23/03/2017 This Week


23/03/2017

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 23/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Two people shot outside the Westminster Parliament.

:00:07.:00:12.

Westminster is in a state of emergency tonight after

:00:13.:00:20.

what the Metropolitan Police described as a terror incident.

:00:21.:00:27.

It is the worst attack in London since

:00:28.:00:29.

Tonight on This Week, violence, terror and death descend on the

:00:30.:00:40.

Four people are killed and scores injured by an

:00:41.:00:44.

Counter extreme expert Jonathan Russell tells us why

:00:45.:00:54.

the threat here is more dangerous and unpredictable than ever.

:00:55.:00:56.

The security services can't do this alone.

:00:57.:00:58.

This attack shows Sweeney Day full spectrum counter extreme is

:00:59.:01:00.

strategy involving all sectors of society.

:01:01.:01:05.

Parliament was suspended, Westminster locked down.

:01:06.:01:08.

The Daily Mail's Parliamentary sketch writer,

:01:09.:01:12.

Quentin Letts, suddenly became a front line reporter, as he watched

:01:13.:01:15.

At the gates of our Parliament I saw a stabbing, shots

:01:16.:01:32.

being fired, but our democracy being bravely defended.

:01:33.:01:34.

And today, as millions of Londoners and MPs

:01:35.:01:36.

returned to work and went about their daily business,

:01:37.:01:38.

Simon Callow puts resilience in tonight's

:01:39.:01:40.

Whatever the Westminster attacker thought he was doing

:01:41.:01:45.

yesterday, the effect will be, has been, the exact opposite.

:01:46.:01:52.

Sudden, violent death is now a part of life

:01:53.:01:58.

across the world, and here is no exception.

:01:59.:02:06.

Keith Palmer had been a copper for 15 years.

:02:07.:02:18.

A husband, dad, brother, uncle, public servant.

:02:19.:02:22.

Before joining the police he'd been in the Army.

:02:23.:02:25.

Yesterday he was murdered defending our democracy.

:02:26.:02:30.

Defending the very heart of our democracy from

:02:31.:02:32.

Reminding us of something that we badly needed reminding -

:02:33.:02:40.

that the most important people in this country are not the rich,

:02:41.:02:43.

But those who run to confront the enemies of our civilisation

:02:44.:02:47.

while the rest of us are running away.

:02:48.:02:51.

Brutally stabbed to death by a jumped-up jihadi not fit

:02:52.:02:57.

to breathe the same air as the man he killed.

:02:58.:03:01.

Now, I know there are still some Jihadi Johnnies out there who think

:03:02.:03:04.

they will eventually triumph because their love of death

:03:05.:03:07.

Do you have any idea who you're dealing with?!

:03:08.:03:16.

This is the country that stood up alone to the might of the Luftwaffe,

:03:17.:03:20.

airforce of the greatest evil mankind has ever known.

:03:21.:03:26.

If you think we're now going to be cowed by some pathetic Poundland

:03:27.:03:30.

terrorist in an estate car with a knife then you're

:03:31.:03:33.

Sometimes the hurt is more than we can bear.

:03:34.:03:42.

Because for every brainwashed, brain-dead Islamist you send to do

:03:43.:03:47.

us harm we have thousands upon thousands of Keith Palmers.

:03:48.:03:54.

You'll find them in every walk of life, in every part of the land.

:03:55.:03:57.

They come in all shapes, all sizes, all colours, all faiths.

:03:58.:04:01.

And against them, you will never prevail.

:04:02.:04:08.

I'm joined on the sofa tonight, yet again, by a two-fingered

:04:09.:04:22.

Your thoughts. It coincided with the death of Martin McGuinness which was

:04:23.:04:28.

-- was a reminder that London has sustained many tens of terrorist

:04:29.:04:34.

deaths. They were killed in the Hilton hotel, at Harrods, in the

:04:35.:04:40.

parks, the Palace of Westminster, there were bombs at Canary Wharf, a

:04:41.:04:45.

huge bomb in the city. And Londoners became in your debt to terror. --

:04:46.:04:55.

they've became used to terror. And I felt yesterday that Londoners

:04:56.:04:57.

quickly recovered that resilience they had had before. I was struck

:04:58.:05:05.

how yesterday evening, on the whole, despite great sorrow and shock, on

:05:06.:05:09.

the whole London was back to its normal self. I walked out of

:05:10.:05:18.

Westminster Station at 2:45pm and came up except seven to come out in

:05:19.:05:21.

Whitehall and saw people looking behind me. I suddenly heard coppers

:05:22.:05:28.

running everywhere, saw the doors of one Parliament St, where my office

:05:29.:05:33.

is, shut. So the lockdown happened very quickly. So I couldn't go in

:05:34.:05:41.

and I stood and observed. The police cordon wasn't there and there were

:05:42.:05:47.

rumours flying about. Two people involved, three points of attack.

:05:48.:05:50.

And all of the people walking around did not know what was going to

:05:51.:05:56.

happen next. My staff inside, who stayed locked in for five hours,

:05:57.:05:59.

were worried that someone was marauding through the houses of

:06:00.:06:05.

Parliament. So it was a really difficult situation. I saw the

:06:06.:06:10.

police go in, I saw the helicopter land. And gradually, picking up

:06:11.:06:21.

rumours, Evan Davis turned up. We were picking up rumours and

:06:22.:06:25.

gradually the police cordon went further back-up Whitehall. I was

:06:26.:06:28.

probably better being locked out than I was being locked in. I was

:06:29.:06:34.

free to go where I wanted. I hope I do not have a political moment like

:06:35.:06:37.

that in a hurry because it was very scary.

:06:38.:06:39.

The man behind yesterday's terrorist attack was

:06:40.:06:41.

He was born in Kent and lived in the West Midlands.

:06:42.:06:44.

He was known to the police and convicted of a number

:06:45.:06:47.

There was a time when he was also on MI5's radar

:06:48.:06:51.

He was never wanted or arrested for terrorism-related offences.

:06:52.:06:55.

But today Islamic State claimed Mahmood as one of its "soldiers"

:06:56.:06:59.

who had responded to its call to attack Coalition countries,

:07:00.:07:03.

like Britain, which are helping local forces destroy Islamic State

:07:04.:07:07.

As terror attacks go it was pretty unprofessional, one petty criminal,

:07:08.:07:12.

A far cry from the well-armed, well-trained, well-orchestrated

:07:13.:07:19.

terrorist attacks on the Bataclan and Charlie Hebdo in Paris.

:07:20.:07:25.

As its dreams of a Caliphate crash in the sands of the Levant,

:07:26.:07:28.

perhaps IS is becoming more of a threat to the West.

:07:29.:07:32.

But does it still have the capability to cause substantial

:07:33.:07:35.

damage or is it increasingly dependent on deranged loners?

:07:36.:07:39.

Here's counter terrorism expert Jonathan Russell

:07:40.:07:41.

Yesterday, central London was brought to a terrifying halt.

:07:42.:07:58.

Ironically, it was probably inspired by an organisation on the cusp

:07:59.:08:01.

Isis has been on the retreat in Iraq and Syria, suffering territorial

:08:02.:08:14.

losses, cash shortages and a dwindling supply

:08:15.:08:18.

As its operational space reduces, Isis fighters have been driven

:08:19.:08:23.

underground and back to their countries of origin.

:08:24.:08:27.

As Isis face worsening fortunes in the Middle East,

:08:28.:08:33.

we are likely to see more attacks elsewhere, particularly

:08:34.:08:36.

Isis has made no secret of its desire to attack Britain.

:08:37.:08:44.

Yes, we are an island with strict gun laws,

:08:45.:08:47.

which makes a centrally organised, sophisticated attack tricky.

:08:48.:08:53.

But what we have seen over the last six months

:08:54.:08:56.

is the emergence of low tech, high impact terrorism.

:08:57.:08:58.

With attacks that can be planned and executed within hours,

:08:59.:09:03.

The UK security services have done a good job preventing centrally

:09:04.:09:10.

organised terrorism, but stopping rudimentary attacks

:09:11.:09:13.

is all that more difficult, because trucks, cars and knives

:09:14.:09:15.

We now know the attacker yesterday was Khalid Masood, British-born,

:09:16.:09:24.

had a history of criminality, and though investigated

:09:25.:09:27.

for his links to violent extremism, was not part

:09:28.:09:30.

The real concern is people like this, beneath the radar,

:09:31.:09:37.

many of them self-starter terrorists, radicalised

:09:38.:09:40.

in their bedrooms while watching videos online.

:09:41.:09:50.

The UK needs to do more to prevent such radicalisation,

:09:51.:09:52.

by strengthening our counter extremism strategy, building

:09:53.:09:56.

grass-roots resilience and training skilled intervention providers

:09:57.:10:01.

If we don't, this attack marks just the beginning.

:10:02.:10:18.

And Jonathan Russell from the Quilliam Foundation is with us now.

:10:19.:10:26.

So jihadists like Masood are tougher for the intelligence services to

:10:27.:10:32.

crack. No networks, no chatter, no guns. But they are also more limited

:10:33.:10:38.

in the carnage they can cause. Is that the way that things are going?

:10:39.:10:44.

Absolutely. If you ask the security services they will be more worried

:10:45.:10:47.

about marauding Terrorism Act firearms attacks, as happened in

:10:48.:10:56.

Paris. There will be a really high victim count and it would be a

:10:57.:11:01.

dreadful situation. However, most of these things require cells and

:11:02.:11:04.

coordination, some level of sophisticated planning. Much harder

:11:05.:11:12.

to detect, according to security services, are these lone actor,

:11:13.:11:15.

unsophisticated, rudimentary weapon attacks like yesterday from Masood.

:11:16.:11:20.

We are talking about people beneath the radar, radicalised in their

:11:21.:11:26.

bedrooms. Can counterterrorist organisations do much to stop that?

:11:27.:11:31.

If all you need is a car and a carving knife, how do you stop that?

:11:32.:11:38.

I don't think security services can do that alone, which is why we talk

:11:39.:11:41.

about trying to prevent people wanting to do that in the first

:11:42.:11:45.

place, which is where counter extremists coming, but also the rest

:11:46.:11:50.

of society. Teachers, youth workers, prison officers, police officers,

:11:51.:11:55.

who have day-to-day contact with vulnerable individuals can start

:11:56.:11:58.

intervene, spotting signs of radicalisation and turning people

:11:59.:12:04.

down different paths. You need the help of communities. Communities

:12:05.:12:07.

have a really important role, because they have relationships with

:12:08.:12:11.

the vulnerable, and for the most part do not want to see this type of

:12:12.:12:16.

violence. It is a new challenge for security services because when it is

:12:17.:12:21.

better organised there is chatter online and in social media. If they

:12:22.:12:25.

need guns, we are very good at tracking guns and getting them down.

:12:26.:12:30.

We have very sophisticated surveillance. But if it is just some

:12:31.:12:34.

guy in his bedroom being radicalised online, that's a different

:12:35.:12:38.

challenge. Jonathan is right about this strand of Event, which has been

:12:39.:12:44.

quite controversial since it was introduced as part of the strategy

:12:45.:12:52.

on counterterrorism. -- Prevent. It has improved over time but it would

:12:53.:12:58.

be perverse not to have a strategy to prevent, because that really is

:12:59.:13:02.

about intelligence picked up from teachers, from community workers,

:13:03.:13:05.

from people who walk out to tell their local neighbourhood policing

:13:06.:13:11.

team, a PCS oh, it is amazing how much of that intelligence came

:13:12.:13:16.

through to counter intelligence. There are very few lone wolves, and

:13:17.:13:20.

now eight people have been arrested around this guy. It is very rare

:13:21.:13:29.

that there is a lone wolf. There is usually someone else involved. If

:13:30.:13:32.

more people are involved, more people pick up what is going on.

:13:33.:13:36.

Jonathan is right, that has to be the major area of concern. And for

:13:37.:13:42.

the whole of the population. I think there is one element of this, Isis

:13:43.:13:48.

have lost 60% of their territory in Iraq, 25% in Syria. As that warped

:13:49.:13:54.

appeal to younger people, their success, suddenly flying that black

:13:55.:13:58.

flag everywhere, that might help in the sense of not radicalising

:13:59.:14:03.

younger people, because they are suddenly seen to be defeated and

:14:04.:14:09.

losers. It is a new challenge for the intelligence services. The thing

:14:10.:14:13.

we have been most worried about is the returning jihadi professional,

:14:14.:14:20.

the battle hardened one, the trained one in guns and techniques, the kind

:14:21.:14:26.

of people who were at Charlie Hebdo, they seemed very professional. It

:14:27.:14:30.

looks like so far our intelligence services have done a good job of

:14:31.:14:35.

keeping on top of that. About 13 potential attacks worth watered by

:14:36.:14:38.

them, something you never quite here, but really important. -- they

:14:39.:14:46.

were watered. Yes, it might seem trite in light of this tragedy, but

:14:47.:14:49.

in a way this is the right problem to have. If the terrorist is being

:14:50.:14:55.

driven towards lone wolves who are less sophisticated and can inflict

:14:56.:14:59.

less damage, then that is the right problem to have. One must did use,

:15:00.:15:06.

by the fact that we have not had an incident of scale since 1995, while

:15:07.:15:11.

other countries in Europe have had many incidents of great scale, we

:15:12.:15:17.

must infer that our security services have been pretty much on

:15:18.:15:21.

top of this, and we should rejoice in that. 2005. Yes, but we must

:15:22.:15:32.

rejoice that they have done, we can infer that they have done an

:15:33.:15:35.

extraordinary good job. In coming days I am sure there will be

:15:36.:15:40.

criticisms, maybe even in this programme, at least some questions

:15:41.:15:43.

raised about security. But let that not obscure the fact that the

:15:44.:15:47.

intelligence services must have done a remarkable job.

:15:48.:15:53.

As Islamic state loses men, treasure, land, does that undermine

:15:54.:15:59.

its capacity to be able to attack the West? If it's on the back foot

:16:00.:16:12.

out there, does not undermine its ability to do bad things here? The

:16:13.:16:18.

first angle that could increase things is a returnee load of

:16:19.:16:21.

fighters. That would affect the continent more than the UK because

:16:22.:16:26.

of the free-flow of people. The second thing that could reduce

:16:27.:16:31.

things is this hypocrisy element, the sense that they are failing and

:16:32.:16:35.

that they are losers. I think however Isis are very good at

:16:36.:16:40.

spinning out of these sorts of things with their propaganda,

:16:41.:16:46.

they've dropped all reference, for example, to the centrality of the

:16:47.:16:52.

caliphate and they are talking more about a digital caliphate these

:16:53.:16:56.

days. I would hope that we can all work together to say that this is

:16:57.:17:02.

proof that the Jihadist model and the Jihadist experiment is a failure

:17:03.:17:07.

and that might be subsequently less appealing to our youngsters who're

:17:08.:17:11.

in the process of being radicalised or exploited.

:17:12.:17:16.

But I would say that as it's seen as a failure, if we don't go after that

:17:17.:17:20.

ideaology and broader narrative, people might see attacks in the UK

:17:21.:17:24.

as a viable alternative to travelling for terrorism. Going out

:17:25.:17:29.

to Syria and Iraq and so on. It may be that Islamic state, for the

:17:30.:17:35.

reasons you have given, becomes less attractive to radicalising our

:17:36.:17:38.

citizens here and they go and fight there. But a lot have already done

:17:39.:17:44.

that and a lot have come back, Thirlwall trained, we assume still

:17:45.:17:47.

radicalised. The Intelligence Services will know who these people

:17:48.:17:51.

are, but of course, as the IRA said in the Brighton bomb, we have to be

:17:52.:17:56.

right every day, they only have to be right one day? Yes, but I think

:17:57.:18:01.

we are right and Michael's right. Harriet Harman made this point in

:18:02.:18:07.

Parliament, he failed in his attempt. I think that Jonathan is

:18:08.:18:10.

right, it's more of a problem for Europe than it is for us in the

:18:11.:18:15.

sense that we have a much firmer control of our border and who is

:18:16.:18:21.

returning and we can't follow everyone 24 hours a day, but

:18:22.:18:24.

certainly these people returning will be a major source of

:18:25.:18:30.

observation and scrutiny. But isn't the harsh reality, Jonathan, we have

:18:31.:18:37.

had the Muslim Brotherhood in years gone by, Al-Qaeda, Islamic state,

:18:38.:18:41.

and even if this is the beginning of the end for Islamic state,

:18:42.:18:46.

particularly in the Middle East, there is always the high possibility

:18:47.:18:49.

that something else will take its place? Of course, yes. This remains

:18:50.:18:57.

a generational struggle. I think Isis will be seen as a blip within a

:18:58.:19:01.

Jihadist trend and I think therefore we need to get to grips with the

:19:02.:19:05.

arguments of the Muslim Brotherhood that continue to fly beneath the

:19:06.:19:09.

radar. I'm not saying we should ban an organisation like the Muslim

:19:10.:19:12.

Brotherhood, but we should understand that they have, you know,

:19:13.:19:17.

they create an atmosphere condusive to this sort of rubbish. Therefore

:19:18.:19:21.

we need to find a different sort of tiered response to these sorts of

:19:22.:19:28.

groups. All right. Don't go away, we'll come back to you.

:19:29.:19:30.

Now it's late, cup of tea and carry on late, for London is gutsy,

:19:31.:19:34.

From the reopening of Westminster Bridge to displays

:19:35.:19:37.

at tube stations with messages of hope to flowers at

:19:38.:19:40.

the National Police memorial, this great city still stands strong.

:19:41.:19:43.

In that spirit, it's only fitting that waiting in the wings

:19:44.:19:46.

is actor Simon Callow, here to put resilience

:19:47.:19:48.

As ever, join the Snapchatter, throw on your Fleecebook

:19:49.:19:53.

Londoners going about their daily business, tourists from all over

:19:54.:20:00.

the world, an American couple celebrating their 25th

:20:01.:20:03.

wedding anniversary, French children on a school trip

:20:04.:20:06.

Those are just some of the victims who bore the brunt of yesterday's

:20:07.:20:12.

attack, innocent civilians minding their own business

:20:13.:20:14.

on the glory that is Westminster Bridge.

:20:15.:20:17.

Tonight we learned that that one of them, a 75-year-old man,

:20:18.:20:20.

has died, taking the death toll to four, plus the attacker,

:20:21.:20:22.

His path of destruction led him through their lives

:20:23.:20:29.

and onto the Parliamentary estate where he was shot dead

:20:30.:20:31.

MPs and Lords were told to stay in their respective chambers whilst

:20:32.:20:41.

parliamentary staff, journalists and visitors rushed

:20:42.:20:44.

The Daily Mail's sketch-writer, Quentin Letts, was one of the first

:20:45.:20:49.

to give an eyewitness account from his desk

:20:50.:20:51.

I am now going to suspend the sitting of the House.

:20:52.:21:00.

This House is now suspended but please wait here.

:21:01.:21:03.

There has been a serious incident within the estate.

:21:04.:21:07.

It seems that a police officer has been stabbed.

:21:08.:21:32.

It wasn't that way yesterday before an atrocity in which three people

:21:33.:21:40.

were killed by a terrorist attacker who was himself then shot dead.

:21:41.:21:44.

From my office window, I watched the ghastly events unfold.

:21:45.:21:53.

Our Parliament, our values under attack.

:21:54.:21:56.

At 3 o'clock yesterday, politics across the kingdom

:21:57.:21:59.

Politics just fades into the background on a day like today.

:22:00.:22:05.

Clearly, so many people in the Scottish Parliament have

:22:06.:22:09.

friends, colleagues in Westminster, many people in Scotland have friends

:22:10.:22:11.

working in London and therefore, as a mark of respect,

:22:12.:22:16.

not because of any increased threat to the Scottish Parliament,

:22:17.:22:19.

but as a mark of respect and solidarity, the decision

:22:20.:22:22.

to suspend business was absolutely the right one.

:22:23.:22:34.

I have just chaired a meeting of the Government's emergency

:22:35.:22:37.

committee COBRA following the sick and depraved terrorist

:22:38.:22:41.

attack on the streets of our capital this afternoon.

:22:42.:22:46.

The full details of exactly what happened are still emerging.

:22:47.:22:50.

But having been updated by police and security officials,

:22:51.:22:53.

I can confirm that this appalling incident began when a single

:22:54.:22:58.

attacker drove his vehicle into pedestrians walking

:22:59.:23:02.

across Westminster Bridge, killing two people and injuring many more,

:23:03.:23:07.

But a heavy police presence and sombre MPs made it

:23:08.:23:18.

clear we were some way from business as usual.

:23:19.:23:21.

We shall now observe a minutes' silence.

:23:22.:23:26.

A full House of Commons amazingly quiet heard Theresa May,

:23:27.:23:37.

this implacable Prime Minister, urge us to go about our business

:23:38.:23:42.

as usual and Jeremy Corbyn firmly spoke of solidarity and humanity.

:23:43.:23:48.

In scenes repeated in towns and cities across the country,

:23:49.:23:54.

millions of people are going about their days and getting

:23:55.:23:57.

The streets are as busy as ever, the offices full, the coffee

:23:58.:24:02.

As I speak, millions will be boarding trains and aeroplanes

:24:03.:24:06.

to travel to London and to see for themselves the

:24:07.:24:09.

It is in these actions, millions of acts of normality,

:24:10.:24:14.

that we find the best response to terrorism.

:24:15.:24:18.

Look after each other, help one another and think of one another.

:24:19.:24:22.

It is by demonstrating our values, solidarity, community, humanity

:24:23.:24:27.

and love, that we will defeat the poison and division of hatred.

:24:28.:24:34.

People who commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam do not speak

:24:35.:24:39.

for the Muslims in this country, do not speak for the Muslims

:24:40.:24:45.

in this City and certainly do not speak for me.

:24:46.:24:49.

We must not allow, in the coming days and weeks, anyone to try

:24:50.:24:52.

and divide our country on the basis of faith or nationality

:24:53.:24:57.

With your indulgence, Sir, I would like to turn for just

:24:58.:25:03.

a moment to PC Keith Palmer who I first met 25 years ago

:25:04.:25:08.

as Gunner Keith Palmer at Headquarters Battery 100

:25:09.:25:10.

He was a strong, professional public servant and it was a delight

:25:11.:25:18.

to meet him here again only a few months after being elected.

:25:19.:25:32.

And less than three hours before the attack, frontbenchers

:25:33.:25:37.

in the House of Commons paid tribute to a former Sinn Fein leader to many

:25:38.:25:42.

MPs heard those tributes in cold silence.

:25:43.:25:46.

And I would like to express my condolences to the family

:25:47.:25:50.

and colleagues of the former Deputy First Minister

:25:51.:25:52.

of Northern Ireland, Martin McGuinness.

:25:53.:25:54.

Of course, we do not condone or justify the path he took

:25:55.:25:57.

in the earlier part of his life and we should never forget that,

:25:58.:26:01.

However, as my Noble Friend Lord Trimble set out yesterday,

:26:02.:26:08.

he played an indispensable role in bringing the Republican movement

:26:09.:26:11.

away from violence to peaceful and democratic means and to building

:26:12.:26:15.

Martin played an immeasurable role in bringing about peace

:26:16.:26:20.

in Northern Ireland and it's that peace that we all want to see endure

:26:21.:26:23.

for all-time for all people in Northern Ireland.

:26:24.:26:26.

Before all this happened, the week had also brought

:26:27.:26:35.

Labour Party tensions, revival of Scottish

:26:36.:26:40.

independence talk and a setting of a date for Article 50.

:26:41.:26:45.

Terrorism is an intrusion, an outrage, but it's

:26:46.:26:50.

Normal service will be resumed whatever our enemies think.

:26:51.:27:12.

Jonathan Russell is still with us. Alan, former Home Secretary, while

:27:13.:27:21.

the police on the main gate into Parliament -- why are the police on

:27:22.:27:29.

the main gate into Parliament not armed? They're the second line of

:27:30.:27:35.

defence. Keith Palmer, you walk past him and say morning to him, he was

:27:36.:27:43.

the unarmed person. Before 9/11, in about 97, there was no security at

:27:44.:27:46.

all, you could walk through with your constituents. I I remember the

:27:47.:27:51.

days you could walk up 10 Downing Street. Yes, so it's been a gradual

:27:52.:27:56.

process. The police on the gates, in many ways, they're a tourist

:27:57.:27:59.

attraction, they have they photographs taken with tourists over

:28:00.:28:02.

and over again. They are a part of coming to Parliament. I think there

:28:03.:28:08.

was a reluctance to put armed police in that position, but know of course

:28:09.:28:11.

it might change. I think it probably will change. But these are the gates

:28:12.:28:15.

that open and close quite a lot, cars are going in and out,

:28:16.:28:19.

particularly at times of votes, ministers rush back, then rush back

:28:20.:28:22.

to their departments. I mean there was a time in the immediate

:28:23.:28:27.

aftermath of what happened yesterday when the gate remained open, indeed

:28:28.:28:30.

one report in the Times suggested that a courier came through to

:28:31.:28:35.

deliver a package? I mean, we know what it could have been? ! Yes, that

:28:36.:28:42.

is exactly right. I mean, one doesn't want to get into loose talk

:28:43.:28:47.

here, but let me say this, I would like to be reassured that there's

:28:48.:28:52.

absolutely joined up strategies for defending Parliament and I mean the

:28:53.:28:56.

interior, the outside, threats from the air, threats from the water,

:28:57.:29:00.

threats from the land. I think almost certainly the way the gate is

:29:01.:29:05.

guarded will change. The news this evening, if it's true that the

:29:06.:29:12.

terrorist was actually shot by Michael Fallon's protection officer,

:29:13.:29:15.

raises another set of questions about how quickly the team that were

:29:16.:29:19.

meant to be there got there, so there are lots of questions that

:29:20.:29:22.

need to be raised. It really does need to be joined up. I'm going back

:29:23.:29:26.

a very long time but I will say when I was there, I was worried that it

:29:27.:29:34.

wasn't completely joined up then, in particular the internal and external

:29:35.:29:36.

threats were not considered together. That courier van couldn't

:29:37.:29:41.

have got through, there was a vote on at time, so the bells were

:29:42.:29:45.

ringing, there was a division and they opened the gates. Otherwise

:29:46.:29:51.

there would be another security problem. I suspect this was

:29:52.:29:55.

fortuitous on the part of the terrorist. Yes, it wasn't planned.

:29:56.:30:01.

But coincided with the vote it led to the gates being opened and of

:30:02.:30:05.

course to the Prime Minister being mobile.

:30:06.:30:15.

We were reporting earlier that the attacker was killed by the Defence

:30:16.:30:21.

Secretary's protection officer who happened to be waiting while Michael

:30:22.:30:25.

Fallon went to vote. He was just there. It would suggest, you dread

:30:26.:30:30.

to think what would have happened if we hadn't been there. It does

:30:31.:30:33.

suggest security at a Palace of Westminster isn't as good as we

:30:34.:30:40.

thought it was. It's a tricky one. Not only should we salute the

:30:41.:30:44.

security services for how many attacks they prevent on a monthly

:30:45.:30:48.

basis, we understand, but also what's tricky is getting the balance

:30:49.:30:52.

between enough police that people feel safe and that they can do an

:30:53.:30:56.

acute job like this, to keep us safe, but not so much that people

:30:57.:31:00.

feel that there is a constant threat to our way of life. We are not even

:31:01.:31:06.

at the highest terror threat level. We are not at imminent yet. Because

:31:07.:31:11.

we do not know of any specific threat. Let's be honest, if this

:31:12.:31:17.

attacker had been professionally trained and armed with automatic

:31:18.:31:20.

weapons, this could have been a massacre. It could have been. The

:31:21.:31:27.

story about Michael Fallon, that is the first I have heard about that.

:31:28.:31:33.

But if he wasn't there, there are always three, four, sometimes six

:31:34.:31:38.

armed police around that members entrance of New Palace Yard. So, you

:31:39.:31:45.

know, there would have been guns there. If he had come in firing

:31:46.:31:49.

guns, there would have been people there to deal with it. He was three

:31:50.:31:56.

open doors away from the Prime Minister. That the layout. He was

:31:57.:32:02.

only 20 yards inside the gate. He did not get further than that place

:32:03.:32:07.

where you go down to the underground car park. He just got as far as

:32:08.:32:12.

there, about 20 yards in. It just happens to be, if he had got a bit

:32:13.:32:18.

further he could have got up to the Prime Minister's office. The war on

:32:19.:32:22.

terror has become intelligence led. There will now be more demands for

:32:23.:32:27.

more resources for the intelligence services, and I suspect they will be

:32:28.:32:32.

irresistible demands. Yet, as we were saying yesterday, for the likes

:32:33.:32:36.

of yesterday's attacker, that is the most difficult job for intelligence

:32:37.:32:40.

services. It is almost like no matter what resource they have they

:32:41.:32:43.

may not be able to pick up people like him. Let me just pay the

:32:44.:32:51.

tribute again. Working amongst the communities where they have to work,

:32:52.:32:58.

working with different languages, working with some communities that

:32:59.:33:02.

are quite closed but which have to be opened up, transferring the

:33:03.:33:09.

effort from Irish terrorism to Islamist terrorism, all of this has

:33:10.:33:14.

been a prodigious achievement by the security forces. Prodigious

:33:15.:33:18.

achievement. And yes, I think probably more resources will be

:33:19.:33:21.

needed, and it looks as though those resources could be put to good use.

:33:22.:33:27.

What did you make of the glowing tributes to Martin McGuinness this

:33:28.:33:33.

week? I think we are all conflicted about this. My hero is a Derrey

:33:34.:33:42.

politician, John Hume, who suffered just the same discrimination but

:33:43.:33:48.

decided to take a different route. I don't see how you can justify, under

:33:49.:33:53.

any circumstances, killing innocent civilians as part of your political

:33:54.:34:00.

objectives. Having said that, it is absolutely clear that without Martin

:34:01.:34:03.

McGuinness, that peace process would never have worked. And his position

:34:04.:34:09.

on the Bogside in Derry, where he continued to live... You remember

:34:10.:34:15.

shortly after the real IRA, the terrible outrage in Omagh, he was in

:34:16.:34:24.

danger, he risked his life in the end on the peace process. So the two

:34:25.:34:30.

parts of the Martin McGuinness are difficult to reconcile but in the

:34:31.:34:34.

end, from everyone who was involved in that peace process, it couldn't

:34:35.:34:38.

have happened without him. Could I just say, John Major started the

:34:39.:34:45.

peace process but it would have been very difficult for a Conservative

:34:46.:34:48.

Prime Minister or Cabinet to take the peace process very far, because

:34:49.:34:54.

so many of the victims had been our friends. It required a change of

:34:55.:35:02.

government. As it happened, Labour had not been in power for many

:35:03.:35:06.

years, and so Labour people had not been the victims. It was therefore

:35:07.:35:12.

more possible for Labour to continue the process. While we are talking

:35:13.:35:17.

about courage, it actually did take courage for Tony Blair and then, my

:35:18.:35:21.

goodness, for the Queen to shake hands with Martin McGuinness and

:35:22.:35:26.

with former terrorists. And I have no complaint about that whatsoever.

:35:27.:35:33.

Despite marvellous people who were killed by the IRA, marvellous

:35:34.:35:37.

people, which makes it impossible for me ever to forget it, I do

:35:38.:35:42.

understand how necessary the peace process was. Jonathan, thank you for

:35:43.:35:44.

being with us. Now, we're a resilient

:35:45.:35:48.

bunch here on This Week. Suffering regular eye-damage

:35:49.:35:50.

at the hands of Michael's wardrobe and spontaneous,

:35:51.:35:53.

severe narcolepsy at No wonder Molly The Dog,

:35:54.:35:54.

who is French and so not quite as resilient as the rest of us,

:35:55.:35:58.

is on permanent sabbatical Despite the bungling bozos that pass

:35:59.:36:01.

for the production team on this show, there is one consolation:

:36:02.:36:05.

we get to work in a city that In case anyone needed reminding

:36:06.:36:09.

of London's character, we're putting resilience

:36:10.:36:16.

in our Spotlight. London stood together tonight

:36:17.:36:34.

in defiance of the terror that Londoners will never

:36:35.:36:37.

be cowed by terrorism. This morning, millions

:36:38.:36:45.

returned to work and went Why should we stop living our lives

:36:46.:36:47.

the way we do for these nutters? At a moment like this I think it's

:36:48.:36:53.

important that we come together to remember who we are,

:36:54.:37:04.

that we don't let events like this change us and that

:37:05.:37:06.

together we defeat them. In the Commons, it was

:37:07.:37:08.

business as usual. Questions to the Secretary of State

:37:09.:37:16.

for International Trade. Ensure that if we do have a trade

:37:17.:37:18.

agreement with New Zealand, we won't be flooded

:37:19.:37:21.

with New Zealand lamb. It wasn't just Londoners

:37:22.:37:25.

who kept their upper lip stiff. I'm admiring really the resilience

:37:26.:37:27.

of the citizens of London Australia's heartfelt

:37:28.:37:34.

sympathy and resolute solidarity is with the people

:37:35.:37:43.

of the United Kingdom, with whom we stand today,

:37:44.:37:47.

as we always have, Londoner Simon Callow lived

:37:48.:37:50.

through the troubles in Belfast. We think of ourselves as a resilient

:37:51.:38:20.

city, a resilient nation. Are we? I think we are. Curiously, adverse tea

:38:21.:38:25.

of this kind seems to bring out that aspect of our character. Without

:38:26.:38:30.

adversity we can sometimes become indulgent, complacent, whatever. But

:38:31.:38:34.

we seem to thrive on it in some way, as if we were waiting for just such

:38:35.:38:40.

a moment. You think it brings out the best in us? It might do. My

:38:41.:38:45.

parents' generation grew up in London in the Blitz and we know how

:38:46.:38:50.

extraordinary, how liberating it was for them in a sense. They knew what

:38:51.:38:55.

needed to be fought against, and they fought against it. What

:38:56.:39:02.

happened in the Blitz puts yesterday into context. Terrible as it was, it

:39:03.:39:08.

was not the Blitz. Are we more resilient than other nations? Is it

:39:09.:39:15.

an island race, is it an island nation phenomenon, resilience? It is

:39:16.:39:19.

hard to say, because the French have recently enjoyed outrages and they

:39:20.:39:25.

have been remarkable. I was in Paris just immediately before Bataclan and

:39:26.:39:32.

immediately afterwards. I suppose human beings are resilient. But I

:39:33.:39:36.

think it is part of our national self image and we live up to it. Are

:39:37.:39:44.

we resilient people, Michael? Yes, I think we are but we must not take on

:39:45.:39:50.

an air of any superiority. New York City sustained 3000 deaths in a day

:39:51.:39:53.

and the resilience of New York has been superb. So let's not try and

:39:54.:39:59.

get one up on each other. Let's say that New York has inspired Paris,

:40:00.:40:04.

that Paris has inspired us, that we inspired Brussels. That is the way

:40:05.:40:10.

it has to be. I found in France that French resilience was beginning to

:40:11.:40:12.

wane simply because of the scale and number of attacks. Charlie Hebdo,

:40:13.:40:19.

Bataclan, Nice above all really tested French resilience to the

:40:20.:40:23.

absolute limit, it was so horrendous what happened that night. There have

:40:24.:40:30.

been a string of these. There was Berlin just before. Berlin was

:40:31.:40:36.

extraordinary. Again, I was there immediately after that outrage. And

:40:37.:40:42.

again, people had immediately recovered and insisted on business

:40:43.:40:47.

as usual. It's a human instinct. The one thing that is what is true is

:40:48.:40:51.

that the older generation is always more resilient than the younger

:40:52.:40:54.

generation. At least, that is what they always think. That generation

:40:55.:41:04.

that went through the war, two wars. And a depression. There was no

:41:05.:41:15.

counselling service for people. When you listen to their experiences,

:41:16.:41:20.

they just had to get on with it. In a sense, there is more concerned now

:41:21.:41:25.

and more sympathy. In those days, there was very little of it, you

:41:26.:41:29.

just got on with it in the most appalling circumstances. Resilience

:41:30.:41:35.

helps if you have the right leadership as well. Churchill

:41:36.:41:38.

provided the country with the right leadership at a time when we had to

:41:39.:41:43.

be most resilient. Yes, but I have no reason to criticise any of the

:41:44.:41:47.

leadership in the last 24 hours, whether from government or

:41:48.:41:51.

opposition. Theresa May was pitch perfect this morning in Parliament.

:41:52.:41:57.

Pitch perfect. But often leaders who are unimpressive in the ordinary

:41:58.:42:01.

conduct of affairs suddenly become remarkable in these situations. That

:42:02.:42:06.

was true of President Hollande, whose ratings were very low. For

:42:07.:42:11.

Charlie Hebdo, he rose to the occasion. But sank again afterwards!

:42:12.:42:19.

Ken Livingstone, for example, spoke remarkably eloquently and generously

:42:20.:42:26.

towards the people who had suffered, and in favour of a diversity and

:42:27.:42:31.

freedom in England, which the rest of his activities as a politician

:42:32.:42:36.

haven't always endorsed. The one thing terrorists do when they do

:42:37.:42:40.

this is that they remind us of the diversity, because they kill and

:42:41.:42:46.

maim not just a small number of Brits, but people from all over the

:42:47.:42:51.

world who have suffered. They suffered in 7/7 and they suffered

:42:52.:42:57.

yesterday. 11 nationalities. What are you up to these days? Directing

:42:58.:43:03.

a play by Christopher Hampton called the philanthropist, a wonderful

:43:04.:43:08.

play, which has as its backdrop acts of political violence not at all

:43:09.:43:10.

unlike the ones that have just occurred. What is interesting is

:43:11.:43:15.

that the characters in the play each used completely ignore them, as

:43:16.:43:20.

people very often do. Life, as we keep saying, goes on. Sometimes it

:43:21.:43:27.

is the best way. I have a feeling we will need all the resilience we can

:43:28.:43:28.

muster in months to come. That's your lot for tonight

:43:29.:43:31.

folks but not for us. We're off to LouLou's

:43:32.:43:33.

to party the night away. I know that might not seem

:43:34.:43:35.

appropriate after yesterday's events but the Prime Minister has told us

:43:36.:43:38.

it must be business as usual, and for us normal service

:43:39.:43:41.

is our Thursday night knees up So we think of it as duty

:43:42.:43:44.

rather than enjoyment. Don't let London's

:43:45.:43:51.

stiff upper lip bite. London pride, written by Noel Coward

:43:52.:43:58.

during the Blitz. London Pride has been

:43:59.:44:08.

handed down to us. London Pride is

:44:09.:44:10.

a flower that's free. London Pride means our

:44:11.:44:12.

own dear town to us. Woa, Liza, see the coster

:44:13.:44:14.

barrows, vegetable marrows Covent Garden Market,

:44:15.:44:17.

where the costers cry. Cockney feet mark

:44:18.:44:25.

the beat of history. Nothing ever can quite replace

:44:26.:44:28.

the grace of London Town. There's a little city flower

:44:29.:44:36.

every spring unfailing, growing in the crevices

:44:37.:44:39.

by some London railing. Though it has a Latin name,

:44:40.:44:43.

in town and countryside, London Pride has been

:44:44.:44:46.

handed down to us. London Pride is

:44:47.:44:52.

a flower that's free. London Pride means our

:44:53.:44:55.

own dear town to us.

:44:56.:44:58.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS