Browse content similar to 23/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Two people shot outside the Westminster Parliament. | :00:07. | :00:12. | |
Westminster is in a state of emergency tonight after | :00:13. | :00:20. | |
what the Metropolitan Police described as a terror incident. | :00:21. | :00:27. | |
It is the worst attack in London since | :00:28. | :00:29. | |
Tonight on This Week, violence, terror and death descend on the | :00:30. | :00:40. | |
Four people are killed and scores injured by an | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
Counter extreme expert Jonathan Russell tells us why | :00:45. | :00:54. | |
the threat here is more dangerous and unpredictable than ever. | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
The security services can't do this alone. | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
This attack shows Sweeney Day full spectrum counter extreme is | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
strategy involving all sectors of society. | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
Parliament was suspended, Westminster locked down. | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
The Daily Mail's Parliamentary sketch writer, | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
Quentin Letts, suddenly became a front line reporter, as he watched | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
At the gates of our Parliament I saw a stabbing, shots | :01:16. | :01:32. | |
being fired, but our democracy being bravely defended. | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
And today, as millions of Londoners and MPs | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
returned to work and went about their daily business, | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
Simon Callow puts resilience in tonight's | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
Whatever the Westminster attacker thought he was doing | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
yesterday, the effect will be, has been, the exact opposite. | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
Sudden, violent death is now a part of life | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
across the world, and here is no exception. | :01:59. | :02:06. | |
Keith Palmer had been a copper for 15 years. | :02:07. | :02:18. | |
A husband, dad, brother, uncle, public servant. | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
Before joining the police he'd been in the Army. | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
Yesterday he was murdered defending our democracy. | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
Defending the very heart of our democracy from | :02:31. | :02:32. | |
Reminding us of something that we badly needed reminding - | :02:33. | :02:40. | |
that the most important people in this country are not the rich, | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
But those who run to confront the enemies of our civilisation | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
while the rest of us are running away. | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
Brutally stabbed to death by a jumped-up jihadi not fit | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
to breathe the same air as the man he killed. | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
Now, I know there are still some Jihadi Johnnies out there who think | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
they will eventually triumph because their love of death | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
Do you have any idea who you're dealing with?! | :03:08. | :03:16. | |
This is the country that stood up alone to the might of the Luftwaffe, | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
airforce of the greatest evil mankind has ever known. | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
If you think we're now going to be cowed by some pathetic Poundland | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
terrorist in an estate car with a knife then you're | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
Sometimes the hurt is more than we can bear. | :03:34. | :03:42. | |
Because for every brainwashed, brain-dead Islamist you send to do | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
us harm we have thousands upon thousands of Keith Palmers. | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
You'll find them in every walk of life, in every part of the land. | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
They come in all shapes, all sizes, all colours, all faiths. | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
And against them, you will never prevail. | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
I'm joined on the sofa tonight, yet again, by a two-fingered | :04:09. | :04:22. | |
Your thoughts. It coincided with the death of Martin McGuinness which was | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
-- was a reminder that London has sustained many tens of terrorist | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
deaths. They were killed in the Hilton hotel, at Harrods, in the | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
parks, the Palace of Westminster, there were bombs at Canary Wharf, a | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
huge bomb in the city. And Londoners became in your debt to terror. -- | :04:46. | :04:55. | |
they've became used to terror. And I felt yesterday that Londoners | :04:56. | :04:57. | |
quickly recovered that resilience they had had before. I was struck | :04:58. | :05:05. | |
how yesterday evening, on the whole, despite great sorrow and shock, on | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
the whole London was back to its normal self. I walked out of | :05:10. | :05:18. | |
Westminster Station at 2:45pm and came up except seven to come out in | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
Whitehall and saw people looking behind me. I suddenly heard coppers | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
running everywhere, saw the doors of one Parliament St, where my office | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
is, shut. So the lockdown happened very quickly. So I couldn't go in | :05:34. | :05:41. | |
and I stood and observed. The police cordon wasn't there and there were | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
rumours flying about. Two people involved, three points of attack. | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
And all of the people walking around did not know what was going to | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
happen next. My staff inside, who stayed locked in for five hours, | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
were worried that someone was marauding through the houses of | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
Parliament. So it was a really difficult situation. I saw the | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
police go in, I saw the helicopter land. And gradually, picking up | :06:11. | :06:21. | |
rumours, Evan Davis turned up. We were picking up rumours and | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
gradually the police cordon went further back-up Whitehall. I was | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
probably better being locked out than I was being locked in. I was | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
free to go where I wanted. I hope I do not have a political moment like | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
that in a hurry because it was very scary. | :06:38. | :06:39. | |
The man behind yesterday's terrorist attack was | :06:40. | :06:41. | |
He was born in Kent and lived in the West Midlands. | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
He was known to the police and convicted of a number | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
There was a time when he was also on MI5's radar | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
He was never wanted or arrested for terrorism-related offences. | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
But today Islamic State claimed Mahmood as one of its "soldiers" | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
who had responded to its call to attack Coalition countries, | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
like Britain, which are helping local forces destroy Islamic State | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
As terror attacks go it was pretty unprofessional, one petty criminal, | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
A far cry from the well-armed, well-trained, well-orchestrated | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
terrorist attacks on the Bataclan and Charlie Hebdo in Paris. | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
As its dreams of a Caliphate crash in the sands of the Levant, | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
perhaps IS is becoming more of a threat to the West. | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
But does it still have the capability to cause substantial | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
damage or is it increasingly dependent on deranged loners? | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
Here's counter terrorism expert Jonathan Russell | :07:40. | :07:41. | |
Yesterday, central London was brought to a terrifying halt. | :07:42. | :07:58. | |
Ironically, it was probably inspired by an organisation on the cusp | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
Isis has been on the retreat in Iraq and Syria, suffering territorial | :08:02. | :08:14. | |
losses, cash shortages and a dwindling supply | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
As its operational space reduces, Isis fighters have been driven | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
underground and back to their countries of origin. | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
As Isis face worsening fortunes in the Middle East, | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
we are likely to see more attacks elsewhere, particularly | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
Isis has made no secret of its desire to attack Britain. | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
Yes, we are an island with strict gun laws, | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
which makes a centrally organised, sophisticated attack tricky. | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
But what we have seen over the last six months | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
is the emergence of low tech, high impact terrorism. | :08:57. | :08:58. | |
With attacks that can be planned and executed within hours, | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
The UK security services have done a good job preventing centrally | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
organised terrorism, but stopping rudimentary attacks | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
is all that more difficult, because trucks, cars and knives | :09:14. | :09:15. | |
We now know the attacker yesterday was Khalid Masood, British-born, | :09:16. | :09:24. | |
had a history of criminality, and though investigated | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
for his links to violent extremism, was not part | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
The real concern is people like this, beneath the radar, | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
many of them self-starter terrorists, radicalised | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
in their bedrooms while watching videos online. | :09:41. | :09:50. | |
The UK needs to do more to prevent such radicalisation, | :09:51. | :09:52. | |
by strengthening our counter extremism strategy, building | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
grass-roots resilience and training skilled intervention providers | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
If we don't, this attack marks just the beginning. | :10:02. | :10:18. | |
And Jonathan Russell from the Quilliam Foundation is with us now. | :10:19. | :10:26. | |
So jihadists like Masood are tougher for the intelligence services to | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
crack. No networks, no chatter, no guns. But they are also more limited | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
in the carnage they can cause. Is that the way that things are going? | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
Absolutely. If you ask the security services they will be more worried | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
about marauding Terrorism Act firearms attacks, as happened in | :10:48. | :10:56. | |
Paris. There will be a really high victim count and it would be a | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
dreadful situation. However, most of these things require cells and | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
coordination, some level of sophisticated planning. Much harder | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
to detect, according to security services, are these lone actor, | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
unsophisticated, rudimentary weapon attacks like yesterday from Masood. | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
We are talking about people beneath the radar, radicalised in their | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
bedrooms. Can counterterrorist organisations do much to stop that? | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
If all you need is a car and a carving knife, how do you stop that? | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
I don't think security services can do that alone, which is why we talk | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
about trying to prevent people wanting to do that in the first | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
place, which is where counter extremists coming, but also the rest | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
of society. Teachers, youth workers, prison officers, police officers, | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
who have day-to-day contact with vulnerable individuals can start | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
intervene, spotting signs of radicalisation and turning people | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
down different paths. You need the help of communities. Communities | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
have a really important role, because they have relationships with | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
the vulnerable, and for the most part do not want to see this type of | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
violence. It is a new challenge for security services because when it is | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
better organised there is chatter online and in social media. If they | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
need guns, we are very good at tracking guns and getting them down. | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
We have very sophisticated surveillance. But if it is just some | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
guy in his bedroom being radicalised online, that's a different | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
challenge. Jonathan is right about this strand of Event, which has been | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
quite controversial since it was introduced as part of the strategy | :12:45. | :12:52. | |
on counterterrorism. -- Prevent. It has improved over time but it would | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
be perverse not to have a strategy to prevent, because that really is | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
about intelligence picked up from teachers, from community workers, | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
from people who walk out to tell their local neighbourhood policing | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
team, a PCS oh, it is amazing how much of that intelligence came | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
through to counter intelligence. There are very few lone wolves, and | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
now eight people have been arrested around this guy. It is very rare | :13:21. | :13:29. | |
that there is a lone wolf. There is usually someone else involved. If | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
more people are involved, more people pick up what is going on. | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
Jonathan is right, that has to be the major area of concern. And for | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
the whole of the population. I think there is one element of this, Isis | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
have lost 60% of their territory in Iraq, 25% in Syria. As that warped | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
appeal to younger people, their success, suddenly flying that black | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
flag everywhere, that might help in the sense of not radicalising | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
younger people, because they are suddenly seen to be defeated and | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
losers. It is a new challenge for the intelligence services. The thing | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
we have been most worried about is the returning jihadi professional, | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
the battle hardened one, the trained one in guns and techniques, the kind | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
of people who were at Charlie Hebdo, they seemed very professional. It | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
looks like so far our intelligence services have done a good job of | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
keeping on top of that. About 13 potential attacks worth watered by | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
them, something you never quite here, but really important. -- they | :14:39. | :14:46. | |
were watered. Yes, it might seem trite in light of this tragedy, but | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
in a way this is the right problem to have. If the terrorist is being | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
driven towards lone wolves who are less sophisticated and can inflict | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
less damage, then that is the right problem to have. One must did use, | :15:00. | :15:06. | |
by the fact that we have not had an incident of scale since 1995, while | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
other countries in Europe have had many incidents of great scale, we | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
must infer that our security services have been pretty much on | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
top of this, and we should rejoice in that. 2005. Yes, but we must | :15:22. | :15:32. | |
rejoice that they have done, we can infer that they have done an | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
extraordinary good job. In coming days I am sure there will be | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
criticisms, maybe even in this programme, at least some questions | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
raised about security. But let that not obscure the fact that the | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
intelligence services must have done a remarkable job. | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
As Islamic state loses men, treasure, land, does that undermine | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
its capacity to be able to attack the West? If it's on the back foot | :16:00. | :16:12. | |
out there, does not undermine its ability to do bad things here? The | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
first angle that could increase things is a returnee load of | :16:19. | :16:21. | |
fighters. That would affect the continent more than the UK because | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
of the free-flow of people. The second thing that could reduce | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
things is this hypocrisy element, the sense that they are failing and | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
that they are losers. I think however Isis are very good at | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
spinning out of these sorts of things with their propaganda, | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
they've dropped all reference, for example, to the centrality of the | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
caliphate and they are talking more about a digital caliphate these | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
days. I would hope that we can all work together to say that this is | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
proof that the Jihadist model and the Jihadist experiment is a failure | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
and that might be subsequently less appealing to our youngsters who're | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
in the process of being radicalised or exploited. | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
But I would say that as it's seen as a failure, if we don't go after that | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
ideaology and broader narrative, people might see attacks in the UK | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
as a viable alternative to travelling for terrorism. Going out | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
to Syria and Iraq and so on. It may be that Islamic state, for the | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
reasons you have given, becomes less attractive to radicalising our | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
citizens here and they go and fight there. But a lot have already done | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
that and a lot have come back, Thirlwall trained, we assume still | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
radicalised. The Intelligence Services will know who these people | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
are, but of course, as the IRA said in the Brighton bomb, we have to be | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
right every day, they only have to be right one day? Yes, but I think | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
we are right and Michael's right. Harriet Harman made this point in | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
Parliament, he failed in his attempt. I think that Jonathan is | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
right, it's more of a problem for Europe than it is for us in the | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
sense that we have a much firmer control of our border and who is | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
returning and we can't follow everyone 24 hours a day, but | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
certainly these people returning will be a major source of | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
observation and scrutiny. But isn't the harsh reality, Jonathan, we have | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
had the Muslim Brotherhood in years gone by, Al-Qaeda, Islamic state, | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
and even if this is the beginning of the end for Islamic state, | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
particularly in the Middle East, there is always the high possibility | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
that something else will take its place? Of course, yes. This remains | :18:50. | :18:57. | |
a generational struggle. I think Isis will be seen as a blip within a | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
Jihadist trend and I think therefore we need to get to grips with the | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
arguments of the Muslim Brotherhood that continue to fly beneath the | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
radar. I'm not saying we should ban an organisation like the Muslim | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
Brotherhood, but we should understand that they have, you know, | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
they create an atmosphere condusive to this sort of rubbish. Therefore | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
we need to find a different sort of tiered response to these sorts of | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
groups. All right. Don't go away, we'll come back to you. | :19:29. | :19:30. | |
Now it's late, cup of tea and carry on late, for London is gutsy, | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
From the reopening of Westminster Bridge to displays | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
at tube stations with messages of hope to flowers at | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
the National Police memorial, this great city still stands strong. | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
In that spirit, it's only fitting that waiting in the wings | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
is actor Simon Callow, here to put resilience | :19:47. | :19:48. | |
As ever, join the Snapchatter, throw on your Fleecebook | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
Londoners going about their daily business, tourists from all over | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
the world, an American couple celebrating their 25th | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
wedding anniversary, French children on a school trip | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
Those are just some of the victims who bore the brunt of yesterday's | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
attack, innocent civilians minding their own business | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
on the glory that is Westminster Bridge. | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
Tonight we learned that that one of them, a 75-year-old man, | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
has died, taking the death toll to four, plus the attacker, | :20:21. | :20:22. | |
His path of destruction led him through their lives | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
and onto the Parliamentary estate where he was shot dead | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
MPs and Lords were told to stay in their respective chambers whilst | :20:32. | :20:41. | |
parliamentary staff, journalists and visitors rushed | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
The Daily Mail's sketch-writer, Quentin Letts, was one of the first | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
to give an eyewitness account from his desk | :20:50. | :20:51. | |
I am now going to suspend the sitting of the House. | :20:52. | :21:00. | |
This House is now suspended but please wait here. | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
There has been a serious incident within the estate. | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
It seems that a police officer has been stabbed. | :21:08. | :21:32. | |
It wasn't that way yesterday before an atrocity in which three people | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
were killed by a terrorist attacker who was himself then shot dead. | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
From my office window, I watched the ghastly events unfold. | :21:45. | :21:53. | |
Our Parliament, our values under attack. | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
At 3 o'clock yesterday, politics across the kingdom | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
Politics just fades into the background on a day like today. | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
Clearly, so many people in the Scottish Parliament have | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
friends, colleagues in Westminster, many people in Scotland have friends | :22:10. | :22:11. | |
working in London and therefore, as a mark of respect, | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
not because of any increased threat to the Scottish Parliament, | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
but as a mark of respect and solidarity, the decision | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
to suspend business was absolutely the right one. | :22:23. | :22:34. | |
I have just chaired a meeting of the Government's emergency | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
committee COBRA following the sick and depraved terrorist | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
attack on the streets of our capital this afternoon. | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
The full details of exactly what happened are still emerging. | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
But having been updated by police and security officials, | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
I can confirm that this appalling incident began when a single | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
attacker drove his vehicle into pedestrians walking | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
across Westminster Bridge, killing two people and injuring many more, | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
But a heavy police presence and sombre MPs made it | :23:08. | :23:18. | |
clear we were some way from business as usual. | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
We shall now observe a minutes' silence. | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
A full House of Commons amazingly quiet heard Theresa May, | :23:27. | :23:37. | |
this implacable Prime Minister, urge us to go about our business | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
as usual and Jeremy Corbyn firmly spoke of solidarity and humanity. | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
In scenes repeated in towns and cities across the country, | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
millions of people are going about their days and getting | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
The streets are as busy as ever, the offices full, the coffee | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
As I speak, millions will be boarding trains and aeroplanes | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
to travel to London and to see for themselves the | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
It is in these actions, millions of acts of normality, | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
that we find the best response to terrorism. | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
Look after each other, help one another and think of one another. | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
It is by demonstrating our values, solidarity, community, humanity | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
and love, that we will defeat the poison and division of hatred. | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
People who commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam do not speak | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
for the Muslims in this country, do not speak for the Muslims | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
in this City and certainly do not speak for me. | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
We must not allow, in the coming days and weeks, anyone to try | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
and divide our country on the basis of faith or nationality | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
With your indulgence, Sir, I would like to turn for just | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
a moment to PC Keith Palmer who I first met 25 years ago | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
as Gunner Keith Palmer at Headquarters Battery 100 | :25:09. | :25:10. | |
He was a strong, professional public servant and it was a delight | :25:11. | :25:18. | |
to meet him here again only a few months after being elected. | :25:19. | :25:32. | |
And less than three hours before the attack, frontbenchers | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
in the House of Commons paid tribute to a former Sinn Fein leader to many | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
MPs heard those tributes in cold silence. | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
And I would like to express my condolences to the family | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
and colleagues of the former Deputy First Minister | :25:51. | :25:52. | |
of Northern Ireland, Martin McGuinness. | :25:53. | :25:54. | |
Of course, we do not condone or justify the path he took | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
in the earlier part of his life and we should never forget that, | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
However, as my Noble Friend Lord Trimble set out yesterday, | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
he played an indispensable role in bringing the Republican movement | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
away from violence to peaceful and democratic means and to building | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
Martin played an immeasurable role in bringing about peace | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
in Northern Ireland and it's that peace that we all want to see endure | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
for all-time for all people in Northern Ireland. | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
Before all this happened, the week had also brought | :26:27. | :26:35. | |
Labour Party tensions, revival of Scottish | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
independence talk and a setting of a date for Article 50. | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
Terrorism is an intrusion, an outrage, but it's | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
Normal service will be resumed whatever our enemies think. | :26:51. | :27:12. | |
Jonathan Russell is still with us. Alan, former Home Secretary, while | :27:13. | :27:21. | |
the police on the main gate into Parliament -- why are the police on | :27:22. | :27:29. | |
the main gate into Parliament not armed? They're the second line of | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
defence. Keith Palmer, you walk past him and say morning to him, he was | :27:36. | :27:43. | |
the unarmed person. Before 9/11, in about 97, there was no security at | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
all, you could walk through with your constituents. I I remember the | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
days you could walk up 10 Downing Street. Yes, so it's been a gradual | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
process. The police on the gates, in many ways, they're a tourist | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
attraction, they have they photographs taken with tourists over | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
and over again. They are a part of coming to Parliament. I think there | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
was a reluctance to put armed police in that position, but know of course | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
it might change. I think it probably will change. But these are the gates | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
that open and close quite a lot, cars are going in and out, | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
particularly at times of votes, ministers rush back, then rush back | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
to their departments. I mean there was a time in the immediate | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
aftermath of what happened yesterday when the gate remained open, indeed | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
one report in the Times suggested that a courier came through to | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
deliver a package? I mean, we know what it could have been? ! Yes, that | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
is exactly right. I mean, one doesn't want to get into loose talk | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
here, but let me say this, I would like to be reassured that there's | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
absolutely joined up strategies for defending Parliament and I mean the | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
interior, the outside, threats from the air, threats from the water, | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
threats from the land. I think almost certainly the way the gate is | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
guarded will change. The news this evening, if it's true that the | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
terrorist was actually shot by Michael Fallon's protection officer, | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
raises another set of questions about how quickly the team that were | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
meant to be there got there, so there are lots of questions that | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
need to be raised. It really does need to be joined up. I'm going back | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
a very long time but I will say when I was there, I was worried that it | :29:27. | :29:34. | |
wasn't completely joined up then, in particular the internal and external | :29:35. | :29:36. | |
threats were not considered together. That courier van couldn't | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
have got through, there was a vote on at time, so the bells were | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
ringing, there was a division and they opened the gates. Otherwise | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
there would be another security problem. I suspect this was | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
fortuitous on the part of the terrorist. Yes, it wasn't planned. | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
But coincided with the vote it led to the gates being opened and of | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
course to the Prime Minister being mobile. | :30:06. | :30:15. | |
We were reporting earlier that the attacker was killed by the Defence | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
Secretary's protection officer who happened to be waiting while Michael | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
Fallon went to vote. He was just there. It would suggest, you dread | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
to think what would have happened if we hadn't been there. It does | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
suggest security at a Palace of Westminster isn't as good as we | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
thought it was. It's a tricky one. Not only should we salute the | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
security services for how many attacks they prevent on a monthly | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
basis, we understand, but also what's tricky is getting the balance | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
between enough police that people feel safe and that they can do an | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
acute job like this, to keep us safe, but not so much that people | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
feel that there is a constant threat to our way of life. We are not even | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
at the highest terror threat level. We are not at imminent yet. Because | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
we do not know of any specific threat. Let's be honest, if this | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
attacker had been professionally trained and armed with automatic | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
weapons, this could have been a massacre. It could have been. The | :31:21. | :31:27. | |
story about Michael Fallon, that is the first I have heard about that. | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
But if he wasn't there, there are always three, four, sometimes six | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
armed police around that members entrance of New Palace Yard. So, you | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
know, there would have been guns there. If he had come in firing | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
guns, there would have been people there to deal with it. He was three | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
open doors away from the Prime Minister. That the layout. He was | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
only 20 yards inside the gate. He did not get further than that place | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
where you go down to the underground car park. He just got as far as | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
there, about 20 yards in. It just happens to be, if he had got a bit | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
further he could have got up to the Prime Minister's office. The war on | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
terror has become intelligence led. There will now be more demands for | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
more resources for the intelligence services, and I suspect they will be | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
irresistible demands. Yet, as we were saying yesterday, for the likes | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
of yesterday's attacker, that is the most difficult job for intelligence | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
services. It is almost like no matter what resource they have they | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
may not be able to pick up people like him. Let me just pay the | :32:44. | :32:51. | |
tribute again. Working amongst the communities where they have to work, | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
working with different languages, working with some communities that | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
are quite closed but which have to be opened up, transferring the | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
effort from Irish terrorism to Islamist terrorism, all of this has | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
been a prodigious achievement by the security forces. Prodigious | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
achievement. And yes, I think probably more resources will be | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
needed, and it looks as though those resources could be put to good use. | :33:22. | :33:27. | |
What did you make of the glowing tributes to Martin McGuinness this | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
week? I think we are all conflicted about this. My hero is a Derrey | :33:34. | :33:42. | |
politician, John Hume, who suffered just the same discrimination but | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
decided to take a different route. I don't see how you can justify, under | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
any circumstances, killing innocent civilians as part of your political | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
objectives. Having said that, it is absolutely clear that without Martin | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
McGuinness, that peace process would never have worked. And his position | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
on the Bogside in Derry, where he continued to live... You remember | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
shortly after the real IRA, the terrible outrage in Omagh, he was in | :34:16. | :34:24. | |
danger, he risked his life in the end on the peace process. So the two | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
parts of the Martin McGuinness are difficult to reconcile but in the | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
end, from everyone who was involved in that peace process, it couldn't | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
have happened without him. Could I just say, John Major started the | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
peace process but it would have been very difficult for a Conservative | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
Prime Minister or Cabinet to take the peace process very far, because | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
so many of the victims had been our friends. It required a change of | :34:55. | :35:02. | |
government. As it happened, Labour had not been in power for many | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
years, and so Labour people had not been the victims. It was therefore | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
more possible for Labour to continue the process. While we are talking | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
about courage, it actually did take courage for Tony Blair and then, my | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
goodness, for the Queen to shake hands with Martin McGuinness and | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
with former terrorists. And I have no complaint about that whatsoever. | :35:27. | :35:33. | |
Despite marvellous people who were killed by the IRA, marvellous | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
people, which makes it impossible for me ever to forget it, I do | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
understand how necessary the peace process was. Jonathan, thank you for | :35:43. | :35:44. | |
being with us. Now, we're a resilient | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
bunch here on This Week. Suffering regular eye-damage | :35:49. | :35:50. | |
at the hands of Michael's wardrobe and spontaneous, | :35:51. | :35:53. | |
severe narcolepsy at No wonder Molly The Dog, | :35:54. | :35:54. | |
who is French and so not quite as resilient as the rest of us, | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
is on permanent sabbatical Despite the bungling bozos that pass | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
for the production team on this show, there is one consolation: | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
we get to work in a city that In case anyone needed reminding | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
of London's character, we're putting resilience | :36:10. | :36:16. | |
in our Spotlight. London stood together tonight | :36:17. | :36:34. | |
in defiance of the terror that Londoners will never | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
be cowed by terrorism. This morning, millions | :36:38. | :36:45. | |
returned to work and went Why should we stop living our lives | :36:46. | :36:47. | |
the way we do for these nutters? At a moment like this I think it's | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
important that we come together to remember who we are, | :36:54. | :37:04. | |
that we don't let events like this change us and that | :37:05. | :37:06. | |
together we defeat them. In the Commons, it was | :37:07. | :37:08. | |
business as usual. Questions to the Secretary of State | :37:09. | :37:16. | |
for International Trade. Ensure that if we do have a trade | :37:17. | :37:18. | |
agreement with New Zealand, we won't be flooded | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
with New Zealand lamb. It wasn't just Londoners | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
who kept their upper lip stiff. I'm admiring really the resilience | :37:26. | :37:27. | |
of the citizens of London Australia's heartfelt | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
sympathy and resolute solidarity is with the people | :37:35. | :37:43. | |
of the United Kingdom, with whom we stand today, | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
as we always have, Londoner Simon Callow lived | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
through the troubles in Belfast. We think of ourselves as a resilient | :37:51. | :38:20. | |
city, a resilient nation. Are we? I think we are. Curiously, adverse tea | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
of this kind seems to bring out that aspect of our character. Without | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
adversity we can sometimes become indulgent, complacent, whatever. But | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
we seem to thrive on it in some way, as if we were waiting for just such | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
a moment. You think it brings out the best in us? It might do. My | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
parents' generation grew up in London in the Blitz and we know how | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
extraordinary, how liberating it was for them in a sense. They knew what | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
needed to be fought against, and they fought against it. What | :38:56. | :39:02. | |
happened in the Blitz puts yesterday into context. Terrible as it was, it | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
was not the Blitz. Are we more resilient than other nations? Is it | :39:09. | :39:15. | |
an island race, is it an island nation phenomenon, resilience? It is | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
hard to say, because the French have recently enjoyed outrages and they | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
have been remarkable. I was in Paris just immediately before Bataclan and | :39:26. | :39:32. | |
immediately afterwards. I suppose human beings are resilient. But I | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
think it is part of our national self image and we live up to it. Are | :39:37. | :39:44. | |
we resilient people, Michael? Yes, I think we are but we must not take on | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
an air of any superiority. New York City sustained 3000 deaths in a day | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
and the resilience of New York has been superb. So let's not try and | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
get one up on each other. Let's say that New York has inspired Paris, | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
that Paris has inspired us, that we inspired Brussels. That is the way | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
it has to be. I found in France that French resilience was beginning to | :40:11. | :40:12. | |
wane simply because of the scale and number of attacks. Charlie Hebdo, | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
Bataclan, Nice above all really tested French resilience to the | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
absolute limit, it was so horrendous what happened that night. There have | :40:24. | :40:30. | |
been a string of these. There was Berlin just before. Berlin was | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
extraordinary. Again, I was there immediately after that outrage. And | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
again, people had immediately recovered and insisted on business | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
as usual. It's a human instinct. The one thing that is what is true is | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
that the older generation is always more resilient than the younger | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
generation. At least, that is what they always think. That generation | :40:55. | :41:04. | |
that went through the war, two wars. And a depression. There was no | :41:05. | :41:15. | |
counselling service for people. When you listen to their experiences, | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
they just had to get on with it. In a sense, there is more concerned now | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
and more sympathy. In those days, there was very little of it, you | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
just got on with it in the most appalling circumstances. Resilience | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
helps if you have the right leadership as well. Churchill | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
provided the country with the right leadership at a time when we had to | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
be most resilient. Yes, but I have no reason to criticise any of the | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
leadership in the last 24 hours, whether from government or | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
opposition. Theresa May was pitch perfect this morning in Parliament. | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
Pitch perfect. But often leaders who are unimpressive in the ordinary | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
conduct of affairs suddenly become remarkable in these situations. That | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
was true of President Hollande, whose ratings were very low. For | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
Charlie Hebdo, he rose to the occasion. But sank again afterwards! | :42:12. | :42:19. | |
Ken Livingstone, for example, spoke remarkably eloquently and generously | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
towards the people who had suffered, and in favour of a diversity and | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
freedom in England, which the rest of his activities as a politician | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
haven't always endorsed. The one thing terrorists do when they do | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
this is that they remind us of the diversity, because they kill and | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
maim not just a small number of Brits, but people from all over the | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
world who have suffered. They suffered in 7/7 and they suffered | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
yesterday. 11 nationalities. What are you up to these days? Directing | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
a play by Christopher Hampton called the philanthropist, a wonderful | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
play, which has as its backdrop acts of political violence not at all | :43:09. | :43:10. | |
unlike the ones that have just occurred. What is interesting is | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
that the characters in the play each used completely ignore them, as | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
people very often do. Life, as we keep saying, goes on. Sometimes it | :43:21. | :43:27. | |
is the best way. I have a feeling we will need all the resilience we can | :43:28. | :43:28. | |
muster in months to come. That's your lot for tonight | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
folks but not for us. We're off to LouLou's | :43:32. | :43:33. | |
to party the night away. I know that might not seem | :43:34. | :43:35. | |
appropriate after yesterday's events but the Prime Minister has told us | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
it must be business as usual, and for us normal service | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
is our Thursday night knees up So we think of it as duty | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
rather than enjoyment. Don't let London's | :43:45. | :43:51. | |
stiff upper lip bite. London pride, written by Noel Coward | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
during the Blitz. London Pride has been | :43:59. | :44:08. | |
handed down to us. London Pride is | :44:09. | :44:10. | |
a flower that's free. London Pride means our | :44:11. | :44:12. | |
own dear town to us. Woa, Liza, see the coster | :44:13. | :44:14. | |
barrows, vegetable marrows Covent Garden Market, | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
where the costers cry. Cockney feet mark | :44:18. | :44:25. | |
the beat of history. Nothing ever can quite replace | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
the grace of London Town. There's a little city flower | :44:29. | :44:36. | |
every spring unfailing, growing in the crevices | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
by some London railing. Though it has a Latin name, | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
in town and countryside, London Pride has been | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
handed down to us. London Pride is | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
a flower that's free. London Pride means our | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
own dear town to us. | :44:56. | :44:58. |