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to what the the papers will be bringing us tomorrow. | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
With me are Matthew Syed, columnist at the Times, | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
and Kevin Schofield, editor of PoliticsHome. | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
Welcome to both of you, a look at those front pages first of all. | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
The Times, unsurprisingly, leads on the Scotland First Minister's | :00:33. | :00:34. | |
demand for a second referendum on Scottish independence, | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
calling it an ambush, and reporting that Theresa May | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
is preparing to reject Nicola Sturgeon's bid for two years. | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
A witty play on words from the Metro - | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
"Scots throw a sporran in the works," | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
reporting that the First Minister's announcement has thrown | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
Downing Street's Brexit plans into chaos. | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
And the Guardian continues the theme, | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
headlining that the Prime Minister's plans | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
have been upstaged by Scotland's First Minister. | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
He Daily Telegraph calls the face-off between the two leaders the | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
new Battle for Britain, and the paper includes quotes from Theresa | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
May accusing next of tunnel vision. And finally the Daily Express, which | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
has focused on the events in Westminster, saying that following | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
the votes in Parliament, pushing through the Article 50 bill, the | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
Queen could sign Brexit into law as early as tomorrow morning. Well, | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
let's take some of those on board in the next few moments, we will start | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
with the i, which leads with the headline, future of the UK in doubt, | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
and it really is, we have got to that point, haven't we? It kind of | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
sums up in a nutshell, really, those of us who covered the first | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
referendum are still trying to get over that experience! Traumatised! | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
Now we are being thrown back into it once more. This was always on the | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
cards, as soon as Britain voted to leave the European Union and | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
Scotland itself voted to remain. This was always likely to happen, | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
but I still think that the timing is pretty significant. I think | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
undoubtedly Nicola Sturgeon has caught Theresa May on the hop, a bit | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
of an ambush, as one of the headline says, and she has taken the upper | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
hand in this debate, but it has got a long way to go, and it will be | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
interesting to see, once Theresa May four minutes a proper response, what | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
she actually she says. -- formulates a proper response. I have to say, I | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
think this is contemptible opportunism, because I understood | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
the last referendum was to be once in a generation. At the time it took | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
place, they knew that Cameron had promised to give a referendum to the | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
whole of the UK on Brexit. And they still said it was going to be once | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
in a generation. It seems to me that the rules of the game was such that, | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
after that referendum, Scotland decided to stay in, they were | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
committed to accepting the majority view of the United Kingdom as a | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
whole. It seems to me that this is opportunistic, and I am not at all | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
surprised that Theresa May is likely to push back, partly on the timing, | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
but if she pushes it back until after the next Scottish elections, | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
it will be difficult for the SNP to trigger the referendum. I mean, this | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
could be a constitutional crisis. Without a doubt, I think it will be. | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
You are right, I don't see the benefit for Theresa May in agreeing | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
to have a referendum while she is also trying to get through the | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
minefield of Brexit, so on the one hand you would be carrying of | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
discussions with 27 other member states, trying to get the best | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
possible deal for Britain, while at the same time trying to fight a | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
battle to keep the country together. I don't see why she would agree to | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
do that, because it is in her gift to decide whether or not to give the | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
Scottish Parliament the power to hold a referendum, and it would be | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
madness to do it well Brexit is rumbling on. Of course, the next | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
argument would be that she has a mandate as a result of the Scottish | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
elections that were most recently held, because she had put in a | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
manifesto, if there is a material change in the relationship between | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
Britain and, well, Scotland and the UK as a result of Brexit, she can do | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
it again. That manifesto was a bit of slippage in itself, because | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
material change is open to all sorts of interpretations. They were not | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
saying, during the first independence campaign, that we will, | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
if we lose, introduced into the next manifesto, a clause saying that if | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
there is any material change... They were all saying, it is once in a | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
generation, come what may, and I felt that was unfair. I was in | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
favour of Remain as a voter, and I campaigned for it when I could. But | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
I accept the result of that too. If you are going to have a fair fight, | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
you have to abide by the rules and not try to weasel your way out of | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
it, and Jude processes such an important concept, because then you | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
can plan, have some certainty when you are casting your ballot. -- due | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
process is. It seems to me that this is a corrosive effect, I do not | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
think it is good for democracy. What is the Metro take on it? I said a | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
witty headline in the run through a moment ago, I am not sure that it | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
necessarily stands up to that examination. I am not sure that will | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
be the front page in the Scottish edition! Is there a Scottish | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
edition? I believe there is, I believe they usually have a | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
different front page, and Scots throw a in the works, a bit of a | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
tortuous pun. -- throw a temporary. Anyway, leaving the headline aside, | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
it just shows you, all the front pages are dominated, on a day when | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
the Article 50 bill is passed, a massive enough story in itself, | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
ordinarily that would be the front page, but Nicola Sturgeon's faces | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
staring out from every single front page. So it shows you it has been a | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
massive PR win for her. No doubt what the Scottish Daily Mail thinks | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
about it, not only have they got a headline which is pretty clear, they | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
have got comment on the front page. It is very neutral, very difficult | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
to know what the editorial line is(!) They are going strongly with | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
the line that May may turn down the idea that Nicola Sturgeon has of | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
having the referendum before Brexit. But this is going to be | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
extraordinarily divisive, not just the campaign between those who want | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
to remain part of the UK and those who do not, but those who feel that | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
this is a betrayal of an earlier pledge to stick by the first result. | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
The other thing to bear in mind is uncertainty, we already have | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
uncertainty in England because we don't know the terms of Brexit, but | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
at least there is a general expectation we will leave the single | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
market, probably the customs union, there will hopefully be a free-trade | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
deal. His Mrs in Scotland don't not this point whether they will be in | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
the UK, whether they will be in the EU, whether they will be in the | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
single market, whether they will be in the customs... They don't even | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
know what the currency is going to be, extraordinary uncertainty with | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
the Scottish economy is tanking, is that too strong a word? A bit | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
strong, but the economic case has weakened since the last referendum, | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
but the political case is strengthened, and I think that is | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
the gamble that Nicola Sturgeon is taking, that the political case will | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
trump the economic case, because as you say, the economic case is much | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
weaker, the oil price has tanked, we can definitely say that. We were | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
predicting a second oil boom at the time of the last referendum, and | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
that has proven not to be the case. Till with politics, the other big | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
talking point, Brexit, of course, various boats have gone in favour of | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
the Government tonight. -- various votes. This is a leaked document | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
which really reveals what, I think, we already knew which is the complex | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
structure that we are currently trying to disentangle ourselves | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
from, given the vote to leave the EU. They are saying that there will | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
have to be new laws covering immigration, tax, agriculture, | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
trade, data protection, six bills for benefits, reciprocal health | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
arrangements, in addition to the Great Repeal Bill! There is a huge | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
amount of negotiation of disentanglement, it is an | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
extraordinarily complex thing that has to take place. David Davis, of | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
course, is heading this up, and this just underlines what kind of thing | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
we have got ourselves into. And all of that will involve votes, the Lord | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
is getting involved, potential amendments, that is the potential | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
complication. Absolutely, and a lot of MPs and peers, obviously the | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
Government is in a minority in the House of Lords, who will be using | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
this legislation as an opportunity to delay, frustrate the process. So | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
the notion that they will be able to not only agree a divorce deal with | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
the rest of the EU, but also agree free-trade arrangements within the | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
two year period, when you are also trying to do that, it seems fanciful | :09:26. | :09:34. | |
to me. And Scottish independence as well, a monumental period in front | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
of us. Let's end with something less controversial, namely a photograph | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
of Her Majesty the Queen on the front of the express, this is from | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
the Commonwealth Day Evans today, which of course heralded the start | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
of the baton relay head of the Commonwealth Games. Yes, quite a big | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
story, 2022, Durbin, who had previously been the agreed hosts for | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
that, they are no longer going to be the hosts. -- Durban. I think there | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
may be a bid from Liverpool, it gives me an opportunity to chip in | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
with the fact that I won a Commonwealth gold medal in | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
Manchester, I know you want to discuss the tactics are used in the | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
final! But I will tell you one thing, it is very different from the | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
Olympics, great camaraderie, and in the build-up to all of that, they | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
think of it as an anachronism, but it is a really uplifting experience, | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
and quite a good spectacle too. In 2014, back to Scotland, in Glasgow, | :10:38. | :10:45. | |
it came right after, no, it was just before the independence referendum, | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
so you had the whole place in the firm and anyway, and then a | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
Commonwealth Games, it was fantastic. Any medals or prizes? | :10:54. | :11:01. | |
Honestly, I think I got a swimming badge! Bronze, probably! In the | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
interest of studio harmony, I wanted to give you the opportunity! Thank | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
you very much for the time being, thanks to both of you, you can join | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
us again at 11:30, and you can see the front pages online on the BBC | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
News website. For the moment, goodbye. | :11:22. | :11:25. |