Browse content similar to 31/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme. | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
This morning, when adoptions break down. | :00:09. | :00:10. | |
Families who've had to make the heart-breaking decision to hand | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
She got kicked, thumped, things like that, quite a lot. | :00:14. | :00:26. | |
And quite a lot of emotional abuse to her as well. | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
Yeah, and this is from a four, five-year-old kid. | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
And we'll hear from other parents who say they're struggling to cope. | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
If you've adopted a child and you're experiencing problems, | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
If you have got over problems, tell us how you did it. | :00:45. | :00:56. | |
Plus, this baby chimp has been rescued after traffickers tried | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
Its parents had been deliberately killed | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
We'll bring you the full story before 10am. | :01:02. | :01:33. | |
And, a legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
out of school for holidays during term time reaches the highest | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
We'll speak to the father at the centre of the case. | :01:42. | :01:51. | |
Throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest breaking news | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
And as always, really keen to hear from you. | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
After 10am we'll be hearing how a primary school in Bournemouth has | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
started allowing pupils to wear their comfy slippers | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
in class, after research found it helps them to get better grades | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
and generally improve their performance. | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
If you work from home, you might already know that's the case. | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
Donald Trump has sacked the United States' top legal advisor | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
after she questioned the legality of his travel ban. | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
Acting Attorney-General Sally Yates, who'd been appointed | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
by Barack Obama, said she couldn't defend the decision to stop refugees | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
and citizens of seven Muslim countries from entering America. | :02:39. | :02:46. | |
Donald Trump's controversial travel ban is facing resistance | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
After a weekend of mass protests, chaos at airports and a diplomatic | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
outcry came an unusual act of defiance on the part | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
Sally Yates, appointed US Attorney General by Barack Obama, | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
said in a letter to lawyers at the Justice Department that | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
given her responsibility to ensure that the government stands | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
Deeming that an act of betrayal, Mr Trump promptly sacked her, | :03:14. | :03:29. | |
installing Dana Boente as the new Attorney General. | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
Pending the swearing-in of Mr Trump's preferred candidate, | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, whose confirmation has been delayed | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
Sally Yates is not alone in her misgivings, though. | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
Barack Obama said in a statement that he fundamentally disagreed | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
with the notion of discriminating against individuals on the basis | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
US diplomats have also registered their concerns, | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
leading to this tongue lashing from the White House. | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
If these career bureaucrats have a problem with it, | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
I think that they should either get with the programme, or they can go. | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
Later today, Mr Trump is due to announce his pick for a place | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
The choice, he said, was one that would appeal | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
He may also be hoping it leads to some better headlines. | :04:17. | :04:26. | |
Our correspondent Richard Lister is here. | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
What is the significance of the Attorney-General role? | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
It is a big deal. The Attorney General is one of the top four | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
cabinet positions, they are seen as one of the guardians of the | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
Constitution. Although they are appointed by the president, their | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
first duty is to protect the Constitution, and it is up to that | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
person to defend Government laws at the Supreme Court, should they face | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
challenges. We know that the President's executive order on | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
immigration has been challenged by various courts, and it is likely it | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
will end up in the Supreme Court. Sally Yates could have resigned | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
quietly, she knows she will not stay, the president already has | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
another Attorney General lined up, he is going to the procedure. She | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
knew she would not be able to stay, she decided to make a fuss and say, | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
I don't believe this order is lawful, I don't believe Government | :05:26. | :05:27. | |
lawyers should defend it, and I will not defend it. | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary | :05:31. | :05:32. | |
A French-Canadian student has appeared in court in Quebec, | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
charged with the murder of six Muslim worshippers who were shot | :05:37. | :05:38. | |
Alexandre Bissonnette, who's 27, did not speak | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
He faces six counts of murder and five of attempted murder. | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
Vigils have been held across Canada in memory | :05:48. | :05:49. | |
The prospect of the UK leaving the European Union will move a step | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
closer today when MPs begin debating the bill that will give Theresa May | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
The Government was forced to draw up the legislation | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
after being overruled in the Supreme Court. | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
Some Labour MPs and the SNP have said they'll vote | :06:08. | :06:09. | |
Adoption organisations have told this programme that a cap on funding | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
for specialist therapy could lead to a rise in the number | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
The Adoption Support Fund, which provides financial help | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
for therapy, was cut last October to ?5,000 per child. | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
Agencies are concerned that without sufficient funds to help | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
children from disadvantaged backgrounds, families | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
And later in this programme, we'll be hearing from families | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
about their experience of adoption, and from some who've had to make | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
the difficult decision to hand back their children. | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
A network of wildlife traffickers selling baby chimpanzees as pets has | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
been exposed by a year-long BBC News investigation. | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
The research uncovered a notorious West African hub | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
for wildlife trafficking, and led to the rescue | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
The animals are seized from the wild and sold through corrupt | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
officials and middlemen for about ?10,000 each. | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
out of school for term-time holidays reaches the Supreme Court today. | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
The case will have ramifications for families across England. | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
Isle of Wight businessman John Platt says dozens of parents get | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
in touch with him every day about term-time holiday finds. | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
He decided to fight it all the way and says he has no regrets | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
after taking his daughter to Disneyland when she had 90% | :07:37. | :07:38. | |
The legal row is about what going to school regularly means. | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
I believe it meant attending school frequently or very often | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
but their position is it means every day. | :07:49. | :07:59. | |
That is the most-draconian interpretation of this legislation | :08:00. | :08:01. | |
Councils from the Isle of Wight to the north of England | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
The rules say if a head declares an absence unauthorised the local | :08:06. | :08:13. | |
council can find each parent ?60 per child. | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
That fine can double if it's not paid within 21 days. | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
Ministers say exam results shape children's futures and missing | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
even a few days can make a clear difference. | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
It's important because young people only get one chance | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
at their education and one week, two weeks out of that can make | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
an enormous difference in the progress they're able to make | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
in any given year and overall in terms of their education. | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
35 councils have told the BBC they've revised their guidance since | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
The Supreme Court will make a decision within months. | :08:49. | :09:00. | |
Scientists say they may have found the oldest human ancestor, | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
a microscopic sea creature, with a bag-like body | :09:04. | :09:05. | |
They've been studying fossilised traces of | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
the 540-million-year-old creature in China. | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
The sea animal is the earliest-known step on the evolutionary path | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
that led to fish and, eventually, to humans. | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
Peter Capaldi has announced his plans to hang up his sonic | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
screwdriver and step down from Doctor Who. | :09:25. | :09:25. | |
He will leave the Tardis for the last time during this | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
year's Christmas Special, saying he feels it's | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
Leaving us in need of a new Time Lord. | :09:31. | :09:44. | |
Peter Capaldi will hand over the sonic screwdriver at the end | :09:45. | :09:46. | |
He shocked fans with last night's announcement on live radio. | :09:47. | :09:55. | |
I've always been somebody that did a lot of different things, | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
I've never done one job for three years. | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
This is the first time I've done this. | :10:01. | :10:02. | |
And I feel it's sort of time for me to move on to different challenges. | :10:03. | :10:11. | |
And it means a familiar challenge for the show. | :10:12. | :10:13. | |
Now in its 54th year, with millions of fans, | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
Regular regeneration has become the hallmark of a time traveller | :10:17. | :10:35. | |
The new Doctor Who will be number 13. | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News. | :10:43. | :10:50. | |
Many messages from you on adoption, we will explore in detail the | :10:51. | :11:05. | |
reasons why some adoptions breakdown, completely unaware there | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
are so many positive examples, and I note you will give us some. One | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
person says, many traumatised adopted teams end up involved in the | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
criminal justice system. Jamie says, you are the only people focusing on | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
this, we need to ask why the care system does not help. Hannah says, | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
all I see negative stories, it would be great to see a successful | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
adoption story. I was brought up by the best adoptive parents I could | :11:35. | :11:36. | |
have wished for. Do get in touch with us | :11:37. | :11:38. | |
throughout the morning, If you text, you will be charged | :11:39. | :11:40. | |
at the standard network rate. Let's get some sport now, | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
and John Watson is at the BBC We'll start with the FA Cup draw, | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
and what a game in store Two non-league sides through for the | :11:48. | :12:00. | |
first time, and they have been rewarded with some fast it games in | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
the fifth round. This was the moment Sun United realised they were | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
playing the 12th time winners Arsenal. Fantastic scenes of the | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
draw was made. Arsenal and their superstars will be making the trip | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
to Sultan, the capacity there is just 5000. They play on an | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
artificial pitch. This was them knocking out Leeds United at the | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
weekend. Their capacity 55,000 less than Arsenal. It is an incredible | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
draw and a special moment for them, as it is for Lincoln City, the other | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
non-league side in the draw. They knocked out right in at the weekend, | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
they will play against Burnley. This was their victory at the weekend | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
over Brighton, 3-1. They have been rewarded with that much against | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
Burnley. Wolverhampton North East out Liverpool at the weekend, and a | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
credible result. They have been rewarded with a much at Molineux | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
against the Premier League table toppers Chelsea. Some great matches, | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
you can see the draw in full on the BBC sport website. | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
Can we expect a lot more business from what we have | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
Plenty, we should see records surpassed again, it was 225 million | :13:18. | :13:30. | |
in this window in 2011, we are expecting to see that surpassed, we | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
are at 150 million already. The biggest deal is not a purchase by a | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
Premier League club, it is Dimitri Payet moving to Marseille for 25 | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
million, that is the biggest so far. Saido Berahino left West Brom for | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
Stoke City 14 million, Morgan Schneiderlin moved to Everton for 24 | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
million, and with the transfer window closing at 11pm, we can | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
expect more moves coming. You can follow it all on social media. And | :14:02. | :14:10. | |
there is a special programme on BBC Radio five Live, Mark Chapman | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
following all of the moves as they happen until 11pm. My boys are | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
wondering what to do with their Dimitri Payet West Ham shirt is now! | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
Expensive times! It is 50 quid, unbelievable! | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
Finally, John, there may be a few angry runners who ran | :14:28. | :14:29. | |
They were 150 metres short of the exact instance, the 13.1 miles | :14:30. | :14:44. | |
required. Everybody who competed, anybody who completed a personal | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
best, all of those records have been wiped because they are 150 metres | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
short. They went out on Sunday after concerns that the distance was not | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
quite right, and that proved to be the case, the course was 150 metres | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
short, so they will be disgruntled, because they have to go back to | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
training if they want to try to meet that achievement again. The | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
organisers, what were they doing? Have you ever heard of anything like | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
this? I can imagine somebody is getting told off. | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
This morning, are adoptive parents being failed? | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
Failed because they're not given the full picture of the trauma | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
and damage their child has already experienced, failed because there | :15:32. | :15:33. | |
isn't enough support when things go wrong, | :15:34. | :15:35. | |
and failed because schools can't always cope with | :15:36. | :15:37. | |
Throughout the programme today, we'll hear from families who've | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
adopted and are struggling, and some who've had to make | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
the agonising decision to hand back their child. | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
Adoption UK estimate around a quarter of adoptive families | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
are "in crisis" and finding it hard to keep their family together. | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
A generation or so ago most children who were adopted were those born | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
outside of marriage or to teenage mums, whereas now it's more likely | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
they'll have been born to a mum addicted to drugs or alcohol, | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
or will have witnessed domestic violence or trauma. | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
Those early formative few months and years can have a huge impact | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
on the child as they grow up, causing untold problems. | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
Now, an Adoption Support Fund which was meant to help pay | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
for intensive and expensive therapy has been capped. | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
Our reporter Lesley Ashmal has been looking what happens | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
I'd always wanted to adopt children, even if I'd had my own. | :16:30. | :16:38. | |
You just feel that it's been made that much harder, A, | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
by the training you have to go through to be adoptive | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
parents and then, you know, to the point that you don't get | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
the help and support that you should have. | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
It felt like failure, it felt like letting this kid down. | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
And how can you do this to your own son, that you really love? | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
It's hard to imagine what it must be like to give | :17:00. | :17:14. | |
Parents could have fought for years for them. | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
To become an adoptive parent you have undergone rigorous tests, | :17:22. | :17:23. | |
But often the real challenge begins when the match is approved. | :17:24. | :17:34. | |
Adoption breakdown - or disruption, as it's sometimes called - | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
happens when a child either goes back into care or leaves | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
One adoption charity thinks as many as a quarter | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
of all families are in crisis, needing help to keep | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
But they are often struggling to get the help they need. | :17:49. | :17:57. | |
Rob, which isn't his real name, and his wife have | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
children of their own, but they adopted three siblings. | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
The reports warned the eldest had problems but nothing prepared | :18:07. | :18:08. | |
She got kicked, thumped, things like that, quite a lot. | :18:09. | :18:22. | |
And quite a lot of emotional abuse to her as well. | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
Yeah, and this is from a four, five-year-old kid. | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
And we were just shell-shocked, really. | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
What was the trauma like on you and your wife? | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
Well, my wife really shows the sort of symptoms you'd expect | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
from someone who's suffered domestic abuse at times. | :18:44. | :18:45. | |
I mean, it's clear that it's still so raw. | :18:46. | :19:03. | |
I ended up with quite serious depression. | :19:04. | :19:15. | |
I almost got sacked because I was taking a lot | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
of time off work with, you know, just dealing | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
And, yeah, very close to a breakdown, I think. | :19:23. | :19:32. | |
He just became untenable, which was why we finally had to ask | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
the local authority to step in and move him back | :19:39. | :19:40. | |
For us, you know, it felt like failure, it felt | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
And how can you do this to your own son, that you really love? | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
It was, you know, a heartbreaking decision. | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
His adoptive son had lived with them for nine years. | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
It's not known how many adoptions break down, | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
no national records are kept, but the estimated figure varies | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
from just over 3.2% to, according to one charity, nearly 9%. | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
It's known that children who are adopted when they are older | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
than four are 13 times more likely to struggle in a new family. | :20:25. | :20:33. | |
Professor Julie Selwyn has written the definitive research | :20:34. | :20:35. | |
It's whether they want to be adopted, if they are older, | :20:36. | :20:44. | |
and how long they've been exposed to adversity in their life. | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
I suppose what they've learned is that adults aren't very caring, | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
that adults can't meet their needs, and they find it's difficult | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
Liz, which isn't her real name, adopted two sisters. | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
The eldest was nine and never really settled into a new family. | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
The anger was just off the scale sometimes. | :21:09. | :21:17. | |
It was physical, it became physical, initially it was verbal abuse. | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
It was just a whole catalogue of not just bad behaviour, | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
and I appreciate what you have to try to do as an adoptive parent | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
is try and sort of differentiate what is normal teenager behaviour | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
and what is a result of where they've come from. | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
It affects every aspect of your life, it's not just | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
within your little unit, it's beyond that. | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
It can be work, the effects on your work. | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
I lost my business, had to give up my business because the stress | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
And, in a way, you sort of feel a bit of bitterness. | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
Not towards the daughter, but because of the whole | :22:02. | :22:03. | |
This is when the older daughter, when she first came, | :22:04. | :22:14. | |
and we felt it was important to keep, as they changed through | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
Are you optimistic that maybe in several years' time things | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
will resolve itself, maybe there'll be | :22:22. | :22:22. | |
I mean, we've already got a grandchild. | :22:23. | :22:32. | |
We haven't got that yet because we need to get... | :22:33. | :22:34. | |
We're going to get a nice professional photograph done, | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
so that can be part of the family photos. | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
Liz's daughter is now 18 and a mother herself. | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
She still calls her adoptive parents mum and dad, | :22:46. | :22:47. | |
It was difficult because it was a change, do you know what I mean, | :22:48. | :22:56. | |
and was a change that I'd never had before, especially when | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
So it was different, and that's what made it difficult, | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
You know, you don't know what to expect, really, | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
Because you're still a child, you're still, you know... | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
It was just strange on the parent side, because you've got | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
new parents, and that's a weird feeling, like. | :23:17. | :23:17. | |
Because things did go wrong, didn't they? | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
Yeah. It was mainly my adoptive mum. | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
My adoptive daddy works a lot and my little sister, | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
she was in nursery and primary school. | :23:28. | :23:29. | |
We clashed a bit because I didn't really let go of what I do | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
remember as a child, my first six years | :23:37. | :23:38. | |
And, obviously, for her that was hard, for me not | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
That was, you know, that was the main reason why we did clash. | :23:44. | :23:51. | |
Do you think you were badly behaved sometimes? | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
Obviously I was, most children are, you know, at times. | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
She might have thought I was a nightmare sometimes, | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
The children that I see around me, I see now as an adult | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
Do you know what I mean, I wasn't awful, I didn't go | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
round burning buildings or nothing like that, you know what I'm | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
There are about 87,000 children in care in the UK. | :24:16. | :24:25. | |
Those who've no chance of returning to their birth families can be | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
Every year, about 5500 are successfully placed. | :24:29. | :24:37. | |
They've usually been abused, neglected. | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
And a whole range of abuse, from physical abuse, | :24:42. | :24:43. | |
Often their mums have misused alcohol or drugs during pregnancy | :24:44. | :24:59. | |
so that they are born withdrawing from drugs at the time | :25:00. | :25:01. | |
And that's obviously going to have an impact | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
on their relationship with their new adoptive parents? | :25:05. | :25:06. | |
Professor Selwyn says specialist therapy is needed for youngsters | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
So how do you think this story is going to end? | :25:10. | :25:25. | |
And how do you think it's going to end? | :25:26. | :25:27. | |
Catchpoint is such a place, helping both children and parents adjust. | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
We start from the point of view of working with the parents | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
We want to have an attachment to focus. | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
We don't want the children to form an attachment to the therapist, | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
we want them to form an attachment to their parents. | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
So what we set up at Catchpoint is we're supporting the parents | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
as well as including them in the therapy. | :25:51. | :26:02. | |
I think without the therapy I personally would be | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
I would be, I think, forced to look at and use other | :26:10. | :26:17. | |
parenting techniques which are just | :26:18. | :26:18. | |
And will quite possibly make things worse. | :26:19. | :26:28. | |
The trouble is specialist therapy like this is expensive. | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
England has the Adoption Support Fund. | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
In its first year it helped 3500 families, | :26:35. | :26:35. | |
But demand has been so high the fund's now been capped | :26:36. | :26:46. | |
These parents wrote to us about their fears. | :26:47. | :27:04. | |
We've two adopted children who were traumatised. | :27:05. | :27:06. | |
And the Adoption Support Fund has been a lifeline to us. | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
Without the therapy it's paid for, our family | :27:10. | :27:11. | |
The therapy has actually given us hope, but we're only starting | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
to scratch the surface and the funding cap has | :27:16. | :27:17. | |
Our two adopted children have been diagnosed | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
A therapy plan was put together, but in November we were told | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
about the new funding cap and it may not even cover the cost | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
The therapy for our children will cost about ?30,000. | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
If they don't get help now, it could be too late. | :27:33. | :27:44. | |
Many interventions for these children need a lot more | :27:45. | :27:46. | |
This is therapy that needs to be ongoing and will cost | :27:47. | :27:54. | |
Particularly for these children, who've got very entrenched | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
The Government stresses it is committed to helping | :28:01. | :28:08. | |
vulnerable children and their adoptive parents. | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
They declined to be interviewed but issued this statement, | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
"We want more families to benefit from The Adoption Support Fund, | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
which is why we're looking at how we can distribute it more fairly | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
We plan to increase the fund's budget every | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
Everyone says adoptions are far, far better for children | :28:27. | :28:36. | |
than remaining in care, and most adoptions are successful. | :28:37. | :28:38. | |
Those who've suffered simply want a more help for people like them. | :28:39. | :28:46. | |
The pain of adoption breakdown is so vivid in this letter Rob | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
wrote to his young son who was returned to care. | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
It was too painful for him to read himself, so his words | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
I really want you to know that, as I'd guess that sometimes it's | :28:57. | :29:07. | |
I want you to know that I'm there, fighting for you as hard as I can. | :29:08. | :29:14. | |
I don't know how much you remember of your early days with us. | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
I remember that you didn't want me in your life at all. | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
I remember the first time that you ever let me hug you. | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
You'd been with us for over seven months and not let me hug you. | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
I remember that so clearly, because I love you, kid. | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
We had such hopes of what we could give, | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
The saddest bit for me is that we gave everything | :29:39. | :29:52. | |
that we had, but the people that we thought were going to be | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
backing us up and giving the bits that we couldn't, | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
If you've adopted a child, do get in touch with your experience. | :29:58. | :30:15. | |
Positive or otherwise. Particularly if you had problems what was it that | :30:16. | :30:23. | |
helped overcome those problems? It is clearly, as we saw from the | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
film, really, really hard adopting a child from a damaged background. If | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
a child is taken from their birth family then more often than not it | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
is because there are some damaging circumstances in which they're being | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
brought up. After 10am we will look at the cut | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
to the Oi doption Support Fund and what impact it could have on | :30:44. | :30:45. | |
families in need. If you want to read more about it, | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
there's a BBC News article Chris Akabusi has got in touch, he | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
was brought up in care, he says... This tweet says, it is modern | :30:53. | :31:13. | |
adoption, the young person... It says, we kept strong as a couple | :31:14. | :31:44. | |
and remained firm with the system. We are now happy to have our amazing | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
son. To get in touch in the usual ways, we will feed your pertinent | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
experiences into the conversation after 10am. | :31:54. | :31:55. | |
This baby chimp has been rescued after traffickers tried | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
We'll bring you full details of our investigation | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
into the illegal trade in baby chimpanzees. | :32:02. | :32:10. | |
That film is amazing, in the next few minutes. | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
Asylum seekers are being housed in dirty, rat-infested homes | :32:15. | :32:16. | |
in the UK, conditions which have been described as | :32:17. | :32:19. | |
We'll be talking to the chair of the committee | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news. | :32:23. | :32:31. | |
President Trump has fired the Acting US Attorney General, saying she had | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
betrayed her department by refusing to enforce his travel ban for seven | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
Sally Yates had told her lawyers not defend the executive order | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
he signed on Friday, as it might not be legal. | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
Ms Yates had been appointed by President Obama. | :32:48. | :32:49. | |
Mr Trump said his opponents in the Democratic Party | :32:50. | :32:51. | |
Meanwhile, a former head of the Foreign Office has accused | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
Theresa May of putting the Queen in "a very difficult position" | :32:56. | :32:57. | |
by inviting President Trump to make a state visit to the UK. | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
Lord Ricketts said it should be downgraded to an official visit | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
Thousands of people joined anti-Trump protests in London | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
A petition calling for his trip to be cancelled has gathered more | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
A French-Canadian student has appeared in court in Quebec, | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
charged with the murder of six Muslim worshippers who were shot | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
Alexandre Bissonnette, who's 27, did not speak | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
He faces six counts of murder and five of attempted murder. | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
Vigils have been held across Canada in memory | :33:35. | :33:36. | |
MPs will today hold their first debate on the Government's bill | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
to trigger the formal process of leaving the EU. | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
The Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has given his party strict orders | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
to support the measure, but some Labour MPs have said | :33:49. | :33:50. | |
they will join the SNP in voting against it. | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
on term-time holidays reaches the Supreme Court today. | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
Five judges will hear an appeal by Isle of Wight Council, | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
which fined a father, Jon Platt, for taking his daughter | :34:06. | :34:07. | |
to Florida without her school's permission. | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
Mr Platt challenged his fine in the High Court and won. | :34:11. | :34:18. | |
We will hear from him and other parents and teachers affected at | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
around 10:30am. Peter Capaldi is stepping | :34:23. | :34:24. | |
down from the role of He shocked fans by making | :34:25. | :34:26. | |
the announcement during an interview The actor, who has been | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
in the role since 2013, That's a summary of | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
the latest BBC News. More comments, emotional watching | :34:34. | :34:51. | |
about adoption breakdown. This e-mail, we have had our adoptive son | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
for two years, it was very challenging for the beginning but | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
now he has adapted to us fantastically, our relationship | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
feels so natural, sometimes we forget he is not our natural son. | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
John Watson is here again now with the morning's sport headlines. | :35:06. | :35:07. | |
Two non-league sides into the fifth round for the first time | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
One of those, Sutton United, have been rewarded with a dream tie | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
This was the moment they found out who they will be facing. | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
Arsenal and their superstars making the trip to Gander Green Lane, where | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
5,000 the capacity, 55,000 less than the Emirates. | :35:22. | :35:31. | |
Lincoln's reward for beating Brighton of the Championship | :35:32. | :35:33. | |
is a tie away to Burnley of the Premier League. | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
The side who top the National League were 3-1 winners last weekend. | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
The January transfer window closes at 11pm tonight with Premier League | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
spending expected to surpass the record from January 2011. | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
The biggest deal so far is that of Dimitri Payet, | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
who has moved from West Ham to Marseille for ?25 million. | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
But with plenty of time left for deals to be done today, | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
And, England received a boost ahead of their defence of the Six Nations, | :35:56. | :36:02. | |
with prop Joe Marler set for a comeback for the | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
grand-slam champions against France on Saturday. | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
It's about a secret network of wildlife traffickers | :36:12. | :36:21. | |
selling baby chimpanzees - a network finally exposed | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
after a year-long BBC News investigation. | :36:25. | :36:32. | |
The tiny, charming, adorable creatures are seized | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
Two suspected animal smugglers have been arrested in Ivory Coast. | :36:36. | :36:44. | |
Our science editor David Shukman uncovered a notorious West African | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
hub for wildlife trafficking, known as the "blue room", | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
and led to the rescue of a one-year-old chimp | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
Captured from a jungle in West Africa. | :36:56. | :37:11. | |
Orphaned after poachers killed its family, and now | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
Chimps are in danger, so exporting them is illegal. | :37:15. | :37:24. | |
But they are so adorable, they are wanted as pets | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
During a year-long investigation, we were sent these videos by dealers | :37:28. | :37:36. | |
offering to sell the tiny animals for about ?10,000 each. | :37:37. | :37:43. | |
The chimps are destined for a life of captivity | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
It's a cruel trade, and we've worked to expose it. | :37:47. | :38:01. | |
Our research led us to Ivory Coast, and a secret | :38:02. | :38:04. | |
We got in touch with a dealer called Ibrahima Traore. | :38:05. | :38:15. | |
He sent us a video of a crate specially made | :38:16. | :38:17. | |
He'd use animals you are allowed to export to provide cover | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
He then met a colleague of ours who was pretending to be a buyer, | :38:24. | :38:42. | |
Ibrahima spelled out his prices in dollars. | :38:43. | :39:33. | |
Then we had to wait for the deal itself. | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
While we negotiated over social media. | :39:38. | :40:01. | |
This video confirmed that he had a chimpanzee ready for export. | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
The recording used our fake name and the correct date. | :40:06. | :40:16. | |
Ibrahima even showed his face on camera, | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
Apparently not worried about incriminating himself. | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
Our undercover team got ready to see the chimp for themselves. | :40:25. | :40:34. | |
But we weren't going into this alone. | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
We briefed Interpol and the police in Ivory Coast, | :40:40. | :40:41. | |
Our undercover journalist was going to meet Ibrahima to see | :40:42. | :40:50. | |
the animal before confirming the deal, and we were following. | :40:51. | :40:59. | |
Our undercover colleague is in a car in front of us, | :41:00. | :41:12. | |
and he's following the dealer in a taxi who's meant to be | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
leading him to his house where the chimpanzees are. | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
We are in convoy with the police, and we are told it'll be about 30 | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
This was the pivotal moment in the investigation, | :41:24. | :41:33. | |
If we got too close, we risked being seen. | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
A tracking device helped to guide us along a highway. | :41:40. | :42:06. | |
A call from our undercover team ahead of us. | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
We were leaving the highway and heading into a maze of dusty | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
Using a hidden camera, our undercover colleague filmed his | :42:13. | :42:27. | |
His cover story was that he needed proof for a client in Indonesia. | :42:28. | :42:54. | |
And everyone there denied knowing anything about it. | :42:55. | :43:16. | |
Detectives charged through the neighbourhood. | :43:17. | :43:41. | |
Minutes later, the police got their man. | :43:42. | :43:59. | |
He is facing charges related to wildlife trafficking, | :44:00. | :44:14. | |
along with his uncle, Mohammed. | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
The police then focused on his family's house. | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
And a search led them to a small room, where they found a crate | :44:21. | :44:34. | |
So the police have just made all of these arrests. | :44:35. | :44:50. | |
It's pretty edgy here, the atmosphere, and | :44:51. | :44:52. | |
A baby chimpanzee taken from the jungle. | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
The real tragedy of this trade is that to get one infant | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
chimpanzee out of the jungle, all of the adults in its family have | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
to be killed, that's as many as ten adults slaughtered just to get one | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
We'd been advised not to touch the chimp until | :45:08. | :45:24. | |
So, for a few agonising moments, he was all alone. | :45:25. | :45:48. | |
The police then made a major discovery. | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
That this house was a key centre of chimpanzee trafficking. | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
For years, when investigators have been looking for clues | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
about smuggled chimpanzees, they've often seen these blue tiles | :46:05. | :46:06. | |
in the background of the videos offered by the traders. | :46:07. | :46:08. | |
Well, this is it, what everyone calls the blue room. | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
It's like a holding centre for animals on their way | :46:12. | :46:13. | |
The chimpanzee was taken away into the care of wildlife officials. | :46:14. | :46:32. | |
Many here were beginning to take the side of the men | :46:33. | :46:42. | |
The atmosphere was becoming more tense. | :46:43. | :46:51. | |
The police told us that we all had to go. | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
In the back of a car, the baby chimp watched nervously. | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
A new chapter in his short life was about to begin. | :47:02. | :47:10. | |
Hungry but safe at the zoo in Abidjan. | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
The keepers gave him a name, Nembly Junior. | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
The trauma he's been through May have caused lasting damage. | :47:17. | :47:27. | |
Will Travers is here, the president of the Born Free Foundation, | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
an international charity which campaigns to protect | :47:31. | :47:32. | |
What do you think? Well, it is a shocking report. Well done, David. | :47:33. | :47:43. | |
Well done the authorities for bringing this to the world's | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
attention. It is something which has been bubbling around for a long | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
time, but it never got this airspace before and it is a big trade. It is | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
not an isolated incident. This isn't one chimpanzee. Official estimates | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
about 400 chimpanzees have been trafficked since 2005 and if that | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
statistic that David gave us, ten dead for every one that makes it, | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
that's 4,000 chimpanzees that have been killed to traffic those 400. | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
David, referred at the end to, you know, lasting trauma on this | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
chimpanzee because of what it had experienced. What, you know, what | :48:18. | :48:23. | |
sort of impact will that have on a chimpanzee, it sounds bizarre saying | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
it like that, it will, won't it? We watched the film and we see an | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
almost little human being and we imagine the trauma that animal may | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
have suffered and maybe seeing his entire family wiped out. There are | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
specialist sanctuaries in Africa that specialise in chimpanzees and | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
they know what to do, this isn't a unique occurrence, but it is hard to | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
imagine how much that little baby has suffered. How many chimps are | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
left in the wild now, do we know? Between 300,000 and 400,000. It is | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
difficult to get estimates. That number is going down? That number is | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
in decomplain, all the great apes are in decline except for the great | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
mountain gorilla. What can we do? I'm sickened by what we see on | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
Instagram, where we see people having photographs taken by an | :49:14. | :49:16. | |
exotic animal. Don't do that. That's is a way that the traffickers | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
eventually earn money, by charging people for those photographs and | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
secondly, we've got to get to grips with illegal trade. They need the | :49:25. | :49:33. | |
resources to tackle this issue. Is that cash from governments, from | :49:34. | :49:36. | |
charities, what? Yes, it is cash, sort of cash from anywhere, but what | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
they need to do, I believe, is to know trade and chimpanzees and in | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
endangered species should take place even if it is from zoo to zoo unless | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
it is personally investigated and awe then ti kates the permits and | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
certificates involved. Thank you very much. Thank you. My | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
pleasure. Will Travers president of the Born Free Foundation. | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
On Monday we're holding a special programme looking | :50:08. | :50:09. | |
We'll be looking at the problems it's facing and asking | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
If you work in the NHS - a doctor, a nurse or a consultant - | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
or you're a patient with recent experience, we'd love you to take | :50:21. | :50:22. | |
It's in central London on Monday, 6th February. | :50:23. | :50:34. | |
E-mail [email protected] to register your interest and one | :50:35. | :50:36. | |
Asylum seekers are being housed in rat-infested homes in the UK, | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
conditions which have been described as "disgraceful" by MPs. | :50:42. | :50:49. | |
These pictures are from Glasgow and they have been provided to us by the | :50:50. | :50:56. | |
Scottish Refugee Council show some examples of what the MPs are talking | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
about. The politicians' report | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
focuses on accommodation The accommodation we're showing you | :51:05. | :51:17. | |
now is provided by a different company. | :51:18. | :51:19. | |
We were invited to view G4S homes in Sheffield. | :51:20. | :51:21. | |
The company chose to let us in, so they obviously chose one | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
The homes we were shown, which were for men only, | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
housed about five people from countries including Sudan, | :51:28. | :51:29. | |
As part of G4S' contract with the Government, | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
the company is supposed to provide safe, habitable accommodation - | :51:33. | :51:40. | |
but the report after a year-long investigation cited G4S as one | :51:41. | :51:42. | |
of the poorer providers of housing, and our reporter Chi Chi Izundu put | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
some of the report's findings to one of its senior staff. | :51:46. | :51:48. | |
We have a cleaning contractor who cleans properties for us. | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
Every single day they are going into properties to clean them. | :51:52. | :51:53. | |
The service users who live in the properties also | :51:54. | :51:56. | |
have a responsibility to keep the properties clean. | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
And we go over and beyond in that respect to give them cleaning | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
products, so that's not part of our contract but we do that. | :52:05. | :52:12. | |
But what is down to G4S and what is part of your contract | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
is you guys are supposed to provide furnished living. | :52:16. | :52:17. | |
In some cases cited in this report, people didn't have beds, | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
they were given a mattress and that's it. | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
There was a case where a young woman was given a baby's cot frame, | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
Some of the comments that have been made in the report are anecdotal, | :52:28. | :52:35. | |
we don't have clear information around those particular cases. | :52:36. | :52:48. | |
I would say to you that if anybody rings in to complain about issues | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
such as a lack of bedding or, like you say, cots that are not | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
properly equipped, then we would be addressing that immediately. | :52:55. | :52:56. | |
I think the vulnerable people that have lived in these properties, | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
when they've complained to your service centres, | :53:00. | :53:01. | |
There's even a quote saying "If you do this, it will backfire," | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
Absolutely, and I don't recognise that. | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
I am in that service centre every single week, | :53:09. | :53:11. | |
If I ever heard anybody talking in that way then there would be | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
an investigation to find out exactly what the content of that | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
conversation was, but I do not recognise the quote | :53:22. | :53:23. | |
G4S' managing director for immigration and borders | :53:24. | :53:35. | |
As well as the Labour MP Yvette Cooper who's in charge | :53:36. | :53:43. | |
of a group of Mps who've been looking into the issue. | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
And from Middlesbrough, we have Joel Mebara who spent time | :53:47. | :53:48. | |
living in a G4S property whilst he was an asylum seeker - | :53:49. | :53:51. | |
Joel now has refugee status and no longer lives in a G4S property. | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
Good morning. Thank you for coming on the programme. Would you live in | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
a house infested with rats, mice and bed bugs? No, of course, I wouldn't. | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
Why do you expect other people to do that then? I don't. I'm responsible | :54:02. | :54:03. | |
for 4,000 properties in our contract areas, it covers the Midlands and | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
the north-east of England. Across those 4,000 properties they are | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
regularly inspected. I think it was the Chief Executive of Serco who | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
described these as the most inspected properties. Does that mean | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
the inspectors are missing the rats and the mice and the bed bugs? Every | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
year we conduct 50,000 inspections and top of those inspections the | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
Home Office inspection team conducts a further 1500. What point are you | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
making? There are some houses with rats and mice and bed bugs in? Every | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
time we have an inspection That's one heck of a defect, is it? Isn't | :54:40. | :54:46. | |
it? Of those things that need to be addressed, 3,000 are phoned through | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
from the asylum seekers, the rest we find from our own inspections and | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
every time there is an issue, be it a bed bug or need for additional | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
bedding or a blocked drain, we address them. The issue is not the | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
fact that things go wrong in a house, they go wrong in my house, | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
they go wrong in every house, but the requirement we have to address | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
them which we do. Yvette Cooper, do talk to him. We heard evidence from | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
the providers about what they were doing, the problem is we also heard | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
just too many stories from all over the country about the kinds of | :55:21. | :55:22. | |
things that you talked about, whether that was about rodents or | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
the bed bugs or about unclean conditions. Now, I'm sure there are | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
some excellent examples of very good accommodation being provided, but | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
when you have so many examples that we were hearing of just awful | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
conditions and particularly for pregnant women or for people who | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
have been victims of torture, I think it is just a disgrace that | :55:44. | :55:45. | |
anybody should have to live in conditions like that. And I think | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
that the problem for us is we heard a lot of evidence about that there | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
are lots and lots of inspections happening, they're not dealing with | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
those problems. Therefore, our recommendation was that the | :56:00. | :56:01. | |
inspection regime should be passed over to local authorities so they | :56:02. | :56:04. | |
can do the inspections instead. Are you inspecting your own properties? | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
We inspect our properties and the Home Office inspect our properties | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
and the Home Office have an inspection regime. Last year over | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
550 inspections took place from local authorities. Each one of those | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
inspections had a list of defects, a defect might be that an individual | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
needed medical treatment. It might be that there was a blocked | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
lavatory. Whatever they find, it is our obligation to address it and we | :56:27. | :56:33. | |
do so and so I think there are about 107,000 defects ranging from large | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
and serious to small, all of which were addressed. So they are all | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
addressed, Yvette Cooper? That's not what we found. There is a reality | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
gap here. Asylum seekers were saying, I have complained about it. | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
I can't stop crying and I can't eat because of the mouldy smell. I'm | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
five months pregnant and I'm scared I will have to raise my child in | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
this way with dirt and vermin. I feel anything could happen. What you | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
also get is people who are afraid to complain because they're afraid that | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
somehow maybe if they complain about the accommodation well that will | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
affect their asylum claim or are just worried or don't know what the | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
system is for raising complaints and concerns. So you've got to have that | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
additional support in place as well. But I think, look, the sense that we | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
had is for all of this talk about the number of inspections and the | :57:27. | :57:29. | |
number of problems that are being solved, we just found too many cases | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
where it just wasn't working and that is the problem when you've got | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
vulnerable people being left living in these conditions. If I can | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
address the point of access to complaints. I'm not sure of contact | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
from the asylum seekers. Over 3,000 people will call our free helpline | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
this month. Yesterday, we had a call from somebody who had a chip pan so | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
we are relocating those individuals. The evidence is that asylum seekers | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
are prepared to make contact with us and remember as well as having a G4S | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
welfare officer, they have a dedicated Home Office case worker | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
who looks after their asylum claimment I have no influence or | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
interest in the application which the asylum seekers have as to | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
whether or not they are agranted asylum is not anything to do with | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
the providers such as G4S or Serbing co, it is the Home Office. Snaou | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
know that and I know that, but for a lot of them they don't know that and | :58:27. | :58:29. | |
they're fearful and that's the problem and I think the other thing | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
is you talked about the number of complaints and so on that you've | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
had, well, there are obviously a lot of other cases that are never making | :58:37. | :58:39. | |
it to complaints in the first place, so you're dealing with a high level | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
of complaints, and that in itself should raise concern about what is | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
happening and about the sort of standard of accommodation and | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
whether it is reaching the high enough standards in enough places, I | :58:52. | :58:54. | |
don't doubt that there are some very good levels of acam dougs. I'm | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
fearful that there are too many examples of just really unfit and | :58:59. | :59:01. | |
unfair accommodation that people are being put in. It sounds like you're | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
rejecting that? I'm saying that all of the accommodation which we have | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
is given to us by landlords. Local authorities have to give us | :59:12. | :59:17. | |
permission to take this property. I am inspected by the Home Office and | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
by the local authority. Where there is fault I must mend it. Where the | :59:22. | :59:27. | |
asylum seek erases to raise a defect, it is not a complaint, that | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
something has gone wrong with their house as well as my house. Yesterday | :59:33. | :59:36. | |
I received two letters both from MPs from Sheffield asking me toll | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
investigate specific cases which I will. | :59:40. | :59:46. | |
You were an asylum seeker. You have refugee status, tell us about living | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
in G4S accommodation. I have to say the house is in quite poor condition | :59:54. | :00:03. | |
and we sometimes have messy carpet without a hoover to clean it. And | :00:04. | :00:12. | |
the house is full of cockroaches, bed bugs, so it's quite a difficult | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
place to live in. And have you complained? I have complained a few | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
times. What was done? They said they would send someone to | :00:22. | :00:35. | |
look at it, but they never did. I had you talking about inspection. I | :00:36. | :00:43. | |
stayed in a house for two years, I never had an inspection in the house | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
I was living in. Respond to what he said. Very distressing. I would like | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
to have the opportunity to look into this, it is hard for me to pass | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
comment on individual cases. Where there is an issue raised, we have to | :01:02. | :01:08. | |
look into it. Everything is put onto a database that the Home Office | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
addresses. Were I not to meet a defect or a complaint, I would be | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
subject to sanctions from the Home Office. Nobody has done anything | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
there for two years. Rather like with the anecdote and the comments | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
in the report, I am not sure that represents the whole picture. I have | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
over 100 people in his area and into north-east looking after people like | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
him, and they are not businessmen, they full-time professionals, with | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
ten or 20 years experience, and four of our welfare officers are | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
themselves asylum seekers, so when the team visited Sheffield is today, | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
they had the chance to talk about -- to talk to one of our officers, an | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
asylum seeker. It sounds like Lionel. I do not put all of the | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
responsibility on you, because I think there are problems in the | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
contracting system come at the Home Office has to take responsibility. | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
But it has been too easy, whether it is for the BBC, for us or for other | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
people, to find so many cases where the standards are not being met, so | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
something is not working, whether it is in your inspection system or the | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
Home Office system or the way in which the accommodation has been | :02:27. | :02:28. | |
provided. The latest news and sport in a | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
moment. First, the weather. A cloudy day, with rain moving from | :02:36. | :02:47. | |
the West towards the east. It will be on and off through the course of | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
the day, and cloud in between, dampness and drizzle. The sunshine | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
will be at a premium, but the best place is in Northern Ireland. It | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
will brighten up, with just a few showers. It is mild for the West and | :03:02. | :03:09. | |
south. Through the evening and overnight, rain will push over | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
England and Wales, hitting across southern parts of Scotland. Some | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
clear skies across Scotland and Northern Ireland. We could see a | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
small touch of Frost, nothing too substantial. Tomorrow, we start with | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
this rain moving off into the North Sea. Behind, a veil of cloud, but | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
some will break through the day. Sunshine will come through, before | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
the next band of patchy rain and a strengthening wind from the | :03:36. | :03:36. | |
north-west. Hello, it's Tuesday, 10am, | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
I'm Victoria Derbyshire. Thousands of children | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
are successfully adopted each year, but a small number of cases | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
tragically end in failure. We hear why some adoptive parents | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
return their child into care. For us, you know, it | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
felt like failure. And how can you do this to your own | :03:56. | :03:57. | |
son, that you really love? We'll also look at the capping | :03:58. | :04:08. | |
of the Adoption Support Fund and what impact it could have | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
on families in need. Also today, this baby chimp has been | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
rescued after traffickers tried We'll bring you a special report | :04:16. | :04:24. | |
from the BBC's year-long investigation into the selling | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
of baby chimps, the killing of their families and the arrests | :04:32. | :04:33. | |
of the traffickers involved. Detectives charged to the | :04:34. | :04:48. | |
neighbourhood. They called on local people to help. Minutes later, the | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
police got their man. They have got him? They have got him. | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
And, should parents be able to take their children out | :05:02. | :05:03. | |
One father who did just that tells us why he feels | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
he did nothing wrong, as we await a Supreme Court | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
ruling on his actions in the next half an hour. | :05:11. | :05:19. | |
Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news. | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
President Trump has said he sacked the acting US | :05:25. | :05:26. | |
Attorney General because she had betrayed her department | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
by refusing to enforce his new immigration rules. | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
Sally Yates, who was appointed by President Obama, had ordered | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
lawyers not to enforce the ban on people entering America | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
She said she was not convinced it was lawful. | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
A former head of the Foreign Office has accused Theresa May of putting | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
the Queen in "a very difficult position" by inviting | :05:49. | :05:50. | |
President Trump to make a state visit to the UK. | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
Lord Ricketts said it should be downgraded to an official visit | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
Thousands of people joined anti-Trump protests in London | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
A petition calling for his trip to be cancelled has gathered more | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
A French-Canadian student has appeared in court in Quebec, | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
charged with the murder of six Muslim worshippers who were shot | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
Alexandre Bissonnette, who's 27, did not speak | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
He faces six counts of murder and five of attempted murder. | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
Vigils have been held across Canada in memory | :06:27. | :06:28. | |
Adoption organisations have told this programme that a cap on funding | :06:29. | :06:38. | |
for specialist therapy could lead to a rise in the number | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
The Adoption Support Fund, which provides financial help | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
for therapy, was capped last October to ?5,000 per child. | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
Agencies are concerned that without sufficient funds to help | :06:51. | :06:52. | |
children from disadvantaged backgrounds, families | :06:53. | :06:54. | |
And we'll be hearing from some of those affected by the change | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
to the Adoption Support Fund in just a few minutes' time. | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
on term-time holidays reaches the Supreme Court Five | :07:08. | :07:09. | |
judges will hear an appeal by Isle of Wight Council, | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
which fined a father, Jon Platt, for taking his daughter to Florida | :07:13. | :07:14. | |
Mr Platt challenged his fine in the High Court, and won. | :07:15. | :07:24. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News. | :07:25. | :07:26. | |
We will talk more about adoption in the next few minutes, do get in | :07:27. | :07:35. | |
touch. If you text, you will be charged | :07:36. | :07:36. | |
at the standard network rate. I want positive experiences as well | :07:37. | :07:46. | |
as problems and how you have worked through them or perhaps not. | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
John Watson is back now with more from the BBC Sport Centre. | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
Two non-league sides into the fifth round of the FA Cup for the first | :07:54. | :08:01. | |
time. Sutton United and Lincoln City have both been rewarded with some | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
impressive ties in the fifth round. Especially Sutton United, at home | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
against Arsenal, they have won the competition so many times, | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
outstanding award for them. You look at players like Rory Deacon, an | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
ex-Arsenal Ruth Beitia, he still has ambition, and what a dream it is for | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
him to play against his boyhood team. And Lincoln City, no | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
surprises, they did a good job with Brighton at home, and they are going | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
to Burnley. A tough place to play. They have a great record at home | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
this season, Burnley, but they were fancy their chances. What will it be | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
like for the players? Arsenal making the trip to Sutton United, the | :08:46. | :08:55. | |
stadium is 55,000 less than theirs. It is so intimate, we were there a | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
few months ago, it is a great place, a family run club. It has a special | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
feel about it, the team spirit and confidence will be high. It will be | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
difficult for Arsenal to adjust to the pitch and adapt. But I am not | :09:09. | :09:16. | |
sure they will have to much. But what a dream. It is what the FA Cup | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
was crying out for. Transfer deadline day as well, so we could | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
see players on the move, Premier League spending could top record | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
levels in January once again. A lot of movement later? I would think so, | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
a lot of clubs in trouble or wanting to get to the next level, so there | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
will be a lot of activity. It is just waiting for the domino effect | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
to happen. I am looking at Mousa Dembele from Celtic, to potentially | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
tie in for Chelsea. May she batch away could then go to West Ham, who | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
need a striker. That has been the biggest deal so far, Dimitri Payet | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
leaving West Ham for Marseille. They were after him in the summer, he has | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
not played a lot of football, and if that happens, Scott Hogan is not | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
going to West Ham, he might go elsewhere, and there could be a | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
domino effect. I expect a lot of activity. The window closes at 11pm. | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
What is it like if you have been rumoured with a potential move and | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
there is still no guarantee that the move will happen? How unsettling is | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
it? I moved in January once, from QPR to West Ham, it was quite | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
civilised and am quite early, but I can imagine what the players will be | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
going through, with social media and the agents. They must be looking at | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
their phone every five minutes, thinking, have I got the call? You | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
look at Leonardo Ulloa at Leicester City, a breakdown in comedic Asian | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
with the manager. He has not been playing -- a breakdown in | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
communication. It is sad to say that he will not play there again, he | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
will look at that as a mistake. I hope he gets a move, because he | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
looks like a good pro, he wants to play football, and he is not playing | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
at the moment. Is Lance Yamani is their focal point. Plenty of moves | :11:13. | :11:20. | |
still to play. The window closes at 11pm, you can follow it all on | :11:21. | :11:22. | |
social media. This morning, what makes a couple | :11:23. | :11:24. | |
give back an adopted child? There are many complex reasons, | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
not least because a child taken from its birth family will more | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
often than not have experienced But today there are fears that | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
limiting the amount of money available to help families | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
struggling with adopted children could lead to a rise in the number | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
of placements breaking down. The Government have capped | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
the amount of money available via the Adoption Support Fund | :11:48. | :11:50. | |
to ?5,000 per child. That money pays for therapy, | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
intensive therapy needed by children from violent, | :11:56. | :12:04. | |
abusive and disruptive backgrounds. But the therapy can cost | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
a lot more than that. Many families are worried their help | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
and support could be about to stop. We played you Lesley Ashmall's full | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
film earlier in the programme. Adoption breakdown - or disruption, | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
as it's sometimes called - happens when a child either goes | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
back into care or leaves One adoption charity thinks | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
as many as a quarter of all families are in crisis, | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
needing help to keep Rob, which isn't his real | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
name, and his wife have children of their own, | :12:39. | :12:47. | |
but they adopted three siblings. The reports warned the eldest had | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
problems but nothing prepared She got kicked, thumped, | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
things like that, quite a lot. And quite a lot of emotional | :12:55. | :13:10. | |
abuse to her as well. Yeah, and this is from a four, | :13:11. | :13:12. | |
five-year-old kid. And we were just | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
shell-shocked, really. What was the trauma | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
like on you and your wife? Well, my wife really shows the sort | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
of symptoms you'd expect from someone who's suffered domestic | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
abuse at times. He just became untenable, | :13:29. | :13:36. | |
which was why we finally had to ask the local authority to step | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
in and move him back It's not known how many | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
adoptions break down, but the estimated figure varies | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
from just over 3.2% to, Professor Julie Selwyn has written | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
the definitive research It's whether they want to be | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
adopted, if they are older, and how long they've been exposed | :14:03. | :14:11. | |
to adversity in their life. Professor Selwyn says specialist | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
therapy is needed for adopted youngsters who have been in care | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
and who have often But it is expensive and changes | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
to England's Adoption Support Fund means there's now a maximum budget | :14:27. | :14:34. | |
of ?5,000 per for counselling. Many interventions for these | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
children need a lot more This is therapy that needs to be | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
ongoing and will cost The saddest bit for me | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
is that we gave everything that we had, but the people | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
that we thought were going to be backing us up and giving | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
the bits that we couldn't, It isn't her real name, | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
and we are protecting her identity to protect her two | :15:10. | :15:28. | |
adopted teenage children. She has an adoptive daughter | :15:29. | :15:30. | |
with foetal alcohol syndrome, and is worried about | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
what the Adoption Support Fund cap could mean for the | :15:34. | :15:35. | |
treatment she receives. Jay Vaughan is the clinical | :15:36. | :15:37. | |
director of Family Futures, which provides therapy and support | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
paid for by the Hugh Thornbery is the chief | :15:41. | :15:42. | |
executive of Adoption UK and also the chair | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
of the Adoption Support Fund Julie got in touch. She is a member | :15:47. | :16:01. | |
of our audience. Julie is not her real name. She adopted her son when | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
he was six. By the age of 14 he had become aggressive and violent and | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
she and her husband took the decision that their son needed to go | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
back into care. Julie, hello. Thank you very much for talking to us. | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
Tell our audience a little bit about what you experienced with your son | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
between the ages of six and 14? We experienced a lot of violence | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
mainly towards myself. Extremely violent where I would have to call | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
the police and they would have to calm him down. What kind of things | :16:37. | :16:44. | |
was he doing? He would hit me with, he would pull the poles off the | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
curtain rails and whack with me them. He would just hit me generally | :16:49. | :16:56. | |
and scream at me. Throw things at me, smash things in the home. Lob | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
things at me. He was just extremely aggressive and violent towards me. | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
Wow. And presumably that's related to his first, the first six years of | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
his life? Yes, it was, he came from an extremely violent background, | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
drug and alcohol difficulties, he was born heroin addicted himself. | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
Right. Aged 14, you took that incredibly difficult decision that | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
he would go back into the care. Why did you make that decision? I made | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
the decision because he was having an effect on the younger sibling. | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
His full sibling in the home and also he kept absconding from us and | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
he would run back to the birth parents and they would secretly keep | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
him away and then he would turn up a few days later after a police hunt | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
for him. Can you give us an insight into what it is like to make a | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
decision like that? It is absolutely heartbreaking because... It is just | :18:01. | :18:08. | |
awful. It's really hard. It has an effect | :18:09. | :18:16. | |
on you forever, I think. We'll never stop loving him. He just needs so | :18:17. | :18:23. | |
much help that would just couldn't offer him and we couldn't get that | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
from any authority, they just couldn't accept that he needed | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
extreme help. Jay, you work in terms of therapy for children similar to | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
Julie's son. Absolutely. What would you say to Julie? She is clearly | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
feeling guilt for what happened. It is just so sad to hear that. I think | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
it's so familiar. There is so many families who we have seen sort of | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
close to that point and sadly some where it has disrupted and I think | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
sadly Julie is right, this is a grieving process which is very hard | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
to grieve because the child is still alive so you haven't lost a child in | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
the same way, but you're left with all those feelings of loss. So it | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
takes a long time to recover from and I think there needs to be more | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
help which is why we're all here today talking to really help these | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
families not get to that point because these children do need | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
intensive comprehensive help. Julie, stay with us as we talk to our other | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
guests here in the studio and please, please be part of the | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
conversation because, you know, what you have described is heartbreaking | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
as you said. Louise, you adopted siblings. I want to ask you what, | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
did you know about their background? What had social workers told you | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
about their background? They told us the most, I think of the information | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
that we needed to know as far as they knew it. They told us that | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
their birth family were addicted to drugs and mother had been a | :20:03. | :20:10. | |
prostitute and that there were members of a close family were in | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
prison. Right. And in terms of you bringing up your adopted children, | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
tell us what that was like? For the first few years I think a lot of | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
adoptive families are so happy to have a family. We solicitor injured | :20:27. | :20:40. | |
on and -- soldiered on and it wasn't until flagging it up to the school | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
who helped us get support and once my son was seven we realised we | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
really needed more support than the local authority could give us. And | :20:50. | :20:57. | |
before you were able to access that support, how close were you to this | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
adoption breaking down? We were just overwhelmed. I think the stress, a | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
child's trauma is transferred to the adoptive parents and I think that | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
the stress that we felt was so overwhelming that we couldn't see | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
straight. So we knew we needed more support, but we didn't really know | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
what that support should look like. Yes. We needed expert help. Jaougs | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
there is a lot more of it around now because this was a few years ago, | :21:26. | :21:35. | |
but there is still a complete lack of support for parents who are in | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
our situation. What support did you get as a result of money from the | :21:42. | :21:52. | |
Adoption Support Fund? We were back to CAMs who didn't help. Luckily the | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
adoption support fund came in and we were able to go back to Funding | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
Futures which was fantastic for our children because they built up | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
trusting relationships with the therapists there. What about the | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
cap? ?5,000 per child. To most taxpayers, they will be thinking | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
that's plenty of money? It is not enough. If you think about how much | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
a therapist costs and therapy for a child that's been traumatised and | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
their families isn't just go in for on hour and lie on a bench and | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
somebody talks to you and says breathe deeply, we do art, we do | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
drama, we do music, we do yoga, as well as talking therapy, there is so | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
much more, sensory integration work. Does it work? I know people will be | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
thinking you do art, how is that going to help a kid from a heroin | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
addicted mum. Tell us how it works? I think these children come with | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
complex problems, it is about you need a complex solution and you need | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
a very holistic approach and if one thinks about how trauma affects the | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
whole body and the nervous system, the whole way a child is wired is | :23:02. | :23:11. | |
around the trauma. Trauma. Expressing themselves verbally is | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
not easy. It isn't a way that accesses for all of them. Being able | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
to put it, draw something on a piece of paper, why is that, a release for | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
them if they can't express it verbally, why does the art help? | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
T-provides another way of expressing the unexpressable. What these | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
children have been through sometimes is so horrific, how do you find | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
words for it? If you can paint it and I think there was artwork used | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
in your film earlier. If you can paint it and if you can act it out, | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
it is another way of expressing it, rather than reenacting it on the | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
adoptive parents or on the sibling. There is a need, we all have a need | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
with trauma, to tell others about it. But it is about finding a safe | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
way of communicating. Right, Hugh, let's just talk about this adoption | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
support fund because when I look at the total funding from the | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
Government, it's going up. ?19 million to ?23 million. Yes, the | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
amount per family is going to be capped at ?5,000, but the Department | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
for Education say, if there is need, for more therapeutic support for a | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
child, where it exceeds the ?5,000, the funding will be split between | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
the local council, if the council agrees, and the Government | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
effectively. So, therapy could still be paid for up to ?30,000, ?40,000, | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
?50,000. One of the great things about the adoption support fund is | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
the fact that it began to address the postcode Lottery because there | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
is a level of need that's been unmet for a long time that you have been | :24:47. | :24:48. | |
hearing about. Some local authorities have been much better at | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
recognising that and meeting it than others. So if you roll back three or | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
four years, it was a very, very mixed picture across the country. A | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
national fund helped to equalise that and it has benefited now nearly | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
8800 families. I think by bringing in the limit it does obviously | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
potentially risk those children who have got higher levels of need being | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
able to access the service they want and we have seen because there has | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
been a limit imposed this year, sorry this last year, we see that | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
some local authorities are prepared to match fund, to bring the amount | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
up, other authorities are refusing to do that, probably because of cuts | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
to their budgets. So the risk is we're moving back into a situation | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
where depending on where you live you either get a reasonably good | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
service. Although the Department for Education say 80% of applications to | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
fund, to the fund, are under ?5,000 per child. So under the limit. | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
That's right. The average is about ?4,000. So the majority's needs will | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
still be met with the fair access limit that's been brought in, but it | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
does pose the issue of some of the cases that we have just been hearing | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
about that will require a far greater degree of therapy than that, | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
over a period of time. And the big missing thing here is the discussion | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
about mental health services because the Government put ?1.4 billion, | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
which puts the fund into prospective, ?1.4 billion into | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
additional services for children's mental health, half of the clinical | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
commissioning groups in the country, the GP-led groups that decide how | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
funding is used has spent that money on other things. It has not gone to | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
those services. So, we need to talk about the fund and how that's | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
helping and what some of the limitations are and we need to | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
understand there is a bigger issue about many of these children have | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
needs and they are not being met. Let me bring in a viewer who doesn't | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
want to leave their name. We have two adopted children. Our son is 13 | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
and our daughter is nine. Our children experienced neglect and | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
abuse for a long time with their birth families before they were | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
taken into care. And it is extremely challenging at times. I sympathise | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
with those adoptive parents who have had to take the heartbreaking | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
decision to place their son or daughter back into care. Very few | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
people understand just how hard adoption is. For us, at this time, | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
it is, it remains the best thing we've ever done, but without | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
support, we don't know what may happen in the future and that is | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
your worry, I think Libby as well, you have a three-year-old daughter. | :27:23. | :27:24. | |
She is here today, you got help from the adoption support fund back in | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
March last year. Why did you need that financial help? So my daughter | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
has foetal alcohol syndrome. Explain what that is? Before I adopted her, | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
I knew there was a lot of alcohol consumed in pregnancy, I knew she | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
had emotional or behavioural issues linked to the substance misuse. Her | :27:47. | :27:54. | |
mum was an alcoholic? A lot of the drinking happened before she knew | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
she was pregnant. People drink and not realise there are no safe limits | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
in pregnancy. But she did come with this future risk of foetal alcohol | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
syndrome, but after she was placed with me, it became clear quickly | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
this was a definite need that she had. She had quite significant | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
sensory issues and that's kind... What does that mean? She is very | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
young and they said before she was placed that she didn't like loud | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
noises, but I hadn't quite comprehended or understood how | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
limiting that was. She couldn't cope with the sound of vegetables being | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
chopped on a board, the hoover, I remember when she moved in, she was | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
asleep and I switched a light on downstairs and it woke her up. She | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
isn't able to regulate noise. The social workers said, look, she may | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
have a problem with loud noises. Yes. You hadn't understood the | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
extent. Do you feel they didn't give you enough information or perhaps | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
they just gave you what they had, they didn't know anymore? I think it | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
is what they had. There was a change in social worker at the last hurdle | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
so the social worker that was involved the whole way through, was | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
never the one I dealt with and I feel fortunate with our local | :29:02. | :29:03. | |
authority that they have been supportive and what I understood in | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
the future I was probably going to deal with foetal alcohol, but there | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
was no real expectation that it was going to be immediate and I think | :29:11. | :29:13. | |
also the change in placement, the moving to live with me taken away | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
from her loving foster parents was probably just a catalyst for what | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
would have happened anyway, but it did mean it was said that the child | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
I was placed with was not the child that anybody had expected. And both | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
in good ways and bad ways. I'm not knocking that. You have had support | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
from the adoption support fund and in what form does that take with | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
your little girl? It became really clear to me she needed occupational | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
therapy, a way to manage her senses and a way to leave the house without | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
her having an aggressive meltdown. I did my own research and I found a | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
really good organisation, On The Go who specialise in that and contacted | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
my social worker, but again with the adoption support fund it clearly | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
says they won't pay for occupational therapy. So initially I funded it | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
myself. And then we real I seed they will pay for occupational therapy if | :30:10. | :30:15. | |
it is sensory integration, I come across adopters and they say, we | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
know they won't pay for that and there are limits. The other thing my | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
daughter needs is speech and language which I can't access on the | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
adoption support fund. Once I accessed, it was life changing and | :30:30. | :30:30. | |
we have been fortunate. The total budget has gone up, but we | :30:31. | :30:39. | |
have regressed to a postcode lottery, so what can you do? We can | :30:40. | :30:46. | |
raise these issues. We monitor the use of the Adoption Support Fund, we | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
get information on which authorities are using it, which are not, we get | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
intelligence about whether people are waiting too long for assessment, | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
except rep. Adoption UK and those I work with will continue to ensure | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
the money is easily accessed for the families that meet the criteria, we | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
will continue to persuade Government that it needs to invest, because we | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
are only beginning to see the full extent of the level of need. Many | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
adopters have been better -- detached from the professionals they | :31:17. | :31:25. | |
have not received help. Up until -- up to 25% of families have | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
experienced real difficulties and are now beginning to realise there | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
is something that might be there to help them. That puts pressure on the | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
amount of funding that has been put in place. As far as I understand it, | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
official figures are not kept on how many breakdowns there are, the | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
estimates range from about 3% to 9% to even a third. Research says a | :31:49. | :31:57. | |
third are OK, a third struggle and a third to shrug. What is clear in | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
other research is that the cost records are not clearly kept, we do | :32:04. | :32:10. | |
not know how many adaptions -- adoptions are breaking down. Our | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
experience is that it's a high number breaking down or close to | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
disruption, and in the last week we have had two families saying if | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
there is no funding, we don't think we can go on, we will have to say to | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
the local authority, we can't do this. It is a serious problem, and I | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
am worried about how the cap will happen. | :32:31. | :32:43. | |
Really appreciate you talking to us. Talking through what a heartbreaking | :32:44. | :32:51. | |
decision and you talk, we really appreciate it. | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news. | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
President Trump has fired the Acting US Attorney-General, | :33:02. | :33:03. | |
saying she had "betrayed" her department by refusing | :33:04. | :33:05. | |
to enforce his travel ban for seven mainly-Muslim countries. | :33:06. | :33:07. | |
Sally Yates had told her lawyers not to defend the executive order | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
which the President signed on Friday, as it might not be legal. | :33:11. | :33:13. | |
Ms Yates had been appointed by President Obama. | :33:14. | :33:15. | |
Mr Trump said his opponents were trying to obstruct him. | :33:16. | :33:21. | |
MPs will this afternoon hold their first debate | :33:22. | :33:23. | |
on the Government's bill to trigger the formal process | :33:24. | :33:25. | |
The Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has given his party strict orders | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
to support the measure but some Labour MPs have said they will join | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children | :33:33. | :33:41. | |
on term-time holidays reaches the Supreme Court today. | :33:42. | :33:42. | |
Five judges will hear an appeal by Isle of Wight Council, | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
which fined a father, Jon Platt, for taking his daughter | :33:46. | :33:47. | |
to Florida without her school's permission. | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
Mr Platt challenged his fine in the High Court, and won. | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
Join me for BBC Newsroom Live at 11am. | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
Here's some sport now with John Watson. | :34:00. | :34:01. | |
Two non-league sides into the fifth round for the first time | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
One of those, Sutton United, have been rewarded with a dream tie | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
This was the moment they found out who they will be facing. | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
Arsenal and their superstars making the trip to Gander Green Lane, where | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
5,000 the capacity, 55,000 less than the Emirates. | :34:19. | :34:26. | |
Lincoln's reward for beating Brighton of the Championship | :34:27. | :34:28. | |
is a tie away to Burnley of the Premier League. | :34:29. | :34:30. | |
The side who top the National League were 3-1 winners last weekend. | :34:31. | :34:38. | |
The January transfer window closes at 11pm tonight with Premier League | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
spending expected to surpass the record from January 2011. | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
The biggest deal so far is that of Dimitri Payet, | :34:47. | :34:49. | |
who has moved from West Ham to Marseille for ?25 million. | :34:50. | :34:51. | |
But with plenty of time left for deals to be done today, | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children | :34:55. | :35:04. | |
out of school for holidays during term-time reaches | :35:05. | :35:06. | |
the highest court in the land today, the Supreme Court. | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
This will have a massive impact on any parent. | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
Five justices will hear an appeal by Isle of Wight Council, | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
which fined a father, Jon Platt, for taking his daughter | :35:20. | :35:21. | |
to Florida without her school's permission. | :35:22. | :35:23. | |
Mr Platt challenged his fine in the High Court and won, and now | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
it's gone to the Supreme Court for a final judgement. | :35:27. | :35:28. | |
If you have taken your child out of school for a holiday | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
without permission, so it's an unauthorised absence, | :35:32. | :35:33. | |
Speaking ahead of the case, Jon Platt told us how he was feeling. | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
I thought I'd be a lot more nervous than I am. | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
All of this is now out of my hands, it's in the hands of my very | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
talented legal team and in the hands of the Supreme Court justices. | :35:49. | :35:50. | |
Well, the Supreme Court has been asked to make quite shocking ruling. | :35:51. | :35:57. | |
So the Department for Education and the Isle of Wight Council, | :35:58. | :36:00. | |
they're going to argue that any unauthorised absence from school | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
So their interpretation of children attending school regularly | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
is that they should attend on every day that the school requires it. | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
And the Supreme Court is entitled to come to that opinion, | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
they are entitled to agree with them, but if they do, | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
12.8 million unauthorised absences happened in the last academic year. | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
Just the last autumn term of 2015, there was 4.1 million | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
If we lose today, those unauthorised absences all become | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
criminal offences and, going forward, any single day that | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
a child misses at school without the permission of the school | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
But maybe that's what's needed to make sure their child | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
It's not needed in this country, I don't think. | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
But I don't think there are any circumstances under which that level | :36:49. | :36:57. | |
of draconian interpretation of the word regularly | :36:58. | :36:58. | |
I don't see any circumstances under which a child with maybe 98, | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
99% attendance, the parents should be dragged to court. | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
It would be outrageous, absolutely outrageous. | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
Well, the Department for Education says regular attendance means not | :37:09. | :37:10. | |
Let's just be clear, Victoria, they have never | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
It is only in relation to this case and, boy, | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
have we looked hard to find statutory guidance or caselaw | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
where anybody has ever said that regular attendance in school | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
But you're right, they do say that now. | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
35 councils in England no longer fine parents for term-time | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
holidays as a direct result of Jon Platt's case. | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
Jerry Glazier is an executive member of the National Union of Teachers. | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
He doesn't think fining parents is the right way forward. | :37:44. | :37:45. | |
Samantha Woodland is a mother from Cleethorpes. | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
John Mitchell is a father from Portsmouth who has been fined | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
And Denise Pritchett was fined yesterday for taking her | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
That is the intention. You sure? I would rather pay that now than leave | :37:56. | :38:14. | |
it and try and appeal it and potentially cost me thousands of | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
pounds. Why did you take your daughter out in October? It was my | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
elder daughter's GCSEs last year, and it was her reward for doing | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
well. It is my jumper daughter that we have received the fine for. Did | :38:32. | :38:38. | |
you have to go away then? The trip was to Florida. It was Halloween | :38:39. | :38:47. | |
that my daughter wanted to go. Halloween only occurs in October. | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
The previous year, the school had actually given us two weeks' holiday | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
in October. I had anticipated they would do the same again, but they | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
did not. You have been fined how many times? Once. You took her to | :39:06. | :39:14. | |
Disneyland Paris for her birthday. You refusing to pay. We did ask the | :39:15. | :39:25. | |
school, we said in a letter, it went to the Board of Governors, they | :39:26. | :39:33. | |
turned it down. They said, can't you take her when it is the school | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
holidays? Have you seen the prices of holidays in the summer? We paid | :39:37. | :39:44. | |
an arm and a leg to take a two distiller in Paris in November. If I | :39:45. | :39:52. | |
wanted to look about holiday in the school holidays, I would have paid | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
double. Definitely. Does your daughter need that holiday? No! Your | :39:58. | :40:10. | |
response tells me the answer! I am a dad that always says yes to my | :40:11. | :40:19. | |
daughter. You setting up problems! We ask her, what do she want to do | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
for her birthday? Guess what she says, Disneyland Paris, of course! | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
She wanted to take her friend as well. Did you say guests? Yes, she | :40:30. | :40:37. | |
is at a different school. She never got fined. That is interesting. That | :40:38. | :40:46. | |
is probably because of this case. Samantha, hello. Your son has had an | :40:47. | :40:55. | |
excellent attendance record. You talk him out of school for a | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
wedding, you have been fined and you are refusing to pay. We took him out | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
for two family weddings which were in the same week. One was in Fort | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
William and the second was in the Orkneys, so it is not a trip you can | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
do within a day. You could not have been surprised when you got the | :41:15. | :41:21. | |
fine? We put the request in, and under the circumstances, until | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
recently, we were a military family, my husband served for the last 15 | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
years, and due to those commitments we have missed countless family | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
gatherings. So now we are out in civvy Street, we were hopeful that | :41:38. | :41:44. | |
we would be permitted... It is a one off, I do not think we should be | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
punished for it. If this Supreme Court case means parents will be | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
criminalised and find for taking their children out of school, is | :41:56. | :42:02. | |
that right? The National Union of Teachers believes passionately that | :42:03. | :42:04. | |
everything should be done for children to attend school. It is | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
important that parents understand sometimes the negative impact of | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
taking their children out. But fining parents creates a negative | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
environment, and it creates confrontation. How would you deal | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
with parents who do it? You began to deal with him very well! It is not | :42:28. | :42:35. | |
my job! It is engaging with parents constructively and saying, think | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
about this think about the impact think about whether it is absolutely | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
necessary. There will be occasions when it is necessary. It is | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
different from persistent truancy. If you do it on a case-by-case | :42:50. | :42:57. | |
basis, Samantha says, military family, we have missed weddings, | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
family gatherings, finally we can take our child, they are a bit of a | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
trek, the Orkneys and the other place, I have forgotten... For | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
William. Broadly, most parents might say, take your child. Some might say | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
to you, it is Disneyland Paris, it is not a family wedding. But then | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
John will say, hang on, some of the's it can go to a wedding, why | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
can't I go to Paris for my daughter's birthday? There needs to | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
be some sophistication and discretion. The problem in the past | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
has been that the Department for Education has handed down a diktat | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
to headteachers and said, you have got to say no on every case. You | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
say, leave it to headteachers? Give them the discretion to understand | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
the circumstances to make a decision. We asked for our daughter | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
to come out two weeks ago to go to a family funeral and they denied us an | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
hour and a quarter. So we took her away for the whole day. We will | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
report back on the case when the Supreme Court hands down the | :44:09. | :44:10. | |
decision. Two suspected animal smugglers have | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
been arrested in Ivory Coast following a year-long BBC | :44:14. | :44:15. | |
investigation into the trafficking There's growing demand for baby | :44:16. | :44:17. | |
chimps as exotic pets The only way to catch them is to | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
kill the adults in their families. Our science editor David Shukman | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
found dealers willing to sell the apes, which are an endangered | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
species, for $12,500 each. After arresting the men, | :44:32. | :44:38. | |
police uncovered computer and mobile phone evidence of an international | :44:39. | :44:40. | |
smuggling network linking corrupt We played you David's full film | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
earlier in the programme. Captured from a jungle | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
in West Africa. Orphaned after poachers | :44:50. | :45:07. | |
killed its family, and now Chimps are in danger, | :45:08. | :45:09. | |
so exporting them is illegal. But they are so adorable, | :45:10. | :45:19. | |
they are wanted as pets During a year-long investigation, | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
we were sent these videos by dealers offering to sell the tiny animals | :45:23. | :45:30. | |
for about ?10,000 each. We got in touch with a dealer | :45:31. | :45:38. | |
called Ibrahima Traore. He sent us a video of | :45:39. | :45:53. | |
a crate specially made He then met a colleague of ours | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
who was pretending to be a buyer, Ibrahima spelled out | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
his prices in dollars. Using a hidden camera, | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
our undercover colleague filmed his I'm OK, yes, I'm just a bit | :46:06. | :46:24. | |
afraid of the animal. His cover story was that he needed | :46:25. | :46:35. | |
proof for a client in Indonesia. And everyone there denied | :46:36. | :46:45. | |
knowing anything about it. Detectives charged | :46:46. | :47:10. | |
through the neighbourhood. He's facing charges related | :47:11. | :47:36. | |
to wildlife trafficking, along with his uncle, | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
Mohammed. And a search led them to a small | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
room, where they found a crate So the police have just made | :47:44. | :47:46. | |
all of these arrests. It's pretty edgy here, | :47:47. | :47:55. | |
the atmosphere, and A baby chimpanzee | :47:56. | :47:57. | |
taken from the jungle. The real tragedy of this trade | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
is that to get one infant chimpanzee out of the jungle, | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
all of the adults in its family That's as many as ten adults | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
slaughtered just to get one chimp Hungry but safe at | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
the zoo in Abidjan. The keepers gave him | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
a name, Nembly Junior. But the trauma he's been through may | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
have caused lasting damage. Live in Nairobi is John Scanlon | :48:24. | :48:30. | |
from Cites, which aims to ensure that international trade of wild | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
animals does not Dr Rebecca Atencia is from | :48:34. | :48:35. | |
the Jane Goodall Institute, and is director of their chimpanzee | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
sanctuary in the Democratic Dr Cleve Hicks is a specialist | :48:43. | :48:44. | |
in chimp behaviour, having worked with them for more than 15 years | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
in the wild. And Kaddu Sebunya is president | :48:50. | :48:55. | |
of the African Wildlife Foundation, which works directly with African | :48:56. | :48:57. | |
governments for the Welcome all of you. John Scanlon, | :48:58. | :49:12. | |
how big is this problem of trafficking in chimpanzees? Well, | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
illegal wildlife trade is having a devastating impact on a large number | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
of wild animals and plants for that matter and here I think this | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
investigative report just displayed for us graphically how traumatic | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
this illegal wildlife trade is when you're looking at live animals, a | :49:31. | :49:36. | |
beautiful chimpanzee put into illegal trade. It's run by trance | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
national organised criminal gangs. People who are very savvy. They do | :49:42. | :49:43. | |
everything they can to avoid the law. They corrupt people along the | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
way. So I think you've really exposed, you know, how disturbing | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
this illegal trade is and the sort of measures that these trans | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
national organised gangs go to shift the wildlife across international | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
borders. Rebecca, what impact can it have on a chimp's well-being, being | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
ripped from their family at a young age? The impact it can have just | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
incredible because it affects when it is one or two years old, at that | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
time the mother is the centre of their life. The bond they have | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
established with their mother at that time is so important and the | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
attachment and that means that they love the mother and they see how | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
they kill her in front of them and it affects their personality for the | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
rest of their life and it is so difficult to recover interest that | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
trauma that they suffered in that moment. Kadu, what are you doing to | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
try to reduce the trafficking of these chimps? We have a conversation | :50:44. | :50:53. | |
with the BBC for exposing this illegal crime. We have tried to | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
focus on the three areas. We are trying to stop the killing and stop | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
the trafficking and reduce the demand in other countries and we | :51:04. | :51:12. | |
cannot do do any better than looking at the habitats, conservation, | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
looking at communities around the habitats, but also focus on African | :51:16. | :51:23. | |
Government and how they can strengthen their laws. Africa is | :51:24. | :51:31. | |
losing the species that we need for our devolvement. That's a big issue | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
on the Continent. Clive, how easy is it to reintegrate a chimp into the | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
wild? It is actually really, really difficult and actually impossible | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
because chimpanzees, if you are trying to reintegrate them into a | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
social group that's already there, they are fend owe phobic, any orphan | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
that would you would try to put into the group would be killed, you | :51:54. | :51:56. | |
shouldn't bring it anyway because they can bring diseases from the | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
humans. They can never really go back out in the forests and live a | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
full chapl pan ze life again. So they have to be integrated into | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
sanctuary environment then? Exactly. Exactly. There is I've worked with | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
sanctuaries in eastern Congo that provide a really good home for these | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
chimps that really can't go anywhere else. Rebecca, your job is working | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
with can chimps in the dronk. Tell us about their life in your | :52:27. | :52:34. | |
sanctuary? -- Democratic Republic of Congo. We need to establish bonding | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
again and especially in this case at the beginning and when he arrived, | :52:42. | :52:51. | |
after within year, it takes a long time the recovery and until they are | :52:52. | :53:04. | |
ten years old, they cannot have relationships with other | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
chimpanzees. It is a long time. They can live for 70 years and all this | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
time in the sanctuary, it is a long time for their recovering. John, is | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
it possible to have an international trade in wild animals without | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
threatening their survival? Well, this convention that was negotiated | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
back in the 1970s distinguished between different animals and | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
plants. It said where an animal or plant is already threatened with | :53:31. | :53:34. | |
extinction, it should not enter into international commercial trade. It | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
is prohibited as is the case with all great apes. For some other | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
species, they say they are not yet threatened with extinction, but they | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
could become threatened with extinction if we don't strictly | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
regulate the trade and there is trade in many species, and | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
crocodiles and certain sharks, that's strictly regulated to make | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
sure they don't become threatened with extinction, but with respect to | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
great apes, there is to be no international commercial trade and | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
what you uncovered here was an example, a terrible example of where | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
people are seeking to succumb haven't the international rules | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
prohibiting that trade. I'm grateful for your time. Thank you very much | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
for coming on the programme. Thank you. | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
On Monday we're holding a live audience programme | :54:29. | :54:30. | |
We'll be looking at the problems it's facing and asking | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
If you work in the NHS in whatever role or you're a patient | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
with recent experience, we'd love you to be | :54:40. | :54:41. | |
E-mail [email protected] to let us know if you're interested and one | :54:42. | :54:50. | |
We'll be joined by our health editor Hugh Pym, leading politicians | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
We need you, staff and patients of the NHS. | :54:56. | :55:08. | |
A couple of primary schools in England have begun allowing | :55:09. | :55:11. | |
pupils to wear their slippers in class after research found it | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
The study from Bournemouth University found children who attend | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
lessons without shoes work harder and behave better. | :55:21. | :55:22. | |
West Thornton Primary Academy in London is one of those schools | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
Let's speak to Di Pumphrey, headteacher at West Thornton Primary | :55:26. | :55:33. | |
She's in charge of the shoeless zones in the school. | :55:34. | :55:41. | |
Hello both of you. Hello. Hello. Why does having their shoes off mean | :55:42. | :55:50. | |
children learn better? Well, I think the answer to that is that nobody | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
actually knows. It is not one magic silver bullet. What we have been | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
doing over the last four years is really rethinking our approach to | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
learning and teaching and redesigning our spaces so that we | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
actually get the best out of children and their attitudes to | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
learning. Shoeless learning is just one part of that approach that we've | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
taken and we have been doing it for four years. It came about through | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
children deciding for themselves that they have been given a lovely | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
new classroom, open-plan, flexible learning environment to learn in and | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
they wanted to respect it and feel comfortable in it and learn better | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
on the different furniture that we had in there and so they took the | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
decision after looking at the research to go shoeless. Let me | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
ask... We didn't enforce it with them. What difference have you seen, | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
in terms of the pupils performance? Well, we have seen a definite change | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
in behaviour, behaviour is much calmer in the learning zones. The | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
noise levels have gone down. Children feel more comfortable and | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
most definitely on the first year that we did the open learning zone | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
which including the shoeless learning, results went out on | :57:03. | :57:10. | |
year-on-year in terms of comparing the cohorts, and we are resilience | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
and working collaboratively and being independent really and that's | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
where they took charge of the learning in terms of choosing to go | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
shoeless. It was their idea. They had to present the data back to us | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
to prove you know that is not a gimmick there, has an impact on | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
learning. I think not all parents Di, not all parents are into it. | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
They think it might be scruffy or slobby? I've not had that brought | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
back to me from any of our parents. Our children decided that this was | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
the way that they were going to go. They presented it to their parents. | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
It was not enforced, but all of our children just choose to do that | :57:52. | :57:54. | |
because they feel more comfortable and more relaxed. You're not going | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
to learn well when you are sitting uncomfortably in a chair with shoes | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
on. You just need to relax and think about how you learn at home. Think | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
about how you read at home. Think about you sort of sit there with an | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
iPad on your lap perhaps, something else by your side and you | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
co-ordinate your learning to make it feel comfortable for you. We have | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
not had any negative response from our parents and we wouldn't expect | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
any because they can see it working with our children. Thank you, Di, | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
Thank you Aylament thank you for your comments on adoption this | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
morning. Yes, really grateful. Have a good day. | :58:34. | :58:34. |