Browse content similar to 12/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
David Davis tells MPs to leave the Brexit bill untouched, | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
ahead of a week which could see Britain begin the process | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
We'll talk to a Tory rebel and Ukip's Nigel Farage. | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
Phillip Hammond's first budget hit the rocks thanks to a tax rise | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
But how should we tax those who work for themselves? | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
And remember Donald Trump's claim that Barack Obama had ordered | :01:01. | :01:02. | |
We'll talk to the former Tory MP who set the whole story rolling. | :01:03. | :01:11. | |
As a home care agency in Gloucestershire goes bust, will the | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
And joining me for all of that, three self-employed journalists | :01:16. | :01:30. | |
who definitely don't deserve a tax break. | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer | :01:35. | :01:35. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme with all the carefree | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
abandon of Katie Hopkins before a libel trial. | :01:41. | :01:47. | |
BBC lawyers have suddenly got nervous! | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
So first today, the government is gearing up to trigger Article 50, | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
perhaps in the next 48 hours, and start negotiating Britain's | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
Much has been written about the prospect of the Commons | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
getting a "meaningful vote" on the deal Britain negotiates. | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
Brexit Secretary David Davis was on the Andrew Marr programme | :02:02. | :02:03. | |
earlier this morning and he was asked what happens | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
Well, that is what is called the most favoured nation status deal | :02:07. | :02:16. | |
There we go out, as it were, on WTO rules. | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
That is why of course we do the contingency planning, to make | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
The British people decided on June the 23rd last year | :02:25. | :02:31. | |
My job, and the job of the government, is to make | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
the terms on which that happens as beneficial as possible. | :02:37. | :02:46. | |
There we have it, clearly, either Parliament votes for the deal when | :02:47. | :02:54. | |
it is done or it out on World Trade Organisation rules. That's what the | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
government means by a meaningful vote. | :02:58. | :02:59. | |
I think we get over obsessed about whether there will be a legal right | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
for Parliament to have a vote. If there is no deal or a bad deal, I | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
think it would be politically impossible for the government to | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
reject Parliament's desire for a vote because the atmosphere of | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
politics will be completely different by then. I take David | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
Davies seriously. Within Whitehall he has acquired a reputation as | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
being the most conscientious and details sadly... And well briefed. | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
Absolutely and well travelled in terms of European capitals of the | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
three Brexit ministers. It is quite telling he said what he did and it | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
is quite telling that within cabinet, two weeks ago he was | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
floating the idea of no deal at all. Being if not the central estimate | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
than a completely plausible eventuality. It is interesting. I | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
would suggest the prospect of no deal is moving up the agenda. It is | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
still less likely than more likely to happen. But it's no longer a kind | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
of long tail way out there in the distance. Planning for no deal is | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
the same as having contents insurance or travel insurance, plan | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
for the worse case scenarios are prepared it happens. Even the worst | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
case scenario, it's not that bad. Think of the Jeep 20, apart from the | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
EU, four members of the G20 economies are successful members of | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
the EU. The rest aren't and don't have trade deals but somehow these | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
countries are prospering. They are growing at a higher rate. You are | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
not frightened? Not remotely. We are obsessed with what we get from the | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
EU and the key thing we get from leaving the EU is not the deal but | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
the other deals we can finally make with other trading partners. They | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
have higher growth than virtually every other EU country apart from | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
Germany. It is sensible as a negotiating position for the | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
government to say if there is no deal, we will accept there is no | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
deal. We're not frightened of no deal. It was clear from what David | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
Davies was saying that there will be a vote in parliament at the end of | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
the process but there won't be a third option to send the government | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
back to try to get a better deal. It is either the deal or we leave | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
without a deal. In reality, that third option will be there. We don't | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
know yet whether there will be a majority for the deal if they get | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
one. What we do know now is that there isn't a majority in the | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
Commons for no deal. Labour MPs are absolutely clear that no deal is | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
worth then a bad deal. I've heard enough Tory MPs say the same thing. | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
But they wouldn't get no deal through. When it comes to this vote, | :05:28. | :05:36. | |
if whatever deal is rejected, there will then be, one way or another, | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
the third option raised of go back again. But who gets to decide what | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
is a bad deal? The British people will have a different idea than the | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
two thirds of the Remain supporting MPs in the Commons. In terms of the | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
vote, the Commons. Surely, if the Commons, which is what matters here, | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
if the Commons were to vote against the deal as negotiated by the | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
government, surely that would trigger a general election? If the | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
government had recommended the deal, surely the government would then, if | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
it still felt strongly about the deal, if the other 27 had said, | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
we're not negotiating, extending it, it would in effect become a second | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
referendum on the deal. In effect it would be a no-confidence vote in the | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
government. You've got to assume that unless something massively | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
changes in the opposition before then, the government would feel | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
fairly confident about a general election on those terms. Unless the | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
deal is hideously bad and obviously basso every vote in the country... | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
The prior minister said if it is that bad she would have rather no | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
deal. So that eventuality arrives. -- the Prime Minister has said. Not | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
a second referendum general election in two years' time. Don't put any | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
holidays for! LAUGHTER -- don't look any. | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
So the Brexit bill looks likely to clear Parliament this week. | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
That depends on the number of Conservative MPs who are prepared | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
to vote against their government on two key issues. | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
Theresa May could be in negotiations with our European | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
partners within days, but there may be some | :07:10. | :07:11. | |
wheeler-dealings she has to do with her own MPs, too. | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
Cast your mind back to the beginning of month. | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
The bill to trigger Article 50 passed comfortably | :07:19. | :07:20. | |
But three Conservatives voted for Labour's amendments to ensure | :07:21. | :07:28. | |
the rights of EU citizens already in the UK. | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
Seven Tory MPs voted to force the government to give Parliament | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
a say on the deal struck with the EU before it's finalised. | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
But remember those numbers, they're important. | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
On the issue of a meaningful vote on a deal, I'm told there might have | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
been more rebels had it not been for this assurance from | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
I can confirm that the government will bring forward a motion | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
on the final agreement to be approved by both Houses | :07:57. | :07:58. | |
And we expect, and intend, that this will happen before | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
the European Parliament debates and votes on the final agreement. | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
When the government was criticised for reeling back | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
from when and what it would offer a vote on. | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
The bill then moved into the Lords, where peers passed it | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
And the second, that Parliament be given a meaningful vote on the terms | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
of the deal or indeed a vote in the event of there | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
The so-called Brexit bill will return to Commons | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
Ministers insist that both amendments would weaken | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
the government's negotiating hand and are seeking to overturn them. | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
But, as ever, politics is a numbers game. | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
Theresa May has a working majority of 17. | :08:50. | :08:51. | |
On Brexit, though, it's probably higher. | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
At least six Labour MPs generally vote with | :08:56. | :08:57. | |
Plus, eight DUP MPs, two from the Ulster Unionist party | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
If all Conservatives vote with the government as well, | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
Therefore, 26 Conservative rebels are needed for the government to be | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
So, are there rough waters ahead for Theresa May? | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
What numbers are we looking at, in terms of a potential rebellion? | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
I think we're looking at a large number of people who are interested | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
This building is a really important building. | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
It's symbolic of a huge amount of history. | :09:30. | :09:31. | |
And for it not to be involved in this momentous time would, | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
But he says a clear verbal statement from the government on a meaningful | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
vote on any deal would be enough to get most Tory MPs onside. | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
It was already said about David Jones. | :09:49. | :09:49. | |
It's slightly unravelled a little bit during | :09:50. | :09:51. | |
I think this is an opportunity to really get that clarity | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
through so that we can all vote for Article 50 and get | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
We've have spoken to several Tory MPs who say they are minded to vote | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
One said the situation was sad and depressing. | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
The other said that the whips must be worried because they don't | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
A minister told me Downing Street was looking again at the possibility | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
of offering a vote in the event of no deal being reached. | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
But that its position was unlikely to change. | :10:22. | :10:23. | |
And, anyway, government sources have told the Sunday Politics they're not | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
That those Tory MPs who didn't back either amendment the first time | :10:27. | :10:33. | |
round would look silly if they did, this time. | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
It would have to be a pretty hefty lot of people changing their minds | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
about things that have already been discussed in quite a lot of detail, | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
last time it was in the Commons, for things to be reversed this time. | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
There's no doubt that a number of Tory MPs are very concerned. | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
Labour are pessimistic about the chances of enough Tory | :10:51. | :10:52. | |
rebels backing either of the amendments in the Commons. | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
The important thing, I think, is to focus on the fact | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
that this is the last chance to have a say on this. | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
If they're going to vote with us, Monday is the time to do it. | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
Assuming the bill does pass the Commons unamended, | :11:06. | :11:07. | |
it will go back to the Lord's on Monday night where Labour peers | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
have already indicated they won't block it again. | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
It means that the Brexit bill would become law and Theresa May | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
would be free to trigger Article 50 within days. | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
Her own deadline was the end of this month. | :11:22. | :11:23. | |
But one minister told me there were advantages to doing it early. | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
We're joined now from Nottingham by the Conservative MP Anna Soubry. | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
She's previously voted against the government on the question | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
of whether Parliament should have a final say over the EU deal. | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
Anna Soubry, I think it was clear this morning from David Davies that | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
what he means by meaningful vote is not what you mean by a meaningful | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
vote. He thinks the choice for Parliament would be to either vote | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
for the deal and if Parliament doesn't, we leave on World Trade | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
Organisation rules, on a bare-bones structure. In the end, will he | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
accept that in the Commons tomorrow? No, because my problem and I don't | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
think it is a problem, but my problem, the government's problem is | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
that what I want is then to answer this question. What happens in the | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
event of their not being any deal? David Davies made it very clear that | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
in the event of there being no deal, Parliament would have no say. It | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
means through your elected representatives, the people of this | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
country would have no say on what happens if the government doesn't | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
get a deal. I think the request that Parliament should have a say on | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
Parliamentary sovereignty, is perfectly reasonable. That is what I | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
want David to say. If he says that, I won't be rebelling. If he does... | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
They have refused to say that. Sorry. If he continues to say what | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
he said the BBC this morning, which means that the vote will be either | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
to accept the as negotiated or to leave on WTO rules, will you rebel | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
on that question but no, no, sorry, if there's a deal, Parliament will | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
have a say. So that's fine. And we will see what the deal is and we | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
will look at the options two years down the road. When who knows | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
what'll happen in our economy and world economy. That is one matter | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
which I am content on. The Prime Minister, a woman of her word has | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
said that in the event of a deal, Parliament will vote on any deal. I | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
don't difficulty. To clarify, I will come onto that. These are important | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
matters. I want to clarify, not argue with you. You are content that | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
if there is a deal, we will come under no deal in a second, but if | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
there is a deal, you are content with the choice of being able to | :13:43. | :13:49. | |
vote for that deal or leaving on WTO terms? No, you're speculating as to | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
what might happen in two years' time. What the options might be. | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
Personally I find it inconceivable that the government will come back | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
with a rubbish deal. They will either come back with a good deal, | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
which I won't have a problem with or they will come back with no deal. To | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
speculate about coming back with a deal, there is a variety of options. | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
I understand that that is what the Lord amendments are about. They are | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
about a vote at the end of the process. Do forgive me, the Lords | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
amendment is not the same that I've voted for in Parliament. What we | :14:25. | :14:26. | |
call the Chris Leslie amendment, which was talking about whatever the | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
agreement is, whatever happens at the end of the negotiations, | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
Parliament will have a vote. Parliament will have a say. The | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
Lords amendment is a bit more technical. It is the principle of no | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
deal that is agitating us. Let's clarify on this. They are | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
complicated matters. What do you want the government to say? What do | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
you want David Davis to say tomorrow on what should the Parliamentary | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
process should be if there is no deal? Quite. I want a commitment | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
from him that in the event of no deal, it will come into Parliament | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
and Parliament will determine what happens next. It could be that in | :15:03. | :15:10. | |
the event of no deal, the best thing is for us to jump off the cliff into | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
WTO tariff is. I find it unlikely but that might be the reality. There | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
might be other alternatives. Most importantly, including saying to the | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
government, go back, carry on. The question that everybody has to ask | :15:22. | :15:23. | |
is, why won't the government give My fear is what this is about is | :15:24. | :15:35. | |
asked deliberately, not the Prime Minister, but others deliberately | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
ensuring we have no deal and no deal pretty soon and in that event, we | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
jumped off the cliff onto WTO tariffs and nobody in this country | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
and the people of this country do not have a say. My constituents did | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
not vote for hard Brexit. You do not want the government to | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
have the ability if there is no deal to automatically fall back on the | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
WTO rules? Quite. It is as simple as that. We are now speculating about | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
what will happen in two years. I want to find out what happens | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
tomorrow. What will you do if you don't get that assurance? I will | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
either abstain, or I will vote to keep this amendment within the Bill. | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
I will either vote against my government, which I do not do | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
likely, I have never voted against my government until the Chris Leslie | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
clause when the Bill was going through, or I will abstain, which | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
has pretty much the same effect because it comes into the Commons | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
with both amendments so you have positively to vote to take the map. | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
Can you give us an idea of how many like-minded conservative colleagues | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
there are. I genuinely do not know. You must talk to each other. I do | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
not talk to every member of my party. You know people who are | :16:59. | :17:06. | |
like-minded. I do. I am not doing numbers games. I know you want that | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
but I genuinely do not know the figure. I think this is an | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
uncomfortable truth. People have to understand what has happened in our | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
country, two particular newspapers, creating an atmosphere and setting | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
an agenda and I think many people are rather concerned, some | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
frightened, to put their head over the parapet. There are many millions | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
of people who feel totally excluded from this process. Many of them | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
voted to remain. And they have lost their voice. We have covered the | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
ground I wanted to. We're joined now by the Ukip MEP | :17:43. | :17:44. | |
and former leader Nigel Farage. Article 50 triggered, we are leaving | :17:45. | :17:56. | |
the EU, the single market and the customs union. What is left you to | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
complain about? All of that will happen and hopefully we will get the | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
triggered this week which is good news. What worries me a little I'm | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
not sure the government recognises how strong their handers. At the | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
summit in Brussels, the word in the corridors is that we are prepared to | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
give away fishing waters as a bargaining chip and the worry is | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
what deal we get. Are we leaving, yes I am pleased about that. You are | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
under relevant voice in the deal because the deal will be voted on in | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
Parliament and you have one MP. You are missing the point, the real vote | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
in parliament is not in London but Strasbourg. This is perhaps the | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
biggest obstacle the British Government faces. Not what happens | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
in the Commons that the end of the two years, the European Parliament | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
could veto the deal. What that means is people need to adopt a different | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
approach. We do not need to be lobbying in the corridors of | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
Brussels to get a good deal, we need is a country to be out there talking | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
to the German car workers and Belgian chocolate makers, putting as | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
much pressure as we can on politicians from across Europe to | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
come to a sensible arrangement. It is in their interests more than | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
ours. In what way is the vision of Brexit set out by David Davis any | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
different from your own? I am delighted there are people now | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
adopting the position I argued for many years. Good. But now... Like | :19:26. | :19:33. | |
Douglas Carswell, he said he found David Davis' performers this morning | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
reassuring. It is. And just as when Theresa May was Home Secretary every | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
performance she gave was hugely reassuring. She was seen to be a | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
heroine after her conference speeches and then did not deliver. I | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
am concerned that even before we start we are making concessions. You | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
described in the EU's divorce bill demands, 60 billion euros is floated | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
around. You said it is laughable and I understand that. Do you maintain | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
that we will not have to pay a penny to leave? It is nine months since we | :20:10. | :20:17. | |
voted exit and assuming the trigger of Article 50, we would have paid 30 | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
billion in since we had a vote. We are still members. But honestly, I | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
do not think there is an appetite for us to pay a massive divorce | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
Bill. There are assets also. Not a penny? There will be some ongoing | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
commitments, but the numbers talked about our 50, ?60 billion, they are | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
frankly laughable. I am trying to find out if you are prepared to | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
accept some kind of exit cost, it may be nowhere near 60 billion. We | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
have to do a net agreement, the government briefed about our share | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
of the European Union investment bank. Would you accept a | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
transitional arrangement, deal, five, ten billion, as part of the | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
divorce settlement? We are painted net ?30 million every single day at | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
the moment, ?10 billion plus every year. That is just our contribution. | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
We are going to make a massive saving on this. What do you make of | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
what Anna Soubry said, that if there is no deal, and it is being talked | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
about more. Maybe the government managing expectations. There is an | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
expectation we will have a deal, but if there is no deal, that the | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
government cannot just go to WTO rules, but it has to have a vote in | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
parliament? By the time we get to that there will be a general | :21:47. | :21:48. | |
election coming down the tracks and I suspect that if at the end of the | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
two-year process there is no deal and by the way, no deal is a lot | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
better for the nation than where we currently are, because we freed of | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
regulations and able to make our own deals in the world. I think what | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
would happen, and if Parliament said it did not back, at the end of the | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
negotiation a general election would happen quickly. According to reports | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
this morning, one of your most senior aides has passed a dossier to | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
police claiming Tories committed electoral fraud in Thanet South, the | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
seat contested in the election. What evidence to you have? I read that in | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
the newspapers as you have. I am not going to comment on it. Will you not | :22:36. | :22:38. | |
aware of the contents of the dossier? I am not aware of the | :22:39. | :22:45. | |
dossier. He was your election strategists. I am dubious as to | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
whether this dossier exists at all. Perhaps the newspapers have got this | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
wrong. Concerns about the downloading of data the took place | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
in that constituency, there are. Allegedly, he has refuted it, was it | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
done by your MP to give information to the Tories, do you have evidence | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
about? We have evidence Mr Carswell downloaded information, we have no | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
evidence what he did with it. It is not just your aide who has been | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
making allegations against the Conservatives in Thanet South and | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
other seats, if the evidence was to be substantial, and if it was to | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
result in another by-election being called an Thanet South had to be | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
fought again, would you be the Ukip candidate? I probably would. You | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
probably would? Yes. Just probably? Just probably. It would be your | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
eighth attempt. Winning seats in parliament under first past the post | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
is not the only way to change politics in Britain and I would like | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
to think I proved that. Let's go back to Anna Soubry. The implication | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
of what we were saying on the panel at the start of the show and what | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
Nigel Farage was saying there would be that if at the end of the process | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
whatever the vote, if the government were to lose it, it would provoke a | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
general election properly. I think that would be right. Let's get real. | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
The government is not going to come to Parliament with anything other | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
than something it believes is a good deal and if it rejected it, would be | :24:31. | :24:39. | |
unlikely, there would be a de facto vote of no confidence and it would | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
be within the fixed term Parliaments act and that be it. The problem is, | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
more likely, because of the story put up about the 50 billion, 60 | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
billion and you look at the way things are flagged up that both the | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
Prime Minister and Boris Johnson saying, we should be asking them for | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
money back, I think the big fear and the fear I have is we will be | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
crashing out in six months. You think we could leave as quickly as | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
six months. Explain that. I think they will stoke up the demand from | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
the EU for 50, 60 billion back and my real concern is that within six | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
months, where we're not making much progress, maybe nine months, and | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
people are getting increasingly fed up with the EU because they are told | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
it wants unreasonable demands, and then the crash. I think what is | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
happening is the government is putting in place scaffolding at the | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
bottom of the cliff to break our fall when we come to fall off that | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
cliff and I think many in government are preparing not for a two-year | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
process, but six, to nine months, off the cliff, out we go. That is my | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
fear. That is interesting. I have not heard that express before by | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
someone in your position. I suspect you have made Nigel Farage's date. | :26:00. | :26:07. | |
It is a lovely thought. I would say to Anna Soubry she is out of date | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
with this. 40 years ago there was a good argument for joining the common | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
market because tariffs around the world was so high. That has changed | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
with the World Trade Organisation. We are leaving the EU and rejoining | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
a great big world and it is exciting. She was giving an | :26:25. | :26:33. | |
interesting perspective on what could happen in nine months rather | :26:34. | :26:34. | |
than two years. I thank you both. It was Philip Hammond's first | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
budget on Wednesday - billed as a steady-as-she-goes | :26:40. | :26:41. | |
affair, but turned out to cause uproar after the Chancellor appeared | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
to contradict a Tory manifesto commitment with an increase | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
in national insurance contributions. The aim was to address what some see | :26:51. | :26:52. | |
as an imbalance in the tax system, where employees pay | :26:53. | :27:01. | |
more National Insurance The controversy centres | :27:02. | :27:02. | |
on increasing the so-called class 4 rate for the self-employed who make | :27:03. | :27:05. | |
a profit of more than ?8,060 a year. It will go up in stages | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
from 9% to 11% in 2019. The changes mean that over one | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
and a half million will pay on average ?240 a year | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
more in contributions. Some Conservative MPs were unhappy, | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
with even the Wales Minister saying: "I will apologise to every | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
voter in Wales that read the Conservative manifesto | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
in the 2015 election." The Sun labelled Philip | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
Hammond "spite van man". The Daily Mail called the budget | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
"no laughing matter". By Thursday, Theresa May | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
said the government One of the first things I did | :27:43. | :27:44. | |
as Prime Minister was to commission Matthew Taylor to review the rights | :27:45. | :27:51. | |
and protections that were available to self-employed workers | :27:52. | :27:54. | |
and whether they should be enhanced. People will be able to look | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
at the government paper when we produce it, showing | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
all our changes, and take And, of course, the Chancellor will | :28:01. | :28:02. | |
be speaking, as will his ministers, to MPs, businesspeople and others | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
to listen to the concerns. Well, the man you heard mentioned | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
there, Matthew Taylor, has the job of producing | :28:13. | :28:14. | |
a report into the future Welcome. The Chancellor has decided | :28:15. | :28:27. | |
the self-employed should pay almost the same in National Insurance, not | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
the same but almost, as the employed will stop what is left of your | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
commission? The commission has a broader frame of reference and we | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
are interested in the quality of work in the economy at the heart of | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
what I hope will be proposing is a set of shifts that will improve the | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
quality of that work so we have an economy where all work is fair and | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
decent and all jobs give people scope for development and | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
fulfilment. The issue of taxes a small part. You will cover that? We | :29:00. | :29:07. | |
will, because the tax system and employment regulation system drive | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
particular behaviours in our labour market. You approve I think of the | :29:10. | :29:16. | |
general direction of this policy of raising National Insurance on the | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
self-employed. Taxing them in return perhaps for more state benefits. Why | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
are so many others on the left against it from Tim Farron to John | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
McDonnell? Tax rises are unpopular and it is the role of the opposition | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
parties to make capital from unpopular tax rises. I think as tax | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
rises go this is broadly progressive. There are self-employed | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
people on low incomes and they will be better off. It is economic league | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
rational because the reason for the difference in National Insurance -- | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
economically. It was to do with state entitlements. The government | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
is consulting about paid parental leave. A series of governments have | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
not been good about thinking about medium sustainability of the tax | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
base. Self-employment is growing. But it is eroding the tax base. It | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
is important to address those issues. A number of think tanks have | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
said this is a progressive move. Yet, a number of left-wing | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
politicians have been against it. And a number of Tories have said | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
this is a progressive move and not a Tory government move, the balance of | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
you will pay more tax, but you will get more state benefits is not a | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
Tory approach to things. That a Tory approach will be you will pay less | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
tax but entitled to fewer benefits as well. | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
I preferred in and policies to politics -- I prefer policies. When | :30:44. | :30:53. | |
people look at the policy and when they look the fact that there is no | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
real historical basis for that big national insurance differential, | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
they see it is a sensible policy. I don't have to deal with the | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
politics. There has been a huge growth in self-employment from the | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
turn of the millennium. It's been strongest amongst older workers, | :31:09. | :31:09. | |
women part-timers. Do you have any idea, do you have | :31:10. | :31:17. | |
the data in your commission that could tell us how many are taking | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
self-employment because they like the flexibility and they like the | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
tax advantages that come with it, too, or they are being forced into | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
it by employers who don't want the extra costs of employment? Do we | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
know the difference? We do, broadly. Most surveys on self-employment and | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
flexible forms of employment suggest about two thirds to three quarters | :31:43. | :31:44. | |
enjoy it, they like the flexibility, they like the autonomy and about a | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
third to one quarter are less happy. That tends to be because they would | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
like to have a full-time permanent job. It is not necessary that they | :31:54. | :31:55. | |
don't enjoy what they are doing, they would like to do other things. | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
And some of the protections that come with it? Yes. There are some | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
people who are forced into southern employees by high-risk but also some | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
people feel like they can't get a proper job as it were. -- | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
self-employment by people who hire them. It is on the narrow matter of | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
tax revenues but if you are employed on ?32,000 the state will take over | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
?6,000 in national insurance contributions, that is quite chunky. | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
If you are self-employed it is ?2300. But the big difference | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
between those figures isn't what the employee is paying, it's the | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
employer's contributions up to almost 14%, and cupped for as much | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
as you are paid. What do you do about employers' contributions for | :32:42. | :32:50. | |
the self employed? -- it is uncapped for as much. What I recommend is | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
that we should probably move from taxing employment to taxing labour. | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
We should probably have a more level playing field so it doesn't really | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
matter... Explained that I thought it was the same thing. If you are a | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
self-employed gardener, you are a different tax regime to a gardener | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
who works for a gardening firm. On the individual side and on the firm | :33:12. | :33:19. | |
side. As we see new business models, so-called gig working, partly with | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
technology, we need a more level playing field saying that we're | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
taxing people's work, not the form in which they deliver that. That is | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
part of the reason we have seen the growth of particular business | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
models. They are innovative and creative and partly driven by the | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
fact that if you can describe yourself as self-employed there are | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
tax advantages. Coming out in June? Will you come back and talk to us? | :33:44. | :33:45. | |
Yes. We say goodbye to viewers | :33:46. | :33:47. | |
in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes, | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
we'll be talking to the former Tory MP who was the root | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
of Donald Trump's allegation Hello and welcome to the Sunday | :33:58. | :34:13. | |
politics here in the glorious west Tourists bring millions | :34:14. | :34:15. | |
to the west's economy, but could some of the money plug a gap | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
in council finances? With me are two politicians | :34:23. | :34:32. | |
who could do with a few bob, they are bon Howlett | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
Conservative MP for Bath and Martin Holmwood the former Lib Dem | :34:36. | :34:37. | |
MP from Cheltenham. We'll hear from them | :34:38. | :34:39. | |
in just a moment. First, what is to become | :34:40. | :34:41. | |
of us when we get The Chancellor increased spending | :34:42. | :34:43. | |
on social care by a couple of billion this week, | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
but even some of his supporters say that is just | :34:48. | :34:49. | |
a sticking plaster. After 63 years of marriage, | :34:50. | :34:58. | |
Don and Enid Lewis need a little Because I am here | :34:59. | :35:00. | |
with him all the time. I would rather have | :35:01. | :35:13. | |
Don home than him But if we didn't have the carers, | :35:14. | :35:15. | |
he would be in the home. Somebody to get me up | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
in the morning, put me Pop in and make sure I can go | :35:23. | :35:30. | |
to the toilet in the afternoon. Four times a day, carers come in, | :35:31. | :35:43. | |
but it nearly went badly wrong. Earlier this month, the firm | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
contracted to provide the care went Over the weekend, we had very | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
few problems at all. Only four people said | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
they had a staff member It is not clear why | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
the care firm failed, but one factor could | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
have We did encourage our | :36:05. | :36:05. | |
providers to introduce national living wage which is | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
fantastic for our carers, are domiciled carers, and I understand | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
that providers have had a problem The council insists they have put | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
more money into social With elections coming up, | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
it is a sensitive time. Political rivals say | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
the system needs to It has been an accident waiting | :36:22. | :36:23. | |
to happen for too long. We would look to | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
bring it in house so that we could have some control | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
over what is happening. We wouldn't have a company | :36:30. | :36:31. | |
suddenly pulling the rug. The central Government has been | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
cutting local governments back and back and back over | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
the last few years. From the Chancellor, | :36:38. | :36:39. | |
a partial answer this Alongside additional funding, | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
the health and community secretaries will announce measures to identify | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
and support authorities which are Philip Hammond announced ?2 billion | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
extra for social care. For years, local authorities had | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
complained about the size of the Pressure including from senior | :36:58. | :37:04. | |
Conservatives across the West Country has built to | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
a crescendo fuelled Country has built to a crescendo | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
fuelled by evidence At Westminster, many MPs | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
here feel that party divisions to be set aside | :37:17. | :37:27. | |
to come up with a proper | :37:28. | :37:28. | |
long-term solution. Andrew Murrison is among a growing | :37:29. | :37:36. | |
number of Conservatives We do need to have a general | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
accommodation about the public any tax payers about how | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
we fund these things. I think the best way | :37:43. | :37:44. | |
to deal with this is to establish a commission with | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
a reasonable and fairly tight time frame so that we can discuss | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
and explode and explore all of those Find some way of finding | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
the really quite Back in Cheltenham, Don and Enid | :37:54. | :37:55. | |
are grateful for the care that they They simply hope to spend the rest | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
of their lives together. The ?2 billion of the | :38:01. | :38:07. | |
Chancellor gave in his budget to local councils, even | :38:08. | :38:16. | |
some of his supporters Like Don and Enid, my grandparents | :38:17. | :38:18. | |
who have recently died had a series of strokes, | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
they had been in homes I think 2 billion is very welcome, | :38:23. | :38:24. | |
but of course we need to be looking at the long-term shortfall | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
in social care spending and we need to be making sure this is going | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
to be financially sustainable. Thus, we need to be | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
making sure that we integrate properly health and social | :38:37. | :38:38. | |
care with housing and that is something that Bath | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
and North East Somerset council Bath and North East Somerset | :38:42. | :38:43. | |
Council's getting an extra ?2.6 million this year | :38:44. | :38:50. | |
as a result of what the Chancellor It should be able | :38:51. | :38:53. | |
to provide a lot more ?2.6 million needs to be spent | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
on the front line, to do that we need to be make sure | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
that those families who do need to | :39:03. | :39:04. | |
be cared for at home have the right system | :39:05. | :39:05. | |
in place for them to receive that at The Government's brought in this | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
national living wage which is That is going to swallow up a lot | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
of that 2.6 million, isn't it? Because the care homes | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
will have to put up In order to compensate for that, | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
the last Government before the reshuffle saw an increase in | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
the social care preceptor, as well. Which has been almost universally | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
supported in my authority and around all authorities across the rest | :39:27. | :39:27. | |
of the country which should act to We have been calling | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
for the 2 billion extra to be put into social care this year along | :39:31. | :39:38. | |
with another 2 billion for NHS and That is what we think | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
the urgent cash injection is Lib Dem MP Norman Lamb | :39:42. | :39:44. | |
has called for that. As well as that, all-party | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
talks to try and sort out This money the Chancellor | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
is providing is spread over several years, | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
so it seemed we won't be enough. The problem is the economics | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
of providing this care if county council and other budgets | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
are constantly decreasing. Care providers simply can't | :40:02. | :40:03. | |
make the numbers add up. It was, but it was | :40:04. | :40:05. | |
the Lib Dems who backed conservative austerity | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
during the coalition Government that And yet this is happening | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
on the Conservative's This has been going | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
for years, hasn't it? The NHS deficits under | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
the coalition, money was tight. Nobody was saying that everyone | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
was flushed with money, but most NHS The last two years, two | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
thirds of NHS trusts have gone into deficit, including | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
Gloucestershire and that deficit is So the funding crisis | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
in health and social care has got worse just | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
in the last two years. Nobody is saying even under | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
the coalition that we weren't flush with money, | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
but the crisis has Conservatives have taken their eye | :40:47. | :40:48. | |
off the ball and haven't appreciated the urgent cash crisis that is now | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
facing health and social care. But the budget | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
reductions were brought in and they were sort | :40:56. | :40:56. | |
of loaded so they would take effect sometime down | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
the line, won't they? Well, we differentiated | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
ourselves actually at the end of the coalition from | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
the Conservative's forward spending Where would the extra 4 billion that | :41:06. | :41:07. | |
you said we need come from? It would have to come | :41:08. | :41:15. | |
from public finances. Well, that is the urgent | :41:16. | :41:17. | |
cash injection. Government's able | :41:18. | :41:19. | |
to facilitate that. In a ?600 billion | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
budget, you can find the extra 4 billion | :41:25. | :41:26. | |
in the It is true, we need a long-term | :41:27. | :41:27. | |
funding settlement for health and social | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
care in this country. That is Norman Lamb has been | :41:32. | :41:32. | |
calling for all-party talks that will bring everybody together | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
and try and build a consensus for a The long and the short | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
of it is this has not been created by either the coalition | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
or the current Government, this is a We have had an ageing | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
population, the system hasn't However much money you | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
put into this system, Lib Democrat policy, | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
potentially borrowing more money in order | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
to do that, it will not solve | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
the ultimate problem We have do introduce | :42:01. | :42:02. | |
an integrated system. You can fiddle about with | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
the budgets, but demand is going up, so it will need for more | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
finances, won't it? We need to make sure | :42:09. | :42:15. | |
the money that is being given on the front line | :42:16. | :42:17. | |
because at the moment if you say ?400 million | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
is going to be given to | :42:21. | :42:21. | |
mental health budgets, for example, I can tell | :42:22. | :42:23. | |
you directly in that local | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
mental health trust, we are not seeing that money hitting | :42:26. | :42:26. | |
the front line. And I don't want that | :42:27. | :42:29. | |
to be subsumed into the Largely it is being | :42:30. | :42:31. | |
subsumed into the deficits which are being provided | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
and also other areas which are fashion commissioning | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
budgets and all the We do to make sure it | :42:41. | :42:42. | |
is a more efficient. Why are some conservatives | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
now wanting all-party talks to discuss how we improve | :42:46. | :42:47. | |
budgets for social care and indeed I have worked with the Department | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
of Health and labour. I've worked with the last | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
coalition Government now I I have seen all parties come to this | :42:56. | :42:57. | |
with a very party political We're not seeing much better | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
services on the front line. We have said if necessary | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
new tax has to be brought And we absolutely have, | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
the whole party has been calling We haven't taken a party | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
political position. I very much hope | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
that the Conservative select committee chair | :43:19. | :43:20. | |
Sarah Williston will be receiving the full support | :43:21. | :43:22. | |
of the Liberal Democrats and Sarah and Norman Lamb have both | :43:23. | :43:24. | |
co-operated on this, so yes. It is not likely that | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
Labour will give you the political cover to introduce | :43:29. | :43:30. | |
difficult decisions on social If they wanted to take | :43:31. | :43:32. | |
the party politics out of it and actually deliver real | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
solutions that would make a big difference to the couple that | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
you have been seen, then yes, they The trouble is that there is also | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
a cash crisis right now. We have got Clevelink | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
going bust in social care, You need that urgent cash injection | :43:46. | :43:47. | |
now and this budget has The 2 billion shortfall | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
is this year. Continued austerity means | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
council budgets are likely to be squeezed for years | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
to come, so no wonder they are looking for | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
new ways to raise money. In Bath, one idea is to tap | :44:07. | :44:09. | |
into the millions of pounds It's not hard to see why | :44:10. | :44:11. | |
tourists flock to Bath. But could they help | :44:12. | :44:20. | |
the council mend its This is something that | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
applies across Europe, I personally am used to paying it | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
when I go to holiday to It is not a large sum | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
of money, but what we will get with the number | :44:39. | :44:45. | |
of visitors that come to the city, | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
a significant increase in revenue to fill some of the gaps that are | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
created by changing finances that we The council stresses this | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
is at the very earliest stages, There is an obstacle | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
in the way of the city of Bath tapping into | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
the hundreds of thousands of tourists | :45:04. | :45:04. | |
who come here each year. The Government currently | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
won't allow it. But councillors have | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
been to London to lobby do so and a future metro mayor | :45:12. | :45:13. | |
could pile on the pressure, too. But the tourists | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
themselves, are they Would that put you off | :45:20. | :45:21. | |
coming to Bath? Because it is a beautiful place | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
and everything has to be kept up to standard, so if that is | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
the only way to do it, then that is the way | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
to do There is such a historic | :45:37. | :45:38. | |
presence to the city, ?2 a It is really expensive | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
anyway, so ?1 isn't going to make much of | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
a difference, you know. One or ?2 would be OK, but of course | :45:50. | :45:51. | |
we would prefer no extra ?2 a night might not sound much, | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
but a family of four staying All the hoteliers in | :45:55. | :46:06. | |
Bath that I have spoken It is one of the original | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
Georgian drawing rooms This boutique hotel believes | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
in such a competitive market, they would end | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
up bearing the cost. One of the things that gets quoted, | :46:24. | :46:25. | |
well it works in France and Italy. It works in those | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
countries because those countries have recognised | :46:33. | :46:33. | |
the They have made reductions | :46:34. | :46:35. | |
in their rates of VAT. The idea that you can come | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
along and just say well, we will put another pound or ?2 | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
a night onto Hotel accommodation is possibly the | :46:45. | :46:46. | |
tipping point that starts to make people go, Bath is | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
just too expensive. They also believe | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
it is wrong to target They also believe it is wrong | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
to target hotels alone They say they don't mind | :47:04. | :47:06. | |
making a contribution. They are launching | :47:07. | :47:09. | |
their own booking site with the money going back | :47:10. | :47:10. | |
into promoting tourism. All the profits from that | :47:11. | :47:12. | |
will go towards keeping It would pay for maybe | :47:13. | :47:14. | |
contribution to festivals, to the Bath preservation | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
trust, but it would be not only protect Bath, | :47:19. | :47:20. | |
but also people would buy into it. But with the council | :47:21. | :47:29. | |
still needing a change of law before they can | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
introduce a charge, tourists will remain | :47:34. | :47:35. | |
for now And to discuss that we are | :47:36. | :47:36. | |
joined by a day-tripper. He is Dominic Tristram, | :47:37. | :47:46. | |
the former Green party candidate for Bath who | :47:47. | :47:48. | |
supports a tourist tax. You're very welcome | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
on your day out here. How can you justify fleecing | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
tourists who come to Bath? As has already been | :47:57. | :47:58. | |
mentioned, we are facing a huge cut, | :47:59. | :48:00. | |
a central Government cut, We can either increase | :48:01. | :48:02. | |
council tax, which is a regressive tax where | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
the poorest pay an unfair share, | :48:10. | :48:10. | |
or we can actually put a charge How do you know that | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
they can afford it? Because the number of people | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
paying is quite high because Bath has a huge number | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
of tourists, as has been mentioned. Other cities which are similar | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
have a similar pool of tourists, Slap a charge on them | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
as they come in? Actually, I don't like to think | :48:29. | :48:39. | |
of it as a tax, I like to think of it as a tourist | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
investment fund. We can take this money and we can | :48:44. | :48:45. | |
act to make Bath a nice place to go. Because of cuts to central | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
Government grants, we can't... We are going to shortly stop | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
funding the arts in Bath. People come to Bath not | :48:54. | :48:55. | |
because of just the places to go, they come because | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
of the history, there Just before we bring | :49:00. | :49:01. | |
in the other guests, would you charged just foreign | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
visitors or all visitors? We're flexible | :49:06. | :49:07. | |
because the legislation I would not charge | :49:08. | :49:09. | |
the under tens, so families don't pay any more | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
and I would actually make it That will mean that everyone | :49:15. | :49:17. | |
who can afford to pay, If Dominic is going to charge me | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
for his next dinner party, I would probably suggest I'm not | :49:23. | :49:28. | |
going to attend, I'm afraid. But I am yet to be | :49:29. | :49:30. | |
convinced about this, the Government is yet to be | :49:31. | :49:32. | |
convinced about this. Bath in North East Somerset | :49:33. | :49:34. | |
Council have made their representations, unlike | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
what Dominic's just said, I'm quite concerned as to how progressive this | :49:38. | :49:48. | |
tax is because if you look at this being larger hotels | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
and interestingly the Queensbury would be exempt for this | :49:52. | :49:53. | |
because it is too small a number of rooms, | :49:54. | :49:55. | |
we are talking about a large hotels. Often the people who | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
attend those large hotels like the Travelodges, | :49:59. | :50:00. | |
obviously other supplies are available, those hotels actually see | :50:01. | :50:01. | |
people from less wealthy background I think slapping a tax on the people | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
would actually be very You heard the tourists | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
in Bath that, people coming from America spending | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
thousands and thousands on a European tour, | :50:12. | :50:12. | |
they think a bedroom tax in Bath | :50:13. | :50:13. | |
will make no difference whatsoever. facing the pressures at the moment, | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
I don't think it ?56 charge per No, if you are looking at the seven | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
night stay for example which we are looking | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
to introduce, ?56 is a lot if it is only Bath | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
doing this, then this is not universal across | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
the First of all, I would say that | :50:32. | :50:33. | |
Cheltenham's Lib Dem council manages to support the festivals and art | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
councils without a tourist tax at We're just about to have | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
250,000 people going to the turnstile at Cheltenham | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
racecourse next week and that brings ?100 million | :50:46. | :50:46. | |
in the local economy at the moment. I think that could be | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
more if we could encourage more of those people | :50:50. | :50:51. | |
to stay overnight in Cheltenham. I would worry that it | :50:52. | :50:54. | |
could be less if We already have a high rate of VAT | :50:55. | :50:56. | |
for tourist services in this country, it already feels quite | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
expensive I think to tourists. I don't want to see | :51:02. | :51:03. | |
that just getting But they support a lot | :51:04. | :51:05. | |
of low paid jobs? We don't just have | :51:06. | :51:19. | |
Gold Cup week, we have Jazz Festival, the science | :51:20. | :51:21. | |
Festival, the other racing By and large, it adds up, | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
it's waiters, its room cleaners. No, they spend money in local shops, | :51:27. | :51:33. | |
local restaurant, they invest in local hotels that are actually | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
investing back into the town. It is a lot of wear | :51:37. | :51:38. | |
and tear into the town. And there is a supply chain | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
to all of this that actually It is not just tourists | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
that stay overnight, in Bath we get a lot | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
of tourists coming in Bath we get a lot of tourists coming | :51:48. | :51:49. | |
in to go to the theatre, festivals and music | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
festivals, these guys will be losing out because of | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
the grant being cut. There are people who come | :51:56. | :51:57. | |
in from the States and Asia, they often stay in two or three | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
places, Bath, London, go down to Parties who believe in a free | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
market, it is interesting that they don't agree with charging the | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
maximum we can get without losing Let's bring you back | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
in on that, Ben. The supply chain is | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
benefited by tourists. If it was to cross the entirety | :52:17. | :52:18. | |
of the country, our Currently, it is only | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
our city that is If other cities decided to introduce | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
this, then our third highest overnight stay figure in the country | :52:25. | :52:33. | |
would be detrimented. You can't just say, I'll go | :52:34. | :52:35. | |
to Chippenham instead. We are helped by the | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
uniqueness because tourists want to come | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
and see that uniqueness. If we end up detriment in our image, | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
our marketing brand And it would be | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
round the rest of the world by doing this, | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
it would cause people to go to areas around | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
There is a huge hole in the public finances thanks | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
to your failed ideology of austerity. | :53:03. | :53:04. | |
Because that is what the question is. | :53:05. | :53:12. | |
It is not will it put off tourists, it is how do we | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
fix the hold that this failed Government has created in our | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
OK, we are going to have two let that question hang in the | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
Just stay with us for a moment or two because | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
let's look now back at the political week in just 60 seconds. | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
This is how the south-west MEP Lord Dartmouth | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
reacted when he was asked about wind farms on his land. | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
Three years on, it has been revealed he was | :53:41. | :53:42. | |
negotiating behind-the-scenes for a deal which could have netted his | :53:43. | :53:44. | |
The woman behind the Brexit court case, Gina Millor, | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
told students in Bristol her life had been ransacked. | :53:49. | :53:50. | |
I knew there would be a backlash, but not at the | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
It came a day before a man was charged with | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
Plans to reopen the railway line between | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
Portishead and Bristol are being scaled back. | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
The west of England partnership says the estimated cost | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
has tripled, so the route will see just one train an hour. | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
Salisbury MP John Glenn called for tougher | :54:14. | :54:15. | |
Often, they are large groups who show | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
Ministers say they will look again at whether police have enough | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
Ben, have you ever lost your temper in public? | :54:25. | :54:36. | |
I love journalists, as you well know. | :54:37. | :54:44. | |
How important is it to keep your calm when you are in the public | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
I think it is very important, actually. | :54:49. | :54:50. | |
I think nobody likes that kind of aggressive confrontational | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
One of the constant complaints about the way the House | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
of Commons is represented on TV is that it focused | :54:57. | :54:59. | |
on Prime Minister's Question Time, where you have | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
certain elements both on Labour and Conservative side, who do this | :55:05. | :55:06. | |
shouting and jeering and it is really, really bad for the | :55:07. | :55:09. | |
Maybe it is because there are too few of us at the | :55:10. | :55:17. | |
moment, but we will sort that out at the next election. | :55:18. | :55:20. | |
Do you have any sympathy with politicians who are | :55:21. | :55:22. | |
under pressure, but have to keep absolutely calm? | :55:23. | :55:32. | |
I think a lot of reasons why people feel | :55:33. | :55:34. | |
One of the reasons is that they don't | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
believe politicians think about the things | :55:38. | :55:38. | |
You have politician saying we must fixed the NHS and then they seem | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
when they hear reports of the NHS collapsing. | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
I think really a bit of anger and a bit of passion, | :55:47. | :55:48. | |
people would like to see that in their politicians. | :55:49. | :55:50. | |
Let's tend to Brexit before we leave it | :55:51. | :55:52. | |
Ben, what is going to happen with the House of Lords? | :55:53. | :55:59. | |
This is going to be a very interesting week. | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
We're about to discuss the two amendments | :56:03. | :56:03. | |
I am working currently with colleagues to make | :56:04. | :56:06. | |
sure that there are a series of concessions that are raised and I | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
will reserve my judgment as to whether on not to back the | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
Government depending on the assurances that I get. | :56:13. | :56:14. | |
As a young MP, you have got ambitions, I suspect. | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
Ultimately, I want to represent my constituents in the | :56:19. | :56:20. | |
To be frank, I have a very serious sense of | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
constitutional question about whether the Government has got this | :56:24. | :56:25. | |
right, or whether it has got it wrong, | :56:26. | :56:27. | |
and those assurances are | :56:28. | :56:28. | |
And I guess you will be backing him all the way. | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
I certainly think that the Lord amendments are trying to introduce a | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
Bit of humanity and moderation into the process will sub there is no | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
mandate for this hardline Brexit Theresa May is pursuing and if she | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
wants a mandate, then she should pursue it. Why Mac we will leave it | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
there. My thanks to my guests. Please follow us on Twitter for the | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
latest political news from the west. If you want to come you can watch | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
the programme again to your hearts content. It is available on our tee | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
Now the government plans for new grammar schools. | :57:04. | :57:19. | |
The Education Secretary Justine Greening was | :57:20. | :57:20. | |
speaking to a conference of headteachers on Friday. | :57:21. | :57:22. | |
They're normally a pretty polite bunch, but they didn't | :57:23. | :57:24. | |
Broadcasters weren't allowed into the speech, | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
but this was captured on a camera phone. | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
And we have to recognise actually for grammars, in terms of | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
disadvantaged children, that they have, they really | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
do help them close the attainment gap. | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
And at the same time we should recognise that | :57:46. | :57:47. | |
..That parents also want choice for their children and that | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
those schools are often very oversubscribed. | :57:55. | :58:02. | |
I suppose it is a rite of passage for and education secretaries to | :58:03. | :58:10. | |
have this at a head teachers conference book the head are usually | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
more polite. Isn't part of the problem, whether one is for or | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
against the expansion of grammar schools, the government plans are | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
complicated, you cannot sum them up in a sentence. The proof of that is | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
they can still get away with denying they are expanding grammar schools. | :58:30. | :58:33. | |
They will find an alternative formulation because it is not as | :58:34. | :58:36. | |
simple as a brute creation of what we used to know is grammar schools | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
with the absolute cut-off of the 11 plus. I am surprised how easy they | :58:41. | :58:48. | |
found it politically. We saw the clip of Justine Greening being | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
jeered a little bit but in the grand scheme, compared to another | :58:53. | :58:55. | |
government trying this idea a decade ago they have got away with it | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
easily and I think what is happening is a perverse consequence of Brexit | :59:01. | :59:03. | |
and the media attention on Brexit, the government of the day can just | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
about get away with slightly more contentious domestic policies on the | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
correct assumption we will be too busy investing our attention in | :59:13. | :59:18. | |
Article 50 and two years of negotiations, WTO terms at | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
everything we have been discussing. I wonder if after grammar schools | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
there will be examples of contentious domestic policies | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
Theresa May can slide in stock because Brexit sucks the life out, | :59:31. | :59:38. | |
takes the attention away. You are a supporter. Broadly. Are you happy | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
with the government approach? They need to have more gumption and stop | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
being apologetic. It is a bazaar area of public policy where we judge | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
the policy on grammar schools based on what it does for children whose | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
parents are unemployed, living on sink estates in Liverpool. It is | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
absurd, we don't judge any other policy like that. It is simple, not | :00:03. | :00:07. | |
contentious, people who are not sure, ask them if they would apply | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
to send their child there, six out of ten said they would. Parents want | :00:12. | :00:18. | |
good schools for their children, we should have appropriate education | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
and they should be straightforward, this is about the future of the | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
economy and we need bright children to get education at the highest | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
level, education for academically bright children. It is supposed to | :00:28. | :00:34. | |
be a signature policy of the Theresa May administration that marks a | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
government different from David Cameron's government who did not go | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
down this road. The signature is pretty blurred, it is hard to read. | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
It is. She is trying to address concerns about those who fail to get | :00:46. | :00:53. | |
into these selective schools and tried to targeted in poorer areas | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
and the rest of it. She will probably come across so many | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
obstacles. It is not clear what form it will take in the end. It is | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
really an example of a signature policy not fully thought through. I | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
think it was one of her first announcements. It was. It surprised | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
everybody. Surprised at the speed and pace at which they were planning | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
to go. Ever since, there have been qualifications and hesitations en | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
route with good cause, in my view. I disagree with Juliet that this is... | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
We all want good schools but if you don't get in there and you end up in | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
a less good school. They already do that. We have selection based on the | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
income of parents getting into a good catchment area, based on the | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
faith of the parents. That becomes very attainable! I might been too | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
shot run christenings for these. -- I have been. | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
Now, you may remember this time last week we were talking | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
about the extraordinary claims by US President Donald Trump, | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
on Twitter of course, that Barack Obama had ordered | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
And there was me thinking that wiretaps went out | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
Is it legal for a sitting President to do so, he asked, | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
concluding it was a "new low", and later comparing it to Watergate. | :02:02. | :02:10. | |
Since then, the White House has been pressed to provide evidence for this | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
It hasn't, but it seems it may have initially come from a report on a US | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
website by the former Conservative MP Louise Mensch. | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
She wrote that the FBI had been granted a warrant to intercept | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
communications between Trump's campaign and Russia. | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
Well, Louise Mensch joins us now from New York. | :02:33. | :02:40. | |
Louise, you claimed in early November that the FBI had secured a | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
court warrants to monitor communications between trump Tower | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
in New York at two Russian banks. It's now four months later. Isn't it | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
the case that nobody has proved the existence of this warrant? | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
First of all, forgive me Andrew, one takes 1's life in one's hand when it | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
is you but I have to correct your characterisation of my reporting. It | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
is very important. I did not report that the FBI had a warrant to | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
intercept anything or that Trump tower was any part of it. What I | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
reported was that the FBI obtained a warrant is targeted on all | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
communications between two Russian banks and were, therefore, allowed | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
to examine US persons in the context of their investigation. What the | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
Americans call legally incidental collection. I certainly didn't | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
report that the warrant was able to intercept or that it had location | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
basis, for example Trump tower. I just didn't report that. The reason | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
that matters so much is that I now believe based on the President's | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
reaction, there may well be a wiretap act Trump Tower. If so, | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
Donald Trump has just tweeted out evidence in an ongoing criminal case | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
that neither I nor anybody else reported. He is right about | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
Watergate because he will have committed obstruction of justice | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
directly from his Twitter account. Let me come back as thank you for | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
clarifying. Let me come back to the question. -- and thank you. We have | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
not yet got proof that this warrant exists, do we? No and we are most | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
unlikely to get it because it would be a heinous crime for Donald Trump | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
to reveal its existence. In America they call it a Glomar response. I | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
can neither confirm nor deny. That is what all American officials will | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
have to say legally. If you are looking for proof, you won't get it | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
until and unless a court cases brought. But that doesn't mean it | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
doesn't exist. The BBC validated this two months after me in their | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
reporting by the journalist Paul Wood. The Guardian, they also | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
separately from their own sources validated the existence of the | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
warrant. If you are in America, you would know that CNN and others are | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
reporting that the investigation in ongoing. Let me come onto the wider | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
point. You believe the Trump campaign including the president | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
were complicit with the Russians during the 2016 election campaign to | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
such an extent that Mr Trump should be impeached. What evidence did you | :05:14. | :05:14. | |
have? That is an enormous amount of | :05:15. | :05:24. | |
evidence. You could start with him saying, hey, Russia, if you are | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
listening, please release all the Hillary Clinton's e-mails. That's | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
not evidence. I think it rather is, actually. Especially if you look at | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
some of the evidence that exists on Twitter and elsewhere of people | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
talking directly to his social media manager, Dan should be no and | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
telling him to do that before it happened. There is a bit out there. | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
The BBC itself reported that in April of last year, a six agency | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
task force, not just the FBI, but the Treasury Department, was looking | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
at this. I believe there is an enormous amount of evidence. And | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
then there is the steel dossier which was included in an official | :06:01. | :06:02. | |
report of the US intelligence committee. You've also ... Just to | :06:03. | :06:11. | |
be clear, we don't have hard evidence yet whether this warrant | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
exists. It may or may not. There is doubt about... There are claims | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
about whether there is evidence about Mr Trump and the Russians. | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
That is another matter. You claimed that President Putin had Andrew | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
Breitbart murdered to pave the way for Steve Bannon to play a key role | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
in the Trump administration. I haven't. You said that Steve Bannon | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
is behind bomb threats to Jewish community centres. Aren't you in | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
danger of just peddling wild conspiracy theories? No. Festival, I | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
haven't. No matter how many times people say this, it's not going to | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
be true -- first of all. I said in twitter I believe that to be the | :06:54. | :06:55. | |
case about the murder of Andrew Breitbart. You believe President | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
Putin murdered him. I didn't! You said I reported it, but I believed | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
it. You put it on twitter that you believed it but you don't have a | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
shred of evidence. I do. Indeed, I know made assertions. What is the | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
evidence that Mr Putin murdered Andrew Breitbart? I said I believe | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
it. You may believe there are fairies at the bottom of your | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
garden, it doesn't make it true. I may indeed. And if I say so, that's | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
my belief. If I say I am reporting, as I did with the Fisa warrant | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
exists, I have a basis in fact. They believe is just a belief. I know you | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
are relatively new to journalism. Let me get the rules right. Andrew, | :07:45. | :07:51. | |
jealousy is not your colour... If it is twitter, we don't believe it but | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
if it is on your website, we should believe it? If I report something | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
and I say this happened, then I am making an assertion. If I describe a | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
belief, I am describing a belief. Subtlety may be a little difficult | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
for you... No, no. If you want to be a journalist, beliefs have to be | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
backed up with evidence. Really? Do you have a faith? It's not a matter | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
of faith, maybe in your case, that President Putin murdered Andrew | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
Breitbart. A belief and a report at two different things and no matter | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
how often you say that they are the same, they will never be the same. | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
You've said in today's Sunday Times here in London that you've turned | :08:35. | :08:42. | |
into" a temporary superpower" where you "See things really clearly". | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
Have you become delusional? No. I am describing a biological basis for | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
ADHD, which I have. As any of your viewers who are doctors will know. | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
It provides people with unfortunately a lot of scattered | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
focus, they are very messy and absent-minded but when they are | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
interested in things and they have ADHD they can have a condition which | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
is hyper focus. You concentrate very hard on a given subject and you can | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
see patterns and connections. That is biological. Thank you for | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
explaining that. And for getting up early in New York. The first time | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
ever I have interviewed a temporary superpower. Thank you. You are so | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
lucky! You are so lucky! I don't think it's going to happen again. | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
Please don't ask us to comment on that interview! I will not ask you, | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
viewers will make up their own minds. Let's come back to be more | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
mundane world of Article 50. Stop the killing! | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
Will it get through at the government wanted it? Without the | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
Lords amendment falling by the way that? I am sure the Lord will not | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
try to ping-pong this back and forth. So we are at the end of this | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
particular legislative phase. The fact that all three Brexit Cabinet | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
ministers, number ten often don't like one of them going out on a | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
broadcast interview on a Sunday, they've all been out and about. That | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
suggests to me they are working on the assumption it will be triggered | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
this week. This week. The negotiations will begin or at least | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
the process begins. The negotiation process may be difficult, given all | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
of the European elections. The Dutch this week. And then the French and | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
maybe the Italians and certainly the Germans by the end of September, | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
which is less predictable than it was. Given all that, what did you | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
make of Anna Soubry's claim, Viacom on her part, that we may just end up | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
crashing out in six months question -- fear on her part. It was not just | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
that that we made that deliberately organising. I want us to get on with | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
the deals. Everyone knows a good deal is the | :10:46. | :10:53. | |
best option. Who knows what is going to be on the table when we finally | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
go out? Fascinatingly, the demand for some money back, given the | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
amount of money... Net gains and net costs in terms of us leaving for the | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
EU. It is all to play for. That will be a possible early grounds for a | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
confrontation between the UK and the EU. My understanding is that they | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
expect to do a deal on reciprocal rights of EU nationals, EU nationals | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
here, UK citizens there, quite quickly. They want to clear that up | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
and that will be done. Then they will hit this problem that the EU | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
will be saying you've got to agree the divorce Bill first before we | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
talk about the free trade bill. David Davis saying quite clearly, | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
no, they go together because of the size of the bill. It will be | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
determined, in our part, by how good the access will be. The mutual | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
recognition of EU residents' rights is no trouble. A huge amount of fuss | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
is attracted to that subject but it is the easiest thing to deal with, | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
as is free movement for tourists. Money is what will make it | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
incredibly acrimonious. Incredibly quickly. I imagine the dominant | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
story in the summer will be all about that. This was Anna Soubry's | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
implication, members of the governors could strongly argue, | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
things are so poisonous and so unpleasant at the moment, the | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
dealers are advancing -- members of the government. Why not call it a | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
day and go out on WTO terms while public opinion is still in that | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
direction in that Eurosceptic direction? No buyers' remorse about | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
last year's referendum. The longer they leave it, view more opportunity | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
there is for some kind of public resistance and change of mind to | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
take place. The longer believe it, the more people who voted for Brexit | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
and people who voted Remain and think we didn't get world War three | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
will start being quite angry with the EU for not agreeing a deal. In | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
terms of the rights of EU nationals he and Brits abroad, by all | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
accounts, 26 of the 27 have agreed individually. Angela Merkel is the | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
only person who has held that up. That will be dealt with in a matter | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
of days. The chances of a deal being done is likely but in ten seconds... | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
It would not be a bad bet to protect your on something not happening, you | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
might get pretty good odds? The odds are going up that a deal doesn't | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
happen. But, as I said earlier, the House of Commons will not endorse no | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
deal. We are either in an early election or she has to go back | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
again. Either way, you will need us! We will be back at noon tomorrow on | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
BBC Two ahead of what looks like being a big week in politics. We | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
will be back here same time, same place. | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:34. | :14:37. | |
They're calling it an entertainment extravaganza | :14:38. | :14:45. | |
audience fun and frolics and outrageous shenanigans. | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
And I don't even know what those HONK words mean. | :14:50. | :14:53. |