09/02/2017 The View

The Irish language has been thrust front and centre

of this election campaign, as Arlene Foster insists there'll be

Tonight on The View, I'll be asking Sinn Fein's Michelle O'Neill how

she plans to do business with unionists after March 2nd.

Arlene Foster predicted a brutal campaign, but how does Sinn Fein

plan to counter her dismissal of an Irish Language Act

and her comparison of republicans to crocodiles?

Can Michelle O'Neill work with Mrs Foster after the election?

Sinn Fein could not support Arlene Foster in the executive office while

the investigation is ongoing. And her colleagues said, put manners on,

is that appropriate? No. Also tonight: As the UK moves closer

to triggering Article 50 after the lastest Commons vote,

the Alliance Party accuses Unionist parties of undermining

the institutions here. Plus, what happens when a White

House news conference goes awry? When it comes to these decisions the

Constitution gives our President lots of power.

And doing their own show-and-tell in Commentators' Corner,

Professor Deirdre Heenan and Newton Emerson.

James Brokenshire would not be acceptable as a chair

for negotiations after the Assembly election in March,

says Sinn Fein's leader at Stormont, Michelle O'Neill.

And she has insisted that Arlene Foster cannot take up a post

in the Executive Office before the inquiry into RHI

I spoke to Ms O'Neill earlier, and I began by asking her why

Sinn Fein walked away from the Assembly when she was

trying to form a policy to tackle the very real

Absolutely the reason that the Assembly collapsed was because the

DUP had orchestrated the RHI scandal. That is not acceptable. You

cannot have corruption at the heart of Government. You cannot have an

arrogant approach to some sections of society. People who are only

interested in governing for some, that is not good Government, that is

not what the Good Friday Agreement was about. That was about integrity,

equality, respect, delivering for all our citizens. That's the

Assembly has collapsed is all about RHI. I have listened to the DUP in

the last couple of days. The executive has fallen because of RHI.

We will talk about that in a moment but did issue of growing waiting

lists, asking for support from other party leaders, that you can leave it

promised not to the permanent Secretary of the Department of

Finance, to release this money, effort is not an Agreement after the

election for the Assembly to get up and running again. Of that was

necessary and people who are dependent on a decent health service

are losing out. It is your actions that has led to that. It is our

actions that have brought the executive down because of corruption

at the heart of Government. You cannot take big decisions about the

health service, the education service or any other service of

people do not have integrity in institutions and those people that

are delivering services. In my seven month since I became Health

Minister, all cross-party support, the health service needs

transformation. I have already set out the planned how we're going to

do that. We had cross-party support. One of the plans I set out was to

publish a waiting list plan because waiting lists are not acceptable. We

need to tackle those issues. We need to tackle the causes of what is

wrong in the health service. But the is the otherness scenario is because

of RHI and for other reason. You have written to the other party

leaders asking for their support. Because of the transformation to fix

the root causes, the reason I wrote to them to put on public record

their support for dealing with the waiting list issue because that is

what they have all signed up to. There was widespread support for the

transformation journey we have embarked on an health, I am

committed to that both personally and politically. It is to happen.

Health service that is more support, they are under pressure, we need to

deal with the meeting that issue, that is what good Government and

leadership is. To see all those hard decisions that need to be taken

across education or any of those public services, people need to have

confidence in the people taking the decisions, the electorate will take

a decision on the 2nd of March. People decide if they want to have

an executive that is wedded to the principles of the Good Friday

Agreement, which is always about integrity, respect and equality and

Government. Will you be able to work with Arlene Foster if your two

parties are returned as the largest parties after the election? It is

from the to decide who the DUP will choose to read them. Letters Arlene

Foster. We cannot presume to the electorate will return. Our party

will come into negotiations wanting to bring us into the modern era and

deal with marriage equality, the language act, all those things. Can

you work with Arlene Foster on those issues? In terms of forming an

executive we need a fundamental change. If the DUP are the largest

party we will need a fundamental change and a step change from them,

their attitude, it would have to be about delivering for all citizens or

not. They are not we cannot go into Government. Arlene Foster could not

take up the position while there is a RHI scandal and investigation

ongoing. Are you saying you could not work with Arlene Foster in a new

executive before the results of the public inquiry are made public? Yes,

that is what I am saying. RHI is a scandal that needs completely

investigated and no right minded person could support Arlene Foster

to go into the joint office of first and Deputy First Minister. You will

not work with Arlene Foster in the executive until we know the

conclusions of the public inquiry, which could be at least six months?

There is no possibility of a return to the Assembly, and a devolved

administration, until the end of this year, is that what you are

saying? That is not correct. There is a possibility to return to the

executive and institutions and have a functioning executive, with the

other parties want to step up, if DUP was to turn up in terms of

delivering for all citizens, on the basis of equality, respect and

integrity. Only saying you should decide who will lead the DUP? Know I

am not saying that. That is for them to decide. I am saying Sinn Fein

could not support Arlene Foster in the executive office whilst the

investigation is ongoing. You said any right-thinking person would not

put themselves forward to any potential executive Rollo is a

shadow of a cloud hanging over them. That is about Arlene Foster, you are

saying Arlene Foster is off-limits in terms of playing a role in the

executive with Sinn Fein until we know for sure that she has been

cleared by a public inquiry. We have never... She says she has done

nothing wrong. Martin asked her to step aside for a period of four

weeks because of the potential investigation, that could have

produced a preliminary report. That fat little kid then, why not now? We

are not good to have a preliminary report. -- if that was OK then, why

not know. Tried to keep the scheme ongoing,

who withheld information from partners and Government. This

election is about integrity. You have known about RHI for a long

time. Martin McGuinness knew about the difficulties back in last

February but Sinn Fein did nothing about it. Let us be clear, as soon

as Sinn Fein knew about the difficulties, Sinn Fein said that

down within a matter of days. That is a matter of fact. As soon as the

head of the Civil Service came to Martin McGuinness and said there

were problems, with in days of the scheme was shut down, Sinn Fein took

action. Your colleague Michelle Gildernew said put manners on Arlene

Foster, was she right to use that language? No, that is not

appropriate. That is too far. I am interested in integrity and respect.

Have you admonished Michelle Gildernew for using that language? I

have spoken to her. That is not language I would choose. Then the

last number of weeks and months the DUP have treated the public with

disrespect and arrogance. I do not want anybody like that in team. If

you are in public life you have a job to be a leader. That means to

produce of an uncomfortable situations. To step out of your

comfort zone. It is about making sure we deliver first-class public

services. Politics is about the will to want to change things. If you do

not like things, step up and dry to fix it. That is who I am. I have

taken on the mantle of Martin McGuinness. I want the Assembly to

work, I want to do with the health service issues, the economy,

everything else. That is what politics is, that's who I am, that

is what Sinn Fein are about. Politics is also the art of

compromise so if Arlene Foster is retiring and if the DUP says she

continues to be the leader, and you are going to have to deal with her

whether you like it or not, and if all the other parties say they would

like to see devolution up and running again sooner rather than

later, you have got a problem. Can you work with Arlene Foster? I ask

that off the back of some of the comments she has made recently

Richey has said there will never be an Irish language act, where DUP

members have talked about crocodiles, those holding,

nationalists = villages, there has been colourful language fired across

the electoral airwaves in the last number of weeks. Do you think this

possible given all that is said and done in recent days, weeks and

months for you to work meaningfully and Government with Arlene Foster in

future, if that is what the electoral besides you need to do? If

Arlene Foster is leader of the DUP, and you are assuming the electorate

will return... I made that qualification. Sinn Fein will come

to negotiations with their willingness to negotiate things. It

is in the public interest to do that. We have an election because of

the RHI scandal, that issue has to be dealt with. I have said that

before, nobody should go forward for that office if they have that

clothes hanging over them. That is her choice. Bitterness of choice.

You know our Sinn Fein Stormont leader, he became a leader in

January, but it is not quite clear how that process worked. But looks

more like a coronation than an open and transparent election. That is

not that damage credibility as the leader? It does not. I am so

honoured and privileged to take on the role from Martin McGuinness and

to lead our party into the selection and into the future. It is a

tremendous honour for me and I will come at it with such energy, I will

carry on the great work from Martin McGuinness, why I was chosen not an

issue. We did not see democratic principles at work in your

appointment as your party's leader in the north, Eileen Foster said you

were installed by Gerry Adams and you will be instructed by him in

future, you are his puppets, he is your boss. Gerry Adams as party

President of Sinn Fein, that is no secret. He has asked me to take on

the role of leader. Martin McGuinness has passed on the mantle.

Gerry Adams at any other political leader made an appointment as other

leaders do. It was endorsed. I am comfortable with it. You have been

specific about the cost associated with sorting out the waiting list

issue, ?31.2 million. How much would it cost and an Irish language act?

There has had a lot of scaremongering in relation to the

issue. I do not have a cost that does not believe any reply have

heard. It is a key issue, how can you not cost of that? If you look at

where we are at in society, whether the Irish language, marriage

equality, we are the only part of these islands that has not put

forward legislation on these issues. We are a society that is backward

looking because of unionism. I am talking about the cost of permitting

an Irish language act, opponents say it could cost hundreds of millions

of pounds, you should be able to lead that that by saying it will

cost extra load of money but you cannot give me a figure. We have

looked at Scottish language act, for example, it was nobody knew that

sort of cost. Give me some idea of a figure. Let me tell you this. Last

week we saw the DUP trying to deflect from the fact that the

election is about the RHI scandal. It is not about the Irish language

act, it is about the RHI scandal. You have made that point. People

understand that. But the Irish language act as an issue you have

talked about. You want to see an Irish language act. Is that a red

line. You do not draw red lines on any issue. I would like you to be

drawn on whether it is a principal or not. An clear on the issue of

Arlene Foster and suitability to be First Minister at a time when the

RHI issue has not been resolved and the judge has not reported as far as

public inquiry is concerned. You should be equally clear about the

Irish line with Jack, how much would it cost to implement? The Irish

language act, the Bill of Rights, the legacy issues, they are key

issues in this election. So you must have costed them? This

is a wispy block by the DUP before and whenever legislation comes

forward we would look at the minister who tabled the situation so

it would be pretty hard to cost. You should be able to put a figure to

it. I don't think it is an unreasonable question to get some

sense of whether or not your political opponents have actually

got it right and it will cost a lot of money or whether your analysis is

that it would cost a lot less and if it is a lot less to should be able

to give me a figure. Our political opponents, the DUP, I tried to scare

about the Irish Language Act and Boxer said. Evidence shows that when

Scotland voted on a Scottish Irish -- Scottish language act it didn't

cost much. How much did it cost? Don't you know? The British

government if it committed to an Irish Language Act it could do so

and it could finance it. Don't let anyone distract from the fact that

this is about the RHI scandal. James Brokenshire recently said the

current system is not working and we are in danger of seeing the past

reborn. Can he be an honest broker in the elections? No. If you look at

his actions to date, if you look at his comments in relation to British

soldiers receiving immunity and how he is ignoring the views of the

people in the North who want to stay in the European Union and if you

look at his one-sided than partisan views on a lot of things I don't

believe James Brokenshire is an honest broker, no, I don't. Does

that mean you would have to bring in some external facilitator to hold

those talks together? It would absolutely be preferable. The

British government and the Irish government Arco guarantors of the

Good Friday agreement and they have a job to step up to the plate. The

British government have banded to the DUP for the last number of years

to each negotiation and tried each failure to implement the issues that

they signed up to. We can't have British government who is only

interested in one section of the society. If you are going to be a

leader, be a leader for everybody. That is who am.

Michelle O'Neill talking to me earlier, and on next week's

programme I'll be speaking to the DUP leader, Arlene Foster.

Now, what are we to make of last night's rejection by unionist MPs

of an SDLP attempt to ensure the government takes on board

the Good Friday Agreement during forthcoming Brexit negotiations?

The UUP says it received assurances from the British government

that the agreement will not be affected, but the Alliance Party

says the situation is deeply worrying and leaves the institutions

Lord Empey and Stephen Farry from both parties join me now.

Welcome to you both. Thank you for joining us. Lord Empey, you are

concerned enough to seek assurances from government that the Good Friday

agreement will not be affected, why not vote for an amendment that could

have locked it into the Bill? We have been working at this for a long

time. Back in September we produced our own, the only party that has

produced a vision for Northern Ireland outside the EU, even the

executive has not produced one. We went to see Brexit Department

ministers before Christmas and we went to see, I spoke to David Davis,

the Brexit secretary on Tuesday and the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson

on Wednesday. We have a meeting on 22nd April with the Brexit ministers

from Downing Street to follow this up. We have been doing a lot of work

to ensure the border remains open and that the governments remain

committed to the agreement and I got an answer. Did you get the

assurances? I got the man that got them on Hansard because earlier this

month I asked the Minister a question on these very issues and I

got absolute clarity. Do you just hope you can ensure? Boris Johnson

gave me a one word answer, yes. The question was Will you ensure there

is an open border as it currently stands, and will you ensure that

there are commitments under the Belfast agreement that are met. He

said that in front of 80... The negotiations haven't even started!

He said it in front of 80 other people in the Prime Minister has

said it in the House of Commons and I think we should not contemplate

two separate issues here. He is prejudging the outcome of the

negotiations. He is not in a position to give you a guarantee. It

is the government of the United Kingdom 's decision that there will

not be a hard border. The Prime Minister has said it, the Brexit has

said it -- the Brexit secretary has said that the Foreign Minister has

said it. It would never get through Parliament has anything else. But

they can't tell you exactly the nature of the border. We know it

will not be concrete and barbed wire border. The Irish ambassador came to

speak to the Northern Ireland affairs committee on Wednesday this

week and he made it clear that the governments were committed, both of

them, to ensuring that there was no damage done to the agreement as a

result. Are you reassured? Certainly not. There are two sides to any

border so the perspective of the European Union will be important in

this. They will not want Congress and barbed wire either. We could

hear the phrase about no returns to the borders of the past but it means

nothing. There is no reassurance on what the border will look like. You

are not reassured by the comment from Boris Johnson which was enough

Lord Empey? Or the experts say that if the UK leads the customs union

which is our current stated exec -- objective you cannot avoid customs

border and that has to be a physical check, there are country of origin

issues that have to be checked and they have to be physical. You cannot

do it through electronic means. You want recognition of the special

circumstances in Northern Ireland and you want guarantees put in

place. What does that mean precisely? We want some sort of

special status for Northern Ireland which is a special relationship with

the European Union and I believe that can be... Special status for

Northern Ireland rather than the island of Ireland? There may be

special measures that need to be put in place for the island as a hold.

At the moment Northern Ireland have voted to remain with in Europe and I

believe special status can be made with the Good Friday agreement and

the principle of consent. There are issues that we remain on the right

side of the customs union and part of the single market and the four

freedoms and we have access to funds and European funds but the wide

apart around this issue is the Good Friday agreement and the

reassurances that have been given in that regard. They do not stand up to

scrutiny. The issues are that the structures of the Good Friday

agreement may continue but that fails to understand that the

European Union and the joint membership of the UK and Ireland

behind that give effect to the Good Friday agreement because we have the

east-west and north-south relationship in tandem. Brexit means

putting up barriers. Someone will lose in this regard and it has

political implications. Are you worried that this would be the

dangerous uncoupling of the union? Of course it well, it's nonsense.

The biggest economic, political and social link that we have is with the

rest of the United Kingdom and I know Stephen 's party is not

committed to the union, they are diagnostic about it, but that is the

point. It is the most important unit and if you go down the road of

special status it is Gerry Adams speak for moving us one more step

out of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland voted a certain way and the

referendum but it was a UK referendum and we accept the result.

It also means that if you try and keep us locked in some bizarre

mechanism to keep us in the United Kingdom, what happens if the UK goes

and does new trade deals with other countries? As a Unionist, if you are

concerned about the best interest of the people of Northern Ireland in

these new circumstances, if it can be proven that the best interests

are represented by a closer relationship between Northern

Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, what would you have to fear from

that? It doesn't mean the end of the union, just redefined relationship

on the island of Ireland. The European Union is a union of member

states. You are either in a state or you are not. Sinn Fein and others

want to make Northern Ireland into effectively a protectorate and that

is the worst possible position for us to be in. The Republic isn't

interested in this sort of thing at all. They want, and the two

governments are working extremely closely together, and they are

ensuring that they are going to solve these problems. There is a

unanimous political will across all parties. The worst possible outcome?

Brexit affects all the people of Northern Ireland, when a Unionist,

nationalist or a whole mix and range of different identities. It was a UK

wide referendum but Northern Ireland is not as British, we are in a very

particular place and there are anomalies in Northern Ireland.

Anyone born he has an automatic right to be an Irish citizen so

European Union citizen and we have a very integrated economy. Real damage

will be done to our economy in the context of a hard Brexit. What is

important is we decouple the concept of special status from the National

desire for a united Ireland. Special status is something that should

appeal right across the political spectrum. It is a pragmatic response

to the problems we are facing and can be entirely consistent with the

principle of consent. We have to appreciate that the Good Friday

agreement is a balanced settlement. Strand won the internal dynamic and

also the east-west is also an synchrony. Brexit upsets all of that

and it is potentially very serious. At the moment people through the

European Union, can trade north and south and east and west and get

through their lives as they see fit. Brexit means putting in place a form

of barrier somewhere that creates winners and losers and zero choice

for some people and that is not the underlying spirit of what the

agreement actually meant. Where will the barrier be? It may not be a

concrete and barbed wire frontier between North and South but there

will have to be a frontier. Where do you think it will be? First of all,

in respect of what Stephen has just said, the most important trading

relationship we have is with the rest of the United Kingdom. We have

strong links with the Republic but they pale into insignificance

compared with our links. Cut adrift? Absolutely not. We are committed and

one of the people who set up the bodies such as tourism Ireland, this

trying to link the Brexit with the destruction of the institutions of

the Belfast agreement is a very dangerous road to go down. Get back

to the point. Where will the border be? If it does not run through Derry

and Strabane and ran to Newry, will it be on the Scottish ports? UK and

GB airports? We have pursued that with the government and we were told

under no circumstances would they contemplate any internal borders

within the United Kingdom. Where will it be? Electronically we can do

a lot because invoices have to be generated, vehicles can be

bar-coded, the Republic can change its border processes. That will not

solve all of the problems, it might contribute to some of it. I am not

finished. The public and is too great controls itself on its own

ports. Why shouldn't have to do that? The Republic wants to ensure a

open border and they are our strongest allies in the European

Union and we will also ensure intelligence sharing between the two

countries. There are ways in which, lots of ways in which we can do

that. How do you respond to that? Ireland cannot separate themselves

from the rest of the European Union. The Irish Republic can't go

unilateral in terms of having a differential border with the rest of

the European Union. You want us to adopt the euro? That used to be your

policy. What Brexit is doing is deciding whether it is better to

stay economically with Great Britain or the Republic of Ireland and the

European Union and it is a false choice and we should look to do

Let's hear what Deirdre Heenan and Newton Emerson make

Good to see you. Let us go back to the top of the programme and talk

first of all about Michelle O'Neill and her interview. She is now the

party was Maxtor want leader. What did you make of her performance

tonight? That is the first time I have heard Sinn Fein give a specific

red line on any of these negotiations, about Arlene Foster 's

tenure and even that red line this time limited. The enquiry will take

about six months and that is projected. Gerry Adams has already

said that he considers corruption, to be an issue that is being dealt

with just by the existence of the enquiry so Sinn Fein has set itself

a target here that will resolve itself. Everything else is totally

up in the air and we must bear that in mind. The alleged corruption she

mentioned several times in the interview. She was crystal clear

about what Sinn Fein will accept and not accept about Arlene Foster 's

role in an executive or outside an executive unless and until she is

cleared by the public enquiry. She was clear and many in the DUP

will be spitting feathers. You would love to be a fly on the wall and

Arlene Foster's front room. I would. She talked a lot about leadership.

Integrity. She said she would be a leader for all of the citizens. I

think she is coming across or depicting herself. Arlene Foster

comes across as belligerent, insular, but as she is more affable,

saying this is about the future, and I am quite sure they will be reeling

against that the election. Importantly as well, the future is

starting to shape up, as Sinn Fein sees it, letting DUP twist in the

wind for six months I would take the rest of the issues to the British

Government. She said James Brokenshire cannot be an honest

broker in future negotiations and tonight he has said he is not

contemplating any other outcome but a resumption of devolved partnership

Government. Yes, but she would say that, because it has been partisan.

It would have been more interesting if she had said something different.

I thought it was interesting that she was willing to slap down

Michelle Gildernew and see that type of language was not acceptable to

did not want to get into that kind of slanging match. In the past that

they have been smoothed over but was clear that is not the type of party

that she wants to read. What did you make of what she had to say about

the Irish language act? She could not or would not put a figure on it

at all in terms of what it might cost? That is not good preparation.

What struck me, Gerry Adams has this raised with the Irish Government,

the Irish Government has raised this at the Brexiter conference with

Theresa May, it is becoming clear that they know they will not get

this past the DUP saw the ball to score over the DUP's head. She said

it was not a red line but she had already pointed out that Arlene

Foster as leader was a red line. There are many different kinds of

Irish language act. They are going to have to get something and be

ankle to have to go to London to get it. They are not the did tie

themselves in knots before it is to see what it will look like and how

much it will cost. There is no detail about how much it will cost

but that is a realisation that people are interested in health,

education, the economy, and they are the key issues, and she was try to

focus on those. She has attempted to leave the Health Ministry on

autopilot. That would also tie in with the idea of a six-month hiatus,

civil servants can sign the checks, the DUP heads can explode while she

runs to London. What did you make of this, if talks are not successful,

it gives a Green light to release ?31.2 million, she seems to be

suggesting. It is meaningless. It is a promissory note. The reality is

health needs radical transformation. This is a sticking plaster to

address our waiting list issue that should have been addressed long

before now. The report is out over six months and absolutely nothing

has happened. That is dressed up as doing something when in fact we have

been sitting on our hands watching the problem getting bigger as months

go past. It does not mean anything. Interested to hear with Arlene

Foster has two C in response, hopefully she will be on the

programme next week, Michelle O'Neill said tonight she did not

want to trade insults but what she said about Arlene Foster, will it be

winding? It will and there is no question of the DUP coming into

this. That is all for now. Join me for Sunday Politics

at 11.35am here on BBC One, when I'll be talking to the leader

of the Ulster Unionist Party, we leave you with Melissa McCarthy's

brilliant impersonation of White House spokesman,

Sean Spicer. If only all news

conferences were like this! Settle down, settled down. I want to

ask about the travel ban on Muslims. The travel ban is not a ban which

makes it a ban. You just call that a ban. I am using your words. You

treat it if the ban were announced with a one-week notice... Exactly.

You just said that. He is quoting you.

It is your words. When it comes to these decisions, the Constitution

gives our President lots of power. The key adviser. Our President will

not be deterred.