20/02/2017 The Papers

Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the the papers will be

With me are Broadcaster Dame Joan Bakewell and Lucy Fisher,

Senior Political Correspondent at The Times.

Tomorrow's front pages, starting with:

Joan, you were in the House of Lords for the debate on the Brexit bill.

Let's look at the times, I think. They have got it on their front page

and a picture of Theresa May. Unusual for a Prime Minister to go

into the Lords and listen to a debate. Very exceptional for the

people from the Commons to come in at all. She cannot go into the body

of the chamber, if you notice she is sitting with her back to the throne.

Not on the throne? Not quite. I was about ten yards from her. There was

a flurry, whispering, it is Theresa May. Why do you think she wanted to

come in? I was also at the debate and taking part in the debate on the

higher education Bill. Joe Johnson came in and stood below the bar,

they are interested in what is going on in the Lords. It is a very

thoughtful place, less partisan than the Commons and some really

well-informed people, whose opinions are worth hearing. I am sure she

wanted to see how the Brexit debate was falling either way. She stayed

for the two opening speeches and then she went. She wanted to

register that she was keeping an eye on us. It was packed today, the

Lords. Will you vote for some of the amendments peen put to the Brexit

bill? I will be voting for about four of the amendments when they

come. The amendments are matters I care about, about the people who are

resident here, foreigners who are resident here, they should be given

the right to stay. There were very good speeches about the anxiety

surrounding the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland prop.

Those speeches were very moving, very well informed, not hysterical,

but made a point of how serious it was. So I will be voting for that

amendment. Lucy, the bill went through the Commons unaltered and

not amended. You are trying to block it in some way and trying to change

it in the Lords? Government sources we heard from two weeks ago, warned

that he is not to play God. David Davis has tried to play down some of

the rhetoric. But if there is going to be this prolonged ping-pong with

the Lord sending legislation back to the Commons, back to the Lords and

back to the Commons again, the upper chamber will call down on its head,

big debate about its existence. Bring it on. The role of the Lords

is to revise and improve legislation that comes through. We accept the

legislation as having been voted through but all legislation can be

improved. But this is unique in that it was voted in a referendum, 17.4

million people voted to leave and end of story. No, 16 million people

didn't vote for it so there are cases being made. In a democracy,

the 16 million should also have a voice and that voice is finding its

place in the agenda. It is well intentioned that those who say let's

get on with it, and of course we had the referendum and the voice of the

people have spoken, but they listened discreetly to those who say

no in a democracy and those who lose, the 16 million deserve a voice

and their point of view to be heard. In some way representing, but not

overruling the so-called will of the people, but adding to the richness

of the approval that finally goes through. What do you think Theresa

May was therefore, was it in any sense to perhaps warned the Lords,

don't mess around with this Bill? Absolutely, I thought she looked a

spectacle of a menacing intent as she sat there and eyeballed. I felt

quite sorry for Natalie Evans, the Conservative leader of the house. It

is like having the headmistress come into the back of the class and watch

your work. I felt the chill going through the chamber. The Guardian

have an analysis of the burden that Britain would be left with if there

wasn't any kind of trade deal on leaving the EU. ?6 billion a year

the Guardian saying, it would cost British exporters. We will get into

some of the mechanics of what the various options are. If we do leave

the EU without any settle Brexit deal and crash are, as many people

describe it, on the World Trade Organisation rules, we will face

higher tariffs. It is interesting, so much complexity and uncertainty

around various options. Do we have the expertise in Whitehall? We know

there has been a struggle to hire the right negotiators. The Guardian

with the 6 billion figure and quote arriving from the former ambassador

for the UK to the EU, thought it might take up to ten years to

negotiate a deal. If you multiply that by ten years, it is 60 billion.

This whole matter of the trade deal is crucial. Theresa May, for some

reason, has plumped instantly for very hard Brexit. The Guardian has

gone to work on how to cost that. Nigel Lawson spoke about, don't

bother with soft Brexit, don't bother about access to the single

market, go straight to the WTO. The WTO deal will be really hard for us

to sustain. Very punitive. Why are plumbing, choosing to go so directly

so hard? Is it a negotiating ploy? I don't understand, it is punitive.

Let's talk about the business rate increase the government is talking

about, Lucy. Some indications the Chancellor, he was meeting Tory

backbenches tonight might be rowing back a little bit? Yes, he has made

clear he is in listening mode, alive to some of the complaints MPs have.

Half a million small firms in the UK that are set to see rate hikes of up

to 300% in some cases. Could be crippling for independent retailers

for the high street, in competition with Amazon and the like, these

online retailers who are set to see their rates drop. Some of the

details, Sajid Javid, the community secretary has been on holiday in

Dubai. This issue has been on our front pages day after day and Philip

Hammond coming to talk to his backbenchers, I wonder if there is a

split emerging in the Cabinet. It is a full-scale row because the

Treasury are very cross he seems to have messed up on this arrangement.

This is at the heart of Tory policy. This is where their voters and

supporters of small businesses and big businesses is. To have this row

going on and keep on running, it is in the papers day after day, this is

damaging, someone has to step in and sort it out or are they waiting for

the budget? I think there could be possibly something in the budget on

this. There is an interesting line, Sajid Javid has been accused by his

backbenchers of dodgy figures. He wrote to MPs at the end of last

week, Conservative MPs and has been accused of doctoring those figures

between five and 7% to make it look like areas have rates that are over

all falling, one that is not the case. Speaking of dodgy figures, the

Daily Mirror have got a story, the Lasse Kjus Dame Joan to talk about,

because there is criticism of the Lords are still leaching. They have

evidence from a BBC programme where a pier was spotting knitting in to

claim his ?300 allowance while he or she kept a taxi waiting outside. It

is outrageous. I don't know anyone who does it, because the people I

associate with stay all day and do a good job. I am not aware of it

happening. Is there any excess in the Lords? A lot of hard working

people doing boring stuff most of the time that don't make the

headlines. They attend in large numbers. If a couple keep the taxi

waiting comet they shouldn't and it is a scandal but not enough to bring

down the Lords. Because it looks like we will be bringing ourselves

down anyway. Lucy, what is your experience of the Lords, is it

represented criticism or one-off, a peer keeping a taxi waiting? It is

very fashionable to bash an elected chambers. My experiences, it is a

high level of debate, people are experts. While everyone is

opinionated, when I watch debates I can only see people speaking up when

they have relevant expertise. Overall, I am impressed from what I

have seen. The Lords was absolutely packed today. Absolutely crowded.

They were sitting on the stairs, very keen. And tomorrow, it goes on

from 11 in the morning to midnight. It is one of the turning point in

history, this bill. It is taken very seriously by everyone who is there

and nearly 200 people are going to speak about it. A good atmosphere in

there? You get to hear what everybody says, even those who

disagree with them. The Daily Mail, story about universities told to

throw the book at SA cheats. Lucy, I am sure you weren't a cheat at

university? No, I can safely say. But I was aware of it and friends of

mine made a bit of extra cash on the side by writing some of essays for

less scrupulous students and handed them in as their own. I think part

of the problem is, when you can sign up online and pay money to write it,

it is at the spoke service, I can have a B+, I think it is going to be

difficult to crack down. I was told by someone who marks papers that it

is possible to identify. A phrase that keeps cropping up, you only

have two Google that phrase and it takes you to the source material and

you can identify it. But if it has been written by Airbus spoke essay

for you, it won't have been written on line. But they are used by source

material, you can put the phrases in and see what the source material

was. Once you have got the Internet and loads of information, it is

going to be hard to track. You probably could, but it will be a lot

of effort, will it be worth it? They will not get degrees and they will

not get good jobs. I favour an exam -based system and maybe get rid of

the coursework which bogs you down and doesn't let you get to grips

with material. Let's finish off with something neither of us are guilty

of which is mumbling on the television. In the Telegraph, Joan

they have a story about the latest drama, SSGB, complaints about the

mumbling. There were a few bits of dialogue I had to rewind and I still

didn't understand. At my age, I do have to have the subtitles with a

drama and lots of music. Lotsa people said they needed the

subtitles on this programme. Also, I turn the subtitles of Billy McClure

of when I watch the news because the people who do the news speak very

clearly. I do find when you are in a wine bar or a restaurant, the

background music can be loud. I am shouting at my partner, dining

partner from across the table which makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

That is a sign of getting old when you think the music in bars and

restaurants is getting to live. Thank you so much for being with us,

both of you. Don't forget you can see the front

pages of the papers online It's all there for you -

seven days a week. And if you miss the programme any

evening you can watch it No mumbling, we promise you. Good

night. Hello, many parts of the UK got an

early dose of spring, certainly encouraging the spring bulbs out

across parts of the UK. Temperatures 18 Celsius