19/03/2017 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire


19/03/2017

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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:35.:00:38.

She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence,

:00:39.:00:41.

After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects.

:00:42.:00:54.

With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election,

:00:55.:00:56.

Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live.

:00:57.:01:01.

NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission

:01:02.:01:04.

impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket,

:01:05.:01:08.

unless hospitals are given more cash this year.

:01:09.:01:11.

Here in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire: Providers joins me live.

:01:12.:01:17.

3,000 people will die early because of air pollution.

:01:18.:01:21.

Is it now a bigger threat to public health than obesity?

:01:22.:01:26.

All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking

:01:27.:01:37.

to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg

:01:38.:01:39.

from his party's spring conference in York.

:01:40.:01:41.

With me here in the studio, throughout the programme,

:01:42.:01:46.

three of the country's top political commentators:

:01:47.:01:48.

Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.

:01:49.:01:54.

They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp.

:01:55.:01:56.

So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up.

:01:57.:01:59.

As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU,

:02:00.:02:04.

the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum

:02:05.:02:08.

on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts

:02:09.:02:12.

to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key

:02:13.:02:15.

budget measure just one week after announcing it.

:02:16.:02:20.

Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week

:02:21.:02:22.

Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First

:02:23.:02:39.

Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise.

:02:40.:02:40.

She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK

:02:41.:02:43.

By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's

:02:44.:02:48.

future will be decided, not just by me, the

:02:49.:02:50.

Scottish Government, or the

:02:51.:02:51.

SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland.

:02:52.:02:54.

Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject

:02:55.:03:03.

amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to

:03:04.:03:07.

The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned

:03:08.:03:21.

attempts to change it and it becomes law.

:03:22.:03:23.

But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected.

:03:24.:03:30.

Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon.

:03:31.:03:32.

We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the

:03:33.:03:49.

We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling

:03:50.:03:50.

the planned rise in National Insurance for

:03:51.:04:02.

the self-employed announced the budget.

:04:03.:04:03.

It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon.

:04:04.:04:05.

The trend towards greater self-employment does create a

:04:06.:04:07.

We will bring forward further proposals

:04:08.:04:10.

but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this

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It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here.

:04:14.:04:17.

By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues

:04:18.:04:20.

fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax

:04:21.:04:23.

Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the

:04:24.:04:33.

Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending

:04:34.:04:35.

But that's not what the Prime Minister

:04:36.:04:38.

Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a

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We should be working together, not pulling apart.

:04:45.:04:49.

We should be working together to get that

:04:50.:04:51.

right deal for Scotland, that

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So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and

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so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time.

:04:58.:05:01.

Friday and time for the faithful to gather.

:05:02.:05:03.

SNP activists at their spring conference

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Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister

:05:06.:05:16.

promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain.

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At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly

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I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The

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Evening Standard and, you know, with so many

:05:29.:05:30.

big issues in our world what

:05:31.:05:32.

good analysis, great news journalism.

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It's a really important time for good journalism that The

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Evening Standard is going to provide.

:05:43.:05:44.

There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals

:05:45.:05:51.

Under my proposals we keep the Barnett

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Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the

:05:57.:05:59.

and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament.

:06:00.:06:04.

And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the

:06:05.:06:07.

What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government,

:06:08.:06:24.

Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign

:06:25.:06:29.

of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the

:06:30.:06:32.

events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with

:06:33.:06:40.

the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy

:06:41.:06:43.

periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and

:06:44.:06:49.

try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable.

:06:50.:06:53.

Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or

:06:54.:06:57.

so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily

:06:58.:07:01.

the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel

:07:02.:07:05.

more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential

:07:06.:07:09.

drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your

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original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic

:07:13.:07:17.

quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory

:07:18.:07:22.

backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school

:07:23.:07:26.

funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will

:07:27.:07:29.

get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on.

:07:30.:07:34.

Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister

:07:35.:07:38.

said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime

:07:39.:07:43.

Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done

:07:44.:07:47.

quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in

:07:48.:07:52.

frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said,

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OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has

:07:57.:07:59.

already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with

:08:00.:08:02.

Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle

:08:03.:08:07.

for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality

:08:08.:08:12.

bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same

:08:13.:08:15.

time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge

:08:16.:08:18.

to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and

:08:19.:08:25.

Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it

:08:26.:08:31.

reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is

:08:32.:08:37.

over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is

:08:38.:08:40.

how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is

:08:41.:08:44.

not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a

:08:45.:08:47.

normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more

:08:48.:08:51.

mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible

:08:52.:08:56.

workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to

:08:57.:08:59.

call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she

:09:00.:09:05.

tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a

:09:06.:09:08.

second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the

:09:09.:09:12.

rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this

:09:13.:09:15.

week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to

:09:16.:09:20.

her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She

:09:21.:09:25.

expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for

:09:26.:09:28.

her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows

:09:29.:09:34.

66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off

:09:35.:09:40.

with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second

:09:41.:09:44.

referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined

:09:45.:09:47.

with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her

:09:48.:09:51.

calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead,

:09:52.:09:55.

I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your

:09:56.:09:59.

desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a

:10:00.:10:04.

fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak

:10:05.:10:07.

opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most

:10:08.:10:12.

daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I

:10:13.:10:17.

think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an

:10:18.:10:20.

election. I don't think she has thought about how you would

:10:21.:10:23.

manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the

:10:24.:10:27.

energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning

:10:28.:10:33.

the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the

:10:34.:10:38.

small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do.

:10:39.:10:41.

Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be

:10:42.:10:45.

difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of

:10:46.:10:50.

going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't

:10:51.:10:53.

and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which

:10:54.:10:57.

is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as

:10:58.:11:00.

commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but

:11:01.:11:03.

they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in

:11:04.:11:08.

unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because

:11:09.:11:11.

she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through

:11:12.:11:14.

Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an

:11:15.:11:18.

early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write

:11:19.:11:23.

a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's

:11:24.:11:27.

box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections.

:11:28.:11:32.

The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may

:11:33.:11:35.

replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an

:11:36.:11:39.

election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself

:11:40.:11:43.

you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall

:11:44.:11:45.

see. So if Theresa May did go

:11:46.:11:46.

for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns

:11:47.:11:49.

and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we

:11:50.:12:00.

have just been talking about, executed one of the most

:12:01.:12:02.

embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a

:12:03.:12:06.

torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still

:12:07.:12:10.

so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an

:12:11.:12:14.

early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing

:12:15.:12:17.

ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that

:12:18.:12:21.

we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only

:12:22.:12:26.

challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative

:12:27.:12:32.

for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So,

:12:33.:12:38.

would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't

:12:39.:12:41.

want this government to be in power so of course if there is an

:12:42.:12:45.

opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a

:12:46.:12:48.

better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course

:12:49.:12:54.

we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote

:12:55.:12:59.

in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an

:13:00.:13:03.

opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in

:13:04.:13:07.

government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with

:13:08.:13:10.

the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very

:13:11.:13:14.

seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but

:13:15.:13:18.

would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to

:13:19.:13:22.

be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to

:13:23.:13:25.

bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the

:13:26.:13:29.

British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together

:13:30.:13:34.

Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a

:13:35.:13:38.

General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance

:13:39.:13:42.

of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an

:13:43.:13:47.

early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election?

:13:48.:13:50.

It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to

:13:51.:13:54.

dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories

:13:55.:13:58.

in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that

:13:59.:14:02.

opportunity to put that case to the British people.

:14:03.:14:05.

Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all

:14:06.:14:13.

but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one?

:14:14.:14:16.

How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of

:14:17.:14:19.

money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the

:14:20.:14:23.

Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it

:14:24.:14:28.

inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to

:14:29.:14:36.

build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We

:14:37.:14:41.

have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are

:14:42.:14:45.

taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian

:14:46.:14:49.

Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the

:14:50.:14:53.

Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the

:14:54.:14:56.

support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the

:14:57.:15:00.

electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready

:15:01.:15:04.

for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got

:15:05.:15:08.

your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the

:15:09.:15:14.

shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if

:15:15.:15:18.

there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these

:15:19.:15:21.

things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its

:15:22.:15:26.

annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates

:15:27.:15:31.

policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last

:15:32.:15:35.

Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a

:15:36.:15:39.

fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much

:15:40.:15:44.

extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going

:15:45.:15:48.

to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called.

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I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We

:15:53.:15:57.

have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out

:15:58.:16:02.

Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there

:16:03.:16:05.

hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war

:16:06.:16:09.

footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that,

:16:10.:16:15.

can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under

:16:16.:16:20.

a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have.

:16:21.:16:26.

And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an

:16:27.:16:29.

election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th

:16:30.:16:34.

of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't

:16:35.:16:40.

having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy

:16:41.:16:44.

development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think

:16:45.:16:48.

you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll

:16:49.:16:52.

ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the

:16:53.:16:58.

Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in

:16:59.:17:01.

safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long

:17:02.:17:06.

does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the

:17:07.:17:10.

Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour

:17:11.:17:14.

Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party

:17:15.:17:18.

merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in

:17:19.:17:25.

case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be

:17:26.:17:30.

talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation

:17:31.:17:34.

about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually

:17:35.:17:38.

for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting

:17:39.:17:42.

with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the

:17:43.:17:46.

prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally,

:17:47.:17:52.

given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its

:17:53.:17:56.

mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be

:17:57.:17:59.

about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17

:18:00.:18:05.

behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as

:18:06.:18:09.

an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you

:18:10.:18:13.

still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn?

:18:14.:18:18.

These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was

:18:19.:18:26.

settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years.

:18:27.:18:30.

Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it

:18:31.:18:35.

is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it

:18:36.:18:40.

is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will

:18:41.:18:45.

you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future

:18:46.:18:49.

looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds,

:18:50.:18:58.

where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit

:18:59.:19:01.

cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make

:19:02.:19:04.

sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to

:19:05.:19:06.

fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to

:19:07.:19:09.

make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour

:19:10.:19:17.

returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us.

:19:18.:19:22.

And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring

:19:23.:19:24.

conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg.

:19:25.:19:26.

Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps

:19:27.:19:35.

Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In

:19:36.:19:41.

what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not

:19:42.:19:49.

saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim

:19:50.:19:54.

Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware

:19:55.:19:58.

what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was

:19:59.:20:05.

arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound

:20:06.:20:11.

supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as

:20:12.:20:16.

Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so

:20:17.:20:21.

ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit,

:20:22.:20:25.

Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more

:20:26.:20:30.

isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach

:20:31.:20:33.

that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans

:20:34.:20:39.

to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump,

:20:40.:20:48.

Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU,

:20:49.:20:53.

nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In

:20:54.:20:57.

what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has

:20:58.:21:04.

interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote

:21:05.:21:09.

you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over

:21:10.:21:13.

the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have

:21:14.:21:18.

to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was

:21:19.:21:22.

in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not

:21:23.:21:27.

right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we

:21:28.:21:33.

have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald

:21:34.:21:39.

Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different

:21:40.:21:45.

view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not

:21:46.:21:51.

antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not

:21:52.:21:56.

aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the

:21:57.:22:00.

British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by

:22:01.:22:06.

choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing

:22:07.:22:14.

so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self

:22:15.:22:18.

harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the

:22:19.:22:21.

threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so

:22:22.:22:27.

ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view

:22:28.:22:31.

speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not

:22:32.:22:40.

challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs

:22:41.:22:45.

that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring

:22:46.:22:50.

conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long

:22:51.:22:55.

time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a

:22:56.:23:00.

realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards

:23:01.:23:05.

that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a

:23:06.:23:11.

realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want

:23:12.:23:15.

that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the

:23:16.:23:21.

recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People

:23:22.:23:25.

often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election

:23:26.:23:29.

we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we

:23:30.:23:34.

have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in

:23:35.:23:42.

Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way

:23:43.:23:49.

seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted

:23:50.:23:57.

for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling

:23:58.:24:01.

increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party

:24:02.:24:05.

because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable

:24:06.:24:08.

from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk

:24:09.:24:15.

on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite

:24:16.:24:19.

them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across

:24:20.:24:23.

parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster

:24:24.:24:28.

village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky,

:24:29.:24:32.

inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people

:24:33.:24:36.

on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the

:24:37.:24:47.

ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence

:24:48.:24:52.

to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be

:24:53.:24:57.

thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we

:24:58.:25:05.

are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the

:25:06.:25:09.

referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated

:25:10.:25:14.

ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something

:25:15.:25:18.

unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can

:25:19.:25:22.

guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the

:25:23.:25:33.

British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work

:25:34.:25:39.

out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she

:25:40.:25:43.

will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new

:25:44.:25:49.

trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of

:25:50.:25:54.

that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there

:25:55.:25:58.

will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use

:25:59.:26:03.

this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling

:26:04.:26:10.

back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or

:26:11.:26:14.

thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were

:26:15.:26:19.

promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this

:26:20.:26:25.

glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the

:26:26.:26:29.

world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of

:26:30.:26:33.

years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to

:26:34.:26:37.

take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of

:26:38.:26:42.

quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always

:26:43.:26:50.

welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is

:26:51.:26:56.

certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you

:26:57.:26:58.

spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or

:26:59.:27:05.

spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper

:27:06.:27:12.

editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's

:27:13.:27:20.

feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law

:27:21.:27:26.

against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will

:27:27.:27:30.

again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also

:27:31.:27:37.

wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in

:27:38.:27:41.

the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his

:27:42.:27:47.

self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on

:27:48.:27:52.

a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you

:27:53.:27:56.

will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us.

:27:57.:28:00.

Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been

:28:01.:28:03.

warning the health service needs more money to help it meet

:28:04.:28:06.

But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered

:28:07.:28:08.

no immediate relief, and today the head of

:28:09.:28:10.

the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds

:28:11.:28:12.

of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency

:28:13.:28:15.

care and planned operations, unless the Government

:28:16.:28:17.

Warnings over funding are not exactly new.

:28:18.:28:24.

Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens,

:28:25.:28:27.

published his plan for the future of the health service.

:28:28.:28:32.

In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England

:28:33.:28:35.

would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020.

:28:36.:28:38.

To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money

:28:39.:28:41.

from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra,

:28:42.:28:44.

and that the health service could account for the rest by making

:28:45.:28:47.

The Government says it's given the health service more than what it

:28:48.:28:55.

asked for, and that NHS in England will have received

:28:56.:28:57.

That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair

:28:58.:29:02.

of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more

:29:03.:29:05.

like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget

:29:06.:29:08.

have been cut, putting pressure on the front line.

:29:09.:29:14.

Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished

:29:15.:29:17.

the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts

:29:18.:29:19.

from the Government, the NHS is likely to record

:29:20.:29:21.

Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A

:29:22.:29:27.

departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being

:29:28.:29:29.

This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care

:29:30.:29:37.

but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn

:29:38.:29:41.

that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked

:29:42.:29:43.

And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS

:29:44.:29:49.

Providers in England, Chris Hopson.

:29:50.:29:54.

Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra

:29:55.:30:01.

money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part

:30:02.:30:06.

of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a

:30:07.:30:10.

bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so

:30:11.:30:15.

on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18

:30:16.:30:18.

billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising

:30:19.:30:22.

more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that

:30:23.:30:26.

is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS

:30:27.:30:31.

knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are

:30:32.:30:35.

somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020.

:30:36.:30:41.

Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22

:30:42.:30:50.

billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year

:30:51.:30:55.

and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25

:30:56.:31:00.

billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the

:31:01.:31:05.

2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to

:31:06.:31:09.

which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period

:31:10.:31:14.

and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen

:31:15.:31:18.

before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come

:31:19.:31:23.

onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some

:31:24.:31:27.

extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument

:31:28.:31:32.

about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this

:31:33.:31:37.

extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years?

:31:38.:31:40.

Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward

:31:41.:31:46.

view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the

:31:47.:31:49.

centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms

:31:50.:31:52.

length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was

:31:53.:31:56.

consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that

:31:57.:32:01.

the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS

:32:02.:32:06.

where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every

:32:07.:32:10.

year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able

:32:11.:32:13.

to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding

:32:14.:32:20.

increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release

:32:21.:32:24.

we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would

:32:25.:32:29.

not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in

:32:30.:32:35.

other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts

:32:36.:32:38.

Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for.

:32:39.:32:43.

Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you.

:32:44.:32:50.

How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we

:32:51.:32:53.

estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you

:32:54.:32:57.

clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour

:32:58.:33:02.

A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and

:33:03.:33:07.

operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900

:33:08.:33:11.

million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you

:33:12.:33:16.

would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of

:33:17.:33:20.

those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion

:33:21.:33:24.

on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5

:33:25.:33:29.

billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is

:33:30.:33:32.

important we should make an important distinction about the NHS

:33:33.:33:37.

versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour

:33:38.:33:41.

government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return

:33:42.:33:45.

for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution,

:33:46.:33:49.

the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery

:33:50.:33:54.

we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would

:33:55.:33:58.

want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for

:33:59.:34:01.

it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest

:34:02.:34:06.

financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going

:34:07.:34:10.

up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand

:34:11.:34:16.

go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I

:34:17.:34:21.

think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going

:34:22.:34:24.

to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I

:34:25.:34:29.

think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS

:34:30.:34:33.

as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have

:34:34.:34:37.

got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36

:34:38.:34:42.

office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to

:34:43.:34:47.

1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know

:34:48.:34:52.

in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the

:34:53.:34:57.

last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement

:34:58.:35:00.

gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25

:35:01.:35:07.

billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But

:35:08.:35:11.

having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where

:35:12.:35:14.

there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it

:35:15.:35:20.

for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its

:35:21.:35:24.

contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as

:35:25.:35:28.

efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for

:35:29.:35:33.

you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise

:35:34.:35:37.

those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would

:35:38.:35:41.

go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a

:35:42.:35:45.

deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the

:35:46.:35:48.

moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release

:35:49.:35:53.

land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts

:35:54.:36:05.

which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous

:36:06.:36:06.

organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales.

:36:07.:36:09.

Have you raised that with the government?

:36:10.:36:09.

Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard

:36:10.:36:21.

somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big

:36:22.:36:26.

salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for

:36:27.:36:31.

the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more

:36:32.:36:34.

money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being

:36:35.:36:37.

properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And

:36:38.:36:42.

yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in

:36:43.:36:50.

a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I

:36:51.:36:52.

have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight

:36:53.:36:55.

in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community,

:36:56.:36:58.

mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most

:36:59.:37:01.

complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to

:37:02.:37:06.

be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we

:37:07.:37:09.

should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid

:37:10.:37:13.

are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion

:37:14.:37:18.

a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There

:37:19.:37:26.

was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the

:37:27.:37:29.

problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need

:37:30.:37:33.

and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having

:37:34.:37:36.

to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem

:37:37.:37:41.

and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those

:37:42.:37:47.

amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas

:37:48.:37:51.

is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you

:37:52.:37:56.

could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication,

:37:57.:37:59.

what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government

:38:00.:38:05.

has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing

:38:06.:38:09.

funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can

:38:10.:38:13.

I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the

:38:14.:38:19.

first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we

:38:20.:38:24.

can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work

:38:25.:38:29.

in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very

:38:30.:38:33.

important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the

:38:34.:38:36.

financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being

:38:37.:38:41.

asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of

:38:42.:38:44.

time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me.

:38:45.:38:46.

It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:38:47.:38:48.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:38:49.:38:50.

Hello, you're watching the Sunday politics

:38:51.:39:00.

Hello, you're watching the Sunday Politics

:39:01.:39:05.

Coming up today: We ask, is air pollution now a bigger threat

:39:06.:39:09.

We meet the father who is convinced pollution contributed

:39:10.:39:12.

My son was a statistic and now I believe it was due to,

:39:13.:39:17.

in part or mostly to do with pollution in this

:39:18.:39:19.

And we meet the campaigners who are fighting to put

:39:20.:39:27.

brain tumours at the top of the cancer funding queue.

:39:28.:39:38.

We are joined today by Natalie Bennett, the former

:39:39.:39:40.

leader of the Green Party, the Green candidate

:39:41.:39:42.

in the Sheffield Central parliamentary constituency.

:39:43.:39:48.

And by Graham Stuart, Conservative MP for Beverley and Holderness.

:39:49.:39:50.

And also by Paula Sherriff, Labour MP for Dewsbury.

:39:51.:39:53.

3,000 people living in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire are expected to die

:39:54.:39:56.

One charity involved in campaigning for more intervention says it's

:39:57.:40:01.

Richard Edwards has been to meet a man who took to politics

:40:02.:40:08.

after being convinced that his baby son died because of air pollution

:40:09.:40:11.

Muzafa Rahman was born just a few streets away from one

:40:12.:40:18.

Each day, thousands of vehicles use these roads and Muzafa is convinced

:40:19.:40:24.

the pollution left behind is to blame for the early

:40:25.:40:27.

My son, who was 15 months old, when he was a baby I was working

:40:28.:40:33.

in Meadowhall and I would often take him in his pram

:40:34.:40:37.

and on a nice day's walk through the subways,

:40:38.:40:41.

through the link, around this beautiful roundabout

:40:42.:40:44.

where the greenery is, not knowing that I was exposing him

:40:45.:40:47.

to a great disease that would eventually take his life.

:40:48.:40:53.

I'm convinced that the virus he contracted through

:40:54.:40:55.

the failure of his heart was related to pollution.

:40:56.:41:02.

Cameron died in 1990, when research into casualties from air pollution

:41:03.:41:05.

But 27 years on, there are official concerns.

:41:06.:41:11.

Just two months ago, the government's Highways England

:41:12.:41:13.

began looking at cutting speed limits on the M1, which in turn it

:41:14.:41:16.

And it's not just a problem in South Yorkshire.

:41:17.:41:22.

Today, few people would deny that pollution is an issue.

:41:23.:41:25.

This is an air-quality management area in Leeds,

:41:26.:41:28.

a place where the problem is so bad, the council is taking urgent

:41:29.:41:31.

A study suggests that 700 people will lose their lives

:41:32.:41:37.

this year alone in Leeds from breathing dirty air.

:41:38.:41:41.

Separate research shows that in just one year,

:41:42.:41:43.

3,000 people across our region died after breathing dirty air.

:41:44.:41:49.

Environmental charity Global Action Plan says the risk

:41:50.:42:02.

to our health from breathing polluted air is huge.

:42:03.:42:05.

We understand that air pollution is a significant risk to public

:42:06.:42:08.

And we know that the equivalent figure in terms of deaths is around

:42:09.:42:14.

40,000 equivalent deaths per year as the overall impact of air

:42:15.:42:16.

In this city of Wakefield, official figures show 178 people

:42:17.:42:24.

died prematurely in just one year from breathing polluted air.

:42:25.:42:30.

It's a concern for the city's MP, who also happens to chair

:42:31.:42:32.

the powerful parliamentary committee that looks at the environment.

:42:33.:42:36.

We're worried about the threat to public health from Britain's

:42:37.:42:38.

We think the government's actions have been too little and too late.

:42:39.:42:46.

They have had an air pollution plan which has been deemed illegal

:42:47.:42:49.

We're waiting for April to see what their new plan is going to be.

:42:50.:42:55.

They have failed to produce an emissions reductions strategy

:42:56.:42:58.

to look at how we deal with this issue across society.

:42:59.:43:03.

There are emissions coming out of construction sites

:43:04.:43:05.

and from all sorts of other areas as well as cars and vans.

:43:06.:43:09.

And the problem is not confined to urban areas.

:43:10.:43:12.

This is semirural Pool in Wharfedale, where pollution

:43:13.:43:16.

levels in the main street are so high, the council is taking

:43:17.:43:19.

I have an inhaler because I suffer with asthma.

:43:20.:43:23.

I've actually started using it a lot more since we've moved back to Pool.

:43:24.:43:27.

He's still only nine and it's not a daily struggle,

:43:28.:43:31.

but I'd like to know how pollution would affect that type of disease

:43:32.:43:34.

Contacted by the Sunday Politics, the government's department

:43:35.:43:41.

for environment says it's spent more than ?2 billion since 2011

:43:42.:43:45.

to encourage people to use greener transport and is committed

:43:46.:43:49.

to spending another ?290 million to support electric cars

:43:50.:43:53.

If you want to know more about pollution and how to reduce

:43:54.:44:01.

it, check out the BBC website, where there are lots of articles

:44:02.:44:04.

and films following our recent So I Can Breathe campaign.

:44:05.:44:09.

Natalie Bennett, short of banning cars and making us walk everywhere,

:44:10.:44:12.

how do you reduce the health risks from pollution?

:44:13.:44:16.

There's a whole range of measures we can take and that starts

:44:17.:44:18.

That means we've got to really look at encouraging support in things

:44:19.:44:24.

In the Sheffield Green Party, we had a measure in our Budget

:44:25.:44:30.

which sadly didn't go through that would have helped encourage

:44:31.:44:32.

and support taxi drivers, independent business people,

:44:33.:44:35.

But we've also got to reduce the amount of transport.

:44:36.:44:42.

That means not saying to people you can't use your car,

:44:43.:44:45.

it means saying to people there's a wonderful walking and cycling

:44:46.:44:48.

route over there, it means saying to people there's great public

:44:49.:44:50.

transport that's affordable, convenient, reliable.

:44:51.:44:54.

Make that offer to people, people will use that and that

:44:55.:44:57.

will naturally reduce our congestion to the benefit of all of us.

:44:58.:45:00.

Graham Stuart, many of our cities, including Sheffield, Leeds and Hull,

:45:01.:45:02.

have dangerous levels of air pollution.

:45:03.:45:04.

Do you think the government is taking it seriously enough?

:45:05.:45:07.

I think the government, successive governments

:45:08.:45:09.

There is going to be a new plan coming out on April 24 and that

:45:10.:45:15.

The government doesn't have an emission reduction scheme.

:45:16.:45:23.

As I say, we're going to see the next version of the plan,

:45:24.:45:27.

the one that was struck down before, in April.

:45:28.:45:29.

The good news is, if you look back over history, the number

:45:30.:45:36.

of emissions has actually come down massively.

:45:37.:45:39.

We're much better than we used to be and the government has signed

:45:40.:45:42.

up to something called the Gothenburg Protocol, which

:45:43.:45:44.

Actually, it means that by 2020, legally, we'll be obliged

:45:45.:45:51.

to bring our emissions down and even further by 2030.

:45:52.:45:54.

But a lot more needs to be done and the government

:45:55.:45:56.

I agree entirely with the key points Natalie made.

:45:57.:46:00.

It is worth saying the government has been forced into the position

:46:01.:46:03.

It's taken legal action by an NGO to force the government into action

:46:04.:46:09.

We live in a largely industrial region.

:46:10.:46:15.

People need their cars and their vans to get to work.

:46:16.:46:19.

We need much more than warm words from the government.

:46:20.:46:24.

38 out of the 43 directives have actually been failed at the moment.

:46:25.:46:28.

A High Court judge recently described the Defra plan

:46:29.:46:31.

We'll wait to see what comes in April, but I think we need to be

:46:32.:46:36.

looking at measures, including what Natalie alluded

:46:37.:46:38.

to around using public transport and incentivising scrappage schemes

:46:39.:46:40.

for older vehicles and diesel vehicles.

:46:41.:46:45.

Also lifestyle factors including encouraging people

:46:46.:46:48.

when they are sitting outside schools to ensure their

:46:49.:46:51.

There is a direct correlation between air pollution

:46:52.:46:55.

One road in Brixton in London has already surpassed its pollution

:46:56.:47:01.

target for the year within the first five days of 2017.

:47:02.:47:09.

No more warm words from the government, we need some action

:47:10.:47:12.

The Transport Secretary, Chris Grayling, recently said,

:47:13.:47:17.

surprising a lot of people, that people should take

:47:18.:47:19.

a long, hard think before buying a diesel vehicle.

:47:20.:47:21.

Do you think diesel vehicles should be banned?

:47:22.:47:26.

I think what we need to do is move towards electric vehicles.

:47:27.:47:32.

The problem is we have a huge problem with

:47:33.:47:34.

One of the things we need to focus on, that we haven't seen

:47:35.:47:38.

enough discussion of, is the fact that air

:47:39.:47:40.

pollution within a vehicle is about twice as bad

:47:41.:47:42.

People tend to focus on walkers and cyclists being exposed

:47:43.:47:46.

to this air pollution, but on average it's about twice

:47:47.:47:49.

This is a real issue of industrial safety.

:47:50.:47:53.

We think of all those taxi drivers who spend their working life sitting

:47:54.:47:56.

We have people exposed, van drivers, it's very much in their health

:47:57.:48:03.

Governments have been telling us for years, in recent years,

:48:04.:48:10.

that diesels are better for the environment.

:48:11.:48:13.

Now the current government says don't buy diesels!

:48:14.:48:17.

It was the last Labour government, unfortunately from the scientific

:48:18.:48:20.

advice they had at the time, who encouraged the sale of diesels.

:48:21.:48:23.

You can understand why consumers are feeling that on the one hand

:48:24.:48:26.

you tell me to buy one, the next minute you tell me I'm

:48:27.:48:29.

One positive note, as this is a Yorkshire programme.

:48:30.:48:33.

In the East Riding of Yorkshire, when I spoke to the council today,

:48:34.:48:36.

across the East Riding, which is a very large council area,

:48:37.:48:39.

there are no particular blackspots at the moment.

:48:40.:48:43.

The air is pretty clean across the East Riding.

:48:44.:48:46.

The big problem remains in our urban areas and that's why

:48:47.:48:49.

the government is piloting, across five cities, including Leeds,

:48:50.:48:52.

having special areas to encourage and get the vehicles

:48:53.:48:54.

Finally on this, a lot of big cities are bringing in clean air zones.

:48:55.:49:04.

Would you like to see restrictions in somewhere like Dewsbury

:49:05.:49:08.

where older polluting vehicles would be banned from the town?

:49:09.:49:10.

There's a couple of areas in my constituency that come to mind

:49:11.:49:15.

straightaway where this is a huge problem.

:49:16.:49:17.

In terms of diesel vehicles, I don't think it would be problematic to say

:49:18.:49:25.

In terms of diesel vehicles, I don't think it would be pragmatic to say

:49:26.:49:29.

we are going to stop all diesel vehicles from tomorrow,

:49:30.:49:31.

but if we gradually try and phase them out, plus the older vehicles

:49:32.:49:34.

Let's get some more of the week's political news now.

:49:35.:49:38.

Trudy has our round-up in 60 seconds.

:49:39.:49:44.

West Yorkshire's Yvette Cooper led the charge on the government's

:49:45.:49:47.

U-turn over national insurance and suggested another U-turn

:49:48.:49:49.

The Prime Minister has just done a ?2 million Budget U-turn

:49:50.:49:57.

The Prime Minister has just done a ?2 billion Budget U-turn

:49:58.:50:00.

Is that why they want to abolish spring Budgets, because they just

:50:01.:50:04.

Ripping up and starting again is what the Orgreave campaigners

:50:05.:50:08.

They protested outside her office to demonstrate the fact.

:50:09.:50:11.

They want her to change her mind and hold a public

:50:12.:50:14.

inquiry into the so-called Battle of Orgreave.

:50:15.:50:16.

Scarborough MP and Immigration Minister Robert Goodwill

:50:17.:50:18.

was involved in a skirmish when the government pledge to reduce

:50:19.:50:21.

immigration came under fire from Neil Parish,

:50:22.:50:25.

the Conservative chair of the Environment, Food

:50:26.:50:26.

Never in our lifetime, Robert was told.

:50:27.:50:32.

And the 2015 battlebus tour lead to a fine for the Conservatives

:50:33.:50:35.

Lincoln's MP, Karl McCartney, says he acted honestly and is cooperating

:50:36.:50:40.

Let me ask Graham Stuart on that, how worried are you?

:50:41.:50:49.

You could see your fellow Conservative MPs in the dock

:50:50.:50:52.

and effectively elections being rerun over this so-called

:50:53.:50:53.

Let's be clear, no Conservative MP, or Labour or Liberal Democrat

:50:54.:51:00.

When they are, it might be a different matter.

:51:01.:51:07.

There have been breaches by each of the major political parties.

:51:08.:51:10.

It's obviously a serious issue and we need to ensure,

:51:11.:51:15.

for public confidence, that compliance with the rules

:51:16.:51:19.

is absolute and that this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

:51:20.:51:23.

The Electoral Commission did fine the Conservative Party

:51:24.:51:25.

There does need to be a clearer distinction about how much can be

:51:26.:51:29.

spent on local election campaigns and how much can be

:51:30.:51:32.

Every party has historically taken its national buses and put it

:51:33.:51:36.

It's led to the situation where they say you should be

:51:37.:51:44.

The rules are a little unclear and while accepting the criticism,

:51:45.:51:50.

as I know the Conservative Party does, it's also said that greater

:51:51.:51:53.

clarity on the rules to make sure that it's easy to follow

:51:54.:51:56.

for everybody concerned would be the right approach.

:51:57.:51:58.

What's been the story of the week for you, Natalie Bennett?

:51:59.:52:01.

Probably looking at the general state of disarray of

:52:02.:52:03.

The national insurance backdown, which was a huge step

:52:04.:52:07.

for a Chancellor to turn around and disavow something he'd said less

:52:08.:52:10.

We've got a government with a tiny majority that really doesn't

:52:11.:52:15.

It won the support of 24% of eligible voters at the last

:52:16.:52:20.

election on a manifesto that assumed we would stay part of the EU.

:52:21.:52:23.

We really are in a state of turmoil and, desperately

:52:24.:52:26.

for democracy in Britain, we need an election.

:52:27.:52:29.

How would you sum up the political week?

:52:30.:52:31.

We've obviously seen the significant U-turn of the government's flagship

:52:32.:52:37.

Budget policy that lasted just a week.

:52:38.:52:38.

I thought you were talking about Jeremy Corbyn's response!

:52:39.:52:41.

I thought you were going to join everyone else

:52:42.:52:44.

I'm talking about the fact that you do appear to be

:52:45.:52:48.

We've seen access to the single market has gone.

:52:49.:52:51.

I've just found out that my constituency is the second

:52:52.:52:53.

worst in the country, on schools policy, in terms

:52:54.:52:56.

of the budgets that have been cut for schools.

:52:57.:52:58.

Schools are telling me they are having to let staff go,

:52:59.:53:02.

This is going to have a huge legacy problem for our children.

:53:03.:53:09.

On the schools funding, there is potential for

:53:10.:53:11.

The government has consulted on the new funding formula.

:53:12.:53:20.

At a time of constraint, it's very difficult to do redistribution.

:53:21.:53:23.

That is going ahead and I expect the government to go

:53:24.:53:26.

through with that and ensure that those areas which have been

:53:27.:53:29.

historically underfunded get a fairer share of the cake.

:53:30.:53:33.

In my area, which is one of the lowest funded

:53:34.:53:35.

in the whole country, 40 out of 50 schools

:53:36.:53:37.

?7 million a year extra will go to local schools

:53:38.:53:41.

in Beverley and Holderness and across the East Riding

:53:42.:53:43.

In my area, 50 out of 50 schools will lose out.

:53:44.:53:49.

David Cameron explicitly said in your 2015 manifesto that real

:53:50.:53:52.

terms funding would be protected for schools.

:53:53.:53:57.

How do you explain how 50 out of 50 schools in my constituency

:53:58.:54:00.

Because it's about the overall budget and I think you would agree,

:54:01.:54:06.

as someone who campaigns for fairness, that it's

:54:07.:54:08.

about taking a finite budget, albeit one that is protected,

:54:09.:54:12.

and making sure it's fairly distributed across the country.

:54:13.:54:15.

There was no way the existing formula was fair.

:54:16.:54:18.

It was broken, it saw areas like Barnsley,

:54:19.:54:20.

one of the worst funded in the whole country.

:54:21.:54:23.

Some parts of London could be ?1,500 per pupil

:54:24.:54:25.

separate when they are a few hundred yards apart.

:54:26.:54:27.

The thing was broken, that was a legacy of the Labour

:54:28.:54:29.

government and this government is right and courageous,

:54:30.:54:31.

it's politically difficult, to come forward and say no,

:54:32.:54:34.

we've got to treat every child the same, we have to give

:54:35.:54:36.

That's the centre of all our educational policy.

:54:37.:54:40.

What would you say to my teachers who are saying to me we cannot run

:54:41.:54:43.

the school with the proposed funding we are due to receive?

:54:44.:54:47.

If you have historically been overfunded compared to areas

:54:48.:54:51.

like East Yorkshire, if that is what is behind

:54:52.:54:54.

the changes, I would say unless we have a magic money tree,

:54:55.:54:56.

and I know Jeremy Corbyn does but nobody else does...

:54:57.:55:02.

We are still spending more on the interest on the debt

:55:03.:55:04.

That is a huge debate and we'll have to come back to it another time.

:55:05.:55:15.

This week, the Commons Speaker John Bercow hosted a reception,

:55:16.:55:17.

the latest in his long association with the brain tumour research

:55:18.:55:20.

charity, which is campaigning for better funding to help

:55:21.:55:22.

the hundreds of people diagnosed every year.

:55:23.:55:24.

It's claimed the disease kills more people under 40

:55:25.:55:29.

than any other cancer, but gets just 1% of the funding.

:55:30.:55:34.

Len Tingle has been to meet two women, one from Lincolnshire,

:55:35.:55:37.

one from Yorkshire, who say it's time for change.

:55:38.:55:42.

research into brain tumours and has research into brain tumours and has

:55:43.:55:49.

written a book on the subject. It's a remarkable achievement. In 2008,

:55:50.:55:55.

she herself was diagnosed with a tumour and was given a maximum of

:55:56.:55:59.

three years to live. On good days like today I'm pretty much OK.

:56:00.:56:04.

Sometimes people wouldn't even know. On bad days I can't even get out of

:56:05.:56:10.

bed. I have chronic migraines. It paralyse is the right hand side of

:56:11.:56:17.

my body. If I'm tired or stressed. I try to keep my trust levels down and

:56:18.:56:23.

get regular rest. Now in her six years since diagnosis, she has had

:56:24.:56:28.

extensive brain surgery, chemotherapy and is constantly in

:56:29.:56:32.

and out of hospital. That manages the condition, but she knows there

:56:33.:56:38.

is no cure. I'm lucky. I'm not too disabled, but some people are very

:56:39.:56:42.

disabled. They lose speech, mobility. It takes 30 years from

:56:43.:56:49.

their quality-of-life. There needs to be more research into treatment.

:56:50.:56:57.

We need to speed it up. A lot of us won't be around for years down the

:56:58.:57:03.

line. In a recent report to MPs, the charity brain tumour research said

:57:04.:57:08.

since 2002 there's been a 13% increase in the number of tumours

:57:09.:57:12.

diagnosed in the UK. In the same period just 1% of funding for all

:57:13.:57:17.

counts of research is devoted to brain tumours. That's been noticed

:57:18.:57:23.

in Leeds. This is one of the UK's leading research centres, partially

:57:24.:57:29.

funded by Macmillan, the NHS and the Leeds teaching hospitals trust.

:57:30.:57:32.

There are big contributions from surgeons. People are trying across

:57:33.:57:39.

the world to study brain cancer and the underlying causes and trying to

:57:40.:57:44.

work out why they keep coming back. The reality is we need more research

:57:45.:57:49.

and that requires more funding. What brain tumour research hasn't

:57:50.:57:53.

attracted in the same way that breast cancers have over the last

:57:54.:57:59.

ten to 15 years is big injections of funding for powering research and

:58:00.:58:03.

bettering our understanding. Lisa also has an inoperable tumour. Last

:58:04.:58:08.

week she travelled from her home in Baildon to join other patients and

:58:09.:58:13.

their families lobbying government for more research funding. She says

:58:14.:58:19.

for many time is running out. I've lost lots of friends I've met

:58:20.:58:22.

through this process with brain tumours. We are like a little gang.

:58:23.:58:28.

We keep losing people. We need something to come fast. These

:58:29.:58:36.

patients want a chilling -- an improvement in a chilling statistic

:58:37.:58:40.

they all confront everyday. Brain tumours are now the biggest cause of

:58:41.:58:46.

death in cancer sufferers under the age of 40.

:58:47.:58:49.

Emotive issue. Let me ask you to react to that statistic that brain

:58:50.:58:53.

tumours kill more people under 40 than any other cancer but attract

:58:54.:58:58.

just 1% of funding of research. It's shocking that only 1% of the funding

:58:59.:59:04.

goes to brain tumours. It is right that we have to rely on charities to

:59:05.:59:14.

find that money. There's a five-year-old boy in my constituency

:59:15.:59:17.

who is sadly suffering from a rare, inoperable brain tumour. The family

:59:18.:59:20.

are fundraising to look at alternative forms of treatment. It's

:59:21.:59:25.

very, very worrying. Brain tumours need more funding. I welcome charity

:59:26.:59:37.

donations. Absolutely. Nearly 1.5 billion is spent on cancer research

:59:38.:59:41.

from people giving. They put it into cancer research and it makes a

:59:42.:59:45.

difference. The piece shows the argument why a greater level of

:59:46.:59:49.

funding could go to brain tumours. We have to say well done to Fiona

:59:50.:59:53.

and Lisa and people battling for their own health while also

:59:54.:59:57.

struggling and campaigning. We need from the government and evidence

:59:58.:00:01.

-based allocation of money. The money should go according to the

:00:02.:00:06.

level of need. You all have massive health issues in the areas you

:00:07.:00:11.

represent. Give as one example of the state of the NHS in the areas

:00:12.:00:17.

you represent. In my area they are downgrading to use hospital and

:00:18.:00:22.

there is a proposal to close Huddersfield A It would leave the

:00:23.:00:27.

population of Kirklees without a comprehensive A People would have

:00:28.:00:33.

to travel. The A around that area aren't coping. We are seeing 12 hour

:00:34.:00:37.

trolley waits, people waiting just to be seen, people treated in

:00:38.:00:44.

corridors, waiting rooms. It's in crisis. I worked in the NHS for 13

:00:45.:00:50.

years before I was an MP and I still often speak to health professionals,

:00:51.:00:54.

people on the front line of the NHS, and they tell me it's a crisis

:00:55.:00:58.

point. You have a number of minor injury units closing in your

:00:59.:01:03.

constituency. The overall picture is with the ?10 billion extra. Isn't

:01:04.:01:09.

that. Funding is declining in real terms. The budget is going up by ?10

:01:10.:01:16.

billion and specifically the Labour Party refused to match it. Demand is

:01:17.:01:21.

growing even faster, putting pressure on services. The NHS has

:01:22.:01:25.

never delivered better outcomes. Last word to Natalie Bennett. This

:01:26.:01:32.

government is planning to spend 6.6% of GDP on health care by 2020.

:01:33.:01:39.

France and Germany spend 11%. We spend 30% less than Germany does

:01:40.:01:43.

now. There's not enough money in the NHS. The other problem is

:01:44.:01:48.

privatisation of the NHS. A lot of issues. Thank you for your thoughts.

:01:49.:01:52.

We shall now had you back you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back

:01:53.:01:55.

to you. So, can George Osborne stay

:01:56.:02:01.

on as a member of Parliament Will Conservative backbenchers force

:02:02.:02:04.

a Government re-think And is Theresa May about to cap gas

:02:05.:02:08.

and electricity prices? Whose idea was that first of all?

:02:09.:02:22.

They are all questions for the Week Ahead to.

:02:23.:02:27.

Let's start with the story that is too much fun to miss, on Friday it

:02:28.:02:32.

was announced the former Chancellor would be the new editor of London's

:02:33.:02:36.

Evening Standard newspaper, a position he will take up in mid-May

:02:37.:02:43.

on a salary of ?200,000 for four days a week.

:02:44.:02:48.

But Mr Osborne has said he will not be stepping down as MP

:02:49.:02:51.

for Tatton in Cheshire, a job he's held since 2001,

:02:52.:02:53.

Alongside these duties, he's also chairman of

:02:54.:02:56.

While being committed to one day a week at Black Rock,

:02:57.:03:02.

an American asset management firm - a part-time role that earns him

:03:03.:03:05.

Then he's polishing his academic credentials, as a fellow

:03:06.:03:10.

at the McCain Institute, an American thinktank,

:03:11.:03:12.

And finally as a member of the Washington Speaker's Bureau,

:03:13.:03:20.

he also earns his keep as an after-dinner speaker, banking

:03:21.:03:26.

around ?750,000 since last summer.

:03:27.:03:31.

So there you go. Nice little earners if you can get them. The problem,

:03:32.:03:40.

though, is he has put second jobs on the agenda and lots of his fellow

:03:41.:03:44.

MPs are not happy because they have got second jobs but not making that

:03:45.:03:49.

kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs on both sides actually are unhappy

:03:50.:03:53.

about it exactly for those reasons. I find it a very interesting

:03:54.:03:58.

appointment. We have got these people on the centre and centre

:03:59.:04:02.

right of politics who have been used to power since 1997, they have been

:04:03.:04:06.

on the airwaves today, Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they

:04:07.:04:11.

are all seeking other platforms now because power has moved elsewhere.

:04:12.:04:16.

So Tony Blair is setting up this new foundation, Nick Clegg refused to

:04:17.:04:19.

condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair praised the appointment. They are

:04:20.:04:26.

all searching for new platforms. They might have overestimated the

:04:27.:04:29.

degree to which this will be a huge influential platform. The standard

:04:30.:04:35.

was very pro-Tory at the 2015 election but London voted Labour, it

:04:36.:04:40.

was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they elected Sadiq Khan. It might be

:04:41.:04:43.

overestimating the degree to which this is a hugely influential paper.

:04:44.:04:49.

But I can see why it attracts him as a platform when all these platforms

:04:50.:04:54.

have disappeared, eg power and government. All of these people who

:04:55.:05:00.

used to be in power are quietly getting together again, Mr Blair on

:05:01.:05:04.

television this morning, George Osborne not only filling his bank

:05:05.:05:07.

account but now in charge of London's most important newspaper,

:05:08.:05:13.

Nick Clegg out today not saying Brexit was a done deal, waiting to

:05:14.:05:18.

see what happens, even John Major was wheeled out again today in the

:05:19.:05:22.

Mail on Sunday. They are all playing for position. I half expect David

:05:23.:05:26.

Cameron to turn up as features editor on The Evening Standard.

:05:27.:05:33.

Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg, did he not? I do not think this is

:05:34.:05:38.

sustainable for George Osborne, I worked at The Evening Standard and I

:05:39.:05:41.

was there for three years, I know what the hours are like for a humble

:05:42.:05:45.

journalist, never mind the editor. If he thinks he can get at 4am

:05:46.:05:49.

everyday to be in the offices at 5am to oversee the splash, manage

:05:50.:05:54.

everything in the way and edited should he is in cloud cuckoo land.

:05:55.:05:58.

What this says to people is there is a kind of feel of soft corruption

:05:59.:06:02.

about public life here, where you see what you can get away with. He

:06:03.:06:06.

thinks he can brazen this out and maybe he can but what kind of

:06:07.:06:10.

message does that send to people about how seriously people take the

:06:11.:06:15.

role of being an MP? He must have known. He applied for the job. The

:06:16.:06:20.

Russian owner didn't approach him, he approached Lebedev, the

:06:21.:06:25.

proprietor, for it. He must have calculated there would be some

:06:26.:06:29.

kickback. I wonder if he realised there would be quite the kickback

:06:30.:06:33.

there has been. I think that's probably right. This hasn't finished

:06:34.:06:37.

yet, by the way, this will go on and on. How on earth does George Osborne

:06:38.:06:42.

cover the budget in the autumn? Big budget, lots of physical changes and

:06:43.:06:46.

tax rises to deal with the messages out of this week. You can see

:06:47.:06:51.

already, Theresa May budget crashes. It could be worse. She's useless!

:06:52.:06:58.

Or, worse than that, me, brilliant budget, terrible newspaper, I've

:06:59.:07:03.

never buying it again. He has hoisted his own petard. He has not

:07:04.:07:07.

bought it properly through. It's a something interesting about his own

:07:08.:07:13.

future calculations, if he wants to stay on as an MP in 2020 and be

:07:14.:07:17.

Prime Minister as he has or was wanted to be he has got to find a

:07:18.:07:21.

new seat. How do you go into an association and say I should be an

:07:22.:07:24.

MP, I can do it for at least four hours Purdy after editing The

:07:25.:07:29.

Evening Standard, making a big speech and telling Black Rock how to

:07:30.:07:36.

make a big profit. The feature pages have to be approved for the next day

:07:37.:07:40.

and feature pages are aware the editor gets to make their mark. The

:07:41.:07:44.

news is the news. The feature is what concerns you, what he is in

:07:45.:07:49.

your bonnet. That defines the newspaper, doesn't it? It is not

:07:50.:07:55.

over yet. Too much 101 on newspapers. And Haatheq at.

:07:56.:08:02.

School funding, the consultation period ends, it has been a tricky

:08:03.:08:08.

one for the government, some areas losing. I guess we are seeing this

:08:09.:08:14.

through the prism of the National Insurance contributions now, it is a

:08:15.:08:19.

small majority, if Tory MPs are unhappy she may not get her way.

:08:20.:08:24.

Talking to backbench MPs who are unhappy the feeling is it is not

:08:25.:08:28.

going to go ahead in the proposed form that the consultation has been

:08:29.:08:34.

on. No 10 will definitely have to move on this. It is unclear whether

:08:35.:08:38.

they will scrap it completely, or will they bring in something

:08:39.:08:41.

possibly like a base level, floor level pupil funding below which you

:08:42.:08:47.

can't go? You would then still need to find some extra money. So there

:08:48.:08:51.

are no easy solutions on this but what is clear it is not going to go

:08:52.:08:55.

ahead in its current form. Parents have been getting letters across the

:08:56.:08:58.

country in England about what this will mean for teachers and so on in

:08:59.:09:04.

certain schools. It's not just a matter of the education Department,

:09:05.:09:08.

the schools, or the teachers and Tory backbenchers. Parents are being

:09:09.:09:13.

mobilised on this. The point of the new funding formula is to allocate

:09:14.:09:16.

more money to the more disadvantaged. That means schools in

:09:17.:09:21.

the more prosperous suburbs are going to lose money. Budget cuts on

:09:22.:09:24.

schools which are already struggling. It comes down again to

:09:25.:09:28.

be huge problem, the ever smaller fiscal pool, ever greater demands,

:09:29.:09:34.

NHS, social care, education as well, adding to Theresa May and Phillip

:09:35.:09:37.

Hammond's enormous problems. Here is an interesting issue, Steve. There

:09:38.:09:42.

was a labour Leader of the Opposition that once suggested

:09:43.:09:47.

perhaps given these huge energy companies which seemed to be good at

:09:48.:09:51.

passing on energy rises but not so good at cutting energy prices when

:09:52.:09:54.

it falls, that perhaps we should put a cap on them until at least we

:09:55.:09:59.

study how the market goes. This was obviously ludicrous Marxism and

:10:00.:10:04.

quite rightly knocked down by the Conservatives, except that Mrs May

:10:05.:10:09.

is now talking about putting a cap on energy prices. Yes, I think if it

:10:10.:10:13.

wasn't for Brexit we would focus much more on Theresa May's Ed

:10:14.:10:18.

Miliband streak. Whether this translates into policies, let us

:10:19.:10:22.

see. That bit we don't know. That bit we don't know but in terms of

:10:23.:10:26.

argument her speech to the Conservative conference on Friday

:10:27.:10:29.

was about the third or fourth time where she said as part of the

:10:30.:10:35.

speech, let's focus on the good that government can do, including in

:10:36.:10:38.

intervening in markets, exactly in the way that he used to argue. As

:10:39.:10:43.

you say, we await the policy consequences of that. She seems more

:10:44.:10:47.

cautious in terms of policy in fermentation. But in terms of the

:10:48.:10:52.

industrial strategy, in terms of implying intervention in certain

:10:53.:10:55.

markets, there is a kind of Milibandesque streak. And there

:10:56.:10:59.

comes a time when she has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

:11:00.:11:05.

They talk a lot about the just about managing, just about managing face

:11:06.:11:10.

rising food bills because of the lower pound and face rising fuel

:11:11.:11:14.

bills because of the rise in oil and in other commodities. One of the two

:11:15.:11:21.

things you could do to help the just about managing is to cut their food

:11:22.:11:24.

bills and the second would be to cut their fuel bills. At some stage she

:11:25.:11:28.

has to do something for them. We don't know what is going to happen

:11:29.:11:31.

to food bills under Brexit, that could become a really serious issue.

:11:32.:11:35.

They could abolish tariffs. There has been a lot of talking the talk

:11:36.:11:39.

and big announcements put out and not following through so I agree

:11:40.:11:42.

with you on that but lots of Tory MPs will have a big problem on

:11:43.:11:56.

this and the principle of continually talking about

:11:57.:11:59.

interfering in markets, whether it's on executive pay, whether it is on

:12:00.:12:01.

energy, at a time when Britain needs to send out this message to the

:12:02.:12:04.

world in their view, in the view of Brexit supporting MPs, that we are

:12:05.:12:07.

open for business and the government is not about poking around and doing

:12:08.:12:10.

this kind of thing. Of course, you could argue there is not a problem

:12:11.:12:13.

in the market for energy, it is a malfunctioning market that doesn't

:12:14.:12:15.

operate like a free market should, so that provides even Adam Smith,

:12:16.:12:18.

the inventor of market economics would have said on that basis you

:12:19.:12:22.

should intervene. I was in Cardiff to listen to Theresa May's latest

:12:23.:12:26.

explanation for doing this. By the way, we've been waiting nine months,

:12:27.:12:30.

this was one of her big ideas. You are right, let's see a bit of the

:12:31.:12:34.

meat, please. My newspaper has been calling for some pretty hefty

:12:35.:12:38.

government action on this for quite some time. For the just about

:12:39.:12:43.

managings? Yes and specifically to sort out an energy market dominated

:12:44.:12:47.

by the big six, which is manifestly ripping people off left, right and

:12:48.:12:51.

centre. Theresa May's argument in Cardiff on Friday morning which, by

:12:52.:12:55.

the way, went down like a proverbial windbreak at the proverbial funeral

:12:56.:13:00.

because Tories... You know what I mean Andrew, the big hand coming

:13:01.:13:04.

into from the state telling businesses what to do. They went

:13:05.:13:08.

very quiet indeed. They were having saving the union and Nato but there

:13:09.:13:12.

was no clapping for that. The point being, this is what she needs to do

:13:13.:13:16.

to prove her assault, to prove those first words on the steps of Downing

:13:17.:13:21.

Street. We await to see the actions taken.

:13:22.:13:23.

On that unusual agreement we will leave it there. The Daily Politics

:13:24.:13:31.

will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at noon and everyday during the week.

:13:32.:13:34.

And I'll be here on BBC One next Sunday at 11am.

:13:35.:13:36.

Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:37.:14:20.

I've not given myself that time to sit down

:14:21.:14:26.

Two years ago, former England captain Rio Ferdinand lost his wife

:14:27.:14:30.

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