the | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
NHS. It's about investing money and making sure local councils are | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
funded. That's how we deliver better public services. Telford, Shropshire | :56:22. | :56:28. | |
are different areas, one has a Labour authority and one is | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
agricultural. Separate identities. Under the Labour Government, we had | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
all the districts abolished to create one authority. This is now | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
the logical next step to make sure our county has won council -- one. | :56:43. | :56:54. | |
Owen Paterson and I think they could save ?20 million a year. We tied | :56:55. | :57:01. | |
independent reports commissioned and information from the House of | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
Commons library. My appeal to the council is at least go through the | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
process of evaluating what savings could take place from the won | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
council. We're getting more money from adult social care services and | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
in these very difficult times of difficult barges and -- budgets, it | :57:20. | :57:27. | |
is about finding better value for money. It is a complex, fragmented | :57:28. | :57:35. | |
system. We are now having a combined authority which is difficult for | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
many people to understand and hold people to account. It really is and | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
people like their current arrangements. I nearly burst in | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
Staffordshire that represents both the city in the county. -- and the | :57:48. | :57:56. | |
county. They like to know who delivers what, how and when but it's | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
also about connection with local councillors and I would worry about | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
that if we started messing around with it. | :58:03. | :58:11. | |
Let's catch-up now with the rest of the political developments making | :58:12. | :58:14. | |
Our round-up in 60 Seconds is brought to us today by Sarah Bishop. | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
Bosses at GCHQ in Cheltenham issued a statement denying | :58:20. | :58:21. | |
they wire-tapped Donald Trump, describing the claims as "nonsense". | :58:22. | :58:23. | |
There was embarrassment for the West Midlands Lib Dem Mayoral | :58:24. | :58:25. | |
hopeful Beverley Nielsen after she was wrongly billed | :58:26. | :58:27. | |
as the Labour candidate on some of her campaign literature, | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
Conservative Mayoral candidate Andy Street launched his manifesto | :58:31. | :58:39. | |
confident that he's in with a good chance of victory. | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
If you look at the last general election, we only need a 4% swing | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
and then we've spent the last six months getting our message out | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
there and the feedback I'm getting is, "Yes, | :58:51. | :58:52. | |
you've got a really well-considered plan." | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
Workers at BMW's Hams Hall engine plant in Warwickshire protested | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
against plans to end their final salary pension scheme, | :59:01. | :59:02. | |
which they say could cost them tens of thousands of pounds. | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
And hundreds marched through the streets of Shrewsbury | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
to protest against cuts to schools funding. | :59:09. | :59:10. | |
Elsewhere, Cotswold MP Geoffrey Clifton-Brown led | :59:11. | :59:11. | |
a delegation of backbench Tories to confront the education secretary. | :59:12. | :59:21. | |
Strong feelings in Daniel's Shrewsbury constituency. Do you | :59:22. | :59:30. | |
share those strong feelings? The funding mechanism has to be changed. | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
We've been lobbying on this for many years because there are parts of | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
Britain that get ?8,000 per pupil and in Shropshire we get ?4000. | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
Certain parts of London and inner-city conurbations get double | :59:45. | :59:46. | |
what we get in Shropshire. It's very in -- important for the funding to | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
be changed. I will raise this issue on the floor of the house. Some get | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
less, some get more, but overall we will get an increase in the budget | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
for Shropshire schools. The consultation is open until the 22nd | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
of March. This is in the final formula but it is very important | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
that we narrow the gap on the differences around the country. and | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
this has been going on under successive Government climb-mac. | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
Lets see what's actually happening. In Stoke-on-Trent is going to be | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
aired percent cut by 2020 under this Government. I've met with | :00:26. | :00:27. | |
headteachers this week were talking headteachers this week were talking | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
to me about how many teachers they are looking to make redundant to | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
restructure. ?400 per child per school in my constituency. It's | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
simply a disgrace. This isn't working and my fear about what | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
happens next is they will look to make further cuts in order to give | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
money to rural areas with cities like mine where we need additional | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
investment in our children so they have every single opportunity | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
available will have those taken away available will have those taken away | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
from them. It's a disgrace what this Government are doing. More money is | :00:59. | :01:09. | |
going into the education budget. More students than ever before are | :01:10. | :01:20. | |
poorer! It is unsustainable and unfair for some areas of the country | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
to get double the funding. Of course some areas need extra help but not | :01:26. | :01:26. | |
double. My thanks to Ruth Smeeth | :01:27. | :01:27. | |
and Daniel Kawczynski. She's opening a Westminster debate, | :01:28. | :01:28. | |
supporting Stoke's bid And remember Coventry and Hereford | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
are bidding for this too. There is no better city in to | :01:33. | :01:44. | |
celebrate British culture than Stoke-on-Trent and I hope everyone | :01:45. | :01:45. | |
will support us. The winner will be declared | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
in December, at the end of Hull's This, though, is where | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
we rejoin Andrew Neil. pricing of these buildings. Thank | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back to you. | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
So, can George Osborne stay on as a member of Parliament | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
Will Conservative backbenchers force a Government re-think | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
And is Theresa May about to cap gas and electricity prices? | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
Whose idea was that first of all? They are all questions for the Week | :02:15. | :02:23. | |
Ahead to. Let's start with the story that is | :02:24. | :02:33. | |
too much fun to miss, on Friday it was announced the former Chancellor | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
would be the new editor of London's Evening Standard newspaper, a | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
position he will take up in mid-May on a salary of ?200,000 for four | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
days a week. But Mr Osborne has said he will not | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
be stepping down as MP for Tatton in Cheshire, | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
a job he's held since 2001, Alongside these duties, | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
he's also chairman of While being committed to one day | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
a week at Black Rock, an American asset management firm - | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
a part-time role that earns him Then he's polishing his academic | :03:05. | :03:06. | |
credentials, as a fellow at the McCain Institute, | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
an American thinktank, And finally as a member | :03:13. | :03:14. | |
of the Washington Speaker's Bureau, he also earns his keep | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
as an after-dinner speaker, banking around ?750,000 | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
since last summer. So there you go. Nice little earners | :03:29. | :03:40. | |
if you can get them. The problem, though, is he has put second jobs on | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
the agenda and lots of his fellow MPs are not happy because they have | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
got second jobs but not making that kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
on both sides actually are unhappy about it exactly for those reasons. | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
I find it a very interesting appointment. We have got these | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
people on the centre and centre right of politics who have been used | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
to power since 1997, they have been on the airwaves today, Tony Blair, | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they are all seeking other platforms now | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
because power has moved elsewhere. So Tony Blair is setting up this new | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
foundation, Nick Clegg refused to condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
praised the appointment. They are all searching for new platforms. | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
They might have overestimated the degree to which this will be a huge | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
influential platform. The standard was very pro-Tory at the 2015 | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
election but London voted Labour, it was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
elected Sadiq Khan. It might be overestimating the degree to which | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
this is a hugely influential paper. But I can see why it attracts him as | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
a platform when all these platforms have disappeared, eg power and | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
government. All of these people who used to be in power are quietly | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
getting together again, Mr Blair on television this morning, George | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
Osborne not only filling his bank account but now in charge of | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
London's most important newspaper, Nick Clegg out today not saying | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
Brexit was a done deal, waiting to see what happens, even John Major | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
was wheeled out again today in the Mail on Sunday. They are all playing | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
for position. I half expect David Cameron to turn up as features | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
editor on The Evening Standard. Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg, | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
did he not? I do not think this is sustainable for George Osborne, I | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
worked at The Evening Standard and I was there for three years, I know | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
what the hours are like for a humble journalist, never mind the editor. | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
If he thinks he can get at 4am everyday to be in the offices at 5am | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
to oversee the splash, manage everything in the way and edited | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
should he is in cloud cuckoo land. What this says to people is there is | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
a kind of feel of soft corruption about public life here, where you | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
see what you can get away with. He thinks he can brazen this out and | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
maybe he can but what kind of message does that send to people | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
about how seriously people take the role of being an MP? He must have | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
known. He applied for the job. The Russian owner didn't approach him, | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
he approached Lebedev, the proprietor, for it. He must have | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
calculated there would be some kickback. I wonder if he realised | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
there would be quite the kickback there has been. I think that's | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
probably right. This hasn't finished yet, by the way, this will go on and | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
on. How on earth does George Osborne cover the budget in the autumn? Big | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
budget, lots of physical changes and tax rises to deal with the messages | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
out of this week. You can see already, Theresa May budget crashes. | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
It could be worse. She's useless! Or, worse than that, me, brilliant | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
budget, terrible newspaper, I've never buying it again. He has | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
hoisted his own petard. He has not bought it properly through. It's a | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
something interesting about his own future calculations, if he wants to | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
stay on as an MP in 2020 and be Prime Minister as he has or was | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
wanted to be he has got to find a new seat. How do you go into an | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
association and say I should be an MP, I can do it for at least four | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
hours Purdy after editing The Evening Standard, making a big | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
speech and telling Black Rock how to make a big profit. The feature pages | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
have to be approved for the next day and feature pages are aware the | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
editor gets to make their mark. The news is the news. The feature is | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
what concerns you, what he is in your bonnet. That defines the | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
newspaper, doesn't it? It is not over yet. Too much 101 on | :07:53. | :08:02. | |
newspapers. And Haatheq at. School funding, the consultation | :08:03. | :08:04. | |
period ends, it has been a tricky one for the government, some areas | :08:05. | :08:13. | |
losing. I guess we are seeing this through the prism of the National | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
Insurance contributions now, it is a small majority, if Tory MPs are | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
unhappy she may not get her way. Talking to backbench MPs who are | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
unhappy the feeling is it is not going to go ahead in the proposed | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
form that the consultation has been on. No 10 will definitely have to | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
move on this. It is unclear whether they will scrap it completely, or | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
will they bring in something possibly like a base level, floor | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
level pupil funding below which you can't go? You would then still need | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
to find some extra money. So there are no easy solutions on this but | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
what is clear it is not going to go ahead in its current form. Parents | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
have been getting letters across the country in England about what this | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
will mean for teachers and so on in certain schools. It's not just a | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
matter of the education Department, the schools, or the teachers and | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
Tory backbenchers. Parents are being mobilised on this. The point of the | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
new funding formula is to allocate more money to the more | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
disadvantaged. That means schools in the more prosperous suburbs are | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
going to lose money. Budget cuts on schools which are already | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
struggling. It comes down again to be huge problem, the ever smaller | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
fiscal pool, ever greater demands, NHS, social care, education as well, | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
adding to Theresa May and Phillip Hammond's enormous problems. Here is | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
an interesting issue, Steve. There was a labour Leader of the | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
Opposition that once suggested perhaps given these huge energy | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
companies which seemed to be good at passing on energy rises but not so | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
good at cutting energy prices when it falls, that perhaps we should put | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
a cap on them until at least we study how the market goes. This was | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
obviously ludicrous Marxism and quite rightly knocked down by the | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
Conservatives, except that Mrs May is now talking about putting a cap | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
on energy prices. Yes, I think if it wasn't for Brexit we would focus | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
much more on Theresa May's Ed Miliband streak. Whether this | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
translates into policies, let us see. That bit we don't know. That | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
bit we don't know but in terms of argument her speech to the | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
Conservative conference on Friday was about the third or fourth time | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
where she said as part of the speech, let's focus on the good that | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
government can do, including in intervening in markets, exactly in | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
the way that he used to argue. As you say, we await the policy | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
consequences of that. She seems more cautious in terms of policy in | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
fermentation. But in terms of the industrial strategy, in terms of | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
implying intervention in certain markets, there is a kind of | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
Milibandesque streak. And there comes a time when she has to walk | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
the walk as well as talk the talk. They talk a lot about the just about | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
managing, just about managing face rising food bills because of the | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
lower pound and face rising fuel bills because of the rise in oil and | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
in other commodities. One of the two things you could do to help the just | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
about managing is to cut their food bills and the second would be to cut | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
their fuel bills. At some stage she has to do something for them. We | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
don't know what is going to happen to food bills under Brexit, that | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
could become a really serious issue. They could abolish tariffs. There | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
has been a lot of talking the talk and big announcements put out and | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
not following through so I agree with you on that but lots of Tory | :11:43. | :11:44. | |
MPs will have a big problem on this and the principle of | :11:45. | :11:59. | |
continually talking about interfering in markets, whether it's | :12:00. | :12:01. | |
on executive pay, whether it is on energy, at a time when Britain needs | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
to send out this message to the world in their view, in the view of | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
Brexit supporting MPs, that we are open for business and the government | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
is not about poking around and doing this kind of thing. Of course, you | :12:11. | :12:12. | |
could argue there is not a problem in the market for energy, it is a | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
malfunctioning market that doesn't operate like a free market should, | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
so that provides even Adam Smith, the inventor of market economics | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
would have said on that basis you should intervene. I was in Cardiff | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
to listen to Theresa May's latest explanation for doing this. By the | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
way, we've been waiting nine months, this was one of her big ideas. You | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
are right, let's see a bit of the meat, please. My newspaper has been | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
calling for some pretty hefty government action on this for quite | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
some time. For the just about managings? Yes and specifically to | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
sort out an energy market dominated by the big six, which is manifestly | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
ripping people off left, right and centre. Theresa May's argument in | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
Cardiff on Friday morning which, by the way, went down like a proverbial | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
windbreak at the proverbial funeral because Tories... You know what I | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
mean Andrew, the big hand coming into from the state telling | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
businesses what to do. They went very quiet indeed. They were having | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
saving the union and Nato but there was no clapping for that. The point | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
being, this is what she needs to do to prove her assault, to prove those | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
first words on the steps of Downing Street. We await to see the actions | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
taken. On that unusual agreement we will | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
leave it there. The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at | :13:32. | :13:32. | |
noon and everyday during the week. And I'll be here on BBC One | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
next Sunday at 11am. Remember, if it's Sunday, | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:39. | :13:40. |